On being stealth

[kellycan27]

In a recent thread regarding support from the LBGT community I commented that as a transsexual ( my own personal position) I feel that I am just passing through. Transitioning isn't something I do part time, or when the mood strikes me, it's is a means to an end. Some people are of the opinion that we who are stealth (or at least attempt to be) are distancing ourselves from the "TG" community, and that we should be doing more in support.
The truth of the matter is that it's a pretty good bet that once I complete my transition, I'll probably just fade away into the woodwork ..... never to be heard from again by the the LBGT community. Here's the question...........
Am I being selfish because I have the desire to live my life unmolested, or as not to be a curiosity? A lot of you can move back and forth between being cross dressed or in drab. When not dressed you have the ability to live your normal everyday life, and you can keep your secret life...secret. So shouldn't we be able to keep our secret life secret? Some of us just want to our TS lives in the same way you live your drab lives. Any thoughts?

Kelly

[Stephanie Michelle]

I think once you transition you are a female. You shouldn't have to be classified as anything else. It is up to you should you want to continue with the LBGT community. I still think you should support them but it doesn't have to be in public. The bottom line is its your life and we should respect your decisions.

Stephanie Michelle

[Deborah Jane]

I understand what you saying Kelly and agree with you completely. I think whether you choose to be a "figurehead" for the trans community or not should be entirely your own choice. I have recently started on the same journey as you are on and like you will fade into obscurity at some point to live my life in as normal a way as possible.
Though I will still support the trans community in some way, I won't draw unnecessary attention to myself.

[CharleneT]

I also agree with the idea of "...passing thru...". I consider transition to be exactly that, a period of time as we transit from one state to another. When done, I surely hope that I can just live a life as a woman. I think that this is an important distinction between TS folks and most of the rest of the TG "tent".

Now, in my case, I fully realize some parts of my life will not likely go that way. My intention is to stay right where I am and enjoy the town I have lived in for nearly 30 years. BUT it is a small University town and so long time residents will probably think of me as a tranny for life. The silver lining is that since it is a University town, people move on frequently. Time is on my side ;)

I know a couple of post-op MTF's here. One still will go to TG events and the like, although she is struggling with wanting to just be thought of as a woman. Her plans include moving away in the future, to get somewhere they don't know her history. The other one came here after transition and only a few people know her TS status. She is just living a life otherwise.

Will I ever be able to think of myself as just a lady - or - will my head always answer TS.... ??

[carolinoakland]

I understand and agree with much about what you wrote. I am just under a year full time and I view stealth as exchanging living in the closet afraid with living in fear as stealth. The fear that some day, some where, someone, will pop up with that past and everything will crumble. I look like a woman, thank goodness, but I AM taller than most women. But for me the issue is that I transitioned in place at work, and made history doing it, so I'm just too notorious to be stealth. But I will live my womans life, and not worry about the haters. I have a second job that I got post transition, so it's sort of stealth, I don't have the pronoun problems or 'old' name issue's. And it's so liberating, so I do understand what living stealth would be like, and it's attraction for those that can look that good. But. Eventually you will want to let someone in, and then what? I prefer to be a woman, any one I let close enough to know my past, will be understanding enough to still love and accept me. Till that one day...

[sherri52]

You should do as you feel. Once you have transitioned you become female and nothing else. You are no longer a cd/tg/ts. We would hope that you even if incognito would still be able to answer some questions for those about to take the same journey as yourself. It is your life and you should live it fully but it would be nice if others could benefit from your experience.

[kellycan27]

I understand what you saying Kelly and agree with you completely. I think whether you choose to be a "figurehead" for the trans community or not should be entirely your own choice. I have recently started on the same journey as you are on and like you will fade into obscurity at some point to live my life in as normal a way as possible.
Though I will still support the trans community in some way, I won't draw unnecessary attention to myself.

Supporting the TG community.. while being stealth? Some won't see that as doing enough because you are not making yourself visable. Visability was one of the main points of this thread.

Kel

[kellycan27]

I understand and agree with much about what you wrote. I am just under a year full time and I view stealth as exchanging living in the closet afraid with living in fear as stealth. The fear that some day, some where, someone, will pop up with that past and everything will crumble. I look like a woman, thank goodness, but I AM taller than most women. But for me the issue is that I transitioned in place at work, and made history doing it, so I'm just too notorious to be stealth. But I will live my womans life, and not worry about the haters. I have a second job that I got post transition, so it's sort of stealth, I don't have the pronoun problems or 'old' name issue's. And it's so liberating, so I do understand what living stealth would be like, and it's attraction for those that can look that good. But. Eventually you will want to let someone in, and then what? I prefer to be a woman, any one I let close enough to know my past, will be understanding enough to still love and accept me. Till that one day...

"Eventually you will want to let someone in"? Why would that be? Living in stealth has nothing to do with fear, or shame,it has to do with just being to live my life as anyone else.

[tori-e]

I think that passing through is a good way to put it. A few years ago I spent a lot of time in forums and support groups. Now frankly I just want to live my life. In parts of my life people know that I am trans only because they new before I transitioned. Anyone new that I meet will have to draw their own conclusions. As far as I can figure none of them know I'm trans. I am however married to a woman and have no intention of trying to hide that. So in a roundabout way, as a lesbian, I'm still LGBT.

After you have transitioned you do get tired of talking about hormones and coming out. This is a big deal when it's happening, but like learning to drive, it's not such a big deal after you've had your license for a while.

So I guess I'm one of those stealthy people that supports the community but is not so active anymore.

Terri

[Fab Karen]

There are two concepts of "stealth"- the I suspect small faction of ( mtf ) TS's who talk of cutting off friends & family and creating a fictional history, pretending even to intimate partners that their body was always female. They have to live their life forever praying it doesn't turn into a Jerry Springer episode.
Then there is a more natural idea of it, not discussing your history with co-workers and friends ( though true close friends will at some point ask about your life growing up ).
As to the question of being publically out & supporting the community, I'd say that's a personal choice. For example, there are gay people who support the community in many ways yet aren't out at work or to some friends/family.
"keeping your secret life secret" - yes, but you can read many instances here of CD's wives/SO's feeling very hurt & betrayed once they found out.

[AllieSF]

I view life sometimes ase a pendulum that goes from one end, far side, extreme to the other. I believe, even though I may disagree with tactics used and sometimes even the "cause" supported and fought for, that both extremes are necessary to give the rest of us (Cissy's "bell curve") a somewhat comfortable zone where we fit in and can live out lives as we see fit.

Taking that to the LGBT scenario, there are those that are out there in everyone's face pushing for whatever they think is important and the others (the "Silent Majority" maybe?) who do not raise a finger nor do anything to activiely support some cuase that may be good for them. The extreme, in my opinion is needed to get the ball rolling and make others, including ourselves, aware of where we are at and what is needed to advance our position in the overall society. I personally am somewhere in the middle of that bell curve. I never have, and probably never will, actively and publicly take up the cause (any cause). However, since I do go out regularly and very actively interface with others everywhere in the public (I am a very much so "Chatty Cathy"), straight, non-straight, locals and tourists and anyone else I can corral for a good conversation while dressed up, I think I am an excellent ambassador for the overall cause of getting people to know us better, and thus understand us and our activities better, and in the end maybe accept us more.

Taking all that to the TS level and the before, during and after transition phases, I think that each of us should live our own life as best that we can. If we can and "want" to actively join in, fine. If not, that is fine too.

Kelly, I see no reason to force or coerce someone like you, or anyone for that matter, to take up the cause or to continue in the cause. Life is hard enough as it is. There comes a time for many of us to just get on with living and enjoying, and move away from the front or even middle lines and all the associated confrontation that it generates.

[Lorileah]

I look at it a bit differently Kelly. Yes when you finish transitioning and have SRS and the legal change of everything, you will be a woman. But should you then just abandon the whole TG network? No. You should still be a part of working towards equality and fairness for those who follow. Just because you reached your destination is no reason to say "To heck with everyone else. I have mine I don't need to help you get yours." Will you forget that you were part of the group who may not get a job or keep a job once the boss finds out they are TG? Will you forget that you were once a person who wasn't considered an equal on employment, health care, marriage or many other things (BTW you will still be paid less and treated less than equal...just because you are a woman..so you won't be at your final destination either).

I really dislike the whole idea of saying "I pass" or "I can get by without notice" so you don't have to work toward making the world a better place for those who are in similar circumstances. It keeps getting back (in this particular instance) to civil rights. That would include race, religion, creed, color and sex. Many people COULD go about their day not expressing their religious feelings, but they "Believe" in something. So the Hasidic community wears hats and doesn't cut their hair. They could and not be chastised or disparaged. They could very easily hide in the house and no one would be the wiser. Some people of color could "Pass" (See why I hate that word?) as Caucasian. Should they abandon the others, maybe even their own family, because they "can" blend in? Just because you are now or can be a member of the majority, should you quit trying to make things " right"? You see it isn't a trip that just ends. It is a trip that has new paths.

The attitude that you are not a part of something when you reach a new point is in my opinion wrong and short sighted. Especially when where you came from has struggles that still need to be rectified. It is typically American to have tunnel vision and to be selfish and not care. People came here from places where they were persecuted and shunned, maybe even killed for their beliefs. They wanted a better world and they found it. How did they respond? Not by remembering who they were or where they came from. They persecuted, disparaged, belittled and yes finally killed those who were here when they arrived. Later Europeans came here seeking a better life. They found ghettos and poverty and many worked their way out of that and after a generation they too were able to look down on the next wave that sought a better life. Americans are very good at forgetting. They are very good at when they get what they want, trying to deprive someone else that same right.

Should you give up on your past when you reach your destination? You could. But you shouldn't. Sure you will be a woman. Your papers that you show in daily life will say so, but you know that somewhere there will be more papers that say you were once a man. And there may well be a group in power someday that will not be tolerant of you. This can be more likely if you blow off the rest of the world because you got what you wanted. You won't be there when they try and start by saying...you can't wear this (you are a woman so you can)....you can't go there (you aren't gay so you can)...you can't be seen in public (maybe here is where you start to worry)...you can't vote....you can't be married...you can't hold that job. You let all that happen because you quit when you had your surgery. But pendulums swing. Things change and they don't always progress. Sometimes they regress. Sometimes people get power who shouldn't. We don't learn from history and we repeat it.

So when you get what you want, don't fight anymore. After all, it will be OK..maybe

[Byanca]

I would go stealth. I dont think I would tell if I could get away with it. That would actually be my point, would not want to be reminded of it. And my memory from my past is rather weak anyhow, so an easy decision.

I might want to help others in a way though, if I could, and gotten my own life sorted out, and not in the danger zone any more.

[sempervirens]

I still think you should support them but it doesn't have to be in public.
I agree with this. It's my unpopular opinion that just as we've benefitted from those who've come before us, we too have an obligation to those transitioning now and those who'll do so in the future. I don't think, though, that that support should have to be visible, or that transition should jeopardize the choice to go stealth. We should remember others, how blessed we are, and try and help when we can. It's only natural that we'll all have different comfort levels, but it doesn't have to be "all or nothing," where you're either giving back while living out or reneging on moral responsibility. Again, just my opinion :).

[Aubrey Green]

Kelly, I was always raised to respect people as who they are. Had we met on the street, I would have treated you with the same respect as any woman. Had I been going out a door as you were going in, I would hold it open for you (and then checked you out big time!!)
Bottom line is, if I run into anyone here, on the street and they are enfemme, I would treat them as the lady, they wish to be treated as. If they are in drab, I'll invite them to a sports bar for a burger and a hockey game! I never have and will not treat them any different then the others around. Respect goes a long way towards confidence in the individual, wether they be CD, TS or TG.
I hold your opinions in high regard, because you are following what you know is right and I have alot of respect for that.

[kellycan27]

I won't be there? I am there now,all of my life people have been telling me what I can and cannot do, but I never let that stop me. You want civil rights and laws protecting against discrimination? Get them on the ballot, I'll vote for them, but I'll do it as a caring and compassionate "person", not as a transsexual or even a woman. Is my vote going to weigh more because I am a transsexual? Is there a square marked on the ballot for TS? practically everything that you mentioned in your post is the obligation of the "people".
But for some, that's not good enough, they feel that we should should be out there waving flags and drawing attention to ourselves, and I don't want to draw attention to myself in that way anymore.I can and will do my part, as a human being that understands that discrimination is wrong and that everyone should be treated equally.
Kel

[GypsyKaren]

One thing I see a lot is the people who complain about transitioners for "turning their backs" on everyone else are those who are staying in the safety of their privacy, I don't think I've ever seen a complaint from someone who's actually out in the open. It's very easy to say "I'd do this and you should do that" when the gun is pointed at someone else's head, and it's very easy to tell others to carry the protest signs while your hands stay safely tucked in your pockets.

No one is under any obligation to do anything, period. It's their lives and they have the right to live it as they choose, and without having to explain or justify it to anyone. You don't know what these people went through to get to where they are now, and it's also none of your business.

I stay here to help others because that's my choice, I help others out in the open world because that's my choice, and anyone telling me that I have any sort of obligation is going to have a problem they can't handle.

Karen

[Andy66]

Kelly, I see no reason to force or coerce someone like you, or anyone for that matter, to take up the cause or to continue in the cause. Life is hard enough as it is. There comes a time for many of us to just get on with living and enjoying, and move away from the front or even middle lines and all the associated confrontation that it generates.
I agree. You have done a lot to help others already. It would sadden me a little to see you go, but you have your own path to walk.

[kellycan27]

There are two concepts of "stealth"- the I suspect small faction of ( mtf ) TS's who talk of cutting off friends & family and creating a fictional history, pretending even to intimate partners that their body was always female. They have to live their life forever praying it doesn't turn into a Jerry Springer episode.
Then there is a more natural idea of it, not discussing your history with co-workers and friends ( though true close friends will at some point ask about your life growing up ).
As to the question of being publically out & supporting the community, I'd say that's a personal choice. For example, there are gay people who support the community in many ways yet aren't out at work or to some friends/family.
"keeping your secret life secret" - yes, but you can read many instances here of CD's wives/SO's feeling very hurt & betrayed once they found out.

Keeping it from my SO wasn't an option, nor would I have done it had it been.
Looks like he will be at my side for the long haul. As for people asking about my growing up.. The story you are about to hear is true,only the gender has been changed to protect the innocent.:whistling:

[Zenith]

I was asked this question in front of an audience during my talk to the medical school...frankly it's a tough one.

The final goal is to be the woman in your heart (not a trans-woman). And yet you cannot deny where you came from, or your existence.

I was asked by the head of counseling support services at the MedCenter (again during my talk) what they could do as an institution to support those transitioning. Then it really dawned on me that I have a chance to make things better for those following me. That's a big responsibility...

I don't plan on advertising. But if I can help by being visible I will.

Edit: The talk was recorded and the DVD placed in the medical school library...so in a sense the ship has sailed...there is a record of me being a transsexual...but I thought it to be too great an opportunity to educate.

[LisaM]

Good luck, Kelly! I think I would be 'passing thru' if I had the courage as well.

[pamela_a]

I should probably wait until the Pamprin kicks in but I'll start this anyway.

If there is one thing that has really gotten to me since I started my transition is the constant whining of the people who want me to do everything for them because they're too lazy or scared to do it themselves
Lorileah, I'm not picking on you but since you were the one who brought this up I will address it to you.
Your profile doesn't state if you are TS and have transitioned or not. If you have,based on your assertions, I would expect that you greet everyone you meet something like: "Hi, my name is Lorileah and I'm not really a genetic woman I'm a transexual and the name I was born with was..... How are you?" because

Should you give up on your past when you reach your destination? You could. But you shouldn't. Sure you will be a woman. Your papers that you show in daily life will say so, but you know that somewhere there will be more papers that say you were once a man.
If you do this then I humbly apologize and acknowledge you are stronger than I will ever be. If not, don't you dare tell me I have to.


And there may well be a group in power someday that will not be tolerant of you. This can be more likely if you blow off the rest of the world because you got what you wanted. You won't be there when they try and start by saying...you can't wear this (you are a woman so you can)....you can't go there (you aren't gay so you can)...you can't be seen in public (maybe here is where you start to worry)...you can't vote....you can't be married...you can't hold that job. You let all that happen because you quit when you had your surgery. But pendulums swing. Things change and they don't always progress. Sometimes they regress. Sometimes people get power who shouldn't. We don't learn from history and we repeat it.
So what are you saying here? If I don't stand on the street corner proclaiming to everyone I'm trans that I won't be able to vote for who I want elected? I won't be able to work for the candidate of my choice? I won't have a voice at all???? Oh Please

I was inspired for the next part from a great book titled "How to Loose Friends and Alienate People" by Toby Young
To those who haven't got the intestinal fortitude to even attempt to climb out of the closet much less attempt to transition and live full time: Quit whining and shut up!
It's MY life. I'm the one who is transitioning. I'm the one who's living 24/7/365 as a woman. That is my contribution to "the cause". Am I thankful for those who have gone before me? Without a doubt I am. Will I help a sister who is having trouble? In a NY minute without a second thought. Do I intend to stand on the corner announcing to the world I'm trans and holding on to the pain of my life before I transitioned? Not a chance in He**!!

For those who are complaining about "stealth"? What is that? Stealth is not being seen right? I'm out in the world every day, living my life as who I am, a woman. There is no stealth about it. I'm not hiding anything. All of the professional links, contacts, and associations I had before I transitioned are now in the name of Pamela. I didn't "rebuild" my history I changed the name and forged on. I'm not telling you that's what you have to do but don't you dare tell me what I have to do unless you're willing to do it also.

[kellycan27]

I was asked this question in front of an audience during my talk to the medical school...frankly it's a tough one.

The final goal is to be the woman in your heart (not a trans-woman). And yet you cannot deny where you came from, or your existence.

I was asked by the head of counseling support services at the MedCenter (again during my talk) what they could do as an institution to support those transitioning. Then it really dawned on me that I have a chance to make things better for those following me. That's a big responsibility...

I don't plan on advertising. But if I can help by being visible I will.

Edit: The talk was recorded and the DVD placed in the medical school library...so in a sense the ship has sailed...there is a record of me being a transsexual...but I thought it to be too great an opportunity to educate.

Sounds like a wonderful opportunity Zenith, and I think it would be of great educational value for others as well as for yourself. As for myself, my life is moving in a different direction. The road has been difficult as I am sure you know, and I feel that that I owe it to myself and my soon to be husband to some day in the near future put my past behind me to the extent that it has as little impact as possible on our relationship. I will never forget where I came from or a lot of the wonderful people that I have met here and along the way, whether it by by keeping in touch or as a fond memory. I wish you the best of luck... You're a better man than me Charlie Brown. Go get em tiger!:heehee:
Kel

[Stephenie S]

Hmmm. Interesting.

Of course, in this electronic day and age, the concept of total stealth is a foolish conceit. It can't and won't happen. My birth certificate, for instance, has the original information just crossed out and the new information handwritten in above the line. But, does that mean we can't just go about our lives in peace and harmony? No it doesn't. One doesn't announce ones' sexuality at every meeting, and one does not need to announce ones' gender history either.

I live as stealth as I can. I identify myself as a woman because I am a woman. I say, "When I was a little girl . . . .", and, "When I was at Girl Scout camp". I have to do this because I have to maintain my identity as who I really am. If I had to switch genders to talk about my past, it would drive me crazy. Not really crazy, of course, but it would seriously interfere with my ability to function in the world as a woman. "Oh, when I was a little boy", would sound ridiculous. There will come a time when I move on from here. Others are already taking up my issues and I hear my ideas coming back from others on this forum younger than I. There will come a time when I will say, "My work here is done".

Can I maintain this absolutely? Of course not. My doctor knows, my ex knows, my family knows, and now all of YOU know, but this just doesn't come up in daily life, nor do I want it to. To the world, I am woman. That's all. I have not abandoned the TG community. What am I doing here? But I am unlikely to women a TG support booth at the local Pride Parade. What I am likely to do, and what I DO do, is to support WOMEN'S issues where ever I can.

And we can ALWAYS suport fairness and equality for all for the rest of our lives. That's what this is all about anyway. How about showing some support for universal healthcare? There are 40 million women in the United States without ANY health care at all. Is that equality? Instead we rant and rave about "death panels" and "denying benifits to grandma", two accusations backed and financed solely by the multi billion dollar insurance industry and their lobyists. Uh oh, Stephenie. Better not go there. You are changing the subject.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[pamela_a]

And we can ALWAYS suport fairness and equality for all for the rest of our lives. That's what this is all about anyway. How about showing some support for universal healthcare? There are 40 million women in the United States without ANY health care at all. Is that equality? Instead we rant and rave about "death panels" and "denying benifits to grandma", two accusations backed and financed solely by the multi billion dollar insurance industry and their lobyists. Uh oh, Stephenie. Better not go there. You are changing the subject.
Thank you for not going there and continuing to propagate the inaccurate information you have already espoused financed soley by the people who want to completely control your life (you know, politicians)

[Lorileah]

Lorileah, I'm not picking on you but since you were the one who brought this up I will address it to you.
Your profile doesn't state if you are TS and have transitioned or not.

lets not get into labels. This isn't about that. What Kelly was asserting was that when she did finish transitioning she may not wish to have anything to do with those who either haven't yet or will not. I was saying that when you do (if you do) and you decide to turn your back on the others behind you, was the wrong path. Similar to saying "I got mine...you are now on your own" Here again you as a TS have made yourself different. There are many of us here who may have transitioned if circumstances were different. I have been called a perfectionist (which maybe why I see things differently on this question) and I would not have had teh surgery ever 15 years ago because the results were inadequate. So am I TS? Was I TS? Does it matter? I see this as a rights issue not a "what am I" issue. You in essence discount my stance because I won't get surgery.


If not, don't you dare tell me I have to.
No one said you "had" to, just that you should consider how you got where you are and the human thing would be to help those that follow. I respect Gypsy Karen here because she IS staying to help. Because she cares about "you" TS's who are finding the path more difficult or confusing. Kelly, as I read her OP, basically said that when she was done she was done with the community. I don't think that is the correct way and it isn't what I would do. But that's me. I would say the majority of post-ops go away and don't give a second thought to those they left behind. Yet there are many states who still say you can't marry, you can't get benefits even after surgery so don't you think you should stand up for those rights?



So what are you saying here? If I don't stand on the street corner proclaiming to everyone I'm trans that I won't be able to vote for who I want elected? I won't be able to work for the candidate of my choice? I won't have a voice at all???? Oh Please

Nope didn't say you had to stand anywhere. You can do it quietly but you should do it. It is the "right" thing. But you don't have to do anything. And it will be OK. Because there are some out there who will do the "Right" thing to protect your rights.


I was inspired for the next part from a great book titled "How to Loose Friends and Alienate People" by Toby Young
To those who haven't got the intestinal fortitude to even attempt to climb out of the closet much less attempt to transition and live full time: Quit whining and shut up!

Once again you are making the assumption that all WANT to transition to being a woman. This isn't about having a surgery, it is about making things even no matter what you present (sorry, I guess I am still in the 60's when people wanted a better world for everyone, not just a few)

It's MY life. I'm the one who is transitioning. I'm the one who's living 24/7/365 as a woman. That is my contribution to "the cause". Am I thankful for those who have gone before me? Without a doubt I am. Will I help a sister who is having trouble? In a NY minute without a second thought. Do I intend to stand on the corner announcing to the I'm trans and holding on to the pain of my life before I transitioned? Not a chance in He**!!

You are doing what I read that Kelly wouldn't do. You are doing what I said should be done. The interweb is a wonderful thing and we read things into things that are not as the writer intended, Maybe Kelly would be there for a "sister" but quietly behind the scenes. I read it as once the stitches are out she wasn't playing anymore.

I appreciate your passion. If you are working to make the playing field even, then I support you. But the attitude of "you can't know because I am a TS and you are not" is concerning, Like I said maybe I misread the OP but I think we are all in this together. They are not TS rights vs human rights. I am a WASP male. I have the power. I should not try and change what I see as wrong? Status quo is good for me. I don't have to be a certain race. I don't have to be a certain sex, religion, whatever to try and make things better. Your inference that it is otherwise is off mark. But I will quit trying to get you the right to marry if you like.

In fact, I see your point so...I am done with this thread

[Sara82]

If Kelly, or any other TS women who has finished transitioning has the ability to then blend into society as a normal woman, I don't see how it is any business of ours whether they choose to continue to support the LGBT community.

But on a much more specific level, I could see where this type of attitude could lead to abuse, by using others as a stepping stone to reach a final goal. Kelly I'm not accusing you of this, but I could definately see this as a possibilty for others.

For example, consider the hypothetical TS girl, we will call her Jane.

Jane is mid transition, has made a lot of new friends and connections in the Trans and gay community, many of them providing her support, love, and anything else she might need during these troubled times. She is luckily enough to finish her transition, and is easily passable as a woman, and decides to then just severe all her ties with these fine people she met, who are now looking for her for a little reciprocation. She is now above them, she has gotten all she needs from them, and now has moved on.

[AllieSF]

Hi Julia,

I understand your point. However, I really believe that we should all give when and how we can and not expect anything at all in return. It is similar to the movie a few years ago, "Paying It Forward". You do something nice for someone, don't expect anything in return, and only request that the aided person recipricate in kind to someone else. Will someone take advantage of that, yes, they do that in all facets of life. Should we stop "paying it forward" because of that? No, not at all. We should just continue to be ourselves and do what we can.

This is not addressed specifically to you, Julie.

Regarding the process of transitioning, from what I have learned it can only be a very dramatic, trauma inducing, liberating experience and long journey. It may be easy for some, but I would guess that it is very difficult for most. I haven't been through it and don't expect to either. I do know some that are in that process. Each is taking their own route at their own speed, and those that I know are suffering as the go step by step forward into their new life. They deserve to do what they want, not what others expect them to do.

Why should we expect those that go before us to continue being actively involved? Kelly, anyone who decide to become less active and participate less or not, and those of us who never have carried the flag have all the right to do what they think is best for them and are not abandoning anyone. No one knows for sure, not Kelly, nor anyone else, what they may be doing down the road of time.

I do not want anyone telling me what to do, period. I will make my own decisions to participate, or not. Who knows, I may not be in agreement with others opinions and what should be done. Would it be better if more participated? Yes, I do believe that. But does anyone really want someone on their team who was pressured by one or many to be there in the first place? I think not. It sure doesn't work in the corporate world. The best results come from the volunteers who want to participate. Peer pressure can easily lead to dissatisfaction, frustration and, worse yet, alienation.

Lorileah, I appreciate that you live by the book and appear from your posts to practice what you preach. Good for you and I respect that. However, someone else may follow a different but similar book. Does that make them a worse person? I don't think so. I have no problem with a request to stay involved. However, you seem to be demanding that, and that is where I draw the line.

[Deborah_UK]

I couldn't do do "stealth" even if I wanted to - I am transitioning in my current job and all my friends and colleagues at work know, and have been tremendously supportive. I have also told friends of over 30 years and their responses have been tear inducing (in a good way!!)

Are you suggesting that I should cut myself off from all that?

And within the T community I have made friends, although I will not need the outlet of going to the gay club the meetings are held at, I will still go, not because I need to, but because I want to. I'm not going to stand up and be a high profile activist for T rights, I am a woman who wants to live her life, and that includes staying with friends.

[kellycan27]

I couldn't do do "stealth" even if I wanted to - I am transitioning in my current job and all my friends and colleagues at work know, and have been tremendously supportive. I have also told friends of over 30 years and their responses have been tear inducing (in a good way!!)

Are you suggesting that I should cut myself off from all that?

And within the T community I have made friends, although I will not need the outlet of going to the gay club the meetings are held at, I will still go, not because I need to, but because I want to. I'm not going to stand up and be a high profile activist for T rights, I am a woman who wants to live her life, and that includes staying with friends.

That is all good, but some will put you in the same category as me.. in that you don't want to be a visible supporter of the LGBT community, and that you are remiss if you don't. You said it yourself...I am not going to be a high profile activist for "T" rights. I basically said the same thing, and people read into it what they wish. I don't plan on walking away from friends and family, but I do plan on walking away from any kind of visible activism in the LGBT community. Some people seem to think that I have an obligation to stay and fight their fight. To be perfectly honest I have never in my entire life been involved in any cd,tg,ts,gay or what have you group other than the 10 months that I have been a member of this forum. I have never asked for a lick of help from anyone here, and I believe that what I have done on my own in just being a visible productive member of the community for the past 5 years, living, working and playing... has been way more than some of the people that are now looking down on me because I wish to remove myself from public scrutiny and live a peaceful existence... Just a woman, like you wish to be.

[kellycan27]

But on a much more specific level, I could see where this type of attitude could lead to abuse, by using others as a stepping stone to reach a final goal. Kelly I'm not accusing you of this, but I could definately see this as a possibilty for others.

What about the people who wish to see the LGBT community to advance, but are either too scared, or for whatever reason cannot or will not stand up and fight, but would rather let someone else take the chances? They want me to be in the limelight, but heaven forbid they they open their mouths. You go ahead Kelly and we'll wait right here and see how you fare. So who's using who as a stepping stone? Who is being abused?

[Sharon]

There is no right or wrong here as I see it. It's wonderful that there are those who want to be there for those following their footsteps, giving back what was provided for them on their own transitioning journey. But there are also those who just want to live the lives they have fought so long to obtain.

Frankly, I know of a few post-transitioning or post-surgery people who I would only wish would go away and not be involved with other's lives because they just aren't up to it or really give a damn at all about anyone else other than themselves.

[Katelyn]

There are some very interesting replies here. Some I agree with fully, and some partially. Here's my personal opinion though. Back to your original question, is it selfish of you to live your life as if you had been born with a female body instead of having people around you know you weren't and will see you as being strange for have been born a male? That's hat I believe you're trying to say. To that question, I'd have to say, no you're not selfish. I believe there are many ways you can support the LGBT community without raising suspicion with the people around you. This forum for example. Others can learn from your experiences like I have. And there's other things you can do to. If one of these days another trans person gets hired where you work, you can make sure they aren't harassed and stand up for them without letting anyone else know you have a similar background. And like you said, you can also vote in favor of the LGBT community should it come up on a ballot. To me, these little things can show as much support as going to a rally or parade. If you decide to fade away completely, that's your choice. There will be someone to pick up where you left off just like in a relay race. But just know this. No matter how much or how little you do, it's way better than those who have done nothing.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Actually Lorelei, it matters alot if you are transitioning or not..

you have ALOT to say about how others are living their lives, about what is right and wrong...

but when someone comments specifically on how you are living your life, you refuse to engage them and just say that it doesnt matter...apparently because the surgery was not adequate 15 yrs ago??

but I don't think all the surgery and medicine I take is "adequate" either...but here i am....if you have not transitioned but consider yourself a transsexual then I could easily argue that you are the one turning your back on the community by not being yourself...what kind of example are you setting for transsexuals that you will only transition if everything is to your liiking? you SHOULD transition...i'm not telling you to, but I'm saying you should, I'm saying its the "right" thing to do...how does it feel to be told what you "should do"? and judged for not doing it?

transition is painful, messy, emotional, risky, and destructive but is ultimately (hopefully) a transcending part of a ts woman's life..its literally a bet your life proposition that for whatever reason you are unwilling to do......
well i took the bet, kelly did, pam did, ...others did..
isnt that enough for you?

everyone in my life has been effected..EVERYBODY...i lost my job, i lost my wife, my kids are impacted...my friends felt hurt, i have spent gobs of money hoping to get an adequate result, just so i can feel like a human being...is that enough for you?

if i somehow get through all this then i'll support whatever rights and causes that I see fit, but I hope to do it as a woman, and my past is totally and completely irrelevant.

[Karen564]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

1st off Kel,
No, it's not a selfish act by going stealth, not one bit, and if it is, then myself and the many thousands of other postops that have gone before us are too..
I say we need to do it in order to survive..and to move forward.:hugs:

I think many misunderstand what being stealth is all about, our family, maybe coworkers & old friends all know what we were, so that will never change..

I guess I'm semi-stealth at this point, I don't tell anyone unless they ask me directly, Like in school, it's been all girls (7) in my class so far & they haven't asked me yet, but everyone that does know have been very friendly & warm and has kept it to themselves as far as I can see..which that may or may not stay that way, I don't really know, only time will tell..because I dont have a crystal ball yet..
I would like to think we already did our part if we were a source of inspiration for many, even if it's just one, to break out of their self imposed prisons and start on their journey towards transition..
That's enough for me, because I know that I'm not a Donna Rose or Lynn Conway type that are in the spot lite, it may be fine for them, but it's not for me, I used to be very shy at one time, but changed too and now a much more outgoing person, although I'm no activists, and probably never will be..but then again, who really knows what my destiniy is..

The future is rather fluid like, and can flow many ways, but usually goes to the path of least resistence.

I plan on going deep stealth after my SRS too, but it doesn't mean I will get off this site necessary, at least not immediately, but I don't really know until I cross that bridge, although, I strongly suspect there will come a day that I wont be here anymore and just pass that torch to someone else...actually, to some degree, that proccess has already begun...:wine:

I definitely believe in Paying it forward...and hope to have already helped many up & coming girls out there to take that 1st big step..

As to Lorileah or anyone thinking like that..
I really don't know how to respond to that nicely,:mooning:

But I will say this!!!
When the day comes that you get this far and start living this way for a while, chances are, you will then understand why so many girls do go stealth..and want to put those trans days behind you...but of course all of us will always vote appropriately as part of our civic duty..and that alone is not what I call turning our backs on anyone..
.
You insist on not wanting labels, yet you want us to label ourselves and be activist for life because were trans...???

Well, were not into labels, never have been, the only label I ever wanted was the one that said Woman..thats all I am & forever will be till I die..:angel:

[Byanca]

Frankly, I know of a few post-transitioning or post-surgery people who I would only wish would go away and not be involved with other's lives because they just aren't up to it or really give a damn at all about anyone else other than themselves.
Then that is best. No problem really. And they will do good just by doing this as well. It's better to do nothing, then do bad.

I met the first transgendered persen IRL ever this weekend. 3 years on hormones. Just on a pub. She saw me, came to me, talked for a bit, give the phone number so I could call if I wanted. Does not take much.No one ever did something like that for me before. I had to get away, since I started crying. Hope I did not freak her out. But that was a very nice thing to do.

[CharleneT]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

1st off Kel,
No, it's not a selfish act by going stealth, not one bit, and if it is, then myself and the many thousands of other postops that have gone before us are too..
I say we need to do it in order to survive..and to move forward.:hugs:

I think many misunderstand what being stealth is all about, our family, maybe coworkers & old friends all know what we were, so that will never change..

I guess I'm semi-stealth at this point, I don't tell anyone unless they ask me directly, Like in school, it's been all girls (7) in my class so far & they haven't asked me yet, but everyone that does know have been very friendly & warm and has kept it to themselves as far as I can see..which that may or may not stay that way, I don't really know, only time will tell..because I dont have a crystal ball yet..
I would like to think we already did our part if we were a source of inspiration for many, even if it's just one, to break out of their self imposed prisons and start on their journey towards transition..
That's enough for me, because I know that I'm not a Donna Rose or Lynn Conway type that are in the spot lite, it may be fine for them, but it's not for me, I used to be very shy at one time, but changed too and now a much more outgoing person, although I'm no activists, and probably never will be..but then again, who really knows what my destiniy is..

The future is rather fluid like, and can flow many ways, but usually goes to the path of least resistence.

I plan on going deep stealth after my SRS too, but it doesn't mean I will get off this site necessary, at least not immediately, but I don't really know until I cross that bridge, although, I strongly suspect there will come a day that I wont be here anymore and just pass that torch to someone else...actually, to some degree, that proccess has already begun...:wine:

I definitely believe in Paying it forward...and hope to have already helped many up & coming girls out there to take that 1st big step..

As to Lorileah or anyone thinking like that..
I really don't know how to respond to that nicely,:mooning:

But I will say this!!!
When the day comes that you get this far and start living this way for a while, chances are, you will then understand why so many girls do go stealth..and want to put those trans days behind you...but of course all of us will always vote appropriately as part of our civic duty..and that alone is not what I call turning our backs on anyone..
.
You insist on not wanting labels, yet you want us to label ourselves and be activist for life because were trans...???

Well, were not into labels, never have been, the only label I ever wanted was the one that said Woman..thats all I am & forever will be till I die..:angel:

:yt:

Wow ... this thread has been interesting !!

I do understand what some have said about giving back, once you are at the end of your transition. I could never look someone in the eye and tell 'em that though. Transition is way too hard, way too personal and way too heart-wrenching to look at a person on the end and tell them what to do with their life. Maybe they did get a lot of help, but my bet is that those who helped along that route don't feel they need to be "paid back" or "paid forward" or whatever.

Personally, I'll always be here (on these forums, until GK kicks my sorry butt out) and will help anyone I can. BUT that is just me. Those that know me will tell you I tend to lend a hand frequently, whether I know the person in need or not. My only decision is "can I help {_____}". I have always been this way and in every aspect of my life. So, yes, I'll be active in our local GLBT groups and yes that might keep me somewhat "pegged". That is my choice, not one I recommend to others.


Charlene

[Miranda09]

Hi Kelly...the responses to your thread have been really interesting to read. My own opinion is that you should do whatever is right for you and not worry about anyone else, including the TG community. Be yourself, be happy, and live your life as you see fit...just like any other indiuvdual. As for support, you know you'll always have mine. :)

Just one more thing...as for supporting the LBGT community while you continue with your life, I don't feel anyone has the right to expect anything from someone else just to support their cause. If the individual wants to support it, that's their choice. If not..again that's their choice and they should NOT be criticized for it.

[NiCo]

Kelly. TOTAL RESPECT!

I can see exactly what you mean, cause I see it in myself. I’m stealth. And it will stay that way. Online is different, I sometimes support the transgender community as well as the bisexual community. I rarely class myself as transgender, but I have a lot of friends who are. I’ll stand by them as long as they stand by me, and respect my wishes.

I understand why people lie about their past etc etc…maybe they are ashamed?! I can understand that feeling also, why be proud of something that’s completely destroyed your life? It’s destroyed your past, present and may even destroy your future. You are exposed to fiends who want to hurt you if they found out. You are exposed to people who think they are better than you because of your status. You are classed as less when in fact you are more cause you had the courage to go through something so traumatic…but they will never understand.

Everyone has their own opinion but I respect those who go stealth. It’s the safer option. My opinion…clearly not the majority of trans-peeps opinions but hey! It’s YOUR life.

Even after I have undergone the relevant surgeries, I will probably remain in the trans online community…I’ve never been in any offline one so that’s no difference. The difference will be this: I wont be on THAT often. Why? Because I will have a LIFE and it will be BUSY.

Before surgery I am male, after, I will still be male…REGARDLESS of what anyone else thinks or says, or what they misprinted on my birth certificate…it’s irrelevant, it’s MY choice…not some doctor who had a quick glance and assumed I was [BLERGH] and so, I was blundered with that for 16 years of my life. No. Hell no.

To those who don’t understand why someone would go stealth, either way you see stealth…that’s fine, that’s your choice to be open about it all, but when someone is kicking in your door trying to hurt you…remember who made that choice and remember there are people out there who find trans-peeps “disgusting” etc. My opinion is that it’s throwing fuel into the flames…as I have found personally. You chose that path, you chose the risks, as do stealth peeps chose being away from it all but potentially being harmed if found out.

I can see why you are proud of your “status” and determined to make a difference in the community and SHOULD NOT be harmed because of it, but all stealth peeps are trying to do is AVOID the nastiness. I’m not proud of it, my purpose in the online world is to try and support, advise if needed…that’s me doing my good deed. Sometimes I come across those who hate on me cause they disagree with my way of life. F*ck them. What I do offline is no-ones business unless I add them into it.

I respect your choice to broadcast whatever, it’s your life, do what you want…but as someone who is stealth, hearing that it’s “OMGODS THAT’S PURE SELFISH” blar de blah, is pretty shocking. We can live our life how we want, you cannot make judgement or force anyone to do what YOU want, or want to see happen. I’m not saying you [[directly to anyone here, but somewhere. If I was talking to you, I‘d quote you or name you. Simples.]] are saying this, but if you are thinking it don’t even bother. I’m not criticising your life on how you live it cause that’s your choice.

To those who are stealth, good luck, respect! To those who are not, good luck and respect. You have one life, make it special.

[This was my opinion (I find myself saying this a lot cause people don’t always understand that) and I’m not attacking anyone in particular in this thread, unless you feel I am, PM me. Just my own point of view.]

[Fab Karen]

I was asked this question in front of an audience during my talk to the medical school...frankly it's a tough one.

The final goal is to be the woman in your heart (not a trans-woman). And yet you cannot deny where you came from, or your existence.

I was asked by the head of counseling support services at the MedCenter (again during my talk) what they could do as an institution to support those transitioning. Then it really dawned on me that I have a chance to make things better for those following me. That's a big responsibility...

I don't plan on advertising. But if I can help by being visible I will.

Edit: The talk was recorded and the DVD placed in the medical school library...so in a sense the ship has sailed...there is a record of me being a transsexual...but I thought it to be too great an opportunity to educate.

STANDING OVATION for your strength & courage.

[Sally24]

Here's the question...........
Am I being selfish because I have the desire to live my life unmolested, or as not to be a curiosity?
Of course it's selfish, but you're supposed to look out for YOU first and everyone else second. It's one of those difficult choices you have to make in your transition. I can see both sides of this issue and don't really know what I would do if I transitioned to full time. It's a personal matter and no one should put pressure on another for their choice.

Good luck in your journey.

[Melissa A.]

No one is required to live their life in any particular way. We all do what we must, given our circumstances and abilities. So many in our position have lost so very much just to be who they are, and piecing back together a semblance of a life can be enough work in and of itself. Everyone who transitions ought to be admired for their determination, and I don't expect anyone to live their subsequent life in any way, except in a way that's comfortable for them.

I personally have alot of admiration for those who choose to take on the hard work that activism requires. We wouldn't be where we are today without many of these people, and owe them at least the debt of immense grattitude. I know quite a few, and have, at times, tried to get involved and be of help. But I often work 12 hours a day, and I just usually dont have the time, and maybe not the wherewithall for that. However, I am still a citizen, and feel that as such, I deserve to be heard. Someone going so-called stealth can still write their elected representatives or an editorial page when issues arise that affect their life, or the lives of those they care about. Someone going stealth can still, if they can afford it, give a little to a cause that helps their sisters and brothers in distress. Someone who just wants to get on with their life in the largely cissexual world can still come here now and then and maybe offer a few words of encouragement and support to someone who is in the same position they once were... There are an endless amount of ways to give a little support, and there are just as many ways to live your life after the nuts and bolts of transition are over. There are just too many different paths taken by too many different people who have transitioned, some of them tragic, in many ways. I can't judge or blame anyone for living their life as they see fit, even as I urge everyone to help themselves and those like them, in any small way that they can. Equal rights are not special rights. If you can help in any way, you help yourself, even if you're "stealth".

Hugs,

Melissa:)

[Kaitlyn Michele]

There is no reason why you can't be an activist (if you choose) and live your life as the woman you need to be...

they are not exclusive to each other...i think in a practical way, it may feel risky to be an activist and try to live a totally stealth life, but thats for each person to judge..

there is alot of chatter in our forum about support..and i still don't really know what that means..for some it means outward leadership, for others its more about just being there to witness and for others its about quietly doing deeds, or in the case of many girls here, it means simply to lead by the example of showing what is possible in this world..

[Zenith]

STANDING OVATION for your strength & courage.

Thanks Karen. I converted it to an MP.4 (582 MB) and trying to find a way to share it with members. Problem is I do have some people (on this board) that want to hurt me ...:straightface:

I totally get that leaving trans behind is desirable. My best times out are when I'm treated as a woman and accepted as such, maybe even actually passing. Not even thinking about being trans. What I have a problem with is the idea that one has to move on and abandon friends to have a new life. I don't consider people disposable. Of course it's a personal decision how to live one's life post transition. But I don't think being honorable and being stealth are mutually exclusive.

[Starling]

I fully understand the desire to be just an ordinary, unremarkable woman-about-town at the other end of the tumultuous experience of gender reassignment. But I'd like to think that ordinary woman out there in the future would be as open to TG people as she would like the "straight" world to be to her now, while she's still struggling to shed her old identity.

I also believe that most of the CDers here would really be happier as ordinary women, and that after a lifetime of dressing it finally becomes clear it's not essentially about the clothes. But transitioning is just not in the cards for most of us, usually for some very good and honorable reasons. While it obviously takes courage to transition, one is not automatically a coward not to.

So I return to my old, familiar refrain: let's try to be good to one another, assume the best, and ignore the rest.

:) Lallie

[noeleena]

Hi..
I would not comment on how any one should live thier lives as we are all different .
I would not expect any one else to do what i have done . gone on two T V stations. in the papers. & on the net .world wide . stand in front of 100 s of people & then in front of 1000s . while being a part of our groups

. look at my pic what you see is what every one else see.s when they meet me ...this is my life . & who i am .
Would i ever hide away or just blend in . no because i am too well known . first as a male if you like & then as a woman if you like . my story is there for all to see . & i wont hide away . i dont have to ... now this is just me . no one else.
I did not have any help from any lgbt group as there is none where we live . that s been over 11 years now .

I came out on my terms yet i had help from people who knew me . & even strangers who have become my friends . & we did not have a computer till 3 years ago . so i was well & truely out living as a woman ..
How each of us come to how we should live is up to us as we need to . not be damm well told how to . as i have had 50 years of that . so 11 years ago i changed . yet did i
Not really . i changed my shorts & tops . male damm clothes to how i saw my self as a woman wearing female clothes ...& even then was that all . no because i could express my self as breing true to my self as that woman . plus all the other parts of who i am . so for those who can just blend in then go for it .

We are all different so should be accepted that way .. & allow each of us the benifit of the choise we make in our lives .

...noeleena...

[Dawn D.]

It doesn't matter where this topic comes up, it seems this one is a touchy issue. I wish we could come up with a new term for living "under the radar" in stead of "stealth". The term itself just makes me feel like we're lurking in the shadows or something. As if living in as private a life as one can, is of some nefarious intent. When in actuality those that do live privately, have their own personal reasons and needs for it. Whether or not any of us as trans are a part of activism is just as equally, a personal reason in participating or not.

I have my reasons for being out and open with my life. Some have to do with a personal sense of genuinely wanting to educate the unaware. As well, help those in our "family" who are in that ever so familiar state of confusion, depression and anger that comes from not understanding who they are yet. Along with this, there are larger issues. One being, it simply doesn't matter whether I am "stealth" or not where I live. Because, I am so well known publicly here anyway. Then there is this, the issue of proper treatment and administration of access to health services for trans people. This is actually one of my latest and most serious topics that I have become involved with locally. But, all of this comes from a deep residing sense of what I know that I can do myself to help others. If you will, a sense of community.

Now, does this mean that because someone such as Kelly is wrong for not taking up the same challenges? Absolutely not! Each of us has our own needs for how and where to share our lives with others. Just because we are trans does not mean that we are instantly obligated to perform community service once we attain our lives in which to live. Much the same as one who is a cancer survivor is no more obligated to fund raise for the American Cancer Society just because they happen to still be alive after receiving successful treatments. If it doesn't fit your lifestyle, it doesn't fit your life!

Kelly wrote:


Am I being selfish because I have the desire to live my life unmolested, or as not to be a curiosity?

Kelly,

I apologize, however, I must parse out this sentence. First, "Am I being selfish...". Yes, your are. Just the fact that we are trans/whatever, it is inherently a selfish act. It is the most selfish thing you or I will ever act upon in our lives! However, you, nor I have a choice in whether or not we act upon it. It simply must be. Secondly, you're not selfish because you do not wish to be a part of "the community" once your transition is complete. More, it is selfishness in wanting to maintain that secret from the rest of the world to know about you. I personally don't think one needs to worry over whether being selfish is right or wrong. Ask yourself a different question instead. Is it right for me to be involved in activities that might expose who I am? I believe you'll give yourself a better answer. One that you don't even need a public response to. And, one that will keep you from beating yourself up over.


Dawn

[Scotty]

I've kind of been stealthy on this post but it seems to be growing it's own wings.

I'm stealth - I won't transition unless some major things change in life and even then..

So nothing the community does affects me, good or bad...

However, if I were to use the community as a support tool (aka Stepping stone) - sure, I should support it as I am transitioning.

But once completed there will be someone to take my place and I could fade into society as a woman....

I don't like it when you join a club, to support and be supported - or to do a hobby or whatever and then it gets so political that the whole reason you joined is lost. I could name several societies like this, not just in the LGBT community.

So no, you don't owe anybody but if you take, you should give.

[jandebs]

If we're going out in the world as female I don't see the whole 'stealth' issue as an option. We're all going to adopt a stealth strategy to some degree, depending on what we can get away with. In my heart of hearts I want to be female and so I'll keep the public 'illusion' going until it becomes unsustainable. I spent an hour or so chatting with a woman at an art exhibition of my late brother's work, talking about our kids ( i have two in their twenties and was widowed about thirteen years ago ), life, love, the pursuit of happiness etc.. She was great fun, probably enhanced by the pinot g., and I talked willingly and honestly about everything, while being careful with some words which might give clues as to my birth gender ( I'm registered with the U.K. national health service as female, and fooled around with mail order hormones a decade ago, but no surgery ). I assumed she'd probably suss me at some point and I would have been perfectly happy to chat about any aspect of the revelation, but she didn't. The minute we leave the house we're in 'stealth' mode, because we want to be taken as female and do everything we can to make this happen. For the people at the periphery of our world, strangers, the people who assume we're female and treat us as such, the 'stealth' is sustained. Not because we've employed it as an option, but because it's the inevitable result of trying to pass. Once we're read, the only thing that is an option, is how we react. And that, I suppose, depends on the circumstances in which we are read.

And we will be read, at some point in the developement of every relationship, casual or otherwise. The nearer we are to people; friends, coworkers, lovers, the more 'stealth' becomes an impossibilty, a nonsense. I watched the woman go back into the gallery to get us a couple more glasses of wine, through the terrace window, and saw my brother's girlfriend speaking with her. Her jaw dropped visibly, when told I was the brother and I watched them for a few minutes jabbering, and on her return had a whole new topic of conversation. We're friends for life.

I've been a member for ages and though I visit the forums almost every day, I rarely post. When I do start to write, I usually get into a log jam of contradiction and bin it. In any case, the brilliantly expressed observations of Reine usually seem to say it all.

happy yuletide

jan

[Rianna Humble]

In a recent thread regarding support from the LBGT community I commented that as a transsexual ( my own personal position) I feel that I am just passing through. Transitioning isn't something I do part time, or when the mood strikes me, it's is a means to an end.

For me, there is nothing wrong with that perspective so long as it doesn't lead you to cut yourself off from friends.


Some people are of the opinion that we who are stealth (or at least attempt to be) are distancing ourselves from the "TG" community, and that we should be doing more in support.

You don't have to run for president in order to do something in support of the community of which you were once part.


The truth of the matter is that it's a pretty good bet that once I complete my transition, I'll probably just fade away into the woodwork ..... never to be heard from again by the the LBGT community.

You have a very special perspective on what it takes to go through transition and if you felt able (for example) to keep in touch through this forum and maybe provide some words of comfort or encouragement to those who are going through something akin to what you once experienced, then that would be a very positive contribution.


Here's the question...........
Am I being selfish because I have the desire to live my life unmolested, or as not to be a curiosity?

Framed in that very narrow way, then no you are not being selfish to want that, but isn't that a very tendentious interpretation of what being there for others can mean?


A lot of you can move back and forth between being cross dressed or in drab. When not dressed you have the ability to live your normal everyday life, and you can keep your secret life...secret. So shouldn't we be able to keep our secret life secret? Some of us just want to our TS lives in the same way you live your drab lives. Any thoughts?

Kelly

I wouldn't want you to live your new life the way that I live my "drab life" - in fear of discovery and discrimination, always knowing that I am not quite complete, wishing there were some other way to be my real self.

I would want you to be able to live your new life at peace with yourself and without fear of the consequences of someone knowing that you used to be in the wrong body.

I would also want to think that you were able to be a compassionate individual and prepared, at least via a platform such as this, to do good around you to those who may be experiencing some of the pain and/or self-doubt that you have probably already had to handle.

So, in the wider context, I could not support your desire to cut yourself off from this community irrevocably. That does not mean that I am calling you selfish or any other name. Neither does it mean that I am asking you to haul out your soap box and proclaim on every street corner that you are different.

It does mean that I believe you are a better person than the narrow question might suggest and that you have enough compassion in you to be able to reach out to those who might need your wisdom.

[melimelo]

I believe that the desire for individuals to be involved in a good cause is probably driven by a Bell Curve: a small number will turn their back completely and do nothing, the majority will be involved to a moderate degree, and a small number will be highly involved and visible. I guess it's just human nature: we give what we can and are willing to give.

My own contribution (very similar to what others might be doing) is to "educate" my family and close friends about gender identity dysphoria. Before I came out, they might have thought transpersons to be weirdo, deviants whose "chose" to be that way. Now, they can put a face on the phenomenon and understand it a bit better. This is what I can give at this time of my life.

Cheers,

[stacie]

I live in stealth. If you are able to go stealth more power to you.

[msginaadoll]

What a great post, Kelly. Obviously only you truly know your situation, and from where you came. Do you owe anything to the larger transgender community, only you can say. Just my two cents if you have ever received support from a mentor or others who were further along in your journey than you maybe you do or did owe something. And maybe you have already paid your dues back. However its your right to decide whether you should give back or not. Everyone is not called to march or be a soldier on the frontline, etc. The community and the world in general need people who just fade into the general population and go about there lives like everyone else. To me you are a woman and have been for who knows how long. It is your right to live and exist as such- so who is to say you should be a flagwaver for the rights of armadillos, or the people of tibet or, the right to bare arms. You are you.

[Kimberly Marie Kelly]

can't hide my male features yet. But I am officially transitioned at work and will talk to anyone who ask's me questions. But if in my transition journey I find that I can pass as a woman fully, the question of whether I would retire from being a transwoman I would re-consider at that time. But like I said as I cannot go stealth right now I may as well promote transgendered rights as best I can.. Kimberly :battingeyelashes:

[christine55]

a heterosexual woman is not a member of the lgbt clan.

Hugs Christine

[Melissa A.]

a heterosexual woman is not a member of the lgbt clan.

Hugs Christine

Really? A heterosexual transwoman? Guess I'd better stop going to the LGBT center. Or even hanging out with my gay and lesbian "friends". And here I thought I was a part of something. Stoopid me. No wonder they won't show me the clan member list, no matter how many times I ask. I'm not one of them! Duh. Thanks so much for making that clear.

Hugs,

Melissa:)

[pamela_a]

Really? A heterosexual transwoman? Guess I'd better stop going to the LGBT center. Or even hanging out with my gay and lesbian "friends". And here I thought I was a part of something. Stoopid me. No wonder they won't show me the clan member list, no matter how many times I ask. I'm not one of them! Duh. Thanks so much for making that clear.Melissa, if that's how you look at yourself then good for you, I have no problems with it. You are free to live your life however you want to, including wear a sign around your neck proudly proclaiming you are trans if you wish.

Just please don't tell me how I have to feel about myself and how I need to live my life. Just as you have the freedom to live your life the way you wish I'd like to think that same courtesy extends to Kelly, me, and all of the other women here who choose to leave that part of our lives behind us.

[Nicole Erin]

Kelly, there are some TS who go around waving flags or posting videos on the web and making it REAL clear that they are TS. I don't think that is a good idea for any TS. I wouldn't think anyone should be expected to parade around advertising. Gyod I don't see that as a good idea for anyone of any culture.
I may be dead wrong on this point but I always assume that the more passable a TS woman, the more serious she would be taken or treated better. I mean like even if people did know.

The fact that you asked about being selfish - I think in your heart you are wanting to help other TS. Well of course you can still do that. GG's help, so why not a TS who is well on her way? I think many would appreciate it. Like I said - that doesn't mean you have to parade around downtown with a rainbow flag at the GLBT-fest. Even if you were helping by offering advice on forums like this, it can be a big help. How far someone is on their way or their gender status has nothing to do with whether they should or shouldn't help. Look at some of the CD's who offer their support and advice and actually inspire others to get out and about. Your help and advice may inspire some TS to advance.

Who one makes friends with is their choice. I don't know who your RL connections are but no need to sever those unless the friendships just fade like so many do. (admits I am not the best about staying in contact with anyone. :o )


a heterosexual woman is not a member of the lgbt clan.

Hugs Christine

There are non_tg men and women who are part of the GLBT, or in our case, TG community. Plenty of GG's here who offer great advice, and some of them - their husband is CD/TS. Even DemonicDaughter (a GG here) is a drag queen. :heehee: DD the GG DQ.

[carolinoakland]

I think sometimes that I am too well known for stealth, but then again if I'm a woman then what's the stealth? I know I'm a woman, my past is just that, my past. I don't like to post pictures while in transition. I'm going towards my womanhood, why in the world would I ever let anyone see me in transition? I got a second job recently in my field where no one knows me from my past... and I always get asked "what was your old name? " which always frustrates a little, what was the point of changing it if I'm going to tell everyone what my old name was? And another thing that i dislike is the term transexual, it has the word sex in it, and that's what everyone thinks this is all about...
sex. sigh. And people thinks it gives them the right to ask questions that they'd never ask a stranger in a million years.

The three most asked questions are...
1. How long have you been gay?
Huh? oh, uhmmmm, well technically not until after the operation...

2. Are you cut? / had the operation?

3. Are you going to get cut? / Get the operation?

See what I mean? Carol

[tess graham]

I agree with you Kelly. Although I am at the beginning of my transition, my goal is to finish this journey and live somewhere quietly as a woman. That would be nice. I may even invite the dog or cat along as they seem to be nonjudgemental and quite supportive.

[christine55]

Some ts women like to be known as ts, fine with me, while many others would like to consider themselves women and forget about ever being a man. We are all different. I don't understand what the argument is about.
Hugs, Christine

[Melissa A.]

Melissa, if that's how you look at yourself then good for you, I have no problems with it. You are free to live your life however you want to, including wear a sign around your neck proudly proclaiming you are trans if you wish.

Just please don't tell me how I have to feel about myself and how I need to live my life. Just as you have the freedom to live your life the way you wish I'd like to think that same courtesy extends to Kelly, me, and all of the other women here who choose to leave that part of our lives behind us.

I've made it clear earlier in this thread, and elswhere, that I believe one should live their life in the way that is most comfortable to them. I honestly don't know where in that post you percieved anything different from what I have been saying, if you've read any of my earlier posts. In this last one, I was simply responding(which is why the quote is included) to a specific comment that I thnk is a pretty false and uninformed generalization. If it looked like anything other than that, that wasn't my intention. So no, Pamela, just to make myself perfectly clear again, I am not now, and never have, in any way, suggested to you or anyone else that I know how to feel or how to live, or have any business "telling" you how to do so. Furthermore, I don't believe that I've ever described myself as someone who wears her TS status on her sleeve, around her neck, or anywhere else. I really don't know where that came from, either. Hope I am making myself clear(er), this time.


Hugs,

Melissa:)

[GypsyKaren]

I think every point has been made here, thread closed.