Crossdressing in the 1850's

[NV Susan]

I watched an old western on TV last night. As I watched I was wondering :daydreaming:.....what would it have been like to be a crossdresser in the 1850-70's?.... I think I would want to be a saloon girl :drink:

[Nigella23]

I'm Lol'ing at this, I'm almost certain absolutely everyone in the MTF section would wanna be saloon girls! Oh god, off to look up some pics of old westerns!

[sterling12]

Well, The Reality in The "Old West," goes something like this. Saloon Girl = Prostitute!

Now if that's what you all want, that's fine. You just need to understand that in real life, let's just say in The 1880's, Miss Kitty would have probably been doing a whole lot more than just serving drinks to Marshall Dillon!

"Decent Women," were far removed from that side of town. Saloons were not The Abodes of "Ladies!"

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Lorileah]

Years ago I had a good female friend who underwent "Past lives regression" and she found she was a miner in the Colorado mountains. She told me "I met you there. You were female."
I thought good then she said "You were a prostitute." Ok I'll live with that as it fits my personality. "No you don't understand, you were a 'crib' prostitute." So being a saloon girl would be a promotion for me :)

There is no documentation but I would suspect that there were a lot more CD's back then than we know. They may have even lived as wives to men back then. Good "beard" as they say for gays back then. Childless couple, poor lady barren and all, but they love each other so much he doesn't mind at all.

[docrobbysherry]

Imagine folks in 100 years! What will THEY think about the CDs of today?:brolleyes:

[sherri52]

If the indians caught you they would have deemed you crazy.

[jancsika]

Imagine folks in 100 years! What will THEY think about the CDs of today?:brolleyes:

I was thinking about this last year when I played that game called "Second Life" for the first time, where you basically walk around in a virtual world and do whatever you please. It was free to download and make a character, so of course I immediately made my character a woman and started interacting with people.

I was doing this all in an office for grad students, and what's weird is that when another student walked up and said, "Hey, what's that?" I just showed her the game and how to control my female avatar. To which she replied, "Wow, cool!" and started playing a little bit. After she left I started to wonder what her (and my) reaction would have been if I had been sitting there actually dressed as a woman. Probably a tad more awkward!

So maybe in 100 years someone can start a thread about crossdressing in the 1850s, and everyone can just say, "Cool idea! Let's go check it out..."

[Karren H]

Bustle bustle bustle.....

[Bernadina]

If the indians caught you they would have deemed you crazy.


Sorry no.

Most of the bands looked upon transgenderism as a gift and the crossdresser was someone special. A person of two spirits, one male and one female.

Its just us white religious types that put the stigma on any kind of person who is transgendered.

[jancsika]

Sorry no.

Most of the bands looked upon transgenderism as a gift and the crossdresser was someone special. A person of two spirits, one male and one female.

Its just us white religious types that put the stigma on any kind of person who is transgendered.

Wow, I've never heard that before. Where did you learn that, Bernadina?

[Tip or Ozma]

Most nineteenth-century prostitutes did not outwardly dress any different than other women. The obvious sign might have been loose tresses. Prostitutes did not try to stand out in public like they do today on the "strips." Saloon girls" were basically prostitutes, and probably more of a Hollywood creation--particularly their attire.

Bustles begin to appear after 1870, so Civil War ear women would be wearing cage crinolines and corsets.

It helps to have a wife who is obsessed with nineteenth-century material and social culture.

[trannie T]

The real old west and the Hollywood version are a world apart. Being a 'saloon girl' in the old west would have been a difficult career, especially when you consider the fact that antibiotics had not yet been discovered.

[kym]

Wow, I've never heard that before. Where did you learn that, Bernadina?

its a common thing for native americans to view us as special,shamans were essentially transgendered beings who were held in high esteem.

[Elsa Larson]

Lingard included drag in his quick-change performances.
He is in drag on the covers of some of his published songs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Lingard

[Bernadina]

Wow, I've never heard that before. Where did you learn that, Bernadina?

Here is some information.

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Two-Spirit#encyclopedia

[Sally2005]

I know many old picture shows had crossdressing in them. It would be a great costume though, to look like the hollywood version of the saloon girl.

[lingerieLiz]

Don't know if I was a CD back then guess I would just do what I do now.

It would have been nice to be very rich and able to afford the finest silks. I never have been a fan of cotten underwear.

Last thing I would have wanted to be back then was a dance hall girl. Cowboys didn't take lots of baths.

[jancsika]

Here is some information.

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Two-Spirit#encyclopedia

Thanks for that-- I had never heard about this and it's definitely something I'd like to read more about when I get time.

[windycissy]

Don't know about the 1850's, but I always thought the 1950's would have been the ideal decade:

Gloves were worn, to make our hands look dainty
Girdles were required, to make our shapes look shapely
Nylons, nylons, nylons!

[Persephone]

There is a way to "relive" the 1850's and to figure out if you would have enjoyed it. It is the Reenactment Guild of America and they specialize in events where you dress up for that period with an emphasis on the Old West. You can check them out at http://www.rgamerica.org/data.htm .


Its just us white religious types that put the stigma on any kind of person who is transgendered.

Yeah, Bernadina, the world was just such a wonderful cuddly place, everyone in love with one another and the lion lying with the lamb, until them dumb white male religious nut jobs came along! Sorry, although a popular mythology, it isn't in the least bit accurate.

Yes, there were tribes of Native Americans who did consider the "two souled" as "special." But there were also tribes that sat them barebacked on horses and kept 'em riding until their nuts were cracked. Then they let them go sit with the women.

[Frédérique]

.....what would it have been like to be a crossdresser in the 1850-70's?....

Well, I wouldn’t have wanted to dress like a woman during that period, what with all the uncomfortable hoop skirts, bustles, stiff corsets, and the like, but…

I wouldn’t mind being a boy during 1850-70, because the boys dressed like girls (according to how we see it these days) – a dream come true for us pants-haters! Count me in…:)

It would’ve been much easier for a woman to crossdress during this period in history, simply because of the uncomfortable and intractable female garments of the time (crossdressing would have been a welcome relief). The history books are full of such gender-bending females in the 19th century. Even the late Shelby Foote mentions a crossdressing “secretary” to General Fremont (out in the untamed West) in his The Civil War: A Narrative – you can look it up…

OK, I’ll be Winslow Homer’s female school teacher, or, better yet, one of the shepherdesses that he painted at Houghton Farm – those young ladies had comfy-looking clothes…:battingeyelashes:

Moral: don't rattle the cage of a history buff...:hmph:

[APRIL0401]

I always thought that the long dresses with the petticoats and hats that women wore in the 1890's would be fun to wear.

Watch the musical Hello Dolly and see what I mean.

My highschool did the play Hello Dolly. I should of auditioned for one of the female roles.:daydreaming: The only problems were that I couldn't sing or dance.:twirl:

[RobynP]

Sorry no.

Most of the bands looked upon transgenderism as a gift and the crossdresser was someone special. A person of two spirits, one male and one female.

Its just us white religious types that put the stigma on any kind of person who is transgendered.

Some bands did not see transgenderism as a gift. The Apaches were a bit intolerant and murdered their "two sprited" members. There are non-white non-religious types who did a lot more than just stigmatize the transgendered...

Peace,
Robyn P.

[lavistaa62]

Lest we not forget Deborah Sampson; there's a statue for her in Shirley, MA. I believe she was even honored with a pension and commemorative rifle for her service. If the statue is at all lifelike Deborah certainly pulled off the look. I don't know what her male name was or if she preferred to be identified as a man or just did it so she could serve.

[Kate Simmons]

Hoo boy, to be realistic there were probably more F T M CD's in the old West. It was hard to get a good shave and whiskers weren't too fetching I'd say, let alone permit one to "blend" or "pass" as a woman.:heehee:

[Satin_Lover_13]

Most likely some gun slinger would shoot you.

[Loni]

If the indians caught you they would have deemed you crazy.

Not quite so true, some tribes had at least one cross dresser, (male as female,) and were belived to hold special powers.
But if you are a white eyes male you became a slave or killed.
A woman slave/ wife/ child bearer.

.

[Megan70]

Well, The Reality in The "Old West," goes something like this. Saloon Girl = Prostitute!

Now if that's what you all want, that's fine. You just need to understand that in real life, let's just say in The 1880's, Miss Kitty would have probably been doing a whole lot more than just serving drinks to Marshall Dillon!

"Decent Women," were far removed from that side of town. Saloons were not The Abodes of "Ladies!"

Peace and Love, Joanie


Did someone say..."Saloon Girl?:", well boys the cattle drive just came in from Sadalia and Dodge City is gonna be hopping tonight, gotta get my girls ready"

[NV Susan]

:yt:Wow Megan, you look like you just walked out of the Bucket Of Blood Saloon in Virginia City, Nevada. If your ever in V. C. on the weekend or a holiday many of the men & women dress in 1800's period clothing and party :drink: along "C" Street the main road thru town. I often wondered if any of the "ladies" might be cd'ers. Looks to me like it would be fun....

[Persephone]

Megan,

You look great, girl!


Just go out there and be the best damn little girl you can be honey... walk proud in those big girl shoes.

Love it!

[Butterfly Bill]

Sorry no.

Most of the bands looked upon transgenderism as a gift and the crossdresser was someone special. A person of two spirits, one male and one female.

Its just us white religious types that put the stigma on any kind of person who is transgendered.

Go ogle "berdache" and "two spirit(ed)" to find out more about this.

There is a three volume set called "The Psychology of Sex" written around the turn of the last century by a psychologist named Havelock Ellis. There is a section called "Eonism" (which is what he called crossdressing), and it is filled with vivid and detailed case histories of men who liked frilly petticoats and bloomers and other items of Victorian attire. Copies of it are available on Amazon.