Do people enjoy reminding us of our TG status?

[Nicole Erin]

Couple stories -
One of my FB friends and I have a mutual friend from high school who is transsexual, The lady passes well, lives full time as a woman, etc...
Well the mutual friend is GG and is cool about stuff but refers to our friend as "he".

At school people seem cool about me, of course not being full time or passable enough, they do see I present as female but I am GM. Yet they are always calling me "sir" or "a man". Not in a rude way, or so the tone isn't rude or stressed, no "hello.. SIR!" type thing. I might as well dress like a GD hell's angel with a beard :Angry3:

Yes these things annoy the crap out of me. I don't say anything, but onto my questions -

Do people, even well-meaning people, do this as some kind of rejection or why do they do it? Say some TS passed perfectly as one can but someone knew of her TS status, would people still think of her as male?

People obsess over passing but I wonder if that would matter in the least once someone found out that a MTF TS was born male? Full timers, experience with this?

I guess we REALLy need another "passing" thread but this one is more about acceptance and just WHY people would think of a TS as male regardless of her passability and such. What if someone like say Cindy Crawford was TS, would she all the sudden become "he" in the eyes of the general public?
You get my point

[kellycan27]

Well Nicole I have to honestly say that everyone who knows me, friends,family and co-workers refer to me as "she", at least when I am within earshot. What they say or how they refer to me behind my back...I haven't a clue. I haven't been sir'ed in about 5 years. Prior to that I had my share of strange looks and even some.. hey! that's a guy! Up until last year my mom would call me by my given name, and refused to call me Kelly, or acknowledge that I was a girl, but she has since come around. On occasion I have heard some of my cis friends refer to our other friends as he, but I think it is more of a slip of the tongue, because they usually correct themselves.Maybe this is because the person in question is still in the process of transitioning or a cder that switches back and forth, and they have been friends both before and during. And let's not forget the hateful types that want to just drag you out for whatever twisted reason that they feel the need to do so. This comes from strangers. Finally there are the ones who suffer from "sour grapes"... who just love the opportunity to "bring you down a notch". Takes all kinds to make the world go round :heehee:

Kel

[Sheila]

On occasion I have heard some of my cis friends refer to our other friends as he, but I think it is more of a slip of the tongue, because they usually correct themselves.Maybe this is because the person in question is still in the process of transitioning or a cder that switches back and forth, and they have been friends both before and during.

:yt:, sometimes it is slip of tongue Kelly ........... good grief I get my kids names mixed up, oft refer to my sis by my daughters name and visa versa :eek::doh:, sometimes I refer to D***** by his fem name when he is in drab and also the reverse ..... :eek:


Finally there are the ones who suffer from "sour grapes"... who just love the opportunity to "bring you down a notch". Takes all kinds to make the world go round :heehee:Kel

and there are plenty of them around especially if you go looking for em :sad:

[noeleena]

Hi..
Very rare now you have to remember that many people knew me before i went on t v . so i would accept i would get the few, not so much the he. sir.

Just noel well its still my name & when people call me i answer its not a oh get it right , Jos my s o will allways call me noel . if in other commony its noeleena i really dont mind its the phone that some times it comes up & even now not much
being known over a long time & being with people all the time they know who i am so its okay ,
Even when i came out it was to start with noeleen then was changed to noeleena by one of the nurse s in phuket so it started from there she just said this is your name ,
you have to give others time to ajust to the new you, tags & all . & its all good .

...noeleena...

[Hali]

I think what matters is wat one feels inside and is able to express it on the outside for the world to see and judge, sometimes pple get judged wrongly or unfair, the motives for the judgments can be genuine or mischief so always accept comments with an open mind .............if you like the comment show appreciation if you dont like it raise your head high and move on.

[Moe GG]

Thinking that "well-meaning people" are doing it on purpose because they enjoy reminding you of your TG status is a bit unfair. Since you say it's not in a malicious way, I'd say it's probably because they either don't put any thought into it or too much thought into it.

It's not about rejecting the idea of the TG/TS being female, it's more leaning on what they know for sure, that the person was born male, and normally.. you'd call someone born male "he" unless that person tells you differently.

If it bothers you.. Talk to them and let them know in a nice way? Would be a fairly easy solution to your problem in particular if that's all it would take.

A lot of us just don't know how to go about it, I know I had no idea before I became a member here, but I'd probably just ask that person up-front so I knew for sure.. Most people won't do that though.

And yes.. Many people will continue to see a TS as male unless someone educates them and they get used to the idea.

It's NOT easy to handle when you've got no clue on what you're dealing with. If you do care, you'll be afraid of offending the person, if you don't really care, you'll just go by what you know, what you've traditionally have been exposed to and taught, and that is that you're either born male or female.

It's not about a lack of acceptance as much as it is about ignorance.

[Andy66]

I think often people are confused about how you would prefer to be called. I have had to tell several grown adults, who you would think should know better, that it's common courtesy to call a person by whatever gender they're presenting. Some people really don't know that. :eek:

Then there are some gay men out there who dress rather femme, but still want to be considered "he," so that just confuses people further. Especially in the cosmetology industry, I'm sure I don't need to tell you, that can be pretty common.

I try to use the proper pronouns, but I'm sure I've made innocent mistakes here and there.

...But if I happen to run into a troglodyte who behaves like a man in a dress, all bets are off and I just might call that person "he" on purpose. :devil:

[PretzelGirl]

I would like to echo the above two comments. Most people have zero exposure (that they know of) to people across our spectrum. So how should they know what to do? I tend to not get upset over others actions unless it is an overt act to insult me. With that attitude, I recommend that you just try talking to them. See if they really knew what your preference was. This could be educational for them. I am sure you may still have people that continue (just because there are jerks in the world) and that would be a snub. But I'll bet you also get some to change and they would learn something from it.

[Karren H]

You care way too much what other people say.. Call me what you like... Lifes too short to let petty crap bother me any more..

[sissystephanie]

I totally agree with Karren! Life definitely is too short to worry about things like that. If you don't like what they say, "Pop" them one!!:)

[TG_Nicole]

well hun IMHO cd/ts/tg/tv/gg its all the same to me. If you choose to appear as a woman then that's what you are to me.

[Karen564]

Well, My take on it Nicole or anyone else for that matter, If you haven't fully come out of the closet then live & dress the role as a woman 24/7 at your school or work, why on Earth would anyone refer you as a She or Her??
It's not their fault they don't know what your desires are if you never told them, is it???
You need to go the whole 9 yards if you want people to address you properly..

That's my experience with it anyway....
I had gone through what your experiencing last year, But after I went 24/7, it all got much better....because it's so much less confusing in a sense for them..

And since enrolling into college, I started off from day One as a woman there, and theirs a few that know I used to be a guy due to my own disclosure to them, but I've only been referred to as a He 2 times by mistake due to a slip of the tongue, but it was an honest mistake..so no biggy...I never went there to purposely try to fool anyone, I just went their as myself and was ready for the worst and would take it as it comes, but so far, I have been treated very nicely by everyone so far..
I do love going to school now because it's like starting all over in life, and it was the best thing I could of done for myself....it also serves as my proving ground to applying my voice and total presentation, so I should have it perfected by the time I start my new career..:)

So give some thought to what I said...it can make a difference..

[EnglishRose]

Yes, some people do have the opinion that genetic males are always "he" to them, even post-op MTF TS. It's ignorant and disrepectful.

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

I think people just aren't in the loop. I even have a hard time when talking to others about a TG person keeping pronouns straight so as not to be confusing in the conversation.

[Rachel Morley]

I don't think people do it on purpose. They're just not thinking as we do. IMHO they aren't aware of the etiquette that's all.

[Sarah Doepner]

I don't think people do it on purpose. They're just not thinking as we do. IMHO they aren't aware of the etiquette that's all.

I have to disagree with you Rachel. When the President recently appointed a TS to a high position in his administration the Bloggers and others went nuts! I found one newspaper article followed by so many comments that disregarded the qualifications she had and only focused on her "mental health issues" and the fact that he still sported xy genes. They were not just critical, disrespectful and pig-headed, they were very afraid of something and she was their target. Those folks may know the etiquette, but they will avoid it at all costs.

It actually frightened me a little when I finished reading all those hateful comments.

[kellycan27]

[QUOTE=BEITRIS;2043904 and there are plenty of them around especially if you go looking for em :sad:[/QUOTE]

Yes there are, but I not what "especially if you go looking for them" means??

[erika130]

I really wanted to add my opinion on this, but then realized Kelly, Beitris, Moe and Anne already pretty much said what I had in mind. In fact, they couldn't have said it better!

The only thing I would add is that in your question, it seems you generalized that kind of behavior or attitude to people in general, I'm sure not intentionally, but we all know that's just impossible. Everyone is different, just taking a look at this site is an excellent example. I don't doubt there are a few that might do that on purpose, but for the most part, like most already said, it's probably confusion or simply a slip of tongue!
:2c:
erika ;)

[Satrana]

I think for "well-meaning" people it is likely to be either of two things.

1. There is no social convention on how to address a TG person. People will automatically err on the side of traditional and stick with your physical gender.

2. People still have a problem publically declaring their support of a TG person. If they refer to a MTF as she then this implicitly implies that they accept and support the TG cause. This might make them feel uncomfortable as they really are not interested in the TG issue but being deemed to be a supporter would place them at risk of attracting social prejudice through guilt by association.

[Froggy's Angel]

I personally try really hard to call people what they want to be called.

I had a gay friend who called EVERYONE "she", "her" and "girlfriend", he was fond of using female terms for gay guys.
Some people complained to him, or to me behind his back, and other people didn't care.
I also have had transvestite friends who prefered to be called "him" or by thier male names even when dressed, because they would tell me they are not trying to be women, even when I thought they were VERY passable.
SO... I get nervous sometimes calling people ANYTHING, "He", "She"... I try to stick to "oh wow, that dress is beautiful on you!" or something that allows me to leave gender out completely, just to be safe... Until I get to know them at least.
But that is just me. :)

Oh I should add though, that I am VERY new to the MtF world beyond drag queens and occasional cross dressers, I OFTEN, by accident, still call my husband "Him" or by his male name when he is dressed... Just something I still need to get used to and better at. :)