The Agony and the Ecstasy...

[Leslie Langford]

Well, Friday the 13th lived up to its name for me when the excrement hit the proverbial ventilator and my wife went medieval on my sorry a$$, but before I elaborate, here's a bit of background:

I posted earlier this week in the Beauty section about my excitement over my upcoming back-to-back makeover and manicure sessions by two different GG's who run separate businesses, but who also work collaboratively with shared clients. In other words, the make up artist referred me to the nail salon, and both ended up being awesome visits. Here is the link to that post:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119592

The Ecstasy

This was my second visit with my make up artist Kelly, and she sincerely seems to enjoy doing my makeovers. She did her usual fabulous job, including my eyebrows which are a challenge because they are naturally somewhat sparse yet bristly. I then proceeded directly to Laura's nail studio after this makeover. This was my first visit with her, and it ended up being an equally enjoyable experience. She was warm, friendly, and seemed to be genuinely interested in - and supportive of - the CD lifestyle.

Laura and I had a lovely conversation about all aspects of crossdressing while she was doing my nails, and she gave me a number of tips on how to improve my body language based on her initial impression of me. In a nutshell, it came down to more eye contact and more smiling, especially when interacting with GG's. She said that avoiding eye contact sends out the inadvertent signal that one is nervous, lacks confidence, or is otherwise ashamed of oneself. She looked me square in the eyes and told me that I had nothing whatsoever to be ashamed of in the way I was presenting myself as a female and should just go out there and interact with other GG's as if I totally belonged in their world. Ironically (and coincidentally), this is the exact same message that is the subject of the Eye Contact thread appearing elsewhere in these forums.

The need for better and more sustained eye contact and more frequent smiling was obviously not news to me and something that I had already made efforts to improve upon. However, hearing this directly (and in person) from someone else without them being prompted, along with the affirmation that this would allow me to totally blend in - if not "pass" outright - was a major confidence boost to me, and made me determined to focus specifically on this aspect during the shopping trip that I had planned for afterwards.

I have to say honestly that this was my best shopping trip en femme yet. Not only did I actively seek out SA's to assist me, but my confidence mixed in with all that eye contact and smiling sent out just the right signals, and they bent over backwards to serve me. In some cases, other SA's even joined us as I was being whisked into fitting rooms plied not only with my original selections, but also with items that they had selected on my behalf and felt might look good on me. I've never been a rock star, but this came close to what it must feel like when surrounded by groupies whose main aim is to please - almost surreal, actually. I even went into a La Vie en Rose lingerie shop and tried on a couple of selections with no problems whatsoever. Well, needless to say, I was on Cloud 9 on the way home after all those positive experiences that day.

The Agony

And now for the bad news...

My wife had gone to my daughter's house on Thursday afternoon to babysit, stay overnight, and was then supposed to go directly to work from there the next morning. As I had gotten home late from my all day en femme shopping excursion, I went to bed without first taking care of all my girly stuff, thinking that I would have plenty of time to do so in the morning before she came home for lunch as she usually does. Well, you all know where this is heading...:eek:

Yes, I was still in bed at about 7:15 in the morning when I heard a key being inserted and turning in the lock of the door leading into the house from the garage. At first, I thought someone was trying to break in, and when I ran downstairs to check it out, I don't know who was more startled - my wife or myself. Well, it seems that she had left my daughter's place early and had decided to come by our home first to drop off her suitcase and have a quick bite of breakfast before heading off to work. And then my wife spotted my women's clothes, shoes, make up, purse etc. laying around... Well, I'll spare you the gory details, but since she's only moderately tolerant of my crossdressing and we usually have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy in effect, I am now missing more than a couple strips off my back, and the air is still so thick around here that you can cut it with a dull knife :sad:.

They say that time heals all wounds (or is it "wounds all heels"?), so I'm not quite sure yet where this is all headed. So yes, Friday the 13th turned out to be true to its reputation for me yesterday, even though I am not normally superstitious.

But as for Thursday, Nov. 12th...totally, totally awesome :thumbsup:.

[DiannaRose]

Wow, Leslie, I'm so sorry that happened. Does NOT sound like a fun time (though your Thursday sure does!). Here's a thought, though...even though your wife is only "moderately tolerant" of your crossdressing, that is still a long shot better than what some of us have. It probably doesn't seem plausible to you, but there are people here who would still trade places with you, back strips, butter knives and all. :)

I guess what I'm trying to say boils down to "it could have been worse". :)

Here's praying for a smooth and quick wound-healing, Leslie!

[Leslie Langford]

Thank you, Dianna, for your kind words of encouragement.

Hopefully this tempest will pass without too much collateral damage, and as the philosopher Nietzsche once said, "That which doesn't kill me makes me stronger".

I am now becoming so comfortable being out and about en femme that I am almost starting to scare myself, but the serene feeling of being so totally at peace with myself when doing so, and the fact that this all seems so natural and normal to me, is hard to put into words.

Finding this website and having so many other "gurlz" in the same situation to fall back on for understanding and support is truly a Godsend :thumbsup:.

[DiannaRose]

...the serene feeling of being so totally at peace with myself when doing so, and the fact that this all seems so natural and normal to me, is hard to put into words.

But we know what you mean, even without the words. :)

I haven't gone out en femme at all yet, but when I'm in a dress--even for an hour or so at home--I'm more relaxed, comfortable and confident than when I'm not. It's bizarre, but undeniable. I carry that feeling around with me most other days in the form of tights, panties and/or a bra under my guy clothes. And when I can't wear anything at all, I soon start feeling...wrong.

I think a lot of us here experience similar things.

[dilane]

Sorry, but that sounds to me more like a prison than a marriage.

She came back unexpectedly (and who knows, maybe she wanted to "test" her control over you). Obviously you wouldn't have done that if you knew she'd be back.

If she's not one of those "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" types, I strongly suggest some therapy with a truly neutral therapist.

[boardpuppy]

I understand, my truse is a "don't see, don't rant" type of understanding. However, that confortable feeling inside you is oh so nice and cozyn. As in all things this to will pass away. Toe the line and it my be sooner than later.

Hugs,
Alice

[Sally2005]

Just try to keep the glow you are feeling...maybe she will see it and decide she likes when you are happy and will eventually come around.

[ggtracy]

Here is my GG point of view: she is probably feeling hurt- like you couldn't wait for her to be gone for the night so you could do your own thing, instead of sitting at home missing her.

it's important that you both start talking again. you shouldn't have to sneak around in your own house and she should be able to come home anytime she wants too. this don't ask, don't tell policy has made you both uncomfortable in your own home.

[Andy66]

*sigh* I hate hearing about things like this. Unless it's a spending issue or something like that, what's the harm? Maybe couples counseling isn't such a bad idea. :(

[Leslie Langford]

...and providing their POV's from a female perspective. Yes, sometimes the Mars/Venus thing does get in the way of good communications...

I totally "get" what ggtracy is saying, but in a relationship such as mine, when is there ever a "good" time to crossdress? My wife knows that "Leslie" exists and is grudgingly (resignedly?) accepting, but that's where it ends. She prefers to remain in denial and doesn't even want to see evidence of "Leslie's" female clothes anywhere, so some are either kept in a locked closet while others are in opaque garment bags, suitcases, or in an outside storage locker.

And as for ever wanting to meet "Leslie" in person or even to see pictures of her? Fuhgeddaboudit. According to my wife, the mere thought of that makes her want to vomit. The closest she has ever come to this were a couple of accidental and extremely brief "sightings" when she came home unexpectedly and "Leslie" was only half-dressed at the time. In these unfortunate instances, I was not even remotely passable and presented the very picture of the off-putting and dreaded "guy in a dress" look. I don't think she has a clue of just how good I can make myself look with the right clothes, wig, make up, and accessories and maybe? - just maybe? - that might cause her to soften her stance in that regard, but I guess we will never know, will we?

My wife is upset about the amount of time and money I spend shopping for my female wardrobe, yet she herself hates going shopping for her clothes. I used to occasionally buy her articles of clothing for Christmas, birthdays etc. that I thought might look good on her, but I am now no longer "allowed" to do so. She now finds it "creepy" if I try to buy her something along these lines as she is convinced that when I do so, I am buying the exact same thing for myself, so for her to wear an (assumed) identical item would be tantamount to me mocking her. That is totally bogus as each of us has their own personal style in women's clothing and what looks good on her wouldn't necessarily look good on me and vice versa. You would think the fact that I am 6" taller than her and about 50 lbs. heavier would be a clue that she is way off base here, but evidently that is not the case. I have often offered to go clothes shopping with my wife as well (in drab, of course), as I am far more clued in than she is as to what the current fashions are, what lines of clothing the various women's shops carry, and where the best prices/sales are, but every time I bring it up, I am turned down outright.

So tell me, GG's - what is a crossdresser in my situation to do when he faces a brick wall every which way he turns???

Oh, and as for the "gory details" of the "Agony" part that I alluded to in my original post - maybe I should divulge some of them here to put everything into the proper context...

...so, after my wife comes home, finds me partially "dressed" and most of the articles from the previous night's outing scattered about, she goes into a screaming frenzy followed by a rampage that includes forcefully throwing my shoes and ladies' outerwear jacket down the basement stairs. She then follows me upstairs to our bedroom, spots my purse and assorted accessories on the dresser, and then proceeds to yank the contents of said purse out one-by-one and flinging them in my direction. This includes lipstick, make up compact, hairbrush, comb, sunglasses, mascara, ladies wallet, loose change, and a spare pair of pantyhose etc., all the while swearing and hurling insults at me. This includes telling me for the umpteenth time what a selfish and self-centered SOB I am and why don't I get my penis cut off and just be done with it once and for all so that I can go live as a woman full time?

O.K. - I "get" that part too: "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned". But does the "punishment" really fit the "crime" here?

Let's put this whole episode into perspective - my wife knows I am a crossdresser. I am also following the "don't ask, don't tell" rules. I am crossdressing while she is out of the house so as not to expose here to this alleged depravity. I didn't expect her to come home the next morning before going to work since she has done the same babysitting routine at our daughter's many times before and never came home first. She did not catch me in the process of molesting a child, engaging in a homosexual act, having hot monkey sex with one of her sisters or her best friend, or cashing in all of our life savings so that I could gamble them away in Las Vegas - all she saw was a bunch of women's' clothes and accessories strewn about.

Overreact much? I pass to you, GG's, to help my XY -challenged brain make some sense out of all this...

[aleshiabaum]

...and providing their POV's from a female perspective. Yes, sometimes the Mars/Venus thing does get in the way of good communications...
Overreact much? I pass to you, GG's, to help my XY -challenged brain make some sense out of all this...

From my perspective as a previously married man, I'd say either the marriage or the dressing urge needs to go.

But: finding someone that really cares about you can be quite a challenge. I've had more intense love affairs since getting divorced, but none as easy. She and I were like brother and sister in some ways. But our journeys were meant to go down very different paths, I being most excited by travel and adventure and passion, and her being a small town girl that wanted to go back to her hometown.

In my opinion, any addiction that starts to impact your life needs to be seriously examined. The more you focus on whatever you're into, the more you get into it. If it's possible to get over the death of a loved one, for instance, it's possible to let the lure of dressing fade away. Yes it would be hard, but so is quitting smoking, looking at porn, or what have you. Your wife doesn't want you to be a crossdresser. Nor should she have to, unless she married you knowing about it. Eventually, you will have to make a choice

[LaurenB]

So sorry you had to experience that Leslie. I hate to say that this is the first post I've read on this forum that makes me thankful that I'm in the closet. Marriage is a compromise. We stay married because it makes more sesne than other alternatives. Sounds kinda cold and I don't like that thought any more than anyone else. The question really is: do you love her enough to be with that treatment. Yes I know the gg's will say that your wife feels you're being self absorbed and neglecting her (and maybe there's history there), BUT I side with your comment about the punishment fitting the crime. Damn, did you explicitly hurt anyone? No. Was it that she asked you to go with her and you refused or lied? I could see that maybe ticking her off. But I think you'd have said that. No, she has issues and needs to counseling. Something is threating about this to her. There's an unpredictability to the way women react to CDing that is just downright scary to me. To me don't ask, don't tell is far worse than not knowing at all. I feel we have the right to have a private harmless space inside our head that is all ours. We do not have to share everything with our spouses and nor do they have to with us.

Good luck,
Lauren

[Presh GG]

Oh your wife is so scared. She knows her husband is slipping away , but she has no idea how or where to?
Please sit down with her and tell her. She's your wife, your kids mom. If you love her ,and I must have missed that line ,Geez, Man up and explain what CDing is all about. But be prepared to set and abide by some rules. You are right to expect some respect,but where's hers?
I'd hand her some pictures and some kind of knowledge,a letter or maybe this site ?

I'd be mad too [ no more scared] if in your wifes situation coming home to this picture , her imagination is going crazy.

So for both your future, TELL HER

I wish you the very best,
I so hope it's not too late, ...or is that what you want?

Peace,
Please keep us up on what happens, I for one care

springtime GG

What do you think she is thinking ?

[jenniferishappy]

That kind of reaction from someone in your own house is uncalled for and inexcusable. That is not love, that is condemning abuse.
Assuming you are contributing to the household expenses at an agreeable divide it is your home and sanctuary too. You were totally irresponsible leaving your girly things strewn about, that was a very bad idea. That does not excuse demoralizing abuse and humiliation. Your marriage will not survive this kind of arrangement. I have never and would never put up with that kind of thing. If this story was about a man doing this to a woman no one would pull punches about there being no excuse. If we choose to allow our feminine side to leave the closet we have to accept what consequences come with that. We can make adjustments and concessions, but to try to continue a marriage where our partner is totally repulsed by a very important part of who we are at a base level makes no sense to me. We are grown ups here, not kids or prisoners. If you are too scared to strike back out on your own with your girl as part of the package and your SO is destroying your soul over it then you have no choice but to supress and lock your girl side away. You will likely be depressed and may or may not regret this when you are in the twilight of your life but that is your call. I for one would much rather live alone and have some solid friends than to live in the situation you describe or some kind of 'dont ask dont tell' scenario that allows your partner to go through their life pretending they have someone they dont. At 40 something we are at the end of Act II, with statistically about 2 acts remaining. I am not trying to be morbid, but having been in Radiation Oncology since my late 20's I know one thing for sure, if you have your physical health and live in a free country with opportunity tomorrow can become the new best day of your life. Allowing someone else to dictate how we are going to feel about ourselves is no road to spend a lot of time on. She can leave or tell you to leave like a big girl. So I dont care how much someone dislikes something about you, no one deserves this. Ever. One girly boys opinion.

[busker]

Leslie,
I suspect your wife doesn't like the menage a trois feature of your being a cd. She is in fact competing with another woman for your attention and affection. (See Jules et Jim by Francois Trufaut for an eye opening film on the menage topic --it's not a cd film, btw.) That she puts up with it is probably a lucky break for you. This is the "dark side" referred to in another thread--marriage problems, guilt problems, etc. CDing may be worse to her than doing the things you mentioned, like making it with her best friend, having a homosexual tryst. It seems she does love YOU but not your en femme alter ego--otherwise why stay?.

Maybe an apology for your thoughlessness at leaving your things around might help, then a nice dinner out and maybe a vacation, second honeymoon?? She wants to be the ONLY woman in your life.
Mandrake

[Lorileah]

you couldn't wait for her to be gone for the night so you could do your own thing, instead of sitting at home missing her.
That would make two selfish people then. Offsetting fouls? I agree, maybe she should have been told, hey dear while you are out is it OK for me to have some "me" time?


it's important that you both start talking again. you shouldn't have to sneak around in your own house and she should be able to come home anytime she wants too. this don't ask, don't tell policy has made you both uncomfortable in your own home.


So true

[jenniferishappy]

But this is not another woman, as much as that perception may be a psychological reaction or defense mechanism. How can a dinner or vacation soothe that? This girl is part of her husband, as real as his male side. Work towards reconciling that would seem to be of immense value.

[LaurenB]

But Leslie's wife knows he CD's. There's no surprise there. She may be in denial but the fact is she knows about it. So did she was going away for the night. Did she think becuase she's in denial that Leslie is not going to CD while she's away? I just don't see why Leslie needs to apologise. It's sounds like under everyday conditions, Leslie is not in her face about CDing.

I do agree with springtime, though, your wife is scared. She probably fears losing you. So while I'm against saying sorry, I do feel that (if you love her) that it'd be wise to talk to her and explain that she has nothing to fear. Of course, there may be other factors at play here - her background, intense religious feelings etc that are very difficult to deal with.

Best

[Sheila]

Let's put this whole episode into perspective - my wife knows I am a crossdresser. I am also following the "don't ask, don't tell" rules. I am crossdressing while she is out of the house so as not to expose here to this alleged depravity. I didn't expect her to come home the next morning before going to work since she has done the same babysitting routine at our daughter's many times before and never came home first. [


Sorry, but that sounds to me more like a prison than a marriage.
She came back unexpectedly (and who knows, maybe she wanted to "test" her control over you).

So she can't come home without checking with you first or else she is some sort of control freak, according to some .......... sorry how long have you been married ?, how long has she known ?


B]She did not catch me in the process of molesting a child, engaging in a homosexual act, having hot monkey sex with one of her sisters or her best friend, or cashing in all of our life savings so that I could gamble them away in Las Vegas

Wow and that is supposed to make it all better then :Angry3: this type of comment makes me so angry ................. again how long were you two together before she found out, how much of her life has she invested before you decided to tell her or she found out by "ACCIDENT"


all she saw was a bunch of women's' clothes and accessories strewn about.

Overreact much? I pass to you, GG's, to help my XY -challenged brain make some sense out of all this...

really, if that is all then what is wrong with your boss seeing them, your neighbors, your parents, your friends and knowing they are yours, " if they are only your clothes"

Did she seek to be in a relationship with a CDER, did you give her the choice ?

[Allsteamedup]

Leslie, if you take on board your wife's complaints and do something about them you might make progress.
She objects to the time and money you spend shopping for clothes. In a woman's view this is a comparative analysis. In other words you could spend some time differently eg all those things she's asked you to fix around the house or your money eg to buy the materials to fix the things around the house; or buy something for your grandchild. (Why weren't you there babysitting with her anyway?)
She says you're a selfish, self-centred SOB. This means that there are people in your family, not just her, who would welcome some of your time and attention.
Why don't you cut your penis off...? You are reneging on your bedroom duties.
She threw all your stuff about....it wasn't the stuff she was angry about but the fact that you hadn't put the hoover around...She evidently is the working partner in your house.
You think you know better than her what she should wear, how much she should pay, where to buy it, what's fashionable. That is called arrogance. It's not nice.
On the whole we don't spend a whole day on ourselves. That's indulgence. We wouldn't usually leave our stuff all around the house. That's sloppy. She isn't the woman scorned, you are.
You have made your brick wall, Leslie. There are lots of members here who enjoy there lifestyle within it's parameters. You were able to go out on the town, have a makeover because your wife was attending to family matters. Pull your weight and you might get more consideration.
An apology and a lot of reassurance might be a good place to start. Personally, I prefer humour. How far can you throw a pair of shoes down the basement stairs? If you invite you wife for a retry and retrieve the shoes each time you might lose some of that fifty pounds excess weight.
Good luck!

[Sheila]

Maybe a read of this thread might just help a little understand where your wife is coming from :straightface:
CLICK~ HERE >>>>> If we GG's could say anything/ The good and the Bad (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106619&page=2)

[Lorileah]

But Leslie's wife knows he CD's. There's no surprise there. She may be in denial but the fact is she knows about it. So did she was going away for the night. Did she think becuase she's in denial that Leslie is not going to CD while she's away? I just don't see why Leslie needs to apologise. It's sounds like under everyday conditions, Leslie is not in her face about CDing.



Ah, the old... you should not leave cookies out on the counter because you knew I would eat them defense. By extension, then when your child does eat those cookies he/she should not apologize for eating the cookies.

There was a song in the 70's called "The Snake". A woman finds a half frozen snake and brings it in to care for it. She nurses the snake warms it feeds it. And it bites her. The snake says "C'mon woman you KNEW I was a snake when you brought me in." Poor Leslie's wife got bit

[Karen564]

Let's put this whole episode into perspective - my wife knows I am a crossdresser. I am also following the "don't ask, don't tell" rules.

Overreact much? I pass to you, GG's, to help my XY -challenged brain make some sense out of all this...

The thing I dont get in the whole mess is the , Dont ask, Dont tell thing ??? Either way you slice it, it sounds like keeping a secret from your wife..And then trash her when she finds out & upset about it..

I'm only guessing but,
Judging from her reaction, it sounds like she wasn't aware that you still cross dress, and it sounds like she had only known about it as in a passing remark from you from maybe a long time ago and she figured you were over it..

So once again for the umpteenth time, another one sided thread devoted to making the wife or SO the bad guy, and the OP the totally innocent one...poor poor me..

I'd really love to hear the wife's point of view from her, not her husband..

Am I the only one that sees this repetitive pattern here over & over again???

PLEASE!!!! STOP BLAMEING THE WIVES for your problems..it's NOT their fault, it's YOUR OWN problem that got her usually unknowingly involved with your issues..

I'm very sorry, but this is just getting very old now..and it's a bit upsetting to me to see it again & again, over & over..

:Angry3:

[mykhelee]

When I was in a don't ask don't tell it was my responsibility to make sure she never had a clue as to whether I had dressed or not. I would change before she came home. If she came home early I changed and she would be cold for a few days. It was never going to get any better.
She may never be more accepting of it, but she might.
Eventually my dressing became an issue and I did a complete purge two years before we split.
Weigh it out and proceed with caution, be honest with yourself most of all, whatever you decide.
Peace

[Kathi Lake]

Leslie,

As a fellow member of the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" club, I feel your pain. I know how it is to endure the looks, the unasked questions, the sense that you're letting them down. I also feel your wife's pain as well. I know that doing what I do does cause her pain and anger. I have tried to help her move past this, but so far, she remains in the dark at her insistence. Her only advice to me is a loving "be careful." I know that in time our love will bring this issue to a close. We know that - it just takes time.

Kathi

[DaphneGrey]

Sorry, but that sounds to me more like a prison than a marriage.

She came back unexpectedly (and who knows, maybe she wanted to "test" her control over you). Obviously you wouldn't have done that if you knew she'd be back.

If she's not one of those "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" types, I strongly suggest some therapy with a truly neutral therapist.

Maybe she just wanted to drop off her suitcase and get breafast. Unless there was a prior arrangement and it doesn't seem like the case. I don't think she did anything wrong. Her house after all.

The thing I love about these threads is that we never get the wives side of the story. Don't ask or tell means don't leave your clothes and purse out so your wife can find it.

If you need time to dress work it out with your so and then if she comes home early you can complain. It's called mutual respect, works pretty well in my opinion. Try putting yourselves in her shoes.

These jump on the band wagon beat up the wife threads are getting really old!

[Shadeauxmarie]

I'm sorry you have not received more positive comments. I would like to say that you seem to have caught her at a bad time. I mean to say she caught YOU at a bad time. Apparently, several on this board belive you are selfish and oafish for not performing in a manner in alignment with their preconceived notions of familial responsibilities. Who does yard work, fixes things, and babysits grandchildren is based with each family.

About leaving the clothes out when she came home early, people should search this forum for how many times the wife/so find out initially about the crossdressers hobby when they came home early. Or similar themes.

My suggestion would be to lay low and try to make up by showering her with attention and affection.

[Lorileah]

I am sure that more attention, jewelry and a nice dinner will make thinks all hunky dory. :brolleyes:

What we have here is a failure to communicate. I am beginning to believe who ever said there are no accidents. When you leave things strewn around you want to get caught

[sherri52]

Leslie: I'm sorry you had to go through that. I hope you don't have to wait to long before things are back to normal. I'm glad you got to have that awesome day on Thursday.

[ReineD]

Leslie, your wife does not feel secure in your relationship. She feels that Leslie took her husband away. She sees Leslie and the other GGs that Leslie can't wait to interact with as the "other women". She feels bitter because her marriage didn't turn out the way she had hoped, with a partner who cherishes her companionship more than spending time with other women.

She saw red when she saw your stuff and reacted with rage. When I found out my ex had been with another woman a long time ago, I couldn't control myself. I screamed, "How could you?" and I pummelled his chest with my fists. Then I grabbed my baby, got in the car and drove around aimlessly while my son slept in his car seat for I don't know how long. I'm crying just thinking about it. I felt betrayed, marginalized, unloved. I eventually returned home not knowing what else to do. My marriage did survive for another 20 years, but it was never the same after this.

I know that being Leslie is not akin to having an affair. But your wife does not know this. She prefers not knowing about the CDing because to her, facing its reality would mean having to come to terms with the knowledge that you prefer a different life than being her husband. Staying in denial is the only way your wife knows how to stay in her marriage and achieve some level of happiness.

The two of you need to get to the bottom of this. You need to decide exactly who you are and what you want and your wife needs to have her misconceptions about the CDing dispelled.
:love:

Your title, the Ecstasy part. I think your wife at some level knows that she does not cause this reaction in you and that nothing you do with her would come close to experiencing being Leslie. I understand the issue from your point of view, but still it is a sad situation in any relationship and it is one of the things that makes it difficult for wives to be supportive.

[trepidatiousUK]

What we have here is a failure to communicate...

"I don't like it... anymore than you do."

Leslie.

By way of introduction, I'm a site newby, but I've been dressing since about the age of 7. Bizarrely, my first experience was in the bath with a pair of my mother's tights that had been left on the radiator to dry. That aside, back to your predicament...

First thing I'd want to get clear is why do you cross dress? you call yourself Leslie, but is there an alternate personality to go with that? Have you any intention... or desire... to be en femme full-time, or physically become a woman?

Understanding yourself is the key to rebuilding your relationship with your wife. I agree with a previous contributor, your wife is undoubtedly scared, possibly jealous.

CDing is difficult to quantify, there are so many different reasons why we do it, and so many different levels to which we take it, but whatever the extent of your "habit" / "hobby" your "indulgence" you keep if a secret from your wife.... In my experience secrets kept from your wife are a bad bad thing.

Sure, she's not likely to be easily approachable on this one, but if you want stay married you are going to have to tackle it... together. Maybe that means she helps you leave Leslie behind, maybe it means she tags along on a girly shopping trip whilst your en femme and you have a great time, it could be there's a half way house.

I would advise against laying low and waiting for this to blow over, it won't, it will fester, and the next time you get caught it will all be over... and if it heads to court I wouldn't want to be your defense lawyer.

Sorry for such a long post... feel quite strongly

in summary

understand who and what you are
try every way possible to talk about it with your wife
find a compromise and set the ground rules

be prepared for "If you really love me you won't do that anymore" ... it's a killer

t

[Leslie Langford]

... for the valuable insights that you have provided me with on how to deal with my situation and re-establish domestic tranquility, including some of the "reality checks" and $$-kickings that a few of you handed out and which I probably deserved. But in the end, isn't that what friends are for?

Reine, you probably encapsulated my particular challenges the best, and I could almost hear my wife mouthing some of your words as I read them. Yes, she does see "Leslie" as a mistress of sorts and while she claims to be sympathetic to my transgender-ism in terms finally realizing that it is something that I am as opposed to something that I chose to be (albeit still confused and somewhat repelled by it), we just can't seem to get past this roadblock.

It really ends up being a vicious circle - the more my crossdressing annoys her and the nastier she gets about it, the more I withdraw into "Leslie" world every chance I get. Pretty much a standard crossdresser response I would guess, as we all know that this is the principle way in which we deal with stress. You would think that I would at least get some "Brownie points" for not seeking solace in the arms of another woman the way most "real" men would tend to do when a relationship starts to turn toxic, but that is not the case. Instead, I get told how demeaned she feels because in her eyes, I appear to get more enjoyment out of my so-called "box of clothes" rather than seeking a deeper and more intimate relationship with her. But not being a masochist, my willingness to come back for new bouts of derision and/or abuse is decidedly limited.

And it's not as if I haven't tried all of the suggestions some of the others here have made to make my wife feel wanted and appreciated. But my wife also happens to have a very controlling personality, has a tendency to be hyper-critical, is never wrong, and if, out of 10 things I do 9 "right", she will gloss over them and harp on the one thing that I didn't do to her satisfaction.

It seems that in our household, the maximum amount of time that we can bask in the glow of a happy event (e.g. an evening out for dinner, going to a show, celebrating special family occasions etc.) is about 3 days before some long term "issue" that is bothering her bubbles to the surface yet again and we are back off to the races. And these aren't necessarily issues related to my crossdressing - they can any one of my infinite number of other "bad" habits (in her eyes) that we have already sliced, diced, and julienned at her prompting as though they had gone through one of Ron Popeil's Veg-O-Matics. In most cases, these have already been discussed ad nauseum throughout our many years of marriage, but somehow the ability to let go of them and just agree to disagree and move on seems to elude her.

So, do I come across as being self-centered when I gravitate more and more towards my crossdressing and associated activities such as shopping for women's' clothing, going "out and about" en femme increasingly frequently, and looking for validation by having positive interactions with other GG's such as my make up artist, nail salon owner, and friendly SA's - yes, probably. But it's not as if I haven't been pushed in that direction to some degree as well.

I have tried (sometimes with humour) to convince my wife that there are actually benefits to having a crossdressing spouse (love of shopping, ability to coordinate nice looking outfits, make up help, commiserating over ill-fitting bras or uncomfortable shoes etc.). In other words, with a crossdressing husband or SO, a woman - if she can get her mind around it - can actually have a traditional male partner and a "girlfriend" all wrapped up in one. Some of the GG's here seem to be able to embrace that particular mindset, but I gather that they are also in the minority. Certainly my experience reflects that particular reality. So if a wife is so steadfast in her unwillingness to share in an activity that her partner enjoys - even for the sake of his happiness and the greater good of the marriage - is it so wrong for that partner to go it alone?

Some wives become "golf widows" and prefer to wallow in their resentment and self-pity rather than join their partners on the links every summer weekend. Others, with equal indifference to the game initially, take the opposite approach and actually get involved in the sport as a way to reconnect with their partner and spend more quality time with him, thereby actually strengthening their relationship. Shouldn't it be the same with a woman allowing her partner "quality" crossdressing time when she finally realizes just how important it is to her mate? I certainly have done many things with my wife that I have absolutely zero interest in personally (e.g. going to craft shows, attending the Andre Rieu Christmas concerts when they come to town, seeing so many performances of "The Sound of Music" that I can practically recite the score verbatim etc.), so is it so unreasonable to expect a bit of reciprocity?

Sorry if I've blathered on too long on this subject, but as you can see, it is clearly a source of incredible frustration for me...

Still, I do appreciate all of your inputs so far. Identifying a problem is the easy part - finding a workable solution when the answers aren't necessarily clear-cut is a whole different matter. My dilemma is that I still love my wife deep down inside and I'm sure she still does me, as otherwise we wouldn't have made it through these 35+ years of marriage to date. At the end of the day, she is still the mother of my children, and having grown up as an only child and having experienced the trauma of my father committing suicide when I was a young adult and our children were still pre-teens, having a solid family life is exceptionally important to me. But I also can't give up my crossdressing as it is so much a part of me, and to do so would surely lead to a major clinical depression - and that is something which I have no desire to experience, if I can avoid it. It's beginning to sound more and more like the classical case of one person's right to swing their arms ending where the other one's nose begins, and coming to a resolution over whose needs take precedence over the other's ...

[ReineD]

Leslie, my heart goes out to you and your wife. :sad:

Unfortunately, you both are in a "Chinese Finger Trap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_finger_trap)" situation. The instinct is to pull away because you both are hurt, but the only solution is to put your differences aside and move back towards center.

This is extremely difficult to do when both parties feel injured. I say this with kindness, but sometimes I just want to go into people's homes and shake them by the shoulders to try to get them to see that taking a stubborn stance does nothing to move towards resolution. Moreover, adopting this position guarantees unhappiness as it greatly diminishes the quality of life. It is not until after the divorce if there is one that eventually the parties will realize what they had and what they lost. :sad: I speak from personal experience.

The only thing that is required from each of you is simply an attitude adjustment, not changing who you fundamentally are. Compassion. Open-mindedness. Understanding. It is doable if you both are willing.

Can you think of ways you might begin to try to dispel your wife's misconceptions of who you are and what you want? Someone has to start the process.
:love:

[Melinda G]

Beware of Murphys Law. If anything can go wrong, it always does! Count on it!

[Satrana]

Leslie

The dont ask dont tell compromise is always a lousy one that has a good chance of tearing relationships apart. All that happens is resentment builds up on both sides because both parties have essentially agreed to ignore the problem and not resolve it. Long term resentment turns into paranoia and hate and the relationship is doomed.

I don't know how you can get past her unwillingness to let go and move forward. You know your wife best, only you can come up with the right ideas. But the status quo does not work and you are both hurting badly and you know this scenario will be repeated again and again in the future.

Whatever you decide, you need to get rid of the dont ask dont tell stalemate. All it does is forestall the inevitable. For both your sakes move the relationship forward. The obvious paths would be therapy and support groups. If nothing works then you both need to think if there is any value left in the relationship.

[ReineD]

Leslie ... :yt:

[Leslie Langford]

Leslie, my heart goes out to you and your wife. :sad:

Unfortunately, you both are in a "Chinese Finger Trap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_finger_trap)" situation. The instinct is to pull away because you both are hurt, but the only solution is to put your differences aside and move back towards center.

This is extremely difficult to do when both parties feel injured. I say this with kindness, but sometimes I just want to go into people's homes and shake them by the shoulders to try to get them to see that taking a stubborn stance does nothing to move towards resolution. Moreover, adopting this position guarantees unhappiness as it greatly diminishes the quality of life. It is not until after the divorce if there is one that eventually the parties will realize what they had and what they lost. :sad: I speak from personal experience.

The only thing that is required from each of you is simply an attitude adjustment, not changing who you fundamentally are. Compassion. Open-mindedness. Understanding. It is doable if you both are willing.

Can you think of ways you might begin to try to dispel your wife's misconceptions of who you are and what you want? Someone has to start the process.
:love:

...and if I may ask - based on your personal experiences as a GG who has been in relationships with both a CDing and non-CDing males - what aspects of your current crossdressing partner do you find particularly appealing compared with "regular" guys? I could certainly use some concrete, non-threatening examples to present to my wife to help open up her mind a bit.

Right now, the chances of her joining this forum to interact with (and get support from) other GG's in the same situation vary somewhere between zero and nil.

[Andy66]

what aspects of your current crossdressing partner do you find particularly appealing compared with "regular" guys? I could certainly use some concrete, non-threatening examples to present to my wife to help open up her mind a bit.
I keep wanting to try to help, but I don't know what to say. Do you really not get it, or are you just trying to confuse the issues to make yourself look like a victim? Your arguments in favor of crossdressing would be pointless because crossdressing in and of itself is not really the issue, is it? If anything, the problem is the time and money involved.
Not only that, but it's become a control issue.

The more you write, the more it becomes clear that the two of you have been letting a battle (not necessarily over crossdressing) escalate for several years. Now you're both feeling stubborn, suspicious and trapped. Every little thing bothers you both because it's not just one little thing - it's the latest shovel-load in a huge festering manure pile of problems.

I think it may take a professional to dig you out of the rut you've fallen into. A professional once told me that you can't change the other person, but you can change yourself and the way you react.

[EveMarie]

Leslie, you're not alone in this "don't ask, don't tell" kind of situation. I'm sitting here in my new apartment, alone, separated from my wife over the same kind of happening. She wasn't angry or violent in any way, but I know deep down that even though she knew about Evie, and didn't want anything to do with Evie, all was good. But when she did find out I went out for a drink with a GG (strictly platonic, honest) she gave me the "I can't live with you, and I can't live without you" line.

My deepest sympathies for you girl, I can only hope you work it out.

Evie

[jenniferishappy]

Hi Leslie:wave:,
I mentioned this book in another post recently. It is the only one I have ever encountered that gives you a real chance at opening up communication between two people who feel they are not being heard.
'The Power of Two, by Susan Heitler'. A marriage counselor had my wife and I each get a copy and go through the exercises. As feminine as we like to feel, we do not have the brain of a female in the deeper psychological processing areas. Nor vise versa. They are available on Amazon for $5 (not new wives silly, the book:D). Nothing to lose with this. I really wish you luck, but do the work to get moving toward something good and fun. Life is really, really ,reeeeaaaallllyyy short.

[Satrana]

I could certainly use some concrete, non-threatening examples to present to my wife to help open up her mind a bit.

I agree with Anne, this is entirely the wrong approach. There are no advantages to CDing that could ever remotely win over a SO who fears and loathes your feminine persona. This approach does not address her concerns and feelings on the matter. You need to tell her that this issue is seriously disrupting the relationship and it is time to deal with it in a very open, frank manner. And considering how long it has been festering, you best shot would be to involve a third party to ensure to keep the communication is kept focused and does not become acrimonious.

[ReineD]

...and if I may ask - based on your personal experiences as a GG who has been in relationships with both a CDing and non-CDing males - what aspects of your current crossdressing partner do you find particularly appealing compared with "regular" guys? I could certainly use some concrete, non-threatening examples to present to my wife to help open up her mind a bit.

Right now, the chances of her joining this forum to interact with (and get support from) other GG's in the same situation vary somewhere between zero and nil.

You've mentioned quite a few aspects of the benefits of CDing earlier, but this is not the issue. Your wife first needs to believe that you love her and she is a priority in her life. Then she may be able to open her mind up about the CDing. But I suspect the fundamental issues in your marriage have little to do with the CDing.

I don't know why your wife has the attitudes she has, why she feels insecure in your relationship. I don't know which of her buttons get pushed and why. Could you ask her? Might the two of you put aside a discussion of the CDing for now and discuss trust issues, conflict resolution, your individual views on the viability of compromise?

If your wife keeps bringing up old wounds, is it because she has an unforgiving nature or does she feel the old issues have never been resolved? Having a successful marriage is difficult even without the CDing. More often, people move through life having lost the willingness for intimacy because they feel hurt and rather than resolve this they establish a pattern of emotional isolation.

You both need to get to know each other again ... who you both are internally and what you each need and want to give the other. This might be a need to be heard, believed, and respected more than a need to dress or to not see the dressing.

Ask your wife what her issues are and listen to her. Do not judge and do not attempt to justify or defend yourself. Ask her what she needs and see if you can provide this. Hopefully this will help her be more willing to pay attention to what you need. I'm stabbing in the dark here. Maybe the two of you need to do this with the help of a marital counselor.

[Leslie Langford]

...and I guess that sometimes when one is too close to a situation, it becomes hard not to see the forest for the trees.

You have given me much food for thought here, and perhaps also a workable strategy for dealing with the entrenched pattern of unwillingness to compromise that my wife and I seem to have fallen into.

Thank you for your time an effort in providing these valuable insights - they are much appreciated! :love: :hugs:

Leslie