What is Passing anyway???

[Raychel]

So lately I have been reading all the "passing" threads. Gets me thinking. So eating my lunch, sitting outside the store today, Just watching the people come and go. Especially the women, Studing the look. Just what is needed to pass.

Well I have come to discover that just about anything goes, As long as it isn't a skirt or dress. Always wear pants.

One lady went into the store, dressed in what appeared to be mens jeans, work boots, definitly a mens jacket. and a knit pullover hat. Other then the fact that I saw her face and the long blonde hair from under the hat. From the back you would never know this person was female.

So if that is really what is passing, I am not sure that I am all that interested.

So just what is Crossdressing anyway??
And do you really need to go to the ladies dept to buy the clothes for the look?

Just what is you thoughts on all of this?

[kellycan27]

So lately I have been reading all the "passing" threads. Gets me thinking. So eating my lunch, sitting outside the store today, Just watching the people come and go. Especially the women, Studing the look. Just what is needed to pass.

Well I have come to discover that just about anything goes, As long as it isn't a skirt or dress. Always wear pants.

One lady went into the store, dressed in what appeared to be mens jeans, work boots, definitly a mens jacket. and a knit pullover hat. Other then the fact that I saw her face and the long blonde hair from under the hat. From the back you would never know this person was female.

So if that is really what is passing, I am not sure that I am all that interested.

So just what is Crossdressing anyway??
And do you really need to go to the ladies dept to buy the clothes for the look?

Just what is you thoughts on all of this?

You obviously knew that she was a woman. You are going to hear a lot of opinions on what passing means, but if you take the literal, it means ( for a cd) having think people think you are a woman. Passing is subjective.
hope this helps.
Kel

[SweetCaroline]

For me, passing is not caring what anyone else thinks. Life is too short to worry about such things anyways.

[Karren H]

Passing is when you die.... Everything up to that point is just part of the act..

[Miranda09]

I thought passing is what the quarterback does!!:cheer::yahoo:

[Terrihoney]

I lady does not 'pass', at least in public.

I know what you mean, for everyday shopping and going about, most women don't dress the part and certainly don't have the 'walk'. It's the body size and proportion that makes us a bit suspect. If I could just throw on the forms,clothes and wig and off I go, what would be the thrill?

My femme side is not just me in a dress, I am a different personna. I view the world through different eyes. That's the fun.

Hugs, Terri

[Karen564]

Passing is what I do when I'm driving past the slowpoke on the road.....lol

[DanaR]

Passing is when a woman dresses in men clothes and no one cares or notices; but if a male wears woman's clothes, it's a problem, everyone will notice.:D

[Kate Simmons]

Much ado about nothing for the most part. Being yourself and enjoying that is the main thing.:)

[Sallee]

I like that

that is acceptable to

[Raychel]

For me, passing is not caring what anyone else thinks. Life is too short to worry about such things anyways.

It seems like that is the best way to play the part..


Passing is when you die.... Everything up to that point is just part of the act..

I like the show Karen you play the Act well.


I thought passing is what the quarterback does!!:cheer::yahoo:

Now a lady wouldn't be talking footbal at a time like this...


Much ado about nothing for the most part. Being yourself and enjoying that is the main thing.:)

I think this is the best way to look at it Denise.



All great responses.

[sandra-leigh]

My thoughts on this topic is that it is treading dangerously close to criticizing the average woman for not wearing "feminine" clothes -- a criticism that would not be permitted by the site rules.

[Raychel]

I certainly am not trying to criticize anyone for what they wear. But more to emphazize about wearing what you are comfortable in. This is what the general population seems to be doing from what I have observed.

So if you feel best in jeans or whatever, No-one seems to notice or even care, Just relax and enjoy life.

[sandra-leigh]

I certainly am not trying to criticize anyone for what they wear.

I am having difficulty reconciling that with the part of your posting that went,


So if that is really what is passing, I am not sure that I am all that interested.

I've been known to be thick-headed before, so perhaps I am misreading something here.

[Raychel]

Sorry Sandra, The words don't alwaya come out of my brain right sometimes. I have the same problem in real life sometimes too.

What I am trying to say is that I would much rather be wearing a formal dress, then passing in a crowd in jeans and a sweatshirt. I can wear them anyday. What is so special about that. So I guess I will never realy fit in anywhere. I had pretty much accepted that anyway.

I certainly never meaned to critisize or put anyone down. and I am very sorry if that is the way it sounded. :hugs:

[Nicole Erin]

Passing is when you die.... Everything up to that point is just part of the act..
So the car batteries that have died on me, did they pass away?

Passing is when they think you are a woman.

Of course it depends on the level of scrutiny. The more contact, the harder it is.
Say like someone glances at you as you are going by - Easy to pass.
If they have a few moments to study you - Gets harder.
Carrying on a conversation and still passing - very difficult, femme voice or not.
Being intimate - Unless you are post-op, gotta be REAL careful.

And for the clothing - well, women often wear pants/slacks/jeans.
I mean come on, women don't wear skirts or dresses much.
However, if you do wear them, make sure they are about knee length, cause a short dress/skirt will draw a lot more attention.

I am more TS than CD but my take on clothing - CD'ing is technically when a male presents as a woman. Everything from camp-drag to the everyday conservative look. My typical "femme" look would be a nice top, slacks, and flats. Probably with at least some makeup.

But what is the best way to CD? Well, slacks or skirt, tank or tee, just make sure your clothing is at least pretty. Wearing your nascar tee just doesn't cut it for CD'ing.

All these gender rules for clothing and how so many people break them, it does get confusing like "what the hell is CD'ing anyways?"
Have you seen some of the new women's clothes that are "boyfriend" shirts or perhaps the nylon briefs for men?

Gyod where is this gender boundry? Ahh F-it, just dress as you feel comfy :)

[Bridget Fitzgerald]

It is the theoretical scenario that one has blended in so well that no one can tell regardless of the proximity. It's also an issue that makes other trans people throw hissy fits at its mention as if it were a judgment on them. Thus it is the ultimate sin to use the term as it is taboo.

[Shikyo]

Passing...passing, where have I heard this before. Oh right, I pass people when I walk outside, in a store or wherever there are people, isn't this already "passing?

Fine, fine...I'll cut out the (bad) jokes. I think passing has much to do with self-confidence instead of the way you look. By being nervous you will get much more attention when you're being self-confident. With more attention the risk of someone noticing that not everything is out of the ordinary is much higher. With less attention it's easier to hide among the masses. No one really pays all that much attention to someone that just passes by on the street or inside a store. Why should they unless there is clearly something strange about that person like a man with beard and female clothing.

The other problem is inside your head. When I first started going outside and later on when I started living full time I had the feeling everyone new as people were looking at me. However, not even once anyone said anything nor were there any laughter or anything else. What I'm trying to say by telling you all this is that even if people look at you it's far from being "caught". Another example is that sometimes people start to look at me longer than usual, so far only females, and I'm wondering what is wrong with my face but in the end they were only curious about my hair style instead and were trying to get a better look at it.


My thoughts on this topic is that it is treading dangerously close to criticizing the average woman for not wearing "feminine" clothes -- a criticism that would not be permitted by the site rules.

But wearing too feminine clothes is not good either, at least in some peoples opinions. I had a guy, a regular customer at the place where I work, come to me and asked if I were a guy. As it's none of his business what my birth sex was, I denied being a male but throughout this conversation it turned out that he asked me that because he had seen me walking in outside with high heels, white stockings and a mini skirt.

[eluuzion]

Just what is needed to pass.


This is dependent upon the specific objective, relative to the specific context in which the "communication" occurs.


So just what is Crossdressing anyway??


This question is also not specific enough to me to offer any constructive feedback or reply. Similar to (what is life? what is living? what is right?).

I guess then, my only answer must be...

"It is what is seen throught the eyes of the beholder"...or in many cases..."through the eyes of the beerholder


Just what is you thoughts on all of this?

Interesting area but the questions require more information to determine which reply would be relevant.

Nothing personal or disrespectful intended, just being genuine.

[Raychel]

This is dependent upon the specific objective, relative to the specific context in which the "communication" occurs.

:eek::eek:



This question is also not specific enough to me to offer any constructive feedback or reply. Similar to (what is life? what is living? what is right?).

I guess then, my only answer must be...

"It is what is seen throught the eyes of the beholder"...or in many cases..."through the eyes of the beerholder



Interesting area but the questions require more information to determine which reply would be relevant.

Nothing personal or disrespectful intended, just being genuine.

All very good answers. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Barbara918]

Just the word "passing" bothers me -- It sounds as if someone's handing out report cards.

[DAVIDA]

Hi Raychel!
Well, Passing is something that I will never be able to do.:doh:
So.....I don't try!:heehee:
For me, dressing has nothing to do with passing. I mean, come on, a blind person can see that I am a man in women's clothing!
It has to do with how I feel, not what others perceive.

[msginaadoll]

I guess I have got to the point where I believe passing is when you are not called sir, or mister, or nobody shouts out "She's a man baby!" Also there is no snickering, laughing at, gesturing, or throwing of fruits or vegetables. Also no excessive staring unless of course you are wearing a fabulous outfit, and looking excessively beautiful. Oh Mr DeMille I'm ready for my closeup! If you are treated with respect(and hopefully like a lady- by that I mean called maam, miss, though honey or sweetie can be ok at times) and dignity then I think maybe that is passing to me.

[Rianna Humble]

I certainly am not trying to criticize anyone for what they wear.

I am having difficulty reconciling that with the part of your posting that went,


So if that is really what is passing, I am not sure that I am all that interested.

I've been known to be thick-headed before, so perhaps I am misreading something here.

I would say that it is more like being a little too thin skinned and reading insults where none exist :sad: than being thick headed.


I certainly never meant to criticize or put anyone down. and I am very sorry if that is the way it sounded. :hugs:

Personally, I read it the way that you meant.


What I am trying to say is that I would much rather be wearing a formal dress, then passing in a crowd in jeans and a sweatshirt. I can wear them any day.

I agree with you, there's no point trying to "pass" by wearing something that does not express your true nature.

I have no difficulty with women who want to wear unisex clothing, but that sort of thing would not be me.

When I am out en femme, I want to be out en femme, not en androgyne.

[Jonianne]

.....I agree with you, there's no point trying to "pass" by wearing something that does not express your true nature.....
I know what you are saying and I agree with 'what's the point of crossdressing if you are not wearing what you want', but I also disagree somewhat.

The lady "passed" to Raychel because Raychel read her spirit, not her cloths.

I wear what I like to wear, but I also know I don't particulary "pass" when I am dressed. What makes me feel good is when I am get mam'ed while in drab. I keep my hair long and femme style and that happens several times a week now. They all recognise their mistake within moments and some begin to profusely apologize, so I know it doesn't take long to recognize my male face. But, for each of those times, someone for a moment saw me as a female and that brightens my day.

Even though I wasn't dressed in one of my jumper dresses I love and attempting to pass, it makes me feel even better when someone, even momentarly, sees and responds to the female part of who I am.

[sandra-leigh]

I would say that it is more like being a little too thin skinned and reading insults where none exist :sad: than being thick headed.


Rianna, I see that you've been with the site about 2 months. I've been here 3 1/2 years, and in that time (more so in the last 6-ish months, or so it feels) I've seen more than a few threads started that follow very much the same story pattern as the narrative on this one. The pattern goes roughly "I was out at a mall today, and I noticed how few GG were taking care of their appearance; virtually none of them were wearing skirts or dresses, just jeans or sweat-pants or something that was practically men's-wear; I didn't like seeing that, and I didn't approve and I don't understand why women these days dress like that: give me real women's clothes, feminine clothes!"

When a person posts observations about what the women in their area are typically wearing, and compares themselves to those GG and expresses that they, for one, prefer feminine clothes, then unless the person has taken a fair bit of care in expressing empathy with the wearing of what-ever strikes individual fancy, that person is expressing an implicit (or, a fair bit of the time, explicit) criticism of the women's choice of clothing.

Note that I am far from perfect in this respect. I've done my share of looking at women and commenting to myself, "But she's so pretty -- why did she go and ruin her looks by (ruining her hair | wearing those clothes | getting that piercing | getting that tatoo | whatever)". Or the really big one for me, "Why did she go and ruin it all by smoking?!". But I am trying to recognize this in myself and increase my tolerance and understanding. Well, except about the smoking; it remains my karmic albatross.




And for the clothing - well, women often wear pants/slacks/jeans.
I mean come on, women don't wear skirts or dresses much.

Different regions have different styles. From what I have read here, I gather that where I live has a greater concentration of skirt and dress wearing women than is the case for the average Canadian, US, or UK forum member. The stores around here cut down on dress and skirt display space during the winter, but they all (except perhaps the smallest) carry at least some skirts during the winter, and Talbot's is the only retailer around that I know of that cuts out sales of dresses... or, rather, Talbot's here only get dresses in for the spring season.

By way of context, "In the winter, Winnipeg has 58 days per year where the temperature falls below −20 °C (−4.0 °F) during at least one point of the day". Thus, the greater concentration is not due to it being a warm climate!

We do, though, definitely have some "migrant effect", which is the sociological phenomena that when there is a mass emigration from a society, that when the people settle in a new area, their cultural traditions and modes of dress tend to largely freeze at that representative of the time and place they emigrated from. At first I was only going to mention the "migrant effect" as a light-hearted hypothesis, but then I remembered our large population of Mennonites and our distinct population of Hutterites. On the other hand, the Hutterites would not be buying skirts and dresses in the local malls... but still, skirts and dresses sell all year here.



However, if you do wear them, make sure they are about knee length, cause a short dress/skirt will draw a lot more attention.

In my experience, 3/4 of the way to the knee seems to be the magic position -- once the length matches that of typical men's British-style shorts, people here seem to stop Looking and just take it in stride. Most times that I get on a bus (even a busy one) wearing an above- the- knee dress or dress & jacket combo, with a noticeable bust, but with "male face", very few people take any interest at all. But, yes, standing in a busy bus with "male face" and a mini-skirt does draw more attention :o



I guess I have got to the point where I believe passing is when you are not called sir, or mister, or nobody shouts out "She's a man baby!" Also there is no snickering, laughing at, gesturing, or throwing of fruits or vegetables. Also no excessive staring unless of course you are wearing a fabulous outfit, and looking excessively beautiful.

I have all of that except that I'm quite often called "sir" (and almost never "ma'm") no matter how dressed up I am. When people know that you are cross-dressing or gender-bending, and yet still treat you better than they treated you as an appearance-conforming "guy"... then perhaps the only reasonable explanation is that you used to think you were "passing" as a male but you weren't; and that now that you are behaving as yourself people are more comfortable with you. I don't know. It gets confusing.

[kellycan27]

. "I was out at a mall today, and I noticed how few GG were taking care of their appearance; virtually none of them were wearing skirts or dresses, just jeans or sweat-pants or something that was practically men's-wear; I didn't like seeing that, and I didn't approve and I don't understand why women these days dress like that: give me real women's clothes, feminine clothes!"

What may be a novelty to some, gets to be rather mundane to others. I can't speak for gg's but what I have found is that after a while the novelty of dressing up to run an errand or go to the mall wears off. I have a busy life. I work full time, have a home to take care of, a guy to cook and clean for, and outside activities. My days are pretty full. I don't always have the time or the energy to "gussy up". I dress in business attire 40+ hours a week, and it's nice to be able to wear clothes that are not only comfortable, but functional as well. Who wants to walk all over the mall in high heels all the time, or wear a skirt to the grocery store?

It always strikes me as hilarious when I see posts by people in this community that feel that they do a better job of looking feminine, or have a better take on how a woman should dress than an actual woman. I find it even funnier when some assert that gg's are jealous, or don't like them because they feel threatened. I practically find myself rolling on the floor with laughter when I see somebody complain about how unfair it is that gg's can "cross dress" with impunity while if they do it, they are ostracized.

Kelly

[nikkijo]

What may be a novelty to some, gets to be rather mundane to others. I can't speak for gg's but what I have found is that after a while the novelty of dressing up to run an errand or go to the mall wears off. I have a busy life. I work full time, have a home to take care of, a guy to cook and clean for, and outside activities. My days are pretty full. I don't always have the time or the energy to "gussy up". I dress in business attire 40+ hours a week, and it's nice to be able to wear clothes that are not only comfortable, but functional as well. Who wants to walk all over the mall in high heels all the time, or wear a skirt to the grocery store?

It always strikes me as hilarious when I see posts by people in this community that feel that they do a better job of looking feminine, or have a better take on how a woman should dress than an actual woman. I find it even funnier when some assert that gg's are jealous, or don't like them because they feel threatened. I practically find myself rolling on the floor with laughter when I see somebody complain about how unfair it is that gg's can "cross dress" with impunity while if they do it, they are ostracized.

Kelly

i have to agree with mrs kelly here... while it does frustrate me that i cant just plop into a nice cute skirt and go about my way like a GG can dawn a pair of jeans, male or female styled, and a generic t shirt witthout so much as a squack from anyone... I can get the same result but it just takes mee far more work to
A: built the confidence.
B: look the part ... even just looking like a female who doesnt care requires atleast an hr of work on my end in hair, makeup and prep,
c: not look overly foolish, just like a soccer mom in miss matched shoes, hair all ratty, and 4 rug rats in tow might draw comments of WTF happened to her..


even though the wife may hate it, she only complained once about the outfit I wore today for family xmas... and it wasnt because it was "girly" but because ive gained enough weight that it looks crapy at this moment on me... but fact is it was a girls long sleeve tshirt, and a pair of nice gap flare jeans that fit our normal family attire.. but total fact is it was also androgynous and 100% female.. and since i was definatly in male mode there was no question that i was en drab... even though the clothes were "womens".. an hr of hair and makeup, would have been a different story.... so guys can pull it off as well... just takes a bit of effort to fit the part then dress it down.