Unacceptance is not natural, it's cultural

[vetobob9]

In my research of history, men have crossed dressed for thousands of years because, until relatively recently, clothes have always been unisexual, much like the scarf.
At the current time, the majority of Americans may not accept this, but I guarantee that as they become more enlightened, cross dressing, will be more acceptable in the future.
It is not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.
Everything is moving in that direction. Likely by the middle of this century or the end of it. By 2050 or 2100 not only will this be acceptable but it will become widespread as a fashion. Unless there is a revolution in men's fashions.

[Edwina]

Thanks for that Bob, but as I am in the age group of people who don't buy green bananas any more, I am not going to be around to see it:D

Edwina

[Jane G]

Can't completly agree with you here. It's cutrual no doubt, however ,though I can see a time when the majority may/will eccept that people wear what colour and style of clothing they like. I can not see a time when the majority of people accecpt 6ft 4 individuals, with large hands, large boobs and oddly shaped hips, no matter how natual their make up and presentation. I would love to be wrong only time will tell.

Looking forward to the debate.

[Rianna Humble]

Not sure how many of us will still be around to see if Bob's predictions for 2100 will actually come true :sad:

I do think there is something in the post - my beautician is from a different generation to me and she is not at all phased by the idea that I am a crossdresser.

[kellycan27]

Society is becoming more and more accepting, it's just hard to see from behind closed doors or while hidden in a closet. I believe that a lot of us are starting to see that, as witnessed by the ever increasing number of " I did it" posts, that have resulted in positive outings. It is by no means perfect,but we are moving in the right direction. People that have been hiding or in fear for 20 or 30 years (for good reason) only have what things were like when they started to draw from. Old habits die hard. Self acceptance is the key. If we let fear or shame keep us on the fringe,society will never have the opportunity to see that we are in fact as normal as they are, and certainly not a threat. Everyday more and more of us are seeing that we can in fact live, work, and play right along side our mainstream brothers and sisters. From what I gather from the postings on just this site, we're not going to see a massive uprising, it's going to be more along the lines of one or two at a time, taking that leap of faith. Society can't learn to embrace us if we hide from them, and may even wonder why we are in fact hiding. Do we in fact fit the stereotypical description? Are they hiding because we are ashamed of what we do, or because we are doing wrong?
There will always be those that will not accept someone who is different, but I believe that they are more the exception than the rule. People are basically good, so are we going to let a few dictate how we live our lives? Are we going to accomplish change by speaking through a crack in the door, or wishing it so amongst ourselves. I don't think so. Personally I am not waiting around until I am 60 to find out of Bob's prediction comes to pass. I am taking my slice of the pie now!

[Shari]

I predict there will be world peace and honesty in government.

None of you will be here to prove me wrong.

[Kate Simmons]

Since this is only part of a huge Multiverse, there is one world where that already happened. There is another world wherin CDing is the "norm" and expected.If one does not do it, they are considered abnormal. The strangest one of all, however, is the world wherein the dominant CDers are women who want to "pass" as guys, to the frustration of their male SO's who cannot understand why their little lambs would want to do such a thing.:)

[Laura_Stephens]

Well.....

In the 23rd century, Captain Kirk is still wearing pants and Lt. Ohura is still wearing skirts. It may come to pass, but it will long after my great grandchildren reach retirement.

[Karren H]

Is that a money back guarantee?

[Joni Marie Cruz]

Well said, Kelly.

Hugs...Joni Mari

[Alicia Grey]

I am a Time traveler, I went from 1936 to 2009. Unfortunately it took me 73 years to do so.

The first time I went out enfemme was 1960. The results were disastrous. I went to a town close by and went in a furniture store. one of the salesmen took a look and assumed a crouching position, slack jawed like a frightened Neanderthal. I got out of there like a frightened gazelle.

the last time was this Halloween. The acceptance was somewhat better, however the men were still in the non accepting phase.

[Nicole Erin]

Kellycan, that is by far, the best post I have seen from anyone in a long time. :thumbsup:

Ya know, everyone worries about passing, and many may never be able to cause of life situation or cost-prohibitations etc...
Even the ones who pass well or are stealth, they have challenges too. Worrying about being outed somehow, or family or friends who know not being accepting, etc.

Pass or not we all have our cross to bear regarding our TG status.

OK then so if for the TG community, if passing is not often an option or even a guarantee of a better life, then yeah, why not work more towards acceptance?

I am not so passable myself but I am out there. I may be the only TG that some people see. Sometimes when people ask questions instead of just showing hate, I try to educate them a bit.

[Sarah Michelle]

there's also a line of thought in medicine that death will be optional by 2025, maybe we will be around to see cross-dressing become mainstream.
but I'm betting death as an option comes first......

[Jamie001]

Amen,

Kelly could not have said it better!! We need to stop being ashamed of who we are and stop cowering in the closet. The only way to make progress is to be proud of who and what we are and get out there in the world and be proud and be seen. All of the girls here should make this a goal for 2010 and we will all make significant progress. We can't hide and wait for other girls to do this for us. Let's get out there and take our piece of the pie and show that world that we are just like everyone else except for the clothing that we wear.

:2c: Jamie



Society is becoming more and more accepting, it's just hard to see from behind closed doors or while hidden in a closet. I believe that a lot of us are starting to see that, as witnessed by the ever increasing number of " I did it" posts, that have resulted in positive outings. It is by no means perfect,but we are moving in the right direction. People that have been hiding or in fear for 20 or 30 years (for good reason) only have what things were like when they started to draw from. Old habits die hard. Self acceptance is the key. If we let fear or shame keep us on the fringe,society will never have the opportunity to see that we are in fact as normal as they are, and certainly not a threat. Everyday more and more of us are seeing that we can in fact live, work, and play right along side our mainstream brothers and sisters. From what I gather from the postings on just this site, we're not going to see a massive uprising, it's going to be more along the lines of one or two at a time, taking that leap of faith. Society can't learn to embrace us if we hide from them, and may even wonder why we are in fact hiding. Do we in fact fit the stereotypical description? Are they hiding because we are ashamed of what we do, or because we are doing wrong?
There will always be those that will not accept someone who is different, but I believe that they are more the exception than the rule. People are basically good, so are we going to let a few dictate how we live our lives? Are we going to accomplish change by speaking through a crack in the door, or wishing it so amongst ourselves. I don't think so. Personally I am not waiting around until I am 60 to find out of Bob's prediction comes to pass. I am taking my slice of the pie now!

[Jilmac]

I'll be long in my grave when that happens. Perhaps I can request pink carnations on my headstone with my epitaph "Crossdresser in life and death"

[audreyinalbany]

depends what you mean by 'acceptance.' I've been out and about a few times en femme and no one has ever said anything or done anything bad. I've not gotten any insults or taunts. I mean, look how far gay rights has come over the last couple dozen years. I don't think twice about people being gay; characters on television are frequently depicted as gay; plenty of people I know are openly gay...it's certainly not the big deal it used to be. Crossdressing is a bit different because we're presenting as something we're not...gays are presenting as what they are. But, by and large, I think the taboo against crossdressing is considerably less than it was even ten or fifteen years ago.

[aggi123]

Crossdressing is a bit different because we're presenting as something we're not...


I'm presenting myself as what I am right now and there isn't anyone that can convince me otherwise.

[Starling]

Kelly, I'm glad you mentioned there's pie for coming out. Some people need an extra incentive.

:heehee: Lallie

[StaceyJane]

I am planning on not only being alive in 2100 but be in better shape than I am now.


Well, maybe not..

[tricia_uktv]

Girls, why don't we just go out there and make it happen????

[sherri52]

Bob changes for men always seem to take forever. Women on the other hand make thier changes faster. Not because they are women but because they stick together. For more info, makeup was originally made for men

[Alice Torn]

"Lady, Willpower! It's now or never!"

[vetobob9]

Interesting about the makeup.
It can work the other way too. For example, pantyhose were originally made for women. But women don't like to wear it.
The manufacturers found that the people who buy their product and use it most are men. Guess what happened. They started targeting men.
Such that today, more men than women wear pantyhose.
That includes those guys that are unaccepting of men wearing women's clothing.

EDIT: I would also note that bra manufactureres are now targeting both men and women. Especially the older male crowd.

[MarcieBflo]

I predict there will be world peace and honesty in government.

None of you will be here to prove me wrong.

:rofl: Good one Shari !!!! If their is going to be honesty in goverment . . . . I'll still be around in 2100 . . . and look like a spring chicken, in a skirt in public & be accepted . . . . I think I shall have another :drink: . . . thank you, anyone care to join me . . . . .

[jenna_woods]

I don't really agree with you but peopleare begrning to accept us more and more.

[sometimes_miss]

It's not just about the clothes, it's about emulating them. Working on presenting ourselves as females is a big deal to a lot of people. They aren't so bothered by women wearing genuine men's clothing, because those women usually aren't trying to present and act like like men. Where as, we are dressing like women, trying to take on mannerisms of women, putting on make up as women, etc..
It's going to take a long time, if ever, before all of the world gets comfortable with this. I don't see it happening in our lifetime, though tolerance will get more widespread. But I don't see women becoming any more attracted to us in the future than they are now.

[Jezebella]

In my research of history, men have crossed dressed for thousands of years because, until relatively recently, clothes have always been unisexual, much like the scarf.

How recently is recently? Seems to me we have to go back to the time of ancient Rome to find a period when men and women were wearing essentially the same fashions (i.e., robes and sandals).

[CamilleLeon]

What's considered "normal" has always been a cultural thing. Crossdressing in particular shows how arbitrary this can be as women wearing men's clothing is considered normal, however a man wearing a dress is "deviant." However, our society and culture have been becoming progressively more liberal for years...

Movements for African Americans, womens, and homosexuals have been huge driving forces towards a world in which all are treated equally. To get the same fair treatment, we as crossdressers just need to be more public and raise awareness.

...basically, yes someday society will completely accept us, I believe anyway :daydreaming:

[Michelle 2774]

I can see some of your point, but I too have my reservations...

I get my nails done (clear polish) and there are some men who do find that to be too "femme" and make snide jokes about me. I sure hope so, and if it does, then we truly are the pioneers!

[ReineD]

I disagree there was unisex clothing throughout our history:

Ancient Egyptian, Moors, Turks, Persian, Greek, Roman, etc. (http://www.siue.edu/COSTUMES/COSTUME1_INDEX.HTML)

Seventeenth and Eighteenth Centuries (http://www.siue.edu/COSTUMES/COSTUME11_INDEX.HTML)

Nineteenth Century (http://www.siue.edu/COSTUMES/COSTUME21_INDEX.HTML)

Men were dressed more elaborately than today, but their styles were still different than women's.

But, I do agree that gender lines are blurring now, not only in the workforce and in family gender roles, but in fashion as well. I've seen quite a few fashion articles about it since last summer.

Androgyny Becoming Global (http://uniorb.com/RCHECK/RAndrogyny.htm) - Diana Lee, March 2005.

Androgynous Illuminati Fashion (http://pseudoccultmedia.blogspot.com/2009/07/androgynous-illuminati-fashion.html) - Pseudo-Occult Media, July 2009.

It's All A Blur To Them (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/19/fashion/19ANDROGYNY.html?pagewanted=1&8dpc) - New York Times, November 2009.

Urban Americans revisiting gender-appropriate dressing (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/11/18/fashion/20091119-androgyny-feature/index.html) - New York Times undated video (girls first half, boys second half)

[vetobob9]

How recently is recently? Seems to me we have to go back to the time of ancient Rome to find a period when men and women were wearing essentially the same fashions (i.e., robes and sandals).

Two key words there. First the word "relatively" and the word "Rome".

Homo Sapiens Sapiens has been around for a couple of hundred thousand years and if you include our immediate ancestors, we've been here for a couple of million years. The time of the Roman Empire was barely 2,000 years ago. That's just yesterday when you consider the whole span of humanity's existence.

[vetobob9]

I can see some of your point, but I too have my reservations...

I get my nails done (clear polish) and there are some men who do find that to be too "femme" and make snide jokes about me. I sure hope so, and if it does, then we truly are the pioneers!

What's the deal with nail polish? I let my neice do my thumbnail last week. It looked shiny and healthier. She used a sponge thing, I don't know what they call it.

BTW, getting nails done is not just for cross dressers. It's also common among non crossdressing men in the cities. Though, I've never done it. But I'm considering it now that I've seen the result.

Unfortunately, I have a very bad habit of peeling the tips of the nails off when I'm bored.

[FanciJewel]

We are our own obstical to acceptance. Those of us that are over 30 have developed a variation of PTSD when it comes to CD'ing. When we CD we become hypervigilant, develop avoidance techniques and panic if we feel threatened. This has developed because of the psychic trauma we have experienced over our early years of CD'ing. Society hated us then and thought of us as "queer".
Forums, such as this one is therapeutic in the sense that it allows us to tell our stories and realize that there are safe places to be a CD'er.
As time goes on and those that are younger than 30 demonstrate that society is a safer place, those of us who suffer from the CD-PTSD will learn to live with out those horrible symptoms.
I place my hope in the younger CD'ers to reach the goal of normalization of the CD lifestyle.
Fanci

[Joanie_Shakti]

In my research of history, men have crossed dressed for thousands of years because, until relatively recently, clothes have always been unisexual, much like the scarf.
At the current time, the majority of Americans may not accept this, but I guarantee that as they become more enlightened, cross dressing, will be more acceptable in the future.
It is not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.
Everything is moving in that direction. Likely by the middle of this century or the end of it. By 2050 or 2100 not only will this be acceptable but it will become widespread as a fashion. Unless there is a revolution in men's fashions.

By 2050 or 2100, I'm going to be much older and not look as good in the latest fashions as I do now. :devil: By that time, everyone will probably be wearing the same unisex jumpsuit and people my age will have been made into Soylent Green long ago anyway. :confused2::bs: