More Outing Advice Needed

[Stephanie]

I posted awhile back about a planned outing that my wife and were planning towards the middle of last month. Well, the outing went as planned and we spent the greater part of an afternoon out at a nearby mall with me completely en femme. I'm pleased to say that the outing went well, at least for me. I actually felt pretty confident and relaxed (due in no small part to my wife's excellent make up job) and was able to make it through the entire trip (including a couple of side trips to the womens restroom) without any major incidents although my wife stated that I did got "clocked" on at least one occasion (although it obviously wasn't a major incident since I apparently didn't even notice it). She also noted that a guy in one of the shops "noticed" me, so I was apparently "passable" to some degree. Overall, the trip went off without any major problems and we both enjoyed ourselves, however my wife stated afterwards that she felt very frustrated because we could not hug, hold hands, and otherwise express affection for each other as normal (my wife is BIG on affection as am I) for each other. She is also very wary about us going out with me en femme at night (she never wants to go out at night without me). Is there any advice from anybody else's experiences that might help us feel more comfortable about expressing affection for each in public (I'm not talking about making out, just expressing normal couple affection) and/or going out at night with me en femme? Although I am perhaps a little less nervous than she is I have to admit that I have some concerns about both issues. The threat of physical violence towards us if we would be perceived to be lesbians is, unfortunately, very real in our current society (and we don't live in a particularly "liberal" part of the country) :mad: , as is the threat of physical violence towards women in general, particularly at night. The clothes notwithstanding, I'm not a very strong person either physically and fear that I would not be able to respond to an attack to myself (or my wife) adequately. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[Mx Justina]

You are two individuals living together... Grab some self-defense books and videos and practice simple techniques for self-protection!...

Keep in mind that this is (unfortunately) the emerging of New World Order police-state thinking... Anything deemed suspicious behaviour will potentially attract police and public overreaction. Everyone becomes a likely terrorist or potential stalker! Good for repression, but not particularly rational, security-generating.

The average public rest-room is a loaded, damned-if-do and damned-if-don't proposition for crossdressers (even those that can easily pass in public). And misperceptions can turn into trumped-up charges of stalking, lewdnesss or loitering for prostitution... So be well aware of potential misperception risks with public restrooms (best are the single ones with privacy locks). Unisex (and non-private) restrooms are usually safe and convenient in typically gay areas, establishments and buildings only .

J,

[Rainbow6562005]

Hi, Stephanie,
I think that two women can hold hands or one have her arm around the other's shoulders, without attracting negative attention. Around the waist is another matter.
Rainbow

[Toni]

Hi Stephanie,

Surely the easiest way to show affection in a femme kind of way is just to simply link arms. You see girls doing it all the time - especially mother/daughter and "girl friends".
Love & Kisses,
Toni

[Cindy K]

[QUOTE=Stephanie1 The threat of physical violence towards us if we would be perceived to be lesbians is, unfortunately, very real in our current society [/QUOTE]



That’s sounds very sad Stephanie, is that the general attitude there, it sounds like the UK years ago, I was raised in a mining town where gays, lesbians and trannys would have been lynched twenty years ago, but now same sex couple’s live together in that same community where they socialise in the pubs and clubs without prejudice, our society seems very tolerant toward gay and lesbians now days, and even cross dressing seems to be coming more accepted over the past couple of years.

[Marla GG]

my wife stated afterwards that she felt very frustrated because we could not hug, hold hands, and otherwise express affection for each other as normal (my wife is BIG on affection as am I) for each other. She is also very wary about us going out with me en femme at night (she never wants to go out at night without me).

Hi Stephanie,

Congratulations on such a successful outing! You two should be really proud of yourselves.

As far as PDA's go (public displays of affection), Angel and I are also very affectionate, very tactile people......but when we've been out as two women, we have chosen not to hold hands and so on. We would definitely do so if we were in an openly gay and lesbian neighborhood or venue, but not at a conservative suburban mall. We just don't need the public scrutiny and stares we would get. We are trying to blend in, not stand out.

I, too, feel more comfortable with us going out in the daytime than at night and have always thought that a higher chance of being read is a small price to pay for safety. CDs who go walking around their neighborhoods late at night....that puzzles me. Yes, people can see you better in the daytime, but the sorts of people who are out during the day are highly unlikely to give you any trouble--verbally or physically--and are probably more inclined to simply play along and treat you as the gender you are presenting. At night, people behave less predictably in my opinion.

[kathy gg]

Hi Stephanie,

I am really happy to hear that for the most part things went well and you both had a nice time.

My husband and I have had many daytime outings, most in malls or city cstreets with lots of shops. he tries to blend in, so usually that is what we are going for and the results are 50/50. 50% maybe notice something different & , 50% are too wrapped up in their own heads to even pay notice.

You asked specificaly about PDA's. This is a tough call. It is hard, becuase we also nromally hold hands or do those gestures out in public that become second nature when you are a couple. There have been many occasions where I physically had to stop myself before my hand made contact with Amandas. Bottom line is unless we are out in th gay/lesbian/tg freindly area of town it does not happen. Like marla said, those things like hand holding, make that TWO women holding hands would garner attentiion and you might not want that kind if they happen to be jerks.

As for nightime outings. Again, we tend to be creatures of habit and most of our outings have been in the evening. Again we pick places where we know there won't be problems. And even then you get the occasional jerk yelling out from hsi car as he passes "dykes!"

W are lucky that Toronto tends to be a pretty open minded city. There is even a well known drag bar in the Little Italy section of town and you can't get more posturing than that area of town! But mostly we stick to the more bohemian/alternative areas of town and don't go anywhere we are not really familair with.

Good luck, and I hope you both get to expericne more of the outside without problem

hugs
kathy in canada


I posted awhile back about a planned outing that my wife and were planning towards the middle of last month. Well, the outing went as planned and we spent the greater part of an afternoon out at a nearby mall with me completely en femme. I'm pleased to say that the outing went well, at least for me. I actually felt pretty confident and relaxed (due in no small part to my wife's excellent make up job) and was able to make it through the entire trip (including a couple of side trips to the womens restroom) without any major incidents although my wife stated that I did got "clocked" on at least one occasion (although it obviously wasn't a major incident since I apparently didn't even notice it). She also noted that a guy in one of the shops "noticed" me, so I was apparently "passable" to some degree. Overall, the trip went off without any major problems and we both enjoyed ourselves, however my wife stated afterwards that she felt very frustrated because we could not hug, hold hands, and otherwise express affection for each other as normal (my wife is BIG on affection as am I) for each other. She is also very wary about us going out with me en femme at night (she never wants to go out at night without me). Is there any advice from anybody else's experiences that might help us feel more comfortable about expressing affection for each in public (I'm not talking about making out, just expressing normal couple affection) and/or going out at night with me en femme? Although I am perhaps a little less nervous than she is I have to admit that I have some concerns about both issues. The threat of physical violence towards us if we would be perceived to be lesbians is, unfortunately, very real in our current society (and we don't live in a particularly "liberal" part of the country) :mad: , as is the threat of physical violence towards women in general, particularly at night. The clothes notwithstanding, I'm not a very strong person either physically and fear that I would not be able to respond to an attack to myself (or my wife) adequately. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[Stephanie]

Thanks everybody for your encouragement and advice, especially about learning some self-defense techniques, something that would definitely be useful regardless of whether I'm going out en femme or not with my wife. It's something that I've wanted to learn more about but just never really had the time to do but I definitely plan on checking out some books (got some on hold as we speak). Personally, I don't think I feel AS nervous about these things as my wife is but I want her to feel comfortable about our "outings" and to be able to relax and enjoy herself as much as I do. I plan on letting her initiate any future "outings" and hopefully, in time, she will become more comfortable and we will be able to enjoy many more such "outings" in the future. Thanks again! Everybody on this board is so wonderful! :)