Someone asked the percentage of CDs that P_ _ _ So I ask the % of CDs that are TS

[Katesback]

Here is a question for you. What do you think the percent of CD that are really TS is?

I constantly work with trans people. I see a lot of people that identify as CD but after having many talks with them I secretly feel a surprising percent are really TS. Lets face it, many TS people never go through transtion, many are not willing to take the big step, many instead incorporate elements of crossdressing into thier lives.

I really dont have any idea how many CDs are TS but I suspect the percent would be a lot higher than many might initially think.

Katie

[Super Amanda]

IMO, I'd guess around 60-90 percent? And about 10-40 percent in denial! ( JUST KIDDING :devil: )

[Deidra Cowen]

I agree but have no empirical data to back it up with. But sure as heck observe a lot of CDs here in Atlanta that suddenly showup at the clubs for the first time...then in just a few years are FT.

[Karren H]

Since there is no good census data on CD's or TS's then everyones guess is just that... Maybe Obama added that to the 2010 census??

[Samantha43]

My guess is maybe 80% CD and 20% TS. Most CD's are in the closet and live normal lives. No one knows who they are. I really doubt many of them would want to transition.

[msniki48]

I would tend to think that at least 30 to 40 percent of the ladies in here, would actually be happier as women, if all the stars were aligned and there wouldn't be so many hurdles. loss of work putting kids through school, possible loss of family members and friends...all the things we talk about. if everything would remain the same.. i believe alot more of the sisters would transition.

I know i would

just my:2c:

[Wen4cd]

Hold on a second, let me grab my ten-foot pole.

[Nigella]

This would be a difficult one to answer. When does a transgendered person stop being CD and becomes TS?

We may apply our own "rules or measurements" but ultimately is it not the individual who makes the identification?

Without starting a "war" over labels, deciding where people fit on the transgendered spectrum is just putting them into a neat little pigeon hole for ease of reference. (yes I know I have argued this point before).

Just for reference I identify as Transsexual, but just because I identify this way, does it mean that I am? I have just started on the road toward hormones and possible surgery, this means that I will be going to a gender clinic to discuss my future.

Where will I fit on the spectrum if the "specialists" decide I don't satisfy the criteria? I will still identify myself as TS.

Food for thought.

[EnglishRose]

Would probably be a lot lower without the COGIATI ;)

[Joanne f]

I think that there is a very good possibility that there are a lot more towards the TS end of things than are willing to admit to it for as many reasons as those who prefer to stay in the closet , fear of what will happen if found out .

[Super Amanda]

My guess is maybe 80% CD and 20% TS. Most CD's are in the closet and live normal lives. No one knows who they are. I really doubt many of them would want to transition.


Really? I doubt many of them wouldn't leap at the chance if the consequences were, well, inconsequential.

Perhaps fear of acceptance and loss, and refusal to address the reasons behind the behavior are the criteria in which the difference between a crossdresser and transsexual are defined?

In a "perfect" world, you're telling me you wouldn't go all the way if there were no social consequences, or personal loss whatsoever?

[Joanne f]

[QUOTE=Kittykitty;2032398]IMO, a lot of people project their own inner feelings on this.

Which makes it a good possibility why a lot would not even want to answer it on here as it is one thing for your SO to know you CD but TS is a hole new kettle of fish .

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

Perhaps fear of acceptance and loss, and refusal to address the reasons behind the behavior are the criteria in which the difference between a crossdresser and transsexual are defined?

In a "perfect" world, you're telling me you wouldn't go all the way if there were no social consequences, or personal loss whatsoever?

I don't think so, no. Because in a "perfect" world, why would I need to? If there were no social consequences or personal loss, then why would I need to transition? I could just be a guy and dress in whatever feminine styles or masculine styles or whatever places in between I wanted to.

[Loni]

i am a cd,
but it would be intersting to try living as a woman for a mo or two.:heehee:

to have a srs....no, i like my extra bits.

[kimdl93]

Really? I doubt many of them wouldn't leap at the chance if the consequences were, well, inconsequential.

Perhaps fear of acceptance and loss, and refusal to address the reasons behind the behavior are the criteria in which the difference between a crossdresser and transsexual are defined?

In a "perfect" world, you're telling me you wouldn't go all the way if there were no social consequences, or personal loss whatsoever?

If I am totally honest with myself, and lived in that perfect world, I would definitely live as a woman, and very likely take HRT if not the surgical option. While I don't hate my male body, the hypothetical option of trading it in for a female body is very appealing, if only as a fantasy. I don't think that makes me TS, but definitely more in that direction than a guy who wears dresses.

[Sandra]

I think that there is a very good possibility that there are a lot more towards the TS end of things than are willing to admit to it for as many reasons as those who prefer to stay in the closet , fear of what will happen if found out .

I tend to agree with you :) but I also think that the fear element is not the only reason. Take Nigella (please someone take her lol ) she identified as cd for years and it's ony this last year that she's realsied she is TS, and fear had nothing to do with it.

I do think a lot are in denial for a whole lot of reasons.

[Super Amanda]

I don't think so, no. Because in a "perfect" world, why would I need to? If there were no social consequences or personal loss, then why would I need to transition? I could just be a guy and dress in whatever feminine styles or masculine styles or whatever places in between I wanted to.

Touche! Great point. But if I take away the impossibility of a "perfect" world, I could just say

"You're telling me you wouldn't go all the way if there were no social consequences, or personal loss whatsoever?"

Since a truly "perfect" world is fantasy, I was wrong to phrase it that way. However, I think the statement holds up even better without saying "in a perfect world".

For someone like me, I looked at the consequences, which were not as severe as some peoples would be, I admit, as I have a very accepting and supportive circle of family and friends, and decided that transition would not destroy me at all. I had no SO to worry about, no job and therefore no excuses left! I honestly don't know if I could have came to this point if my life was as complex as some others here.

I'm just spouting off, I hope I don't, or haven't offended anyone. Sometimes I forget that I have had it just a tad bit easier than others! (so far!) :) I'm in a talkative mood today, which is rare for me, so I'm taking it out on youse guys!!! :chatterbox:

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

Touche! Great point. But if I take away the impossibility of a "perfect" world, I could just say

"You're telling me you wouldn't go all the way if there were no social consequences, or personal loss whatsoever?"

Since a truly "perfect" world is fantasy, I was wrong to phrase it that way. However, I think the statement holds up even better without saying "in a perfect world".

And I could easily say the same thing holds up for what I said, does it not? I wouldn't want to transition to be female because, I'm not female. As feminine as I can be at times, I'm male, and I like that. I don't think it's easier for me to dress the way I do than it would be if I only went out en femme and such, but I still do it because that's what I prefer. But even a lot of CDs on here who do go all out probably wouldn't want to transition if they had nothing stopping them from doing so. Sometimes someone just likes to crossdress.


For someone like me, I looked at the consequences, which were not as severe as some peoples would be, I admit, as I have a very accepting and supportive circle of family and friends, and decided that transition would not destroy me at all. I had no SO to worry about, no job and therefore no excuses left! I honestly don't know if I could have came to this point if my life was as complex as some others here.

I'm in a similar situation as yours, which is why I'm able to so openly dress the way I do.

[dilane]

Here is a question for you. What do you think the percent of CD that are really TS is?
....
I really dont have any idea how many CDs are TS but I suspect the percent would be a lot higher than many might initially think.

In my experience there are two traits that are fairly predictive, regardless of my assessment of "inner femininity":

1) Pa--ability: the more blendable, the more likely. The most visually outstanding girls I've known have all transitioned.

2) The "who cares what others think" attitude. Only three of my transitioned friends were single, most were married with teen-or-younger children, and they blew up the marriage to transition.

The less physically blessed T-girls I know rarely transition. There's an element of practicality, thank goodness, because it takes a very tough character to successfully transition if she's read left and right.

I think it has very little to do with "inner mental identification" -- some very gung-ho football-fanatic competitive boy-types I know transitioned. And some much more femme personalities I've known haven't.

The sudden realization that "I'm a woman inside" seems to come after they've successfully presented and mixed as women in the outside world, in my experience.

-- Diane

[Faith_G]

The sudden realization that "I'm a woman inside" seems to come after they've successfully presented and mixed as women in the outside world, in my experience.Yes! Experiencing the world as a woman was a defining moment for me. When I went outside and the world did not end, that's when the avalanche started. Note to closeted CD's - if you are afraid you might be TS and don't want to deal with it, don't go outside. :devil:

For someone like me, I looked at the consequences, which were not as severe as some peoples would be, I admit, as I have a very accepting and supportive circle of family and friends, and decided that transition would not destroy me at all. I had no SO to worry about, no job and therefore no excuses left! I honestly don't know if I could have came to this point if my life was as complex as some others here.I ran out of excuses too. :hugs: Single, no kids, renting - the only thing holding me back was fear. I decided to stop letting fear run my life, and I'm all out of excuses.

Oh, my guess on the percentage? Maybe 30% tops. There are a lot of guys who just get a kick out of the clothes.



I think it has very little to do with "inner mental identification" -- some very gung-ho football-fanatic competitive boy-types I know transitioned. And some much more femme personalities I've known haven't.I think you are conflating gender identity and gender expression. You can't infer someone's gender identity from her gender expression.

[Satrana]

In a "perfect" world, you're telling me you wouldn't go all the way if there were no social consequences, or personal loss whatsoever?

I disagree. It is easy to titillate CDs with the notion of full transition but few CDs are at odds with their physical maleness. If the choice was really a reality, once they took the idea seriously they would see a whole range of pitfalls. The excitement and joy they got from CDing would be lost and taken for granted. CDs are aware of the plusses and minuses of both genders. In a perfect world we would aim to take advantage of both gender roles.

So what CDs really want is a body shape and facial features that are androgynous allowing us to operate successfully as a male but also allowing us to easily transform into a beautiful female at the drop of a hat. Why choose the lesser of being either all male or all female when you can access the best of both worlds?

[msniki48]

IMO, a lot of people project their own inner feelings on this.

The question needs to be clarified. Are we talking about the HBS standard? If so, does that scale still hold water? If so, there are 3 types of TS, which are we refering to, or are we addressing all 3?

I would think we are refering to all 3

To me, there are many who desire to dress purely as a sexual diversion , the feel of the clothing the stimulation, and that is fine, but i dont think they want to BE female.. not everyone gets to see that female within...but i think that those that do, would jump at the chance to be that person if there was no stigma affecting their lives in any way. or at least most would be transgenderist...choosing to live as women without changing the body....as again there would be no stigma.

makes you think

[docrobbysherry]

I'll give u MY answer, as soon as I finish counting the number of angels in the head of my pin here! 3,243,786---3,243,787----


I disagree. It is easy to titillate CDs with the notion of full transition but few CDs are at odds with their physical maleness. If the choice was really a reality, once they took the idea seriously they would see a whole range of pitfalls. The excitement and joy they got from CDing would be lost and taken for granted. CDs are aware of the plusses and minuses of both genders. In a perfect world we would aim to take advantage of both gender roles.

So what CDs really want is a body shape and facial features that are androgynous allowing us to operate successfully as a male but also allowing us to easily transform into a beautiful female at the drop of a hat. Why choose the lesser of being either all male or all female when you can access the best of both worlds?

And, no one can say it any better than that!:thumbsup:

[Rachel Morley]

Oh dear .... I sure wished you hadn't of asked me that because ... well ..... lets just say, knowing what I know now, and feeling like I do, if I was totally honest, I'd have to say that I do feel that I am "more than CD" .... am I (technically) a TS? I dunno, maybe ... but there is no way I will act on it because there is way too much to lose that I highly value. I am so deliriously happy in my marriage right now and I don't want that to change ever .... not for anything. But to answer your question, yes I do think that there are others like me who identify as CD but in another time and another place might identify as TS :2c:

[Joanne f]

I tend to agree with you :) but I also think that the fear element is not the only reason. Take Nigella (please someone take her lol ) she identified as cd for years and it's ony this last year that she's realsied she is TS, and fear had nothing to do with it.

I do think a lot are in denial for a whole lot of reasons.

We are taught from the moment that we are born that you are a boy or a girl, male or female, no one ever tells you that there may be other feelings or other options until you are older, so no wonder it is so difficult for some to realise what they are until later in life .
If we could change the attitude of schooling then i am sure it would help a great deal , yes i know they have changed in what is taught about careers but as far as gender and uniform there is still boy and girl.

[Sally24]

I think "active" girls, ones who go out into public often, have a much higher percentage of TS. In talking with many of my friends I find that maybe half would be interested in much more girl time. Whether that means some subtle surgury or fulltime is anyone's guess. I think the more time you spend living as a woman and interacting with others, the more you wish for. I used to be happy being able to go out once a month or less. Now I go out every week or every other weekend!

[WendyH]

We humans are fond of either/or, black/white opposites. I think the choice between CD and TS is a false dichotomy, as is the choice between man/woman and male/female. IMHO, most of us are somewhere in between, but make our choices to conform to one or the other (full-time or part-time) because everyone is more comfortable making things fit into one or the other of those pairs of opposites. I include myself in that. However, although I am genetically "passable" and have had many experiences out in the world as a "woman", I don't feel like I'm a woman, or a man, either, for that matter. I'm something in between. But maybe that's just me. :)

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Here is a question for you. What do you think the percent of CD that are really TS is?

Ahhh, the Proto-TS's...that's what I call them. That depends...online or off, support group or no support group.

In my own experience I'd say about 30% of the crossdressers in the Tri-Ess chapter I was in were really TS's. Most of them had made the decision to not transition for family reasons, a la certain folks here.

Here, the percentage is lower overall, compared to the huge number of members, but around here they tend to post frequently, be insightful and influential and go out & about frequently. In other words, they're more open. They're also more likely to have done some hair removal, to have their ears pierced, to not use wigs, more likely to incorporate some femme elements in their day to day clothing, tweeze their brows, do their nails in "guy" mode, etc. What some call mini-mods.

They also "feel" like women in their thoughts and writings about "this thing of ours".

Since I was one of them...I can spot them "like that" (snaps fingers). One prominent example here was Zenith. I knew she was TS before she realized it herself, and I was so happy when she announced she was transitioning. There are some others here that I would be quite joyful to hear they're transitioning/or have decided they want to and are taking steps to prepare for it.

Veronica Rogers

[SuzanneBender]

Wow Katie tough question and these threads always seem to break down into an us vs. them theme, but somehow this one has not.

As we all know gender sure isn't a bianary issue. Its not either or most of the time its a little bit of both.

I don't think it boils down to if the person wants to transistion or not. I have met many women that for whatever reason feel like they are a woman but will never physically transistion their body or their societal role to match their inner selves. They are happy with where they are and accept the hand they have been dealt. I have heard some of the gals identify as TS and some ID as CD. I think only they can determine, if its possible to determine, which hole their shape best fits.

Then I have met men that just love women's clothing and many things femme. Several including some that are beloved by all on this site attest that they are men and would never give it up they just dig the clothes and being girly every now and then. They proudly, and rightly so, say they are CD.

And then you have the hardcore TS's. We know we are female in soul and mind but not body and we want everything to match. Some try to stay in the first group, but happiness isn't found there for them no matter how hard they try.

Where am I? Well I am going to tell you I am Transgendered and let you figure it out from there. Right now I feel like a gender mutt hoping one day to be purebred.

Now to answer your question....

All you guys that like being girls line up over here.

All you girls that are stuck being guys line up over here.

One, two, three, four, five, six.

I will have to get back with you in a day or so.

[kym]

one thing that has popped into my mind with this thread is how many got caught in the pink fog and transitioned? I know there a lot more crossdressers out there than meets the eye and if i had to make an educated guess as to the percentage of TS individuals it would be around 60%. I know from my experience from working with the public on a regular basis that people are simply people now matter what.

[TGMarla]

What percentage are actually TS? Very hard to say. To me, whether or not one is really transexual has little to do with whether or not they actually transition. It's more of an assessment of how one feels on the inside. I can only speak for myself. I think I'm more transexual than I'd like to admit. I know I'd rather be female than male, but I also know that the road through transition is one I have opted to not take. I will remain as I am, but I also know that the longing to actually be female really doesn't go away.

Sigh.

[sherri52]

Of those on this site I would say 40% are TS. There are alot od CD's so far in the closet that they haven't even visited the site. If one was to guess how many CDs there are then we could get a more accurate [U]guess[U].:doh:

[tamarav]

Sheesh, I am even more confused now. Does this mean I need to change my label?

[SuzanneBender]

20,210, 20,211, 20,213, 20,214....Hey you get back in line you are going to make me loose count!

Hang in there I am almost done with the TS line. I will have an answer soon. :heehee:

[Hali]

I think that there is a very good possibility that there are a lot more towards the TS end of things than are willing to admit to it for as many reasons as those who prefer to stay in the closet , fear of what will happen if found out .

From the way most CDs behave it looks as if some dont even know they are TS. Recently my girlfriend is drumming into my ears issues of transitioning or leaving as a woman for like a month and see what happens cos she now believes that am a TS.

[Satrana]

Methinks there is a lot of wishful thinking going on here. Numerous studies around the world estimate TS to be somewhere between 1 in 30,000 and 1 in 10,000. In comparison a conservative measure of CDs is 1 in 100 maybe as high as 1 in in 20. So even in the best case scenario there are 100 CDs for every TS. The membership count of this forum would seemingly back up that ratio. Dream on.:daydreaming:

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

Methinks there is a lot of wishful thinking going on here. Numerous studies around the world estimate TS to be somewhere between 1 in 30,000 and 1 in 10,000. In comparison a conservative measure of CDs is 1 in 100 maybe as high as 1 in in 20. So even in the best case scenario there are 100 CDs for every TS. The membership count of this forum would seemingly back up that ratio. Dream on.:daydreaming:

I think the point they're making is that many of those 99 other CDs are really TS but in denial about it. There's probably some truth to that seeing as so many resist my style of dressing because it doesn't feel right to them if they aren't presenting as women.

[Satrana]

I think the point they're making is that many of those 99 other CDs are really TS but in denial about it.

Still don't buy it. Nearly all CDs dream of transitioning and living as a women. It is part and parcel of the closeted lifestyle we all have to pass through. So transitioning is a highly attractive proposition and when some get comfortable with CDing the option to go full time opens up.

Personally I do not see changing gender as a big deal once you grasp what gender actually is. To me this is no different than changing professions or living in another country. It is a major lifestyle decision on what is best for you.

If the question was discussing those who are comfortable and open about CDing then consider going full time, then yes it is clear that the attractiveness of the idea does win over quite a few. At this moment in time though most CDs never reach that stage but that is changing fairly quickly.