Something I have noticed

[JamieOH]

People here seem to be surprised when a GG doesnt react well to the news that their SO or other family member is a CD.. The common misconception is that most GG's are very approving.. While this is sort of true, It's a different world when it's in their own home, their on family... when it hits them personally, it's diffferent... That isnt the case for all women.. clearly.. there are many who are wonderfully supportive.. but that doesnt mean the ones who arent supportive arent wonderful.. it just means they can't embrace that part of you.. Should they be forced to understand it and accept it? well, it's too late, they are forced to... You are you... and by telling them, you have forced them into accepting this part. There is a big difference between accepting it, and supporting it... Do not expect them to support it.. expect the exact opposite.. expect her to run away screaming "MONSTER!!" and all the neighbors coming in with pitchforks and torchs.. Trust me, you'll be a lot less dissapointed when she calls you a freak, and tells you she dont want to hear about it anymore...

[sherri52]

Jamie you are right. This is the reason we should tell our SOs very early in the relationship. If it doesn't work out then you can start looking for another. If it does you'll be in heaven. Keep in mind she may also have something that you may have to deal with. Anything that should be said by either partner should come out before the commitment of marriage. After marriage the consequences could mean divorce, hatred, shame, and monetary costs for years to come. Tell them early

[bron]

Sadly that info is too late for me. I told my partner and she was forced to deal with it. The rules are now........don't EVER be dressed in front of me....don't EVER wear knickers when your with me. So now i have to deal with that. Some one slap me!!!!

[Tina L.]

very good point Jamie


Tina L.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Jamie

You are so right on this one the sooner the better.

Orchid

[KimberlyJo]

People here seem to be surprised when a GG doesnt react well to the news that their SO or other family member is a CD..

really, surprised? I don't think so. If they were surprised then why in the world would so many go to such lengths to keep it hidden for so long? And if they were truly surprised then why is the decision to come out sooo difficult for so many?

Hurt, disappointed, destroyed, crushed, despondent, depressed sure....but surprised...not likely.

[DiannaRose]

In my case, I did tell her early on in our relationship, but at the time I was confused and scared by it, so how could I expect otherwise of her? She reacted badly, I chose to try to ignore my desires and feelings so as not to cause her pain. Over the years I'd want to broach the subject again (because as you know, the feelings don't go away), only to be met with more tears and fear.

So I allowed myself to be trapped by her feelings. Unfortunately, buried feelings have a way of exploding out at the least opportune moments. So yes, now I'm a monster, even though she used to be supportive of TG people. Because it's me--her rock, her stability.

So I'm living with the consequences of choices I made that I wish I could un-make. Nobody can predict the consequences of their choices, and these consequences I can't handle. But what choice do I have? It kills me knowing I hurt her. It kills me more knowing she refuses to accept this of me (she used to be supportive of TG/CDs, remember?)

To be fair, she announced some changes in herself to me just before I came out to her...and these changes I've been able to accept. So my question is why can't she accept? I know some of the answer...it has to do with her past and how every major change in her life led to the worst possibly scenarios. I get to bear the brunt of that, too.

REAL slow progress...and often backward progress. <sigh> I think it would help if I had someone I could talk to face-to-face about it, but one-on-one sessions with our LGBT-trained marriage counselor are rare, and no one else knows about me. I thank God every day for my on-line sisters!

Those of you who have someone they can talk to, whether your spouse, or a friend, or a local CD/TG group, appreciate them. Love them. TELL them so every chance you get, because you may not realize how blessed you are to have them. :)

Okay, depression off. Who wants to go shopping? :D

[sempervirens]

I agree that what's okay in the abstract, say supporting LGBT legislation or positive media portrayals, isn't always okay when it's right in your life, say having a gay son or TG spouse. Really you never know how your spouse/friends/family with react, IMO.

You can't expect acceptance, but you should to be treated with respect. Name calling, repeatedly bringing it up in unrelated arguments, dragging you to counseling to "fix" you, is all uncalled for. No one should be treated disrespectfully in their own marriage; both sides need to play nice and be open to the legitimacy of the others feelings, however difficult.

3) I agree with coming out sooner. For most of us it's just a lesson for a next time that may never happen (since we stay married, or whatev). She doesn't have to be okay with the dressing, and that's better to know sooner than later.

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

I guess I'm not ok with the idea of settling for someone who doesn't accept me for who I am. I'd rather be disappointed in someone than expect them to think I'm a freak.

I'm currently dating someone and she's been really cool and open to my crossdressing. It has a shelf-life on it because I'm moving cross-country soon and I have no interest in pursuing a long distance relationship. But it's been a fun fling, and it has been the first relationship I've entered into since coming out, which has been nice because even though I'm sure it may be a struggle for future girls to get used to or it may cost me the chance at someone down the line, it has shown me that there are girls out there who will be ok with it and see me for the full man I am and not be hung up on my clothing.

[Karren H]

Personally I am not shocked or amazed when a woman rejects our crossdressing. In my case she didn't sign up for this and I wouldn't have blamed her if she took the kids and moved out.. Not her fault.. Not one bit. Mine and mine alone.

[Kerigirl2009]

Although fault is not entirely on us, it was given to us for some reason unknown. And it is ours to deal with even more so than our SO. We are the ones that have to figure out first that we are still people with feelings too. And our natural instinct is to protect the ones that we love from being hurt by anything or anyone, including ourselves.
Sometimes I think we don't trust ourselves enough and for that we end up hurting our families.
I think the reason we feel better about ourselves here is because of the support that we receive from eachother. I think for the most part the majority of us here who are married and may have children truly love with all are hearts and are terribly afraid that because of the reactions from others that we come in contact with could end up hurting our families.
I don't know where I am going with this I just know I love my family and I also have a need to express myself. I have to find a balance somehow.

[DiannaRose]

Keri, I think you hit every nail squarely on its little round head. :)

We want to keep our families safe, and if something bothers them we want to make sure they don't have to deal with it. It's what we do.

I ended up hurting my wife because I lied to her about this for 25 years, but I lied because I knew the truth would cause her pain. In my case, the only way to prevent that pain would have been for me to keep hiding and burying half of myself for the rest of my life...but burying pain doesn't work forever.

So balance does seem to be the key phrase here. And like you say, Keri, there's no answer on how to achieve that balance. :)

[Katesback]

One of the interesting things that happens (and we just had some other post discussions about this) is that even with some significant others that are accepting at onset of having the ball dropped on them they then later change and sometimes leave the reationship.

I have talked to a lot of CDs that have expressed this sort of shock that thier accepting wife after a period of time all of a sudden calls it quits. What usually happens is a series of events that lead up to the demise. I shall illustrate just ONE senerio. NOTE THIS IS NOT PERSON SPECIFIC BUT IT IS A COMMON STORY TOLD MANY A TIME:

Wife gets the news:

CD now has this huge weight lifted off his/her shoulders. Because the wife probably has no idea what this all entails she is going to give a shot at maintaining her relationship.

What wife does not realize is that hubby after 40 years of hiding now feels liberated and wants to express himself in a whole new way!

The next step is a series of conversations where hubby expresses himself and his CD adventures with wife. While all this excitment is being expressed the wife REALLY has no real way to relate to the excitment and often this just makes her feel even more distant (note now you see where the don't ask don't tell relationships come from).

While these discussions are talking place the wife now starts to find that the closets are filling up. Lots of money is being spent in a way she sees compulsive to the point of insanity. Soon she finds a female wardrobe five times bigger than her own wardrobe. She now is even more distant because she is wondering where on earth her husband has gone.

Perhaps at this point the dressing gets a bit borring in the house and hubby wants to venture out into the world (but is scarred). Guess who gets asked to go shopping. Now wife is once again asked to do something that she NEVER would have imagined she was going to be doing when she said the "I do" 20 years prior.

Keep in mind that many other things have been escalading at the same time that these others are being depected in the scenario.

Now it has been months and the wife while completely trying all she can to make this all work has come to realize that in reality she is not married to a CD but really she married a TS (remember most TS people never even begin transition). Now all of a sudden she is faced with the fact that she really married a woman. What does she do now??? Is this really what she signed up for??

This is just one scenario that often takes place in a marriage and what often ends in divorce. Because there are a few of you out there that think that I am down on CDs I will be clear here and explain that if you wrote the scenerio about a marriage where there is a TS girl that is destined for transition it would take five pages and include ten times more mental anguish and messed up stuff.

I love working with CDs because they exhibit far less mental issues than the rest of the trans community.

[sherri]

I've never had any sense that the majority of women are supportive of crossdressing, not when it hits close to home. Quite the contrary, actually. But I am moved and encouraged by the general sense of maturity, compassion and balance with which this forum's members have come to regard their SOs' dilemma. It's so refreshing compared to the self-absorbed sense of entitlement that you encounter occasionally, and it gives me hope that compassion will beget compassion eventually. :hugs:

[JulieC]

Personally I am not shocked or amazed when a woman rejects our crossdressing. In my case she didn't sign up for this and I wouldn't have blamed her if she took the kids and moved out.. Not her fault.. Not one bit. Mine and mine alone.

Rather than the OP, I'm going to take this post for my response. Karren, please forgive me for doing so :) I'm not targetting you in any respect, but the abstract concept of rejection of crossdressing.

People here are right. Women who didn't know their husbands are crossdressers before marriage didn't sign up for a husband who crossdresses. They're forced to accept it, or leave. Some choice! There's plenty of women who feel very despondent about this choice. Suddenly their image of who their husband is becomes shattered, replaced with the image of a man who isn't manly, but instead girly. That's not what they married. That's not what they signed up for. That's not what they wanted. They were deceived! Lied to! Cheated of their dream!

And you know what? It's BS. Not that unsuspecting wives are thankless witches who don't know a good thing when they see it. I'm not suggesting any woman is out of her mind for feeling that way. Far from it. I'm suggesting there's a much, much better and healthier way of looking at it.

A crossdressing man marries a woman. Did the woman marry an image, or a man? Did she marry a fantasy or a reality? Whether she knew about it or not, the man she married was a crossdresser. The man she fell in love with was a crossdresser. The crossdresser isn't some readily dividable being who can separate all that is their TGness into a convenient little pile that can be ignored while the wife rejoices in the manly-man husband. It's all one package.

A crossdressing man marries a woman. Did the woman marry someone unchanging, never evolving, always the same? Did they marry a fantasy of the perfect gentleman, always dashing, always earnest, always thoughtful, kind, considerate, passionate? Or did they marry the reality? A person who will occasionally be grumpy, tired, sad, depressed, careless, thoughtless? People change over time. It's a given. You can't marry someone now, and expect that 30 years from now that person will be the same as they are now. If that is your expectation, welcome to your future divorce.

I don't forgive the stupidity of the man who knows he is a crossdresser, yet refuses to divulge this information to his bride to be. Yet, it's a two way street. Crossdressers are burdened with a sense of self that is demonized by society. We try to bury it, obscure it, force it out of the light of day, to prevent it from us having a "normal" life. All spouses, regardless of the situation, have incumbent on their status as a spouse a requirement to try to be understanding, to try to progress with their spouse, not forced to progress because of their spouse. When a spouse discovers a CDing husband, it is an opportunity; you can show how shallow and superficial your vows were, or make an attempt to understand, to reach the depths of communication, and take the walk together. Or, you can choose to get angry and despise the 'thing' that replaced your fantasy of a husband.

A crossdressing man marries a woman. 15 years later, she no longer wears dress, skirts, heels, etc. much. She's often tired, worn out from the chores of being a mother to three, a wife to one, and all things to all people in her family. She rarely dresses up anymore, and her sex drive isn't what it was when she was 25. She's changed. Should the husband demonize her because she's become something other than the fantasy that he married? She was so beautiful on the wedding day, and the honeymoon was amazing, every day filled with laughter and good times, and every night filled with passionate love making. Now, the passion barely simmers, and 99% of the day is taken up with the drudgery of trying to be a decent family. "Time for divorce!" the husband says, "The passion is gone, and you're not feminine anymore! We have sex maybe once a month or so! Time for a woman with real energy, real passion, real femininity!!!" and how many of us would think such a man a despicable, characterless cretin?

There's a little passage in most marital vows that says "for better, for worse". It doesn't mean you put up with abuse. It doesn't mean you put up with a cheater. It doesn't mean you put up with addictive behaviors that the spouse refuses to seek counseling for and allows to destroy your family. It does mean that people change, and you'd better figure out how to adapt to that change, and recognize when a change is bad for you and the family and how to work with your partner to ameliorate the negatives of the change as much as possible. If you can't do that, what are you going to do when your husband has erectile dysfunction? Leukemia? Becomes paralyzed from an accident like Christopher Reeve? Are you going to walk away from your husband when change comes? Change WILL happen.

No, I don't expect my wife to go skipping off into the sunset saying "Weeeee! My husband likes wearing pantyhose, heels and dresses! Oh joy, what wonderful day! What wonderful dream this is!" No woman grows up dreaming of their knight in shining wedding dress.

I do expect my wife and myself to work together when change comes. We adapt, we communicate, we love, we grow, we prosper. We laugh with the good, cry with the bad, and hug each other more. That is a reasonable expectation.

It took me time to mature, time to accept myself as a crossdresser and understand this was something inseparable from who I am. Once that realization set in, once I understood I could not live a lie, I was mature enough to reject any woman that would not be the spouse I describe above. From that point on, every woman I dated knew about my crossdressing. If they ran for the hills, they weren't worth the time of day. If they accepted it with aplomb, on we went.

My wife knew within a few months of our beginning to date. She accepted it perfectly well. A few days later, she bought me pantyhose unsolicited by me. Over time, and since our marriage, my crossdressing has evolved to be more complete in presentation. It will continue to evolve. Has it always been easy? No. My wife has struggled at times. Has she always been the woman who listened to me tell her that I crossdress? The woman that accepted it with aplomb and an open mind? Yep.

That's one of the bazillion reasons I married her. She can and does adapt to change, carries an open mind, and recognizes destructive behaviors for what they are. Crossdressing isn't a destructive behavior. She knows that.

A crossdresser can exhibit destructive behaviors. But those behaviors are not crossdressing. A man who puts on a pair of pantyhose does not suddenly become evil.

You can compromise, come to terms, grapple. Decide on rules; when and where to dress, who can know, what's allowed and what isn't. Or you can choose to walk away from a person you swore an oath to before (most people say) God, for better, for worse.

Did you marry a fantasy or a reality?

Putting on my asbestos plate armor...

[Bev06 GG]

WOW Julie
amazing

[KimberlyJo]

WOW Julie
amazing

:iagree:

[kimdl93]

Julie,

I agree that in the real world, we're all imperfect and our image of ourselves and our SO evolves over time. And I suspect that man, woman or variations there of each carries with them a somewhat idealized mental image of their SO at the beginning of a relationship.

Should any of us be surprised by our SO's response - whatever it may be - upon being informed of our interest in cross dressing? Unless we first meet them in full drag, isn't it inevitable that they have some expectations that will be challenged by either the admission or inadvertent discovery.

I'm really more surprised and gratified by an accepting or at least tolerant response by anyone. And isn't it true that any of us who have a confidant - male or female - a friend or family member, a co-worker or even a Sales assistant, feel a sense of relief and gratitude whe we're accepted by that person.

I don't blame anyone for their reaction - hell, I didn't like myself for a long time!

just my thoughts,

Kim

[janelle]

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!








Hugs to everyone

[RobynBella]

Luckily, my girlfriend wanted to dress me up. She did my makeup and put me in a dress after I sort of lost a bet. A week or so later, I told her that I actually like crossdressing and I have since I was young. Her response was pretty much "So you're gonna let me take the straightener to your hair now, right?" She's incredible about it, I love her so much <3!

[audreyinalbany]

There's an old saying that women marry men thinking they can change them and men marry women thinking they'll never change. They're both wrong.
Like Karen, I can completely emphasize with my wife's feelings about my crossdressing. She didn't sign up for this, she didn't expect it, she doesn't welcome it.
But by the same token I didn't marry her thinking that, within a year, she'd stop identifying herself as a wife and lover and completely disappear into the role of 'mother,' or that she'd be working every night until six or seven o'clock, or that I'd be doing all the laundry and all the cooking and that, when we do share time together it's rarely doing the things I want, instead it's driving her around to the malls and the decorating supply stores.
So we've both changed and matured and it's all alright. After thirty years we're still in love, we're just different people than we were at twenty-five.

[audreyinalbany]

...also, it seems to me that it's fairly easy for many women to accept crossdressing as long as it's not their significant other who's doing it. The women I've met out and about as Audrey seem to be non-judgmental, accepting, and friendly. The only gg besides my wife who I've come out to has been supportive and understanding. I think that when an assault on ones self identity ("oh, my God, I'm married to a crossdresser (weirdo, pervert, whatever) is revealed, it can be hard to handle...

[Brandi Wyne]

Keri, all TSs are CDs but not all CDs are TSs. In the picture of marriage, it's just a very thorny and complicated subject. Is a man truly deceiving if the "rules" of social conduct from his youth up condemned all the things he felt inside? Only a couple of decades ago that same person was "queer" to everyone else and sick and abnormal. We adapted as best we could, just like the ggs who wanted to be accepted and loved just as they were by others, who set Barbie or June Cleaver as a standard of dress and conduct. We all lived in a society of double standards and hypocracy.

About the time I got married, even such words as masturbation were Never used in social situations. Even looking at soft porn magazines was a huge offense if we were caught. Do you understand where I come from? I did my best to adapt, and stuffed my feelings and needs down and sneaked around to express them in secret for so many years. Raising children also impacted my life as how would they or their little friends react if they even got a hint that I was a CD?

Now, my life has changed again and I have more reasons to pursue my femme self because there are fewer obsticals. That brings us to the SO. How do I now, after many years of marriage, suddenly express that I have always felt that I needed to be femme as well as being the most important male in her life? Trust me, it will happen. But the scene will be horrible and the aftermath will be the fires from which the Phoenix rose.

[Georgia_Grayce]

OMG...! Ahhh the reaction by all the fallen lovers in the past. I say if they don't want it move on. My life is to valuable to have another woman tell me how to think, act, or promote myself the way I want. I sorry but hit the road G.Friend its time to find someone worthy of ME!

I have informed many others of my preference and was for a while considered gay by most my friends although bi and love women so much i want to be one. They just didn't understand...now I have a SO that is accepting of me. I couldn't be happier!! I don't see those friends anymore.

In conclusion it was me not allowing myself the right to have another who would be accepting of me. When I released labels of gender or sexuality I became free to have those in my life become attracted to what I truly am instead of who I was playing to be...who was NOT me.

Just be yourself and you WILL attract those who want to be with you!

[Katesback]

So so true. Earlier I illustrated a typical scenerio of what happens that leads to divorce sadly so often.

Now what I did not say in there was that anyone was wrong. Now I will say what is actually wrong from a mental health standpoint.

What is wrong is when a person willingly chooses to live based upon the will of other people. That includes a wife. I personally lived a good portion of my life at the whims of society till one day I said "screw this". I then moved on.

I would encourage anyone to live thier dream and do whatever it takes to be happy (even if it includes a divorce)!!!

[Georgia_Grayce]

So so true. Earlier I illustrated a typical scenerio of what happens that leads to divorce sadly so often.

Now what I did not say in there was that anyone was wrong. Now I will say what is actually wrong from a mental health standpoint.

What is wrong is when a person willingly chooses to live based upon the will of other people. That includes a wife. I personally lived a good portion of my life at the whims of society till one day I said "screw this". I then moved on.

I would encourage anyone to live thier dream and do whatever it takes to be happy (even if it includes a divorce)!!!

So true indeed! I am soo glad I didn't give into the forces of others. I listened to only one voice...my own. In the end being true had all the rewards that were described but with all the frustration along the way. Its not easy...but very worth the trouble.

Now I am commited for life with a SO who loves me for who I am and who I want to become. I was honest and open completely from the begining. It was not easy at first but what a great reward to hard work~!