What percentage of all CDrs to you think pass?

[Patti Remick]

As a Cdr, and one that does not pass very well, I was wondering how many CDrs (percentage of the entire CDg population) who have not had any surgery or take any hormonal therapies - only using makeup, wigs, foundation garments, padding, etc.- can pass well? Make your estimates based on what you have seen, not read about or heard from others. I understand everyones definition of 'passing' is different, just use your own definition. There is no right or wrong answer.

Just to be clear Im not asking if you think you pass, Im asking what percentage of all CDrs to you think pass.

My estimate from my lifelong CDg experience is that less than 5 percent of CDrs pass well.

Patti Remick

[StaceyJane]

I would have to agree. Some people can do pictures that look really good but in person it would be obvious.

[Sandy Banks]

I've only seen one other in public and someone pointed her out to me, otherwise, I would not have noticed................so apparently everyone one I've ever seen has passed and I do try to notice everyone................:2c:

[Super Amanda]

I think we can spot trans type folks easier than the general public, (I know I'm a big-time people watcher! ;) ) so maybe it seems like less are "passable" than there really are. When I spot what I think is a trans person in public, I usually look at how everyone else is treating him or her. I've seen what I thought was not very passable, going unnoticed, and having a fine time.

I like saying I went unnoticed, because when out in public, surely some people realize I'm not a genetic woman, yet most people seem to be decent enough to treat me no different than anyone else.

So to actually answer your question....IMO maybe 12-15 percent of non surgical, or hormone taking crossdressers would fit the standard accepted definition of passing. It has to be on a sliding scale, because one person may think you pass, while another does not. Also, if we were in say, Thailand or Japan, I think that probably 40-60 percent of guys could pass as women!! :)

[Andy66]

Totally completely pass? I'm with you, less than 5 percent. But... if they pass well, they wouldn't be counted because they aren't noticed.

I think young CDs (teenagers and early 20s) pass well because they're still baby-faced. And very old CDs pass well because very old women often look like old men. :eek:

[Sarah Doepner]

At a gathering in Las Vegas last year a group of T-girls were all dressed to the 9's and leaving a resturant. A couple of guys seated nearby were picking the CDs and the wives out pretty easily. They were concentrating and were getting vocal cues as well. It seems they got better than 90% right. There were a couple of girls who just flat out passed.

I think in a more casual setting where the CD is moving alone and not trying to attract attention there is a much better chance of passing or at least being overlooked or simply ignored. The latter is what I go for, please, please just ignore the tall woman and look at the high-school cuties giggling over their latest text message.

[lavistaa62]

Also, if we were in say, Thailand or Japan, I think that probably 40-60 percent of guys could pass as women!! :)

Bring on the soy!

[MAJESTYK]

Absolutely zero. I f someone looks hard enough, they will find something that doesnt "fit". For anyone to "pass" 100% of the time, they would have to look like an idealized woman. Something akin to a Barbie doll. Even for females, it isnt possible. Most women, if you look hard enough , have some trait or another that can be construed as being male.

Now, I know some will become upset with what i say but it's true. Being "percieved " to be female is a collection of countless traits both physical and emotional. Next time you go out, just look at women. You will see they come in all shapes and sizes and all stages of fashion sense but, they are undeniabley Female. It isnt any that we can immitate. We should just be happy that we can fit in, so to speak.

Sorry, but I just hate the " passing" threads. I think trying to pass will make you fail every time.

[kimdl93]

I don't know - I'm always amazed by how pretty some CDers can be. Not many of us are so convincing. Details, like my hands, I think would be a dead give away.

[gabimartini]

Not sure. I don't recall ever clocking a CD, so they must've passed really well! Guess we are our worst critics in the end!

[Julogden]

I've spent a LOT of time in the company of all sorts of TG folks, and my opinion based on a lot of experience with the subject is that if we're speaking of CD's only (no hormones or cosmetic surgery), then I'd say that maybe 1% are passable once they're past their early 20's. I feel that most CD's who claim that they're passing are confusing passing with being tolerated and/or accepted.:2c:

Carol

[Super Amanda]

Even for females, it isnt possible. Most women, if you look hard enough , have some trait or another that can be construed as being male.

That's a bit harsh, dontca think? Especially when in the same breath you say:




Next time you go out, just look at women. You will see they come in all shapes and sizes and all stages of fashion sense but, they are undeniabley Female.


"Undeniably female" means totally passing, and would then mean is is not impossible for "women" right?

[HannahF6]

I guess I'd have to disagree with a lot of the posts here. I don't think I look particularly feminine, but I am certain that most of the world is unobservant.

If "passing" means "I can walk down the street in a skirt or dress and nobody guesses I'm a guy", I think it is not very hard because most people just don't pay attention. For the average person a glance of 1/10th of a second is all they need for an assessment, "there is a woman".

We tend to be sensitive to the issue because we stare in the mirror and see all of the flaws. But guys, put on a skirt and a wig, stuff your bra and walk down the street and most of the time nobody will pay attention.

There are ways of drawing attention, of course. I know a lot of CDers who will dress sexy and then go out at 3 am thinking that is safer because there are fewer people around. This truly draws attention.

Hannah

[Persephone]

Sorry, but I just hate the " passing" threads. I think trying to pass will make you fail every time.
______________________________
If you live your life in denial, you're all wet

Sorry, Majestyk, but I think you're swimmin' in denial on this one.

Sure, many folks are "handicapped" by physical factors, and, unfortunately, for some it may even be pretty damn impossible. While I do feel very bad for them, this post isn't about them, but about the large number of people for whom passing is very possible.

The problem is that many don't try to be the very best that they can be, they settle for mediocrity.

Passing is like any other skill, you have to work your butt off to make it happen. It's a lot of work, so most people fall back on their "I can't pass" excuse.

Yes, there are a million things you have to work on -- loosing the beer gut, how to walk, how to talk, how to minimize your figure flaws and maximize your good points, how to survive in "girl world," you name it, but it can be done if you're willing.

And, frankly, most of it is exactly what GG's do, the only difference is that they often learned the skills earlier than we did. Sure, mother nature may have given them a boost or two, but you think they just float through girl world? Ask 'em, they'll tell you it ain't that easy.

You want to win the prize you gotta stop whining, get off your butt and work at it.

[Gillian]

I have seen two recently that were an obvious non-pass and a couple that I strongly suspected were but were very convincing or should I say quite unconvincing GG's! but the wig's were the more pressing tell tale on them not walk or dress or anything, but my CDradar is always alert to these things so perhaps that was the reason I suspected?

[Brooke Smith]

I can't really answer your question,but I do have an observation.

I look at most people that come into close proximity. When I see anyone presenting as a woman,my brain says "woman" and I accept that is exactly what they are. However,I have a few times said to myself,"Geez,that is a very masculine looking woman",not acknowledging the fact that it in all likelihood she is a male. This has only happened a couple times that I can recall and I really need more than a quick glance for my head to get around the fact it is a guy after all.

This goes for people "on the street",maybe not so much for a club setting.So I guess I have to say,most of you will pass my casual encounter brain test.

If it looks like a duck.....

[Joanne f]

One thing i think you should take into account is that we are inclined to look for others like us in the hope that we will see one and not feel quite so alone, it is in our minds to look for the difference`s where as i doubt that many none CDers go out looking for them .

[Kate Simmons]

My guess would probably be not too many but then, again, who is really counting?:)

[love heels]

I think very few would realy pass there is always a small give away, hands, feet, voice, shape etc.
Lots take good photos there are lots of pic's on here that i would not look twice as being female! But in person i think most would spot the give aways!

But i think we are more critical than most because we recognise ourself in others! :)

[CharleneT]

You'll never really know the answer, simply because you do not know when you pass ! The only thing you get to find out is when you do not. Sure, maybe no one said anything or looked cross eyed at you ... doesn't mean they didn't read you. As several have said, many folks just do not care. Worry about blending, not passing. Life and dressing will be a whole lot more fun then. The funny thing is ... when you stop worrying about it, you'll start to blend more easily.

[Lorileah]

I would have to say 214 pass. That is just an estimate.

Once again I think the word "pass" should be stricken from the record. Way too much emphasis is placed on passing. Most CD's are over 5'9" Many have 40+ shoulders and very small butts. You may think of it as passing but it is more apathy. Hardly anyone cares.

[Sweet Jane]

my guess is 1%....but whats with the 'passing' fixation.....i think all most should care about is they can go and do their lawful business while being treated with dignity and respect by everyone else

....it helps if you leave the sky high shoes, miniskirts and fishnets at home i guess!!!

[Super Amanda]

Once again I think the word "pass" should be stricken from the record. .


I second that motion!!

If needed for descriptive purposes, I suggest either "blend" or "went unnoticed". I dislike "ignored"...just sounds mean.

[charlie]

I think that less then 5% of us would pass under scrutiny. However, as Hannah said, most people on the street are just going about their business and aren't checking to see if every woman walking by is really a guy. As such, most of us are able to walk down the street dressed and aren't hassled.

[nikkijo]

ive passed or so they say... 2 times ever and that was only briefly.. untill i said something.. but it was way to much work...

[jill_cd_girl]

I agree with the <5% passing, but I really like that distinction between passing and going un-noticed. Though I've gone out dressed and gone un-noticed, I don't think I pass. I had a conversation with a friend about this and we both think that it's not just the body size, frame, build, type, etc. but also the aura - by which I don't mean some spooky thing but just things like subtle mannerisms and behaviors and ways of doing things that we normally don't notice when present in a woman but do notice when lacking in what appears to be a woman (even though we may not be able to place our finger on what seems to be strange).

But I think part of it also has to do with the setting and context, and the culture of perception. I don't know - now I'm beginning to babble...sorry!

[Deidra Cowen]

My wild guess based on seeing literally hundreds of CDs, Tgirls, TS's.....

Passable 2%
Blendable 8%

So if ya have ten CDs at a bar, party, event...one will be passable or at least blendable.

Now there is another category. The pretty CD. You know she is a CD. Not passable but for some crazy reason they are pretty as heck. I see a lot of those maybe another 10% of the total.

[kimdl93]

Now there is another category. The pretty CD. You know she is a CD. Not passable but for some crazy reason they are pretty as heck. I see a lot of those maybe another 10% of the total.

deidra's response addresses a question I asked earlier - can you be attractive if not passable. I know I've seen a lot of very pretty women on this site....even if not perfectly passable.

[Samantha_Smile]

A percentage???

Wow, make it tough why dont you?!

Depends on what you mean passable.
If you mean
-Can walk down the street, or through a mall and not get instantly read as a man. (Depending on clothes choice)
Then 10-15%

If you mean
-Can have face to face conversations with people, can wear what they want, act how they want, wear very little make-up... y'know... pass for a woman...
Then <3%

Purely going off pictures I see on here and on chat.

[Super Amanda]

My wild guess based on seeing literally hundreds of CDs, Tgirls, TS's.....

Passable 2%
Blendable 8%



Dang....I guess the tens of thousands of TS girls living stealth don't count?

[Karren H]

Closer to zero... But then again who cares who passes as long as your having fun?

[Katesback]

ALL of the CDs that I work with that use that word do not ever get close to reaching that pie in the sky vision.

On the other hand I have met a fair share of CDs that do go out in the world and fit in just fine. Can people tell? Yes but because they could care less about what other people think, and because they carry themselves with confidence nobody ever gives them a hard time.

the P word really equals failure.

[Deidra Cowen]

Dang....I guess the tens of thousands of TS girls living stealth don't count?

The thread was asking about CDs ...I kinda took it as the whole spectrum from casual CD to FT TS. But I know stealth girls too sweetie. I dated one at one point. So I know they are out there. But they are very rare...yeap in the two percent but rare.

I know a lot of girls and guys get upset about passing and all that. Hey I'm not passable but I get a huge kick out of those girls that do. Does not bother me...well would luv to be passable but hey I have fun with it and just try to max out da look.

By the way your avatar/profile pic is lovely and quite stealthy. :devil:

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

Sorry, Majestyk, but I think you're swimmin' in denial on this one.

Or maybe she just sees things differently than you do.


Sure, many folks are "handicapped" by physical factors, and, unfortunately, for some it may even be pretty damn impossible. While I do feel very bad for them, this post isn't about them, but about the large number of people for whom passing is very possible.

The problem is that many don't try to be the very best that they can be, they settle for mediocrity.

Or maybe they just see things differently than you do.

Yes, I bet with a crap ton of work, body shapers, hunting down the right tops and layering on makeup and spending a lot of time on maintaining wig, I could "pass." But I look great and feel great the way I dress. I have also seen many CDs who look great how they are and might "pass" better with more work but I don't think it would make them any more attractive. It's not settling for mediocrity, it's someone achieving their own level of happiness.


You want to win the prize you gotta stop whining, get off your butt and work at it.

Again, maybe they see "the prize" differently than you do.

[Fab Karen]

Literally passing? Almost none. In the "I'm not sure from a distance" category a bit higher number. And in the dark of night from a distance, the number goes up.
Some of the girls who get comments online like,"oh, I'd think you were a woman" most of them up close in person wouldn't get the same comment. Pretty, femme CD, yes. As the guy at the end of "Some Like it Hot" said,"nobody's perfect."

[Loni]

i would have to say less than 5% can "pass".

but up to 60-70% can blend in, with no real problems.

as i people watch, just looking for things, i might have seen a cd/ts/tg pass by and might have even missed a couple.
but i will never call them out, for any reason..
but if there is trouble...but then i would even call out if the one about to be in trouble is a gg. (just think safety here).

even seen some real girls that could be a very badley done up tg person.:eek:. at least i belive they were gg.........:o

.

[christinek]

I think a huge margin of GG don't pass to well either. When we say pass what we are saying is not the same thing we are thinking.

The below is for both sexes

If you are over weight = not passing
If you dress badly = not passing
If your makeup gets applied with a spatula = not passing
Or if you need the above to remove it also!

If your hair is a rats nest or too short for your face = not passing
If you wear clothes for comfort and throw style to the wind = Not passing
If you sound like Susan Estridge from Fox News = not passing

I could go on and on but you get the idea, we set ridiculous standards on things and stop looking at a persons heart.

I met a girl at the SCC last year, she did not dress so well or pass so well. But we started talking and she had this heart of gold, I was looking into her eyes and listing to her heart and then all I saw was this beautiful american indian woman I was in awe with. I wanted more, to hear more. She came dressed as Sacajawea for heros night and looked amazing! I only wish to meet her again.

Do you pass is not a visual thing, it is a personnel thing. Mean people will be mean and point out your flaws. Do you think fat chicks don't get made fun of, and they are GG's? It is sad but honestly equal negative effect for both, but we take our clothes off, over weight GG's cant change so easily.

I am not making fun of overweight people at all just in case you want to flame me, I am only using the stigma placed on the condition to help others understand the similarity to our own, I know some of us are also overweight, I was too! I made a public post with pictures when I was 230 pounds, I am now 172 pounds.

If you move from the house to the real world in Fem, you are BEAUTIFUL, do you pass? Most likely not!

[AmandaM]

My wild guess based on seeing literally hundreds of CDs, Tgirls, TS's.....

Passable 2%
Blendable 8%

So if ya have ten CDs at a bar, party, event...one will be passable or at least blendable.

Now there is another category. The pretty CD. You know she is a CD. Not passable but for some crazy reason they are pretty as heck. I see a lot of those maybe another 10% of the total.

I second this. About 2% can pass in 99% of the time. Maybe 1% can fool everyone all the time. About 10% can blend, usually.

[sherri52]

I would say about 15% pass on a dime and another 15% that could if they put thier minds to it. For those of us that go out, 95% have a great time without incident regardless if they pass or not.

[Sallee]

I would have to a agree not very many When you get several together fewer pass. Alone maybe 10 to 15% but not if some one looks closely. Ant there are sometimes that we pass fine and other not so much.
I can speak for myself and say that I feel I pass OK some of the time and other times I can be read by a blind man on a dark night.
I'll say maybe 5% all the time and the rest some of the time 10 to 15%

[Nicole Erin]

Sorry, Majestyk, but I think you're swimmin' in denial on this one.

Sure, many folks are "handicapped" by physical factors, and, unfortunately, for some it may even be pretty damn impossible. While I do feel very bad for them, this post isn't about them, but about the large number of people for whom passing is very possible.

The problem is that many don't try to be the very best that they can be, they settle for mediocrity.


Well, there is this non-stop insecurity on forums and such about "most CD's can't pass" so probably a lot of CD and even TS might eventually think "Why even try?" and pretty much give up. Some people rely heavily on forums for their validation or whatever. You hear about girls going out cause of inspiration sought on the stories here, and that is great. But now what about the ones who are afraid to go out or try to look good cause well, they probably are not in the theoretical 1-5% who can pass and even if they do, then this or that is lacking and what if someone notices... :brolleyes:

See that is the problem, too many CD and TS seek validation from their very competition. I mean even a few of the really pretty passable TS here seem insecure cause of the constant "well maybe 1% actually pass and even if you do, what about this and that...?"

Ladies and gents I am gonna tell you like this - in the real world, people are not going to judge as harshly as they do on forums. TG are harder on each other than anyone else is. So now, exactly who are the *real* TG bashers?

I am just glad I learned about the TG life before I learned what forums and chat were about. Gyod if this had been my first step, I would have never came out of the closet.

[Rachel Morley]

What's the percentage? ... I have absolutely no idea. All I can tell you is that (and I really mean this) I would say 9 times out of 10 when I go out in mainstream public places I feel like I never even get a second look (weird I know!). Do I pass? (in the sense that people think I'm female - albeit an ugly one with too much makeup).... I really don't know ... maybe, but that's only because they're too busy minding their own business and I don't particularly stand out (5ft 4in, 130lbs, and dressing to blend in). It also got to do with being "trans-aware" ... take my wife, she's very trans-aware, she can read almost anyone, yet she herself will tell you, go back 10 years where her awareness was no more than regular Joe Public and she would have "missed" a lot of girls who walked right by her. :)

[sterling12]

Good friend Josette, (who is a GG) always reminds me about our Favorite Story. We have attended numerous TG events, and almost always somebody will come up to Josette and tell her how "passable" she looks. Josette having a sense of humor, and being nobody's fool; always gives credit to Josette's Dressing Service..."They made me The passable Gurl that I am today!" So a lot of this stuff is about somebody else's "perception of gender."

We always seem to get trapped into these involved discussions, and really IMHO it doesn't matter! I don't know why we knock ourselves out with such foolishness. Ultimately, why should we care, why should anyone else care, whether we are passable or not. It's just not very important!

And, here's my clincher why it doesn't matter. Most gurls who spend much of any time actually "out there" would probably back me up. The Percentage of TG Women who are "passable" to ALL persons 24/7? That would be ZERO! Everybody eventually gets Read. The good thing is that if your not being a public nuisance, not trying to be overly flamboyant, nor provocative, it just doesn't matter to 99% of The people you will encounter.

By all means, try to look as nice and be as femme as Your Little Heart desires. But do not kid yourself, never to be discovered? It just ain't going to happen!

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Deidra Cowen]

What's the percentage? ... I have absolutely no idea. All I can tell you is that (and I really mean this) I would say 9 times out of 10 when I go out in mainstream public places I feel like I never even get a second look (weird I know!). Do I pass? (in the sense that people think I'm female - albeit an ugly one with too much makeup).... I really don't know ... maybe, but that's only because they're too busy minding their own business and I don't particularly stand out (5ft 4in, 130lbs, and dressing to blend in). It also got to do with being "trans-aware" ... take my wife, she's very trans-aware, she can read almost anyone, yet she herself will tell you, go back 10 years where her awareness was no more than regular Joe Public and she would have "missed" a lot of girls who walked right by her. :)

Holy cow I did not know you were that short! Lucky girl, thats a great asset.

I hope I don't offend ya Rachel but I get the impression you probably are at best in boy mode pretty much androgenous. In girl mode your fem features pop and you are one of the lucky ones. Get over the "ugly one" stuff, your a very beautiful girl and I get the vibe from your posts over the years that your actually an intelligent and sweet person too. Not a bitchy wild child like I am. :devil:

The Trans Aware point is important! Ya could probably double my percentages that I gave if its a civilian (regular joe) doing the spotting as opposed to one of us with our super tuned in Tgirl radar.

[AliceJaneInNewcastle]

Hmm.

Percentage of all CDs who pass? You'd need to know accurately what percentage of all CDs go out to even start to answer the question.

Here's a few percentage estimates based on my own experience.

Percentage of CDs who successfully pass in the eyes of most people, some of the time, while not in the company of other CDs, around 5%. Percentage who could do this if they wanted to and had the confidence and skills to do so, around 50%.

Percentage of CDs who successfully pass in the eyes of a few of the people, most of the time, while not in the company of other CDs, around 80%. Percentage who could do this if they wanted to and had the confidence and skills to do so, around 98%.

Percentage of CDs who successfully pass in the eyes of most observers when in the company of other CDs = 5*(1+c)/(n^2), where n is the number of CDs in the group and c is the number of cisgendered people in the group. In other words, the dilution of CDs within a group of non-crossdressed people increases passability, but the number of CDs within that group reduces the passability of each CD far more rapidly.

Do I pass? I don't now, because nobody actively approaches me to tell me. :p It's probably a safe bet that the woman in the local shopping centre (mall) who wanted to talk me into trying out a hair straightener a few weeks ago didn't realise that I was wearing a synthetic wig at the time, and didn't appear to have read me. ;)

[Cheryl T]

Most of us do not "pass" in public. :sad:

I used to think that was the ultimate goal for me. I wanted desperately to be seen only as a woman and not "read" as a CD. In the last few years my confidence has grown and when I go out I am not concerned with being "read" even though I do my very best to present myself as a woman to the world. It's no longer about "passing" for me, but about being me and expressing the woman inside.
If I am "read" so be it. :tongueout

I don't do this for everyone else, I do this for me. :gfi:

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Sorry, Majestyk, but I think you're swimmin' in denial on this one.

Sure, many folks are "handicapped" by physical factors, and, unfortunately, for some it may even be pretty damn impossible. While I do feel very bad for them, this post isn't about them, but about the large number of people for whom passing is very possible.

The problem is that many don't try to be the very best that they can be, they settle for mediocrity.

Passing is like any other skill, you have to work your butt off to make it happen. It's a lot of work, so most people fall back on their "I can't pass" excuse.

Yes, there are a million things you have to work on -- loosing the beer gut, how to walk, how to talk, how to minimize your figure flaws and maximize your good points, how to survive in "girl world," you name it, but it can be done if you're willing.

And, frankly, most of it is exactly what GG's do, the only difference is that they often learned the skills earlier than we did. Sure, mother nature may have given them a boost or two, but you think they just float through girl world? Ask 'em, they'll tell you it ain't that easy.

You want to win the prize you gotta stop whining, get off your butt and work at it.

sorry sweetie,but you're the one in denial....

I want to be a superstar guitarist, talent matters, alot.

being tolerated is great, and its what we should go for as our minimum need when we are out and about...

[Lorileah]

Passing posts always degenerate int p*ssing posts. You want to look like "a girl" and the fact is you want to look like a specific girl. You want to walk like the "regular" woman, you want to talk like a regular woman. But there are no regular women. The walk you epitomize is learned and trained and most women don't walk like that. The "tells" are no accurate. There are women who are 6'6" and women who have broad shoulders and even women with facial hair and Adam's apples and hands they can palm a basketball with. You cannot look or act like every woman. They don't come out a mold.

So can you pass? If passing means you aren't confronted, yes. If it means someone won't know you are really male, no. It takes a lot of work and usually a fair amount of surgery to look like Talia. But you can look like Julia Childs. She was all woman but didn't fit the criteria that seems to be the epitome here.

The more you worry about "passing" the more you won't. If you have to think about doing something it becomes noticeable. Be you. Be confident. Be relaxed. No one will say anything to you unless they are just rude or drunk. Rudeness you can't do anything about. Drunk is self inflicted. Both are a very small percentage of the population. Probably equal to the number of CD's who "Pass".

[Engendered]

I passed in my youth. Those days are gone. :doh:
But I think a lot more of us could pass with the right "look". My definition of "passing" is going the whole time you're out without anyone else thinking "is that a guy?".

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Passing posts always degenerate int p*ssing posts. You want to look like "a girl" and the fact is you want to look like a specific girl. You want to walk like the "regular" woman, you want to talk like a regular woman. But there are no regular women. The walk you epitomize is learned and trained and most women don't walk like that. The "tells" are no accurate. There are women who are 6'6" and women who have broad shoulders and even women with facial hair and Adam's apples and hands they can palm a basketball with. You cannot look or act like every woman. They don't come out a mold.

So can you pass? If passing means you aren't confronted, yes. If it means someone won't know you are really male, no. It takes a lot of work and usually a fair amount of surgery to look like Talia. But you can look like Julia Childs. She was all woman but didn't fit the criteria that seems to be the epitome here.

The more you worry about "passing" the more you won't. If you have to think about doing something it becomes noticeable. Be you. Be confident. Be relaxed. No one will say anything to you unless they are just rude or drunk. Rudeness you can't do anything about. Drunk is self inflicted. Both are a very small percentage of the population. Probably equal to the number of CD's who "Pass".

:yt:

Feeling good about yourself is usually learned behavior...asking this question is just fueling the fires of insecurity...btw...i have asked this many times LOL..so do what i say, not what i do!!!

[Jodi M]

I would not even venture to guess at a percentage of us that pass.It all depends on the time and the place I guess. I say just dress your best and present yourself in the best feminine manner that you can and enjoy being out in public as the gal that you like to be and people will accept you as what you appear to be.

[Melanie R]

I doubt if more than 5 percent of CD's pass under close scrutiny including myself. I pass more easily when I am with my wife in public as most people think we are sisters. I remember on one casino trip to Reno I was presenting as Melanie and was helping my wife several times cash out her machine. Both my wife and I became acquainted with the change woman who said, "Melanie, let me show you something". She pointed out a crossdresser standing at a machine. I asked if she sees many CD's in the casino. She said that she sees at least 20 every day. I said that she may have seen 21 as I am a CD. She said "no way. I thought you were Peggy's sister". Perhaps she needed a new eye exam. At this time in my life (71 in 2 weeks), I am who I am no matter how I am presenting. Either accept me for who I am or hit the road.

[tamarav]

Who cares?

Half of the women I work with don't pass via our standards. Maybe the standards are simply set too high.

[Sandy Banks]

Now that you mention it, I have noticed some women that really didn't look much like a woman................

[Super Amanda]

So many here are so sensitive to talking about passing, why is that?

I like these kind of discussions, and without them everyone seems to just beats around the bush about the subject, then when it's brought up a bunch of people get mad and say things like "Who cares?". Well, the OP cares, or she would not have posted the thread to begin with, right?

Anyhow, at one time or another, most of us at least think about passing, and I know some obsess over it, which can be bad.

I just don't get the sensitivity about it here of all places, among us that are so alike. It's a valid crossdressing topic that deserves exploration. :2c:

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Maybe the standards are simply set too high.

Why yes, they probably are...by ourselves, personally.

Take moi, in a picture from 03 I think.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3243/2838292351_be56229c73.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/veronicamoonlit/2838292351/)

Some of you are thinking...not bad. But....my goal is to get as close to this, as possible.

(Stizzoli Embellished Sheath from Sak's plus size section http://www.saksfifthavenue.com/main/ProductDetail.jsp?PRODUCT<>prd_id=845524446235289&FOLDER<>folder_id=282574492715637&ASSORTMENT<>ast_id=1408474399545537&bmUID=1265505748096&ev19=3:6

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2803/4336443250_f82f539bb4_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/veronicamoonlit/4336443250/)

Or even this Boss Stretch Cotton dress from Saks which is currently available only in size 2 http://www.saksfifthavenue.com/main/ProductDetail.jsp?PRODUCT<>prd_id=845524446236781&FOLDER<>folder_id=282574492712508&bmUID=1265506674762&ev19=1:19

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4030/4335697395_822108564e_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/veronicamoonlit/4335697395/)

In other words, deep down inside appearance wise, I want to be "perfect". You may have seen my respons in the "If you won the lottery" thread:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2033595&postcount=2

Of course, that's not realistically possible, but that's feelings for you. And yeah, I know I'm comparing myself to airbrushed images of perfection, and I'm not saying anyone else has to be like me. I'm the one setting my standards too high.

Veronica Rogers

[tamarav]

My original reply to this post may have been a bit harse, so I will qualify it.

I obviously care very much if I pass. I work at it everyday and strive to look my best everytime I walk out of the house. I have strained everything I have to get to the point where I can work dressed, walk among any crowd, and generally enjoy a feminine appearance without being overtly criticized.

I only think that most CDs use a mindset that imposes way too harsh a result on themselves without being realistic. We can only look as good as we try, then you simply have to accept it or stay miserable. I spent way too much time criticizing my own looks, and second-guessed what could happen, to the point that I never went outside.

That is in the past, now that I get out everyday, I sometime feel for those that cannot accept their best look or feeling.Wishing you looked better after you have exhausted all your options simply doesn't help.

[Katesback]

Anyone who has the mindset of the elusive "P" word has already failed!


YES YOU FAILED!!! You choose to live your life at the whims of other peoples expectations. Shame on you!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sooty]

I barely pass as human, at least until an appropriate amount of coffee has been consumed.

Pass as female? I really don't care. Just relaxing and having fun.

[msginaadoll]

I think that these passing threads are important because it obviously is on peoples minds. Also new folks come to the forum all the time and they should also be able to express there views. So in my opinion 100% of us pass as crossdressers, tranny's, men who wear womens clothing, closet space challenged, etc whatever u wish to be refered to (sorry not being politically correct) Now how many of us are thought of as female when u see us. It depends on the situation. Are u walking by in a blur in the mall, are u in a crowd with hundreds of others. With passing you never truly know because you are not in the other persons head. So is it not being called sir and being referred to as maam. That would be 1 sir for me and about 10 maams or miss. Does that mean I pass 90% of the time? I mean I am being referred to by a female pronoun(hope thats the proper term) thus i must be passing and everyone else referred to as such is as well. So should we keepp a running tally then? Of course what if people are just being polite and assuming that is what I wish to be referred to as? Its enuff to drive yourself and everyone else crazy but fun to ponder. I guess if i had to give an actual number id say probaly less than 5% of cds would pass. However 100% of you are beautiful in my eyes. And as others have said it is amazing how polite and respectful people are out there at least to me- and from stories I hear to other cds too.

[tricia_uktv]

I saw the most gorgeous girl last week. She was dressed and made-up to perfection but I knew straight away. Every movement, every gesture, everything in her demenour shouted out that she was a guy. Girls grow up with presenting themselves as attractive women. We have to pick it up later and unlearn our masculine traits. Its really, really difficult to unlearn.

I think 5% is optimistic. Sorry girls.

[lavistaa62]

For me passing would be dressing as a woman and not seeming or feeling uncomfortable about it. In fact I'd prefer if my dress didn't particularly occur to me or others.

That we are asking this question speaks to our feminity. While men might compare their accomplishments and envy other's status or possessions few would compare their actual looks to another.

However, it seems to be that comparing appearance and mannerisms to other women is a consummate female activity. My sisters are constantly doing this with nearly every woman they see- all judged in comparison to themselves and the ideal whatever that may be. It seems roughly equivalent to our notion of passing. They are also frequently wondering if so and so is attracted to them- not sure if we do this. So maybe the ultimate in passing is being attractive to straight men. I for one would feel very uncomfortable with that.So in that sense I'd prefer not to pass!

[christinek]

Anyone who has the mindset of the elusive "P" word has already failed!


YES YOU FAILED!!! You choose to live your life at the whims of other peoples expectations. Shame on you!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bravo Kate

[erika130]

Well, to be honest, I'm not sure I'm even qualified to answer this question, as I've seen maybe only 4 CDs in person. But judging by pictures & experiences read, I will have to say less than 10% I think are passable (unfortunately).
And as I've said, that's my judgement based on pictures, which are much easier to pass on


..Also, if we were in say, Thailand or Japan, I think that probably 40-60 percent of guys could pass as women!!

I totally agree!!