Why do men get such a bad rap!

[DaphneGrey]

I was wondering why so many on this forum come down so hard on men who don't crossdress! Seriously people some adjectives that get used frequently. Drab,Boring,Hairy,Greasy,BeerSwilling,dirty, etc etc. You know what I am talking about :Angry3:

Men like everyone else come in all shapes and sizes. Every man who is not TG or a crossdresser is not an unrefined, clueless, beer swilling, couch potato, with no sense of style!
As a matter of fact no man I spend time with is any of those things!



I understand the need to feel good about yourself but do you need to stereotype half the population to do it.

[CherylFlint]

It's not that men get such a bad rap, it's those men who get pissed-off when they got fooled. Most guys are okay and, I suspect, a good number of them wish they had the balls that we do to pull it off, or at least to try and "pass".
It really does take a certain amount of nerve and being brave to go out into the world dressed as a women, it certainly isn't for the faint of heart, that's for sure. It is, actually, an exciting adventure that I enjoy each and every time I go out dressed.
The trick is to stay safe. Be aware of your surroundings, I mean, you wouldn't go to a 7-11 at 10 pm on a Saturday night dressed, but you might when as a drab. But you know, I find myself being more aware of my surroundings ALL of the time since I've started going out dressed.

[DaphneGrey]

It's not that men get such a bad rap, it's those men who get pissed-off when they got fooled. Most guys are okay and, I suspect, a good number of them wish they had the balls that we do to pull it off, or at least to try and "pass".
It really does take a certain amount of nerve and being brave to go out into the world dressed as a women, it certainly isn't for the faint of heart, that's for sure. It is, actually, an exciting adventure that I enjoy each and every time I go out dressed.
The trick is to stay safe. Be aware of your surroundings, I mean, you wouldn't go to a 7-11 at 10 pm on a Saturday night dressed, but you might when as a drab. But you know, I find myself being more aware of my surroundings ALL of the time since I've started going out dressed.

It is that men get a bad rap! On this forum. Did you bother to read to my post it is about crossdressers and their perceptions about men who don't crossdress!

I hate to be so blunt but your living in a fantasy land, If you think Non crossdressing men are jealous of your nerve or courage or whatever label you want to use. A few might appreciate it. But give me a break, they are not jealous.

I am glad you get out that is wonderful, but that is not what this thread is about.

[Karren H]

If you ask my wife its because were stupid!! But then again maybe that's just me she's talking about.. Sigh...

[DaphneGrey]

If you ask my wife its because were stupid!! But then again maybe that's just me she's talking about.. Sigh...

Mine thinks I am silly and have no business packing a suitcase!

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

I totally agree with you, there's no reason for us to bash others to elevate ourselves. the only thing I'll say is some people might do the "drab = boring" thing more in regards to how they feel about their own wardrobe, and why they prefer to dress.

[docrobbysherry]

Drab,Boring,Hairy,Greasy,BeerSwilling,dirty, etc etc. You know what I am talking about :Angry3:

Were u, (sneeze), talking about me again?:yawn:

[Kate Simmons]

Funny, even as Victoria, Ericka, Salandra, Arianna and now Denise I've been pretty much guilty at one time or another of all the things you listed. Ericka especially was an in your face bimbo and definately no lady, but then again who says women always have to be? In any case I combine the best(and worst) of both modes when being both, either or neither and find it quite refresehing when people of either gender act like real people.:)

[Andy66]

I, for one, like men - many (but not all) different types. There are boorish men out there, as there are boorish women and even a few boorish crossdressers. *gasp!* :eek:
If you got the impression that I over-generalize, you must not have been reading carefully.

I agree, some people like to bring other people down to make themselves feel better. It's easier than improving yourself to make yourself feel better. And non-crossdressers just being jealous isn't necessarily correct.

[Lorileah]

maybe because they often deserve it? I know a guy (ok me) who can be selfish, insensitive, crude, boorish, mean, nasty oh and did I say self centered and a pig when it comes to women?

I try not to be, but dammit, it happens.

When he isn't all the above he can be sweet, kind, loving, emotional, caring, helpful (just add all the boy scouts stuff here), witty, and like Barry White says "had lovers and some say I'm damn good."

There was a world famous brain surgeon who did brain transplants. He offered men's brains for $100k and womens brains for $25k (don't give up on this quite yet). When asked about the disparity he said "the male brain has never been used." Guess the other male "brain" would probably be on closeout.

And I don't think we just dis the non-dressers....we are equal oppurtunity

[Sarah_GG]

Men like everyone else come in all shapes and sizes. Every man who is not TG or a crossdresser is not an unrefined, clueless, beer swilling, couch potato, with no sense of style!

Erm... well... erm... because they are!


As a matter of fact no man I spend time with is any of those things!


Then you need to start socialising outside the TG community! :devil:

[sherri]

Based on my experiences with men since I joined the, well, the CD dating pool, much of the bad rep is well-deserved. I know it's definitely been a revelation for me. Maybe the interaction has been a little skewed in that most of the guys I've met, online and in person, don't really grasp the fact that they're dealing with a genuinely feminine person. Deep down, they think of us as guys in skirts and consequently may not deal with us with the same finesse as they would a GG. But I swear, even on their best behavior, most men need to be sent to finishing school or something. :) There are exceptions, absolutely, but they are rare and definitely serve to prove the rule.

I think the traits that bother me the most are dishonesty and a general disregard, either intentional or unconscious, for the sensibilities and priorities of the gurls they're chasing. And both are way more common than any of us might be willing to admit.

The good news is this has really taught me a lot and forever impacted the way I perceive and interact with women. Not to mention that I now understand far better their patient efforts all these years to whip us into shape. :D

PS -- Ever noticed how warily GGs regard a guy who's making a pass at them? It's cuz they're wondering, is this guy different, or just another typical caveman? :) It cracks me up whenever I see a show or magazine article about teaching guys how to score with girls, like it's some big mystery or something. Clue: Be nice, be honest and be interest(ed/ing).

[windycissy]

I personally prefer men who aren't into crossdressing, on a date I mean...some of the guys I've gone out with are wannabe crossdressers who just want to get into my pants, literally!

[Presh GG]

Hi Daphne,
I've noticed the same thing for years. Can we expand on this thread ,looking deep, to ask ourselves why ALL men [not just CDs ] do this about other men?
I don't see this in genetic women past high-school age. Am I not looking ? Don't think so.

Thanks for the topic, It's a good one.

peace,

spring gg

[Aska]

In defence of all men no matter what we are raised to see other men that way. Women do the same thing but use words like **** dirty etc. Etc. I see men as aborant swine that have nothing better to do than watch football or nascar, but that is my view as I was raised by two women. I also see that there was more beutiful people in the world back in the 40s and 50s because people were raised correctly. So to sum it up we are all guilty of being bias to either men or women.

[Stitch]

I don't understand why Men get a bad rep either. If you don't like a particular man because of his tastes in sport, or thing he is a idiot than why associate with him in the first place? I know a lot of bad pieces of work who are women, so I refuse to have them in my life. Don't tar them all with the same brush just because you dislike a few. I imagine CDers as a whole would hate to be judged by the behaviour of a few particular worst case scenarios.

Most of my friends are Male, and they are the kindest most generous people I know. Sure they have off the wall senses of humour and take shots at each other, but then so do I. I giving the people I care about a good tease or ribbing. It's just another way of showing affection. So men don't think in the same way as women, or have different pastimes. It doesn't make them terrible people.

[Frédérique]

Men like everyone else come in all shapes and sizes. Every man who is not TG or a crossdresser is not an unrefined, clueless, beer swilling, couch potato, with no sense of style!
As a matter of fact no man I spend time with is any of those things!

Well, I like the "men"………………………………HERE! :)

I know all men are not alike, but it’s useful to have something to…inspire…one to be different. How can I be who I am if there aren’t men who repulse me? I mean, what is this all about if I can’t bounce off of something and fly in the other direction, away from the expected norm and behavior? The worst thing a woman could say to me is “You’re a typical male,” so I don’t give one a chance to say it (and they don’t). Quite naturally, I have to look at male “targets” and say “I will not be like him” – it’s like chanting a mantra, and it helps me to stay focused.

In my case it’s more about dress and its accompanying feelings, anyway – if there were no “typical males” out there (you know, the ones the media glorify), I would have nothing to pull away from and seek an opposite lifestyle. I really don’t care that men (for the most part) dismiss the idea of crossdressing – this is a special niche for the chosen few, and I’m happy to be one of them…

[DaphneGrey]

Erm... well... erm... because they are!



Then you need to start socialising outside the TG community! :devil:

Ha Ha very cute. But seriously I just don't see it in the men I share my life with. The truth is the of the few trans friends I have two are genderqueer FTMs. I don't really socialize within the community. I have tried please dont missunderstand. there are many posts of mine that deal with that. It makes me a little sad thats all. I have made over this year more than a few friends and a couple of them I would hope life long friends. Men and women both and all though it takes men a little longer to come around they treat me with respect.

As far as the other generilzations , men are swine and so forth. I think are just a charature of what pop culture expects men to behave like. We have gone from father knows best to father knows nothing. I think those types of generalizations are just as reprehensable as the everything that sums up beeing feminine is shopping shoes and make up. niether view is correct in my opinion.

I know a lot of men that I work with work hard to support their families and want the best of everything for the people they love! Not swine at all.

And quite frankly when presenting as Daphne I am rather fond of some respectful attention of a mans man. Not that I would lead anyone on. But by all means offer your hand to help me out of a car or pull out my chair. My heart always skips a beat.

Just my two cents!

[Tamara Croft]

I hate to be so blunt but your living in a fantasy land, If you think Non crossdressing men are jealous of your nerve or courage or whatever label you want to useUhm, you started this thread about members giving men a hard time, and just what are you doing with this quote? there really is no reason to be that rude, when all she was doing was answering your question.

[Stephenie S]

It's not that all men are boorish louts with nothing better to do than burp, fart, and ask for more beer while they watch TV. It's just that those are the ones who get noticed. They stand out, I think. We remember them because we are so repelled by this behavior.

And then there is that extremely dangerous mix of testosterone and alcohol. Too much of either when taken together is not just offensive, it's downright lethal.

I Know there are good men out there. Actually I know a few, really nice, caring, considerate, friendly men. Well, I can think of at least ONE . . . . Yes, at least one.

But there are an awful lot of untrustworthy dogs out there too, who will drop their pants at the slightest suggestion. And then lie their heads off to cover it up.

Just look at ther number of guys right here who are lying to their SO about their activities in the closet.

So I think it's just that we notice bad behavior more than we notice good behavior. Is that a normal human reaction? It was a woman who brought down that lunatic on the army base in Texas. And a wounded one at that.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[Lorileah]

And then there is that extremely dangerous mix of testosterone and alcohol. Too much of either when taken together is not just offensive, it's downright lethal.



which in turn gets back to the burping and..uh...gas :heehee:

[Stephenie S]

Yes dear, LOL

[kellycan27]

Erm... well... erm... because they are!



Then you need to start socialising outside the TG community! :devil:

I totally socialize outside of the TG community and I don't find men to be that way at all, well the majority of them. There are exceptions to everything. Maybe being that the majority of cder's are str8 and have no desire or actual interaction with men on a personal level... they only have themselves to judge how men are? :heehee: The pot calling the kettle black? Something vaguely familiar about this lumping of men together.. Oh I remember now. Isn't one of the pet peeves of cross dressers......The feeling that society lumps them all together under one label? Shame on you!

Kel

[sherri52]

Unfortunately some men are all or some of those things. Then again so are some women. I never speek badly about someone until I know them. The only exception I have is a general one and that is that mens clothing I call drab. There are no bright colors or designs in the overall package. Maybe a bright colored shirt. This is not against any man, rather it is a play on the better taste of women.

[Barbara Dugan]

I have many male friends none of them are like that.

[Rebecca Jayne]

I am all of these things and more and PROUD of it

BTW I like being a man

Then again I like being a woman

[DaphneGrey]

Hi Daphne,
I've noticed the same thing for years. Can we expand on this thread ,looking deep, to ask ourselves why ALL men [not just CDs ] do this about other men?
I don't see this in genetic women past high-school age. Am I not looking ? Don't think so.

Thanks for the topic, It's a good one.

peace,

spring gg

Sure we could that is probably a good direction for this thread. It is true when men are together alone (not all men) I have noticed they can be quite caddy. That is just my observation at work any way. Perhaps it has something to do with masculine security or lack there of. What ever the reason in groups of men there is always one or two who like to spread rumors, or point out someone's flaws.

As far as the burping scratching stereotype goes. I think it has a lot to do with pop culture. It has been fashionable to portray men as either slovenly, self centered, stupid, womanizing. The Simpsons, The family Guy, Men behaving badly, The man show, Howard Stern etc. I know there are people who fit with these descriptions but in reality (the reality of my own personal experience) they are the exception not the rule.

Very often as read some of the anti male statements on this site I think perhaps it is just an echo of the pop culture male stereotype. I have mentioned the same thing in other posts about many crossdressers having a somewhat characaturish Idea of how women act and think. The whole prissy walk/girly talk all women do is lust after shoes and clothes and gab about well you get the idea.


There are some good examples too, one Character comes to mind Gibbs from NCIS. rugged, smart, tough, loyal, respectful, honest. I know men who have many if not all of those qualities. Sure they have faults too but don't we all?

I am not hating any one here and if anything I write is offensive or stings in any way I really am sorry! I often post questions such as these because I do spend a good deal of my time socializing and interacting with non gender variant people. I get asked a lot of questions and as a result do a lot of soul searching. On more than a couple of occasions when my non TG friends have strayed into the gender variant world through links on my FB page or what ever, have asked "why do crossdressers do this" So thats why I start these types of threads.

[JOJO44]

maybe because they often deserve it? I know a guy (ok me) who can be selfish, insensitive, crude, boorish, mean, nasty oh and did I say self centered and a pig when it comes to women?

I try not to be, but dammit, it happens.

When he isn't all the above he can be sweet, kind, loving, emotional, caring, helpful (just add all the boy scouts stuff here), witty, and like Barry White says "had lovers and some say I'm damn good."

There was a world famous brain surgeon who did brain transplants. He offered men's brains for $100k and womens brains for $25k (don't give up on this quite yet). When asked about the disparity he said "the male brain has never been used." Guess the other male "brain" would probably be on closeout.

And I don't think we just dis the non-dressers....we are equal oppurtunity



There was a world famous brain surgeon who did brain transplants. He offered men's brains at $100k per pound and womens brains at $25k a pound (don't give up on this quite yet). When asked about the disparity he said "do you know how many men it takes to get a pound of brains?"

Dissing anyone is just so not cool, but if we are honest, we will admit that many, if not most, of us do it at one time or another.

Remember, "judge not that ye be not judged".

:love: & :hugs:

Jo

[sherri]

As far as the burping scratching stereotype goes. I think it has a lot to do with pop culture. It has been fashionable to portray men as either slovenly, self centered, stupid, womanizing.I'll absolutely grant you this point. It's especially prevalent in TV commercials and sitcoms. To me, it's getting offensive -- heck, it's been offensive for a long time -- and I have to think that if the tables were turned, the backlash from women would put a stop to it right quick. Still, there is a kernel of truth behind the parody -- in the natural order of things, women are meant, I believe, to exert a refining influence on men.


I have mentioned the same thing in other posts about many crossdressers having a somewhat characaturish Idea of how women act and think. The whole prissy walk/girly talk all women do is lust after shoes and clothes and gab about well you get the idea. Another valid point, but you know, I sometimes think some people sort of expect that of us. More than a few times I've gotten the impression that my gay acquaintances at the clubs don't know what to make of me because I don't exhibit such mannerisms. I think I come across as more feminine than masculine, but I don't try to exaggerate anything or be someone I'm not. Like you say, I would feel like a caricature if I did that.

[Lorileah]

Remember, "judge not that ye be not judged".



UH...I thought I judged myself pretty well :heehee:

I said I am a male chauvinist pig. I can also be the perfect gentleman. I am a lady when dressed but I am also a vixen. I am all. And PC is getting to be sooooo boring. How many million times have there been posts describing how CD's could never understand exactly how women are treated or how they feel. The TG's bristle at the suggestion that they are different in mind set, then turn around and "dis" women for not thinking like they do. Either we embrace the fact that men and women think differently or we go down the rabbit hole of ...beige

[Toni_Lynn]

I do agree that men get bad raps, here and and amongst GGs beacuase of certain activities as Stephenie outlined:


It's not that all men are boorish louts with nothing better to do than burp, fart, and ask for more beer while they watch TV. It's just that those are the ones who get noticed. They stand out, I think. We remember them because we are so repelled by this behavior.

But as Anne pointed out:


There are boorish men out there, as there are boorish women and even a few boorish crossdressers. *gasp!*

To that end, I think that it has to be said that it is the activities rather than gender that are tasteless.

Huggles

Toni-Lynn

[DaphneGrey]

I'll absolutely grant you this point. It's especially prevalent in TV commercials and sitcoms. To me, it's getting offensive -- heck, it's been offensive for a long time -- and I have to think that if the tables were turned, the backlash from women would put a stop to it right quick. Still, there is a kernel of truth behind the parody -- in the natural order of things, women are meant, I believe, to exert a refining influence on men.

Another valid point, but you know, I sometimes think some people sort of expect that of us. More than a few times I've gotten the impression that my gay acquaintances at the clubs don't know what to make of me because I don't exhibit such mannerisms. I think I come across as more feminine than masculine, but I don't try to exaggerate anything or be someone I'm not. Like you say, I would feel like a caricature if I did that.

Thanks for your post Sherri, I enjoyed reading it. I agree that women have a refining quality on men (some men). Also like you I come across as more feminine than masculine, and try not to exaggerate or change my behavior in any way. As I often say I am just Daphne a really feminine guy or somewhat of a masculine girl either way I am still me:)

[MiraM]

The pot calling the kettle black? Something vaguely familiar about this lumping of men together.. Oh I remember now. Isn't one of the pet peeves of cross dressers......The feeling that society lumps them all together under one label? Shame on you!

Kel

You took the words right out of my mouth.

[Fab Karen]

Either a bad attempt to impress GG's, or the ego game of putting down someone of another group to make themself feel better.

[JOJO44]

Rather than "Quote" all of the above, I will just say quote all the above. :straightface:

Well said by all,
we (most men (in general) seem to be) boors, bad smelling and worse looking bunch of louts that, for some unknown reason, women seem to want to associate with. :straightface:

Now this was said as a generality, because I see some fantastic looking ladies in our group; while I can only dream of passing. :daydreaming:


I know I fit into this group of 'less than desirable' men, but for some unknown reason my wife overlooks all of my faults and stays with me. :eek: but :)

Love you 'T'.


:love: and :hugs: to all

Josephine