When is it enough?

[Danielle76]

I've been bothered lately. I know many of you here are totally at peace with yourselves, so good on you. However, I am not. I enjoy dressing up. A lot. However I am constantly at war with it. I have a wife whom I love very much, and if she ever stumbled on to my stash...my marriage would be over. No doubts about it. It's not just that, though...even before my wife, I've never been totally at peace with it. Probably because to me, it's not expressing who I really am, it's just indulging a sexual fantasy. Although I get a HUGE turn on from getting dressed up in lingerie, dresses, stockings, stilettos and all that, and walking around in public... I kind of see it like this; I love Cold Stone ice cream, but if I indulged in it as much as I'd like, I would quickly be a 300 pound loser with no self control. So I guess that's the crux of it...self control. I'm a christian, and I have known for the last 16 or 17 years that I've been doing this that it's just not cool with God, but I always go back to it anyway. Even now I'm doing it, and I have a nice little wardrobe built up, but it's ...indulging. Although there's a side of me that totally wants to experience life as a woman (only because it turns me on to even think about it..), the dominating side knows that I would not feel proud of myself if I pursued that on a more public level. When I'm on my deathbed, I want to be able to say that I'm proud of the life I've left, and not stress about what people might find in my closet, ya know? I doubt I'm going to give this up right away, but sadly, I think it may be somewhat soon. I just can't bear to think of losing a marriage over this...as much as I enjoy it, it's just not worth it. At some point I have to say, "okay. I've had enough ice cream...time to get to the ****ing gym".

I hope you all understand that I'm not trying to pass judgement on anyone. After all, even if it's not for much longer, I am one of you....

Peace.

[Jeanna]

Good luck on giving it up.I don't mean that sarcastically. From my own experience, it was impossible to give it up without just starting over again as I love Ice cream too:) It is my belief that God doesn't mind one bit if we dress like girls after all, he created us! Maybe all in moderation is the key,,,
Jeanna

[Ruth]

I'm not going to say to you, don't do this, or whatever, because it's your life and your decision, but I would say that your post seems to be fuelled by guilt about what you are doing. Have you considered going to a therapist to explore these guilt feelings?
You must be aware that many of us here crossdress without guilt and wouldn't it be interesting to find out ways of doing just that?
Also most of us here believe that giving up is not an option...

[JulieC]

Whatever gave you the idea that God didn't want you to crossdress?

I too suffered a lot of guilt over the years. It took a long time, but I finally learned to accept myself. Once you eventually realize you can't give it up, that it's part of you, then comes the realization that you're going to have to learn to accept yourself or accept hating yourself. I chose to accept myself. I hope you do too! :)

[SuzanneBender]

Darling, no offense taken at your post. You are wrestling with something that most of the girls on this site have wrestled with. We purge in the name of shame only to come back again and again. Many of us finally find a balance between the life we have and the one we desire. That balance replaces shame with acceptance. I only wish you the best in working through it.

I don't think God has a problem with crossdressing or transgenderism. Have you seen the portraits of the apostles? They all wore dresses and some fabulous strap sandals. I believe he loves all of his children no matter their taste in clothes.

[SuzanneBender]

I'm not going to say to you, don't do this, or whatever, because it's your life and your decision, but I would say that your post seems to be fuelled by guilt about what you are doing. Have you considered going to a therapist to explore these guilt feelings?
You must be aware that many of us here crossdress without guilt and wouldn't it be interesting to find out ways of doing just that?
Also most of us here believe that giving up is not an option...

Ruth outstanding suggestion. Eliminating the clothes does not eliminate the guilt.

[sissystephanie]

Danielle, It is fairly obvious that you have a lot of guilt concerning your crossdressing. My non-professional opinion is that you have the guilt because you have never told your wife! That is too bad. Do you know for sure that it would completely wreck your marriage? True love can, over a period of time, conquer a lot!

In regards to you stopping entirely, it can be done! If you have the mental stamina to force yourself to do it. I know because some years ago I did stop completely. I did not dress at all for 5 years, and only started again because my dear wife (now deceased!) begged me to! She knew about me before we married and totally supported my activities. When she begged me to start dressing again she said that she missed having Stephanie around as her girl friend!

As far as your reference to CD'ing being against God, I don't believe that is correct. Those who say that are usually quoting the verse from Dueteronomy where it states that wearing the clothing of the other sex is an abomination to the Lord. I am Catholic and asked two Priests, both of them well trained in Theology, about that. Both of them stated that the quote was from the Old Testament and that the reason it was in there was so Men would not dress as women to avoid military service and women would not dress as men in order to into the main floor of the Temple. In plain Enlish, they both said a Crossdresser who merely dresses for pleasure, as I do, is not doing anything against God!! That is good enough for me! Besides, God is forgiving!

All that said, I am sorry that you are having these problems! I do hope that you find a peaceful way to solve them.

[Stephenie S]

Sweetie, I don't talk about God much here, as this is NOT a religious forum. But God made you JUST the way you are. Don't think you are at odds with God over this. God cares what's in your heart, not what's on your body.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[JamieOH]

truly I have experienced the same guilt.., I'm not that sexy, and a pretty ugly chic.. anyway.. back to the point.. if we truly look at what the bible says about men not wearing the clothes of women and women not wearing the clothes of men, it is from a questionable source and set of writings.. many of the older translations of the bible do not carry those words. among many other passages. These were written in by the religous power elite of England in a time when the bible was used as a tool to control the weak and poor. do not believe all that you read there, plus the clothing that they wore at that time period, the mans clothing was dresses, skirts, lots of lace, and ruffles.. very ornate and pretty. and women wore drab colorless frocks.. and aprons.. so, I fuess your wearing mens clothes when you dress now..

[chrissy hamilton]

Part of being a t-girl to me is that I am always chasing the horizon. If not going the TS route, what is the ultimate goal? I am just trying to accept it and enjoy the ride... and find the perfect pair of heels :)

Chrissy

http://skirtnheels.blogspot.com/

[EveMarie]

I can feel the pain my friend, I have a relationship that is "on the rocks" because of Evie (me). I met my current wife 15 years ago online (AOL chat room) and came from Ca to NY to be with her. From the onset I divulged everything about me, including my CDing, and even mentioned that I had had a brief affair with men in the past. Knowing this we settled in to a comfortable relationship and were married in 2002. All was wonderful, I was very discrete about my dressing, but never went out in public. Last year I decided to brave it when the wife was out of town, I dressed my best and met a friend here in town for a glass of wine at a "Known" place that is gay lesbian, and CD. I must tell you it was one of the most wonderful nights I have ever experienced.
Soon after my wife was back home again things began to fall apart when (though she denies snooping) discovered a message to my friend that said "OK I'll see you at 9…" and my wife saw that it was sent about 5 minutes after I spoke to her on the phone. That opened Pandora's Box, and now (Reader's Digest version) I'm writing this in my new apartment away from her and alone. She knew about Evie all along, but I guess the thought of involving a third party into my "fantasy" was too much for her to bare. The issue is at this moment unresolved and I'm hoping for a happy ending (getting back together):sad:

[Bonnie Lawrence]

Dear Danielle, your feelings of guilt, your fear of losing your marriage, and your struggle to reconcile your Christian faith with your crossdressing all ring so very familiar to me. I understand your desire to please God and to be able to look back upon your life as good and godly. However, if that verse in Deuteronomy didn't exist, I suspect those of us who are shame-based and from conservative faith backgrounds could beat up ourselves just as well without a verse. Each of our journeys are different, so each of us arrive at different levels of self-acceptance and different conclusions as to how we integrate our crossdressing and personal theology. It can be most confusing and painful at times.

Not only am I a former pastor, I am also a licensed chemical dependency counselor. At one time I tried to overcome my crossdressing by treating it as an addiction (your ice cream analogy is a good one!). No matter where one finds herself on the transgender continuum, our transgenderness doesn't truly fit the addiction framework. An alcoholic might be born with a genetic predisposition to being addicted to alcohol, but he is not born an alcoholic per se. On the contrary, I have come to the conclusion that we who are transgendered were born that way. If you prescribe to the belief that "God makes no mistakes," then God made you the way you are. On the other hand, if you believe your fetal brain was washed in some extra doses of female hormones, then maybe God permitted that alternate wiring to occur. Maybe both! I just figure I have a lot more things to worry about than wrestling with myself for a lifetime with something that's a beautiful part of me!

The support shared in our other sisters' messages to you are meant with much love and acceptance of wherever your journey leads you. God bless you!

[nancyish]

i was beaten when i was young and harrassed all my life 4 being efemminate.i was in denial.Only in the last few years have i accepted my femme side.Why would i pretend to be any other way.I love wearing womens clothes and thats it.No more pretending 4 me,just simple enjoyment,Nancy

[sherri52]

I don't think god cares what we wear. Adam and Eve started out naked. Makeup was originally made for men and nylon is used to jump out of airplanes. The only real problem and a serious one is your wife. If there is no way she will tolerate dressing then you should try to stop and most of us in this forum are with you and wish you well. If you can't and I hope that isn't the case we will still welcome you back with open arms. Good Luck.

[docrobbysherry]

1. Danielle, I don't think u have a problem with God. I think you may be using that as an excuse to feel guilt! After all, Christ may have been the MOST accepting of people of all ilks, in history!:)

You're REALLY worried about what your friends, family, wife, parishioners, and maybe your pastor, mite think!:eek:

2. How do u cure a child's craving for ice cream? Let him/her eat ALL THEY WANT!:devil:
After they get sick, they usually feel differently about ice cream!:doh:

The same is tru of CDing! You're frustrated because you're NOT able to dress as much as you'd like to!:sad:

I predict you WON'T be able to give it up, until you've tried the "too much ice cream" approach first!:D

[melissacd]

For most of my life I was at war with myself, not for religious reasons, because I am not religious. I was at war with what I believed was expected of me as a male in this culture and who I felt was was deep down inside. Eventually, I came to my senses and was able to set the guilt aside and appreciate that I have to accept myself just as I am. There is no indulgence or shame here and telling my wife did end the relationship, but at least I am still here to tell the tale because where I was at was so untenable that it was killing me.

The lesson for me was to just be myself. I already knew deep down inside who that was, I just needed to accept that within myself and now I am much happier and more at peace.

Melissa

[busker]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that to me, you have too many contradictory issues and could probably benefit from a therapist. Having CDing as a sexual fetish is eventually going to collide with your marriage as you surmise. It wouldn't be much different from the days of old when a gay guy was married and had a little trist on the side, hoping never to be "found out". You call this a "turn on" but I think most here have passed that stage somewhere in youth. I do think that it is an "alchoholic" equivalent. If the crossdressing were connected to a feminine side of you, why would that entail any eroticism. Women don't get off on their own clothing.
The wife issue is a serious one, as many will attest to, and if you are going to upset her applecart , then it should be for something more than a "turn on". You owe her that much.
The religion issue may not stand the test of being a real issue except that you feel as a Christian, that you can fall back on it in times of stress. Given what has been in the news about priests this past decade, I'd say you were pretty safe in your harmless activity, even in front of your God.
Sadly for all of us who engage in this activity no matter to what extent, the guilt trip always remains but I encourage you to try an get to the real main issue here. I apologize if this seems harsh but the adult in you must take charge if you are to overcome your dilemma.
I wish you well on what may be a very rocky trip.
Mandrake

[Danielle76]

Thanks for that, Sissystephanie. That verse in Deuteronomy is exactly the one I was thinking about...what those priests told you definitely gives me something to think about.

However, I must clarify something a bit. The guilt is not just from keeping it secret from my wife. I had the guilt long before even meeting her. I guess the problem is this; I don't know how to crossdress in moderation. If I could learn to do that...IF, then it's something I could probably live with. However, when I do go through a crossdressing period of life (as I have now for the last 9 months or so...), it dominates my thinking. It's actually really counter-productive for me because I think about little else, and when I have time alone at home, that is all I do! I have a shitload of work I have to do that gets neglected as a result. I'm definitely willing to acknowledge that the problem here may not be the crossdressing itself, but just my inability to practice it in moderation. Having said that, even if God truly is totally okay with crossdressing, I believe that ANYTHING can be bad or harmful if one has an all consuming and unhealthy addiction to it.

Does that make sense?

Thanks for all your comments and thoughts. I know bringing up God here may make some uncomfortable, but so far I've seen nothing but non-judgemental posts and considerate thoughts. Truly, thank you guys for taking the time to let me know what you think.

-Danielle

[Veronica Lacey]

How do u cure a child's craving for ice cream? Let him/her eat ALL THEY WANT!:devil:
After they get sick, they usually feel differently about ice cream!:doh:

The same is tru of CDing! You're frustrated because you're NOT able to dress as much as you'd like to!:sad:

I predict you WON'T be able to give it up, until you've tried the "too much ice cream" approach first!:D

I sometimes think this theory might be valid as well...but it would take me many years of dressing to get it out of my system enough to say okay, I'm ready to give it a break. Then I wonder if it would only be a "break" and not actually dismissing dressing on a grand level.

Perhaps a good heart-to-heart with your wife is in order. If you have already tried that maybe another one is required. Perhaps plan a weekend getaway with her and say that the purpose is to discuss something very important to you, something that cannot be discussed at home. Leave the femme clothes at home, though, to prevent overload for her. The trip could just be about discussion and connecting on a new level.

Ruth suggested counselling and that is always a great first step. Having a professional help you understand your needs in a more global perspective before presenting them to your wife sounds like a great idea. Then you can answer the inevitable questions with more confidence than perhaps you could today.

These are just thoughts to help get your ideas flowing, Danielle. Only you can truly gauge your wife's reactions and only you will know the best approach after you give it some more thought.

Good Luck!

[JulieC]

However, when I do go through a crossdressing period of life (as I have now for the last 9 months or so...), it dominates my thinking. It's actually really counter-productive for me because I think about little else, and when I have time alone at home, that is all I do! I have a shitload of work I have to do that gets neglected as a result. I'm definitely willing to acknowledge that the problem here may not be the crossdressing itself, but just my inability to practice it in moderation.

I think a counselor would do worlds of help here. I think the issue you are addressing isn't crossdressing itself, but a manifestation of your personality in the form of obsession. People can get that about anything. Crossdressing is just one of hundreds of possibilities in that realm.



Having said that, even if God truly is totally okay with crossdressing, I believe that ANYTHING can be bad or harmful if one has an all consuming and unhealthy addiction to it.

Does that make sense?

Absolutely. I can't speak to how you view God. For my own part, I don't think God would want me to be doing anything self destructive. Engaging in something to the exclusion of all other things is self destructive, regardless of what it is.

At a guess, I think you need to develop some self management techniques in regards to obsessive behavior.

[CherylFlint]

Well, sometimes the X and Y chromosomes get mixed up a little and we, here on this blog, even though we were born male, have a mental desire to be, and be seen, as a female. Heck, no big deal, since I doubt that everyone ever born was born absolutely perfect in every imaginable way.
Surprising as it may seem, you are the same person dressed or as a drab. When you dress you don't change political parties, you don't suddenly crave brussel sprouts, you are still the same person although your preception of your place in society has been VISUALLY altered.
No BIG deal, although it is, for us who have to express ourselves this way, it is important. But how about just having fun? If your spouse is so whacked out of line with you in a pink blouse rather then a white shirt, it's a reaction of fear and one of not understanding. How to tell her? It all depends, but you got to go slow and be patient. Good luck, for sure.

[Jaclyn NM]

I am also a christian, and as far as I know, God does not have an opinion on how we dress. There are many things that are wrong and we shouldn't do, but the last time I refered to the ten commandments, there was no mention of clothing. That being said, you must do what is right for you, but because you stop dressing, don't ever think that the desire will disappear, because I can tell you from personal experience that it won't. There is no way we can ever lose the desire to crossdress, anymore than a homosexual can change into a heterosexual. We are what we are, and guess what, God made us this way. But in the end you must do what you think is right for you and your family, and in that, I wish you the very best.

[jenniferishappy]

Have you thought that maybe your guilt is coming from the sexual erotic desires/indulgence rather than the crossdressing? :thinking: I dont need details of your sexual indulgence, but I know Catholicism is notorious for imposing tremendous guilt on its followers (I am a lifelong recovering Catholic, and a hopeful Agnostic fwiw). It takes a tremendous amount of courage to stand up within a religion and decide for yourself what makes sense. I will hold any comments regarding a judgemental god and purely personal indulgences in sex and fantasy. I dont know so its best left at that. Be strong, and trust what you know to be true for you. Dont hurt others with malice or lack of love. You dont seem like someone who would do that. I respect your position and concerns.

[Misty G]

I don't want to get into a religious descussion here but To me being a christian the only thing that makes crossdressing wrong is having to hide it. Which in my opinion is hypocrictical. But any time you present to be something you are not it could be hypocritical in some minds. So you have to make your on descisions as to what is right or wrong here.

[Ralph]

Danielle, I can't address the guilt and other personal issues in your life but I have put a lot of thought into being a Christian who is a crossdresser. I wrote an article about it here:
http://ralphinadress.wordpress.com/2009/07/28/the-good-book/

[sherri]

Okay, I'm gonna swim across the current here. I don't for one second believe that it's impossible to give up CDing, especially if there are two factors in play:


CDing is more of a fetish for you than a deep-seated identity issue; and.
CDing is in conflict with some other element of your life, something worth giving up a fetish for.

I gotta tell you, my instinct -- and since I don't know you, it's all instinct -- is that you are more of a fetish dresser, and you are deeply conflicted about it. If you are addicted to anything here, it may be more of a sexual thing than a gender thing. I think that's the real source of your guilt.

IMHO, no fetish is worth ruining a marriage over. That would be the real sin in your situation. And second, I don't think anyone in your situation should be pursuing something like this until you have resolved your conflict issues. It isn't worth the risk, and it isn't healthy.

So get a grip, and get some help. Since you don't seem to be able to sort this out on your own, a therapist imight be a good idea. And you might want some spiritual guidance -- just be sure your Christian counselor is the open-minded, non-judgmental type, someone who doesn't believe you're going to hell cuz you like to wear high heels.

In the meantime, the next time you get the urge to dress, go get yourself some ice cream and chill out.

[jayme357]

To my fellow warriors. God bless you on this day of rememberance.

This is a great thread! I assume all of us have played the guilt thing in one form or another throughout our crossdressing lives. For most of us it will probably never totally go away. I think it changes over the years and I also think we make many subtle adjustments to help us manage the complexities of the issue. For example, I no longer experience any guilt whatsoever over the fact that I love to dress in womans clothing. Wouldn't change it if I could.

BUT! My SO is supportive in every way, but I know that if she had a choice she would prefer that I didn't dress. My guilt is that I love her so much that the thought of dissappointing her is a heavy burden. As a result I tend to "hide" my dressing as much as possible so as to relieve her of this burden as best I can. Even though I have been given the freedom to do as I wish I struggle with that freedom because of my respect for this wonderful woman.

I would really appreciate any suggestions or other feedback particularly from GG's as to whether my thoughts are realistic or dillusional.

[Danielle76]

Just needed to comment on Sherri's post. You SO nailed it. It is definitely a fetish thing for me, not a gender identity issue. Seriously, thank you so much for helping me crystalize that in my thinking. You seriously helped me learn something about myself today, and for that I will be eternally greatful. You're quite correct about no fetish being worth destroying a marriage. I can appreciate what some others have been saying about me needing to come out to my wife, but that would be closer to appropriate if it was a serious gender identity issue, which as you so eloquently pointed out, is not the case with me.

Just an update for you guys, I was in quite a bit of distress about it for the last few days, but yesterday and today, I've barely even thought about it! I believe I'll keep a very small stash and indulge when the mood strikes me, but I'm thinking that I'm kinda on the tail end of my binge, so to speak... I'm feeling a lot more peaceful about things right now, as dressing up has not been dominating my thoughts near as much.

As I said, for now, at least, I intend to still dress up once in a big while, so I hope you guys don't mind if I still drop by every now and then.

Thank you all SOOOO much for your kind words, advice, and support.

Oh, and Sherri...loved your comment about me needing to get ice cream at the end of your post...laughed my ass off!

Much love!!!

-Danielle

[Fab Karen]

god doesn't judge you. god wouldn't have made you like this if it were something god didn't want. Throw out that book written by chauvinists in a backward superstitious time.

[sherri]

Well I'm delighted if I was able to help in some small way, Danielle. Or should I say Dan? :) It's easy for any of us to stand too close to the tree sometimes.

If I could just offer one more little thought -- about keeping a stash. I'm not poking my nose into your business, just observing in general, but since you've admitted the dressing is a fetish, which I assume is sexual in nature, is hanging onto that a good thing for your marriage? Just a thought.

At any rate, best wishes and God bless Bluebell ice cream! :D