A bit of self analysis

[Ruth]

There is much written here about how we should just enjoy our CDer nature and not try to understand what is behind it. I agree mostly with this and it is indeed mostly what I do. However, all the while there is this small voice inside saying: “What is really going on here? Why am I doing this?”
And in spite of all the advice I do try to make some sense of it. So here are a few thoughts.
First off is the idea that it's just a random desire of mine to dress in women's clothes – no motive, no reason, I just do it. This is not very satisfactory, first because it doesn't get us any further and second because it's generally believed that we always do things for a reason (even if the reason is unknown).
Second is the perversion theory: what I mean by this is, I know it's inappropriate, so I do it just to be perverse. I have difficulty with this because the wearing of the clothes actually feels natural and right, not perverse.
Third we have a refinement of the perversion theory: autogynephilia. I mentioned this before on this forum and it turned out it was a dirty word in some quarters. Anyway, the idea is that somewhere, somehow in my development I got into thinking it was an emotional and/or physical turn-on to appear to be a woman. I can't dismiss this entirely but again it doesn't ring true with the way I feel when I CD.
Fourth we are into more of a transgender area: I have a strong feminine aspect to my personality which seeks outward expression by having me appear in female guise. This one actually works quite well for me, because my time as a fully-realised crossdresser (i.e. Ruth) has had considerable benefits in making me more settled and fulfilled in general, even when I am not presenting as Ruth.
Fifth is the one about me being a woman trapped in a man's body, and needing to manifest as a woman in order to survive. I don't feel strongly that this is me, though I don't rule it out. I have been fully CDing for some years and I am “around 60” but feel no particular pull towards living full time en femme or transitioning. I do sometimes wonder though, whether without my family ties I would just abandon the male persona. Still, that's not a practical consideration.
So there we are. Some of you may find these thoughts helpful. If you have any other theories, please post: I'm open to more ideas. In fact I'd love to hear something different.

[DiannaRose]

Fourth we are into more of a transgender area: I have a strong feminine aspect to my personality which seeks outward expression by having me appear in female guise. This one actually works quite well for me, because my time as a fully-realised crossdresser (i.e. Ruth) has had considerable benefits in making me more settled and fulfilled in general, even when I am not presenting as Ruth.

This is definitely (mostly) me. I have a feminine side that I buried for 40-some-odd years, and she needs to be able to express herself. Even when I'm not outwardly Dianna, I find that when I get to express myself as Dianna (on these forums or my blog, for instance), I am more relaxed, more comfortable, more open. I just feel better as Dianna than I ever did as a man. I also feel like I'm doing the Lord's work for me more effectively, which some people will say is weird because I'm always still just me no matter what, but it ties in with being more relaxed and open.

But I definitely think there are as many reasons for crossdressing as there are crossdressers! :)

[Kate Simmons]

Another aspect is spitiruality Ruth. This can be a vehicle for getting us in touch with all of our feelings to become a full spectrum person. Once that is accomplished how we discharge those feelings is just a matter of choice and formality.:)

[Christina2008]

This is a very interesting point, which I have thought about many times... ... why do I do it?
Doesn't every everyone else in the world crossdress?, is this just normal and the only difference is we are the ones who decide to talk about it? If not then what makes us different. I like the spirituality idea. We can experience both male and female experiences in the same lifetime. Therefore does this make us weird or blessed?
From my own personal stand point, the more different experiences we have the better :)

[linnea]

Ruth, thank you so much for expressing your various thoughts about why you crossdress. Significant to me is that I have had similar thoughts that have included much of the list that you presented. I'm 63 and probably have some of the same socio-cultural background and influences as you.
I have often thought about taking on a permanent feminine presentation (if my family were not present), but as you have said, that is not a practical consideration.
I do think that there may be some validity to the notion of re-unification as suggested in the Judeo-Christian mythos of creation and expulsion: i.e., Adam was divided to create Eve, his counterpart; they were disobedient and expelled from Paradise; to re-gain Paradise they must be re-unified to that perfect state of wholeness (not maleness) that obtained prior to Eve's manifestation from Adam's rib. This is pretty far-fetched I supposed, but it was a common idea among medieval alchemists as evidenced by some of their drawings and writings.
Right now, though, I'm just happy for the opportunities to crossdress and express myself en femme.

[Stephenie S]

Want to know MY point of view? Probably not, but I'm gonna give it anyway.

Wondering WHY is a MALE attribute. It's one of the things MEN do. That's how men FIX things. You have to wonder about how things work and why it's not working to be able to fix something. There is page after page on this forum wondering WHY people crossdress. Why? What causes it? When did it start? How did it start? Why did it start?

This makes perfect sense here. This is primarily a forum for men who want to wear women's clothes.

Most women don't seem to care much WHY something works. When I get into my car, I want to turn the key and have it start. If it doesn't, I want to call Frank at the garage and have him fix it. IMHO, women tend to FEEL more. They tend to just enjoy something and if it doesn't work, they move on to something that does work (like hubby's car).

I think wondering why is often just a waste of valuable time. Don't worry too much about why or how. Just enjoy your life. It's not that long, you know.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[Frédérique]

First off is the idea that it's just a random desire of mine to dress in women's clothes – no motive, no reason, I just do it.

I just do it, but it’s not random. The act of dressing is a deliberate lifestyle choice, but read on…


Second is the perversion theory: what I mean by this is, I know it's inappropriate, so I do it just to be perverse.

I had to be told that transvestism* is a perversion. Who says? Why listen? I’m also an artist, and art is considered by some to be a perversion. That makes me doubly perverted. I proudly wear my perversions like merit badges, and I’m going to pick up a few more as I go along through life…:hmph:
*Because you're from the UK, Ruth, I'll say transvestism rather than crossdressing...


Third we have a refinement of the perversion theory: autogynephilia.

Well, if love doesn’t come from the outside, it must come from within. I don’t love my femme self too much, mind you, but I’m comfortable with myself, ultimately being responsible for my own mental well-being – I do whatever it takes, therefore I crossdress to feel good. It’s all about pleasure, as far as I’m concerned, but I do not become aroused at the thought (or sight) of myself as a woman, even though the obsession or compulsion to dress is quite strong. BTW, this is the second time today that I came across the word “Autogynephilia” – once on TV (Jeopardy), and here, in this well-written thread.


Fourth we are into more of a transgender area: I have a strong feminine aspect to my personality which seeks outward expression by having me appear in female guise.

I have a strong feminine aspect to my personality as well, struggling to break free of the male containment suit that was placed over me during childhood. I’m a male, it’s true, but I can remove as many layers as possible to reveal the hidden femininity. We wear masks in real life, but as soon as we put on a little makeup we see our true selves…:battingeyelashes:


Fifth is the one about me being a woman trapped in a man's body, and needing to manifest as a woman in order to survive.

I need femininity to survive, but this is what I have to work with, so I’ll try to make a go of it somehow…

[Ruth]

Stephenie, you are so right about this wondering and analysis being a male thing, but then, although I didn't mention it in my post, I'm a man - well, I'm biologically male and psychologically I'm probably at least 50 per cent male: so a lot of my stuff comes out of male-driven thought processes.
I think that in all this transgender area that we have moved into, we can't escape the fact that we started out male and this dictates a lot of the ways we do things.
I am reminded of a scene from a very good documentary on crossdresing that was on UK television a while back. It was presented by Grayson Perry, who is well known as a CDer in the UK. He was talking to a pre-op transsexual and his comment after the interview was quite critical. To paraphrase his words, gender reassignment surgery is a very masculine way to treat the transgender situation: we are basically lifting up the hood and tinkering around underneath, trying to fix it in a mechanistic fashion. To put it crudely, once you've got the plumbing right, the resulting individual is a woman.
Now I'm far too cautious to wholeheartedly support that viewpoint on this forum, but I think what we should take from it is that it pays to be aware of where our ideas are coming from. We didn't just start out as a blank slate.

[TJ Tresa]

Ruth thank you for this post. I to have wondered as to the why, however I have come to the conclussion that I just love the feel of the clothes. Since my wife understands and supports this side of me I dress while at home almost al the time. Except from a close gay girlfriend no body else knows about Tresa. and that is the way my wife wants to keep it. So I am free to wear anything at home but have to change into my male self before going out.
I no longer have the thrill of sneaking around and trying not to get caught by her, and I'm free to just relax and be me. I find this more satisfying than before. I still don't fully understand as to why i do it. But I do know I am more comfortable when dress enfem than when I'm dressed as a guy.
I give up on the preverted aspect a long time ago. However I don't think our family and friends have so we keep it secret.
Tahnk you again.

[Stephanie Heplby]

Wondering WHY is a MALE attribute. It's one of the things MEN do.

[...]

Most women don't seem to care much WHY something works.

Sorry Stephanie, but generations of female scientists would beg to differ with you.

Barbara McClintock obviously cared deeply about why things work, hence her ground-breaking work on cytogenetics (Nobel Prize 1983).

Wikipedia entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_McClintock

Not to mention the first double Nobel laureate Marie Skłodowska-Curie or the 17th Century physicist Lady Margaret Cavendish (Duchess of Newcastle). (I could, obviously, go on.)

Further, the legions of feminist authors who have written on the hows and whys of women in science and technology would also disagree:

Evelyn Fox Keller (who wrote about McClintock)
Londa Schiebinger
Sharon Traweek
Donna Jean Haraway
Ruth Cowan Schwartz
Judith Wajcman (current president of the Society for the Social Studies of Science)
etc... (Again, I could go on.)

We are falling prey to dualisms established in the Enlightenment.

We are not either masculine or feminine. We are not rational or emotional.

Such simple polarities are wrong.

Find the spectrum.

Please return to your irregularly scheduled broadcast.

[Karren H]

Lucky for me I'm hard of hearing so if there is a small voice.. A coworker asked me today "how you doing". I replied "I'm just so happy..... Ignorant and happy".. Sometimes you don't want to know the answers even if there were some..

"Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise.". Thomas Gary....

[Stephenie S]

Well I didn't say ALL women, and I didn't mean to impune the many women scientists out there who DO wonder why and how things work. I was not trying to make an absolute, only a generalization. Perhaps that many women don't seem to wonder why is NOT a factor of nature, only a factor of nurture.

Still, when I turn the key, I want to darn thing to start!

Lovies,
Stephenie

[Frédérique]

I'm probably at least 50 per cent male: so a lot of my stuff comes out of male-driven thought processes.
I think that in all this transgender area that we have moved into, we can't escape the fact that we started out male and this dictates a lot of the ways we do things.
I am reminded of a scene from a very good documentary on crossdresing that was on UK television a while back. It was presented by Grayson Perry, who is well known as a CDer in the UK.

"Male-driven thought processes" sounds a bit like an oxymoron, n’est-ce pas? I kid the males because I happen to be one of them – it’s my way of coping with this innate disappointment…

I know all about Grayson Perry, Ruth – you should have mentioned that he’s a fine artist who uses pottery as a medium. His femme persona Claire shows up at receptions and exhibitions, and I must say I find his transvested self to be more interesting than his pots, but I’m predisposed to feel that way. I think his eccentricity (in the eyes of others) helps his notoriety, making him stand out among a sea of drabness, but it’s all about having style. I like Grayson, or more specifically Claire, the “social critic from Hell”…


We didn't just start out as a blank slate.

In many ways we did, but in other ways we didn’t. The fact I was born a GB was nurtured along by my family, since I was preceded by two sisters. They wanted a boy, they got a boy, so he’s going to BE a boy, period. The sensibilities I was born with went against this boyishness, so it was up to me to nurture my own feminine proclivities – why I began to do this is anyone’s guess, but I’m going to say I didn’t like the situation I found myself in. Just like you can scrape away unsuccessful parts of a painting and start over, you can also remove areas of your personality that don’t make sense, based on the persona you would be more comfortable with. In this way, you can be a blank slate – just keep the eraser handy and don’t run out of chalk.

In one area, we did start out as a blank slate, since all of the opinions, beliefs, accepted ways of looking at things, spurious issues, hatreds, intolerance, prejudices, unhappiness, falsehoods, accepted behavior, expectations, and ridiculous ideas have either been told to us or impressed upon us since day one – we weren’t born with this stuff. Luckily, I was born with a HARD head…:hmph:

[Rachel Morley]

Ruth .... you're my kind of gal :hugs: A lot of what you wrote is very much how I feel about myself, especially:

"I have a strong feminine aspect to my personality which seeks outward expression by having me appear in female guise."

.... and also

"I feel no particular pull towards living full time en femme or transitioning. I do sometimes wonder though, whether without my family ties (and work ties for me) I would just abandon the male persona."

[linnea]

Sorry Stephanie, but generations of female scientists would beg to differ with you.

Barbara McClintock obviously cared deeply about why things work, hence her ground-breaking work on cytogenetics (Nobel Prize 1983).

Wikipedia entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_McClintock

Not to mention the first double Nobel laureate Marie Skłodowska-Curie or the 17th Century physicist Lady Margaret Cavendish (Duchess of Newcastle). (I could, obviously, go on.)

Further, the legions of feminist authors who have written on the hows and whys of women in science and technology would also disagree:

Evelyn Fox Keller (who wrote about McClintock)
Londa Schiebinger
Sharon Traweek
Donna Jean Haraway
Ruth Cowan Schwartz
Judith Wajcman (current president of the Society for the Social Studies of Science)
etc... (Again, I could go on.)

We are falling prey to dualisms established in the Enlightenment.

We are not either masculine or feminine. We are not rational or emotional.

Such simple polarities are wrong.

Find the spectrum.

Please return to your irregularly scheduled broadcast.

Such constructed categories precede even the Enlightenment, but you're right that these ways of organizing, especially in a bifurcated way, are arbitrary, sometimes convenient, but seldom definitive.

[Presh GG]

Thank you Ruth for a very enlightening thread. I find this fascinating !

Now Stephanie, you had best quit digging yourself deeper, admit you made a serious blunder and stop that nonsense talk while you're ahead. :doh:

springtime GG

[sherri]

I am reminded of a scene from a very good documentary on crossdresing that was on UK television a while back. It was presented by Grayson Perry, who is well known as a CDer in the UK. He was talking to a pre-op transsexual and his comment after the interview was quite critical. To paraphrase his words, gender reassignment surgery is a very masculine way to treat the transgender situation: we are basically lifting up the hood and tinkering around underneath, trying to fix it in a mechanistic fashion. To put it crudely, once you've got the plumbing right, the resulting individual is a woman.That's a really interesting idea, one that I don't think I've heard before. I do have to comment that it seems equally male to me to reject rather vigorously and primordially any notion of even allowing a sharp object anywhere near "the boys". :) And too, when it comes to "fixing" one's body, by and large it's the GGs who are paying for all those McMansions the plastic surgeons are living in, so I'm not sure the proclivity is restricted to one gender.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

so if a TS woman is mtf, they are handling it in "male" way???

ok...so what are TS men doing??

[chrissie-h]

We can analyse these things to the n'th degree, and I'm sure there is a lot to be taken from the many theories about why we do it. But for me it comes down to two things:
1) Didn't someone once say that the forbidden fruits are always the tastiest?
2) ... and as far as I'm concerned, we all look so much better in girl mode than we do on boy.

That just about sums it up for me! And that's why I know I'll never stop:daydreaming:, despite trying to do so many times.

[Molly Wells]

I sometimes think we think too much sometimes.

Molly

[jenna_woods]

very well said, it sure is hard to understand,I don't all the way but am enjoying it.

[CherylFlint]

The way I see it, is that we're all ALPHABET SOUP, although in our case our alphabet consists of just two letters, X and Y.
Everyone has variation in the ratios of the two letters, which makes everyone just a little bit different. Everyone has a little bit different DNA, so everyone has a little bit different chromosomes.
And that's where we come into the blueprint of life.
All of us humans share a number of packets of DNA. Remember LUCY, that 40,000 year old fossil? All of us share some of her DNA, believe it or not.
And throughout the thousands of reproductions through thousand of years, everything doesn't come out perfect textbook, so they say. Me, and you, and the rest of us on this blog, just happen to share a ratio of X and Y chromosomes that make us the way we are.
And that's ALL there is to it.

[busker]

I'm with you Ruth. Just because we have no answer to your question now, doesn't mean that it isn't worth asking. Hiding our collective heads in the sand is futile. The answer will out! I'm glad that my doctor didn't say to me , "we don't know why you have cancer, it isn't important, just enjoy it and be yourself." I wouldn't be here now. I don't believe in the religious angle either for any number of reasons. I do think, as I've stated in other threads, that chemistry (nature) and psychology will take the larger responsibility, and some will go to nuture. I think it is human nature to question our existence and our nature. Any child born with a deformity will surely spend part of its life wondering "why me?" and to no avail.--but perhaps someday.
Your first 3 arguments are psychological in nature, the last 2 chemical and or psychological.
Most of all I read on the forum are things which pertain to psychology. Things like feminine, and nuture/nature with an occasional inquiry as to whether someone might not be a TS (chemincal/biological). Man will never be woman by virtue of anatomy, no matter what a surgeon is able to do. And mentally, there is no question but they think very often, much different from men. And, women are universally the same anatomically no matter where they are born.
Feminity is another kettle of fish entirely. That is cultural and what passes (forgive the pun) for feminine in the UK will not necessarily pass in Bali, Formosa or Auckland. I have asked elsewhere on the formum if CDing is universal. If it isn't , then some element certainly points to psychology. Do Eskimeaux do it? Mongolians? Do the men in Afghanastan really want ot wear a burqa?
There is also the question of the wives and So's that acept this thing from their men. They have issues and it can ONLY be psychological in the answer department. There is no excuse for them to say, I was born this way, and I accept it. Accepting their men as CDs can only be arrived at by conscious decision.
Some claim to have begun CDing as early as 4 years old. I personally question that as a conscious decision on their part. It may very well be "copycat". At 12 or so, it is very likely puberty (chemical and psychological)--my own explanation for being a CD. There are many more possible reasons like trying to attract an absent father ,consciously or otherwise, direct competition with the mother, (consicously or otherwise) substitute sister, etc. Fethish dressers are another issue .
I also have questions about "feminine"? what exactly is that? Dressing and going out is not exclusively feminine. Acting feminine based on what model? I have known a number of women worse than my former drill sargeant. What are femininity attributes? Certainly not cooking and sewing? some of the greatest chefs are men and of course, many fashion designers are males.
I'm an at- home dresser, minimally. While there may be notions of "ease and comfort" when dressed, that could be self-induced rationale.I have no desire to strut my stuff and if I did, what would I be trying to do? If I'm a male, dressed as a woman, what exactly is feminine about that? and who am I trying to attract? If I say I just want to have a good time, can't that be had as a male? Without belaboring this too much, the answers to all the questions seem to be in the realm of psychology. Freud may be discredited in today's world but that could be a bias to discredit him. The church certainly tried to convince us that the world was flat and the center of the universe. That was their bias to control the mob.
Memory isn't always reliable and can sometimes be a downright liar. So we must proceed with caution, but the process is still worthwhile. Thanks for bringing up this very important topic.

[Satrana]

Wondering WHY is a MALE attribute.
That is sexist claptrap.

You fall prey, as others do, to the notion that masculine and feminine are real tangible entities when in fact they are artificial concepts that exist only within the confines of social values. All behaviors are human and are spread throughout the population but are subsequently shaped by our environmental upbringing. We all wonder WHY, we all FEEL but our gender conformity means we inhibit our behavior and delude ourselves about our true personality [/quote]


I think wondering why is often just a waste of valuable time. Valuable time to do what? Watch TV?, go shopping? What could prove more valuable than understanding yourself and others? Is your life so busy that you cannot devote a fraction of it to comprehend and appreciate what makes you tick?

Just because something requires effort should not be a reason to avoid doing it.

[Satrana]

Wondering WHY is a MALE attribute.
That is sexist claptrap.

You fall prey, as others do, to the notion that masculine and feminine are real tangible entities when in fact they are artificial concepts that exist only within the confines of social values. All behaviors are human and are spread throughout the population but are subsequently shaped by our environmental upbringing. We all wonder WHY, we all FEEL but our gender conformity means we inhibit our behavior and delude ourselves about our true personality [/quote]


I think wondering why is often just a waste of valuable time. Valuable time to do what? Watch TV?, go shopping? What could prove more valuable than understanding yourself and others? Is your life so busy that you cannot devote a fraction of it to comprehend and appreciate what makes you tick?

Just because something requires effort should not be a reason to avoid doing it.

[docrobbysherry]

Everyone else can see that we're free to go.
Only we can imagine we see the walls of the unique boxes we're all stuck in!:sad:

[Jodi M]

Cherylflint, I have always leaned towards the same theory that you just put forth. It seems like the most plausable explanation.

[unclejoann]

All of us humans share a number of packets of DNA. Remember LUCY, that 40,000 year old fossil? All of us share some of her DNA, believe it or not.

Lucy was a crossdresser? Cool.

[Frédérique]

OK, I have my aluminum hat on -- are you sure I'm a lady? :heehee:


I'm glad that my doctor didn't say to me , "we don't know why you have cancer, it isn't important, just enjoy it and be yourself." I wouldn't be here now.

When I first read this I thought you were equating cancer with crossdressing, i.e. one disease to another, but now I can see the point you’re trying to make. Go in peace, my dear…:Peace:


Do the men in Afghanastan really want ot wear a burqa?

I wonder if anyone will bother to ask a native male of Afghanistan this very question? There’s no time like the present, since there are plenty of us among the populace – surely someone can take time off from their occupation duties and talk to a citizen about local customs? Maybe we aren’t supposed to communicate with people in other countries, I mean in terms of getting to know each other better. Hmmm…I think I’m starting to understand our foreign policy…:thinking:


If I'm a male, dressed as a woman, what exactly is feminine about that? and who am I trying to attract?

The first question would require a huge answer, and lots of space, but the simple reply is to say, “Whatever you wish it to be.” Who are you trying to attract? How about those parts of your personality that need to come forward? You know, put a name on them, bring them to the surface, and cover up your unsightly maleness? I’m guessing you’re shaking your head reading this (if you’re reading this – it’s OK, I’m used to being ignored), because I’m picking up a resistance to normal crossdressing “thinking” from your pile of text, correct? That’s OK – you’ll never get a straight answer here, simply because there isn’t one. Come, play our Reindeer Games…:Poke: