The importance of passing

[vetobob9]

I've seen a couple of threads on this and I curious as to how important it is to pass as a girl.
Why is it important?

[Super Amanda]

That depends on the person, IMO. It matters and is important to me because I am transitioning, and am going to be full time soon. Passing could be the difference between getting a job or not, or even being safer from violence and bigotry.

[Sarah Doepner]

I'm beginning to think it all depends on the individual. For some it is their goal and they do a very good job of that. However, some of us don't have the ability to pass and if we set that as our "gold standard", we are setting ourselves up to fail. I've said it a number of times that my expectation is to be "passed by" before they turn around and either suspect or know they've passed a crossdresser. That gives me a few steps head start and that's all I need.

[Stephanie Miller]

Everyone has a different reason. Just a short story first: Back when I was in college I had a very good friend that just happened to be black. One night we were sitting at the local pizza parlor when another person came up to Clayton and started talking and doing the buddy buddy thing. After he left Clayton had this very exasperated look, so I just had to ask why. What he said has carried with me through the rest of my crossdressing life. He said he really just wish people would treat him normal. He went on to explain that when he was with a group of his own color nobody treated anyone any different. But when outside of that group people had a tendency to either treat him special (in a better way) or more degraded. They just had a hard time treating him normal. (In the course of full disclosure let it be know I let him pay for the beer to show him I held no favoritism :D )
Now please don’t jump down my throat for being racist or feel like I’m ditzing people of color. Far from it. I am just paraphrasing the conversation as I remember it just to get a point across.
What he was getting at, I think, is the same way I (as Stephanie) gets treated when out in public. People either go overboard because they want to show that they are accepting (hip, in a way) or they completely take you to task and degrade. Very few just treat me as normal. Now on days that the stars align and I do indeed pass, (and you know when you do and when you really don’t), I get the feeling where I know I really was born in the wrong skin. I never really feel that I achieve passing, but at least I get to the point where I kid myself enough to think I do. And that……….. is when life is good.

[Natasha TG]

I put a lot of effort into the outfits, makeup, and female mannerisms; does that mean that I put a lot of emphasis on passing?

I do like to blend in - Initially going out I was really focused/hoping on not getting read, but after being out to shopping, restaurants, bars and clubs I am comfortable with myself and I am more interested in looking for reactions whether they are good or bad.:D

I have stopped practicing voice training falsetto for a few months now, right now I am just comfortable with my own voice and just soften it slightly.

I like it when GG's read my confidence and I tend to always strike up interesting conversations whether it is pure curisosty, complimenting me on my looks or just asking me out for a date:heehee:

guys I have met on the other hand are split into 4 observations, homophobic, curiosity, bi-curiousity and guys trying to get to 2nd base:daydreaming:

sorry to get offtopic - bottom line is I guess I strive to pass but not ultimately the goal for me:hugs:

[kellycan27]

Very simply put.... Passing ( for me) is the ability to live my life just like everyone else, without being a curiosity, or seen as being "different."

Kel

[marcia pisch]

It is important if that is the way you want to live your life. It is not so important if you just want to dress in the privacy of your own home. That is something you have to choose for yourself.

[Sweet Jane]

my personal philosophy is that if passing as a female 100% of the is your measure, then you are bound to fail...what you do need to pass as, is a sane, rational, competent, reasonably 'normal' human being with values and morals that somewhat approach societal norms

by doing that people can accept your many more obvious 'faults' and the wee clues to your birth gender are totally overlooked if you can prove the above traits

i guess maybe 1 in a thousand of us will be able to pass flawlessly, the rest of us just have to make sure that by our actions we don't bring ourselves into disrepute.....

i guess the way many act or dress invites derision, and being the 'obvious' overt tgirls, they stigmatise the rest of us...most people never give me a second thought i'm sure, but that doesn't mean i 'pass'...it just means i 'conform'

[Alice Torn]

If the team does not have much of a running game, then passing becomes very important!

[Rachel Morley]

It all depends on what you're looking for I guess. I mean to say, suppose I was TS and was also fully transitioned, post op SRS, and everything, I would want to pass as a girl all the time if possible.

However, I'm not TS. I'm CD, so while I do prefer to pass if I possibly can, if I fail, I do have a kinda get-out clause (or that's how I like to think if it) as if I get read I'll say to myself, "what do you expect? ... you're a dude! ... you're not even on hormones." :straightface: In other words (in my own mind) I use my "only being a CDer" thought to help me when I'm feeling pressured or I put unrealistic expectations upon myself.

[NathalieX66]

I have fun with people taking a second look at me. This coming saturday will be round six in public for me, since the Great Purge of '99-09. I'm a clothes horse, and all I care is that I look good in them. The dynamics of human interaction is so much more fun this way.
I am (proudly) imperfect as anybody, and I have no interest or plans for HRT, or the knife of Dr. Osterhout in Montreal. :battingeyelashes:

[docrobbysherry]

Everyone has a different reason. Just a short story first: Back when I was in college I had a very good friend that just happened to be black. One night we were sitting at the local pizza parlor when another person came up to Clayton and started talking and doing the buddy buddy thing. After he left Clayton had this very exasperated look, so I just had to ask why. What he said has carried with me through the rest of my crossdressing life. He said he really just wish people would treat him normal. He went on to explain that when he was with a group of his own color nobody treated anyone any different. But when outside of that group people had a tendency to either treat him special (in a better way) or more degraded. They just had a hard time treating him normal. (In the course of full disclosure let it be know I let him pay for the beer to show him I held no favoritism :D )
Now please don’t jump down my throat for being racist or feel like I’m ditzing people of color. Far from it. I am just paraphrasing the conversation as I remember it just to get a point across.
What he was getting at, I think, is the same way I (as Stephanie) gets treated when out in public. People either go overboard because they want to show that they are accepting (hip, in a way) or they completely take you to task and degrade. Very few just treat me as normal. Now on days that the stars align and I do indeed pass, (and you know when you do and when you really don’t), I get the feeling where I know I really was born in the wrong skin. I never really feel that I achieve passing, but at least I get to the point where I kid myself enough to think I do. And that……….. is when life is good.

My father used to explain it to me this way,
" Son, u need to be color blind. If u EVEN NOTICE a person is DIFFERENT, then, you're PREJUDICED! " :eek:

Black, yellow, foreign accent, passing. It's ALL THE SAME! If folks notice you're different, then, LIVE WITH IT! Or, stay at home! :brolleyes:

[jenniferj]

As a result of genes and college football (many decades ago) it is unlikely that anyone who looks closely at me (6'2" 250lb) is not going to look again and realize that I am mostly a guy underneath.

My goal while out is to provide a comfortable enough image that few people look closely, and those that do notice how nicely I am dressed.

DSW (DearSweetWife) and I have discussed this many times, and I put forth the hope that the people who see the guy underneath will see that I am also a nice, non-threatening person and smile nicely. I don't go out much locally, but in NewYorkCity this seems pretty much to be the case.

I'd like to think that in my own way, I'm spreading tolerance and acceptance for us all. (But I also like to wear really pretty things:daydreaming:)

-jj

[Nicole Erin]

Passing could be the difference between getting a job or not, or even being safer from violence and bigotry.

pretty much what I think.

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

As others have said it does depend on the person. I personally don't really care much for the entire concept of passing and I even would go so far as to say sometimes I think it hurts us more than helps us, but everyone needs to find their own path so if passing is what makes others happy, who am I to tell them it shouldn't?

[Sandy Banks]

Being a Gemini, I have also wished to be someone else besides myself(totally cool with myself). By working on being the best Sandy I can helps me toward my goal and passing becomes part of that. And if I can lose 20 lbs. I'll be happier for both of me.:)

[Kate Simmons]

Depends on the person really and how they may feel it affects their self image and how others view them.:)

[sherri52]

The importance is to the individual. Some feel that in order to perceive themselves as a woman, they must be able to look, dress. sound, and act as a woman.
Be confident in how you feel and you will be who you want to be

[windycissy]

For many if not most, passing as a woman is a hopeless dream, and having the honesty to recognize that is important if you want to avoid embarrassment and worse...for the lucky ones who have been blessed with the physical attributes and are willing to work at it, passing opens a door to a whole new world, and I'm always surprised by this question. It's like if you were a terrific golfer and somebody asked you, "why do you feel the need to lower you handicap?" We, as guys, are competitive by nature, and if you have the chops to pass as a woman, it's only natural that you're going to want to take it as far as you can, and the ultimate measure is to be seen and treated like a woman.

[AllieSF]

I agree with Cissy. Even though I know that I will never pass all the time at a distance and probably never close up, I still am always trying to look better, more natural and still have fun while not over laboring with looking perfect. As Cissy can testify, my main thrill and high from all this is to be able to go out and just be me, the person inside my body no matter how dressed. It is not so much about passing, probably closer to blending and not looking like the complete fool.

[Hope]

As a result of genes and college football (many decades ago) it is unlikely that anyone who looks closely at me (6'2" 250lb) is not going to look again and realize that I am mostly a guy underneath.

At 6'2" I understand your concerns, though I have pushed off some of my pudge and I am down to 136 and dropping if the Wii is to be believed. But that is beside the point.

When I finished up with my first therapy session with my gender therapist - one in which I bemoaned my size as an excuse for not passing - the wife and I went grocery shopping and encountered a woman who was at least 6'4", and since I have been paying more attention I have seen more of them.

My mother used to tell me (I'm not sure why) that there are no ugly women in the world, only lazy women. Having spent a decade in the Midwest, I think she is likely right.

Here is the point: We CAN pass. Will it take more work? You betcha. But it is definitely possible. Don't let your height get you down.

[tamarav]

This topic always leaves me feeling a bit like an outsider. I don't plan on passing and I don't plan on blending in. My goal is to look the best I can and let others decide if they are going to make anything of it.

I worked at Macy's over the holidays at the fragrance and cosmetic counters. I met and talked with many customers, sold thousands of dollars worth of cosmetics and fragrances to hundreds of people. I did not care what people thought or worried about what they might say. You simply can't do that and remain happy. And believe me, I was very happy!

Simply be who you are and enjoy it, what is the alternative?

[RachelPortugal]

My father used to explain it to me this way,
" Son, u need to be color blind. If u EVEN NOTICE a person is DIFFERENT, then, you're PREJUDICED! " :eek:

Black, yellow, foreign accent, passing. It's ALL THE SAME! If folks notice you're different, then, LIVE WITH IT! Or, stay at home! :brolleyes:

My sentiments exactly.

I feel that passing is probably more important as a TS than as a CD/TV like myself.

Personally, as a CD/TV I am dressing as a woman, made up as a woman but do not expect to always pass as a woman. From a distance I may pass, but close up it would probably be obvious to most people that I am a CD/TV. It is the reaction that is perhaps more important, and provided that it is not hostile I can live with it.

Luv

Rachael
XXX
:battingeyelashes:

[Sarah_new]

I put a lot of effort into the outfits, makeup, and female mannerisms; does that mean that I put a lot of emphasis on passing?

I do like to blend in - Initially going out I was really focused/hoping on not getting read, but after being out to shopping, restaurants, bars and clubs I am comfortable with myself and I am more interested in looking for reactions whether they are good or bad.:D

I have stopped practicing voice training falsetto for a few months now, right now I am just comfortable with my own voice and just soften it slightly.

I like it when GG's read my confidence and I tend to always strike up interesting conversations whether it is pure curisosty, complimenting me on my looks or just asking me out for a date:heehee:

guys I have met on the other hand are split into 4 observations, homophobic, curiosity, bi-curiousity and guys trying to get to 2nd base:daydreaming:

sorry to get offtopic - bottom line is I guess I strive to pass but not ultimately the goal for me:hugs:

This reply from Natasha kind sums up my attitude to passing, but I'll explain in my own words as well.

For me, whatever I do in my life I always strive to do it to the best of my abilities and then a little better next time. So with that view, yes I am trying to pass. I do try and put an outfit together that looks appropriate and is co-ordinated. I do get annoyed with my lack of skill at make up at times, but I remove and re-apply. When I'm out en femme I'm consciously thinking about my movements etc.

But do I pass? Well, probably not close up and when interacting. I honestly believe that from a distance I can and do pass.

Have I had any problems? No, fortunately I haven't, but that may also being due to taking care of where and when to do go out. This also reminds me of my MAC makeover and my good friend make-up artist who said to me, "if anyone has a problem with you like this, then it is their problem not yours and whilst you're here they'll have me to answer to first". Her other comments have been "good for you" when she has she me out etc. She has been one of my biggest confidence builders in all of this.

So to answer the original question, yes passing is important because for me it is a measure of how good a job I'm doing of this, but it is not a do or die goal. I have no intention of transitioning so from that perspective it's not critical, but just me trying my best.

[Renee_E]

It is a wonderful dream for me but not a goal. I am sure I couldn't pass completely; too many masculine features. I might get away as a "that might be a girl " at a distance. But it is just not important to me.

[Claire Cook]

DSW (DearSweetWife) and I have discussed this many times, and I put forth the hope that the people who see the guy underneath will see that I am also a nice, non-threatening person and smile nicely. I don't go out much locally, but in NewYorkCity this seems pretty much to be the case.

I'd like to think that in my own way, I'm spreading tolerance and acceptance for us all.
-jj


For many if not most, passing as a woman is a hopeless dream, and having the honesty to recognize that is important if you want to avoid embarrassment and worse...

JJ and Cissy have summarized my feelings. We are fooling ourselves to think we are "passing" all of the time, but if people can accept us and appreciate that we can wear women's clothes well, then score points for our side. On those occasions when I'm addressed as "sir", I'm proud of the fact that I have the wherewithall to wear a dress in public. Maybe the one time I do want to "pass" is using the ladies' room, but so far that has not been a problem. (Even then, it's more important to be "passing water"...)

[msginaadoll]

I think passing can mean you are not harrassed or that are accepted in the environment you are in. On the other hand I have not had problems when out and dont think I pass so who knows.

[nikki_cd05]

People have all kinds of reasons for wanting to pass. I for one would like the outside of my body to match the inside. Haveing said this, I really feel that this whole thing is very simmilar to bodybuilding. A bodybuilder has an ideal body that he/she is trying to achieve, then commits 100% of their energy to create that look. Is that not what some of us are doing here? I mean really, it is a lifestyle. You can choose to be a bodybuilder, a pro-sports player, a high end lawer, whatever. If you want to reach the top tier in whatever it is you are trying to do, YOU HAVE TO BUY THE RANCH! I want to look and feel female, not just feel like one. Therfore, PASSING is the only way I will feel complete.
Nikki

[Lorileah]

This topic always leaves me feeling a bit like an outsider. I don't plan on passing and I don't plan on blending in. My goal is to look the best I can and let others decide if they are going to make anything of it.

That's what I wanted to say but can never get in words. If you take 30 minutes to two hours getting "pretty" why do you want to disappear? If that is the case, why bother? To "Pass" in today's world, wear minimal make up (brows and maybe mascara), lip gloss instead of lip stick, loose clothing and slacks. Lose the heels, especially over 1". I look like that everyday. (Well except the brows :))


Oh the answer to the question is No it isn't important to me to pass.

[Miranda09]

Yes, it is important to me that I pass...Why? Because for one, I want to see if I can do it, and if I can, it makes me feel even more the part and feeling even more feminine. :)

[melissacd]

This topic always leaves me feeling a bit like an outsider. I don't plan on passing and I don't plan on blending in. My goal is to look the best I can and let others decide if they are going to make anything of it.

I worked at Macy's over the holidays at the fragrance and cosmetic counters. I met and talked with many customers, sold thousands of dollars worth of cosmetics and fragrances to hundreds of people. I did not care what people thought or worried about what they might say. You simply can't do that and remain happy. And believe me, I was very happy!

Simply be who you are and enjoy it, what is the alternative?

Tamara,

I really like your response. This is very much the way that I see things too. I do my best to look and be my best and go out into the world and just be myself. I am under no illusion that I look like anything other than who I am, however anyone wants to take that. I have fun with all of this and do my best to just learn about how to be me, to be completely comfortable with that.

Thanks for such a wonderful and illuminating point of view.

Melissa Paige

[StarrOfDelite]

I would personally prefer to be seen as Androgynous and Beautiful. I don't care if people think I am a pretty man or a handsome woman, so long as I make a visual impact.

Did I say that I am a Narcissist?

[Princess Chantal]

[QUOTE=msginaadoll;2016292]I think passing can mean you are not harrassed or that are accepted in the environment you are in. [QUOTE]

Being respected sums that up better than "passing", in my opinion.

[Jocelyn Quivers]

I know I will never pass (cursed shoulders and arms), and even though I know it is a goal I most likely will not achieve in this lifetime. That still does not mean I don't put forth my best effort every single time I do dress to try and look as feminine as possible. (Minus the shoulders and arms of course).

Why do I want to achieve this impossible goal? It makes me feel happy and good about myself.

[Deidra Cowen]

Passing means you can take this CDing to the next level. Going out in society and interacting with people as a female. Frankly lets cut to the chase and admit there is a stigma to being a CD. Why else are 90 something percent of us in the closet. If passable you can move past that stigma.

That being said I never passed, at my peak in looks and all that good stuff I was very blendable, but did not hold up to a very long inspection. Had fun as heck with that. But at the right places, venues it can be quite entertaining and pleasing to just be a CD or Tgirl and go with the flow.

If really feeling confident and having some dare devil urges it can be quite the thrill just going with the wild Tgirl act at straight bars, starbucks, stores, etc. Especially in a liberal city like Atlanta. But be ready for negative reactions too along with seeing people get big smiles on their faces and evidently getting a kick out of ya. But if I could pass I'd go for it in a second and drop the wild tranny act. :tongueout

[Rogina B]

Do your best presentation,have a thick skin,and ENJOY YOUSELF.Most of us will never pass a close inspection as Deidre said.I find mainstream places fine for me ,even here in the "Bible belt". Steer clear of danger and enjoy being out there..it is your right!:2c:

[kellycan27]

I suppose it might depend on whether one can do it.

[Barbara Dugan]

Honestly I dont think I can pass.. I wish I could

[MimiLee]

To me, trying to pass is important, its a big part of trying to look and feel like a girl, whether I succeed or not is different story. I find it to be a challenge, and I luv making that effort to look and feel the part. Its all part of the experience.

[boy2girl31]

I have to agree w/ alot of ppl here who said that it depends on the person. I personally feel that I am much more female than male (though my gender does not agree) as such I want to look as much like a woman as I feel. I also would like to be treated as such and until I can be passable I do not feel I will be treated like the girl I want to be.

[Violetgray]

I think I made this point in an earlier thread, but for me, I want to achieve a certain level of beauty, and passing is just the by-product.

It's kinda like when an Olympic weightlifter trains for strength. It's not the huge muscles that he's after, so much as the ability to lift heavy objects that comes with them.

[Loni]

passing????big question, very small word.

many many ways to answer this, it all is pending what one wants/needs out of life.

do we pass in our givein life? all the time we have a mask on doing a bit defferntly for each place we go, people we know.

i only want to be "passed by", i know i will be "read",:doh: i only want to blend in and be accepted as who i am. :daydreaming:. not what others expect me to be.:eek:

:2c:

.

[vetobob9]

People have all kinds of reasons for wanting to pass. I for one would like the outside of my body to match the inside. Haveing said this, I really feel that this whole thing is very simmilar to bodybuilding. A bodybuilder has an ideal body that he/she is trying to achieve, then commits 100% of their energy to create that look. Is that not what some of us are doing here? I mean really, it is a lifestyle. You can choose to be a bodybuilder, a pro-sports player, a high end lawer, whatever. If you want to reach the top tier in whatever it is you are trying to do, YOU HAVE TO BUY THE RANCH! I want to look and feel female, not just feel like one. Therfore, PASSING is the only way I will feel complete.
Nikki

This reminds me of an interesting point. You speak of bodybuilders who work to build up their strength so they can pick up heavier objects. Anthropologists did a study and found that today's best weight lifters could not even compete with the average Roman, let alone the average "cave man". The Romans marched 10 miles a day wearing heavy armor and carrying a load of supplies on their backs. Today's soldiers don't wear armor and their equipment weighs much less than it did even a century ago. And even with that heavy load, they could still outrun one of today's distance runners.
The male body has literally shrank over the last thousand years and it has been shrinking for a couple of thousand years. But as the body shrank, our brains got bigger and our intelligence has increased. Most of the energy we consume today, goes to our brains. This enables us to do things like send people to the moon and then safely bring them home to earth.
Men are and have been becoming more and more feminized. Geneticists have also noticed this in their studies of the human genome. Today's male generation is more feminine that generation before it and way more feminine than their ancestors.
We can easily outsmart the Romans because we do have better brains but if it ever came to brawn vs brawn (leave out our intelligence designed technology) the Romans would whoop America's rear.
I'm sure the Ancient Egyptians probably would have also.
And I think the laws of attraction are evolving along with this change. A hundred years ago, or even 50 years ago, a genetic female would have preferred a 7ft tall man with massive muscles capable of lifting a car with one hand. But there are none of those today so women have evolved to be attracted to the men who are fun, understanding, and who are smart enough to be able to put food on the table. In today's society it is not strength which feeds and houses you, it is your intellect and your approach to dealing with other people that gives you the evolutionary advantage. Therefore, evolution is currently selecting for more femenine males.

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

Passing means you can take this CDing to the next level. Going out in society and interacting with people as a female. Frankly lets cut to the chase and admit there is a stigma to being a CD. Why else are 90 something percent of us in the closet. If passable you can move past that stigma.


I guess this sentiment here is actually one of the things I don't like about the insistence on being passable. I feel like, yes, there is a stigma against CDing, but the way to fight it is to just get out there and proudly be a crossdresser. If even half that closeted majority didn't think they had to stay in because they aren't passable, and decided instead to just make themselves look their best and not worry about if that also means look 100% female, then imagine how much more public exposure to crossdressing there would be.

[Tomara]

I guess this sentiment here is actually one of the things I don't like about the insistence on being passable. I feel like, yes, there is a stigma against CDing, but the way to fight it is to just get out there and proudly be a crossdresser. If even half that closeted majority didn't think they had to stay in because they aren't passable, and decided instead to just make themselves look their best and not worry about if that also means look 100% female, then imagine how much more public exposure to crossdressing there would be.

Well said Ryan , Thank You !
I don't pass , and don't even want to try , I am happy to be myself and am not trying to live up to someone else's standards.
Tomara

[wanda jackson]

The only passing I really care about (read: CAN"T PASS) is passing the personal tests and goals that I set for myself.
When I was in high school I read a biograpy of Jean Cocteau. In it, he said he wished he could change his sex as easily as he changed his shirt. That always stuck in my memory regarding my CDing. If I could do that, then passing wouldn't be an issue.
Otherwise, I would look like a man dressed as an attractive woman...striking, but never 100% convincing.

[Ruth]

No-one can be totally objective about this question. We all have a personal position from which we view it, and part of that position is how well we can mimic a feminine appearance with clothing, make-up and other aids. Another part of that position is our personal target for our crossdressing activity.
Personally, I am able to pass as female and it is part of my CDing activity to go out in public and mingle, masquerading as a woman. So yes, passing is important.
But for someone else with different physical appearance and/or different aims, it might not be.
We're all doing this for our own reasons and generalisations are often futile.

[Crysten]

This reminds me of an interesting point. You speak of bodybuilders who work to build up their strength so they can pick up heavier objects. Anthropologists did a study and found that today's best weight lifters could not even compete with the average Roman, let alone the average "cave man". The Romans marched 10 miles a day wearing heavy armor and carrying a load of supplies on their backs. Today's soldiers don't wear armor and their equipment weighs much less than it did even a century ago. And even with that heavy load, they could still outrun one of today's distance runners.
The male body has literally shrank over the last thousand years and it has been shrinking for a couple of thousand years. But as the body shrank, our brains got bigger and our intelligence has increased. Most of the energy we consume today, goes to our brains. This enables us to do things like send people to the moon and then safely bring them home to earth.
Men are and have been becoming more and more feminized. Geneticists have also noticed this in their studies of the human genome. Today's male generation is more feminine that generation before it and way more feminine than their ancestors.
We can easily outsmart the Romans because we do have better brains but if it ever came to brawn vs brawn (leave out our intelligence designed technology) the Romans would whoop America's rear.
I'm sure the Ancient Egyptians probably would have also.
And I think the laws of attraction are evolving along with this change. A hundred years ago, or even 50 years ago, a genetic female would have preferred a 7ft tall man with massive muscles capable of lifting a car with one hand. But there are none of those today so women have evolved to be attracted to the men who are fun, understanding, and who are smart enough to be able to put food on the table. In today's society it is not strength which feeds and houses you, it is your intellect and your approach to dealing with other people that gives you the evolutionary advantage. Therefore, evolution is currently selecting for more femenine males.

The bean counters have figured out that the army of Alexander the Great marched approximately 56,000 miles ON FOOT while carying all their armor and gear.

The Theory of Evolution talkes extensively about "selective breeding". Just about the only time we, as humans, experience this is during war. Seems as though, over centuries, the more "male" characteristics have been "selectively" bred out of the human race, mainly because most of the highly masculince men have shot/stabbed/blown up during wartime.

Passing? I'm shaped like a concrete block, and sound like a drill instructor. Not gonna pass any time soon. Would love to, just not in the cards for me. At least, not without years and years of hormones and surgery. My goal (if I even have one) is to incorporate my dressing into my life without it being overly obvious that I"m doing so. The only other option I have is to be the guy in the dress in the gay bar. I've thought about this, but with the family thing going on, isn't really an option at the moment.

[Nicole Bishop]

If I am going to continue to go out in public with my gg friends I have to pass they are my coaches and so far it has been working and they are blown away . Half the fun is doing something we are not suppose to do by social standards and getting away with it . There is truly nothing funnier than going into the womens restroom in a high class restaurant or country club and not be given a second look. So for me if I didnt think I could over a little bit of time and training pull this act off totally I would sent all my stuff to the goodwill the next day as it isnt that important to me . This is just me though

my A,D.D

screws with my O.C.D

And gives me E.D :D

Nicole

[kimdl93]

As many posters have indicated, the importance of passing is up to the individual. I would LOVE to be able to pass. But, unfortunately, nature just hasn't given me that option.

That, however, does not mean that I can't enjoy spending much of my life as a woman, at home and with my wife. Passing for me is a fantasy, but dressing is a reality.

[t-girlxsophie]

I think it depends on the Individual concerned,when i first stepped out i was saddened to see that i didnt pass,but I soon realised i was being selfish,as i am leading the life UI have always wanted,which puts me in an incredible place.
so now i dont worry about "passing" just make sure I make the right decisions.where to go,where to avoid etc.Remember above all the haters are the ones with the problem