Something my kids should consider normal?

[KimberlyJo]

I'm hoping that all you wonderful people in this community can help to offer some insight if not guidance on this issue that has been perplexing my mind in regards to my cding.

There's no specific question per se, but more of a situation that I'm hoping for some insights on.

I am a Father of three very wonderful children all of whom are under the age of 7. My oldest is a boy age 6 (almost 7 really), middle is also a boy age 3 and my youngest is a girl pretty much brand spanky new at the age of 4 mos (she's absolutely perfect by the way!). I have a solid and happy relationship with both of my boys and my wife is pretty accepting of my dressing.

I've been gender blending my dressing habits around the house pretty habitually for several months now. I started off just wearing femme pants and even my oldest never batted an eye (he's actually rather observant normally). From there I've mixed in thigh high pink argyle socks (the ones in my avi) under my pants and also very feminine tops from time to time. Occassionally I'll get fully femmed with light makeup and full feminie attire (always pants, never dresses or skirts). My hair is shoulder length in the back and to my chin on the sides and I'll usually put on a headband or a hair wrap or pull it back into a ponytail. A few times, I've even put in low pig tails (this generated a hearty laugh from my oldest) which makes me look pretty girly when I'm fully dressed. I also paint my toenails and the kids are well aware of this as well. (Twice the youngest boy has requested that I paint his also). Our older son knows this is not "normal" behavior for boys/men and finds it hilarious when I wear pink nail polish. Other colors don't generate much of a reaction.

Now my oldest is pretty aware of what are considered girl clothes and what are ok for boys to wear. He's asked general questions of me before like "What are you wearing?" in regards to one of my more feminine tops. I joked with him and told him it was called a shirt ;) Our relationship has not changed a bit since my dressing habits have changed. I keep wanting to broach the subject with him and explain it, but then I thought maybe I ought to just wait until he brings it up. I am only slightly concerned that he may talk to someone else about it before he talks to me.

Another important thing to note is that he is homeschooled, so I have no worries that he will out me to his teacher or anything, because that's ME! :lol:

I am concerned that I may be having an effect on my youngest son's sense of gender and I don't know how I feel about that. He's still in a very maliable stage of development and I'm just not sure how my cding will affect him. I was dressed and feeling very femme yesterday and while I was serving the kids lunch he called me mommy-daddy. I don't know if it was just a slip or if his perception of me is actually starting to change. He's a very sweet and sensitive boy, but he can also be rough and tumble like any other boy. He reminds me very much of myself actually, we call him my little clone.

So yeah, that's basically the situation. I'm sorry if I wasn't very eloquent or clear. I'd really like to hear other's perceptions on my particular situation, especially from those of you who have kids and are open about it to them. I want my kids to know about and accept this part of me so I figure the younger they are introduced to it the more likely they are to be able to consider it normal.

Thanks for reading :) :love:

[Super Amanda]

My son is six, in public Kindergarten, and has known about me for as long as he can remember (a couple years back.. :) )

I am the sole caretaker, but his mom is in his life. He has never shown a single sign that he likes anything female. He is at a typical point where nearly all "girl stuff sucks".

Being as close as I am to him, deciding to transition, and at first simply dress up around him, was one of the hardest decisions I have ever had to make. I could not face the possibility of losing him by coming out on him when he is older, so I knew that the best thing for both of us was for me to be myself, to preserve my mental state, and to preserve my relationship with my son. He accepts me as normal, since society has not had a chance to influence him. In reality, he has been the most accepting person of all. I get to explain whats happening to me in ways he can understand, and he really seems to get it. If you ask him about me, he'll say "My dad was born a boy, but in his heart and brain he is a girl, so the doctors are giving him medicine to help him change more into what a girl looks like, so he won't be sad all the time"

No doubt we face challenges ahead, but I know I'm doing the best I can do for both of us.

BTW, my son is one of the smartest in his class, and is an excellent reader and great at math.

[JustWendy]

KimberlyJo, I'm so glad you started this discussion. I can't offer any advice or opinion, but I'm going to be very interested in what others have to say on the topic of sharing our femnine side with our children. My older daughter will be coming to live with me at the end of the school year. She'll be almost 15 by then. While she and her mother love each other, they don't get along when they're living under the same roof. I want to be honest with my daughter, and I don't want her to accidentally find out about Wendy, but teenage girls already have so many issues to deal with, I don't want to make things harder for her. I'm not concerned about her telling friends, teachers, etc. I just don't want to be guilty of adding to her struggles as she tries to navigate these teenage years. Anyway, thanks for raising the topic of children and letting them see us as we truely are.

Wendy:hugs:

[StaceyJane]

My three daughters know and are very accepting. My youngest (19yr) wrote me a wonderful letter telling me how much she loves me and accepts me.
she even gave me one of her skirts.
She has moved out of state but we still talk on the phone about typical father -daughter stuff. clothes and makeup!

[JustWendy]

She has moved out of state but we still talk on the phone about typical father -daughter stuff. clothes and makeup!

What a great line, Stacey. It's wonderful to hear that you have been able to maintain a great relationship with your daughters.

Wendy

[kimdl93]

I have sons and step daughters - all out of the house, so I'm not concerned about adversely affecting their development by dressing. Probably damaged them enough being a regular parent!

Here's that old nature/nuture thing again. I personally feel that the desire to dress is a developmental characteristic determined in the womb. While a child may see a parent living in an unconventional gender role, I seriously doubt that the child would "pick up" the behavior. they just might learn to be a bit more open-minded as adults.

[KimberlyJo]

Probably damaged them enough being a regular parent!

Lol, yeah I hear you on that one.


They just might learn to be a bit more open-minded as adults.

That's honestly my hope, in the end I hope this causes them to be more accepting of any lifestyle (not just mine) that falls outside of the "norm" whether it be gay, lesbian, bi, trans, queer, people who like to wear lycra ( :lol: ) or what have you.

Thanks so much for all your comments, keep em coming! :D

[Angie G]

If your son is going to dress it something inside of him not just what he has seen you do.And if he does will it be the end of the world. I think not with a dad like you.:hugs:
Angie

[Bethany38]

Kimberly,
My Son whom is thirteen has known since last summer. He is very cool about it. I feel that he already has an head-start on viewing the world more openly. My daughter I have not told yet, The main reason is she lives in another state w/her husband and two sons. This is really something I feel needs to bee done face to face. I do feel she will be O.K. with it. I just would rather not talk this one out over the phone.

Kimberly,
I feel your choice of telling them young is the right one. I know tons of people would disagree with me, but I feel that if we want our children to really be accepting of all peoples they have to be taught early. On that note I will stop and say good day!

[SuzanneBender]

Kimberly,

I think you are doing great. Its important that our children understand that the lines of the gender box are only drawn on the ground, are really blurry and easy to step over as you wish anymore.

I am pretty familiar with this parenting gig. I have four ranging from 20 year old to a highly energetic and imaginative 8 year old. Two boys two girls.

I am out to only my oldest who has accepted it very well. I am posting a link to the thread where I shared a conversation we had during her 20th birthday about me. http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124205 Our relationship is very tight and when I came out to her she just looked at me and said that explains it. She asked to see a picture of me. I showed her she giggled said I look like her grandma and that was it.

I am not out to my younger kids. However, I am probably one of the most metro guys going anymore. They don't bat an eye and neither do their friends. My kids see me in both roles a lot. I can be teaching a merit badge for scouts one night and a fixing my daughters hair for dance the next. Kids are just happy to have parents that love them and it sounds like yours are very loved!

[Angelofsomekind]

Grrrr. . . I just wrote out a big responce to this and my computer lost the internet connection right when I tried to post it. I'll wait till I get home to make sure it doesn't happen again!

[Plasibeau]

Keep in mind that most children have a solid sense of what their gender is by the time they are four or five. The only condition to that being if the child is transgendered, usually.

I have a five y/old boy who I have zero concern for confusion. I've dressed around him since birth. He knows that when I'm dressed femme I'm not going to want to wrestle or be rough and tumble. So he'll be quick to grab a board game. When in drab you can often find us on the front lawn sword fighting with sticks! And through no guidance from me or his mother he even has given me a different name when I'm dressed.

I wouldn't worry too much about your children, their youngs brains are at the most maliable point they ever will be and all we are doing is teaching them that people are different. And they're less likely to have issues with anything to do with alternative lifestyles in the future. That's not a bad thing is it?

[Byanca]

I suppose things start with children. So if you learn your kids that this is okay, then you will help change society for future generations.

And imo healthy for the kids worldview.

Personally I don't think it will change anything. They will identify with who they will identify due to physical reasons. The only thing you can do is teach. The nose will grow into a particular way no matter what.

[KimberlyJo]

If your son is going to dress it something inside of him not just what he has seen you do.And if he does will it be the end of the world. I think not with a dad like you.:hugs:
Angie

Thanks so much for the compliment! :o


Keep in mind that most children have a solid sense of what their gender is by the time they are four or five. The only condition to that being if the child is transgendered, usually.

I have a five y/old boy who I have zero concern for confusion. I've dressed around him since birth. He knows that when I'm dressed femme I'm not going to want to wrestle or be rough and tumble. So he'll be quick to grab a board game. When in drab you can often find us on the front lawn sword fighting with sticks! And through no guidance from me or his mother he even has given me a different name when I'm dressed.

I wouldn't worry too much about your children, their youngs brains are at the most maliable point they ever will be and all we are doing is teaching them that people are different. And they're less likely to have issues with anything to do with alternative lifestyles in the future. That's not a bad thing is it?

It's not a bad thing at all, in fact it's something that I truly hope to instill in all my children. I guess so long as I am confident in myself, the gender thing just plain won't matter. He'll understand that his Daddy is "different" but that is an ok thing to be. Your story gives me much hope in my own life Plasibeau, thanks so much for sharing it! :hugs:


I suppose things start with children. So if you learn your kids that this is okay, then you will help change society for future generations.

And imo healthy for the kids worldview.

Personally I don't think it will change anything. They will identify with who they will identify due to physical reasons. The only thing you can do is teach. The nose will grow into a particular way no matter what.

Well then, here's to a better future society! :drink:

[giuseppina]

Hello KimberlyJo,

Children will adapt to the situation in which they find themselves. The problems that arise are often those rooted in prejudice and intolerance of others. These are both learned behaviors. Unfortunately, they are not easy to unlearn. :sad:

You are doing an excellent job of teaching your children about tolerance for diversity. :)

A gender counsellor should be able to resolve some if not all of your concerns about your children. Some may resolve themselves with no intervention.

[sherri52]

I have 8 children, 6 with my first wife. All of my children know now and have for years but as they were growing up only one son and my two daughters knew. My wife was unaccepting but both my daughters wanted to dress me when the wife was out. My son wasn't accepting but rather more of a "I don't want to see". later my other son found out and the next in line hated the thought and still does today 20 yrs later. I didn't dress partially then as I do now. Either I got dressed or I was in drab. My kids went to public school if they told the others in class they would have picked on them because thier dad is a sissy.

[Wen4cd]

My daughter is helping us pack for a move right now, as we;re snowed in. I'm going through drawers cleaning and organizing stiff, and she's helping me.

Out of one drawer comes a bottle of liquid eyeliner, a piar of eyelashes with red glitter stripes, two lipsticks, and a thing of concealer.

"Put that in daddy's makeup box, over in my dress-up room, will you?"

"Ok."

She doesn't care. She loves dressing up in costumes, and pretending she's everything from a puppy to a pirate, and it would be weird and sad, to her, for someone not to enjoy it.

Still, she doesn't have to interact with me dressed, as of yet. But she's not one to mind, or be weirded out my much.

[lavistaa62]

My mom came out to me when I was young- no big deal now but this was the late 60s. Growing up, it never really occurred to me that it was in anyway "bad" or embarrassing. Yes- I got my share of teasing over it but no more than other kids about whatever was different about them. It's the parents, not the kids who were the problem.

My mom eventually developed a group of friends whom she's with to this day. I grew up totally accepting of who she was and her lifestyle. I'm sure it affected me as it would be foolish to deny a parent's lifestyle doesn't impact a child. However, in my opinion that impact was entirely positive as I was able to grow up more accepting not only of her lifestyle but others.

I think what we're talking about is the first steps toward societal change. CD today is no more out there than a gay teacher was in the 60s. She has no acceptance problems now and her kids, and my friends never thought twice about it. As we rear our children and they are exposed to our lifestyle so too hopefully will they and their children be less judgmental and more accepting than we are able to be.

My daughter even brought this up the other day. She's been dating a bi-racial/sexual guy and had a knock down drag out with her mom (my ex) when she made and extremely bigoted comment and essentially forbade her from seeing the guy. Good luck with that mom- you aren't giving her any financial support and she's away at college:) I was very proud of her for standing her ground and making her own decisions.

The caring and thoughtful discussion here I think will spill over into our kids. Yep- they may take some ribbing over their "sissy dad" or whatever and I can pretty much guarantee some parents will take issue but that, dear friends, is enlightening too and our kids will perceive that as well.

Who can tell me why I'm always so long winded?

[JustWendy]

Who can tell me why I'm always so long winded?

El Nino :). No seriously, I think you told your experience beautifully!

[Angelofsomekind]

I actually have brought this up in several different forums. I'm supprised I didn't think to do it here since my wife and I have talked about this.

Ok, my wife and I plan on having kids, but we don't have any yet, so what actually happens may be totally different from what we plan. But, we plan on letting our kid/kids know right from the begining. If it makes our kids feel like they should dress to, so be it, but we will let them know that they have to be who they are, if that mean they dress or not, we would never feel dissapointed. I don't know if my dressing would make them dress, but if that was the case, why did I start dressing when I never saw my father dress? Even when I am in drab, I have a totally different style than my father also. I think this would just let them know that it doesn't matter what a person wears, it's who they are inside that counts.

I do worry that they may tell someone since I am not out to most people. However I also realize that if I was totally outted, my life wouldn't really change any. I may lose contact with some people who can't accept me, but that isn't really a bad thing (In fact things would probably be easier for us). I know my family would be ok with it, and I know I wouldn't have any issues at work with it. It may cause some issues for my kid, but like someone else mentioned, kids have issues anyway. In time that passes and the bond between us will be just as strong. My wife says she would explain it as : We all go to the bathroom, it's natural, but we don't tell other people about it. Some things other people don't need to know, and other things, people don't want to know.

Not telling our kid I feel could bring issues later on when he/she does find out. I want my child to know who I am! I want him/her to know that they don't need to be afraid to show me or my wife or whoever who they really are no matter what other people may think. I don't want my kid to find out when they are 20 and totally reject me and feel like they never really knew who their father was. I know there is a good chance that they would still accept me, but I would rather not have to take any risk with that.

This is the second time I'm writing this, so I hope I remembered everything, if not I'll try to add to it.

If I do have a boy, I always thought it would be interesting to keep a dress in his closet, or a pair of panties in his dresser, just to see if he ever chose to wear them.

[Nigella23]

KimberleyJo, you sound like a wonderful, caring, sensitive parent. As others have posted, the future of society depends upon the education of our children in tolerance and diversity.

[gabimartini]

Hi Kimberly,

Read your post and was thinking long and hard about it. I don't have kids, so it's hard for me to say something out of experience. I wanted to help but feel I'm a little out of my league here. So, I just want to say that I empathize and wish you good luck!

[Super Amanda]

I don't want my kid to find out when they are 20 and totally reject me and feel like they never really knew who their father was. I know there is a good chance that they would still accept me, but I would rather not have to take any risk with that.



Yes! Well said.

[AmandaM]

<<I am concerned that I may be having an effect on my youngest son's sense of gender and I don't know how I feel about that.>>

I would err a little on the side of caution here. It's not that there is anything wrong the way you are, but young kids are impressionable. African militias like to recruit boys because you can teach men how to fight, but you can't get them to like it. It has been said that with indoctrination, fully 50% of humans can be "taught" to be gay. Probably can teach them anything with the appropriate indoctrination. So, don't hide what you are from your kids, but try not to cross the line that says dad's a crossdresser, so you should be too. Knowing where that line is, is up to you to discover.

For myself, I don't do it in front of the kids, but I don't hide my stuff either. If they figure it out, they figure it out. But I do talk to them about transgendered people on TV, to make sure the kids don't think poorly of them.

[Super Amanda]

It has been said that with indoctrination, fully 50% of humans can be "taught" to be gay.

That has been said? Really? I've never heard that. What do you mean by indoctrination? Raping a young kid? Or just telling them it's ok? How come kids that grow up with gay dads don't usually end up becoming gay?

If what you say is true, could you link me to that info?




young kids are impressionable.

They very much are...all the more reason to not hide something they will resent you for later, and I know you said don't hide it, but if one somehow catches you all dressed up one day, how are they going to take it? Especially if they are older?


BTW...nice name! :)

[KimberlyJo]

My wife says she would explain it as : We all go to the bathroom, it's natural, but we don't tell other people about it. Some things other people don't need to know, and other things, people don't want to know.

Except 3 year olds talk about going to the bathroom...a lot! LOL, potty training and all. No but seriously it sounds like your wife is going to be a great mom, and I'm sure you'll be a wonderful dad!



Not telling our kid I feel could bring issues later on when he/she does find out. I want my child to know who I am! I want him/her to know that they don't need to be afraid to show me or my wife or whoever who they really are no matter what other people may think. I don't want my kid to find out when they are 20 and totally reject me and feel like they never really knew who their father was. I know there is a good chance that they would still accept me, but I would rather not have to take any risk with that.

I have to agree, which is why I am being so open about it with them in the first place. I often regret that I started late with my oldest while at the same time wondering if I am doing the right thing...




If I do have a boy, I always thought it would be interesting to keep a dress in his closet, or a pair of panties in his dresser, just to see if he ever chose to wear them.

Now now, no conducting sociological experiments on your children! ;)




You are doing an excellent job of teaching your children about tolerance for diversity. :)

A gender counsellor should be able to resolve some if not all of your concerns about your children. Some may resolve themselves with no intervention.

Thank you and I am actually trying to set up some sessions with a counselor. Insurance issues might put a wrench in the works though.




So, don't hide what you are from your kids, but try not to cross the line that says dad's a crossdresser, so you should be too. Knowing where that line is, is up to you to discover.


OMG no of course not, I don't push any of my beliefs intentionally on my children. I believe it's up to each individual to determine their path in life. I want my kids to be who they are not what I am.

[Satrana]

I am concerned that I may be having an effect on my youngest son's sense of gender and I don't know how I feel about that. He's still in a very maliable stage of development and I'm just not sure how my cding will affect him.

Now that is a classic sign of CD guilt in its purist form. The underlying issue here is the unshakable idea that there is something weird-perverted-unnatural about CDing which kids should not be exposed to. That it is better to protect them by ensuring they believe only in gender stereotypes than expose them to the truth about gender.

Come on. Don't you want your children to grow up to be the best possible persons - intelligent, thoughtful, non-judgmental? Why are you scared of doing the right thing?

Your feelings here are directly correlated to the debate about whether children should be raised by homosexuals. Well luckily thousands have been so we have excellent data to examine. These kids are NOT influenced by their homosexual parents. It does not make them gay nor are they confused about sexuality. They grow up to be perfectly normal well adjusted adults.

I think you are doing something wrong though. Kids may lack interpretative skills but they are not stupid. They see what you are doing and want to understand. By making jokes and excuses you are sending them a signal that there is something wrong with you. You need to stop that and begin explaining to them why you are CDing and telling them about the spectrum of gender and human behaviors. Obviously the explanations need to be simplified so they can grasp the idea but do not shy away from the core truth.

Kids love unconditionally. So long as you love them back unconditionally they will take these things in their stride. And they will be better for it. The more you shield children from reality the more they will deny reality when they grow up.

[KimberlyJo]

Now this is the kind of unabashed constructive criticism I had hoped for and although it hurts to hear, I can't deny its truth...but I can try ;)


Now that is a classic sign of CD guilt in its purist form. The underlying issue here is the unshakable idea that there is something weird-perverted-unnatural about CDing which kids should not be exposed to. That it is better to protect them by ensuring they believe only in gender stereotypes than expose them to the truth about gender.

Come on. Don't you want your children to grow up to be the best possible persons - intelligent, thoughtful, non-judgmental? Why are you scared of doing the right thing?

No really, tell me how you really feel, don't hold back...I can take it. :bigsmack::cry::kickbutt:



Your feelings here are directly correlated to the debate about whether children should be raised by homosexuals. Well luckily thousands have been so we have excellent data to examine. These kids are NOT influenced by their homosexual parents. It does not make them gay nor are they confused about sexuality. They grow up to be perfectly normal well adjusted adults.


We do have tons of great data that kids are not influenced by their parents sexual orientation. But as I am sure you know, gender and sexuality are not the same thing. And we don't have loads of data about the effects of gender blurring on a child's developing mind. We know that sexuality is not a product of social conditioning, but to at least SOME extent, gender roles are. I know there are all kinds of new data coming out linking gender to physiological attributes in the brain and what-not but this research is still new and tentative.

But you're probably right, the fact is it's guilt that is making me wish-wash about expressing my gender difference to my kids.

I need to fully embrace my belief that the stereotypical gender roles are outdated and inaccurate and let go of all the fear that what I am doing is somehow wrong. Thanks. :hugs:



I think you are doing something wrong though. Kids may lack interpretative skills but they are not stupid. They see what you are doing and want to understand. By making jokes and excuses you are sending them a signal that there is something wrong with you. You need to stop that and begin explaining to them why you are CDing and telling them about the spectrum of gender and human behaviors. Obviously the explanations need to be simplified so they can grasp the idea but do not shy away from the core truth.


I know. I do. I just haven't figured out a way to explain it to him so that he can understand. Part of the reason why I started this thread. So you've told me I need to, any ideas on how to actually go about doing that?



Kids love unconditionally. So long as you love them back unconditionally they will take these things in their stride. And they will be better for it. The more you shield children from reality the more they will deny reality when they grow up.

Well said, I'd like to meet your kids :) :love:

[Angelofsomekind]

Now now, no conducting sociological experiments on your children! ;). Awwww . . .

[Nicole Erin]

My teenage son knows I dress and has seen it and all that but no I don't think it influences or ruins his masculinity.

Kids are people too. They tend to grow up to be adults and have their own habits and personalities.

I do think having a TG parent would maybe cause a kid to be a little more open minded about things.


Grrrr. . . I just wrote out a big responce to this and my computer lost the internet connection right when I tried to post it. I'll wait till I get home to make sure it doesn't happen again!

this site has been acting kind of strange the past few days, it probably wasn't on your end.

[Super Amanda]

I know. I do. I just haven't figured out a way to explain it to him so that he can understand. Part of the reason why I started this thread. So you've told me I need to, any ideas on how to actually go about doing that?

Of course. Tell him "Some boys, not all, and not very many,like to wear girls clothes sometimes. You don't have to do it, you can dress any way you like in this home, and I love you no matter what clothes you wear."

Why does it have to be more complex than that? He'll have questions for you, and over time as he gets older, you can elaborate more on how you feel.

One thing also, no one can tell you you're doing something "wrong" raising your child, unless harm is coming to them, so don't worry too much, after all, just having both parents present is a victory in parenting these days, and you obviously love your kids with all your heart, which also is key! :)

[Dutchess]

Hi KimberlyJo,,, GG here ,,

Please if you have a moment go over some of my posts about our wacky youngest daughter .Some threads I have started have to do with her. we always get a lot of views whenever she is brought up here on a thread,,people would like to know how different kids handle this and I understand , we just recently had an hilarious incident involving her . She is refreshing and alot like several others kids here but also alot like Wednesday Addams as I have stated before , so that may help too ,,anyway, check some of my posts when you can....

:love::love:
Dutchess

[KarenHiller]

My mom came out to me when I was young- no big deal now but this was the late 60s. Growing up, it never really occurred to me that it was in anyway "bad" or embarrassing. Yes- I got my share of teasing over it but no more than other kids about whatever was different about them. It's the parents, not the kids who were the problem.

My mom eventually developed a group of friends whom she's with to this day. I grew up totally accepting of who she was and her lifestyle. I'm sure it affected me as it would be foolish to deny a parent's lifestyle doesn't impact a child. However, in my opinion that impact was entirely positive as I was able to grow up more accepting not only of her lifestyle but others.

I think what we're talking about is the first steps toward societal change. CD today is no more out there than a gay teacher was in the 60s. She has no acceptance problems now and her kids, and my friends never thought twice about it. As we rear our children and they are exposed to our lifestyle so too hopefully will they and their children be less judgmental and more accepting than we are able to be.

My daughter even brought this up the other day. She's been dating a bi-racial/sexual guy and had a knock down drag out with her mom (my ex) when she made and extremely bigoted comment and essentially forbade her from seeing the guy. Good luck with that mom- you aren't giving her any financial support and she's away at college:) I was very proud of her for standing her ground and making her own decisions.

The caring and thoughtful discussion here I think will spill over into our kids. Yep- they may take some ribbing over their "sissy dad" or whatever and I can pretty much guarantee some parents will take issue but that, dear friends, is enlightening too and our kids will perceive that as well.

Who can tell me why I'm always so long winded?


I think it'd because you have a lot of very well thought out things to say, and I for one, love reading your posts. Thanks for sharing. :hugs:

Karen

[DiannaRose]

One of my wife's fears right now is that our kids (two of them-15 and 9) will find out about me. I don't dress around them (or my wife, for that matter), and don't plan to...she knows this, but her anxiety always brings her back to this "worst-case" scenario. Her "worst-case", or course, not mine.

Interestingly enough, my daughter (the 9 yr old), is already showing signs that she *could* accept it. Here's an example of some of the things she does: last year she took a coloring picture of the little drummer boy, gave him long hair and a purple hair bow, drew a skirt on him, and suddenly it as the little drummer girl. She puts her Barbie dresses on my Star Wars action figures--last weekend my wife commented on it (not with favor), and I said 'Well, we just need to get their dresses in the next size up." She didn't like that.

But bless my daughter's tiny little mind, I think she gets gender-blurriness.

My wife, currently figuring out her own sexuality, regularly lets our daughter know it's okay to be gay/bi/whatever...but the only letter of the alphabet she refuses to talk or hint about with her is--you guessed it--"T". I *try* to fill that gap, but it's hard when my wife blocks it so fiercely.

Personally, I think it's cool that you're raising your kids to accept this side of you, Kimi! They may take some guff about it in some social situations as they grow, but their minds will be open! It's a great gift you're giving them, I say. God bless you!

[AmandaM]

That has been said? Really? I've never heard that. What do you mean by indoctrination? Raping a young kid? Or just telling them it's ok? How come kids that grow up with gay dads don't usually end up becoming gay?

If what you say is true, could you link me to that info?

They very much are...all the more reason to not hide something they will resent you for later, and I know you said don't hide it, but if one somehow catches you all dressed up one day, how are they going to take it? Especially if they are older?
BTW...nice name! :)

Read it somewhere. Can't remember where. Kids can be coerced moreso than older folks. Same thing with turning kids into killers or Republicans or Democrats. We should all strive to not cookie-cutter our kids. The point is, to not let your crossdressing behavior become the "in thing" to do and thereby developing a habit in your kids that they aren't naturally inclined to. There is another thread about fetishes that talks about how to break a fetish. The fetish in this context is a learned behavior and the theory is that it can be unlearned. Until we know for sure how all this works, it's best not to over-emphasize something as personal as crossdressing to kids. Not saying they'll pick it up, but we don't know if they will or not.

[Rogina B]

The Duchess has an 8 yr old daughter that is ok with it and we do as well.Her only comment lately is"dad sure has lots of costumes!" Most of the time Dad being dressed is no big deal as I have instilled in her that I am her dad always...Seems to be working.:2c:

[Alice Torn]

I have never had kids, but have two cats. When all dressed up, my big grey cat seems to be even more under foot,, hounding me, meowing for more food or treats, than usual! In a reverse situation, I may be having to move 2000 miles, in with my dad again. It will be me having to live like a teen under his roof again! Not going to be fun. Hopefully, i won't try to dress there, at all! It could be he has fetishes, too, and likely!Anyone who is working at being a noble parent these days, has my respect. I am not sure i could do it. I still need to date a woman first! Cats for now!

[Fab Karen]

We do have tons of great data that kids are not influenced by their parents sexual orientation. But as I am sure you know, gender and sexuality are not the same thing. And we don't have loads of data about the effects of gender blurring on a child's developing mind. We know that sexuality is not a product of social conditioning, but to at least SOME extent, gender roles are. I know there are all kinds of new data coming out linking gender to physiological attributes in the brain and what-not but this research is still new.

But you're probably right, the fact is it's guilt that is making me wishy-washy about expressing my gender difference to my kids.

I need to fully embrace that the stereotypical gender roles are outdated and inaccurate and let go of all the fear that what I am doing is somehow wrong. Thanks. :hugs:
( edited to crystallize the thoughts )
Boys raised solely by a single woman do not become more feminine because of it.
The world is not black-and-white. Variety is what gives us the history of being human. And these subjects aren't new if you look through history awhile.
"All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players."

[Satrana]

Now this is the kind of unabashed constructive criticism I had hoped for You can rely on me to be unabashful:devil:


And we don't have loads of data about the effects of gender blurring on a child's developing mind. Actually you are completely wrong. Ahem....the women's movement. Where is all the damage from women abandoning their traditional role and taking on male roles, male behaviors and, yes you know its coming, male clothes. If 50% of the population has already been experimenting with gender blurring for the past five decades then I think we can safely assume children are not as vulnerable as we fear.

Look at all the other predictions of social disaster arising from children watching violent moves and playing video games
that were doomsday scenarios in the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, 2000s. For some strange reason the collapse of society due to the damage inflicted on our children never seems to materialize....





So you've told me I need to, any ideas on how to actually go about doing that? What! do I have to do all the work? Aren't you the teacher!

Personally the way I do it is to expose your children to as much variation as possible. Teach them about all the amazing differences in world cultures taking note of the wide differences in behaviors so they understand that we all come in all sizes and colors. Then your next step is to make them understand that everyone wants the same things in life whether you are an Eskimo or an African bushman. We are all the same underneath. If you know friends or family who look or behave differently from norm then get your children to spend time with them so they observe superficial differences does not alter the fact that we are just the same people with the same dreams and desires. After you have laid out this groundwork, explaining your own gender variation will be easy for them to grasp.

[Satrana]

Until we know for sure how all this works, it's best not to over-emphasize something as personal as crossdressing to kids. Not saying they'll pick it up, but we don't know if they will or not. Why? Is there some wrong with crossdressing? Will a boy be psychologically damaged if he puts on a dress? In previous generations, were girls damaged when they saw their mothers wearing pants and copied them?

Is it possible for us to stop thinking that crossdressing is an abnormal behavior that children need to be shielded from? Can we break this distasteful link and not pass on our guilt and shame to the next generation? :hugs:

[Joanne f]

We hear it so much about how honest we should be when it comes to telling our wife`s/so yet there is very little said about how honest we should be towards our children as there is always this "but it is to protect them " , protect them from what "being open and honest".
If we really think that there is nothing wrong or immoral with it and we would like society to get use to it then maybe we should consider that our children will be part of society so it would be normal for them to see it . (i know if only it was that easy).

[Kaitlyn Michele]

There is nothing wrong with crossdressing.

There is no meaningful evidence that your dressing will cause your children to be crossdressers (outside of churches, and despite some idiotic statements here)

That all being said...I would ask you to consider that the mere fact you are asking this question highlights the difficulty and subtlety of the issue..

Your children are your life, and casually saying there is nothing wrong with it or kids adapt, is lazy parenting.

You can't just breezily assume that your kids will be fine and will learn tolerance...it just doesnt work that way for kids...

So when you ask the question to the group, thiink about what are you really worried about? and then go be a great parent with the answer to that question in mind.

I'm not trying to be difficult..just making a point

some folks will say you are a "guilty cd'er" if you don't tell them, or hide this from them...but its not so simpple in my opinion...some people hide their own guilt behind a wall of "**** em's"...its not about guilt...its about making sure your kids have the very best and most loving house to grow up in..and it sure seems like you are providing that..there is also an argument that you should not tell them, its not their business etc...it isnt a moral arguement...its a what's best for your kids argument...

that all being said, you clearly will end up telling them if being a crossdresser is a big part of your life style...but make sure you are prepared for lots of different and surprising outcomes...my 2 kids have reacted totally differently than I expected..it is about a year now, (they are 13 and 15--a very difficult time)..

without me even knowing..my 15 year old has finally admitted her year long struggle...and you know what it was...she felt GUILTY about not accepting me enough ...she was getting depressed and isolated and totally KEPT IT FROM ME....her issue is she is totally embarrassed by me, and wants to not be embarrassed, she is in the gay/straight alliance at school, is 100% tolerant and yet, she doesnt like the fact that I'm TS......she has finally written me notes and emails about her sad feelings that break my heart, but now I realize how precarious her situation was...teenagers do stupide things...she NEVER let me know her suffering until now..this could have been a very very sad ending and for months I had no idea!!! ..and I am VERY close to my daughters...

so you see what I am saying?

So think it all through, tell them, and then be prepared to be the most loving and caring and selfless and knowledgeable parent you can be to help them through what is often a very difficult time ...and if they all say no problem...make sure you pay attention to determine whether THEY are being HONEST with you...how you do that is up to you...daddy knows best!!!!

[carrie-ann]

Hun there is a time and place for every one. Every one has there own challanges. So whats wright for one is not wright for another. You need to evaluate whats wright for you and your famaly. And if you are married or devorced talk to the kidds mother too. Every thing will be affected by your decission.

[AmandaM]

Why? Is there some wrong with crossdressing? Will a boy be psychologically damaged if he puts on a dress? In previous generations, were girls damaged when they saw their mothers wearing pants and copied them?

Is it possible for us to stop thinking that crossdressing is an abnormal behavior that children need to be shielded from? Can we break this distasteful link and not pass on our guilt and shame to the next generation? :hugs:

Nobody is saying that. At least not me. What I will say is that it's hard enough for us to be crossdressers in this world. I wouldn't want any of my kids to be this way, in this world, unless they are truly meant to be. Unless you know for a fact a child cannot be influenced to be a crossdresser, I stand by my statements.

[lavistaa62]

It has been said that with indoctrination, fully 50% of humans can be "taught" to be gay.

I thought you were going to suggest that 50% of kidnapped teenage boys became militia members...

However limited my experience- only one of the children of the dozens of male and female gays who associated with my household is gay as an adult or teenager. There were lots of kids as my family grew up during the day where people came out after having had several children (as is the case with many of us) rather than younger as perhaps our children and grandchildren will recognize as beneficial.

[Satrana]

Nobody is saying that. At least not me. What I will say is that it's hard enough for us to be crossdressers in this world. I wouldn't want any of my kids to be this way, in this world, unless they are truly meant to be. Unless you know for a fact a child cannot be influenced to be a crossdresser, I stand by my statements.

You cannot guarantee anything in this life except we will all die. All you can do is make your best judgement and not fear things which are unreasonable. It is like saying that since you cannot guarantee your children will not be run over by a car, they should not be allowed to cross the street. Parenting is about giving your children the best advice and guiding them to be the best possible person they can be.

The underlying narrative is still that crossdressing is an infliction. Some CDs are happy and content being CDs. It is up to the individual to come to terms with society's prejudices. Kids learn about prejudices anyway. They are well aware that there are "bad" people who say bad things about others. Parents should not avoid talking about these issues and leave it to chance whether their own children will absorb and agree with society's prejudices. IMO that is an abdication of parenting.

[KimberlyJo]

Look at all the other predictions of social disaster arising from children watching violent moves and playing video games
that were doomsday scenarios in the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, 2000s. For some strange reason the collapse of society due to the damage inflicted on our children never seems to materialize....


Yeah, society just keeps getting better and better. It's not like kids are going into their schools and shooting people, or substance abuse is on the rise, or teenage pregnancy, or depression...




Personally the way I do it is to expose your children to as much variation as possible. Teach them about all the amazing differences in world cultures taking note of the wide differences in behaviors so they understand that we all come in all sizes and colors. Then your next step is to make them understand that everyone wants the same things in life whether you are an Eskimo or an African bushman. We are all the same underneath. If you know friends or family who look or behave differently from norm then get your children to spend time with them so they observe superficial differences does not alter the fact that we are just the same people with the same dreams and desires. After you have laid out this groundwork, explaining your own gender variation will be easy for them to grasp.

Well said, thanks for the advice :)

[busker]

I think that there is some confusion here about the meaning of acceptance and tolerance which could affect the outcome here. We tolerate drunkeness in public but we certainly don't accept it as good behaviour.
What a child accepts at home is also different from tolerating an abuse, for example.
That a child accepts daddy in one of several costumes does not guarantee that that child will be acepting of others doing something similar or even tolerating later in life. I never questioned my father's changes of clothing from work attire to gardening clothes and most children with parents in the military or fire or police services would not question daddy in his uniform.
acceptance is approval, something which not even all CD's grant to themselves, tolerance is not acting in a negative way, putting up with something.
At a certian point in time, young animals will accept almost anything as "mom" and children MAY be the same way. But, children quickly slip away from parental influence and quickly take on the "group think" of their peer group which they see more than mom and dad. This is where bias is formed and one cannot guarentee that all children a raised alike.
As I understand it, homosexuality has more of a proven basis in physiology than being a cd'er does, so children wouldn't necessarily become gay by living with a gay person, but a child could certainly mimic daddy's behaviour without truly understanding the import of what it is doing and thereby bring down on it's head the wrath of the peer group or community and much worse for the parent. I think one shouldn't necessarily try to treat a child as a grown up , especially with such a difficult topic. We've all agreed how difficult it can be to explain it to an adult--one's SO, so why would a parent want to try to explain it to a child, except under the delusion that a young mind will be accepting when it has no other behaviour to compare it to. Personally, I would be very cautious. There is much in life that is the result of NURTURE and once the ink is in the milk , it is impossible to get it out.
Mandrake out of water

[Super Amanda]

so why would a parent want to try to explain it to a child, except under the delusion that a young mind will be accepting when it has no other behaviour to compare it to. Personally, I would be very cautious.

So you must be suggesting that a parent should allow society to mold their child, for better or worse? Talk about delusional. Have any kids?



Hey, if crossdressing is something you can suppress and it doesn't negatively affect your life (yeah right), then by all means let Jerry Springer teach your kids about transgendered people, and then see how they react when they catch you dressed like Alice in Wonderland after they grow up thinking you are Mr. Masculine....
But if you are like the majority, and suppressing your dressing leads to depression, seclusion, anxiety and dozens of other problems that leading a secret, double life will do to a person, then perhaps you may just need to have this issue in the open to preserve your life.


I think a person that forgets that a parents job is to teach what behavior is acceptable or not, is the delusional one.

[Frédérique]

I am concerned that I may be having an effect on my youngest son's sense of gender and I don't know how I feel about that. I want my kids to know about and accept this part of me so I figure the younger they are introduced to it the more likely they are to be able to consider it normal.

Kids should consider crossdressing to be normal. It's normal for us, isn't it? I’m not a father, but, since I’m an uncle, I would love to influence young minds towards tolerance in all areas, especially transgendered proclivities. I’ve encountered a lot of closed minds out here in the Heartland, victims of a mind-set I cannot penetrate with any of my special powers. It’s sad... :sad: I’d love to “turn on” a young person to the wonderful world of crossdressing, but do it with the utmost caution and discretion. It may be strictly a personal, private path that one discovers and travels alone, at least during one’s youth. Things would be different if you were blessed with an enthusiastic mentor, bit I wonder if such enthusiasm would make some children, sensitive or not, shy away from this “other’ world. It may be more important to foster feelings of wonder and beauty, along with tolerance and love for all, especially in boys, the ones that need such guidance the most…:straightface:

I like to see (or find out about) boys who are sensitive, unlike typical boys, but are still boys, if that makes any sense. These are excellent candidates for MtF crossdressing, but it has to start from within with a desire to do so. I was unable to dress up when I was really young – I really didn’t know about it, but I gradually found out about such interesting and exciting things on my own. It would’ve been a blessing if an older person had enlightened me about this alternative lifestyle – I know I would have been receptive to the idea, even though I was outwardly a normal boy. Luckily, no adults filled my head with prejudice at an early age. It would have been highly detrimental to hear someone I love say, “Boys dressing like girls is WRONG” during my years of relative innocence, but in what context would they have done so? This activity (crossdressing) was only known to my parents in the form of professional “drag,” for laughs only. Real (normal) CD’ing is a serious matter, as we all know, but please don’t stop smiling…:)

Your son will find out that crossdressing is normal all by himself, as long as his peers don’t tell him otherwise. I wish someone had told me about crossdressing when I was young, and presented it as a special, beautiful, and ultimately private activity that needs to be cherished for it’s own sake. I learned that the hard way over time – nobody tells you these things when it would have meant something…:sad:

[Michelle8]

my son knows about my crossdressing and uis fine with it.
But I try to keep it in the house because I don't want him
to be teased by his friends.we all know how teenage boys
can be really cruel on such things.

[lavistaa62]

Though it may be out of fashion, I have little trouble consciously encouraging my children to adopt certain of my attitudes. Not all or even most of them but the ones I perceive as most useful and valuable.

CD is not among them but judging others as you would be judged is. So, if they CD I would support them since I feel the world would be a better place if this harmless pleasure were accepted. My life would certainly have been less stressful.

I like to think it is because I consciously nurtured the importance of this "the golden rule" , that my children have said they found my parenting very laid back. If only I could wend my way through the rest of of life as skillfully.

So rather than examining whatever influence you have with your son, worship that connection and develop it. Each Child's unique qualities will emerge regardless and it is beautiful to recognize traces of you will be among them.

[busker]

I think it was last year, I read of 2 gradeschoolers, one of whom like to go to school in ladies boots (not very catching with his classmates) and one who liked daddy's 357. One day they both expressed themselves. Only one boy survived. So much for acceptance and tolerance.
It is a parent's job to teach their children but I THINK the subject should be ethics, courtesy, scholarship, penmanship, etc, but certainly not following the behaviour of a group of men whose numbers are less than the stars on the flag.
As for the wondrousness of this social dis-ease, there is hardly a thread on this forum that doesn't run over with self hate, depression, marriage dysfunction, therapy, being a social outcast--you name it. What a wonderful world to sign your kid up for! I have the impression that even the Mafiosi didn't try to indoctrinate their kids.
I still believe that parental influence diminishes by the square the older their children get and it is largely due to peer pressure and of course, their own individual thinking as they grow up and mature. There are lots of ways to teach acceptance and tolerance and one doesn't need to wear a skirt to do it.
Just beyond the ordinary pane of window glass in every American home is fear and loathing and it isn't confined to Las Vegas. Of all of the people we know little about, our neighbors rank number one on the list. Otherwise, how would most cd'ers survive the neighborhood. Introducing your child to "the closet" is hardly being a paragon of parenthood. Children should discover sex, lies and videotape on their own, in their own good time. Then, you can talk to them about it.
my 2 pennies for whatever they are worth.

[Satrana]

but a child could certainly mimic daddy's behaviour without truly understanding the import of what it is doing and thereby bring down on it's head the wrath of the peer group or community and much worse for the parent. If a boy did decide to mimic his dad, so what? So long as father is doing nothing to force this behavior on the child then it is part of life's explorations. If the boy is happy then he should be allowed to continue, if it leaves him cold he will stop on his own accord. Children may be malleable but they are perfectly capable of making up their own minds in the absence of indoctrination.

It is the duty of parents, irregardless of whether the boy mimics his father or not, to discuss and explain prejudices and its consequences. This needs to be a regular dialogue throughout childhood to combat peer pressures on a whole range of prejudices - racial, bigotry, homophobia.

[Sally24]

Seems like from some of the off topic, self loathing posts, that's there's plenty of guilt to go around here!

I didn't have to confront this issue when my kids were young because I didn't actively dress then. By the time I hit 50 and started exploring this part of me, the were both in their 20's. 3 or 4 years later, as I started spending alot of time out and about I decided it was time to start sounding them out. To be practical you have to realize one thing. If you spend much time dressing, and especially if youi go out in public, there is a good chance that your children will find out "something" at some point. It's far better to pick the best time you can calculate, rather than leave it up to chance.

I told my daughter first, thought she probably suspected something. She had seen a few pictures on the computer so was a little worried just what it meant. As soon as we talked she was fine with it. In fact she borrowed one of my dresses the next week! We've borrowed clothing back and forth since then and it's strengthened our relationship.

I told my 25 year old son the next year. He thought it was a little odd but seemed to be alright with it. He still talks fine with us when he comes by but I am concerned. He doesn't visit nearly as much as he used to and he lives in the same town that we do. I may have to probe a little deeper, even though he says everything is ok.

So you can see, even with older children it can be a mixed bag. Myself, I think that the truth is your best friend. It's worked with my wife and friends. People can blame you for lying, they shouldn't blame you for who you are.

I would say that you have to make your best guess as a parent on what is good for your family. That's all you can do as a Dad.

[Polar]

If a boy did decide to mimic his dad, so what? So long as father is doing nothing to force this behavior on the child then it is part of life's explorations. If the boy is happy then he should be allowed to continue, if it leaves him cold he will stop on his own accord. Children may be malleable but they are perfectly capable of making up their own minds in the absence of indoctrination.

It is the duty of parents, irregardless of whether the boy mimics his father or not, to discuss and explain prejudices and its consequences. This needs to be a regular dialogue throughout childhood to combat peer pressures on a whole range of prejudices - racial, bigotry, homophobia.

Very well said! I think the bigger issue here is just exposing children to the variety of life so that they can create their own sense of what's normal for them. Often times, we are prejudiced towards things we are scared of and know little about - Kim, I think by talking to your kids about it and answering their questions as they arise you're giving them a solid foundation to learn more about it if they want to or not and at the least they'll be more likely to be accepting of it b/c it will be somewhat familiar, not a scary unknown. You're kids are certainly fortunate to have you for a parent!!! (though I have inside info to prove it too! :battingeyelashes:)