Drawing the Line? Need Opinions

[Sarasometimes]

I have been working with an image consultant for wardrobe advice and deportment lessons for when I CD. She seems to think that I now present as blendable/passable woman until I speak. So I started to research how I might learn to talk more like a lady. Well I got some tips but haven't really tried them.
My theory is that since I am a heterosexual CD who likes to be around women and doesn't want to attract the male eye, just be ignored by them. I think I have a fear or concern that if I try to talk like a woman I may sound like a gay male. I don't want to be viewed that way. Also, maybe I like to CD but since I like being male, mentally I can't commit to the voice changing step.
What do you think? Can anyone else relate. FYI when enmale I have no issues or discomfort around gays.

[Barbara Dugan]

I am curious how does a gay male sound? if you want to talk like a lady I think there is voice therapy and practice, but I know the feeling I don't have a very deep voice and can make a fairly decent female voice but the other day I was dressed really nice and was finishing my makeup at the mirror and got a call from work .I feel very weird talking with my normal voice while dressed

[MiraM]

What does a gay male sound like????

[Sarasometimes]

What does a gay male sound like????

OK maybe I used the wrong term. A falsetto like voice sometimes associated with a flamboyant effeminate male. I really think most understand what i am driving at.

[Karren H]

Well if your already paying her.... What's you image consultant think?

[MiraM]

Sounds like you don't want to be put into a stereotype, but you seem to have no problem stereotyping others.

[Raine]

Watch the WhatTheBuckShow on YouTube if you want to hear a stereotypical gay male sounds like. It's just a stereotype.


Anyway, some voice therapists say it takes at least a year to get a female voice with constant practise...and you might not even pass over the phone. Nonsense to me, but professionals are always so formal and modest.

I learned how to speak in a weird, but passable when dressed, female voice in three weeks. After four months of practise I can pass easily on the phone, which is considered the holy grail of transgender voice achievement.

I'm not in the exact same boat as you. I'm androgyne, identifying both male and female, but I don't believe that matters. What matters is the technique and having harsh critics to judge your voice.

Checkout CandiFLA's videos for voice training on YouTube. That's who I learned everything useful from. After you digest the key how to do it, raising your voice into falsetto, "clenching" your throat into female falsetto, and lowering pitch into a female voice and out of falsetto, the rest is easy. It's hard to explain without audio, but CandiFLA provides plenty.

From there, you just have to practise, strengthen unused muscles in your throat, mimic other girls' speaking mannerisms, record yourself, and get critique. Never strain your voice when practising. Damage to the voice is largely irreversible. If your voice ever hurts while practising, stop immediately.

[Sarasometimes]

NEWS FLASH! Stereotypes exist whether you agree with them or not. Could someone simply answer my question or pass up replying to this post. As far as my image consultant answering my question, she is not a crossdressing male.
I must say that if you want me to feel bad about asking this question you have succeeded and I didn't expect so many critical replies. I guess everyone is game now.

[Brandi Wyne]

This is a great question and a lot of us are like you, wanting to be able to pass the voice test when dressed. I don't have a deep voice but I do have a resonence to it that is hard to override. Another thing that is tough for a lot of us is not having anyone who would be a good, objective and honest critic to practice with. It'd be great to have another CD to learn with.

As for stereotyping and all that crap, just ignore it and remember we all need love and encouragement to pursue our special lives.

Hugs,
Mickey

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Sara

Unfortunately what you are trying to accomplish is VERY difficult. Some folks are very lucky to be able to pick up a "female" voice quickly but most do not.

Also, if you can achieve a truly passable voice, it's best to fundamentally change the way you talk...it is much more than pitch and resonance...its words, its the speed, its the fluidity and up and down pitch most females use that really closes the deal...I have heard many girls that say they have a passable voice and I literally cringe when I hear them...others barely change their voices but they are so natural and comfortable it helps their voice to pass (i am striving for this!!)

i bought a cd to help me, and the ts woman they used to illustrate the exercises was HORRIBLE!!
my voice is not really passable after many months but its getting better

it's also difficult to go back and forth. Again, some folks are very talented in the voice department and can mimic all kinds of voices, but i assume you are not that way and that's why you are asking.

It's good advice to check out youtube to see the girls that have mastered this stuff, its really quite impressive

I hope you can figure it out and perhaps if you practice you may be one of the lucky ones

[Melissa_Z]

Checkout CandiFLA's videos for voice training on YouTube. That's who I learned everything useful from. After you digest the key how to do it, raising your voice into falsetto, "clenching" your throat into female falsetto, and lowering pitch into a female voice and out of falsetto, the rest is easy. It's hard to explain without audio, but CandiFLA provides plenty.



Yeah, her videos are good (so is her voice! Holy cow what a range!). I like your summary of her technique Raine :)


...
I must say that if you want me to feel bad about asking this question...

Ask away I say :) The subjects that are discussed on these boards are frequently sensitive. I'm sure I've stepped in it before (maybe I'm stepping in it now). I think I understand where you came from and where the responders came from. So long as we can all agree that describing a "voice" with a few lines of text is non-trivial ... I should think we can then understand a few slips of the keyboard. Stated differently: "Misunderstandings and neglect occasion more mischief in the world than even malice and wickedness. At all events, the two latter are of less frequent occurrence." Goethe.

Now then .....

It is hard for me to distinguish the ten other things I do to present as femme from using a "femme" voice (what does THAT sound like? Kathleen turner? Fran Drescher? Betty Boop? ;)). It's another thing in the pile of stuff that conveys "femme." It seems to me that there would be benefits to learning a femme voice. I can't think of detriments offhand.

I've often though of trying to get my voice away from my current "Pavarotti" towards something that comports with what I'm presenting. As said above by others though, it takes practice and time. I'm too lazy to make it work (thus far). I say go for it!

Mel ;)

[AllieSF]

I think that your concerns should not be concerns to you. Part of speaking as a female, which I do not practice, though I would like to and should do, is slowing down your speed and learning as others have said here the mannerisms of how women speak. The undesired results that you are trying to avoid, I think can be easily forgotten. Because voice intonations, hand and body movements, and facial expressions are pretty specific to that style of talking. I say, go for it and see what happens. I think that you will be successful with a lot of proctice and as someone said here hard (I read honest) criticism from others. Good luck and by all means do not feel bad that you asked the question.

[sherri52]

Regardless of how others may answer this thread it still takes practice to get the voice right. We do not hear your voice and therefore could not give you a straight answer. A good amount of girls here would like to get the voice right in order to complete thier passing ability.Your consultant knows you dress and certainly knows what a woman sounds like. Her opinion is as good as anyones. She could answer how well you sound when you are ready fo it. There are Speech lessons out there if you want them.
Check out <Mellanie Anne Philips> Transgender speech classes.

[dilane]

Yes, there is a distinct difference between the stereotypical "nellie" gay voice and the stereotypical "ordinary" female voice.

Of course, many gay men do not speak stereotypically, or do so only when having fun with their friends.

The inflections and word choice are similar to the typical female's, but the texture, resonance and agressiveness of the voice have a more masculine quality.

Anyway, back Sara's main point: finding my femme voice was awkward at first -- I had to fight an inner battle with my cultural training to sound like a guy and avoid the effeminate.

In addition, the voice is just part of a coordinated presentation: more animated facial expressions, eye movements, head movement, hand gestures are part of the whole package. A lot of this is built in -- watch how very young boys talk and how expressive they are, before the masculinity ethos takes over. It's a matter of relaxing and letting it out.

Like the Cat Stevens song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W_SGoBFJxs

I was very self-conscious, because it's such a big shift in how I present myself. Once I did the hard work and more-or-less got it, it's easy, and natural, and a confidence builder.

-- Diane

[Fab Karen]

What your coach isn't telling you is that the majority of us don't literally pass. Mostly we are either not noticed or just accepted as part of modern reality.
As long as you don't sound like Darth Vader, or talk like DeNiro in "Taxi Driver" you can do fine with lightening your voice. Falsetto sounds bad and often people can't hear you.
And if someone did read you and ASSUMED you are gay, why would you care?

[Kate Simmons]

It's not how we say things as much as what we say. Think: "The rain in Spain stays mainly on the plain" in a feminine mode and then by George I think you'll have it Hon.:battingeyelashes::)

[docrobbysherry]

there'll be a special CD Image Consultant in EVERY town!:)

Sara, I think it's great that u cared enuff to hire someone to help u do what U WISH TO DO!:thumbsup:

The OTHER girls here support u, TOO! :hugs:

(I think they just got sidetracked temporarily!:brolleyes:)

[sheidelmeidel]

Unless you have a VERY low voice, the pitch isn't really a concern. As others have said, it's about the manner of speaking. Speak gently, politely and softly, not staccato like, keep the volume down, and smile. Listen to how women of your age group and location speak. You may not pass, but you won't stand out either.

[Hope]

The funny thing about the "gay male" comment is that gay men aren't trying to pass as women (not even the drag queens).

Learning to speak like a woman should have nothing to do with sounding "like a gay man..." unless you do something horribly wrong.

As others have pointed out, it is not just pitch, it is intonation, resonance, range, pace, vocabulary and probably a variety of other things.

[Sarasometimes]

Thanks to all who answered my question. I will give it a try and listen to my coaches advice.

[msginaadoll]

Sometimes it may depend on what your blessed or cursed with. I have been frequently mistaken for female on the phone. It use to realy bother me and then I would try to do my manly man Barry White voice. Now sometimes I just try to continue playing the game and let them assume Im female. As people have said it is tone, inflection pitch, volume etc that tends to have people "Stereotype" your voice as male or female. And it is true sometimes we try to be so politically correct that it can go overboard. Heck I know some gay men who will throw out the campy voice when they want to as a joke. and the truth is some people will automatically assume your gay because you crossdress.

[Sally24]

Sounds like you don't want to be put into a stereotype, but you seem to have no problem stereotyping others.
Let's get real. Stereotypes are there because there is alot of truth to them. No, not all gay guys look or act alike but many do fall into the stereotype, most on purpose.