Trying on lingerie in male mode

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

The topic of whether or not it is ok to try on underwear in a store, like Victoria's Secret, when one is not presenting as female, has come up in another thread, and I decided to start this thread to splinter off that discussion rather than keep the other thread off-topic.






I'm talking about sacred territory when it comes to trying things on at VS (in keeping with the example we're talking about) and the perceptions of the customers. Take a moment and step outside of the "we have the right to use any dressing room we please" mode and put yourself in the shoes of a Mainstreet USA woman. Right or wrong, a man in the fitting room trying on female undergarments is likely to be seen as creepy by other women. The man could have the most feminine heart around but at the end of the day he is still a guy trying on a bra.


I understand your point entirely, however, I don't agree with it. First of all, you're right, at the end of the day he is still a guy trying on a bra. But that's all he is. Does a man who wears a bra have any less right to make sure it fits comfortably than a woman does? You're right, some women might see it as creepy, but that can also happen at any other women's clothing store, the thing is to be on your absolute best behavior, and be relaxed and make it clear that it really isn't a big deal, so they can see that you're not creepy, you're just a guy who wants to wear a bra.

The basic suggestion is that if a guy wants to try on lingerie in a shop, he should present en femme when he does it. The problem with that statement is that it disregards the crossdressers that don't dress in femme. There are plenty of CDs who only underdress, and they're not doing it for purely sexual reasons, but rather than lingerie under the clothes is enough for them to satisfy their feminine desires.

Personally I only own one bra and I only pull it out on rare occasions, so if we're specifically talking about bras, then I'm not too concerned about trying them on. But I recently did try on panties at a Vanity Fair store, at the suggestion of the SA who wanted to make sure I got the right size. I didn't even think of asking to try them on, I was trying to eyeball them on the rack and the SA told me that I should just take them to the fitting room. I did this in male mode because, if you can't tell from my avatar and the majority of my pictures, I'm pretty much always in male mode, even when I wear skirts. So I guess I don't see how trying on underwear just to make sure it fits isn't ok when I dress the way I do, but if I spent a half hour putting on makeup and a wig and such that it would be ok then.

Now, having said that, I do think when it comes to intimate apparel, due to the nature of the garments, some restraint is necessary. Unlike other types of clothing where you should feel free to try everything on to see how it all looks, when it comes to underwear I really feel like, regardless of your sex, you should only try on one, maybe two items for the SOLE purpose of making sure that it fits properly, and that's it. Also, again due to the nature of the items, one really should only try on underwear if they have every intention of buying the item they're trying on unless it simply doesn't fit. And obviously when it comes to panties, wear your own pair under them.

[Karen7cd]

I have tried on bras (while in drab) at kohl's, Victoria's secert, Walmart. I just ask the woman in front of the waiting room if its ok for me to try it on in the Woman's dressing room.
They may look at you a little funny but at this point I don't care.
the girl at VS was great! She came in with me, measured and help get a good fit.
Karen

[Karren H]

I don't go there.... I know what fits and I just buy it off the rack.. And hardly ever buy something I need to take back... I don't try on male underware either..... And usually when I'm out shopping... I'm wearing lingerie so I can see how the cloths look and feel when out enfemme...

[Stephenie S]

These questions which portray a women's clothing store as "sacred territory" have their origins in someone's mind, NOT the stores' behavior.

Maybe we should have a sticky on this subject. Stores want your money. That's the long and the short of it. The stores WANT you to come in and spend your money. They don't care what you wear to do it.

Jiminy Cricket, the dressing rooms are PRIVATE. With DOORS on them. You're not exposing yourself to ANY other customer. No normal natal women would just try on a bra in the middle of the store. If that's your intent then maybe you ARE creepy and maybe you SHOULD be asked to leave.

If you are clean, polite, and SPEND MONEY, there is no store in the land that does not want your business. Every other distressful situation you manufacture is being manufactured by you in your own mind and only there.

Part of some guys attraction to the "sacred territory" myth is that it increases the excitement of the act.

"Look at ME, I'm doing something I shouldn't. I'm in "sacred territory."

That's OK, I guess. But it really seems kinda silly, doesn't it? Sorta like dashing in and out of a church and then boasting about it to your buddies? When in reallity, churches want and ENCOURAGE people to come in?

And it may discourage some guys from actually shopping for what they want. Who among you hasn't stolen an article of clothing from a female friend or relative? STOLEN!! We all know that stealing is wrong. If you are religious, it's a SIN. That same article of clothing could just be BOUGHT. And bought in the correct size and style by just going into a store and paying for it. You would have been WELCOMED into that store.

Listen guys, I am trying to teach you something here. How many thousands of dollars are spent on illfitting garments that are the wrong size, the wrong style, or even the wrong garment itself? When you go into a store and the SA asks if she can help you, say, "Yes". Be clear and polite and confident and you will have a pleasant experience. Learn the SA's name. Introduce yourself. Next time you go back look, or ask, for her.

I now have a SA in JC Penny who knows my body shape and my tastes and who I now trust implicitly. If she says something looks good on me (and I can afford it), I buy it. It's wonderful to be welcomed by name when you go shopping and to hear that she has been saving something in my size for me to try on. When I shop there I never even have to leave the dressing room. She just keeps bringing me stuff to try on. And she shops sales for me, which is great.

If you sneak around, pretending that you are not welcome, or that you are on some secret stealth mission, you will NEVER know the true joys of shopping.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

Listen guys, I am trying to teach you something here. How many thousands of dollars are spent on illfitting garments that are the wrong size, the wrong style, or even the wrong garment itself? When you go into a store and the SA asks if she can help you, say, "Yes". Be clear and polite and confident and you will have a pleasant experience. Learn the SA's name. Introduce yourself. Next time you go back look, or ask, for her.


You're absolutely right here. When I tried on underwear recently at Vanity Fair, I left with four pairs because I knew they would fit. Before the SA approached me and helped me, I may have bought one pair, but that was even something I wasn't sure about because I didn't know my sizing and I don't like buying clothes anymore when I don't know it'll fit.

[Karren H]

Ohh Yeah.... Always willing to be taught something new.... But I know what I like way more than any SA I've run into... And the hunt is all part of the fun... So unless I know they have something that I can't find... I don't use them...

And call me old fashion... I feel that I am invading their world..... I don't mind it and it doesn't bother me to be there but I try to minimize my impact on the other women customers in the store..... After all.. They are in business to make money and if I drive away ther business and the go belly up it ends up hurting me too.. Just the way I feel...

[suchacutie]

I've never tried on any male underwear in a store.

So why do I need to try on a bra or panties or stockings???

I can use a measuring tape as well as any SA, and I understand how cup sizes work, and all bras have more than one set of catches for a modicum of variation in size...

so why do I need to try on lingerie in a store?

(now, dresses and skirts and such is a different story for a different thread).

tina

[nancyish]

When i ask to try on womens clothes the sa usually point to the ladies dressing room but i always go to the mens room,Nancy

[chelle]

Some states do not allow underwear to be tried on in the store. Bras are not considered underwear in most cases.

[Stephenie S]

So why do I need to try on a bra or panties or stockings???

Well, you don't.

Most panties are pretty size consistant. You can probably tell by looking if a size will fit you. Once you discover your size you can be pretty certain that another size 7 (or whatever) will fit. And in many places it's illegal to try on panties.

Stockings? I don't wear 'em. I didn't know they were even sold anymore. I REMEMBER stockings and those uncomfortable garter belts, but I don't bother with 'em at all any more. Bare legs in the summer and tights or pants in the winter.

But a bra? OMG, bras vary SO much that even the same bra in the same style in the same size can vary. I make it a point to try on every bra I buy. I want it to FIT because an uncomfortable bra can be REALLY uncomfortable by the end of the day. If it doesn't feel great when I try it on, I don't buy it.

They are also (at least the good ones) expensive, and I have no desire to fill my closet with expensive uncomfortable clothes.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[maggiecdva]

I have had no problem trying on womens clothing at Lane Bryant while dressed as a man. They are very helpful and kind. In most stores they have separate dressing rooms so they just open a door for me and I step inside.

A few times when I've been there later near closing I've even stepped outside the dressing room to get the associates opinion.


At Kohl's I usually can put the clothing in a cart or bag and carry it to the mens dressing room where there are individual rooms. I try the clothing on in private with no one knowing.


Usually, with the exception of bras trying on lingerie is a no-no. The same goes for swim suits if the protective device is not in place. Fortunately I know my size in panties and such. Sometimes I try on a bra if it's a new style. Outer wear is no problem.

Hugs - Maggie

[Joanne f]

Most place`s in the UK will not let anyone try on underwear like panties for a very good reason "hygiene" and there is also a policy in a lot of places of making them no returnable for the same reason.
I have tried on and asked to try on quite a few things but (always that but):D i have never and would never ask to try on underwear as it has so many connotations as to why you may be doing it , it has the potential of doing more harm than good as far as cross dressers are concerned so in my opinion it is best left well alone .

[BarbraAnne]

I work in a discount clothing store and many times women take men's boxers and other men's items in to try on. No big deal. So why should it present a problem if a man takes some lingerie into the men's side to try on? It's not so much the women that would give you a hard time, it's the uptight guys!
TTFN, Barb

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

Most panties are pretty size consistant. You can probably tell by looking if a size will fit you. Once you discover your size you can be pretty certain that another size 7 (or whatever) will fit. And in many places it's illegal to try on panties.


And what do you say to people who have yet to discover their size? I'm the case in point again here. I lost 50 pounds this year. In men's clothes I went from an XL to a Medium in most cases. So when I tried on panties last week it was specifically to find out what my new size was. And I need to reiterate, I had no intention of trying them on until I was instructed to do so by the sales associate. Had she not done so, I probably would have bought one pair and hoped for the best. Instead, I bought four, confident in the fact that they would fit. And now I won't need to try them on again as long as I stick near this same body size.

As I said in my first post, you absolutely should have every intent on purchasing an undergarment if you try it on, unless it just truthfully doesn't fit. And frankly, if your issue with it is one of hygiene only, I don't disagree with you on that. But frankly that is an issue for both sexes, and doesn't have anything to do with some silly notion of it being "Sacred" territory. This hygiene thing doesn't really apply to bras though, so if someone wants one they absolutely should be able to try one on to make sure it fits. I would say this applies to all "top" types of lingerie, such as corsets and bustiers and such as well.

I don't know why people keep bringing up the legality issue, obviously if it is not legal, don't do it.

[Stephenie S]

I know my size by now so this is not an issue any longer. I buy my panties online and I just buy my size.

But, to answer your question . . . . .along with EVERY pair of panties I receive on line is a little printed note which says, "Please try on "ours" over "yours". We check every pair which is returned, and will not credit any returned panty which has been worn."

Evidently, they can tell.

Years ago, they gave you little paper panties to wear when you tried on undergarments in the store for just that purpose.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

Seriously? In my first post on this topic I said:


"And obviously when it comes to panties, wear your own pair under them."

[Andy66]

When I worked in the clothing departments at WalMart I only ever saw ONE guy in two years who looked like he wanted to try on lingerie (a sexy nightie). The fitting room lady and I encouraged him to try it on but he chickened out. Too bad.
:(

We really don't mind men trying on lingerie. It's not about making a sale since we aren't on commission. We just want to do a good job and want our customers to be happy. I just hope nobody takes it personally if they can't try on the panties there, and are asked to keep their own undies on when they try swimsuits and nighties. (But by all means, feel free to try on the bras.) The GGs have to abide by the same rules.

If a fitting room attendant doesn't let you try things on without a darn good reason, you are in a bad store. Tell the manager and the corporate office why you won't be shopping there any more.

[Rhonda Jean]

I don't think very much of this trying on underwear has anything to do with finding out if it fits. I mean come on, we are guys. Surely you've got a tape measure. That pretty much takes care of the band size on bras. Beyond that, at least in my case, it's more a matter of making me fit the bra than it is the other way around. With panties, they're either a S,M,L (5, 6, or 7), etc. and are so stretchy that if you misjudge by a size you'll still probably be able to wear them. Then if you want them a little tighter or loser, just by a different size next time.

If it's not against the law everywhere to try on panties, it should be. Even if you have the intent of purchasing them, the mere fact that you thought you needed to try them on indicates that you may not. And trying "ours over yours"? First off, that probably doesn't accomplish much, and second off, how would anyone know that suggestion was adhered to?

I think that guys try on women's underwear, usually, because it turns them on. Maybe a little, maybe a lot. Beyond that, maybe it's because it's the chance to admit to the SA that they wear panties. Maybe that's a thrill, too. Maybe it's just to show they can do it and they're not going to let anybody stop them. Maybe it's to see someone's reaction. There are probably a lot of other reasons, almost none of which have to do with making sure they fit. If you really want to see what size panties you wear, spend $3 or $4 at TJ Maxx and take them home. There's about a 95% chance you guessed right. If you're wrong, what the hell. You go back and try again!

In my (vast!) pantie buying experience, just about all of them feel good for the first few minutes. If you don't like them after wearing them all day, no big deal. Go bck and get some more!

[Sara Jessica]

OMG, look at the can of worms I opened!!!


First of all, you're right, at the end of the day he is still a guy trying on a bra. But that's all he is. Does a man who wears a bra have any less right to make sure it fits comfortably than a woman does? You're right, some women might see it as creepy, but that can also happen at any other women's clothing store, the thing is to be on your absolute best behavior, and be relaxed and make it clear that it really isn't a big deal, so they can see that you're not creepy, you're just a guy who wants to wear a bra.

The basic suggestion is that if a guy wants to try on lingerie in a shop, he should present en femme when he does it. The problem with that statement is that it disregards the crossdressers that don't dress in femme. There are plenty of CDs who only underdress, and they're not doing it for purely sexual reasons, but rather than lingerie under the clothes is enough for them to satisfy their feminine desires.

Personally I only own one bra and I only pull it out on rare occasions, so if we're specifically talking about bras, then I'm not too concerned about trying them on. But I recently did try on panties at a Vanity Fair store, at the suggestion of the SA who wanted to make sure I got the right size. I didn't even think of asking to try them on, I was trying to eyeball them on the rack and the SA told me that I should just take them to the fitting room. I did this in male mode because, if you can't tell from my avatar and the majority of my pictures, I'm pretty much always in male mode, even when I wear skirts. So I guess I don't see how trying on underwear just to make sure it fits isn't ok when I dress the way I do, but if I spent a half hour putting on makeup and a wig and such that it would be ok then.

Now, having said that, I do think when it comes to intimate apparel, due to the nature of the garments, some restraint is necessary. Unlike other types of clothing where you should feel free to try everything on to see how it all looks, when it comes to underwear I really feel like, regardless of your sex, you should only try on one, maybe two items for the SOLE purpose of making sure that it fits properly, and that's it. Also, again due to the nature of the items, one really should only try on underwear if they have every intention of buying the item they're trying on unless it simply doesn't fit. And obviously when it comes to panties, wear your own pair under them.

You generally have your heart where mine is, respect and restraint, even if our presentation may differ.


These questions which portray a women's clothing store as "sacred territory" have their origins in someone's mind, NOT the stores' behavior.

Maybe we should have a sticky on this subject. Stores want your money. That's the long and the short of it. The stores WANT you to come in and spend your money. They don't care what you wear to do it.

Jiminy Cricket, the dressing rooms are PRIVATE. With DOORS on them. You're not exposing yourself to ANY other customer. No normal natal women would just try on a bra in the middle of the store. If that's your intent then maybe you ARE creepy and maybe you SHOULD be asked to leave.

If you are clean, polite, and SPEND MONEY, there is no store in the land that does not want your business. Every other distressful situation you manufacture is being manufactured by you in your own mind and only there.

Part of some guys attraction to the "sacred territory" myth is that it increases the excitement of the act.

"Look at ME, I'm doing something I shouldn't. I'm in "sacred territory."

That's OK, I guess. But it really seems kinda silly, doesn't it? Sorta like dashing in and out of a church and then boasting about it to your buddies? When in reallity, churches want and ENCOURAGE people to come in?

And it may discourage some guys from actually shopping for what they want. Who among you hasn't stolen an article of clothing from a female friend or relative? STOLEN!! We all know that stealing is wrong. If you are religious, it's a SIN. That same article of clothing could just be BOUGHT. And bought in the correct size and style by just going into a store and paying for it. You would have been WELCOMED into that store.

Listen guys, I am trying to teach you something here. How many thousands of dollars are spent on illfitting garments that are the wrong size, the wrong style, or even the wrong garment itself? When you go into a store and the SA asks if she can help you, say, "Yes". Be clear and polite and confident and you will have a pleasant experience. Learn the SA's name. Introduce yourself. Next time you go back look, or ask, for her.

I now have a SA in JC Penny who knows my body shape and my tastes and who I now trust implicitly. If she says something looks good on me (and I can afford it), I buy it. It's wonderful to be welcomed by name when you go shopping and to hear that she has been saving something in my size for me to try on. When I shop there I never even have to leave the dressing room. She just keeps bringing me stuff to try on. And she shops sales for me, which is great.

If you sneak around, pretending that you are not welcome, or that you are on some secret stealth mission, you will NEVER know the true joys of shopping.

Lovies,
Stephenie

Stephanie, why do you keep making this about the SA's. They've seen it all and hopefully they're professional. That is not what I am talking about. I'm referring to other women and what they perceive when they see a dude in dude-mode going into the dressing room to try on underwear.

Look at it this way...

PERCEPTION IS OFTEN REALITY.

In other words, once someone burns an idea into their head, it's hard to change the perception. So a woman who sees a guy going in to try on a bra, panties or whatever in a lingere store, they are more likely than not to giggle the tale to anyone who will listen. They are not necessarily linked in to the nuances of the TG spectrum. Chances are good they will assume perv, simple as that.

And like I said before, they may think the exact same thing if they witness the same situation when we're in girl mode. Again, like I said before, I hope that such presentation gives the woman a slightly different viewpoint through which she might draw a different conclusion.


And call me old fashion... I feel that I am invading their world..... I don't mind it and it doesn't bother me to be there but I try to minimize my impact on the other women customers in the store..... After all.. They are in business to make money and if I drive away ther business and the go belly up it ends up hurting me too.. Just the way I feel...

Thank you Karren, the attitude you are conveying is precisely my point. We need to be mindful of the other women we encounter, if for no other reason than to not freak them out to the point where they wouldn't return to a store which caters to "us". This of course is less of an issue in the larger stores but I think it's a huge concern in specialty shops and boutiques.


I've never tried on any male underwear in a store.

So why do I need to try on a bra or panties or stockings???

I can use a measuring tape as well as any SA, and I understand how cup sizes work, and all bras have more than one set of catches for a modicum of variation in size...

so why do I need to try on lingerie in a store?

(now, dresses and skirts and such is a different story for a different thread).

tina

I've actually learned first hand that even for women like us, trying on bras is kind of important.




But a bra? OMG, bras vary SO much that even the same bra in the same style in the same size can vary. I make it a point to try on every bra I buy. I want it to FIT because an uncomfortable bra can be REALLY uncomfortable by the end of the day. If it doesn't feel great when I try it on, I don't buy it.

Pretty much the only thing you've said that I agree with, mostly because you have done a great job taking my comments on a tangent where they had no intention of going.

[sherri52]

I buy my size I don't need to try it on. I may try on a dress but not undregarments

[Shelby]

Wow, what a Pandora's Box. I share Sara Jessica's sentiment.

[Stephenie S]

So, I'll try again.

I just don't agree with you. IMHO you are mistaken about the effect a crossdresser has on the natal woman (and I am assuming you are refering to natal woman) you are trying to protect. Protect from what? Protect from who? Me? Sorry, they don't need your protection from me. From some pervert? The SA and the store can do an adaquate job of that, I should think. If you or I are welcome in a store it should be no one else's business. Certainly not another shopper.

Put the shoe on the other foot, so to speak. If YOU are offended by someone else shopping is not that your problem?

You are assuming a lot about your figurative woman shopper.

1.) You are assuming that she will think a man shopping for lingerie is a pervert.
2.) You are asuming that a man shopping for lingerie IS a pervert.
3.) You are assuming that the store can't adaquately deal with a pervert shopping in their store.
4.) You are assuming that you, rather than that figurative natal woman, has more business determining who should be shopping for underwear.
5.) You are assuming that there is something inherant about UNDERWEAR that makes it different (more perverse?) than any other article of clothing.

This is no longer a personal issue for me, as I am now transitioned and perhaps have no business at all on a CD forum. I do, however, have YEARS of experience. I once WAS a crossdresser. I never, in all my many years of shopping as a CD (about 15 years), saw any hint of anything but approval from natal woman. This is just my opinion. But it is an informed opinion, based on reality and experience, not imagination.

Perhaps you had a bad experience. Perhaps a close natal friend has given you this point of view. You claim to have no trouble shopping yourself. I wonder why you are so protective of women shoppers? Believe me, they don't need it. Women are quite capable of defending themselves while shopping.

We don't need to agree, hon. There is plenty of room for different points of view on this forum. But I do think I am understanding yours.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[lingerieLiz]

WOW! Interesting

Since I, my wife and several of our gg friends love to shop together I'll input my thoughts about shopping for clothes and lingerie. I'm happy for those who have a tape and know their size, but the manufactures don't size the same. Sorry about that. I've worked in the industry, but this thread is really about trying things on.

It is true that there are laws about trying on certain garments (i.e. panties, bathing suites, etc.) because of disease and hygiene issues. Generally most places will allow someone to try them on over yours. I and most women will buy a pair of panties and wear them a few times before investing in several pairs. However, when manufactures change plants they often end up with slight variations which may change the size you need.

Bras are a different matter and you can return them. Most (80%+) women wear the wrong size. Even some brands such as VS use different band criteria. Therefore, I do not see how one would know how the bra would fit. Going from brand, line, and style adds even more variables and thus the need to try them on. Most women I know try on several bras before they find one that fits comfortable and fits their needs. Add to that the need to have the bra work with various clothes increases the complexity.

I try on most bras before I buy them. I do shop in drab and different stores have different ways of handling men trying on women's' clothes especially lingerie even within the chain. While I have often used the dressing room in the lingerie department some stores require you to go to the men's' section. I don't like going to the "men's section" because of the reactions you get from men there. It really does bother them.

Most perverts don't frequent the women's departments! They are in the men's and children's section believe it or not.

More to come!

[DaphneGrey]

What Rohnda Jean said!

[Jocelyn Quivers]

I'm basically with Rhonda's philosophy. I also have a tape measure, which solves most problems on sizing.

[Francine Nice]

I do dresses and skirts and blouses because of variations in size and my body type. Seems like I am a 14 for blouses and tops and a 12 for skirts but that varies. I've never done lingerie in the dressing room but now that we are talking about it, I may try it. I've always returned or exchanged items if they didn't fit.

Francine:o

[Francine Nice]

I've always done dresses and skirts, blouses and tops. I've never tried on lingerie in a store dressing room but may try bras after this discussion. Anything, in the past, that didn't fit properly, I just returned or exchanged for a larger size. I've only had one embarrassing moment in a dressing room. I took dresses, skirts and blouses in with me and I could hear the women outside giggling and gathering a crowd of other SA's to see me walk out of the dressing room. Never gone back to that store.

Francine

[Sara Jessica]

I told myself I wasn't going to get back into this. I thought about my original post where I was very clear that I was simply conveying my opinion and somehow I have found myself in utter defense of it. So I'll try again too...


So, I'll try again.

I just don't agree with you. IMHO you are mistaken about the effect a crossdresser has on the natal woman (and I am assuming you are refering to natal woman) you are trying to protect. Protect from what? Protect from who? Me? Sorry, they don't need your protection from me. From some pervert? The SA and the store can do an adaquate job of that, I should think. If you or I are welcome in a store it should be no one else's business. Certainly not another shopper.

No, I'm not trying to protect anyone but ourselves. We can be our own worst enemy if we're not mindful of how we're perceived.

What I'm trying to convey is linked to another strong belief I hold close to my heart is that we all have a different degree of being out which affects our ability to be activist for a cause that is acceptance. Personally, you won't see me marching in parades, not likely to be attending rallys and I certainly won't be wearing the little bracelet on the upcoming CD'ers day that is being bantered about (although I'm wondering when a Hallmark card will be made for the occasion). My activism is to treat every individual interaction I have with the public in such a manner that I hope leads to a little understanding, empathy and maybe at the end of the day a degree of acceptance which in turn will affect that person's future encounters with someone from the TG community.


Put the shoe on the other foot, so to speak. If YOU are offended by someone else shopping is not that your problem?

Sure, but perceptions become reality as I have said before.


You are assuming a lot about your figurative woman shopper.

Any assumptions I make are only out of caution, see below.


1.) You are assuming that she will think a man shopping for lingerie is a pervert.

No, many men shop for their SO's. Actually, they probably think it's quite charming that the guy will go to such effort.

2.) You are asuming that a man shopping for lingerie IS a pervert.

No, see above, many men who frequent the likes of VS are in fact shopping for a SO.

3.) You are assuming that the store can't adaquately deal with a pervert shopping in their store.

Assuming said male is behaving in a perverted manner, then why should such store even have to deal with it? The guy should stay home and not bring unwilling participants into his little fantasy.

4.) You are assuming that you, rather than that figurative natal woman, has more business determining who should be shopping for underwear.

Sorry, never said that.

5.) You are assuming that there is something inherant about UNDERWEAR that makes it different (more perverse?) than any other article of clothing.

Not necessarily but face it, typical men who buy lingere (which could very well include a pretty pair of panties or a nice bra) for their women have little interest in trying the stuff on beforehand.

None of the above 5 points really spoke to what I was trying to say.


Perhaps you had a bad experience. Perhaps a close natal friend has given you this point of view. You claim to have no trouble shopping yourself. I wonder why you are so protective of women shoppers? Believe me, they don't need it. Women are quite capable of defending themselves while shopping.

We don't need to agree, hon. There is plenty of room for different points of view on this forum. But I do think I am understanding yours.

No bad experience here. As I have described above, this is simply a POV I've developed through years of experience being out myself. It comes from absolutely hating the fact that we as a community can still be a target for ridicule in this day. My opinions are driven by a sense of personal responsibilty to represent well.

I'll go back to Shelby's story which started this whole thing. I sincerely believe she went about it the right way and would bet that there was zero creepy factor perceived by the SA's. I simply said that personally, I wouldn't have gone about it that way. But trust me, there is plenty of creepy out there and those interactions tear down the progress towards acceptance that many in our community strive for.

[Stephenie S]

Yes, I agree. When you add the "creep" factor it changes things.

Lovies,
Stephie

[Melinda G]

I wasn't aware you could "try on" underwear in any mode.
Now for the bonus round: Would you buy underwear that someone else had "tried on"?

[lingerieLiz]

Melinda G how would you know. I will guarantee that many of the bras have been tried on by someone else before they are sold. Stand in the lingerie department for a few minutes and watch home many women will take bras in to try on. Stores don't throw them away if the woman doesn't buy them. I think panties aren't tried on as often. In either case simply trying them on wouldn't leave any clues. Then again some like the idea of wearing others undies. Personaly it is not my thing, but it does exist. Just wash them before wearing them.

[Andy66]

Melinda G how would you know.
Actually she's correct. Bras get tried on, but with a few rare exceptions underwear (panties) may not be tried on. The difference is the area of the body they came into contact with, of course. And you would be surprised how often it's obvious that an underwear has been tried on.

At WalMart for example panties can't even be brought into the fitting room. If someone slips past the attendant with panties and then hands them back, the attendant has to assume they were tried on and throw them away.

I wouldn't want to wear underwear some unknown person has worn either, even after they have been washed. Gross.

[Francine Nice]

I would not want to try on a previously worn pair of panties or bra. I can't believe anyone would try on panties and not buy them.

Francine:o

[Andy66]

I would not want to try on a previously worn pair of panties or bra. I can't believe anyone would try on panties and not buy them.

Francine:o
I wouldn't want to buy either one either, but bras are considered okay to try on, by whoever makes up the rules. For the record, I have never in my life tried on panties or bra in a fitting room... but a lot of people do, or try to. Most people are pretty clean and decent, but in retail there's always a problem concerning a few dirty, tacky people trying on the clothes. We try to control it, but sometimes we end up having to throw away clothing because someone left a stain or bad smell on it. I'm talking about even blouses and pants here. What is wrong with some people?

[Aaron Zwidling]

A tape measure just doesn't do it for me. In my life I've bought something in the neighbourhood of forty or so bras, and many of them have fit quite differently even though they were the exact same band and cup size. Add in the fact that even if a bra is the correct size, it isn't always comfortable. The structure of the bra, material it's made from, placement of the bra straps and other factors can all have an impact on how the bra feels when wearing it. I've wasted a lot of money buying bras that I ended up not liking very much, and now I always try before I buy, and I always do it in drab.

To me the only real criteria is how the store itself feels about allowing men to try on the bras they sell. People can claim our money is as good as anyones, and it's discrimination if a store treats us differently than women, but to me the bottom line is stores have a right to try and make money. If a store feels men trying on bras in their store will lose them more business from women than it will gain them from men, then I could see how the store would decide to not let us try them on. They may or may not be right in their opinion, but to me the store is entitled to make that call for themselves. I'll just leave and find a store that has decided that me shopping there gains them more business than it costs them, and spend my money at that store.

To be honest I haven't found it to be much of a problem finding stores that will let me try on bras. I personally know of three stores that don't have any problem with it, and those three are the only ones I've ever asked. There were a few stores where I almost asked but got an uncomfortable 'vibe' from the SA, so didn't ask. I'm guessing some of those might have given me a 'no' but can't say for sure.

[Jodi M]

I am sure TheSA's have seen it all.once while shopping I saw a GG try on a bra right in the ailse of the lingerie department. She put it on right over top of her loose fitting light sweater.

[lingerieLiz]

If women thought it was strange then why would several upscale bra manufactures advertise fitting events with trained specialist. Many of us started our passion for feminine attire by trying on lingerie belonging to female members of the family. Separating the act of crossdressing from the fetish, why would we not approach buying clothes as most women would. Having gone shopping with several women in addition to my wife over the years, I can assure you that women try on most everything they purchase because their clothes are more form fitting than men's. It is also true that manufactures of women's clothes are not consistent in size. This is true even within the same line, brand, and sizes.
One of my girlfriends designed bras. She explained the process and why each style had slightly different measurements because of seaming etc. If you, as I, don't wear forms, then it is even more important to try before you buy. Breasts are not the same. They may be the same cup/volume size, but shaped different. I've carried a half dozen bras into the fitting room and not a single one fit me correctly or comfortably. Women shopping with me have done the same. Wearing forms gives you a wider latitude about the fit.
In my constant travels around the country I have found very few stores that had a problem with selling me what I wanted. I've used women's dressing rooms in drab even with women in the next cubicle. Even had a conversation with one woman while waiting for the SA to bring us both something. I've had SAs bring me a bra on special to try on because it was similar to one I was trying on. If you go with the flow and act right they want your business.