Another take on why people insult TG.

[Nicole Erin]

Most of us have had this pleasure...
In fact my latest one was the new hick neighbors were mocking me. Yeah I was coming in the house from my car and one of them was prancing up and down the sidewalk. Then him and some other guy started talking like they were gay. I just nodded and was like "How is it going?"
Well these guys have accents like Larry the cable guy.
Gyod our haters always seem to have that accent...

TG have many thoughts why people mock or hate us. But here is what I have concluded -

People that act like that probably truely do have some type of learning disorder. I cannot keep up with the latest names for it but I think maybe they suffer Down's syndrome. I mean they just don't know any better, much like a puppy doesn't know any better when it pees on the carpet. You get madder than hell at the puppy but you can't really punish it for not knowing any better.

I know it is aggrivating to get insulted when you get read, but what I am asking is to practice a little extra patience with society's slower memebers like the ones who think mocking or insulting us is OK. They have learning disabilities, they know that. They don't know any better. Many times they don't have all their teeth, or clean clothes, or an ability to articulate....

I am getting better. I used to hate my neighbors but I finally realised they are just imbeciles who should be felt sorry for.

This heart-felt thought was brought to you from the loving, compassionate, sensitive Erin :tongueout

[Deborah Jane]

They aren't intelligent enough to have a learning disorder or such like.
This simple fact is they are just MORONS....Nothing more, nothing less!!!

[carolinoakland]

What was the scripture? "forgive them father for they know not what they do?" We are the bigger people on the inside. Carol

[kym]

its a proven fact that most are scared of that which they do not understand. we seem to be the most misunderstood population around.

[sherri52]

They always seem to speak in four letter words. That should be a sign of thier mentality.

[oh em GIA]

theres this guy in my class in trade school thats the same way, he automatically thinks im gay just cause i cd. even tho all the girls tell him im not and i do to. hes close minded :( poor fool

[KarenCDFL]

People insult others because of their own low self esteem and they think by putting down others, they boost their own clueless ego's.

So now they think they have gained something which we all know is utter BS.

This type of behavior is rampant and I know I am sometimes guilty of it as well and continue to work on improving myself.

[Alicia_lynn419]

Being an uncle to a Down's Child... I think a Down's child would be the LAST one to mock us... their heart's are pure, and see no difference. If people mock us, it's due to ignorance, fear or insecurity in their own sexuality.

[Kate Simmons]

Yeah, well, that stuff usually goes over my head and gets lost to me anyway Nicole. I Usually have places to go and better things to do.:)

[Lorileah]

Time wasted on fools is time wasted.

And I come from Larry The Cable Guy country. I don't tok lak that t'all. Git'er Done. :)

[SuzanneBender]

Nicole you have the right attitude. We can't cower and hide when insulted like we are doing something wrong, but as you demonstrate we should take the high road.

People mock what they don't know and unfortunately because of it they close so many doors that could offer them a much more fulfilling and well rounded life. I also feel sorry for them.

I also agree with Alicia. This has nothing to due with mental capacity. I have been blessed to work with Adult Mentally Handicapped and they are the most accepting loving people I have ever been around. I would classify the people you are describing Nicole as ignorant.

Unfortunately, history has proven that ignorant people breed.

[sterling12]

In Prison, I understand that all The Other Cons just want to kill The Child Molester. It's not particularly related to his transgressions; it just gives them a chance to gain some form of dubious self-respect cause' they can actually "look down" on someone else.

These guys are probably working on a similar scenario: "I think your contemptible, and I know your worthy of my hatred, even though I could be on Springer's Show and am The Product of a lot of in-breeding."

Please be careful, they tend to escalate. Especially if your not giving them The Satisfaction of acting guilty and wretched! Locks on your doors, A cell phone, and perhaps a way to protect yourself might be in order.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Fab Karen]

Time wasted on fools is time wasted.
Right. Two people never worth arguing with: morons & crazies.

And I come from Larry The Cable Guy country. I don't tok lak that t'all. Git'er Done. :)
I'm sorry, could you repeat that in English? :)

[Billijo49504]

As Ron White says, " You can't fix stupid."

[PetiteDuality]

People that act like that probably truely do have some type of learning disorder. I cannot keep up with the latest names for it but I think maybe they suffer Down's syndrome. I mean they just don't know any better, much like a puppy doesn't know any better when it pees on the carpet. You get madder than hell at the puppy but you can't really punish it for not knowing any better.


I find your Down syndrome reference highly insulting, and even more unintelligent and ignorant than the insults directed to CDs and TGs you are referring to.

TGs and CDs are maybe harder to understand. Not even us can understand it completely, and many people react based on their deep ignorance about the subject. The media doesn't help either since there is not a single positive portrait of CDs or TGs, other than mediocre comedies.

But knowing a little about Down syndrome is just about having just a very little amount of education and common sense.

[Persephone]

Most of us have had this pleasure...
In fact my latest one was the new hick neighbors were mocking me. Yeah I was coming in the house from my car and one of them was prancing up and down the sidewalk. Then him and some other guy started talking like they were gay. I just nodded and was like "How is it going?"
Well these guys have accents like Larry the cable guy.
Gyod our haters always seem to have that accent...

TG have many thoughts why people mock or hate us. But here is what I have concluded -

People that act like that probably truely do have some type of learning disorder. I cannot keep up with the latest names for it but I think maybe they suffer Down's syndrome. I mean they just don't know any better, much like a puppy doesn't know any better when it pees on the carpet. You get madder than hell at the puppy but you can't really punish it for not knowing any better.

I know it is aggrivating to get insulted when you get read, but what I am asking is to practice a little extra patience with society's slower memebers like the ones who think mocking or insulting us is OK. They have learning disabilities, they know that. They don't know any better. Many times they don't have all their teeth, or clean clothes, or an ability to articulate....

I am getting better. I used to hate my neighbors but I finally realised they are just imbeciles who should be felt sorry for.

This heart-felt thought was brought to you from the loving, compassionate, sensitive Erin :tongueout

It is amazing that there are people out there who don't have the slightest clue to what they are saying, they just feel like they need to vent their anger and frustration by lashing out at others.

Which is exactly what you have done, Nicole! Sorry to inform you, but your post is little more than a bigoted screed, lashing out at anyone and everyone you don't happen to like, or, even worse, that you don't happen to understand.

KarenCDFL said it very well in her post, "People insult others because of their own low self esteem and they think by putting down others, they boost their own clueless ego's."

It isn't your annoyance at those who were making fun of you that is the problem. Certainly, you are entitled to that.

But let's just see where it takes you.

"People that act like that probably truely do have some type of learning disorder."

Sorry, but the clinical definition of "learning disorders" constitutes a particular and reasonably well-defined set of conditions that have nothing to do with the behavior that you witnessed.

Very real people suffer from these disorders which make their lives difficult. They are as worthy of your tolerance, and perhaps even your respect, as anyone else you might encounter.

The specific definitions of these disorders are beyond the scope of what needs to be posted here, but you might want to run the term through a search engine before you toss these conditions around.

Actually, if you have some spare time, there are a number of programs for learning disabled individuals that would welcome your help as a volunteer. You can check out the opportunities by contacting the Learning Disabilities Association of Indiana (http://www.ldaofindiana.org/).

"I cannot keep up with the latest names for it but I think maybe they suffer Down's syndrome."

If you can't keep up with things, then maybe you shouldn't toss terms around. Down's Syndrome is a genetic condition caused by the presence of one too many chromosomes on pair 21. It results in a number of specific mental and physical issues.

As Alicia lynn has pointed out, Down's Syndrome children and adults are often known for their cheerful attitudes and their open acceptance of others, it actually seems to be a part of their syndrome.

Again, a few minutes with a search engine will provide you with some definitions, but going down and spending a few hours as a volunteer would really open your eyes and your heart.

You can contact Down's Syndrome Indiana at http://www.dsindiana.org. You might want to sign up to take part in their annual fundraiser, the "Buddy Walk," which will next take place in October of 2010. I'm sure they'd accept you if you choose to walk en femme.

I could go on and on to parse your post, finding errors along with your out-and-out bigotry, but, hopefully, I have made the point.

[kellycan27]

I have to agree with Petite and Persephone. Your willingness to put the learning disabled in the same category with these idiots says a lot about you. It just goes to show that bigots are everywhere. Seems like there are more than a couple of insensitive types living on your block.:Angry3:

[Tora]

Are some of these people trying to drag someone down to their level. Caution may be in order, with a bit of liquid courage some of these people might do something to confirm their stupidity.

[aggi123]

Words to live by: "Never argue with an idiot. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with years of experience."

You definitely did the right thing. Since I've never gone out dressed, I havn't been targeted by such ridicule, but I imagine I'll be subject to it when I do get around to going out.

[rocketscientist]

It is amazing that there are people out there who don't have the slightest clue to what they are saying, they just feel like they need to vent their anger and frustration by lashing out at others.

Which is exactly what you have done, Nicole! Sorry to inform you, but your post is little more than a bigoted screed, lashing out at anyone and everyone you don't happen to like, or, even worse, that you don't happen to understand.

KarenCDFL said it very well in her post, "People insult others because of their own low self esteem and they think by putting down others, they boost their own clueless ego's."

It isn't your annoyance at those who were making fun of you that is the problem. Certainly, you are entitled to that.

But let's just see where it takes you.

"People that act like that probably truely do have some type of learning disorder."

Sorry, but the clinical definition of "learning disorders" constitutes a particular and reasonably well-defined set of conditions that have nothing to do with the behavior that you witnessed.

Very real people suffer from these disorders which make their lives difficult. They are as worthy of your tolerance, and perhaps even your respect, as anyone else you might encounter.

The specific definitions of these disorders are beyond the scope of what needs to be posted here, but you might want to run the term through a search engine before you toss these conditions around.

Actually, if you have some spare time, there are a number of programs for learning disabled individuals that would welcome your help as a volunteer. You can check out the opportunities by contacting the Learning Disabilities Association of Indiana (http://www.ldaofindiana.org/).

"I cannot keep up with the latest names for it but I think maybe they suffer Down's syndrome."

If you can't keep up with things, then maybe you shouldn't toss terms around. Down's Syndrome is a genetic condition caused by the presence of one too many chromosomes on pair 21. It results in a number of specific mental and physical issues.

As Alicia lynn has pointed out, Down's Syndrome children and adults are often known for their cheerful attitudes and their open acceptance of others, it actually seems to be a part of their syndrome.

Again, a few minutes with a search engine will provide you with some definitions, but going down and spending a few hours as a volunteer would really open your eyes and your heart.

You can contact Down's Syndrome Indiana at http://www.dsindiana.org. You might want to sign up to take part in their annual fundraiser, the "Buddy Walk," which will next take place in October of 2010. I'm sure they'd accept you if you choose to walk en femme.

I could go on and on to parse your post, finding errors along with your out-and-out bigotry, but, hopefully, I have made the point.

I agree with Persephone and Petite ONLY to the point that Nicole should not have used learning disorders such as Down's Syndrome as a reason for her tormentors' behavior. As for Persephone's remark" Sorry to inform you, but your post is little more than a bigoted screed, lashing out at anyone and everyone you don't happen to like, or, even worse, that you don't happen to understand", There is def. some lashing out going on, by P herself. Anyone and everyone? As far as I could tell, Nicole just singled out some ignorant bozos( No disrespect intended to any professional clowns). Maybe Nicole doesn't like her boss either? Maybe he is or would be accepting of her cd habits. Maybe she doesn't like him because he smells like ass. How in the the world can P know "anyone and everyone" that Nicole doesn't like or understand? From what I can tell from Nicole's post, she is trying to be tolerant of her would be detractors.:2c:

[Nicole Erin]

How in the the world can P know "anyone and everyone" that Nicole doesn't like or understand?

Simple, P is one of those here who knows everything.

[Persephone]

As far as I could tell, Nicole just singled out some ignorant bozos( No disrespect intended to any professional clowns). Maybe Nicole doesn't like her boss either? Maybe he is or would be accepting of her cd habits. Maybe she doesn't like him because he smells like ass. How in the the world can P know "anyone and everyone" that Nicole doesn't like or understand? From what I can tell from Nicole's post, she is trying to be tolerant of her would be detractors.:2c:

Actually, Tonya, had Nicole singled out just the bozos or her boss I wouldn't have been concerned. Instead, she smears groups with her broad brush and that's what disturbs me.

If you go back into the archives you'll find that she posted something very similar about two months ago, around the first week of November I believe, when she wrote something like "With these hillybilly types, treat them as you would a wild animal. They don't really reason like humans. . . "

Exactly what is the difference between labeling people as "hillbilly types" and "rednecks" and labeling people as "queer" or "dago" or "the N word"? Stereotypes are very dangerous things.

[Nicole Erin]

If you go back into the archives you'll find that she posted something very similar about two months ago, around the first week of November I believe, when she wrote something like "With these hillybilly types, treat them as you would a wild animal. They don't really reason like humans. . . "

So you follow me around? How flattering. :love:
persephone, perhaps you have never had to deal with the kinds of people I have.

Since you told of how you spent a week in the "pink fog" or whatever they call that blissful stage, I am guessing you are new to being out.
Well trust me, I am hardly new to being out in the public eye. I don't sit in the closet and sneak out at night when the wife is in Timbuktoo.

People get on me or find me insulting or bigoted or whatever... Well sooner or later, some TG progress to wanting to live full time as who they really are, as I am going through right now.
It ain't all pink fog. I don't even remember what that feels like.

But when random strangers start giving the newbie "out" TS a hard time, they soon find out what it is like, wondering if they are going to be targeted for violence or at least ridicule, pending divorce, etc.

So am I full time? mmm, one could say. Do I pass well? Maybe by a longshot.
Would I post more photos of me here? Probably not, I don't need them floating around if I did end up banned from here.

What comes long after the "pink fog" has lifted is quite harsh. So, with trying to be full time but not passing so well, having to look over my shoulder, and wondering what life will be like in the coming months, yeah, I am bitter.
Love, Erin

[Persephone]

Persephone, perhaps you have never had to deal with the kinds of people I have.

I spent my youth and most of my life in communities in which I was always a member of some minority or other. I encountered prejudice from a very early age. When I was 12 I was horsewhipped for who I was.

Yeah, I think I have a feel for pain, rejection, and ostracism.

Like most here, I spent years feeling depressed and guilty. There was no internet when I went through that, so I spent most of those early years thinking I was the only "freak" in the world. That was life from before kindergarten through high school.

In college I came across one book or another, probably Kraft-Ebing's Psychopathia Sexualis from the 1800's. At least I learned I wasn't the only crossdresser, although things didn't look very good.

I spent hours, days, weeks researching the few books and articles there were. I learned a lot, none of it was very uplifting or inspiring.

I don't believe there is any point in comparing people's lives, all of us are different, and that is a good thing. But I'm pretty certain I paid my dues.

What I discovered was not that God hated me, but, rather, that I'd been given one of the most unique and precious gifts in the world, the ability to see life from both sides of the most significant human divide. A truly rare and wonderful blessing!


Since you told of how you spent a week in the "pink fog" or whatever they call that blissful stage, I am guessing you are new to being out.

You'd be wrong. I've been "out and about" for many years.


People get on me or find me insulting or bigoted or whatever... Well sooner or later, some TG progress to wanting to live full time as who they really are, as I am going through right now.

Being who you are or who you want to be is commendable. Being insulting or bigoted is not. The one cannot be used to justify the other.

[Marcie4you]

I agree, I can fix any computer, but stupidity eludes me......

[Jan Michell Collins]

As Ron White says, " You can't fix stupid."

In my line of work ((((LOL)))) Stupid is job securty!!!
:2c:

[Laura_Stephens]

Remember what George Carlin said:



Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

[Jason+]

"The Cure for ignorance is education; the cure for stupidity is death."

It's been a favorite quote of mine since I read it decades ago; it seems appropriate here.

[5150 Girl]

I've often heard that the louder one protests somthing, the moore they have a like secret to hide.....

[AmberLynn]

I have had the joy of over hearing gay,tg,tv and so on being put down 1 time in my life and this is what i did "i was haveing a bad day" I pulled out my wallet and took out 1 us dollar. walked over,thru it on there table and told them to buy them self's a clue,proceeded to call them a ass and left it at that. not very lady like i know,but if we dont stand up to them who will.

[Alice Torn]

When it comes, to every person on earth, "No one can tame the tongue." It is easier to tame the tides, than to tame the tongue. In other words, lets not be too hard on our fellows, and sisters, who offend with the tongue, as each one of us, must admit the same. Peace to all.

[Karen564]

After what I've seen lately,

I'm pretty sure it's just a personality thing.....lol

[seanmuscle]

Most of us have had this pleasure...
In fact my latest one was the new hick neighbors were mocking me. Yeah I was coming in the house from my car and one of them was prancing up and down the sidewalk. Then him and some other guy started talking like they were gay. I just nodded and was like "How is it going?"
Well these guys have accents like Larry the cable guy.
Gyod our haters always seem to have that accent...

TG have many thoughts why people mock or hate us. But here is what I have concluded -

People that act like that probably truely do have some type of learning disorder. I cannot keep up with the latest names for it but I think maybe they suffer Down's syndrome. I mean they just don't know any better, much like a puppy doesn't know any better when it pees on the carpet. You get madder than hell at the puppy but you can't really punish it for not knowing any better.

I know it is aggrivating to get insulted when you get read, but what I am asking is to practice a little extra patience with society's slower memebers like the ones who think mocking or insulting us is OK. They have learning disabilities, they know that. They don't know any better. Many times they don't have all their teeth, or clean clothes, or an ability to articulate....

I am getting better. I used to hate my neighbors but I finally realised they are just imbeciles who should be felt sorry for.

This heart-felt thought was brought to you from the loving, compassionate, sensitive Erin :tongueout

You know I am sick of those idiot rednecks. I beat the crap out of this kid one time for insulting a lad who choose to go out as a girl for haloween.

[DanaR]

Isn't this a similar situation to domestic violence, it's all about control and abuse. I suppose that the abuser gets a feeling of power when they are putting or beating down someone.

I always felt, if I didn't like or agree with someone, I would just move on; live and let live.

[Celeste]

Tact is a learned quality.Unfortunately some will never posses it.On the other hand if one or both of them liked what they saw,they may have gone into "protect male ego mode".

[Deidra Cowen]

A lot of men insult us due to the fact that they are attracted to us, they then figure out we are a Tgirl/CD whatever and panic.

[Samantha43]

I have had extensive experience with learning disabled people. Most of them would never say anything like that. They are good people with big hearts.

What you are dealing with here is people who are uneducated and insecure. Maybe one of them was turned on by you and had to prove his "manliness" by making fun of you. Who knows their reason......

Nicole, please don't act like them. You crossdress and they make fun of you and call you gay. Is calling them learning disabled or saying they have Down's Syndrome any different?

[Misty is Kindafem]

You know I am sick of those idiot rednecks. I beat the crap out of this kid one time for insulting a lad who choose to go out as a girl for haloween.

Sean, you're kinda playing into the stereotype a little honey, but I wouldn't mind a bit if I was the damsel you were protecting.:daydreaming:



-Misty

[vetobob9]

I have a question from a legislative point of view. Do transgender people and/or crossdressers think they are frequently singled out for persecution?
What is the usual category of the people doing the persecuting? Is it a particular group that is most likely to persecute?

[vetobob9]

A lot of men insult us due to the fact that they are attracted to us, they then figure out we are a Tgirl/CD whatever and panic.

Do you think it might be the way they are acculturated as children?

[Barbara Dugan]

I find your Down syndrome reference highly insulting, and even more unintelligent and ignorant than the insults directed to CDs and TGs you are referring to.

TGs and CDs are maybe harder to understand. Not even us can understand it completely, and many people react based on their deep ignorance about the subject. The media doesn't help either since there is not a single positive portrait of CDs or TGs, other than mediocre comedies.

But knowing a little about Down syndrome is just about having just a very little amount of education and common sense.

I understand why Nicole is angry at her less than understanding neighbors
but I have to agree on petite and Persephone the learning disabilities and Down syndrome reference was totally out of context and any parent of a child with Down syndrome or a learning disabilities can give you a thousands reasons why..by the way I love to death my down syndrome niece

[CamilleLeon]

As much as I hate defending close minded people, they probably don't have any mental disability and they probably aren't that unintelligent...although I can't say for for sure on that one.

They insult you because they don't understand...and they probably don't want to. There's nothing we can do except deal with it and hope that society becomes more accepting.

[Persephone]

I have a question from a legislative point of view. Do transgender people and/or crossdressers think they are frequently singled out for persecution?
What is the usual category of the people doing the persecuting? Is it a particular group that is most likely to persecute?

A very interesting question! But doesn't every group think that they are singled out for persecution?

If you are a legislator, particularly in California, I have a very significant item for your consideration.

Currently in California a transsexual can obtain a new driver's license in their new name and gender after providing a doctor's statement and meeting some other requirements. Many other states have similar oportunities with varying requirements.

But a growing number of transsexuals choose not to have sex reassignment surgery yet they are, under other definitions of the state, now a member of the opposite gender.

These folks, along with crossdressers, require government issued identification (most commonly a driver's license) to obtain a job, to open a checking account, to use credit and debit cards, and to travel freely using TSA secured methods of transportation.

The lack of a driver's license or a government issued ID card is a significant barrier to their quality of life.

If you are indeed a legislator, could you help us with this plight?

I'm "on the road" right now and only able to log in intermittently, so it is difficult for me to keep up with all of the threads. If you need further information, or if I can be of help in persuing the possibility of this, please feel free to send me a private message. And if you reply to this, if you would send me a copy via private message I would most certainly appreciate that as well.

Have a very Merry Christmas and a very wonderful New Year!

Hugs,
Persephone.

[Nicole Erin]

I have a question from a legislative point of view. Do transgender people and/or crossdressers think they are frequently singled out for persecution?
What is the usual category of the people doing the persecuting? Is it a particular group that is most likely to persecute?

Was talking to someone about this on another venue of the web, and she was in some kind of minor political position, not real sure, but it seems the conservative religious groups are hard-core against us.

Random insults from idiots is one thing but I guess often the conservatives seem willing to fight against the rights of GLBT.

If you are interested in learning more about this, I believe there is some kind of political sub-forum, maybe ask one of the mods if you can join it to learn more. Me, I am not into politics and don't argue it since I don't keep up with it a lot.

[vetobob9]

A very interesting question! But doesn't every group think that they are singled out for persecution?

If you are a legislator, particularly in California, I have a very significant item for your consideration.

Currently in California a transsexual can obtain a new driver's license in their new name and gender after providing a doctor's statement and meeting some other requirements. Many other states have similar oportunities with varying requirements.

But a growing number of transsexuals choose not to have sex reassignment surgery yet they are, under other definitions of the state, now a member of the opposite gender.

These folks, along with crossdressers, require government issued identification (most commonly a driver's license) to obtain a job, to open a checking account, to use credit and debit cards, and to travel freely using TSA secured methods of transportation.

The lack of a driver's license or a government issued ID card is a significant barrier to their quality of life.

If you are indeed a legislator, could you help us with this plight?

I'm "on the road" right now and only able to log in intermittently, so it is difficult for me to keep up with all of the threads. If you need further information, or if I can be of help in persuing the possibility of this, please feel free to send me a private message. And if you reply to this, if you would send me a copy via private message I would most certainly appreciate that as well.

Have a very Merry Christmas and a very wonderful New Year!

Hugs,
Persephone.

Thanks for the response Persephone.
First of all, please allow me to clarify. I am not a legislator. I am a candidate for the top state wide office. I declared my candidacy at a local council meeting and am currently meeting some deep pocketed execs in the entertainment industry.
The reason I am here is I have some serious questions about how our society is treating those who are different from us. I reckon, in the case of women, we owe them a lot of backpay because of the pay descrepancies that have occurred throughout the last century with state condoning it.
I won't be able to address everything but I am interested in addressing civil rights issues facing transgendered people. In real life I don't know any transgendered people (or cross dressers for that matter).
Don't misunderstand me. I consider myself conservative in almost all social areas, but my primary loyalty is to the Constitution of the United States which says that all people are equal regardless of their genetic makeup or life values. If the state is looking the other way while a segment of our state/nation is being harrassed over a genetic component or belief system, then we have a serious situation that needs to fixed and redressed.

To address your specific question. Are you asking they be listed as female even though they are physically men, with the male parts? What might help with that is perhaps listing Transgender as a seperate gender on the license. Something along the lines of perhaps:
Male
Female
TG Female
TG Male
With the male/female following the TG being the gender you choose to identify as. This should also help with security checkpoints because it says that while you are male you choose to identify as female. At a minimum it should help reduce those personal checks at the airports. I hope that address your question to your satisfaction.

[vetobob9]

Was talking to someone about this on another venue of the web, and she was in some kind of minor political position, not real sure, but it seems the conservative religious groups are hard-core against us.

Random insults from idiots is one thing but I guess often the conservatives seem willing to fight against the rights of GLBT.

If you are interested in learning more about this, I believe there is some kind of political sub-forum, maybe ask one of the mods if you can join it to learn more. Me, I am not into politics and don't argue it since I don't keep up with it a lot.

Your assessment is somewhat correct. There are certain religoius conservative groups that actively involve themselves in the political process. But I have also noticed one of the things the opposers to CD/TG have in common is their unwillingness to learn or tolerate cultures different from their own.
Part of the answer is education but we also need to crackdown on people who instill bigotry in their children. Yet we have to be careful that we are not violating their right to raise their children in their chosen faith.
You said something about a political subforum?

[Nicole Erin]

Well now I feel dumb...
I was thinking there was one, it is instead in part a religious forum, another thing I don't get into.

My apology on that part...
Sorry to misguide :S

[Bridget Fitzgerald]

Most of us have had this pleasure...
In fact my latest one was the new hick neighbors were mocking me. Yeah I was coming in the house from my car and one of them was prancing up and down the sidewalk. Then him and some other guy started talking like they were gay. I just nodded and was like "How is it going?"
Well these guys have accents like Larry the cable guy.
Gyod our haters always seem to have that accent...

TG have many thoughts why people mock or hate us. But here is what I have concluded -

People that act like that probably truely do have some type of learning disorder. I cannot keep up with the latest names for it but I think maybe they suffer Down's syndrome. I mean they just don't know any better, much like a puppy doesn't know any better when it pees on the carpet. You get madder than hell at the puppy but you can't really punish it for not knowing any better.

I know it is aggrivating to get insulted when you get read, but what I am asking is to practice a little extra patience with society's slower memebers like the ones who think mocking or insulting us is OK. They have learning disabilities, they know that. They don't know any better. Many times they don't have all their teeth, or clean clothes, or an ability to articulate....

I am getting better. I used to hate my neighbors but I finally realised they are just imbeciles who should be felt sorry for.

This heart-felt thought was brought to you from the loving, compassionate, sensitive Erin :tongueout

So you stereotype anyone with a country or southern accent and minimize people with a learning disorder or downs syndrome by using those conditions as a "funny" insult, as opposed to something worthy of compassion like being tras-whatever and your neighbors are the bigots? Or was this just a rant and not an actual intellectual analysis?

[Shikyo]

To address your specific question. Are you asking they be listed as female even though they are physically men, with the male parts? What might help with that is perhaps listing Transgender as a seperate gender on the license. Something along the lines of perhaps:
Male
Female
TG Female
TG Male
With the male/female following the TG being the gender you choose to identify as. This should also help with security checkpoints because it says that while you are male you choose to identify as female. At a minimum it should help reduce those personal checks at the airports. I hope that address your question to your satisfaction.

I don't really see anything coming from adding two new genders to the cards. Partially because so many things would have to be changed because of that like what would the marriage condition be for a TG female(can they marry a man or would they have to go after their birth sex). Another issue would be that it would be much easier to point out them in the public. A lot of us don't want to go around shouting about these things. When I show my ID to someone, I don't want them to know about my personal things like me being a transsexual. It's only for identification purpose. If the sex becomes an issue, which it usually shouldn't one should get pass it by showing the diagnose or just explaining the situation. My ID still states male and I haven't gotten into trouble because of it even once despite me looking female.

One usually needs a diagnose or something similar to have your sex changed on papers. Isn't this already enough? I mean, even if they have still the male parts they're mentally female therefore their identification should state female instead of male. They live as female, they act like females only that their birth defect hasn't been corrected be it because of money or something else. It doesn't make them any less a female.

For example here in Finland changing your official sex is considered very private, which means that no one(for example banks, employers etc.) is allowed to keep a record of why your sex changed. They simply have to change it and that is all they are allowed to do. Only one place will keep this information for the purpose so that you can't avoid your debts or old crimes and other similar things. To access this information is very hard(even for the police as the information about your old crimes etc. is usually transferred to the new ID). All this is done to protect the person because this is something very personal and can be used against the person.

[vetobob9]

I don't really see anything coming from adding two new genders to the cards. Partially because so many things would have to be changed because of that like what would the marriage condition be for a TG female(can they marry a man or would they have to go after their birth sex). Another issue would be that it would be much easier to point out them in the public. A lot of us don't want to go around shouting about these things. When I show my ID to someone, I don't want them to know about my personal things like me being a transsexual. It's only for identification purpose. If the sex becomes an issue, which it usually shouldn't one should get pass it by showing the diagnose or just explaining the situation. My ID still states male and I haven't gotten into trouble because of it even once despite me looking female.

One usually needs a diagnose or something similar to have your sex changed on papers. Isn't this already enough? I mean, even if they have still the male parts they're mentally female therefore their identification should state female instead of male. They live as female, they act like females only that their birth defect hasn't been corrected be it because of money or something else. It doesn't make them any less a female.

For example here in Finland changing your official sex is considered very private, which means that no one(for example banks, employers etc.) is allowed to keep a record of why your sex changed. They simply have to change it and that is all they are allowed to do. Only one place will keep this information for the purpose so that you can't avoid your debts or old crimes and other similar things. To access this information is very hard(even for the police as the information about your old crimes etc. is usually transferred to the new ID). All this is done to protect the person because this is something very personal and can be used against the person.

Those are some important points. On the marriage issue, that is a private matter and I do not believe the state should be dictating to people who they can and can't marry. You should be allowed to marry whoever you choose, without regard for age, ethnicity, sex, gender, orientation, or religious affiliation. I've already come out with a document that will address that issue as soon as it recieves Senate approval which will be difficult because it also addresses hundreds of other issues. There is a new constitution that has been in the works for awhile now, that you'll probably be hearing about soon. This is a different proposal from the one being pushed by big business. It comes with new rights such as the right to electronic privacy and the right of marriage.
I also agree that banks and employers should not be allowed to access this type of information but I also believe it is necessary because your vulnerability to some diseases depends on whether you biologically have a Y chromosome. It is important for doctors and first responders to know if you had your sex surgically altered, your life may depend on it.
As for the TSA, we need to balance the right to security with the right to privacy.

[Shikyo]

Those are some important points. On the marriage issue, that is a private matter and I do not believe the state should be dictating to people who they can and can't marry. You should be allowed to marry whoever you choose, without regard for age, ethnicity, sex, gender, orientation, or religious affiliation. I've already come out with a document that will address that issue as soon as it recieves Senate approval which will be difficult because it also addresses hundreds of other issues. There is a new constitution that has been in the works for awhile now, that you'll probably be hearing about soon. This is a different proposal from the one being pushed by big business. It comes with new rights such as the right to electronic privacy and the right of marriage.


I'm rather sure a lot of people would love it to be like this but sadly, there are also rather a lot of people who are against it. Not only people, but also a group of people also known as the Church. They are dead said against same sex marriages. In the world there aren't all that many places where same sex marriages are even allowed.

There are also other issues that would have to be dealt with like the immigration issues with transgendered people. If I recall correctly, for example for U.S. immigration even if you are legally married, but you've changed your sex you cannot immigrate to U.S. based on marriage because your birth sex the same as your spouses. However, if your legal sex would be the same as your spouses you couldn't immigrate either because same-sex marriage aren't allowed etc.

I also agree that banks and employers should not be allowed to access this type of information but I also believe it is necessary because your vulnerability to some diseases depends on whether you biologically have a Y chromosome. It is important for doctors and first responders to know if you had your sex surgically altered, your life may depend on it.
As for the TSA, we need to balance the right to security with the right to privacy.

Those were only few examples, there are a lot more people who shouldn't be able to look into information like this like security guards, the police when they are checking your ID etc. With the two new genders it would be easy for everyone who is able to look into your ID tell that you're transgendered. Would you want the cashier knowing about your past when you buy a beer or a cigarettes? Or the lady at the customer service when you are picking up your package? There are so many places that don't need to know about this at all. Even among doctors there is often no need for them to know about your past. For example, dentists have no need to know about it or shrinks(unless you are going there because of your transgenderism).

Even though doctors might have some reasons to know about your birth sex, it doesn't mean that all of them should have access to it without problem. There aren't all that many disease that are chromosome orientated. Not to forget that your doctor will most like know about your transgenderism even without you telling them simply because you need to get your prescription for the hormones from somewhere. These diseases should be rather are anyway.

My main problem with people, even doctors, having access to information like this is that it makes it more vulnerable for misuse. I don't have a problem telling a doctor about my transsexuality but I don't want them to be able to check it from something else just like that. Especially as if doctors have access to them that also means that nurses can get access to it. It's just information that can be misused so easily, so one doesn't want it to be kept anywhere easily available.

Besides, when there is something they can't solve, they usually go through all possibilities anyway. Latest than the patient himself/herself can tell about the birth sex. At least I've never heard of a disease that is based on chromosome that can kill you fast.

EDIT: Almost forgot. What does TSA mean?

[Shikyo]

Transportaion security administration. It's an American thing, thank your diety you don't HAVE to know.

I guessed more or less correctly in what direction it was going to go but I just wasn't sure what it was about. *giggles* Thank you for the explanation though.


The jokers that let a man on a plane with a bomb strapped to himself today:

http://www.tsa.gov/

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_airliner_disturbance

DESPITE clearly stating his born gender, the man was STILL SOMEHOW able to sneak a little something past them.

That is the point my dear. He was not disguised in the opposite sex so they couldn't pick him out on the line.


Freaking jokers.

Maybe it's just me because I was playing Batman Arkham Asylum a while ago, but I could swore I just heard the joker from it laughing out loud.


Let's think about this for a second... (just got out of a heated discussion with my wife over this) how is "imitating" a female going to help one of these guys? You can't conceal something under a short skirt... tight pants... tights... ohhhhh.... my bad, it's the chest, isn't it?

It's the chest of course. There is no way in the world is real, you know. One day they'll end up pulling on everyone's chest becuase they think it's not real. I can already see the bloody mess with my little kitty eyes. *giggles*

But yeah, there isn't really much help dressing as a girl would do for them. The breasts would be about the only thing that might work as an advantage but if they accidentally put a wired bra on they most like end up having to take it off anyway, especially if their ID states they're male.

Wait...there is something else that just got into my mind. The high heels, especially stiletto ones, have a metal in the heel to make it sure that it won't break. They want to use that as a weapon for sure!


Come on, how hard do we have to work to pass (in general, not you lucky ones)? Do you really think some Arabian man is going to stick a dress on and pass flawlessly? Really? Every eye on the plane will be watching "him." PLEASE do dress as a female, it will be that much easier for teh good "guys."

C'mon...be little more serious here. Just think about how much easier time they have passing. Let's start with those nice thick eye brows they have. What about the strong hair growth they have too? Or the very masculine features(body shape) that often even Arabic females have? Aren't you already feeling the jealousy? I mean they gotta have some professional courses for dressing as the opposite sex so that they can master it even better than they already can with the body of theirs. It gotta be in part 2 of the bomb course they go through.


Sorry to rant, the airlines just aggravate me to no end.

Nah, no need to apologize for that. On the other hand, I should apologize for whatever I wrote today. My only excuse is that I just got up and my mind is still kinda out of it.

[PretzelGirl]

Transportaion security administration. It's an American thing, thank your diety you don't HAVE to know.

The jokers that let a man on a plane with a bomb strapped to himself today:

http://www.tsa.gov/

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_airliner_disturbance

DESPITE clearly stating his born gender, the man was STILL SOMEHOW able to sneak a little something past them.

Freaking jokers.


Not to mess with a good rant, but unless I am missing something, this plane came from outside the US. Has nothing to do with TSA then.

[msginaadoll]

Wow Ive been watching this thread go by with interest. It went from being insulted because you are transgender to the saintliness of Down's syndrome children to a religious debate. Ya got to love this room. Throw in some politics- wait I think that was discussed and it is complete. But in the end we are all all just folks relating on a written forum and hopefully trying to understand each other and maybe even suport each other a little. It is hard to judge the content or character of the heart when u dont know the person, and cant even see there physicial expressions, inflections, etc. So I guess Im saying in the immortal words of Rodney King,, "Can't we all just get along?"

[Astrid Star]

Most of us have had this pleasure...
In fact my latest one was the new hick neighbors were mocking me. Yeah I was coming in the house from my car and one of them was prancing up and down the sidewalk. Then him and some other guy started talking like they were gay. I just nodded and was like "How is it going?"
Well these guys have accents like Larry the cable guy.
Gyod our haters always seem to have that accent...


Assuming that these two things are true, first, that they were mocking you and second, that they are new to the neighbourhood, you should have educated them about these facts:

* They are new to the neighbourhood and should treat the residence that are already established there with some respect. That is common sense.

* Who knows what kind of dangerous mistake they could be making by insulting you, who despite being "different", might be well regarded by your other neighbours.

* It is detrimental to the sense of community and is very unpatriotic to insult a fellow citizen.

* It is counter-productive to an advanced society having people insult someone on the basis of their appearance, when the said person could be much more useful in every manner than the person doing the mocking. In this sense, you should question them about their direction in life and how they view society and how to contribute to it positively. If their views are more likely to subtract from the sum-total of human knowledge rather than benefit it, then explain to them that instead of insulting you that they should be kneeling before you in exhaltation of your superiority.

I am sorry for my rant by I despise idiots such as the ones that you have described and that is generally how I go about responding to insults.

Astrid

[Shikyo]

Kitty, I love your sense of humor. Thank you for breaking that up and making me giggle.

I'm glad at least someone could make a use out of my half asleep state when I was writing that text there.


Last night, after this posting, I realized that a large part of my feelings on this had to do with my ID. When going out, I always have to have cash handy, which I am not used to, as it causes great anxiety to think of being carded when trying to use my credit/debit cards (which cashiers in LA are prone to doing.) Can't telll you how many times I've done the nervous dance in line, after forgetting cash.

Be happy that you aren't in Finland. Over here if you pay with your card and the amount you buy goes over certain limits you also have to show your ID and the cashier is going to write down the last four digits of your identification number(which itself already has the sex included and is really easy to read out from it).