Transitioning and the mind

[Karen Born]

Hi all,

My wife and I have been in the throes of a discussion of my 'possible' transitioning and I cannot answer some questions she has passed my way. She understands that I have reached a crossroads in my life as a man and that I have realized that I've been struggling with me wanting to be female, but neither of us have either read or heard what the mind of a transitioning MTF goes through.

She is concerned that my male 'being' will be totally replaced by my 'female' personna and that she will lose the person she first fell in love with. Is this a possibilty or something that can be controlled by myself?

[StaceyJane]

No matter what you still will be the same person.

[Jenny Chen]

Hi all,

My wife and I have been in the throes of a discussion of my 'possible' transitioning and I cannot answer some questions she has passed my way. She understands that I have reached a crossroads in my life as a man and that I have realized that I've been struggling with me wanting to be female, but neither of us have either read or heard what the mind of a transistioning MTF goes through.

She is concerned that my male 'being' will be totally replaced by my 'female' personna and that she will lose the person she first fell in love with. Is this a possibilty or something that can be controlled by myself?

You are who you are and that will not change, to a point. Now it would just be a lie if one say you'll stay the same cause that is not true, depending on of course if you decide to do HRT or not.

If you do decide to go on HRT, slight mentality changes will occur to a point. There is no way to tell how much since it varies form person to person, but you can expect some behavior, habit, attitude and some minor personality adjustments, which would have a combined affect of shifting you over all "aura", for the lack of a better word, to be a bit more feminine.

Now your over all underlying personality would not change by much, you will still be who you were just a bit (or a lot) more girly. So if you wife is okay with a girly version of you than your in the clear if not you might have some more talking to do.

But yeah that the summarized version of the answer my psychologist gave me, did my best to shorten it but hey every one is different so what applies to me might not apply to you. So in the end it up to you to decide if you wish to explore this or not, and maybe your wife would understand and take this journey with you. It a long tripe, so for the better or worst enjoy the ride.

:2c:

[luvSophia]

No matter what you still will be the same person.
I have to take exception to that. None of the girls I know in 3D would say that. And three spouses of girls who have finished their transition say that their partners are most definitely NOT the same person, and two of the three are pretty glad of that. After all, isn't that pretty much the whole point of transition? To become the person you have always felt you were but never able to be? There is way more to transition than dropping by Walmart and picking up a new body.

Just simply removing my anxiety and depression has changed the way I look at things. Being on estrogen and blocking testosterone has changed my personality, I am much more relaxed and mellower. I feel like I am allowed to explore my emotions more (and I do). My body is changing and the way that I look at it and feel about it is changing. I am no longer the “male role model” (not that I was ever any good at it anyway, but now it's pretty much out of the question).

My fervent hope is that through transition I will NOT be “the same person I always was”. And for a relationship to last and survive you have to accept that and be able to work it into your relationship. After all, none of us are the same persons we were 20 years ago. We experience life and life changes us. Transition is perhaps 20 years of change condensed down to a couple years.

[GypsyKaren]

I think that everyone's going to end up differently because each path is unique to your life and circumstances, but I believe that you can be the same person, just better at it because of your new freedom to be your true self. I know that Kat keeps telling me that I'm still the same person inside and I agree, we're celebrating our 16th anniversary next week and we're still very happy together, so we must be doing something right.

KS :g1:

[Karen Born]

My wife was thinking along the lines that I would lose my interests like woodworking or piloting an airplane (I'm a licensed pilot) if I went through HRT and I've been trying to explain to her that the essence of who I am, along with my interests (read hobbies) won't change, but my outlook on life, my reactions to situations and my overall mental health will change.

What she is trying to understand is the wive's of those who transitioned, their fears and worries prior to the initial psychiatrist's appt. What emotions did they experience and how did they cope with them prior, during and after transition?

I know this is changing the scope of the initial post, but she's trying desperately to understand and support me and this is the beginning of acceptance to my situation.

[Karen564]

I will say that yes, you as a person wont change in regards like, if someone is an A Hole now, it wont make them all sweet after...they will just be an A hole in a skirt..after the dust settles down again

Hard to explain really. You will always be the same person,,,,,well, sorta kinda,,,,but different......:heehee:

And it's hard to exactly say what will happen to you, but once your well into HRT, like 4+ years, you may possibly experience some changes in your sexuality preferences & other things due to the hormones finishing the wiring job in your brain where it left off because of the sudden rush of Testosterone that came flooding in during puberty that stopped it dead before it could complete the job.

Ummmm, I'll put it this way, My female brain is now complete & wired correctly..:whistling:

Not saying this will definitely happen to you, but just letting you know that it can happen, and I'm not the only TS that had this happen to them...

And I doubt you will ever lose the love of flying, just as I will never lose my love for boating, and I loved flying small planes too..although it's been a while since I last flown as co-pilot in my friends plane (Piper, Archer II ), but loved it when he used to let me do the takeoffs & flying around on a wing & prayer..(VFR) & (IFR)

Maybe once my life settles down a bit, I'll take up flying again....I do miss it a lot..

:hugs:

[luvSophia]

I will say that yes, you as a person wont change in regards like, if someone is an A Hole now, it wont make them all sweet after...they will just be an A hole in a skirt..after the dust settles down again
lol, That is EXACTLY the change that one couple I know went through as expressed by the non-trans partner. Previously he was so wrapped up with trying to portray a male persona he was not suited for that it really negatively affected his personality. I'm not sure “sweet” is exactly the adjective I would choose for her now, but it is close enough.

Let me qualify my previous remarks. Transition has the potential to change who you are. It is pretty well accepted in the social sciences that personality is strongly affected by gender. (And I'll go ahead and slap my own wrist for not having references handy to back that up, but they are out there.) And if you have taken on an external gender role that is opposed to your internal gender identity it will have had an impact on your personality. The more the polarity differences between role and identity the greater the consequences.

[noeleena]

Hi....

Psychologically ..mentalally ..& emotionally.. A Big Yes you do change . i know because i come with both male & female ...a androgynous mind . 62 years of .

The ?? is how much . that will depend on the person . & the age . & where you come from . .(not the place you live . ) your upbringing there is no one hat size ...

When you go on h r t . oh yes again there are changes . body as well .
For me it was i can express my self ...& this is just so neat . AS A WOMAN.......

So you learnt to fly . so carry on . with ...ppl .. .wood work ... i m a builder . & love doing wood work & wood turning . plus a lot of other things .. i was all so trained . to do it . so ....carry on ......that s a part of who we are . i know my plus s & lack s . both as a so called male & as a woman .
I dont have a womb . does that stop me from being a woman . may be not compleat . still a woman ....Yes i have a male back ground . & i m happy with that . with out my past . what would i be ... I was born this way . so i run with it .

Changes .
how you think . love being around women . more comfortable in my self . can do things that women do . more understanding .... knowing how women feel. react . empithy . the mind set is totaly not male.. wired differetly .

(( in this case .. not me .)) so . could be a change in how you think about men . & yes in a sexual way ....your taste in food . music . thing s you did may change . how you see women .. female s ..

Heres one i v seen in some of my friends . the agro . goes like driving cars . not as aggresive not every one of cause .
you think as a woman . & a thought here .(( i dont because i love Jos )). your love to your s o could change .
Now this of cause is just a few details . there s a lot more . i can tell you .
For your s o ,
oh yes there are concerns . her self esteem will hit the floor . her self worth . the lack of ( me here ....) the lose of A real male ..husband ..lover. ..will be gone . & a long time getting back up on her feet .
I know some will not like what i m saying . well when you v been through hell ....you ll know ...& this is just a little part of the deal ......try 8 years of. then you ll understand . what i m talking about . & then on top of that ....kid s . I can tell you it s one hell of a ride .
& that s just as i said in my first three words ....can i say depression . opression
& thoughts of ending it . so it s all there . & it effects us all in different way s & we dont know when it s going to hit us .....okay most of this applys to Jos & i .
Yet i see many details that could apply to you & you r s o ..
Just an other thought the core of the person . does that change . for some yes . other s no . for me . not really because i m both that part of being in the middle . & because i express my self differently . i held that back for 50 years . another story on that .
so yes there are many changes .......

...noeleena...

[Kaitlyn Michele]

This is more in response to your broader question.

Frankly, if you are just getting to the point of really working on this, focusing on the tricky topic of whether you change is unlikely to be satisfactory to either of you...the only true answer is unknown...your situation will be different...

but there are some "knowns"...you have this issue, you've been suffering and trying to deal with it, and your wife is trying to understand..
working with your wife on understanding and seeing this from each others point of view is critical to your relationship going forward...

here are some articles that I found helpful

http://www.avitale.com/developmentalreview.htm

http://possiblepast.blogspot.com/2009/06/me-special-guest-contributor-shellie.html

http://www.antijen.org/psychol/osbo1.html


lots of interesting and hopefully enlightening thinking in these articles

[CharleneT]

This is more in response to your broader question.

Frankly, if you are just getting to the point of really working on this, focusing on the tricky topic of whether you change is unlikely to be satisfactory to either of you...the only true answer is unknown...your situation will be different...

but there are some "knowns"...you have this issue, you've been suffering and trying to deal with it, and your wife is trying to understand..
working with your wife on understanding and seeing this from each others point of view is critical to your relationship going forward...

here are some articles that I found helpful

http://www.avitale.com/developmentalreview.htm

http://possiblepast.blogspot.com/2009/06/me-special-guest-contributor-shellie.html

http://www.antijen.org/psychol/osbo1.html


lots of interesting and hopefully enlightening thinking in these articles


Folks, no kidding, there is a lot there to read that is very interesting !!

[Karen Born]

This is more in response to your broader question.

Frankly, if you are just getting to the point of really working on this, focusing on the tricky topic of whether you change is unlikely to be satisfactory to either of you...the only true answer is unknown...your situation will be different...

but there are some "knowns"...you have this issue, you've been suffering and trying to deal with it, and your wife is trying to understand..
working with your wife on understanding and seeing this from each others point of view is critical to your relationship going forward...



Thank you for the links... my loving wife and I are most appreciative. Your remarks have hit the nail on the head and produced tears from both of us. We both understand that this is the beginning of a long road to travel, and to have her trying to understand and support me, I have to be one of the very lucky ones...

Thank you again.

Karen and Liz

[Empress Lainie]

I agree with what was said. Things will change. I am inmy 3rd yr of living female with female ID and the hormones even tho phytos have made changes in my attitudes especially to men.
I use to say I was 100 lesbian. No I have to say 90 per cent.
And I certainly think like a woman not a man but I did that all my life anyway.

[Hope]

The truth is that no one knows what the future holds, and that uncertainty can be paralyzing. I know it well.

The one thing we can guarantee ourselves, and each other is of change. The future will be different than today. And that is as it should be.

Certainly you are a different person today than you were 10 years ago, than you were as a teenager (if not you have done something horribly wrong)?

You will change as a person regardless of whether or not you transition. Of course the whole point of transition is to change is it not? One of the questions that seems relevant to ask is whether you think that the changes will be more positive with transition or without.

Are there things you can be in control of? Sure. We have great abilities to affect how we change and grow, who we are influenced by, and what situations we put ourselves into. One of the reasons I moved out of Chicago was because I did not like the person I was becoming there. Are there things that you won't be able to be in control of? Sure. If you take hormones, your brain will be altered in ways you have no control over (short of giving up the hormones).

Will your sexuality change? Quite possibly. There are girls who report significant shifts in their sexuality on hormones. But sexuality isn't about hormones. If taking hormones reliably and consistently altered ones sexuality, there would be a lot of noise made about a cure for homosexuality that involved a HRT regimen. Here is my completely unfounded suspicion: the girls who experience a change in their sexuality as women, always had some sort of latent bisexuality either lying dormant or actively repressed as a part of who they were as men - now in their new gender they feel more comfortable experimenting. But that is just me talking completely out of my backside - I have no research to suggest that it is true or not.

Here is the one your wife is really worried about: Will you still find HER attractive as a woman? Even the girls who do manifest a change in their sexuality - still like girls. So of course you will still find HER attractive, provided that she does not do something, or change in some way to make herself repugnant to you - which could happen regardless of your transition. No one knows what the future holds. Don't let that paralyze you.

[Karen564]

Here is my completely unfounded suspicion: the girls who experience a change in their sexuality as women, always had some sort of latent bisexuality either lying dormant or actively repressed as a part of who they were as men - now in their new gender they feel more comfortable experimenting. But that is just me talking completely out of my backside - I have no research to suggest that it is true or not.
.

Hope,

I dont have the time to get to deep into this due to my time restraints lately..

But I think your very close to being correct on that.., Speaking for myself, I had repressed those feelings but never acted out on them because I didn't want sex with a man ONLY because I didn't have the proper genitalia for it...and since puberty, I had only fantasized in my mind of having vaginal sex with one...and knew anal wasn't what I was after as a substitute until the day I had an vagina 1st....
To sum it up, it was all about me having the 98% correct female body, not just part of it, before I could ever have intimate sex with a male....although that didn't rule out having oral sex on a man once I felt comfortable and into my transition...
But I also believe that after the long period of time I've been on HRT, that it did finish the wiring in my brain and have noticed a definite change now in how I feel about men across the board, that I never felt before, so now the way I'm attracted to them and in some (new to me) natural built in primal way to evaluate whether or not if their suitable for matting, I scan there smell, build, looks, demeanor, movement, character, personality, status, sensuality instantly.. probably much the same any man looks at a woman, and if the two are instantly attracted to each other, sometimes for unknown reasons to them ...then after that the brain kicks into another mode and re-evaluates the situation, including any social behaviors & compatability.....Since I started down this path I've had quite a few guys have an initial attraction towards me and sometimes I had the same for them, but if the situation calls for it, and need to tell him I'm not anatomically correct yet, he's usually outta there in a hurry, (but usually do their best to be polite about it), #1 is the initial shock he's in, and also think he's wondering why he felt any initial attraction in the 1st place..

All of which is fine with me anyways, because I'm still not looking for that kind of serious relationship or intimacy until after the srs... but it doesn't stop me from kicking the tires every now & then...lol:heehee:

[kellycan27]

The truth is that no one knows what the future holds, and that uncertainty can be paralyzing. I know it well.


Here is the one your wife is really worried about: Will you still find HER attractive as a woman? Even the girls who do manifest a change in their sexuality - still like girls. So of course you will still find HER attractive, provided that she does not do something, or change in some way to make herself repugnant to you - which could happen regardless of your transition. No one knows what the future holds. Don't let that paralyze you.

Does anyone ever consider the fact that their wives may not want to have sex with a woman, or give up traditional sex altogether, or that she doesn't want a female roommate? Maybe she's afraid that the changes will may make YOU repugnant to her. And maybe the wife won't find YOU attractive as a woman.
I am not sure how old some of you people are, but as a young person, I find sex to be a very important part of of my, and my partners relationship. Sure there may be other ways to pleasure your partner, but maybe, just maybe she doesn't want to settle. Maybe traditional sex is something SHE considers important. Do you really believe that your wife will be able to see you as the same person after you transition? She didn't marry a woman, she married a man.
Why do girls marry boys to begin with? Why do some gg's split when they find out that their SO is a cross dresser or TS? Could it be that it isn't what they signed up for?

[Stephanie Heplby]

HRT-related changes include brain topology. Here is the top level information from a relevant medical study. Note that contrary to some posts here, this study was done on live subjects.

Journal:
European Journal of Endocrinology (2006) 155 S107–S114

Article Title:
Changing your sex changes your brain: influences of
testosterone and estrogen on adult human brain structure

Authors:
Hilleke E Hulshoff Pol, Peggy T Cohen-Kettenis1, Neeltje E M Van Haren, Jiska S Peper, Rachel G H Brans,
Wiepke Cahn, Hugo G Schnack, Louis J G Gooren2 and Rene S Kahn

Abstract:

Objective: Sex hormones are not only involved in the formation of reproductive organs, but also induce sexually-dimorphic brain development and organization. Cross-sex hormone administration to transsexuals provides a unique possibility to study the effects of sex steroids on brain morphology in young adulthood.

Methods: Magnetic resonance brain images were made prior to, and during, cross-sex hormone treatment to study the influence of anti-androgen + estrogen treatment on brain morphology in eight young adult male-to-female transsexual human subjects and of androgen treatment in six femaleto-
male transsexuals.

Results: Compared with controls, anti-androgen + estrogen treatment decreased brain volumes of male-to-female subjects towards female proportions, while androgen treatment in female-to-male subjects increased total brain and hypothalamus volumes towards male proportions.

Conclusions: The findings suggest that, throughout life, gonadal hormones remain essential for maintaining aspects of sex-specific differences in the human brain.

[Melissa A.]

Here's my experience. What it means, or why it happened that way, I'm still not sure. I'm really not too concerned at this point.

For most of my life, with the exception of revelations about being female when I was 3 or 4 years old, that were quickly buried for a long, long time, I identified as a crossdresser who was attracted to females. I may have had alot of doubts about alot of things over the years, surely many gender-related doubts and anxieties, but one thing I can never remember doubting, ever, was my sexuality. I'm sure I liked women. Lusted after women. I was always sure. Possibley being attracted to men never even occured to me, much less ever became an issue. Then, that changed. Not overnight, certainly, but it did happen, over time. It was sometime durring the time I was starting to really question who I was, but before I started therapy, and certainly way before Hormone Therapy. Now, I think of women as sisters, friends, pals, roomates(2 of them), but pretty much anything but romantically/sexually. This kind of 180 degree turnaround was one of the things that spurred me into therapy, but I'm sure I would have seeked that, anyway, as the feelings of GID were increasing exponentially, with every passing day, at that point. I will admit that it did throw me for a loop at the time. The first time I kissed a man, I was a mess right up until that moment. (can I do this??? what the hell am I doing??? omg! omg!) Then, when it happened, it was one of the most natural things I had ever felt in my life. It was right. I really don't know what any of this means. My therapist used to tell me that while gender and sexuality are generally regarded as separate entities, there is still alot about the brain we just don't know. She also made a suggestion that really confused me at first-"Could be you were heterosexual when trying to be male, and you're still heterosexual as the female you always were." HUH??? But in a very wierd way, it makes as much sense as anything else.

Hugs,

Melissa:)

[Kaitlyn Michele]

:yt:


there are so many unknowns..

sexuality is a big confusing part of things...

most people are straight..i dont know exact stats but lets say 9 out of 10.
So if we are really to beleive (and I beleive) that we are women forced to live as men for a time, then it stands to reason that 9 out of 10 of us are straight women...i'm making all this up, but it makes sense to me!

it's interesting that there seem to be many more bi or lesbian MTF women then in the GG population...

add to that the incredible amount of homophobia in the world...and we are all susceptable to it...how many coming out letters have you seen where someone says, don't worry mom, I'm not gay...that's very curious to me..and i think it's instructive to your question

The specific answer I'd offer to Karen is that anything can be controlled, and it makes perfect sense that you love your wife (i still do), but I also would be wary that your love is really not a man's love for a woman, and your wife's needs must be fully and totally included in your marraige. You may feel urges now that are impacted by hormones, homophobia, your deep love of your wife, your fear of change, your fear of losing your wife, etc etc etc..

to put it most bluntly...you just have to be totally and completely honest...i was totally and completely straight as a guy...i never even allowed myself to consider being with a man...and it never bothered me that I was missing out..

however, i finally experienced the feeling of having a man look in my eyes and wanting me and i knew i wanted him back very badly

...for me to feel comfortable with that ..i had to actually do it, and i had to be me (ie presenting as female)...you will go through all these things as you change and it will impact both you and your wife...to stay together, you need to be totally open and honest with each other...

i hope i'm notbeing to blunt, but i think its really important to be upfront about these things pretransition, and pre marriage decision...