OK Alice where do we go from here?

[SuzanneBender]

Girls I am about to give up my hard earned reputation on this site as a well put together TG gal.

I thought I had the answer but lately the pink fog is really starting to overtake my life. I find the threads concerning crossdresser vs. transsexuals very interesting because I can't tell you where I belong on the spectrum, but I feel that I am sliding down the rabbit hole with a TS Alice.

I hid being transgendered for years from a wonderful and supportive wife. She has accepted the dressing as a part of the man she loves, but early on we set some boundaries. The most important boundary being that if it went farther than dressing we wouldn't be married. For the past couple of years I was satisfied with this arrangement. Then came SCC and I met some incredible ladies there that had transitioned and were leading wonderful lives and were wonderful parents despite all of the challenges. A flood of feelings and regrets overwhelmed me as well as the nagging knowledge that there could be more. Now being Suzanne part time doesn't feel right.

More and more I feel like I am crossdressed when in Male mode. When I was young I went to bed every night wishing and praying that I would wake up female. I now find myself going to bed with those same wishes and I feel so guilty like I am letting my wife and my kids down.

I posted a couple of days ago about my wife coming home and finding me sick with the flu and dressed. She said she wasn't upset but last night it spawned the question from her, "do you want more?” I spoke from the heart and told her yes, but I am not sure at what cost. Being the wonderful woman she is she gave me a big hug with tears in her eyes and said she will always be there for me either as a wife or a friend. All I could do is hug her back and tell her that I will always love her no matter what should become of us and that I will not make any decisions without lots of reflection and discussion.

I shared this with my therapist this morning and she told me that I have some tough decisions ahead of me. I am paying a $150.00 and hour for advice like that? Where was the "go for it girl" or "are you nuts"? I am a psychologist and although I am not a clinician I do understand that counseling consists of lots of little steps of guided self discovery, but there are times that I feel I would be better off with a magic eight ball.

I am not sure what I am asking for here. I guess I just needed to vent to others that have or may be wrestling with the same issues and maybe I am just looking for a cyber hug or two as I wrestle with this. I wouldn't trade who I am for anything, but sometimes I have to wonder why God picked girls like us to carry burdens like this.

[DiannaRose]

:hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs:

Suzanne, we love you. You know that. I wish there was a simple button-press answer for why God brings us through the fire, but there never is. The thing I always have to remind myself is that He brings us through the fire, not just into it.

I strongly suspect I'm going to find myself in your boat sooner than I'd like. It sucks not knowing how things are going to turn out if we choose X vs. Y, but we just never know. My wife calls it "unknowable consequences"...you make a choice, saying "I can and will accept the consequences", but then find the consequences so much worse than you ever thought they could be. I think a lot of us here can relate.

No answers here, just lots of sympathy, lots of hugs and lots of prayers. Please keep us posted, and if you need a private ear, I have two of them. :)

[KateW]

I honestly don't see it as a burden but a blessing. We get to experience both sides of the coin that many never explore.

Regarding your actual issue though, it really depends on if you feel more strongly about your gender or your marriage.

I have also considered Gender Reassignment Surgery (and facial feminization), but ultimately, I think I have a pretty good deal right now. I can dress whenever I want and have my wife right there to support me. Also, I think my man parts ultimately come of more use to me as I am attracted to women. I think your therapist is right though... this really is your decision as they are undoubtedly two of the most important things in your life.

[Karren H]

Hell I'd charge a whole lot less and would tell you what you want to hear! But ya got to do what ya got to do.. Just as long as you don't become one of those "superior" beings..... And come back and tell us what to do! Lol.

[Ugly Michele]

Know the feeling hope you work this out just agree with Karen.

[sherri52]

It's your inner self that is going to answer your question. Whatever the outcome we will be there to support you.

[ikatrina]

It sounds like an incredible dilemma but I think in the end your soul will just know what your destiny is.

One comment that I recently read that brought it in to perspective for me was (in paraphrase)....you have to need/want it bad enough to accept the possibility of losing everything you have in your current life...family, friends, economic status, employment etc. etc. etc. Tough words, but it makes some sense.

Regardless of what path you choose to pursue I don't think you'll have any shortage of support and virtual hugs from everyone here.

[SuzanneBender]

Hell I'd charge a whole lot less and would tell you what you want to hear! But ya got to do what ya got to do.. Just as long as you don't become one of those "superior" beings..... And come back and tell us what to do! Lol.

Please dear. I will always be me. I am a Chiefs and Cubbies fan. There is no way I can ever consider myself superior.

[Tara_G]

I also went through this recently as I lost my job as a high tech engineering manager and felt it was an opportunity to change careers and go for something that would allow me to work more as my feminine self (long hair,pierced ears, etc.). I thought that I really, really wanted to take the next step so I researched HRT and all the other things that would be required. I came to the conclusion that I missed the boat and that at this point in my life I would not be willing to do all the things necessary.

I recommend doing a lot of research before making any decisions and you may find yourself in a similar situation.

:hugs:

[Fab Karen]

I shared this with my therapist this morning and she told me that I have some tough decisions ahead of me. I am paying a $150.00 and hour for advice like that? Where was the "go for it girl" or "are you nuts"? I am a psychologist and although I am not a clinician I do understand that counseling consists of lots of little steps of guided self discovery, but there are times that I feel I would be better off with a magic eight ball.
The therapist can't decide FOR YOU. You've got to weigh it carefully, and with deep reflection see if it's what you TRULY want ( fantasies of the mind are not always the same as the reality ). And ask some TS's about what they go through to help with your decision.

[Kate Simmons]

You answered your own question Suzanne, it's because we are who we are and there is a reason we are who we are.:)

[Sherry-Stephanie]

Suzanne says...


I am a Chiefs and Cubbies fan.


Well there....that's your problem!!!! Look who your rooting for?????

That will be $59.95 + tax....

Stephanie

[Lorileah]

Can I vote for "mid-life crisis?"

As with most the people here I have varied from time to time as what exactly I am. In the 70's I was just crazy according to most psychology texts. The years of the sexual revolution and I couldn't even pick a side to fight on.

Early 80's was I gay was I straight was I just crazy (still?) but then came college and a "Psy" course on Human sexuality ( I though maybe it was a chance to see naked women...was I wrong on that) and a professor who told me it was OK to be you. That the world wasn't black and white. So then I thought maybe I am transsexual. Looked into what I could find then, didn't like the look of the surgery, so I guess I wasn't really trans.

Settled into whoever I am now. Comfortable with the clothes, the ability to change my look when I like and being a guy physically (always) and a girl mentally (sometimes). And as stated above, I am too old to change that now (yes I know it can still be done but I have some mental things that deal with gender and age that I cannot get past).

So what I am saying is take some time on this. When we all reach mid-life we start to consider the what ifs of life. Things that you think my "be" may not be. I know that many people trans later in life, for many reasons, like life is getting short and you always wanted to, you now have the money to do it, your children have grown. All good reasons. But, and this is my own opinion and nothing else, you should trans if you always thought you were in the wrong body, not that you have decided that things are now getting stronger. You know if you had those feelings your whole life. Just make sure this isn't a gee I'd think I should try that.

and don't get he sports car,it looks silly when you drive a Ferrari at 35 down mainstreet.

[Nigella23]

I'm new round these parts, but have already discovered that you post intelligent, well informed, and caring posts. Obviously we don't know eachother, and likely never will, but I just wanted to say :hugs:
Whatever you decide, it will be right for you, because of the qualitities you have as a human being. :hugs:

I read this on your posts, and smile inside.

"See yourself as a soul with a body rather than a body with a soul." Dr. Wayne Dyer

[trannie T]

Seems like you have some tough decisions ahead of you. A Magic 8 Ball or a therapist can not make them for you. What may seem to be the easiest questions are often the hardest, such as:
Who am I?
Where did I come from?
Where am I now?
Where am I going?

Give it some serious thought, talk with your therapist, your spouse and with whatever spiritual advisor you may have.

[sherri]

Rereading your post again carefully, I don't see you actually asking for advice. Nevertheless, you are approaching a monumental crossroads and I would urge you to take lots of deep, deep breaths and sloooowww down. I mean, you yourself referred to what you're feeling as pink fog. Give this thing six months and see how you feel about it then, before you go stepping off any cliffs. And if I were you, I'd reread Lorileigh's last paragraph a few times. There's really no downside to taking your time with this thing -- it's not like you have some kind of deadline or anything.


I am a psychologist and although I am not a clinician I do understand that counseling consists of lots of little steps of guided self discovery, but there are times that I feel I would be better off with a magic eight ball. This was hilarious, btw. :D

[JennaR]

All good advice, but my 2 cents worth is: Like myself and most of us on the post, you have a male mind, like it or not you make decisions based on what's good for you first, if we weren’t wired that way we as a species could never have survived (this far anyway) In general (not everyone) women are wired to trust your judgment. You know this, and make a choices based on pleasing her. Again, not everyone (and not us because we like to drift from gender to gender) but, I have to wonder how many guys would accept his wife saying "hey I never told you this but I like to dress in guy mode and... I wonder how acceptable that would be. Yet our SO trust our judgment and hopefully we make good decisions. Besides all that, there are children who didn't ask to come to the party so what ever you decide needs to wait until they are up and out. We made that decision and for me, one of the best I ever made. You can change the wrapper but it doesn’t change what’s inside

Just my opinion though

[Vicki-Z]

Hi Suzanne,

My heart really goes out to you girl.


"When I was young I went to bed every night wishing and praying that I would wake up female. I now find myself going to bed with those same wishes"

I understand your feelings as a child I also prayed and wished every night that I would wake up in the morning as a girl and I still do.

"I hid being transgendered for years from a wonderful and supportive wife. She has accepted the dressing as a part of the man she loves,"

"Being the wonderful woman she is she gave me a big hug with tears in her eyes and said she will always be there for me either as a wife or a friend."

From what you say you have a wonderful wife who has accepted your feminine side up to this point. For her to say that she will always be there for you either as a wife or friend is amazing.

I have to agree with Lorileah make sure this is not just a mid-life crisis. Because mid-lifes crisises can destroy great relationships. A year ago my wife had an affair with an old high school boyfriend which I feel was mainly because of her mid-life crisis. She decided she wanted more out of life. This destroyed me and started my own mid-life crisis. I'm now feel that life has also past me by and that I should have transitioned back when I was much younger before I got married. I'm realizing now that I've always been much more female inside than male and that I would have been much happier in my life if I would have transitioned.

However, like Lorileah I'm at an age now that it's not pratical for me to transition. I have been married to my wife for more than 25 years and I have always loved her more than anything in my life. She is not nearly as supportive as your wife but she is trying. I also have 2 children who I love very much. The three of them mean the world to me. I could not do anything as drastic as transitioning at this point in my life. In many ways transitioning would be much better for me personally. It would fulfill who I really am inside and give me peace of mind, but the consequences are too great.

What I am really trying to tell you is that I understand your feelings and how you feel torn apart inside. I cannot tell you what is right for you, only you can decide that. Just do a lot of deep soul searching and don't make any hasty decisions. Consider your wife and any children you might have and how your decision will affect them.

If you ever need someone to talk to you can always PM me.


Vicki :hugs:


PS. Please excuse I am having problem getting the quotes to show up proper.

[rayander01]

I'm new here too so all i can add is, we all hope you can come to terms with your problem and it works out for you. We are here if you need us. Please keep us abreast of what's going on as we are all concerned.

Rey
.

[Angie G]

Suzanne I don't envy you life at this moment. I can only imagine what you going through.Whatever you chose to do I wish you all the best.I Sorry I can't help other them be here for you. your wife is an extraordinary woman. You one lucky person. May God be with you in you choices. I think you need more then just a hug dear so here is some love to go with it.:love::hugs::hugs:
Angie

[Rebecca Jayne]

"Please dear. I will always be me. I am a Chiefs and Cubbies fan. There is no way I can ever consider myself superior."

Is your shrink on the payroll of those sports franchises?

Sounds like you need a vacation by yourself to do some soul searching, good mountain air or better yet cruise ship air.
The choices you make are ones you live with , make sure you are committed to the results they will bring and you can live with the outcome.

[dilane]

Hi Suzanne,

Yes, lots more fun to be a girl. I've had similar feelings for many years.

Here are some of the things I have asked myself when exploring this issue(with some answers):

1. If I transitioned, but were usually taken as a tranny (ie, mostly not passing) would I be happier than I am now? Answer: No! So for me, I'd need to pass really well (which is doable with some minor work for me). You have a nice face and a non-bulky body, so you'd probably do fine.

2. Can you chat up a woman and not be read? This is a big one for me (men are easy :). Only important if you want to blend in as opposed to be known as a T-girl by all.

3. Do I know what it's like to live as a woman?
Answer: Kind of -- I've done most routine things in life en femme, shopping, car repair, jury duty, dancing & dance lessons, clubbing in the straight world, exercising, doing the things I like to do. So I have a semi-RLT due to 10+ years out and about 1-2 days a week.

4. Could I find work as a woman in my field? (If you're a tenured professor you've got it made, but most of us don't). I'd need all of my references to cooperate for a few years.

5. Are your kids old enough not to be embarassed or traumatized by losing their father? Maybe just a coincidence, but one friend's teenaged daughter fell apart with suicide attempts & drugs after the transition, and the son has a very strained relationship 5 years later.

6. Would your wife leave you (or would you want to be single and start dating men?) and would the aftereffects of that shift leave you with a clean conscience?

7. Knowing all the stresses and difficulties you'd encounter (and this is just a small list), would it be a net plus for you?

-- Diane

[DanaR]

I went through a similar dilemma about ten years ago and realized that I didn't want to give my wife, life, marriage and kids. Our kids are out on their own, and they all know about me with differing levels of acceptance; but I know that I wouldn't be able to have much of a relationship with my granddaughter.

My wife has been very understanding and supportive of me. I realize that life isn't always fair, and if I were to make some of these changes, life would now be totally unfair to my wife; I just couldn't do that to her. We have been together since we were teenagers and have been through a lot together. She has know about me for over thirty years.

[Samantha Girl]

Never know what to say so... Good luck :)

[jandebs]

Are the only two options right now: flip cards with the queen of hearts and end your marriage, or hang in there and wrestle with it?

It's just a story. In real life the rabbit hole never ends. Right now you're peering at the end, or looking for it, just as I am. How far do I have to go to resolve my crazy, charmingly screwed up self?

I played in a band behind a post op vocalist a few years back. She had a soprano voice, fabulous skin. Intelligent, witty, and stunningly attractive, she fretted endlessly over telling her lovely boyfriend of her genetic past. They'd slept together, were in each other's pockets, in love. It never occurred to him that she might be anything other than female. And despite this full immersion into womanhood she still defined her identity as transsexual. She was proud of it, and in a nice way.

Whether we venture out en femme occasionally, or live entirely as female, the extent to which we are taken as so, radiates outwards by degree. At the outer edge, the day to day encounters with other folk, we can be taken unquestionably as female.The closer in, our friends and acqaintances learn of our history. We share it with them, as they share theirs with us. At the heart of our relationship with the world, we are always inbetweenies.

Thinking we're falling down the rabbit hole is partly the mental rush we get thinking about some kind of astonishing journey, and that we could be actually on it. I guess it comes down to what kind of relationship you want with your family, as to how far down the rabbit hole you want to go. Bluddy hell. I'm in the matrix.

[Frédérique]

I am a psychologist and although I am not a clinician I do understand that counseling consists of lots of little steps of guided self discovery, but there are times that I feel I would be better off with a magic eight ball.

Self-discovery does not require the presence of an outsider, IMHO (why do you think it's called self discovery?). I think you already know where you have led yourself, and where you are going, so you might as well go further, or deeper, until you find your ultimate fulfillment. You are Alice, and you are also the "looking glass" – if you can understand that conundrum you may not even require the services of an eight ball for enlightenment…:hugs:

[Alice B]

Where we draw the line is totally an individual thing and based upon a lot of factors that are also unique to the individual. I don't think anyone here can tell you what you should or should not do. But, we can all support you in whatever direction you take.

Each of us that CD would like to be a bit more. Maybe dress more, be able to be totally open, maybe modify ourself such as having real breasts, etc. Again unique to the individual. Do what you feel is best for you and since you are getting professional advise and you are a professional in the field I'm sure your decision will be best for you.:hugs:

[Rachel Morley]

Oh my gosh Suzanne, I so feel for you. :hugs:

You said that when you and your wife got married, early on you set some boundaries. The most important boundary being that if it went farther than dressing you wouldn't be married anymore. Whilst my wife and I didn't exactly say that to each other we both know that if what is happening to you now were to happen to me and I subsequently decided to transition fully it is highly likely that my wife would not be able to make that kind of adjustment and in the long run the "Rachel and Marla dream" would be over.

I know you will think seriously about the consequences for transitioning as well as the benefits ... probably some of them are unknown consequences at this time but try to think about what they might be. Run it through your mind just exactly what fully transitioning means, and I don't mean the physical stuff to do with hormones and surgery etc although that would also be a good thing to think about as well as there are medical risks involved. I mean the total change in life for not only yourself, but also your immediate family (wife and children).

There is no guarantee that you would still being living the life you are today (home, job, money, etc) except that you are female. There are some folks I know who have retained a lot of what they had before they transitioned but I also know quite a few that have lost it all - not everyone is so lucky.

Of course, it's very easy for me to say this because (for now anyway) I'm "only" a crossdresser and I don't have the "pull" that I perceive a TS woman would have, but you have my best wishes and I'm sure you will in your mind consider "the big picture" but in the end it's down to you and your own conscious to know what's best for you ... listen, learn and let the answers within you be your guide. :hugs: Good luck!

[Andie56]

Hi Suzanne
"I shared this with my therapist this morning and she told me that I have some tough decisions ahead of me." Wow were you at my session with me? I heard the same thing. But mine did say we will work on it togeather, in the meantime just go for whatever feels right!

[SuzanneBender]

Darling sisters thank you for all your kinds words of comfort and advice. The one thing that I do know is that this is a decission that I will not make lightly and I will go down this road slowly. I have given it a lot of thought, but I know there are plenty of other things to consider including the most important consideration, my family.

I really love Rebecca Jayne's advice about getting away to a quiet place for awhile to reflect. I think I am going to take that advice and spend a week or so before we have to return from Christmas break.

No my psychologist is not on the payroll of the Chiefs or Cubbies :heehee: although my being a fan has probably resulted in at least a couple of extra sessions. Ohhh and every time I shake that darn Magic 8 Ball it keeps telling me "reply hazy, try again.

I am amazed at the number of ladies out there wrestling with or that have wrestled with a situation similar to this. Again I thank all of you for your wonderful advice.

A big hug to all my sisters. :hugs:

[linnea]

Diane's questions and answers make very good points to ponder. So does the mid-life crisis question.
I have wrestled with this one time and time again. At my age, I probably will not go much farther than I have already gone.
I certainly empathize with you and wish you well.

[suchacutie]

The only perspective I can lend is this:

It's one thing to contemplate change from the comforting confines of a loving relationship. Before you step off into a different situation, gain some realistic experience in that situation as realistically as possible.

I love Tina, but living 24/7 as she would be a situation that would not be better than my currently loving wife and marriage.

Be realistic and then live a wonderful life :)

tina

[Autumndawn]

Suzanne - I'd like to first thank you for starting this string. The question of how far I would/could go, has bounced around in my brain for a long time. I also want to thank the rest of you girls that have replied to on this question. I might also add that while thinking of what to write in reply, I was struck by the fact that you used "Alice in Wonderland" as a lead into your situation. More on that later.
I don't think there is a day that goes by for me that I don't think about this.
The things that have prevented me from delving into the hole deeper, are my family, my children, freinds and the type of profession I'm in. I'd have so much to lose in order to gain the right to say "I am woman". I also say this with consideration to surviving three women in my life going through the menopause. That hasn't been pretty either. Another thing that prevents me is the fact that I would actually be a "TS woman", not a real one. Those are my road blocks. Still there are moments I have where I wish I would wake and find myself totally and completely changed. I don't think I'd be shocked. I consider that I would revel in the thought of daily prep and going about life as a woman.Though, I wouldn't want to be the poster child of "This can happen to you Man" either.
I agree with other sisters that this is an individual's path, though each of us knows what the physical results would be, we have to define what all the other results would be, or might be. Another thing is, it's a one way ticket. With no chance to change after you've arrived at your destination.
I know I've said things that we all know here, or at least have considered at times. Still the desire to wake up, and be physically something else can be so strong.
"Alice in Wonderland" a story full of whimsy, pondered upon for possible alternative messages, or maybe just simply to occupy a child's imagination.
Seems so appropriate of a metaphor to use in this instance.

[Margot]

Well Suzanne it sounds like want to transition but are conflicted by your needs to keep your marriage together. Although my wife is supportive she will not contemplate me being assigned a girlfriend role. Your wife sounds supportive of any decision you make. You will need to focus on your relationship with your wife and determine if you need to give it all up. That's probably not the only thing you might give up. There's other friends and family.
At home I'm fully dressed now all the time but can't seem to have the courage to go out en femme like many others here. I really hate not being femme now to the point where "guy" things are not being done around the house. This to me is becoming a problem that I need to deal with. I have a need to be femme but want to fulfill the male role to which nature has relegated me. This is a much easier decision for me than you but I understand where you are coming from, I think.
Margot

[kellycan27]

Funny, I used the exact same analogy just the other day,"Alice through the looking glass". As I see it,right now you are standing in front of the mirror..probing. Poking the mirror and seeing that, yes it's possible to penetrate the glass,but should you? What's on the other side? You have a lot of people standing around watching you and saying......Be careful Alice, there are consequences, I wouldn't do it, it may not be what you expect. You may not find what you are looking for... All very possible to be sure, but keep in mind that these people may not have the same desire or drive to slip beyond the safety of just looking at the glass. As some have said, it's a personal choice that shouldn't be taken lightly...logical and stellar advice.Now that the disclaimers in regards to consequences and obligations have been discussed we come to actually passing through the glass. Did it actually live up to my expectations? In some ways no, in other ways it far exceeded anything that I could have imagined. I got banged up and bruised as I tumbled down the hole, but after I picked myself up and the bruises healed, I found myself in a magic place. Is it all lollipops and roses? No, can it be dangerous and scary? Absolutely,painful? Almost unbearably at times. Worth the pain and suffering? 1000 times yes!
It may not be for you, but if it is and you can realize the dream it can be very fulfilling and rewarding.:2c:
In closing i would like to express my admiration for those who do desire to move forward,but due to circumstances do not. I believe that resisting the desire is just as courageous if not more than actually talking that leap of faith. I am not sure I could do that, and luckily I didn't have to make those considerations.

Kelly

[carolinoakland]

You are at the crux of the matter... after years of denial and doing everything I could to prove to myself that I wasn't TS, even trying to convince myself that I was ok with being a cd. But like you I went to my first trans convention, and not just the other girls who'd done it.... but the reality of living full time as a woman for the first time, even if it was only for three days they where the happiest three days I'd ever known. Followed by the saddest... the day I had to go back home to being 'him'. And as for the therapist, I knew that when I went there that I was looking for the questions, the answears where allready inside me. Being able to accept that was the most important thing. Your wife sounds wonderful, and is trying to accept. And continue to respect each others boundries. It will be critical later.... Carol
And a note about being a parent, I agonize that I could have been a happier more caring parent, had I not been frustrated at playing a role.

[sherri]

In closing i would like to express my admiration for those who do desire to move forward,but due to circumstances do not. I believe that resisting the desire is just as courageous if not more than actually talking that leap of faith.I for one really, really appreciate that acknowledgment. We don't hear that often enough, and it is further testament to your graciousness. It makes it so much easier to respect your perspective and advice.

And I'm not just saying that cuz you're drop-dead omg gorgeous. :)

[SuzanneBender]

But like you I went to my first trans convention, and not just the other girls who'd done it.... but the reality of living full time as a woman for the first time, even if it was only for three days they where the happiest three days I'd ever known. Followed by the saddest... the day I had to go back home to being 'him'. And a note about being a parent, I agonize that I could have been a happier more caring parent, had I not been frustrated at playing a role.

The best weeks of my life have been the weeks that I am Suzanne. I only feel truly at ease when my outward self matches my inner self. The rest of the time it feels like I am in constant turmoil trying to make the best of a situation and no matter how hard I try it detracts from being a good father and spouse.

I feel that I would be a much better spouse and parent to my kids if I wasn't living out a constant lie about who I really am. I am a positive that I will still be a good parent for my children after transition. I know deep down inside that I am not a crossdresser. Some of the ladies on this site take great pride in being a man. I wish I could. Anymore, for me crossdressing has become a bandaid on a huge gaping wound. My gender is female despite being born a biological male. Unfortunately it has taken forty years for me to be willing to admit what I have known to be true my entire life.


I used the exact same analogy just the other day,"Alice through the looking glass". As I see it,right now you are standing in front of the mirror..probing. Poking the mirror and seeing that, yes it's possible to penetrate the glass, but should you? What's on the other side?
Your post explains exactly why I used this analogy. I know the trip through the looking glass and down the rabbit hole would be wondrous, but fraught with challenges. I feel the fear Alice felt concerning what is on the other side. I know I will also have moments like she did of wishing I could travel back. I have no preconceived notions that life will be easy and that there will not be painful moments along this journey for myself and my loved ones.

Ladies thanks for all your help with this. All of your opinions are cherished and will make a difference on way or the other. I am spending a lot of time journaling weighing the positive and negative of the here and now versus what is on the other side of the mirror. Your posts are helping me with refining that list. The one thing I do know is that I am only going to take "baby steps". The first of which is a 30 day sabbatical from the here and now of work and my family to explore living full time.

Hugs

[ReineD]

Suzanne, I feel for you and your family. I know it is not an easy decision to make. But, in the short time between beginning this thread and now, it looks as if you have moved a little closer towards deciding to go through that looking glass. I take it your wife will respect your decision. She did say she will cease to be your wife when you do transition but continue to be your friend? I do not know whether your relationship has already settled into more of a deep friendship over the last few years and this is one of the reasons why transition has become an option. If both you and your wife are of the same mind that transitioning is feasible, even though your living arrangements might change, it is likely your children will be OK with it too. Are you also in a profession that would allow you to hang up your shingle as a woman, perhaps even specializing in gender issues?

My comments are more across the board. I'm noticing a trend in this forum and elsewhere. There appear to be more TG marriages where the struggle is moving away from learning to accept the CDing towards needing to come to terms with the possibility of transition.

When I was first involved in the community 3 short years ago, I belonged to a list-serve for GG SOs. Never was there talk about hormones or SRS. The majority of those GGs were struggling with whether they should stay married to husbands who occasionally wanted to wear panties and nighties to bed! :eek: Things have changed and they continue to change. We see more and more GGs joining this forum now who already support their partners. There was a multiple-page thread in the M2F recently where, not counting the posts between people who bantered back and forth, easily 75%-80% of the responses from married CDs indicated their wives supported the CDing. There are now many blogs by parents who support their TG children and fight for a more accepting society on their behalf.

I am heartened by all these changes because it is my hope that in time there will be fewer latent TSs, therefore less potential heartache all around. Please don't take this the wrong way, but as awareness of transness grows in our society, hopefully young TSs will grow up to know and accept who they are early enough before settling into marriages with hetero GGs who want to be married to males. Conversely, as society becomes more accepting of gender variance, it will be easier for the more sexually fluid GGs and GMs to find TS partners. We still have a ways to go.

In the meantime I'm glad you and your wife are prepared to work through all of this together. You have my heartfelt wishes that you will arrive to a decision that will be best in the long run for all concerned. :hugs:

[christinek]

Hey Sweetie, the SCC opened alot of doors for me and many more emotions as well. I am still a bit scared and confused but Happier now that my SO is so accepting and going with me to meet you (Suzanne) at Be-All.

See you soon Sister :hugs:

[Terri Andrews]

The thoughts that everyone have shared are great ,I have felt the same as you and decided that I did not want to pay the cost to transistion . There are times that I regret that decision but I am not much on looking back.
I have a supportive SO and am out enfemme as often as I want ,so my life is not what I wanted ,but it is not bad .
This is a decision we each have to make , Please , take your time .

Thanks for sharing Your thoughts with us .

[Aubrey Green]

Suzanne sweetie, your therapist is right. She can help you sort through the problems and help you find answers, but in the end, it is your decision. That is a question you will not solve in 1, 2 or even 20 visits. It will be the biggest decision you will make your entire life, wether Suzanne lives as she is or makes her change and risks losing half of her life. Do not jump quickly, you with your background and your therapist can find the correct answer.

:hugs: :hugs: :hugs:

[gretchen_love]

I think the other ladies have said all I could say and more, so I just want to offer my support and a cyber hug.

[Acadeca]

I have to wonder how many guys would accept his wife saying "hey I never told you this but I like to dress in guy mode and... I wonder how acceptable that would be.


Check out the number of male SOs on the loved ones thread. There's your answer. (Yes, there are fewer FtMs than the other way, but if there has ever been a male SO on there, I can't remember it.) Several members here have admitted that they'd leave in this situation.

What's enjoyable for you brings great pain to many of your wives, yet they put up with it to hold their families together. Those wives are doing their very best under difficult circumstances that, in most cases, they knew nothing about when they agreed to marry you. I wish some of you would keep that in mind when you demand that your wives educate themselves and accept something that they never bargained for.

[carolinoakland]

Ok, you are proving to me that old saying that every ts's story is the same...just the names and dates are diferent. My heart really goes out there for you honey. And Kelly points out the courage to know this and choose not to act on it... I ran from this knowledge because I knew if I knew I was a TS then I'd be responsible for that knowledge and doing something about it...or not. I really did go through exactly the same sort of feelings. I hope that we are a help, I have always found help here. carol

[SuzanneBender]

Ok, you are proving to me that old saying that every ts's story is the same...just the names and dates are diferent. My heart really goes out there for you honey. And Kelly points out the courage to know this and choose not to act on it... I ran from this knowledge because I knew if I knew I was a TS then I'd be responsible for that knowledge and doing something about it...or not. I really did go through exactly the same sort of feelings. I hope that we are a help, I have always found help here. carol

Ohhh Carol I can't express the gratitude for everyone's opinion on this especially yours. I never expected the support that I received from this post.

For those that think I am making this decission just based on me you couldn't be further from the truth. Everything that I do revolves around my family. I have spent many of my waking hours reflecting on this question. I determined that my decission will be based off two things.

1. Is being a TS really what I want? I can only tell that by doing this more than just a day or two at a time. I am going to spend my sebatical this spring as a woman. It will give me an opportunity to live and work as a woman. From there I will have a better perspective as I ponder the second question.

2. Will I be a better person when the outside matches the inside? Number one will help me determine if the sense of calm that I feel when I am en femme will carry over. Will this make me a better parent? If it does? Will that difference offset the untold amount of stress and challenges on them if I transistion.

[Miranda09]

Please dear. I will always be me. I am a Chiefs and Cubbies fan. There is no way I can ever consider myself superior.

Well Suzanne, if you're a Cubbies fan, then you must have a good head on your shoulders!!!:D

But seriously, I would just like to say that while I can't relate to the feelings you are obviously going thru, just remember those around you, whom have also supported you. I can relate about the pink fog, and there are times when I wish I could have more, but I'm not about to sacrifice my male self for that. Honestly, if I were lucky enough to have such a great wife, I would do everything to keep that fog under control. She's a truly special person and there aren't that many out there. Just remember that age old saying..."the grass is always greener on the other side!" Whatever you do, I hope the best for you. :hugs:

[sonia_dargency]

Decision is the keyword of the entire thread.

I believe that as a parent, the best thing you can do for your children is to be an example of courage, to show them that when conflicts arose, you made real decisions and endured the consequences, that you faced adversity and responded unafraid. anything less of that will emped their courage and ability to become responsible adults.

do not listen to your mind, it has been distracted, do not listen to your heart for it can have been corrupted. this kind of answer is in your guts.

Do not mistake desire for comfort and achievement of greater self but it takes a man to be a woman

This is my first post, in the first forum I ever contributed to, on any topic - I do not know much of the etiquette and hope not to be perceived coldhearted, but Suzanne is facing a major issue - only strong words came to me.

She is too cute to be left to misery

Sonia

[ReineD]

I can relate about the pink fog, and there are times when I wish I could have more, but I'm not about to sacrifice my male self for that.

The big question is how does one tell the difference between a temporary fog and what is meant to be?

[vetobob9]

Girls I am about to give up my hard earned reputation on this site as a well put together TG gal.

I thought I had the answer but lately the pink fog is really starting to overtake my life. I find the threads concerning crossdresser vs. transsexuals very interesting because I can't tell you where I belong on the spectrum, but I feel that I am sliding down the rabbit hole with a TS Alice.

I hid being transgendered for years from a wonderful and supportive wife. She has accepted the dressing as a part of the man she loves, but early on we set some boundaries. The most important boundary being that if it went farther than dressing we wouldn't be married. For the past couple of years I was satisfied with this arrangement. Then came SCC and I met some incredible ladies there that had transitioned and were leading wonderful lives and were wonderful parents despite all of the challenges. A flood of feelings and regrets overwhelmed me as well as the nagging knowledge that there could be more. Now being Suzanne part time doesn't feel right.

More and more I feel like I am crossdressed when in Male mode. When I was young I went to bed every night wishing and praying that I would wake up female. I now find myself going to bed with those same wishes and I feel so guilty like I am letting my wife and my kids down.

I posted a couple of days ago about my wife coming home and finding me sick with the flu and dressed. She said she wasn't upset but last night it spawned the question from her, "do you want more?” I spoke from the heart and told her yes, but I am not sure at what cost. Being the wonderful woman she is she gave me a big hug with tears in her eyes and said she will always be there for me either as a wife or a friend. All I could do is hug her back and tell her that I will always love her no matter what should become of us and that I will not make any decisions without lots of reflection and discussion.

I shared this with my therapist this morning and she told me that I have some tough decisions ahead of me. I am paying a $150.00 and hour for advice like that? Where was the "go for it girl" or "are you nuts"? I am a psychologist and although I am not a clinician I do understand that counseling consists of lots of little steps of guided self discovery, but there are times that I feel I would be better off with a magic eight ball.

I am not sure what I am asking for here. I guess I just needed to vent to others that have or may be wrestling with the same issues and maybe I am just looking for a cyber hug or two as I wrestle with this. I wouldn't trade who I am for anything, but sometimes I have to wonder why God picked girls like us to carry burdens like this.

I have one question. What do you think is the reason you wish you were a girl? What interest would be served by undergoing such a painful and scarring operation which cannot ever be reversed?
Would it be something that you are 100% certain you can live with? If you have no doubts at all then do it. But if you have even a grain of sand's worth of doubt, then don't do it.
This is worse than joining the army. Once you sign the contract, there is no turning back, there is no "I was just doing it for the college money". Once it's done, your life is changed irrevocably forever.
I am sure there are people here who have had the procedure, which I am against because I personally consider it to be self mutiliation much like body piercings, who have first hand experience they can share with you as far as the physical costs and the like.
You might also consider your children and your spouse. How will she react? How will this affect your kids.
A lot of people might tell you go for it, or they might tell you don't go for it. I say you should slow down, think about it critically and rationally (putting aside your emotions). Talk to your significant other about it.
Don't do anything you are not 100% certain of.

God has a reason for you being here. You feel like a girl so that you can understand what the female gender is going through. This way you can sympathize with them.
You are physically a man so that you can seek to attain a station in life so you can do something about it.
Consider this, women make less than men, such that you would be losing part of your salary. You would be losing many other benefits of being a physical male.
Are you aware that there are still things men can do that women can't.
You should consider using your experiences to help those whose gender you wish to join. That is why God made you the way you are.
This was not meant to be a burden to you. It was meant to be a tool to help others.

[ReineD]

God has a reason for you being here. You feel like a girl so that you can understand what the female gender is going through. This way you can sympathize with them.
You are physically a man so that you can seek to attain a station in life so you can do something about it.
Consider this, women make less than men, such that you would be losing part of your salary. You would be losing many other benefits of being a physical male.
Are you aware that there are still things men can do that women can't.
You should consider using your experiences to help those whose gender you wish to join. That is why God made you the way you are.
This was not meant to be a burden to you. It was meant to be a tool to help others.

Welcome to the forum, Bob! :hugs:

After you've been here awhile you will discover there are many different points along the TG continuum. Some individuals like you can find ways to live comfortably in male mode while enjoying their femme selves. Others are transsexuals who do not feel comfortable in their male bodies, and they wish to live full time as women. This is difficult to do without hormone therapy and some transsexuals do not feel complete without SRS.

Forum TG members do their best to be true to themselves with regards to how far they wish to go. GGs do their best to go as far as they can with their acceptance and support. We also all try to not assume we know what is best for another. Everyone has their own God who speaks to them too.
:love:

[kellycan27]

Welcome Bob and I agree... that God did in fact make ME the way I am. As for the rest I am going to have to go with Reine

Kelly

[vetobob9]

Welcome to the forum, Bob! :hugs:

After you've been here awhile you will discover there are many different points along the TG continuum. Some individuals like you can find ways to live comfortably in male mode while enjoying their femme selves. Others are transsexuals who do not feel comfortable in their male bodies, and they wish to live full time as women. This is difficult to do without hormone therapy and some transsexuals do not feel complete without SRS.

Forum TG members do their best to be true to themselves with regards to how far they wish to go. GGs do their best to go as far as they can with their acceptance and support. We also all try to not assume we know what is best for another. Everyone has their own God who speaks to them too.
:love:

It was not my intent to appear to be casting a judgement. The OP was asking for advice. I meant to suggest they should think about it carefully before deciding. Though I probably did come off a bit too preachy about it.

[Miranda09]

The big question is how does one tell the difference between a temporary fog and what is meant to be?

I agree...which is why I'm here..hoping to understand that question. :)

[SuzanneBender]

The big question is how does one tell the difference between a temporary fog and what is meant to be?


I agree...which is why I'm here..hoping to understand that question. :)

Its also why I posed this question. I know this is not "temporary". It is something that I have always known, wanted, denied and hide for most of my life. My challenge is deciding if what I give up will be worth the cost and trying to establish what that cost will be.


I have one question. What do you think is the reason you wish you were a girl? ....Once it's done, your life is changed irrevocably forever.

You might also consider your children and your spouse. How will she react? How will this affect your kids.

Don't do anything you are not 100% certain of.

God has a reason for you being here. ...It was meant to be a tool to help others.

I believe that God did make me desire this for a reason and I am not going to make this decission lightly either way. Unfortunately, I know I will wonder "what if" no matter which decission I make. I also believe that God did make me this way as a tool to fulfill his plan. I am just not sure what that plan is. Welcome to the forum and thank your for your thoughtful and insightful opinion.

[CamilleLeon]

:hugs:

If you believe that were meant to be a girl, all the time, forever then you should consider it...but you of course need to think of your family, job, and other responsibilities that will be changed should you decide that you want to be a woman.

All I can say, is good luck girl...we'll support whatever you decide you need to do

[Karen564]

I believe that God did make me desire this for a reason and I am not going to make this decission lightly either way. Unfortunately, I know I will wonder "what if" no matter which decission I make. I also believe that God did make me this way as a tool to fulfill his plan. I am just not sure what that plan is. .

Same here Suzanne,
That's the way I looked at it too, but still not sure what his ultimate plan is for me yet..

It may have to do with bringing more acceptance into peoples hearts???, I don't know really, for I am 24/7 without having anyone in public give me a problem so far, and now going to college now to learn a new career (Medical), which there again, nobody has expressed any negitivity toward's me, although theres no men in my classes, just women, but do believe most females tend to be more accepting than men..
I don't announce that I am TS to the world, and try my best at doing it in a stealthy way, but I would find it hard to believe that I can fool all those women in class since I do have to participate in all class discussions for 4 hrs at a time which wears me down..not to mention that I am no beauty queen by any means..
So again, if they do indeed know, then maybe Gods plan is working, because everyone has been so nice to me for some reason...

I had to make that very choice your thinking about long ago (so it seems now), but it was more of a choice between life or death for me, and thats even with the advantage of making that choice as a single dad, since my 20 year marriage had ended by then, but after I decided on living, I took the smallest baby steps that I could muster before fully going all out and taking it to where I am now..

So Good luck, I do wish you the very best..
:hugs:

[Daniela76]

Wow, just wow.
Suzanne, I am stunned at the pain you are going through feeling this way.
I feel so sad for you (but not pity) and hope you figure out what to do.
Everyone has posted such good points for you to think about and they've given me good things to think about for myself even.

I had a couple of thoughts about questions you could ask yourself (just in case you needed more, or hadn't thought of these already):
1. You've already thought of this one, but are you willing to give up your marriage?
2. Would you be able to give up your marriage & would your wife want to live with you as a family still? (do you have kids or not?)
3. Do you plan on having any further relationships? Men or women? And do you want to see your wife in another relationship?

Just some heartfelt thoughts from a new sister. :love:

[Alicia Grey]

Dear Suzanne this thread "OK Alice where do we go from here?" Started 12-04-09

It was a shocker, I related to all the pain you must feel. I wanted to write something to help but words failed me. I was afraid for you. Then later on the message came on

12-08-2009


The first of which is a 30 day sabbatical from the here and now of work and my family to explore living full time.


And I thought, She's cut herself off from all contact. It was too late to write I have seen other posts from you and wondered what happened. Then today I see the thread up again.

in your original posting you wrote


Being the wonderful woman she is she gave me a big hug with tears in her eyes and said she will always be there for me either as a wife or a friend. All I could do is hug her back and tell her that I will always love her no matter what should become of us

From this loving statement your wife will always be with your side.

[ReineD]

The big question is how does one tell the difference between a temporary fog and what is meant to be?


I agree...which is why I'm here..hoping to understand that question. :)


The decisive factor seems to be:

but it was more of a choice between life of death for me

[noeleena]

Hi..
To answer a ?? or two .

I was thinking do i say what i am or what i m not .
Well i was born the way i am different . nether male or female ,or both . does it really matter . no . & some of us did not chose how we should live . because there came a time . tho late . to live true to our selfs .
I have tryed to figger it out . yet i dont have that answer . so i leave it .
& just get on with who i am . i m a woman . with some parts missing . & yet some natal women have had some taken out . ie op s .

one ? is should we have surgery if that is what it takes for us to live . for me yes .
if my mun had not had surgery in 1959 she would have died . & i would have lost her as it is i did i was 24 at the time so i had about 9 more years with her . . as has been said . some dont agree with us having surgerys ..then please hear us its not just the op s . there is so much more to it than just that .
Of cause you may not understand how can you . when you see what is going on in side of us then you ll understand . & may be have an idear .
The ??. s posed are not should i rather i need this to live . not may be or even oh well have the op & every thing will be okay . well not quite . we need air to breath with out that we die that is what its like for us . what goes on in our minds . psychologically ..mentlally ..& emotionally.. try dealing with that. plus all the other details going on & then you may understand why we go through hell to just be who we are .
For those of us who pose the ?? .s are not taken lightly trust me i know . & so does Jos after all most 12 years & 8 of those were pure hell . for Jos as well .
I m a woman & all ways was & am ..

we who have gone through this can not tell others what they should do or not we are all different . & where we come from. there are some who if you like just dress . some who are t s . & of cause many are at different levels in thier lives . & how they see them selfs . & where they are going . & if they need to have surgeys . then so be it . we are not doing it for fun .

I m accepted as a woman not because of what i wear .not because i pass i dont . its because . of ...who ...i am . as a person .

If this ?? is about what i should do then the answer is ...be true to your self . you get one go . then take it with all your heart . ...& dont look back . you ll know what to do & that will come from the depth s of your inner most part of you . we can help.. we can advise you .. we can be with you .. we just can not tell you . what to do . .....
If you have any dought . then back off a while & wait . dont say i m going to go ahead any way no matter what . the point is when its right it will happen & not before .

For this kid when every detail was in place it worked . i m not saying every thing concerning people . family. friends . work . it s how it effects you inside first . then family & so on . those details can be worked out . even if it means losing some family . & friends like many do . you will find new friends .
Im not saying it s easy . not at all . yet there is a peace that comes . in knowing your real self . even then for me it came in the midest of termoil.

How best to put it . i pick the rose . to smell the perfum of that rose & the barbs hurt like hell . thats what it was like for me ..
with out the barbs i would not have smelt the rose .

...noeleena...

[Claire Cook]

Is being a TS really what I want? I can only tell that by doing this more than just a day or two at a time. I am going to spend my sebatical this spring as a woman. It will give me an opportunity to live and work as a woman. From there I will have a better perspective as I ponder the second question.



Suzanne, you have the courage to do what I thought of doing years ago and either didn't have the guts or the conviction to do. Wherever your journey leads, we are all here beside you.

[Theresa1955]

Suzzanne. I know you are going through some soul searching and trying to come to grips with what is real and what maybe fantasy. No amount of advice can make your decision. What is really important is that we here on Crossdressers will support whatever decision you make. We will be there for you. :hugs: