conditional friendships

[Teri Jean]

As many know I have started my life as Teri and my RLE this past October. With that there will be those who will be supportive as well as those who will not for a variety of reasons.

Today we had our departmental meeting and afterwards one of my co-workers hung back to talk with me. His wife is having a B-Day this month and although she doesn't like to be reminded I knew she likes flowers so I had some delivered. That was not the reason he wanted to talk, it was about my transitioning. He asked about how it was going and how it was going not having the old friends around (Legion members). We talked about acceptance and how some will never accept and then he indicated he had no real problem talking with me or working together but all the other activities will not happen.

So the realization that friendships are determined by a person's outward dress and presentation and not about who the person is inside really hurt. So my question is more retorical but why is it more important for friendships to be about looks than substance?

Thanks for the ear. Teri

[jenna_woods]

I am so happy for you hun

[Sweet Jane]

I guess all of this is one way to find out who are real friends and who are fair weather friends.....my guess is that you'll forge new friendships as you move on with your life and they'll be people who you don't have to explain yourself to

I've found through my life, that some friendships are enduring, but they are a rarity....many friendships like anything else, have an expiry date...people drift away and do different things, and the thing that bonded the friendship is no longer there....

here's a song that sums up my sentiments i guess (I can't seem to get the link thing to work)

"some keys are made for throwing away instead of turning
some people are for knowing, some bridges are for burning down
to the ground"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjjarhhhKu4

[carolinoakland]

Well there are some things that just have to change. I mean there were guys that I only saw naked in the sauna, it's not likely they, or I, would want to continue doing those sorts of things together. I mean, what would the neighbors say? Let alone the wife? I did have one when I visited my best friend and his dog got hairs all over my black clothes. So he grabs the duct tape and starts patting me down to get the hairs off... including my chest and well...breasts. So, I quietly said. "You know, there's just some things you can't do with me anymore..." He stopped and looked at what he was doing...I think he finally stopped blushing around me a month ago...I mean you can still go drinking with your buddy, but you won't be going out back and writing your names in the snow anymore will you now? I hope you know that I'm not defending him pulling back, I think, well it's not what I think... It's your life right? And maybe that's his message to you... It's your life, go live it. And, for the record... I will be one year RLE Jan. 26th! And for me...it's been the best thing I have ever done. Carol

[Kimberly Marie Kelly]

and officially Kimberly Marie at Work for 1 1/2 month's, essentially started my RLE. Well to put it simply I had a friend prior to my transition and would see him every weekend, we'd go to lunch or dinner and just talk. Well as I've changed my dress, started wearing makeup etc. he stopped having lunches with me, we do occassionally talk, but otherwise I havn't seen him in month's. But I've got new closer friends now, my life is happier and more fulfilling. So as they say friends come and go, they are fickle as the wind. Don't let your friend get you down, just because he can't handle things..get better friends. Kimberly Marie Kelly :battingeyelashes:

[Katesback]

Simply put you are not the person that he thought he knew. There is a reason why many therapists will tell a man that walks into the office and starts talking about transition that they want him to present to them as a girl as soon as possible.

The fact is that you will make new friends in your new role and they will replace the old friends. By the way you will find out that you REALLY are a different person to the world.

[SuzanneBender]

Oh you ladies are so sage. This is one of my biggest worries as I wrestle with transistion.

I know I will be crushed when some of those I considered my closest friends move on, but I also have learned that new friends will be made and ofter with a much tighter bond than I ever dreamed of with my old friends.

[AllieSF]

I think part of that conditional acceptance is strongly influenced by what others think or are perceived to think by the accepting party. That influence may be direct, e.g. "You can see TXXX, but I do not want to associate with TXXX nor do I want him/her in my house, or in a group with our friends". It can be indirect in the sense that the accepting person does not have the courage to accept one fully and show it to all others. Or, the accepting person my "think" (correctly or not) that others may dissapprove of him for having a friend like TXXX, and thus he prevents himself from moving beyond that conditional position.

Think about us closeted (not out to friends and family) CD's. Since I am not ready to tell the world in which I live about this side of me, I am also not ready to introduce my friends from this side of my life to my family and friends. I accept how my T friends are, but not to the point that I would introduce them. In a way that is a double standard that I do not like, but need to adopt to maintain my own privacy. I do not hide this approach from my T friends. Many, in fact, are in the same boat as I am.

[pamela_a]

A conditional friendship. I find that an interesting concept.

I'm reminded of something I heard many years ago as I was growing up. A sage old man told me I should strive to have many acquaintances and few friends. Thinking about it, especially recently as I've been transitioning, how very right he was. It seems nobody really understands what "friend" means anymore. We meet someone and based on that 1 meeting we call them a "friend".

The primary definition of friend is a person attached to another by feelings of affection or personal regard.

To me that implies a lot. It tells me that a friend is someone who will stand beside you no matter what happens. It's also someone who isn't afraid to tell you they disagree with you or are concerned that whatever is happening may not be in your best interest. It doesn't mean they blindly agree with everything you do.

I recently experienced that when a friend of mine sat me down and explained that she was concerned about something I was considering doing. She didn't think it was good for me. After listening to her and thinking about it I understood what she was saying and, in thinking more about it myself, concluded she was right. To me that is a friend.
Anyyone can go along with everything you say and tell you whatever you want to hear. A friend is someone who cares about you enough to stand up to you and tell you they think you're wrong whether you want to hear it or not. They may be right or they may be wrong but, in my book at least, it takes a friend to do that.

Are some friends temporary? I think some are. Someone who stays by you for many years I would consider more than just a friend but there are people who are around us certain times of our lives that I believe are true friends but move on. We change, they change, life changes everything and that bond that tied you together slowly changes too. The people who were friends are religated to memories as life takes them different directions. Does that make either one bad? Not necessarily. It's just that friendship is a casualty of the changes of time and life.
Do those changes cause pain? They can, to one or both people, but there is little that can be done about it.

Life is forward. Some friends are bound to be left behind. Either due to their choice, our choice, or mere happenstance our path and theirs separates. When that happens I'm saddened at the loss but I have to remember to keep looking forward because I know somewhere ahead of me is someone else, a new friend, who I will need and will be able to help while our paths are joined.

[Dawn D.]

One could assign the change in friendship status as a loss of male privilege. Although, by no means am I asserting that it's only MTF's that experience this. However, I have noticed recently that more and more of my old friends and acquaintances are no longer wanting to include me in with the "clique".

I get the cold shoulder from males and females (all of whom I have known) alike though. Each had their own "ideal" of how I fit into their inner circle of life. Since transitioning, that "ideal" has changed. In some cases I no longer am considered useful or beneficial to their personal lives, since I don't fit the role in which I was delegated when I was known to them as male.

It's a disconcerting process, it's painful, yet ultimately, it may be necessary in order for us to further find our way through this transition. Yes, we will make new friends and acquaintances. Those new allegiances will be on our terms as our new and true selves. In the end, I feel we will make ourselves stronger for it.


Dawn

[Angel.Marie76]

One could assign the change in friendship status as a loss of male privilege. Although, by no means am I asserting that it's only MTF's that experience this. However, I have noticed recently that more and more of my old friends and acquaintances are no longer wanting to include me in with the "clique".

I get the cold shoulder from males and females (all of whom I have known) alike though. Each had their own "ideal" of how I fit into their inner circle of life. Since transitioning, that "ideal" has changed. In some cases I no longer am considered useful or beneficial to their personal lives, since I don't fit the role in which I was delegated when I was known to them as male.

It's a disconcerting process, it's painful, yet ultimately, it may be necessary in order for us to further find our way through this transition. Yes, we will make new friends and acquaintances. Those new allegiances will be on our terms as our new and true selves. In the end, I feel we will make ourselves stronger for it.


Dawn

I agree with this, and also your signature Dawn, "Courage is being scared to death..............and saddling up anyways" John Wayne -- dang straight, partner!

I already see it on some of my male friend's expressions, wondering , contemplating, the murmurs of 'Why and what next' and so on.. At least one fear that I know of, 'me coming onto them' as a woman, etc., has a few of them scared too. I don't think I'll ever be a woman in their eyes because they see me and think GAY MALE and then it goes awry from there. A few of these people I could see as conditional friendships, in the group sense, at the club and what not, but interacting with them on a one-on-one basis now is probably done and gone unless they achieve some change of heart. Perhaps it's more of a superficial friendliness that they'll now keep, with little else meat below the hood than that shiny exterior. I know, at places like group events/club/etc, I've already seen at least another male go pale when he realized I was Trans. I've seen him since, and 'friended' him online, but I rarely talk to him anymore and he's become distant.

Yet, on the other side of the coin, I've become reassured that so many of my other friends, who were already very pro-LGBT to begin with, have already accepted me with open arms and truly appreciate me for who I really am. It is in these incredible moments of change in our lives that our true friends shine through the darkness.

[Teri Jean]

Than you ladies and your thoughts are very welcome. Last night I thought hard about the coversation we had that day and it really set me aside as of all my male "friends" he seemed to be the most compassionate. He and his wife really took the time to include me into their lives after my wife passed. The thought that it was a self serving motive on their part had me thinking WTF is going on here. After reviewing your comments and observations it may be that real frienships are a thing of the past.

The thought of aquiring aqaintences over friends goes against everything I believed, maybe I'm foolish, and I believe if you have a friend it is unconditional. Those who are acquaintences are just that. You can and should be friendly to them but they are not those who you hold close. So with your help I have stepped over the hurtle or pothole in the road and moving forward.

Thank you for your ear and sholder. Huggs Teri

[Brandi Wyne]

Like some of you have commented, we don't fit someone's "ideal" or "got used to" image anymore. I am a closet girl, too, for now but I see small and growing changes in me and my appearance to others. What does that mean for me?

I have had one or two folks I always could call "friend" over the many years and miles. However, when I was the one who was able to bend to their needs as friends while others rejected them, that was ok with them and me becaues I was their friend. Now, when I am the one who is changing and not fitting some "ideal" that they still held as sacred, then I'm just out - a pile of dog crap to them. The pain was so deep and so utterly devastating that I finally realized that they were NOT friends but folks that were agreeable to be with, but only to a point in time and space.

The Bible states that "a friend is a brother for times of trouble." How often do you think that is the case with the folks you or I know? I have found out that even my marriage is more like being two people who find it agreeable to be with each other, to a point. I realize that she is not my friend but someone who clings to something I was at a different time and place. There is no doubt that my children would mostly behave in the same manner. Now that's ironic since they have one and all left the things my wife holds dear and yet they would be on the same side of the issue when it comes to me transitioning to my femme self.

I'm too "talkie" on this subject but it's a core issue for a society that is failing the test of rising above the thin vail of basic civility.

Love you all.:love:

[JennyTG24]

hiya teri, i have just experianced this myself, i mean it hasn't even been a week. i told my 2 best friends about myself 6 yrs ago and they was supportive and there for me when i was suffering with deppression. i told them on thursday of last week that i need to start doing things so i could stop the hurt and start living a life where i was happy and comftable but when i told them that i am going to start dressing full time i got shouted at and my who life was questioned including the hard desitions we all have to make. it was so hurtful considering i didnt just bring it up that they new about this for 6 yrs. im still feeling hurt now but what i have realized is that if people dont understand things they turn it into a joke without realizing all the facts. people can be so narrow minded.. it is true what they say : Friendships should be based on what is inside not based on the the outside... other people dont get judged on this so why do we ?

[Rianna Humble]

Hi Teri,

I understand your hurt and also what you mean about conditional friendship.

I have several dozen people that I would have called "Friends" up until recently, but have come to realise lately that their "friendship" depended upon what they could get from me.

Taking stock, I now think that I have 3 true friends and a small number of close acquaintances although some of the 2nd group may eventually move to the 1st.

Of those 3, one GG does not know about me, one learnt recently and is very supportive although she does not know any other TG people and the third I met through this forum.

[Kerigirl2009]

Because most people worry about what the other person is going to say and then they worry how it will effect them.
So everyone worries about themselves before they consider the feelings of anyone else.
Nobody wants to be embarrassed even if it has nothing to do with them.

This is what I was talking about when I said it would be so much easier to go out when you know for sure no one you know will be there.

I can defend myself to a stranger, but if I ran into a friend that knows my male side exclusivily, I would not know what to do, and I guess neither would they.

I hope things get better for you. Just keep remembering you can get new friends that only know Teri. :)

[Teri Jean]

Kitty there is a lot of truth in what you are saying and sometimes the posture of those who you thought would be there is because of issues at home. A spouce may say "you are not going to associate with that person" and to keep peace they back away. There is other pressures that will put people off; work, businesses, or affiliations. So now one thickens the skin and moves on.

Years ago, okay decades ago, I had finally had enough cr** from an individual and I made a pact with myself and since have held to it. That being "do not tell me I cannot do something", especially if I have set my mind on doing it. Obviously that would be anything legal. So when I set my mind to doing something I will work it through to the end. To that end my transition will not be detered by an outside source as I will answer to myself as to what is right for me.

Now the best thing I can bring to the forum is a sweet gg acquaintence of mine was getting her eyes checked at the same time I was picking out my new glasses. I had no idea she would be there so when she walked up to say hi and give me a hug I almost cried. That little gift of affection was like throwing the life ring to a sruggling swimmer.
Maybe a few flowers to say thank you. Hmmmmmm

Thank you all for your thoughts and help and please take care. Teri with huggs

[Schatten Lupus]

I've not had many friends in life. Most of my friends have been coworkers at some point in time, and eventually, for one reason or another, we have parted ways. I have had three long term friendships, two of them have moved states away and it's been difficult keeping in touch with, and the other one probably won't last. The few times I do hang out with him I can see in myself how much my mind set has changed since I have accepted myself, and have slowly been doing away with my masculine side. One very close friend I use to have, she would have been accepting of me, and I know this because she had a FtM friend, started dating a religious wacko (and by this I mean someone who is way out their), and turned her into a religious nut case. It would have been nice to have had her support, but when he convienced her the Di Vinci Code is a bad movie because it implies Jesus was a man, I knew it was best to part as friends instead of souring the friendship as I pointed out the obvious.

[sempervirens]

I'm sorry for your difficulties, losing or having restrictions on friendships is really difficult.

Some people differentiate unconditional love from unconditional acceptance, but IMO, unconditional anything exists between parents and children, and God and the rest of us. Our friends are those who'd see us through difficulties and see past some of our shortcomings, or life choices they don't agree with. Friends won't easily overlook things, though, that are in conflict with their core values. Ironically, sometimes even the friends who would risk their lives to save us can't stand by as we transition. I have one of those, maybe two.

The other thing is give it time. One of my friends came around, and it took her about a year. We want to be accepted right away, but if someone has known you for years, it takes them time to process everything. Beyond what they feel for you, and how they've grown to see you, it also challenges pretty basic assumptions (gender) about how they see the world in general. IME it was pretty surprising to see who came around to a place of acceptance, and who didn't... acceptance or a lack of it transcends gender, religion, political views, age, etc.

Make new friends and try to keep the old :hugs:

[Angel.Marie76]

....
I can defend myself to a stranger, but if I ran into a friend that knows my male side exclusivily, I would not know what to do, and I guess neither would they.
....


Just a curious thought, and not to go too far off base for this thread, but if I assume you do go out and about, the chances of bumping into someone you know is very real; You should start planning for that eventuality. Just remember to be proud of who you are, inside and out, and to hold yourself high! Funny thing, this thread made me think of this song:

"Ain't nothing gonna break my stride
Nobody's gonna slow me down
Oh no, I've got to keep on moving
Ain't nothing gonna break my stride
I'm running and I won't touch ground
Oh no,(oh no...) I've got to keep on moving..."

Regardless if it's friends, family, or strangers, you should never look down or away at yourself. I even admit, on the co-worker / friend thought, I bumped into MY MANAGER at the grocery store this past weekend, but I hadn't come out to him yet. I was terrified because I wasn't prepared, but yet, going into my transitional status in the store wasn't the time or place (at least for me). If he had started asking, I would have had to ad-lib quite a bit.

Anyway, I know I already made my point before - real friends will give you the shirt of their back, with no questions asked.

[Teri Jean]

Thank you all again and so everyone knows where I am in my transition comfort zone; I was working in the pool at work today doing some maintanence that needed to be done even though the pool had not been drained. Everything was done and everything stayed in place too, LOL. The swim team must have thought I was out of my mind but the women just smiled and said thanks. I work at a university doing building repair.

So as I said in another thread of fav lines. Let's kick the tires and light the fires. There is nothing like doing mach 2+ with your panties on fire.

Have a great day ladies and a quick update my co-worker is trying to get more comfortable and stop by more. Is it something you all have said or was it something I said? It would have been the same either way. Huggs and smooches. Okay doggie kiss! Teri gottcha