Why do u hate, "Drag queens"?

[docrobbysherry]

I've been on this site for over 2 years. I've read posts, mostly accepting, some NOT, about almost every single type of CD. Including odd old ME! :eek:

Except for Drag Queens! Who seem to be universally reviled here!
( I KNOW I'm generalizing. But, I think u GET what I mean!) :brolleyes:

If I had started dressing in my 20's/30's, I MAY have explored being one! Getting up on stage, and strutting your hot fem stuff, appeals to me even NOW! :o

Other than jealousy, (MOST CDs would probably get laffed off stage, including ME), what do u have against drag queens?

I just don't get it! :straightface:

[SuzanneS]

I have a friend on Facebook that is a Dragqueen right here in Iowa! She's a year or so younger than me, but I used to date friends of hers when I was back in high school(early to mid 90's). She is absolutely b-e-a-utiful and funny! I have no problems with drag queens at all.

Suzanne

[Barbara Dugan]

Good question sherry . I just love drag queens and I think some people here based on some responses label them as just gay female impersonators that ridiculise women.

[AmberLynn]

Im new here,but have no problem's with drag queen's.

for 1.most of them are straight,at least one's i have seen

I have seen them listed even on wiki as "flamboyant female crossdresser's

they choose to dress in womans cloth's and still look like men imop. look at the budwiser drag queen's from there ladie's night's commercial "i loved that commercial by the way"

but i would like to know what people have aginst them,after all there human like you and me and have the same set of feeling's that can just as easily but hurt

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

In general I have no problems with Drag Queens, but I also don't relate to them the way I do other crossdressers because a lot of them only dress up for it as a performance art and that's it, which isn't the same in my opinion. More power to them though for doing what they want and some of them look so great that I sort of hate them in a fun way because they can pull off looks that I can't yet they only care to when onstage and take it for granted the rest of the time.

I think the issue some people have with them though is that Drag Queens tend to be the thing people think about when they hear "crossdresser" so when they think about us they picture the over the top, flamboyancy of the performance art, and don't take it seriously.

[Chloe' Buffington]

I like Drag Queens, they strive to be the best female performer they can be. As my signature line states, D.Q.I.T. stands for Drag Queen In Training. I have performed and competed in a couple of pagents too. I figure if you don't pass , like me, be flamboyant. :2c:

[CherylFlint]

A crossdresser and a drag queen are two seperate things, like a VW Bug and a Greyhound bus.
A drag queen is more of a mimic by exaggerating everything a woman does, from using way too much eyebrow pencil and lipstick, to wearing outfits that hurt the eyes. A drag queen has no hope, nor desire, to "pass".
A crossdresser, on the other hand, desires to "pass".
Maybe that's not the best definition, but I think it'll work.

[Bethany_Anne_Fae]

A long time ago i had a single bad experience with a drag queen. We were both in the same performance company and she apparantly didn't appreciate that I was getting the majority of the compliments and tips during the numbers... ergo... she tossed a wad of chewing gum into my wig back in the dressing dept while I was changing into drab..

I went through a period of reviling DQs because of that, but I grew up since and realized that lumping everyone into the same category because of ONE bad moment was a stupid thing to do.

Today I have lots of great DQ friends and we share makeup tips, perform together and enjoy what we have.

Glad I learned a lesson.

*hugs*

Zarabeth

[Karren H]

I love Drag Queens!!! They are so over the top and a real art form.....

[sherri52]

I don't know any DG's therefore have no real opinion. Maybe they overdo thier makeup, I don't know. I see only what I have read or seen on Television and therfore by opinion is without substance. I'll check back and try to understand them more by your posts.

[Samantha B L]

When I was a kid at about the age of 8 or 9 my only exposure to men who crossdressed were the female impersonators or "drag queens" who they would rarely but ocaisionally trot out on shows like Ed Sullivan and Red Skelton. It seemed almost mind boggling and exotic that somewhere on the coastal areas of this country,probably in New York or L.A.,certain men wore full female outfits,shaved their legs,did makeup,etc.and visa versa. Up until about 1967 there was almost NO public mention of ANYTHING LGBT or TG/TS/CD even on Television or in the newspapers. These drag queens were a break in the cold war era Victorianism and monotony.

[trannie T]

Some of my best friends are drag queens. . . .Anyone who can walk in platform heels has my respect.

[TSchapes]

I don't like to be confused with them is all. I love them very much, but every time I talk to a straight person about my cross-dressing they're like, "Oh yes, I saw this drag show while in Key West...".

And I'm glad my straight friends have a reference point and they are trying to relate to my CDing, but what we do is different. I think of what we strive for is more of a what I would call being a Gender Illusionist.

Also, I believe the drag queen personae comes from a place of anger. Where the gay person that does a drag queen show is saying, "Hey society, this is what I think of your rules, I'll do what I want!" This is just my amateur hour psychology evaluation. Most of the drag queens that I have met are gay and have no desire to be female all the time. There are exceptions.

So, no I don't hate them, just don't want to be confused as one of them. Like another friend of mine said to me when I showed them my picture of Tracy, "Hey, do you do shows?" No, but, maybe I should! LOL

-Tracy

[Nicole Erin]

It's just good ol discrimination within.

See, it is funny cause there is a lot of internal discrimination.
You know the whole thing like some TS think they are above CD's, or how the more passable TS think that a non-passing one is not a "real" TS, etc.

a DQ is not really part of the transgender spectrum as we know it.

Me, I am indifferent to DQ's. Once in a blue moon I don't mind watching a performance, but I don't really have any personal opinions of them either way.

[JulieK1980]

I have nothing against them whatsoever.... Like all people, some are good some are bad....

[kellycan27]

It's just good ol discrimination within.

See, it is funny cause there is a lot of internal discrimination.
You know the whole thing like some TS think they are above CD's, or how the more passable TS think that a non-passing one is not a "real" TS, etc.

a DQ is not really part of the transgender spectrum as we know it.

Me, I am indifferent to DQ's. Once in a blue moon I don't mind watching a performance, but I don't really have any personal opinions of them either way.

Why not you seem to have an opinion about everything else. :heehee:

[TorieGG]

I LOVE this and agree whole heartedly!


A crossdresser and a drag queen are two seperate things, like a VW Bug and a Greyhound bus.

Drag Queens are one of those categories of people that I don't HATE, I just wouldn't want one of my children to marry one. They could certainly bring them home for dinner though. I think a lot of people have a problem with ANY type of personality that is extreme and Drag Queens very often fit in that category. I have a feeling that's the reason so many people don't like them. :2c:

[Princess Chantal]

I have the highest respect for the Drag Queen and Drag King community here in Winnipeg.....
I praise them for what they do for charities, children, and the people that compose the LGBT* community.

as for this quote

A drag queen is more of a mimic by exaggerating everything a woman does, from using way too much eyebrow pencil and lipstick, to wearing outfits that hurt the eyes. A drag queen has no hope, nor desire, to "pass".
A crossdresser, on the other hand, desires to "pass".
Maybe that's not the best definition, but I think it'll work.
You have lots more to observe there, sweetie.........

[Maddie22]

I live in a community where the LGBT community is a bit limited, none of the less we have 4 gay bars, and all of them have drag shows. Some of the performers are just drag, some are living full time. Just because they perform at shows doesn't nessasarily mean that they are just "gay men doing a show in drag"

Now, the girls who do perform wheter living as a male or female, all go over the top. Dress in gowns, and clothing that most people would not wear to a night club even.


I actually did do an amateur show once....WHEW!!! it is nerve wrecking!!! Never again!!! And I'm not big on dressing up in the gowns and I can't wear haflt the stuff they can or choose to either!!

But they are fun to see!

[Kroma]

Project Runway Season 5 - Hedda Lettuce. Absolutely loved her.

Ru Paul ... not so much.

Could be a combination of fem and humor; idk really.

[Daphne Renee]

I dont hate Drag Queens at all. I know someone that works at a local club and does shows a few nights a week. The only hate I have is sort of a jealousy in that I wish I had that sort of talent.

[linnea]

I don't hate drag queens.

[SuzanneBender]

I have some close friends that are Drag Queens. How could someone hate them. Darling I find myself jealous of them. This simple little Donna Reid midwestern gal would love to throw on the huge hair and just go totally over the top in order to entertain, but it just isn't in me. That is what makes me so special and them so special. There are too few of us to define ourselves so narrowly. We need to just have one huge communal hug and realize we are all sisters. :hugs:

[Marcia Blue]

I love Drag Queens!!! They are so over the top and a real art form.....




I LOVE this and agree whole heartedly!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CherylFlint
A crossdresser and a drag queen are two seperate things, like a VW Bug and a Greyhound bus.


Drag Queens are one of those categories of people that I don't HATE, I just wouldn't want one of my children to marry one. They could certainly bring them home for dinner though. I think a lot of people have a problem with ANY type of personality that is extreme and Drag Queens very often fit in that category. I have a feeling that's the reason so many people don't like them. :2c:

I have to agree with both of these posts. One because I do agree with them, secondly because Beachmama, is my wife, and we do agree on alot of things.

[Chloe Renee]

I don't hate drag queens. I don't care for when they throw shade.
I love the over the top makeup, it is an art form.

My SO has done drag, I have many friends who do/done drag, I am planning on doing an amateur night, but just keep chickening out.

I have a bad theory that many who are bitter about drag queens. I think, these people feel Queens, who are a separate although related group, misrepresent CD's. And since the general public tends to lump both groups together.
This causes some CD's distress since Queens often have different "motivations" to dress.

I also am willing to bet CD's who have the most repulsion are also those who are the most concerned about keeping their secret from family and society.
Most likely my little theory, is just me talking out my rear.

[Sally2005]

Drag queen's are often associated with being gay and CDing has nothing to do with sexual orientation so I can see why there are not a lot of drag queen's and CDers on the same site. Drag is also more like acting than passing in real life so its apples and oranges in many ways. Drags performers are a lot of fun to watch. On youtube there are a lot of great drag makeup lessons than can be adapted to real life too!

[Starling]

Most "regular" crossdressers and transsexuals carry out female presentation without irony. When we venture forth we seek social acceptance in our chosen gender role.

What drag queens do is like burlesque--it's outrageous, bawdy and fun. It's the comic relief of crossdressing. I don't know whether more DQs are straight or gay, TG or pure masquerader, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't mind being stared at in the mall.

:heehee: Lallie

[Joanne f]

I enjoy seeing Drag queens, as i find them very amusing and entertaining , they are out to enjoy life in their own unique way and and i see nothing wrong with that , something we could all learn from .

[Kate Simmons]

Nothing wrong with showmanship. I rather enjoy it myself.:)

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

To amend my previous post, one thing I will say that one thing that does occasionally bug me about Drag Queens, and this isn't to say all of them but rather a specific type of them, is that some of them take the aspect of being a diva and think that means be a rude, nasty person. There's a comedian named John Mulaney who has a great joke about this where he says something like "You went through all the trouble to put on a nice dress and now you're going to be mean?" It ends with saying that their idea of what a woman is like is sort of like a guy and that "You could have stayed a guy if you were going to be an a**hole about it."

Now, I've had super friendly interactions with a lot of nice drag queens, but I've definitely left bars because others made me feel entirely unwelcome.

[terrinoble]

Hey, I like the drag queens myself. I couldn't do it myself because I couldn't adopt the "fierce diva attitude" that seems to be required of the job.

And when I was a kid I used to thrill when the old school impersonators like Charles Pierce or Jim Bailey used to appear on TV.

[sandra-leigh]

I have the highest respect for the Drag Queen and Drag King community here in Winnipeg.....
I praise them for what they do for charities, children, and the people that compose the LGBT* community.


Chantal is quite correct: the Drag Queen and Drag King communities here in Winnipeg work very hard for charities; I overheard two talking about a year ago, one mentioning that they were doing 7 completely different multi-hour events in 4 days; the other was doing 6 events in 7 days. And remember these people have to build "personalities" and often have to sew/build major parts of their costumes, and they have to design performances with choreography, and they have to rehearse, rehearse, rehearse.


That said, there seems to be a custom here in Winnipeg for the Drag Queen's especially to insult each other with "fat" jokes, and there is some standing joke about fried chicken that I just don't understand.

The insults leave me, an audience member, feeling uncomfortable... even if the drag community is all "in" on it, that part isn't funny and it isn't good art. Partly because sometimes the insults are intended seriously: any community large enough tends to develop factions that ask people to take sides (or which expel them for not clearly denouncing and disassociating themselves from the other faction.) I don't dislike drag performers: I dislike the rancor that they get dragged into (or voluntarily promote.)

[Lorileah]

I don't "hate" drag queens. By my definition (and that is all it is my way of categorizing things) they are really the bane of crossdressing. They are over the top over emphasized blatant parodies that are strictly entertainment. They are also usually only doing it for the attention, going back to their gay (yes they are usually gay) life afterward. (Maybe I should have put the Kevlar on before I said that). But I don't hate them, they are entertainers.

I dislike more the wannabe weekend commandos who have a warped self centric idea of how the rest of the community should fit into their ideal. The ones who think your hair should look just like theirs, you should always wear the 50 pound sequined ball gown and the blue eye shade. I hate the attitude. And yes girlfriend if I wanted that drunk, sleazy married closeted creep you have been trying to seduce, I could have him in a heartbeat. But I don't hate anyone

But that's just me

[Michelle-Leigh]

Why would I want to hate drag queens ? They are kindred spirits even though they are flashy and overdo the clothes, makeup and body English. Heck, some crossdressers overdo the clothes sometimes, myself included ! As a matter of fact, I redlined in a skirt the other night at the roller rink....

[StarrOfDelite]

Some of my best friends are drag queens. . . .Anyone who can walk in platform heels has my respect.

Agree one thousand percent wit this comment

[Deidra Cowen]

I have found over the years that at the clubs the Drag Queens really avoid us CDs and there is not much interaction.

I have known a very few nice ones but not many! That being said many a Sat Nite I am up at Le Buzz and enjoy watching the drag show.

[Carole Cross]

I have no problem with drag queens, we get a lot of them performing here because of the large gay community. most of them a very good at what they do.

[NathalieX66]

Who hates drag queens? Really?


The only thing that irks me is that how the general populace, especially the media refers to going en femme as in drag.

[Toni_Lynn]

I do not hate drag queens. I don't hate anyone. I DO hate some activities of some people whether they be doctors, politicians, priests/ rabbis/ ministers/ imans/ non-believers, royals, regular folk, gay/ straight/ bi, or drag queens!

But the topic at hand is drag queens, and the activities I hate there are specifically the over the top/ exaggerated makeup and actions of some -- NOT ALL. In another post in another thread, I made reference to female impersonator Jim Bailey. For those who don't know:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bailey_%28entertainer%29

He is fantastic. He is/ was loved by the women that he impersonates, i.e. Carol Channing, Liza Minelli, Judy Garland, etc. There is nothing creepy about what he does. He brings dignity, talent, and art to female impersonation.

BUT -- look at the extreme. I liken it as follows, so I ask you to put yourself in this space:

You are black person. You read the non-fiction book Black like Me by John Howard Griffin or see the film of it starring James Whitmore. (For the uninformed, Griffin was white and darkened his skin to be in disguise as a black man in the racially segregated and troubled Southern USA of the 1950s.). You see and admire his willingness to experience prejudice first hand with the goal to change it.

Then someone shows you a film from the 1930 or 1940s of white performers doing black-face. You see the actor portray your race as going around saying 'yassah yasah,youse right' etc. You see your race being portrayed as lazy or a schemer or oversexed. You'd be creeped out.

I now ask you to substitute all you know about drag queens and female impersonators into the above portrayals, and instead of being black you are a GG. How would you as a GG like being portrayed as a parody of who you are.

Then expand this to those of us who wish to quietly dress in women's clothes and lead a perfect ordinary life. Consider the fact that it hurts to be lampooned and to see the things that we love, women and femininity, satirised. Consider those of us who where humiliated by school mates and parents because we crossdressed, because those uninformed individuals associated us with the extreme element.

Yes, drag queens do much for the AIDS fund raising, but is it right for those as the members of the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence in San Francisco to lampoon the clerics of the Catholic faith. They'd never do their 'theatre' in burqas or wearing the hijab or niqab as Moslem women do - or dress as the women religious of other faiths.

Again -- its not hate of the person -- but a hate of the activities of some.

Huggles

Toni-Lynn

[Rebecca Jayne]

Especially their eyr makeup.

I hate loud and proud.
I can't stand their fake eyelahes
In you face colors.. YECH

They are so retowood looking make the rest of us look like clowns.

[Karren H]

Nothing wrong with showmanship. I rather enjoy it myself.:)

Showomanship? On of these days I am going to master the english language.... or is that mistress the english language? :D

[Faith_G]

Especially their eyr makeup.

I hate loud and proud.
I can't stand their fake eyelahes
In you face colors.. YECH

They are so retowood looking make the rest of us look like clowns.Well, somebody looks like a clown anyway. :straightface:

Count me among the many who have no problem with drag queens. It's not my thing, but who am I to say somebody shouldn't wear a dress and makeup? :D

[docrobbysherry]

I don't "hate" drag queens.
And yes girlfriend if I wanted that drunk, sleazy married closeted creep you have been trying to seduce, I could have him in a heartbeat. But I don't hate anyone
But that's just me

Uh, OK Lorileah, but I'm divorced!:brolleyes:


Showomanship? On of these days I am going to master the english language.... or is that mistress the english language? :D

Ouch! My side hurts!:heehee:
I MUST remember to read Karen's posts BEFORE my glass of wine!:drink:

[Frédérique]

If I had started dressing in my 20's/30's, I MAY have explored being one! Getting up on stage, and strutting your hot fem stuff, appeals to me even NOW!
Other than jealousy, (MOST CDs would probably get laffed off stage, including ME), what do u have against drag queens? I just don't get it!

I don’t hate drag queens, I just avoid them like the plague. The types of women most drag queens try to emulate are not the types I find to be interesting – it’s as simple as that. I suppose it’s a way to make a living, but drag is an exaggerated form of crossdressing that has nothing to do with us highly closeted type’s desire to pass or at least enjoy our feminine “space.”

Trying to pass may be the key phrase here, at least in regards to the OP. The last thing I would want to do is cloak myself in some caricature of femininity, then parade before people shouting (in a visual sense) “LOOK AT ME!” hoping to elicit laughter or, at the very least, a reaction that would feed my twisted ego. I’ll tell you, if I had “fem stuff” to wiggle, I certainly wouldn’t wiggle it for attention…:hmph:

Like a lot of others here, I take this crossdressing business very seriously – I love humor, but dressing in drag for laughs is something best left to professional comedians. Tell me this – how come there isn’t a “Drag Queens” section on this forum? Doesn’t that speak volumes about its “place” among true crossdressing? Well? :waiting:

[AllieSummers]

I think it is important for everyone to understand what a "Drag Queen" really is. A drag queen is a gay man that dresses, usually in a very flamboyant way, and does shows (mostly comedy) that make fun of women, men that dress as women and straight people in general.

Most of them do not dress other than to perform.

Being a "Drag Queen" in a true sense of the word is a profession. They strictly do it for money. They don't do it for any emotional reasons. They don't plan on living as women or transitioning.

There are some transsexuals that do "Drag Shows". But they aren't really "Drag Queens". They usually just do dance routines and lip sync songs.

These are just generalizations of course because just like there are all flavors of TGs there are all flavors of Drag Queens.

I have CD friends that just can't stand Drag Shows because they think that they make fun of people that transition or crossdress.

I don't see it. I love Drag Queens, Drag Shows, gay poeple of all types (never met a mean gay guy, or girl for that matter, in my entire life). If you are a GG, TG, CD or whatever and you take offense to someone making fun of you then you need to lighten up a little. I can give you a dozen things about me, besides the obvious, that you could make fun of. I think we all need to laugh at ourselves a little.

I plan to do some performances as soon as my travel schedule slows down a little. I love to dance, show off and stuff so I am really looking forward to it. I have been called up on stage from the crowd on more than one occasion at the Rose Room in Dallas. I think it is really exciting to be up on stage with those bright lights on you. I guess I have a little exhibitionist in me. :)

Now, you don't have to love or prefer them, just like some people prefer vanilla instead of chocolate ice cream, but to say you hate someone because they wear exaggerated makeup is just outright silly. We all need to take a step back and realize that if we want to be accepted by everyone for who you are, we need to accept everyone for who they are.

Kisses,

Allie

P.S. THIS IS MY 200TH POST!!!! WOO HOO!!!! ;-)

[Barbara Dugan]

I still love them:hugs:

[Princess Chantal]

From what I've read from the posting and the reactions of the out of town transgendered visitors, I am getting the picture that the Drag performers here in Winnipeg are quite a rare sight. We've had many of the visitors astonished by the drag queens looks, commenting how "passable" and attractive they look. 5 of Masquerade's longtime members ( Masquerade being the local crossdressing social group) are a part of the drag scene. One of them has been the president for several years of the group who is a major player of the drag community and she is in the process of transitioning. Another one was not only a past president, but was a co-founder of the Masquerade group and she has on her way to becoming a big presence on the drag scene. Oh I should mention that she is also in the process of transitioning.
The local drag community, just like Masquerade has been an outlet for closeted crossdressers and transgenders to take a step out the door. Many of the queens that I have had long chats with mentioned that they first started dressing in their youth and do some type of crossdressing away from the stage/club.
As for trying to "pass", ever been in the dressing room with a drag queen while she is fussing over her make up and looks? I've seen one that threw a major hissy fit over the fact that at one angle her contouring was not feminine enough. Many of the tricks to hide our masculinity was founded by a drag queen. Whether it being make up or body shaping, you could thank the drag queens. Yes their make up, mannerisms and clothing are most often quite exagerated, but so are most of the females in the real world that are expecting to be in the spotlight and or is playing a character.

[Kate Simmons]

Showomanship? On of these days I am going to master the english language.... or is that mistress the english language? :DNot a problem Dear. Your fortitude more than makes up for that.:battingeyelashes::)

[suchacutie]

Hate Drag Queens? Heavens no.

But, maybe that isn't the point of the discussion. Granted that I've not read every word written on this site, but the only negative I've read here about Drag Queens are laments about the fact that the "public" (uneducated public?) generally thinks "Drag Queen" when any topic about trangenderism is mentioned. Thus, the issue could become the need to educate the public with the perception that this is harder because of the pervasive feeling that we are all drag queens with certain sexual preferences and perversities.

I never understood this general feeling until I observed very good friends of mine, people who I thought were quite liberal and open minded, literally sneer at two drag queens who were clearly headed for a performance. This was New Orleans, for heaven's sake, and I was shocked at the negative response from these two people who I thought I knew really well. I even mentioned that I wondered where the show was in which they were performing but that was just ignored. At that moment the world suddenly seemed a lot farther away from being educated about the wide variations of transgenderism.

Regardless, this public perception should never be a source of hate, especially from us who should know better!!!

With incredible respect to the artistry of Drag Queens,

tina

[Laura_Stephens]

I only hate drag queens if they work for the IRS. :tongueout:

[Veronica75]

It never ceases to amaze me how such a significant segment of a population like CDs, who face discrimination, misunderstanding, prejudice, and generalized dislike-- can turn around and dish the same stuff at other people. And just as remarkable, for a population that is so set apart from the norm, is the running feeling with some people here that the only "right" way to be a crossdresser is their way. Tells you a lot about people in general.

For those who feel DQs are "not part of the CD spectrum" or "as different as a VW and a Greyhound Bus", you might want to reconsider-- VWs and buses, after all, are both motor vehicles and roll on four wheels. Where does the "CD spectrum" start and stop? Are underdressers part of it? Fetish crossdressers? Do you have to be full time to be a true CD? What about closeted girls?

Bottom line, crossdressing takes on a lot of different forms for a lot of different reasons for a lot of different people. I don't agree with them all, or even understand them all. But to dismiss them or denigrate them because they are beyond my comprehension or outside of my tastes is the very definition of bigotry. I'd expect better here.

[msginaadoll]

I love drag queens! I think they are beautiful and have got some great makeup tips from them. Most have been sweethearts, the ones Ive met. Also they have done a lot for the gay community at large if you know your history. I am not gay, but appreciate all those who have stood on the frontlines to bring acceptance to minorities. Also thanks to Rupaul I became familiar with MAC products. If someone asks me if IM a drag queen my answer, Hon, I can only aspire to being a drag princess!

[AllieSummers]

I think Tina is spot on.

The public perception is the key here. The movies that are out are mostly about Drag Queens. I don't know of any movies that really present cross dressers or even transsexuals in the proper perspective.

The public thinks that we are all gay, it is all about sex or being promiscuous, all of us wear "over-the-top" makeup, wigs, clothing, etc.

Now from one stand point I can see where someone that isn't any of these things would dislike someone that promoted these things and perpetuated the stereotype that we are all like that.

On the other hand, we need the gay community because they are the only ones with the balls (excuse the pun) to get out and be open and fight for their cause. They are actually fighting for us in a round about way. If they (gays, lesbians, Drag Queens) can gain acceptance then the public will have no problem accepting a toned down version...straight, mild-mannered, conservative, passable, transgendered individuals.

Kisses,

Allie

[Sarah Doepner]

They just get so upset with me when I go out and create the impression that Drag Preformers occasionally attempt to dress in normal women's clothing.

Nah, I don't have anything against Drag, I stand in awe at their moxie and skills. What bothers me is the way they hog the media spot light with all those sparkles and platform shoes. It really attracts attention and the illusion results in an impression that they are typical of crossdressing. Those who want to foster understanding of crossdressing have so many stereotypes to overcome before honest discourse can begin. This is one of them. However, if like me, you are starting to believe that it doesn't matter if the general public understands or not, Drag is great.

I just want to find out where they buy bulk blue eyeshadow.

[Toni_Lynn]

It never ceases to amaze me how such a significant segment of a population like CDs, who face discrimination, misunderstanding, prejudice, and generalized dislike-- can turn around and dish the same stuff at other people. And just as remarkable, for a population that is so set apart from the norm, is the running feeling with some people here that the only "right" way to be a crossdresser is their way. Tells you a lot about people in general.

Veronica -- I straddle the fence of agreeing and disagreeing with what you are saying. Yes, it is wrong, very wrong, to have a hate or bigotry against any ally in the CD spectrum. But, it is not wrong to not like what they do.

Let me frame that this way. As many know from my other posts, I am a proud and obedient Roman Catholic. I love and admire priests and nuns. Yet some, I think its 10% +/-, have engaged in horrific and wicked sexual practices against children. I abhor this activity. Does me make me hate all priests or nuns? No. Yet, some people paint all Catholic religious this way. What they did is so incredibly wrong, but it doesn't change the underlying truths (for Christians) of what the Church teaches.

So, my point being, that the activities of some drag queens do not sit well with me. Granted they are not on the scale of sexual abuse of children, but nonetheless, I don't like the activities. Those activities don't invalidate the struggle that we all on the gender spectrum go through for acceptance. However, the uninformed public will paint all of us with the same type of broad brush that they use to paint all priest and nuns with as above. Likewise, the activities of the extreme among drag queens does not give me a right to hate drag queens in total. And -- the same logic means that I can not hate all non-CD/TG people because some among them, hate us!

Huggles

Toni-Lynn

PS - forgive me if am sound argumentative like a certain person who is not among us any more. Such is not my intent.

[Vieja]

I don't hate anybody. Weell maybe thin people who can eat anything they like and never gain an ounce

Vieja

[Lorileah]

You make a good point Tina. What is out there in the world and is plainly visible tends to be the image most people have. It has been that way (and remains that way) for many ethnic, religious and "lifestyle" people. So once again:sb: the only way to fight this ignorance is to be out and about. The best thing that could happen for TG's would be for a person in a visible respected position to "come out" and not use it as a ploy for publicity (like a certain fighter recently :brolleyes:). *drags :sb: back in the corner*

[sandra-leigh]

So, my point being, that the activities of some drag queens do not sit well with me. Granted they are not on the scale of sexual abuse of children, but nonetheless, I don't like the activities.

... leading you to slur them with "guilt by association" of a strongly repulsive group together with a weak disassociation from that group so that you can claim that you didn't really slur them. :lame: That's a well-known rhetorical technique often used in politics, and it works because humans react emotionally "as we go along" and don't come down from that emotion and experience a strong counter-emotion immediately upon hearing a contrary fact (especially a weakly put one.) Not cool :(


Like Veronica said, I don't think we ought to be putting anyone down over their manner of presentation.

It would be different if the drag queens were deliberately mocking cross-dressers just for being ourselves (keeping in mind that mockery and satire can be helpful to the extent that it has something to teach us.) Possibly some drag queens do that in other places, but I have never experienced it here in Winnipeg; on the contrary, the drag queens here are amongst the people who come over and encourage me.

[Toni_Lynn]

... leading you to slur them with "guilt by association" of a strongly repulsive group together with a weak disassociation from that group so that you can claim that you didn't really slur them.

I think you are reading a bit into what I wrote, for surely had I not written what I wrote, I could just as easily be accused of implying something by similar reading between the lines.

In any event, I in no way shape or form wish to associate one sub-group of a larger group who do activities that I do not like with another. I am simply saying that within any group there are those whose activities will be looked upon with disdain by someone, and this is no reason to hate the entire group as a whole.

I'll extend it again in a purely Canadian context. I don't hate, and in fact one shouldn't hate, francophone Quebecois or members of the Bloc or PQ, because of the actions of the FLQ, or even the actions of the Bloc or PQ who wish to separate from the nation.

I am sorry if you think I meant otherwise by my thoughts or statements.

Huggles

Toni-Lynn

[Taylor186]

It never ceases to amaze me how such a significant segment of a population like CDs, who face discrimination, misunderstanding, prejudice, and generalized dislike-- can turn around and dish the same stuff at other people. And just as remarkable, for a population that is so set apart from the norm, is the running feeling with some people here that the only "right" way to be a crossdresser is their way. Tells you a lot about people in general.

For those who feel DQs are "not part of the CD spectrum" or "as different as a VW and a Greyhound Bus", you might want to reconsider-- VWs and buses, after all, are both motor vehicles and roll on four wheels. Where does the "CD spectrum" start and stop? Are underdressers part of it? Fetish crossdressers? Do you have to be full time to be a true CD? What about closeted girls?

Bottom line, crossdressing takes on a lot of different forms for a lot of different reasons for a lot of different people. I don't agree with them all, or even understand them all. But to dismiss them or denigrate them because they are beyond my comprehension or outside of my tastes is the very definition of bigotry. I'd expect better here.

YES! could not have said it better.

[carolinoakland]

It's and artform, like Kabuki or Noh in Japan. It's entertainment, and as soon as the performance is over they don't stay en femme, it's a costume, and one that like Victoria pointed out that the distinctions are lost on the general public, and yep, that's why we all get lumped together, most straights just don't get it, so don't hate the DQ's and DK's. We are all part of the "Gender Gifted." Can't we all just get along? Carol.

[Veronica75]

Veronica -- I straddle the fence of agreeing and disagreeing with what you are saying. Yes, it is wrong, very wrong, to have a hate or bigotry against any ally in the CD spectrum. But, it is not wrong to not like what they do.

Let me frame that this way. As many know from my other posts, I am a proud and obedient Roman Catholic. I love and admire priests and nuns. Yet some, I think its 10% +/-, have engaged in horrific and wicked sexual practices against children. I abhor this activity. Does me make me hate all priests or nuns? No. Yet, some people paint all Catholic religious this way. What they did is so incredibly wrong, but it doesn't change the underlying truths (for Christians) of what the Church teaches.

So, my point being, that the activities of some drag queens do not sit well with me. Granted they are not on the scale of sexual abuse of children, but nonetheless, I don't like the activities. Those activities don't invalidate the struggle that we all on the gender spectrum go through for acceptance. However, the uninformed public will paint all of us with the same type of broad brush that they use to paint all priest and nuns with as above. Likewise, the activities of the extreme among drag queens does not give me a right to hate drag queens in total. And -- the same logic means that I can not hate all non-CD/TG people because some among them, hate us!

Huggles

Toni-Lynn

PS - forgive me if am sound argumentative like a certain person who is not among us any more. Such is not my intent.

Of course, everyone has opinions on things, likes and dislikes. What bothers me is people who say this or that is "wrong", or think men who wear women's clothing for different reasons than they wear women's clothing somehow don't qualify as CDs, or who make sweeping generalizations about a particular group of people. You have stated your bad experiences with certain DQs, and your reasons for disagreeing with them. That's not bigotry, and your position is not the kind of thing I'm talking about.

As for drag queens, I've met some horrid DQs (I went out dressed in NYC, after all) but also some very kind and supportive ones, sometimes incredibly so. Some of them act in ways that might cast a poor light on CDs in general, but the same could be said for many "normal" CDs.

It's just sad to see that being a member of a group that suffers terribly under prejudice and broad generalizations about their lifestyle doesn't stop certain folks from engaging in the same narrowmindedness. Like I said, less a statement on crossdressers than on human frailty in general.

[sometimes_miss]

What I 'hate' is having other people apply incorrect assumptions upon me based on their own lives. In particular, that they feel I am either gay or just in denial of it, and that eventually they think I will just have some sort of an epiphany or something and join their ranks.

I don't 'hate' drag queens. However, I usually don't appreciate the results of their well over the top and 'in your face' actions, which the world interprets (truthfully or not) as the 'I'm here and I'm queer get used to it' sort of thing, which makes most of the world think that any guy who wears woman's clothing is gay, and makes it harder for the rest of us.
I know they do it simply to reinforce their own opinion of themselves, their self esteem being elevated by feeling that there are more people like themselves out there, but it does get tiring having to explain myself over and over and over and over and over.
I have no problem with gay people. I have no problem with straight people. I have no problem with bi people. And it pisses me off when so many of them seem to have a problem with accepting what I tell them I am.