CD Wife...Could It Be That I Can Relate After All? [Archive] - Crossdressers.com - #1 Community & Forum for Crossdressers, Family and Friends

HappyWife42

01-30-2010, 10:04 AM

Hi there, my husband and I have been talking a lot the past week about his need to CD and how important it is in his life. As MarlaGG mentioned in a previous post this week, I realized I was in denial about his CDing as a need and not an "interest" as he bashfully led me to believe. (I knew of it from the start but did not fully recognize, due to my denial and his shyness about the topic, still.) I never wanted him to feel ashamed of it, and never thought to try to tell him to deny this need, but on the same token, I told him "I just don't understand..usually I can empathize but I just can't understand this need."
Well, after thinking about it and discussing it with him some more, I think maybe I CAN after all.
I can't understand the need to dress up, because I don't care much to dress up myself. In fact, looking into it little further, I don't feel natural or comfortable in very feminine, frilly styles of clothing. I never liked skirts. I hate loud patterns (except leopard print, polka dots and camoflage). I love pants - jeans, t-shirts, sneakers, boots. So yes, I don't understand why anyone would want to spend hours getting dressed up.
But what he pointed out to me, is that as a woman in our society today, I can totally wear men's clothes and do what would be considered traditionally masculine things, and never be questioned about it. In fact, he pointed out to me I was wearing a men's item during our conversation. I have worn men's clothes here and there (Tshirt, boots and shoes, even men's deoderant becuase I hate flowery smells) for my whole teen and adult life. We have discussed in the past, if you could choose your gender, what would you be? For me the answer has always been...a man.

As I thought about this more, I realized that maybe I really CAN relate. Puberty was so hard for me, I didn't want to grow up so fast to be this woman. I just wasn't ready..I wanted to be less womanly and was uncomfortable in this womanly form.

I love to go to the gym and lift weights, in my tank top and shorts, with my ponytail, and feel in shape and in control. Zumba is my favorite workout - because it embraces my masculine and agressive side without denying my femaleness.

I love to go hiking and camping. I feel very comfortable in jeans and a tank top.

Even when I get dressed up, it's sort of plain and masculine. Lots of eyeliner and dark colors, lots of A-line and pinstripe clothing. No cleavage. Silver hoop earrings - very bold. I paint my toenails but only because it takes 10 minutes and looks good. Fingernails are just too impractical for me. The vast majority of the time I wear pants, unless I'm feeling particularly girly or traditional.

Bathing suits: boy shorts and a tank.

I pride myself in my strength, both physically and emotionally.

If you ask me if I am a straight woman, the answer is yes! I have no gender identity crisis and I am not a lesbian. I am attracted really manly men, actually, because they make me feel very feminine, naturally, by comparison, which I don't often feel. But there is also a side of me that I have never denied - my masculine side.

The only difference is, no one has ever asked me to deny it. I have never felt uncomfortable expressing myself as who I naturally am... a natural woman, to be sure, but....plus.
My husband has been told from the start that to express this NATURAL side of him was not an option, not okay. How difficult it has been for him to be honest with himself - he did not have the privilege of never having to think about it, as I did.

Well...now that I feel I may understand...I don't feel afraid any longer, and I feel guilty and sad that I ever questioned it as anything other than his nature...a straight man...plus.
On the positive side, I really am looking forward to embracing this side of him which I have acknowledged, as well as this side of myself that I actually had to say out loud for the first time in a while (although I have always thought it and known it). There is a whole other dimension to each other that we can explore now.

I know not every woman has this kind of masculine side (but feminine identity) that matches up so perfectly parallel to her mate's feminine side. How did we end up so well paired? It must have been something we were attracted to in each other. I would be lying if I said I was not attracted to, and comforted by, his feminine side. His tenderness and sensitivity, and his motherly sensibilities with my daughter, even his taste in Lilith Fair -type music, was fascinating to me. Just like many CDs are fascinated by their wives, well, I'm fascinated by my husband. His gentleness. His understanding of women. His beauty. Yes, beauty! This can't be an accident. This part of him is part of the whole package that I fell in love with, and now I realize, perhaps my "plus" side, incorporated in my womanly self, may be part of what he fell for too.

The natural me, with all of my sides. Well, I am going to embrace all of his sides too..and I am in fact looking forward to it..he can be the ying to my yang in this regard.

Do any CDs think I'm totally off the mark or wrong my making this comparison?

Do any CD SO's relate to what I am saying, about having a "plus" side even though you are totally a woman in every way?

Just wanted to share, since I feel I may have had something of a revelation here.

Thanks all for your input and for reading what I had to say!

Kathi Lake

01-30-2010, 10:12 AM

Oh wow, oh wow, oh wow!!

HappyWife. You so totally get it! This phrase here, ". . . The only difference is, no one has ever asked me to deny it." is it!

Th world tells us to deny our true selves - not necessarily that we're a woman, but that we have feelings in us that are not aggressive, angry, manly. Honestly, I couldn't cry a my mother's or grandmother's funeral. It sucks.

Thank you for this bit of understanding. Your husband is a lucky guy!

Kathi

Sexyalexis

01-30-2010, 10:25 AM

I think you have hit the hole thing spot on. You hit on a big part of it and it does make you think how easy it is for women to express there masculine side than it is for a man to express his fem. side. Not to take any thing away from female to male people they have struggles with identity just like we do but if a women wears a mans pants shirt and shoes there would not be a secound thought about it when in public. Its a completely diffrent game for a CD. I am very happy for you and your husband this understanding does not come easy or offten. I wish you to the best.

XOXO
Alexis

Amy Lynn3

01-30-2010, 10:33 AM

You do get it and you are correct in your statements. You said what we CD's have said all along.....we just have a plus side. You have great insight and understanding and may you and yours forever be blessed.

kaitlin

01-30-2010, 10:59 AM

Hello Happy Wife 42, I read your post, then I read it again....went and got my wife and she read it...we have and still do feel the same way! My wife said "I love this woman" I have known from about age 5 I was different, wasn't into the manly things so much, But was forced by society to suppress my feelings and act like most all other males. My wife is a very pretty little 100 pounder, but she's never been into much makeup, girly clothes, would chose tennis shoes or boots over heels or cute flats. Even though all her sisters (3) and her mom wouldn't dream of being seen without it all. So we fit together very well from the beginning, understanding each others wants and needs! Embrace each others true self and enjoy a side of life that most never get to! Kaitlin

Wen4cd

01-30-2010, 11:36 AM

I have to award you the "Golden Hammer." You hit that nail straight on the head.

One definition I sometimes use for 'feminine' is "that which can relate" and you certaily speak like you do. Your insights are almost eerily clear, (so much so that if I were as cynical as I used to be, I would be wondering which one of us here was playing this little joke. :))

I also appreciate and admire your positive framing and outlook. I'm sure a big wave of relief is spreading across your household for reaching such a depth of understanding between you.

DiannaRose

01-30-2010, 11:42 AM

Happy, you are amazing!

My wife also doesn't get my need to dress up...I'd love for her to be able to read your post, but sadly she still wants nothing to do with understanding any of this, and has said she can't hear anything about it from me no matter what, but I'm taking your points to heart against the day when she CAN hear it and try to understand. Thank you, so much, for understanding!

When you hit your 10 posts and can send and receive private messages, please message me. I'd like to talk to you about the possibility of quoting some of your post on my blog.

Holly

01-30-2010, 11:52 AM

Yes, you get it, Happy Wife (I love your name btw :)). You've been able to wear the things that make you comfortable both physically and emotionally without influence or criticism from anyone or negative reaction from society. You could wear a camo tank or a pink tank with a bunny on it to the gym and no one would think anything of it either way. But a guy wearing that pink tank would hear about it plenty. It shouldn't be that way.

Although you didn't come right out and say this in exactly these words, it appears that you have grasped the difference between gender and sexuality. Your husband can still be that "manly ,man" who completes the feminine within you, but he can also nurture your soul and have compassion and real empathy for the things you feel as well. That combination is rare and wonderful and the fact that the two of you seem to not only recognize this but appreciate and Cherish it as well is special and precious.

I hope that more people, like yourself, will in time, come to the realization that those of us who are trans-gender and actively explore this part of our lives are no less a man (or woman, in the case of our FtM brothers) but we are simply a more complete person in search of ways to outwardly express how we feel within.

May you and your husband continue to grow in love and understanding of one another and yourselves.

joannemarie barker

01-30-2010, 11:56 AM

that's the most eloquent expressive and fantastic post i've ever had the pleasure to read :)

Rianna Humble

01-30-2010, 12:12 PM

Do any CDs think I'm totally off the mark or wrong my making this comparison?

You are so not off the mark, it is incredibly encouraging for all of us. If this were an archery contest, you would have hit dead centre of the bulls-eye.

Do any CD SO's relate to what I am saying, about having a "plus" side even though you are totally a woman in every way?

I'm not a CD's SO, butI can totally see what you are saying - in fact I have admired it in some of my GG friends in the past.

Just wanted to share, since I feel I may have had something of a revelation here.

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us, you haven't just had a revelation, you are a revelation in the very best sense of the term. :hugs:

that's the most eloquent expressive and fantastic post i've ever had the pleasure to read :)

JoanneMarie said it better than I can

Leigh58

01-30-2010, 12:14 PM

"You could wear a camo tank or a pink tank with a bunny on it to the gym and no one would think anything of it either way. But a guy wearing that pink tank would hear about it plenty. It shouldn't be that way."

Holly, I was thinking of the wisdom of Happy Wife's posting, and then I saw your statement. Thank you for that! :) That's exactly right. As a GG I can wear a man's sweater (because I find it fits my long arms, and I love the color), or I can wear my really feminine sweater with a gold necklace, etc. If my husband wants to crossover and wear something pretty and feminine, he can't do it openly.

I personally don't wear much that is truly designed for men (a man's sweater once in a great while, man's jeans -when I was pregnant!). But I don't have to. There are so many items made for my female body that look more like guy's clothes. I like the practicality of jeans, t-shirts, sneakers, etc. But I can also chose the fem. stuff if I want. So it's really easy!

On the other hand, as I was just talking with my husband, there is STILL a bit of a difference between my wearing more practical, more "masculine" clothing and HIS wanting to look like he has boobs! I don't feel the need to make it look like I have a penis. Never have even considered it! So maybe someone could explain why CDs want boobs! I understand the make-up, wigs, frilly clothes, etc. That isn't really different than me wearing guy clothes or guy style women's clothes. But the boobs? I don't get it. And it's the stuffed bras that bother me the most about my husband's CDing. Help me understand, please!

All of that aside, you've helped me understand just a little bit more today! :thumbup:

Thank you Happy Wife. Thank you Holly! :love:

Jason+

01-30-2010, 12:56 PM

Happy Wife,

Awesome! Fantastic! Even these seem completely inadequate to express how wonderful that was to read about. It makes me very happy for both of you. I also, as evidenced by name, share and appreciate your "plus" theory.

Leigh58 "On the other hand, as I was just talking with my husband, there is STILL a bit of a difference between my wearing more practical, more "masculine" clothing and HIS wanting to look like he has boobs! I don't feel the need to make it look like I have a penis. Never have even considered it! So maybe someone could explain why CDs want boobs! I understand the make-up, wigs, frilly clothes, etc. That isn't really different than me wearing guy clothes or guy style women's clothes. But the boobs? I don't get it. And it's the stuffed bras that bother me the most about my husband's CDing. Help me understand, please!"

Leigh,

The truly best person to try to help you understand why he wants boobs is him. I don't wear forms myself although I suspect they would make some of my favorite clothes fit better since a woman my size generally isn't small breasted. For a lot it helps improve their feminine appearance. Bras whether stuffed or not are a real hard spot for my wife as well. They are the one thing she says is just creepy on me.

GaleWarning

01-30-2010, 01:03 PM

This is probably the best post I have read on this site.
Rational, balanced, thoughtful, insightful, ...
And so clearly and eloquently expressed!
Thank you, Happywife.
May you long continue to grace us with your presence.
:hugs:

Kerigirl2009

01-30-2010, 01:25 PM

I love this post and I wish my wife had this type of understanding. This really makes me want to show my wife but I do not wish to force any more than I have already, so someday she may see this post. thank you for opening up a side of yourself that shows understanding.

For me "Why do I have the need to have breasts (forms)" Well when I am dressing I want to pass as a woman as close as I possibly can. To me breasts are the foremost feminine body part that a GG has no matter what their size. I guess it is sort of a right to passage for all GG in my eyes.
I feel that without breasts this would draw more attention to myself, I do not want to be ridiculed by anyone for being the way I am so I am hoping when I have my forms on complete my illusion at least to myself.

I think this is why a lot of GG have more issues with us CD wearing bras especially with our forms. (this is just my opinion) and I think I understand why women feel this way. Breasts are a huge part of a woman (no matter the size)

Thanks Happy Wife for making me smile. :)
Leigh 58- I tried to explain the why but not sure I did :)

sandra-leigh

01-30-2010, 01:40 PM

So maybe someone could explain why CDs want boobs! I understand the make-up, wigs, frilly clothes, etc. That isn't really different than me wearing guy clothes or guy style women's clothes. But the boobs? I don't get it. And it's the stuffed bras that bother me the most about my husband's CDing.

I meant to discuss that subject with my gender therapist last week, but I yack too much and we didn't quite get there. Next session, I hope.

Why do I want boobs? And I don't mean just breast forms, I mean actual distinct breasts of my own. I really don't know. I've been thinking about it a bit, and I don't have a rational answer. I just know that I do, that I have wanted them for more than 7 years -- even before I had any idea that I was a cross-dresser or transgender.

The best I've come up with at the moment is that perhaps for me the desire is irrational -- but irrational doesn't make it any less real. Why do you love who you love and not someone else? You can't reduce that to rational reasons, but that doesn't make your love less real.

I can tell you that when I put on sufficiently large breast forms, my body feels more complete, like something was missing before and is back. And other than my wife, people don't seem surprised or that anything is "out of place" when they see me with a bust line -- just the opposite. The situation is as if my internal "body image" includes breasts, and that that is the image that I "project" to other people. Just like I've never yet had anyone say anything like, "I would never have expected you to be a cross-dresser": the reactions I get are much closer to implicit comments of "I'm glad to see you finally admitted it" and "Why don't you dress up more often?". Call it "bearing", "presence", "aura", "manner", what-ever... my brain tells me that I should have breasts thoroughly enough that most other people see a bust as "natural" on me and some people tell me that I should have implants, that I somehow don't look right without them.

I cannot speak of other people's interactions with others, cannot speak of to what extent anyone else is generally perceived to only look "right" when they have a bust, but by reading other people's stories and talking to other people, I can say that the feeling of being "completed" by putting on breast forms of an appropriate size is quite common. And I know that at least some of the other people actively miss the weight and the bounce and the shape when they take their forms off.

Why do women who have mastectomies very often "miss" their breasts to the point of getting very distraught? I don't know that you will ever find a "rational" answer to that. You might be able to find a neurological pathway that triggers the feeling, but if I were somehow able to list off a chemical reaction for the feeling, would that really make you feel that you now "understood"?

To be certain, I am not speaking for everyone here. Some CD'ers only wear forms (or stuff bras) not because it does anything for them directly, but only because it is "part of the disguise": most women have noticeable busts and few men do, so seeing a noticeable bust helps "guide" other people's gender recognition circuits towards "female". Other people have different "reasons". But for at least some of us, the "reason" is "I don't know why! I just don't feel right without it!!"

giuseppina

01-30-2010, 01:52 PM

Thank you, Happy wife, for understanding the difference between sex and gender. :) :hugs:

Leigh58

01-30-2010, 02:14 PM

I appreciate the explanations about why the breasts/boobs are important. It is hard for me to understand, but Sandra-Leigh and Kerigirl, you have helped. It seems that the reasons are varied. And as my husband and I deal with having the CDing out in the open, the need to completely understand is getting less and less important. I love him the way he is!:)
Happy Wife, thanks for your insights!

DonnaLynn77

01-30-2010, 02:25 PM

Happywife, you are obviously a wonderful person! I want to say thanks for the well written, insightful post. It has brightened my day, and I hope that your words will continue to inspire calm, happy waves of understanding throughout our little community here. :)

You rock, girl!!

JiveTurkeyOnRye

01-30-2010, 02:52 PM

My theory on the breast thing is this. Because society insists that men do not express their feminine sides, many crossdressers when we are younger compartmentalize their desires into a box that eventually becomes a female personality. Subconsciously there's a feeling like it's wrong with what we're doing and think "some part of me must be female because males don't think and dress this way."

I think as more social acceptance is made for men wearing "women's" clothes, less and less young crossdressers will adopt female personas and wear forms. Take me for example. In my early teen years I'd already become well aware of my desire to do wear girly things, but then stumbled upon a small pocket of websites that first presented to me the idea that I could wear skirts and such and still present as a man. It still took me a long time to get confident and secure in myself to do it, and I did try to do the en femme thing for a while but eventually I got to where I am now, which is the best I've ever felt about myself in my whole life.

Edit: I'm talking about CDers only here, not TS folks who obviously have a very different experience

DaisyG

01-30-2010, 03:04 PM

Thank you so very much, HappyWife, for putting into words what so many of us feel but do not articulate very well. Of all the posts over the past year, yours is the one I most would have wanted to share with my late wife. We undoubtedly would have read it together - - again and again. She would really have related to your perspective about our Plus sides.

Daisy

carhill2mn

01-30-2010, 03:13 PM

Hi "Happywife", I hate to have a "me too" reply but many others have already told you how you well you have grasped, what is for many of us, the essence of our feelings.
Additionally, you expressed yourself wonderfully.

From the description of yourself, one could easily think of you as a "tomboy". You have the freedom to be either feminine or masculine in your actions, dress, or feelings and society, for the most part, accepts you either way. Unfortunately, this has not been the case for of us males who would like to have the same freedoms. I enjoyed my boyhood but I would have loved to have been able to wear a pretty dress and party shoes as well. Alas, that was not going to happen and had to be kept hidden.

Fortunately, in my later years, I am now able to enjoy wearing pretty clothes and shoes as well as makeup and jewelry, etc.

Mary Morgan

01-30-2010, 03:20 PM

Wow, a testament to the power of communication, not just talking, but listening, trying to understand, feeling compassion and wanting to reach out to the other person. We would all benefit greatly by applying your example to our lives.

JustWendy

01-30-2010, 03:29 PM

For me, when I dress, I want to look and feel as feminine as possible. That includes being round in the appropriate places - so the appearance of boobs and some definition between the waist and hips. And, depending on the dress, the appearance of cleavage is a plus. This contributes to a softer appearance in the same way that shoulder pads in a woman's suit jacket square the shoulders and offer an appearance of strength.

Wendy

HappyWife42

01-30-2010, 04:00 PM

Thank you so much for the kind words and compliments, everyone. It made my day to read that I made everyone's day! :-) My husband and I are enjoying a very nice day at home together, and after this long week of talking it out we are feeling so much closer. I think having him wake up this morning to read this post and all of the wonderful replies is the beginning of another beautiful and closer chapter in our marriage. The man is just glowing right now. He pointed out how much calmer he feels now that we are talking about it, because the frustration of holding it inside was eating away at him. I am going to write this day down on my calendar as a "Day of Understanding." Maybe in a year from now we will drink a toast to it! :love:

I feel so sad that some of you here are struggling so much, just to express who you really are, instead of living in frustration and denial. It really isn't fair. Society has come very far recently towards acceptance, but sadly, we still have a long way to go. Seems to be a flaw of humanity to want to label and simplify everything and everyone. Just slap a label on everyone and put them in a box. :Angry3: Jiveturkey, your post reminds me of my husband. Most of the time, he is himself, as a man. But sometimes, he needs to move away from his maleness and embrace his feminine side. Dressing as a woman helps him to feel this release, but he does not think of himself as a female during these times. He is...himself..the very same person..plus. Somewhere between man and woman but always in my heart. :hugs:

Now the next time he is feeling this way, instead of him experincing this alone (because even though I am ok with it he is still so bashful about it) we can hang out together..and maybe I can even get him to watch Mamma Mia with me! (Been working on that for months) :heehee:

SusanCACD

01-30-2010, 04:17 PM

I never thought about it like that before. Wow, what an eye opener. I wonder how long it will take the rest of the world to catch on....

Susan

P.S. Do you have a sister?

Paula UK

01-30-2010, 04:25 PM

hi

what an eye opener - for some.

i admire you post "happy" fantastic lady!

i posted a letter to me/paula from my wife on here some time ago that eches everything youve said - u both sound so much alike.

well done and good luck to you both.

lavistaa62

01-30-2010, 04:34 PM

In time posts and threads become buried however this one is precious enough that I hope it can become a sticky or somehow easy for new visitors to find. Not only was it insightful from our (CD) point of view but it throws a lot of light on the situation for GGs well- my wife found it very well written and on the mark.

sherri52

01-30-2010, 04:55 PM

Happy wife You do understand. With all the male thoughts and clothing and yet you are still the woman in you relationship. Your husband with all his feminine traits is still the masculine man you married. Kudos to the both of you.

Gwendolyn

01-30-2010, 05:36 PM

I am indeed a lucky person to have found Happywife42 and want to thank everyone for their kind words towards her.

She commented favorably on the adult and courteous attitudes people have on the site and is very excited to get so much feedback to her post.

She has thrown me off the computer several times today so she can "see what someone else has written".

Thanks, everyone, for being "cool".

Nigella23

01-30-2010, 06:18 PM

Thank You.

msniki48

01-30-2010, 06:19 PM

Happy wife 42

I could kiss you! everyone knows you are right. we all have some male and female tendencies...it is not a light switch but rather a dimmer switch.

the gray scale...i am somewhere in the middle, but more toward female, i think. everybody is somewhere on that scale.

Today, Society embraces the strong woman, yet for a man to be womanly...somehow is still viewed as less than a man. [even though we know it is a plus] i know this feeling is changing generation to generation... but many of us were brought up with parents in the 50's and 60's....that was still the view. men should act as men.... Although, back then, a woman embracing her strong side would be chastised and told to be a lady...but not today...we are evolving.

Thank you for your deep thoughts

good luck to you both

hugs

msniki48

JustWendy

01-30-2010, 06:53 PM

This has been an incredible thread. Thank you HappyWife42 and Gwendolyn. Continued good luck and happiness to both of you.

Wendy

HappyWife42

01-31-2010, 09:46 AM

Paula UK, I read that letter from your wife. I agree 100% with what she said. You are a lucky man too!

Nicole82

01-31-2010, 09:56 AM

Happywife you rock!!

As somebody who has only just found this other personality and is still trying to not only understand it myself but also answer some of the questions my partner has, I would like to offer you a very big thank you..!!

Bunny Girl Zoe

01-31-2010, 11:16 AM

Wow very understanding wife.

Lee51964

01-31-2010, 02:28 PM

your husband is a very lucky man I hope he makes sure you have a very wonderful Life

Rachel Morley

01-31-2010, 02:52 PM

Well...now that I feel I may understand...I don't feel afraid any longer, and I feel guilty and sad that I ever questioned it as anything other than his nature...a straight man...plus.

On the positive side, I really am looking forward to embracing this side of him which I have acknowledged, as well as this side of myself that I actually had to say out loud for the first time in a while (although I have always thought it and known it). There is a whole other dimension to each other that we can explore now.

OMG! ... I think I'm gonna cry. Seriously, it's almost bringing a lump to my throat. You have articulated extremely well exactly how it is for us. You really do get it! :) We live in a ridged bi-gendered world where any deviation from the expected norm is frowned upon. Regarding gender expression, there are two different sets of rules for men and women. :sad:

I think you two are gonna have a lot of fun with this and in the process are almost certainly going to bond closer with each other. When people who love each other are really opening up and sharing intimate personal emotions with each other how can they not become closer? :2c:

Happy Wife ... you totally rock - big time! :hugs:

Sally24

01-31-2010, 06:02 PM

Wow! I have to add to the chorus of responses to your post.

This is a totally different, but beautiful perspective on the whole male/female balance thing. It is so lovely that you can see the way you each compliment the other. I wish that more gurls could get to this place with their spouces. My wife, at times, has also verbalized the fact that she was probably attracted to the sensitive, female traits that I always expressed, even before I became active.

May you both enjoy the other for a very long time!

ReineD

01-31-2010, 08:45 PM

Dear HappyWife,

Yours is one of the most amazing posts I've read in this forum. Your grasp of the situation is crystal clear!! You and your husband are surely destined to have happy and fulfilling lives together! :hugs:

Do any CD SO's relate to what I am saying, about having a "plus" side even though you are totally a woman in every way?

Absolutely! Although I consider myself to be a woman in every sense of the word, I do value the more stereotypical male characteristics in myself and in other women .. logic, competitiveness, assertiveness, leadership qualities to name a few. And I do not consider men to be lesser beings when they are sensitive, empathetic, and when they can be in touch with their feelings.

I think the world would be a better place if we allowed our boys to cry.
:love:

HappyWife42

02-01-2010, 10:25 AM

ReineD, this is so true:

"I think the world would be a better place if we allowed our boys to cry."

I couldn't agree more!

Rachel, I already feel so much closer to him. Thinking back on it, this is the closeness we shared when we first were together. Somehow, over the past 3 years, through everyday life, we haven't talked about it..and so he felt perhaps I wasn't interested in hearing about it..and there was a bit of secrecy on his part. Now that we are talking about it again, I feel that that part of him that I missed has returned. His lack of comfort in expressing himself (even though he never overtly denied it, but just felt shy about it around me) over time ate away at him and made him grouchy and slightly depressed. I like my husband much better this way..happy and inspired to be himself. This all started with me commenting on why he was turning into a "grouchy old man." He told me, and it was hard for him to do, that part of this was not being able to express himself the way he felt he needed to around the house as a CD. That's when I really came to realize that this is a need and not an "interest." And then from there the rest of the reality checks came. I realize now that the man that I chased after years ago (yes, I did the chasing, breaking more stereotypes) was the long-haired, mild mannered man who loved Tori Amos and reading in the bathtub, who would listen to me and love me for who I am. Not some repressed, depressed and grouchy old man! So, as I said to him yesterday, I hope this is going to turn our good marriage into a great one. We are closer to each other in a way that we have never been with another person.

Thanks so much everyone for your encouraging and kind words. I love this forum, you are all such lovely people! :cheer:

Bethany38

02-01-2010, 11:46 AM

Wow Happywife you have hit a real awakening in your thoughts. I cannot believe how accurate your synopsis of the situation is. We as CD's have been forced (by society) to deny ourselves as we are, and you see this. I think that your Husband has been blessed with you as an So. Sooo many women would not even consider thinking things out as you have. You truly have a gift for empathy. :)

Andie56

02-01-2010, 12:01 PM

WOW I bet this will be one of the most read posts on here. It's said perfectly!

Bethany38

02-01-2010, 12:05 PM

As it has been said before I do hope this becomes sticky.

natashab

02-01-2010, 03:21 PM

Hi Happy wife. It is increadable how close our stories could be but I never realy thought about the way I dress and I prefer to buy clothes which are non-feminine. I adore clothes with a "Jeep" label and the flattest shoes available, cargo pants and I possibly look like I own a game farm half the time.
You realy made an excellent observation.

Dana

02-01-2010, 03:57 PM

Wow! Wow! Wow!

A GG that 'gets it"

:love:

This should become a 'sticky' POST

Leigh58

02-01-2010, 06:45 PM

Tina L.

02-01-2010, 11:50 PM

ALL i can say is thank you Happy Wife i hope to have my gf read this post, might just let her understand some of what i and others feel.

Tina L.

Ellen Ross

02-02-2010, 12:46 AM

Happy Wife,

Thank you for a wonderful post. Thank you for clearly putting into words what I, and others, have tried to say.

You are a wonderful person!

So maybe someone could explain why Cd's want boobs! I understand the make-up, wigs, frilly clothes, etc. That isn't really different than me wearing guy clothes or guy style women's clothes. But the boobs? I don't get it. And it's the stuffed bras that bother me the most about my husband's CDing. Help me understand, please!

Leigh,

As I started to venture down my crossdressing path, I thought the boob thing was weird and didn't think I wanted them. I loved seeing and feeling them, but didn't think I needed them to dress - to express my femme side. That is until I went to a crossdressing / transgender shop for make-up help. When I tried on forms that day I could not believe the feeling, and how I felt much more complete. I still don't understand it, and I don't always wear them and still feel great dressing (I am not wearing forms in my avatar). But when I really want to feel girly (that pink fog you may have heard about) I glue on the forms.

Ellen

ArleneRaquel

02-02-2010, 12:53 AM

Pattie O

02-02-2010, 01:28 AM

I think you have a great understanding of the "need" that we experience as crossdressers/transvestites/transgenders.I feel the desire to dress and it is also lots of fun .I however am mostly in the closet with it but adore the rare occassions I have to get fully dressed.I hope my wife can one day understand my need to dress as you have with your husband.
:battingeyelashes::daydreaming:Pattie

Satrana

02-02-2010, 02:46 AM

Just wanted to share, since I feel I may have had something of a revelation here.

Congrats on getting what CDing is all about. Being able to correspond the freedom modern women have to integrate whatever level of masculinity they want without feeling guilt is the best way to understand what the CDer is feeling and why he acts the way he does. It is not a complex and difficult subject matter after all. In fact it is very straightforward.

If you listen to women who reject their CD partners, they invariably deny any connection with their own masculine wardrobe and interests and the CDing of their partners. In truth they are in denial that the two behaviors are the same even of their implementation turns out to have different.
Some GGs just want to hold onto the sexual stereotype of a masculine man and so refute the notion that he should be interested in expressing femininity.

CDs are just the mirror image of tomboys but have been driven into the closet by society's prejudices. I have suggested that we drop the term crossdresser and use tomgirl instead so people can grasp the connection. Even CDs would understand their behavior better if they stopped thinking their dressing was something weird or special.

To Leigh58 - the reason why CDs want to wear breast forms and aim for emulating a woman is because we lack the integration of our masculine and feminine selves. Without the ability to be feminine growing up, we had to hid away our feminine nature in a dark closet where it became compartmentalized as a guilty, shameful secret. Being unable to openly express our true nature, our femininity lived within our dreams and fantasies where we imagined ourselves as beautiful fully formed women. This is a great mental trick, men cannot be feminine but if I was a woman I could indulge my femininity to my heart's content without guilt or criticism. Thus emulation becomes a ticket to freely express our needs which as men is prohibited.

Over time this female persona becomes more real and developed. Our self image is not of a man wearing a dress but of our imagined female persona in a dress. Many CDs hate the look of a man in a dress for this reason. So what started out as a coping mechanism eventually becomes integrated and inseparable with our feminine projection.

ReineD

02-02-2010, 05:09 AM

CDs are just the mirror image of tomboys but have been driven into the closet by society's prejudices. I have suggested that we drop the term crossdresser and use tomgirl instead so people can grasp the connection. Even CDs would understand their behavior better if they stopped thinking their dressing was something weird or special.

Hi Satrana! :)

I would agree with this, if the tomgirls wanted to present as boys wearing girl's' clothing, even while enjoying stereotypical girls' activities like sewing and cooking (although clothing designers and chefs have traditionally been male), and if when wearing femme clothes they wouldn't be attracted to men. But this is not the case. (Most? Or many?) CDs want to experience "being" a woman, and all that it entails .. having breasts and a woman's body, hiding their male genitals so they can wear the type of clothes that women wear to attract men, experiencing a woman's orgasm and other biological functions, and being seen by others and treated as a biological woman. And they enjoy grooming themselves with the nails, hair, makeup, and sexy clothing, in the manner that women do if they want to attract men.

On the other hand, tomboys know, accept, and like being girls, and they are attracted to boys .. they just don't like wearing dresses and playing with dolls. And, they don't want to have penises nor do they want others to believe they are boys. I think it is the other girls' behaviors they rebel against. I was like this when I was little. I didn't think it fair that boys in our society seemed to be valued more than girls, they were thought to be smarter, they were given more advantages, they were allowed to do things that girls weren't allowed to do, and they were higher in the social pecking order. They had more power than girls. I thought the typical girl was silly, empty headed, and weak because she bought into all of this and she played up to the idea that she needed to pretend to be weaker than she was in order to get boys to like her. As a child, I much preferred to be friends with girls who were stronger and more confident, like I was. :D But I've always been proud to be a girl. Usually a tomboy will grow up to appreciate being a woman and in most cases she will learn to appreciate some of the grooming rituals that are customary in order to attract men.

Isn't this the difference between the two different scenarios? CDs are not proud to be men? I know that many (most?) have said here they do not think themselves attractive as males and some even go so far as to despise their male appearance. Or, maybe the lines are more blurry than we think between CDs and TSs. I don't know. It is hard to tell since so many CDs do not like to label themselves.

I agree that it is not acceptable in our society for boys to express softer feelings and wear dresses, and this is why CDs construct a separate female identity. But, as I mentioned previously, boys are given more advantages and from the onset they are thought to be "better" than girls, so society more readily accepts (since the 60's) that a girl elevates herself if she wants to adopt a more masculine approach (as long as she still wants to be a girl), while boys are thought to lower themselves if they want to emulate girls.

Our society needs to come to regard both men and women as being equal on all levels except in physical strength. Until this happens, there will be inconsistent expectations of both genders. Does this make sense?

... and, :) if we manage to attain truly equal roles, if gender roles become interchangeable as to who should stay home and raise the child and who should go out and brave the world, then perhaps in a few hundred thousand years through the process of natural selection, both men and women will be able to bear children. Or, we will cease to have separate genders and we will become monoecious (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoclinous#Individual_reproductive_unit_.28a_flow er_in_angiosperms.29). We would then all become "wems". :) ... OK, so I never said I was a biologist.

Satrana

02-02-2010, 06:00 AM

But this is not the case. (Most? Or many?) CDs want to experience "being" a woman, and all that it entails ..
I agree but the stage of wanting to emulate a woman IMO is a by-product of the closeting and the subsequent development of a separate feminine persona. I believe all boys begin off as tomgirls. Myself, I did not begin my journey by imaging myself actually being a woman. That line of thought developed later as my femininity developed within my limitless fantasies where I could become a full bodied woman. I cannot believe I would have ventured there if I had had the freedom to dress from the beginning. It would never have occurred to me.

Isn't this the difference between the two different scenarios? CDs are not proud to be men? Yes firstly I believe the initial step on the journey is an unconscious rejection of the brutality of becoming a man. We instinctively looked towards the comforting safety of femininity that does not require us to be brutalized. We learn to love our adventures as a feminine persona and distance ourselves from our maleness. The rudeness and violence that surrounds young males convinces us that women are superior. In time we understand our masculine appearance as the real mask which hides our feminine persona.

Our society needs to come to regard both men and women as being equal on all levels except in physical strength. Until this happens, there will be inconsistent expectations of both genders. Does this make sense?
Yes agree very much but I think this needs a masculinist movement to emerge to allow the male gender to be scrutinized and amended. Indeed the whole idea behind gender roles needs to be challenged. To me parents should not assign a gender to their babies, the child should choose for itself, but that idea is many years away from being taken seriously.

Rianna Humble

02-02-2010, 06:36 AM

Jonianne

02-02-2010, 06:45 AM

......I didn't think it fair that boys in our society seemed to be valued more than girls, they were thought to be smarter, they were given more advantages, they were allowed to do things that girls weren't allowed to do, and they were higher in the social pecking order.....

Reine, I remember in my grade school the opposite was true. Girls were very much considered to be smarter than the boys. I remember the teacher saying so. In all subjects the girls ruled and everyone knew it. I was pretty smart and did well, but rarely scored higher than the girls. I sure envied them.

I agree but the stage of wanting to emulate a woman IMO is a by-product of the closeting and the subsequent development of a separate feminine persona. I believe all boys begin off as tomgirls. Myself, I did not begin my journey by imaging myself actually being a woman. That line of thought developed later as my femininity developed within my limitless fantasies where I could become a full bodied woman. I cannot believe I would have ventured there if I had had the freedom to dress from the beginning. It would never have occurred to me.

Yes firstly I believe the initial step on the journey is an unconscious rejection of the brutality of becoming a man. We instinctively looked towards the comforting safety of femininity that does not require us to be brutalized. We learn to love our adventures as a feminine persona and distance ourselves from our maleness. The rudeness and violence that surrounds young males convinces us that women are superior. In time we understand our masculine appearance as the real mask which hides our feminine persona.....

Renie, my experience has been similar to what Satrana is saying. I have used the same term "tomgirl" since childhood about myself. I started at age 7, coincendantly at the same time I was watching the males in my life and I promised myself I would never be like them and took on the females in my life as my role models. I had NO desire to be a female (back then). I just wanted to wear some of the cloths they wore, to be close to them. I still do not imitate having breasts, to me that would be disrespectful to women (almost sacreligious in my mind, although I certainly do not judge other cd's).
I accept being a male and do not pretend to be a female. Although there are many male attributes I do despise, there are some that I have that I am proud of. I have never shaved my legs (wear thick tights) and have always been proud of my strong hairy legs as well as my body and arm hair (my kids pulling on it).

Actually, the females I have always related to the most were tomboys. I wanted to be around the girls that loved the outdoors and sports, I was OK with them being better than me. I never was attracted to sissy girls nor wanted to be a sissy boy myself. But I did want the freedom tomboys had in being able to cross over to the other gender when they wanted and still be a girl. I wanted to do exactly the same thing, cross over to doing female stuff when I wanted and then go back to being a boy (which I loved as a child - toy trains and toy soldiers for me!)

As Satrana said, years later certain fantasies developed (ie. AGP), but I still never felt I was or wanted to permantly become female. Like it or not, I am still too much a guy. I think the crossdressing I do reflects my feelings. Want I wanted to do as a child was to wear a dress I liked (jumper) and go walking in the woods or park. That is pretty much the extent of what I do now. Also I loved how the tomboys had their hair, usually in a bobed paige style and that is how I wear my hair now. I am happy just being me, a guy who loves to identify "with" women, but not "as" a woman, because I am not.

Josephine 1941

02-02-2010, 08:19 AM

Hi Happy Wife, First Carhill2 said something that hit home with me, TOMBOY. My GG has said to me that she was a tomboy growing up. We now are a complete couple like your self. Melissa and I are the same size in cloths and shoes. She had study in India and until she met me she could not express her male side. Her master had taught the concept of male and female in one person and to inbrace it. I had told her right from the start that I was a C D, she said she had no problem with it because she was from New York city. Right off the bat we had a problem she wore more of my cloths then I did. I had better fashion sense, as she was a widow and most of her cloths were black. We now go out as sisters, been to P town 3 times and Key West many too. I can be dressed 24/7 if I want and a little interesting thing has happened to me. I tend to dress sloppy as women often do, I will have just a bra and a tank top shorts or demin skirt no wig but hair combed forward. Lite lipstick an a little eye liner stud ear rings and flats. I guess I have come full circle. Love to meet you 2 some day I bet we could have a great time. Josephine :hugs:

HappyWife42

02-02-2010, 09:55 AM

Even CDs would understand their behavior better if they stopped thinking their dressing was something weird or special

That's a good point! My husband has told me that when he is CDing he doesn't want it to be treated like a special occasion. He just wants to be treated like I always treat him, because he is still himself.

stresskimo

02-02-2010, 03:19 PM

this is a great post and the responses are fantastic, im ver new to this (SO) and this has really helped my understanding ALOT.

i never realised before how we GG's take for granted that we can wear whatever we want, if i want to wear jeans and a tshirt i can and no one bats an eye lid - although i am a very girly girly and love looking nice and girly but sometimes i just want to relax (and also sometimes wear my bfs boxers and tshirts - because theyre comfy!) i never thought that what he does is exactly the same!

thankyou!

lavistaa62

02-02-2010, 07:17 PM

In some ways I thought ReineD's post supported the "tomboy" view originally proposed and further explained why some CD (though perhaps not TS, can't speak for them) act as they act. If you took all the reasons you expressed for tomgirls wanting to act like boys and reversed them, that is why I would initially anyway, think of women as role models without actually wanting to BE (as opposed to LOOKING) like one.

Those aspects of GG or anyone really who reacts to all things emotionally, panics when reason might prevail, isn't interested in "how things work" or are primarily concerned with social appearances are are not attractive to me nor something I try to emulate. Those those qualities might be considered feminine by some definitions. I prefer the tomgirls who've grown into womanhood but still embrace that playful, overall wearing side of themselves.

I love seeing my wife in the garden, her hands covered in dirt, acting with confidence and decisiveness or acting deliberately through deduction- again what might be called masculine characteristics if one were to succumb to stereotypes.

For myself then attractiveness lies in the blend rather than the pure ingredients.

Satrana

02-03-2010, 02:00 AM

Those aspects of GG or anyone really who react to all things emotionally or panic when reasons might prevail or aren't interested in "how things work" or are primarily concerned with social appearances still are not attractive to me those those qualities might be considered feminine by some definitions. I prefer the tomgirls who've grown but still embrace that side of themselves.

When I hear men complain about their wives, it is almost almost for these types of reasons. There is no doubt in my mind that most men prefer a tomboy partner - they want someone who is strong, capable, confident and independently minded. It makes dealing with day to day issues so much easier and should make for a more stable and satisfactory long term relationship.

If many men prefer a woman who is half masculine and half feminine, then I think we can assume the same is true for women. I frequently hear women say how much they like men with a softer side. The only problem is when women discover that their man's feminine qualities manifest themselves in CDing, then ignorance and prejudice can kick in and it becomes a big deal.

HappyWife42

02-03-2010, 10:13 PM

To reply to the previous two posts, I would agree that a combination of all of the stereotypical traits in each partner makes for a more balanced and healthy relationship. My husband and I are equal partners, in every sense of the word. He is genetically male, I genetically female, yet our roles flip flop in our household. There are times we each do things that are stereotypical of our genders, but just as many times as we don't.
I think the reason that GG SO's are so upset and disturbed by CDing is the fear that they are going to lose their man. That was a thought that went through my head in the beginning.."Does he want surgery? Is he attracted to men? Will I never get to be the woman in our relationship?" These things are scary to a straight GG because it could mean the end of the relationship. Of course lack of understanding, which leads to fear, which leads to frustration, which leads to anger can cause a woman to lash out at her husband for the CDing. I realized I was not so much upset about the CDing as I was feeling neglected in other ways. Once I talked it over with my husband and really understood that he was not gay, or wanting a sex change operation, etc, or that he was threatening my role as the woman in our relationship (quite the opposite...it's a nice feeling to know that he admires me so much he wants to be like me!), my fear subsided. And then when I realized how much it all made sense in terms of the comparison to my own experiences, I no longer was afraid of losing my husband, but instead excited to embrace this other side of him that he has been afraid to share with me.