is it me?? or just the group i hang with...

[nikkijo]

but it seems there are 3 or 4 set demographics of us cross dressers.....
not trying to offend, just what i see from my own eyes and in my area..


1: the closet Panty wearer...

simply dresses to get off for fetish reasons...



2: the standard cross dresser, might be out, but even if not public, people know and he is afraid to admit it, even if he doesn't dress publicly....

this group is most annoying... they criticize the public display of their hobby and will openly call people "fags", or other derogatory names due to insecurity, but reality is they are insecure in their being, MOST LIKELY gay and everything they are criticizing they do them selves.
(often found near gay bars, hitting on the muscle boys)

3: those that see them selves as a separate person while dressed regardless of how or to what extent the dress, (what i call self made men/women )

this group is the more "normal" of any and generally are more open to explain their story

4: the Big beautiful Transvestites : these are the flamboyant openly gay men who dress for the sole reason of seduction...


and the more i look at the world this way i see that i can look at the gist of any given post that is posted, or talk to any given person who is remotely involved at any capacity within this community as a whole spectrum and they fit one of these 4.....

maybe its just my location... or the places i hang out or dont know...


but i can count on 1 hand the ammount of people that fit group number 3.... so far the number is a whopping 3

to be a member of demographic number 3 you must be a "self made woman" or "self made man"

openly and confidently NOT attracted to the same sex as your current physical gender, NOT dressed for sexual pleasure reasons, or for seeking sex from any person regardless of physical sex.

you fit into your role as the female/male you are portraying yourself as..

regardless of just HOW well you pass, or not, how much your body has transformed via hormones or other ways to alter appearence, you still are true to yourself as a person and while you may live as a passable male or female, you dont forget who you are or want to totally eliminate who you are from the alternate personality...


notice TRANS SEXUAL or TRANS GENDER aren't included because those are provable medical conditions and automatically disqualify this above list.




everyt time i see a dumb thread, like what color panties are you wearing i want to hurl... because i know some group 1 or 2 person is reading this, while getting off and did it knowing he was looking at my avatar as he read my post, so while he may claim to be "straight" he basically just proved he really isnt and is in the closet with his sexuality as well... to me its just CREEPY!!!

the people of group 2 are generally found as the a$$holes who cause trouble with others who may publicly dress... case in point, at my Halloween party i was alice in wonderland, as shown by my avatar, the heckler in question caused a scene by calling me a FAQING FAG and also saying so was the DJ ( who is does female impersonations and was a caricature from Mulan Rouge that night.. ) needless to say he got tossed out, but his party came in, apologized and then promptly said the heckler in question was a known sissy panty boy who was currently dating the body builder in the party and was openly gay.

i know 3 transvestites and they all fit the bill perfectly and i feel no need to explain their persona's... rupaul has nothing on these gurls...


sorry for the rant... just frustrated that all i see lately is the crap on the low end of the spectrum...


as for the 3 people i see in group 3


De-aan Keller
Chris Crocker yes the internet celeb.
Andrea West..

hes a bit spacey and some days hes a touch beyond into realm 4 as he is openly bi.. but if ya knew Andi its not unusual for him to show off...



there are a few people on this site that may fit group 3... but dont know enough about them to judge... so i wont mention any known members here one way or another....


so now that ive either ran off, offended, or lost every member of the site due to this post, what are your thoughts......

[skirtsuit]

I would add two more groups:

5: Those who insist on pigeon-holeing (sp?!) others.

6: None of the above.

I am firmly a #6, don't fit into any of your derogatory groups.

All the Best,

Ann / SS

[nikkijo]

I would add two more groups:

5: Those who insist on pigeon-holeing (sp?!) others.

6: None of the above.

I am firmly a #6, don't fit into any of your derogatory groups.

All the Best,

Ann / SS


yep as the end of my message said... offended, lost , or ran off... guess i was right on atleast part..

[skirtsuit]

Yes, I've always found that the best way to start a conversation is by insulting everybody!

All the Best,

Ann / SS

[Jennifer_Ph]

I would add two more groups:

5: Those who insist on pigeon-holeing (sp?!) others.

6: None of the above.

I am firmly a #6, don't fit into any of your derogatory groups.

All the Best,

Ann / SS

I agree completely. By the way, what color panties are you wearing? :devil:

[Samantha_Smile]

Whether we like it or not, pidgeon holing goes on.
It is fairly easy to categorise behavioural patterns though.

Im not for pidgeon holing, dont get me wrong, but I can see where nikkijo is coming from.
Which I think is the saddest part.

[Violetgray]

I understand that you were frustrated at the time that you wrote this, but i'm guessing the response has been negative thus far because the whole spectrum you offered couldn't even begin to cover the many types of cd there are.


Also, this list seems to be tinged with that frustration, and seems more like lashing out than an honest attempt to classify. I'm willing to bet that most of the girls here can't identify with any of those categories as you've described them.

[DAVIDA]

Just my opinion, but one doesn't make one feel better by making others feel bad!

If you want to know how many "catagories" we can fall under, just look at the membership number of this forum. Every one of us are in our own catagory, and to put it frankly, we don't need anyone else telling us which one we are in!

[Dee2U]

I think that the one great strength of this forum is its willingness to accept the differences in each other, particularly those whose CDing is very sexual / erotic vs those for whom it is not. Not to mention the transmen / transwomen sections. Becausee we are in the minority we benefit from being accepting of others, sort of a pay it forward....Dee

[April Renee]

This site, as far as I know was never intended to view each other as segregated by what we feel comfortable with. If what you find here in OUR safe place isn't what you agree with then keep looking it a wide open web. How dare you try and lump members here into YOUR categories. Seems like you might be trying to fit a few square pegs into round holes. And how vain of you to think some man is getting his rocks off over your avitar...Really?? An avitar??
.
April

[Super Amanda]

You need to remember that everyone,EVERYONE, is in a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SITUATION!

Some people can only get a small taste of what their feeling, due to family, jobs, etc.

I'm transitioning, plan on being full time by next year, and I know you exclude TS in your post but, for a LONG time I identified as CD, and being married and in the closet, I was limited on how deep I could look at myself, if that makes sense. In those days ( a whopping 6 years ago,lol ) I lashed out in a very similar way to how you have here. I bashed the pantyhose lovers, and the "what color nail polish are you wearing?" threads, the under-dressers....you name it, I bashed it. I could not understand these people, and it angered me to be classified in the same group as them. I also harbored a lot of self hatred at that time...

After being put in my place by the forum members, and lots of inflection, I realized that I was putting my self hated and anger on others, and I asked myself why was I so different from the "text book" crossdresser (which turns out, does not exist!) and I found, over time, that I was TS.

Anyway, I don't know if what I have said matters or makes sense, but it does to me! ;)

[sometimes_miss]

is it me?? or just the group i hang with...
but it seems there are 3 or 4 set demographics of us cross dressers....
Just another case of someone with too much time on their hands to think about it. Don't feel bad, though. Most psychologists fall into this category too, and also fall into the groups of folks that feel the need to categorize everything. Sure, there are men that fall into the categories you created. But as you go along, you'll also meet so many others that you'll have to keep creating new categories. Eventually, you'll discover that you have too many categories and have to describe each one of us just a little bit differently.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Nikkjo

I'll take a shot and answer your question directly.

Here are my thoughts...there is a particular group of t-folks that are quite ashamed of what they do, especially as it relates to their sexuality.
these people quite often lash out at the very folks they shuold be reaching out for support, the very folks that are just like them...

These type of people often deride others...ts folks saying "just a crossdresser", crossdressers saying "im not gay" or "i'm not a fetishist"..

its wrong, its hurtful and its not helpful to people and it just exposes them as transphobic and homophobic people..

btw....
i have on pastel blue panties
ironically i like the "boy shorts" style because they look best on my hips

[PortiaHoney]

I read your definitions and I have to agree that some people fall into one or more of your categories.

However, to say that everyone falls into one of the catgories that you have set is a bit rich by any stretch of the imagination. My question to you is - where do you put yourself? If you don't fall into any one of your self imposed categories then why should anyone else?

Am I now exempted from your categorisation because I am now by definition transgender? I used to be a closet crossdresser so that would have put me into category 2 BUT and it is a HUGE BUT, I NEVER abused or teased or made fun of ANYONE who was braver than I was. Does my now being exempted forever exclude me from my past concealment?

I was going to say I feel sorry for you because you must have been hurt at some stage, but I won't. You know the reasons for your post and quite frankly it's none of my business. And I don't think it's fair to start slanging off at others who post replies. You knew before you posted that you would be causing offense to a lot of people which is why you apologised even before you started.

And believe me, it would take more than your trite observations to run anyone off from this site. Must be the people you hang out with. Or it could just be you?

Darn it - I just replied to another dumb thread...........

And my panties are black today - just like my mood........

[Tracey Corset]

Yes, I've always found that the best way to start a conversation is by insulting everybody!

All the Best,

Ann / SS
Well i certainly feel like i've been told off and i don't know why !!!!

[Mirani]

Stereotyping = what a wonderful foundation for prejudice.

How nice that you feel comfortable enough not to care whether you offend anyone.

Actually, I am not offended as I see your post for what it is. An ignorant rant. Of course, that is only my opinion.

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

I think you should re-read your post after 24 hours and then you will see why people find it insulting and offensive. Essentially what you said was, there are four groups of crossdressers, 3 of which are either perverts, or obnoxious, and there's one group that is "normal" but nobody except three people fit into this category. So follow that to it's logical conclusion, you just called everyone on this forum possibly perverted or obnoxious.

Maybe you don't see it that way, but that is definitely how it came across.

I do think there are a few categories that crossdressers fall into, but then within those categories everyone has such beautiful and subtle nuances that make them who they are and take them on their own journey. But I definitely don't think that your categories are anything but ugly comments about people you don't like.

[nikkijo]

I think you should re-read your post after 24 hours and then you will see why people find it insulting and offensive. Essentially what you said was, there are four groups of crossdressers, 3 of which are either perverts, or obnoxious, and there's one group that is "normal" but nobody except three people fit into this category. So follow that to it's logical conclusion, you just called everyone on this forum possibly perverted or obnoxious.

Maybe you don't see it that way, but that is definitely how it came across.

I do think there are a few categories that crossdressers fall into, but then within those categories everyone has such beautiful and subtle nuances that make them who they are and take them on their own journey. But I definitely don't think that your categories are anything but ugly comments about people you don't like.



not quite ...

1 group is annoying, 1 group is possibly perverted, 1 group is different yet oddly odd, and the final is by definition flamboyant, which at times is a bit to far from reality for the sake of "passing" and while i knew this post was going to offend some, others wouldnt read it through to the end, and finally there inevitably would be some who wouldnt understand its full intent, and it seems that there are alot that didnt quite understand the full intent, while it was a rant, it was to serve 2 purposes, and it seems to have... create active discussion of real subject matter versus petty crap that nobody really cares about.. AND clarify that my annoyances experianced while out and about was isolated yet thankfully to the members here not a true demographic of everyone within the comunity.... and while i do honeestly take offence at the "what color are our clothes" threads, becasue truly, if we are trying to be femme its very unlady like... and could be akin to locker room sword fighting...
and while my views are skewed due to the experiances i have, i knew this would offend some for various reasons, ranging from denial, to hate, to who knows why they are offended but they just are... thus i appologized even before i wrote it...

while i do agree the 4 catagories i listed is a form of pogeon holing and sterio typing, sadly of the people ive met In real life who also cross dress in various forms, while people may not like it, it seems to cover my experiances over the past 15 years of dressing.

and while in itself there is nothing wrong with each groups variation of dressing makes them happy, just as how i percieve myself as nikkijo makes me happy. which by the way is a little bit of group 3, ocational group 4.. (ill admit i have my moments of over flamboyant behavior... ) and in the past a touch of group 1.. and now by default adding in group 4 brings into question my sexual preference.... and while i claim straight, am married and have never been mono e mono with a guy, the arrow isnt QUITE as straight as other people i know..... so as i said, alot of this may just be me.. my experiance, or both...

[nikkijo]

How nice that you feel comfortable enough not to care whether you offend anyone.




isnt that the whole point of this forum... to be comfortable.....

[Mirani]

not quite ...

.... and while i do honeestly take offence at the "what color are our clothes" ...

Why take offence? Do what I do, DON'T READ THE THREADS in which you have no interest.

If a thread serves a purpose to those who contribute, then it works. That is why a site such as this exists - to allow members to say things here where there is no other outlet, share views, interests and activities. Also, of course for non-members to read to either feel that they may belong or just to find out more.

Nikkijo, you show here one of the behaviours I find disappointing and responsible for a lot of negativity we "transgenderists" suffer. Prejudice and intolerance.
Somehow, coming from within makes it even more disappointing :(

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

First of all, I read your entire post twice. You clearly didn't read all of mine because the first thing I said was take 24 hours. You didn't, you responded immediately. Yes "what color panties" threads are annoying and, I agree, useless. However a quick peek at the current new threads in this forum yielded not a single panty color post. There's a thread about SA's and how they treat us, there's a thread about how crossdressing effects our lives, there's a thread about what feminine means to us.

Your "apology" is the equivalent of someone saying "I'm not racist, but...(insert horrible racist comment)"

I'm serious, read your post again tomorrow when you've got some distance from it.

[Stephanie Miller]

Group #1 = Annoying
Group#2= Perverted
Group#3=Odd
Group#4=Far from reality
Yep, I would defiantly have to say it must be the group you run around with, because non of the CD's I know fit into these. By the way, which of the 4 do you fit?
Almost all I know have their heads screwed on straight.
Have you checked the possibility there may be anger issues in you thread?

[Lorileah]

Wow. My mind cannot process this this early in the morning.

I knew I wasn't a category 1 from the start. OK maybe when I was 13 but back then the thought of looking up the girls skirts to see panties thrilled me.

Am I a 2? Well I am annoying, I am an "A$$hole" and I am "out" dressed. I am not gay...not straight either and I really dislike muscle boys, but I do go to gay bars in both CD and male mode. Maybe I am a 2.6

Since 3 is so exclusive I must not fit there (and I still elicit sex from others...no matter how I am dressed). But I don't dress specifically for sex. It is a nice perk.

Category 4 see above ( I am not gay in my best Larry Craig voice).

Every one of the categories have huge holes in them. They reinforce your bias that crossdressing in any form MUST be sexual. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar Sigmund. You have described the smallest section of the TG world with your conditions and requirements.

Which brings me to your definition. It is commonly held at least in this forum that "transgender" covers a broad spectrum of people from you secret pantie wearer to post op Transsexual. And provable? What test is that? Many transsexuals wrestle with the idea for years. If it has a "proof" somewhere that would help them reconcile I would like to know what that is. Especially when you have a spectrum of TS's from those who never do anything about it to those who get total surgery.

One of the major hurdles that transgender people face in the world is that this IS a sexual fetish or linked somehow to a sexual desire. This is one myth we need to debunk. That and your myth of the sexual transvestite predator.

Maybe your post was meant to categorize the sexual fetishists but you used a howitzer to kill a mosquito.

Oh, and you seem pretty narcissistic to think that your avatar would lead to someone "pleasuring" themselves
:brolleyes:. That can be easily fixed though if it makes you ill...take it off the site.

p.s. who are those people you listed? The only one I know is the Brittney Spears crybaby...did I miss where he was TG?

[Holly]

Is if just me, or is it the people I encounter?

It seems that the people I know who try and overly simplify categorizing members of this community fall into 3 or 4 categories:

1. The person who is in denial about there own gender feelings. This person is confused and hasn't a clue as to what is causing them to defy the so-call "norm" of society and wear clothing intended for the opposite gender from their birth sex. This person often feels lost and confused.

2. The person who begrudgingly wears clothing designed to be worn by the gender opposite from their birth sex and hates themselves for it. This person is desperate to stop doing this terrible thing but feels hopelessly trapped and unable to quit. In the meantime they try and appear to be "helpful" to the community by writing about things of which they have no knowledge.

3. The person who is trying to make them self feel better at the expense of others. This person finds great pleasure in saying, "Well, at least I'm not that!"

4. The person who knows what is best for everyone else. This person perceives them self as the one who is going to make everything "all better" for those struggling to find their identity.

Most people I have met fall into category 3... no, wait, 1... I mean 4...or is it 3.

Now in case it is not perfectly clear, the above is satire. People should stop trying to categorize others and figure out who they are themselves. There would be a lot fewer pointless conversations if that could ever happen.

[nikkijo]

Wow. My mind cannot process this this early in the morning.

I knew I wasn't a category 1 from the start. OK maybe when I was 13 but back then the thought of looking up the girls skirts to see panties thrilled me.

Am I a 2? Well I am annoying, I am an "A$$hole" and I am "out" dressed. I am not gay...not straight either and I really dislike muscle boys, but I do go to gay bars in both CD and male mode. Maybe I am a 2.6

Since 3 is so exclusive I must not fit there (and I still elicit sex from others...no matter how I am dressed). But I don't dress specifically for sex. It is a nice perk.

Category 4 see above ( I am not gay in my best Larry Craig voice).

Every one of the categories have huge holes in them. They reinforce your bias that crossdressing in any form MUST be sexual. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar Sigmund. You have described the smallest section of the TG world with your conditions and requirements.

Which brings me to your definition. It is commonly held at least in this forum that "transgender" covers a broad spectrum of people from you secret pantie wearer to post op Transsexual. And provable? What test is that? Many transsexuals wrestle with the idea for years. If it has a "proof" somewhere that would help them reconcile I would like to know what that is. Especially when you have a spectrum of TS's from those who never do anything about it to those who get total surgery.

One of the major hurdles that transgender people face in the world is that this IS a sexual fetish or linked somehow to a sexual desire. This is one myth we need to debunk. That and your myth of the sexual transvestite predator.

Maybe your post was meant to categorize the sexual fetishists but you used a howitzer to kill a mosquito.

Oh, and you seem pretty narcissistic to think that your avatar would lead to someone "pleasuring" themselves
:brolleyes:. That can be easily fixed though if it makes you ill...take it off the site.

p.s. who are those people you listed? The only one I know is the Brittney Spears crybaby...did I miss where he was TG?

i admit im a fat ugly guy in a dress.

[aggi123]

Nikkijo,

I'm confused why you can't grasp how you've offended us all. And the bottom of your post only clarifies that you were consciously doing! I can tell you that I don't fit into any of your categories, and I definitely don't consider myself a pervert. Odd, maybe. But, I don't fit the rest of that.

Why would you make such an insulting post? Which one of those categories do you fit into?

[nikkijo]

Nikkijo,

I'm confused why you can't grasp how you've offended us all. And the bottom of your post only clarifies that you were consciously doing! I can tell you that I don't fit into any of your categories, and I definitely don't consider myself a pervert. Odd, maybe. But, I don't fit the rest of that.

Why would you make such an insulting post? Which one of those categories do you fit into?


i answered that above.... may want to re read the whole thread.....


i do grasp that i offended a bunch of people, but those that are offended i wonder just how many truly understood the intent, this is my experiance and how ive been exposed to this part of my life, and if my personal experiances and how i experiance them is so wrong, why is it offensive if at some level the above wasnt true..

[ReineD]

2: the standard cross dresser, might be out, but even if not public, people know and he is afraid to admit it, even if he doesn't dress publicly....

this group is most annoying... they criticize the public display of their hobby and will openly call people "fags", or other derogatory names due to insecurity, but reality is they are insecure in their being, MOST LIKELY gay and everything they are criticizing they do them selves.
(often found near gay bars, hitting on the muscle boys)

By your own definition, you are a number Two. You've criticized a public display of some of the fetishists, and you've said that members here are perverted, vain, in denial, and most likely homosexual.

Therefore your thread cannot be taken seriously since by your own admission, most likely you are everything you are criticizing.

And now you are trolling. Thread is closed.