Question

[bethany356]

I hope no one is offended by this question, but it is something I have noticed on the forum... Why do you refer to your female/CD self in third person? It confuses me because you are the same person, with the same feelings, likes and dislikes, are you not? From how Veronica explained it to me, there is no diffrence between her and M****** because, again, they are the same... I don't even think of her as M****** any more, but to me, they are still one and the same... Does this make sence, or is this a late night, percoset fuled rambeling?

[wanda jackson]

Personally, I'm glad you brought up this subject, it's confused me too. I never really had the inclination to refer to myself any differently, although I felt differently. I kinda always thought it would be fun to have a GG give me a name based on how she related to my feminine side. And when I finally had that happen, my GF and I used it primarily as a codeword, but it was fun. My current GF also came up with a name and it's also fun. But she tends to use it as if refering to a third person after a while it became confusing for me. I would find myself talking about myself but using an arbitrary name. It might be easier for her to process this new experience by using a third person name to talk about this new side of the man she was drawn to, so I cut her major slack.
Personally, I like to take all the credit for my transformation...doing my own make-up and finding my own sense of style, that stuff took a lot of dedicated long-term effort!...I'd like to be appreciated as a man for my unique ability to change from masculine to feminine and back, and not have to give any credit to a temporary name. :laughing:It's all the same person.
But that's just me!
:2c:

[Gillian]

I don't do it intentionally really but find I do talk about my two sides based on who is writing on the post at the time? it helps I suppose in keeping them apart as Gillian is deeply hidden in my day to day life and I can only express my thoughts as her when I am dressed and being her? Maybe misguided I will look at that, as it is a very interesting point you raise.

I don't have a much deeper answer than that I'm sorry. I could also add that if I had the choice my male persona would be the smaller and dissapearing portion of the discussion as I adore being me and being Gillian as who I am now.

[noeleena]

Hi..

Just done one like this on one of our other forums .

For me being a androgyn how could i because im both , i could not seperate one from the other . & even my thinking was some 50 years ago at 10 i never saw the difference between female & male when you are born with both sets of thinking you sort of just think its okay . & i never ? it , regardless of how your body looks .
Mind you your clothes do reflect how you are in side i did know that yet what did not make sence was i was not in some ways like girls never mind does not matter now as all i wear are female clothes . & can express my self as who i am
so really i tryed the other side if you like & it was not totaly me.
being a woman in many ways is right .
So to talk in the third person . did not seem right & i have wondered why others have & do that .
The ? does come up can you intergrate both female & male . & see your self as one person . so no matter what you do its still you . just the clothes may change how you do things or we dont wont to accept we are both .
the thrd person reminds me of a t v program of harry Lime in the 60 s
the answer is no i dont see my self that way .

...noeleena...

[Fab Karen]

I don't. I'm just me, with a different appearance at times.

[Samantha_Smile]

"The Rock won't stand for this non-sense...

IF YA SMEEEEEEEELLLALALALALALALALOOOOOWWWW...

What the Rock....


...Is cookin!"

This is honestly what I think of when anyone does the third person thing. (If you weren't watching WWF circa 2000, you wont get it)
Im not sure whether this classes as a mild form of multiple personality disorder.

Personally, I tend to reffer to my guy stuff and my girl stuff and their respective modes (Ie en femme/ in guy mode)
There really is a thick culture on here where this way of talking is dominant, and it seems to be a little catchy.
Noobs (newer than myself) seem to be picking it up.

Now unless it's a common thing for some CDs to ACTUALLY see themselves as two distinct people, then it does strike me as a little odd.
I even read something yesterday that someone put about being electively ambidexterous (right handed when in guy stuff, and left handed en femme), and no offence to whom ever it was, but this too strikes me a weird.

When I dress, I am me.



In a dress :D

[Sheila]

We both refer to Debs in the third person when he is in male mode, and perhaps why so many CDERS do it while on here is because they are in male mode when posting on here ............ just a thought :)

[Madilyn A.]

Never gave it any thought, however when dressed I always refer to myself in the feminine, when drab sometimes refer to myself as Madilyn, I think the key here is my nail polish color, if RED I refer to myself as Madilyn and not in the 3rd person. Interesting concept ?

[Kate Simmons]

For myself it goes way way back to the secret identity thing with Super Heroes. Even if their identities were known, they often referred to themselves in the third person. Sometimes when the "power" is highlighted the thought is that "so and so" is doing it and not the mere mortal half.:)

[Moe GG]

I've given this a lot of thought myself, even discussed it with someone as recent as last night.

From what I gather after having read more than a few threads on the matter over the last few years, different people have very different reasons.

The most "extreme" cases I've come across.. Were some I found very unhealthy and hard to take in, while other cases seem very healthy in a sense that it helps them find balance.

I remember reading a very heated discussion where some crossdressers were claiming that they were different people, and that their femme self was in no way related to the life the male self lived.. So it was ok to, as I see it, cheat on their spouses when en femme, because they were in no way responsible for what that person was doing.

In my mind.. How they perceive their feminine side and how comfortable they are with it, how detached or connected they feel to it, must have a lot to do with their own individual personalities, traits, experiences etc.

[Karren H]

That drives Karren nuts too.. Lol.

I hate that.. Personally I'm me no mater what I wear... I don't go out as Karren or Karren doesn't go shopping.. Me myself and I go shopping.. It irks me so much I don't even respond to posts where anyone referes to themselves in the third person..

Karren agrees with the above statments! :D

[ReineD]

It has to do with wanting to be addressed by the appropriate pronoun. For a TG who is not full time, referring to the self as him or her, or by alternating between guy and gal names is a convenient way to describe the switching back and forth.

Also, we are all conditioned by our culture's insistence that there are only two gender choices, as is evident on any form: either male or female. So again, for someone who has no wish to be full time as either gender, the tendency when going back and forth is to think in terms of either he or she rather than as an "I" that would accurately convey a combination of both.

The ideal would be to add gender-neutral pronouns to the English language in order to recognize the non-binary states, other than "it". Then maybe the TGs who do identify as being sometimes he and other times she, or who believe themselves to be always s/he, would begin thinking of themselves as being always "hir". The trouble with "hir" and "s/he" is that if works in writing but not when you speak it.

So we need to find better pronouns and then get the rest of the world to start using them in everyday language. :)

... oh, and change all the forms to include an "Other" gender.

[Andy66]

*does terrible English queen impression*
We are not amused. Now bring us some tea. Pip pip!

Joking. :heehee: What I was told is that some people prefer to be in either male or female mode, not somewhere in between, so calling the mode they are not in at the moment in third person helps them keep the two sides separate. To each her own, right?

[Frédérique]

Why do you refer to your female/CD self in third person?

I don’t, unless it’s contained in the title of a thread for clarification. Also, from time to time, I’ll pop my femme name into a post for humorous purposes – it’s actually a subtle dig at those who refer to themselves in the third person all the time (it seems). I think it’s funny, but I didn’t have a female/CD name until I joined forums like this one and found out it was mandatory…:o

Of course, it’s kind of cute to say something like “Freddy didn’t get out today,” rather that get into a long-winded descriptive story that essentially says the same thing, albeit in a less truncated way. Most girls are doing it, so it’s kind of a CD (MtF) version of the secret handshake…:heehee:

[kimdl93]

I know that some people on here refer to their fem side in the 3rd person. I do not...feel that I'm one entity...regardless of how I am dressed!

[Nina (uk)]

i am one and the same in both modes, apart from a wiggly walk in en femme mode.

[Sheren Kelly]

Bethany,
I think the answer to this interesting question goes back to where the person is with accepting his/her gender. I know a lot of CDs (particularly the Tri-Ess members) who view their femme persona as separate from their male persona. This may be to keep peace with their wives who may not be comfortable with an "unconventional" spouse. People who are unattached have more freedom and may integrate the masculine/feminine identity.

Society still stigmatizes men who appear as "sissys", so divorcing the femine part of their identity allows them to maintain the fascade of being a conventional man with only the "hobby' of dressing up.

[minalost]

It is easier to say, "Mina went shopping today" than to say "I dressed up enfemme and went shopping today." Four words instead of eight, and we all understood what was being said. Frankly I think this is a non-issue unless the s/he in question truely has a split personality or is using this as an excuse to "do bad things" enfemme because they "are really a different person" when dressed enfemme.

[EnglishRose]

Some people do indeed seem to have split themselves into two different people. They even have different tastes in music! I don't quite get that, myself (ourselves? :D )

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

I remember reading a very heated discussion where some crossdressers were claiming that they were different people, and that their femme self was in no way related to the life the male self lived.. So it was ok to, as I see it, cheat on their spouses when en femme, because they were in no way responsible for what that person was doing.


I see this a lot, it's also what bugs me about the "pink fog" argument sometimes too. Like it's a blank permission slip to do things you might consider inappropriate. Even before I stopped dressing en femme, I started only using "Alyssa" as a screen name, I remember being out at a bar with a gg friend and a girl she was friends with asked me my name and I just said "Ryan," without hesitation.

[Jocelyn Quivers]

In all honesty I confuse myself in this manner because I often post in the third person.

I don't even half way understand why I do this I guess the easiest answer I can give is that there is a 3rd gender neutral me, a male side, and a female side.

Both male and female sides are distinct seperate entities with their own wants, thoughts, and needs. Usually when posting I am in the mind set of the neutral gender or female one.

I hope this helps, although I seem to have confused myself even more after writing it. :straightface:

[bethany356]

I didn't mean to confuse anyone! 0.o But I find all the answers interesting... and confusing still!!! :doh:

[suchacutie]

(spoken from the masculine perspective): One day my wife and I were having a discussion involving her interest in my opinion on a number of issues. Three hours later my wife was speaking with Tina and asked for opinions on the same issues. My wife explained that she thought Tina could have different opinions....those from a feminine perspective.

Tina is my feminine self. She does have different tastes in food and in wine. She is incredibly fastidious. She really enjoys dressing well, and would never think of working in the garden or any other task involving actually soiling her clothes..not a chance! She likes chick flicks. She has her own crochetting projects and she is interested in books I would never read. She is also left handed while I'm right handed. Her voice is different. She gossips with my wife (or chit-chats, depending upon your view). My wife says that the next time Tina visits, she'll teach Tina how to be bitchy (whatever that actually means!).

Tina has only existed in our understanding for 4+ years. My wife and I understand that she has always been with me and it is fascinating to us to find out who she is. I spent my whole life hating Halloween and any form of play-acting as I was completely uncomfortable leaving what I thought of as my self image. Yet, one day Tina shows up, my wife is buying her a dress and makeup, and suddenly it all makes sense. Also, my wife's relationship with Tina is girlfriend...I am her husband. Tina and I work off the same data base (knowledge and experience) but Tina is committed to being feminine and that takes separation.

This whole separation has helped me to understand a number of things that have been ambiguous in my life, and has brought my wife and I to a closer understanding of each other. It may be the case that Tina and I will merge back together, but somehow I doubt it. I like the freedom that the separation bring to Tina and me.

Tina and me...us!

[Kerigirl2009]

When I talk about my feminine side I try to keep them seperate because I try to keep them seperate. Although I do know I am the same person. Never to meet face to face. LOL :)

[Joanne f]

I know who i am but what i am may depended on from what perspective you look at it and i am really not bothered about that but i can understand the ones who wish to keep to two persona's separate and the SO`s who wish to keep them separate as in that way there is no mixing it up as they will be one or the other , it is really quite a simple way of dealing with a situation that might otherwise cause some problems in a relationship.

[sonia_dargency]

My Girl Inside does not really have a name, I took a username to blend in the forum since it's seems customary not to use one's real name.

Dressing makes me feel more myself and more relaxed, I don't become someone else.

Do me a favor: if you ever see Sonia talk about herself in the 3rd person, let me know...

[Hope]

Oh yeah - referring to oneself in the third person is something that has always driven me crazy, it doesn't matter if that third person is a female "persona" or if it is one's guy self - it is still disquieting.

[corynn]

Bethany

back in the day when I told you to refer your SO as her that Was only for her benefit.

because its hard on us CD'ers when sometimes we dont get the reassurance or love from our mate RE: our dressing
there is nothing worse than a mate saying to their mate that they do not want them to dress because.of various reasons

All excuses that have been told to me and that I had lived through in my life with Past S.O. (which gave me my name )

1."it makes me feel insecure."
2."you look pettier that dress than I would. "
3."when I need protection I.E. that a male will provide
when en femme I feel that you will not be able to protect me. "
4."you're way to sensitive while en femme mode. "
5." when you are replying to posts on CD.com remember you're talking to men that are en femme."

I guess certain CD'S refer to themselves in the third person
because to train themselves so that way they do not blow it when they're out in drab to go meandering through the womens section in a store and pick up a gorgeous pair jimmy choo heels OMG OMG OMG :eek::eek::daydreaming::daydreaming::daydreaming:: daydreaming:

and also referring to a whole different side of your mate that most people do not get too see on a daily basis.

Most Cders are way way way insecure is some shape or form about how they look. just like everyone in this World does
but more so for CD'S I know I am fairly insecure with things!

1.weight
2.not having adequate femme shape
3.my smile
4.makeup
5.and having so much more to learn about Dressing and building confidence level up as well

[Lorileah]

I didn't mean to confuse anyone! 0.o But I find all the answers interesting... and confusing still!!! :doh:

Lori doesn't think it is at all confusing. She has it all down and is very aware of how things are or should be.

I refer to myself as "we" all the time. Maybe a subconscious plot to reaffirm the fact that I am in actuality two people (maybe even three). I will use something like "Lori does this or that." when posting here to define that, as my feminine personality, I do act and often feel different than the male side. My male/female persona are really polar as far far interacting with the public goes. Many things carry over, but Lori is a lot happier and outgoing than that guy...but I just can't be rid of him. Damn Damn Damn Damn Damn...a second nature to me now, like breathing out...and breathing in...rather like a habit one can easily break and yet... I've grown accustomed to the trace...accustomed to his face

[dawnmarrie1961]

Bethany,

Some people just feel more comfortable living in a sub-division rather than owning the whole valley.

It might be livable but the view really sucks!


Be safe. Be smart. (Be one.)

Dawn Marrie

[Genifer Teal]

I'm guilty of doing this too. Nothing deep to read into it. If I'm telling a story and say Genifer did this or Genifer did that, it is probably because at the moment I am in boy mode. It is just a convenient and fun way of saying I was dressed as a girl. If I am dressed as a girl at the time I tell the story then I would just say I did this or I did that.


Gen

[Nigella23]

This is a great post, and one which highlights again how everyone is totally different and feels different dressed for different reasons. I only took the name because it seemed it was the done thing, would have used my own but thought it might have made my wife uncomfortable. I don't have a femme thing going, I'm just me, sometimes sporty, sometimes posh, occassionally sexy, flirty and dirty, but always, it's just me.

[PretzelGirl]

I think a lot of it comes down to whether someone feels that their second self is an entirely separate persona or just more of an opposite gender version of themselves.

I don't feel I project that myself. I think I am the same person dressed either way. Now I do feel I relax and be myself more when I am dressed. Or at a minimum, at least have a different set of inhibitions. But none of this has caused me to refer to myself in the third person (that I have noticed).

[AllieSF]

I am with Karren on this one. I am Allie when dressed, and me personality and character wise all the time. I only may occasionally refer to Allie when sending a message because it seems like less typing than saying that I will be going out dressed as a woman. There was a good Seinfeld episode about a guy who always referred to himself in the third person, funny and annoying at the same time.

[DiannaRose]

As a (would be) writer, I am very aware of point-of-view when I write. Notice I'm writing in the first person now, because...well...because...hmmm....just because, I guess.

I notice the times I tend to write about "Dianna" in the third person are times when I'm talking about both parts of me, the he and the she in the same line/paragraph/story/police report/etc. Guess it's just easier to keep the two parts in line that way.

It comes down to individual preference, comfort level, and...um...some third thing, I think, as you've seen from the many posts here. :)

Short answer is there's no answer, maybe.

But a fun question, B! Thanks for posing it! :)

[LaSirenaBella]

Speaking in the third person, in general, is a minor pet peeve for me, and I cringe when I catch myself referring to my femme self in the third person. It still happens every now and then, but I am Sirena and I am my male self. I tend to use "girl mode" vs. "boy mode."

[Rachel Morley]

Hi Bethany,

Personally, I never refer to myself in the third perosn. For me to do so would make me feel like my femme self is not integrated into me and instead is some other perosn who only visits from time to time.

I am always the same person. True, when fully dressed, it could be argued that my feminine characteristics are more obvious and perhaps even exaggerated but I like to think of my femininity as always being present, even without the clothes. It's simply expressed in different ways and to different degrees depending on the circumstances. When I am fully en femme, it's still me, I don't have two distinct identities. It's just my outward appearance that is different.

For example, it's not unusual for my wife to call me "Rach" to my face when I'm in boy mode and she enjoys the fact that there is no “third person” in our marriage. :)

[Sarah Doepner]

Since I am not out to the world, it does allow me to engage in "code talking" with my wife or others who know me. I try not to let it creep into my posts here, but I better read a few of them to see. Normally I think I try to say something like "I did suchandsuch as Sarah" rather than "Sarah did suchandsuch". The impact of the story is so much different if we don't clarify how we were presenting at the time. Here is the same story written different ways.

1- "I went into the auto parts store to get a new fuel pump for the chevy."

That doesn't generate the same kind of mental image as;

2- "Sarah went into the auto parts store to get a new fuel pump for the chevy."

Since you may not know who Sarah is, I suppose it could be rephrased as;

3- "I went, dressed as Sarah, to the auto parts store to get a new fuel pump for the chevy."

or maybe it would be better written as;

4- "After my makeover I slipped into a new pencil skirt, 4 inch slingback pumps, and deep vee neck sweater before going to the auto parts store to get a new fuel pump for the chevy, hoping one of the guys would carry it out for me so I wouldn't break a nail."

The question then, Why did I do that? I don't own a chevy.

[wanda jackson]

Wasn't there an episode of Seinfeld about a guy who always spoke of himself in 3rd person?

[Leslie Langford]

*does terrible English queen impression*
We are not amused. Now bring us some tea. Pip pip!

Joking. :heehee: What I was told is that some people prefer to be in either male or female mode, not somewhere in between, so calling the mode they are not in at the moment in third person helps them keep the two sides separate. To each her own, right?

...when I am in "Leslie" mode, I feel like a Queen, so the Royal "We" and being referred to in the third person seems eminently appropriate at that time :heehee::daydreaming:.

[eluuzion]

Wasn't there an episode of Seinfeld about a guy who always spoke of himself in 3rd person?

Yes, pretty halarious (when it is on a television comedy).

"Jimmy's gonna get you, Kramer! Hands off Jimmy! Don't touch Jimmy!"
(Jimmy, "The Jimmy," Seinfeld, 1995)

Illeism= the practice of referring to oneself in the third person.

IMO...
What was once a popular literary strategy now seems to be interpreted and/or described as disingenuous, out-of-place, annoying, pretentious, arrogant, pompous, presumptuous, weird, awkward and other unforgiving terms. (particularly in direct or "forum" discourse)

In psychology and psychiatric communities, it is often seen in discussions about dissociative disorders, narcissistic personality disorders, identity confusion, denial, deception, mental instability, etc.

My personal belief is that whatever truth, fact, excuse, justification or lack of involved in any discussion/debate on the issue, it will always involve some form of shifting, denying or minimizing the acknowledgement and/or acceptance of the person's responsibility for their actions or behavior.

IMO, it has similar reference to statements such as "I deserve to have a life too". A common comment by my ex-wife which meant of course, there was the "married" version of her...and the "single" version, which she ultimately proved she never left behind...but just "added" as an additional "person". (separating her from personal responsibility)...lol For me, when I got married, and had a child...it WAS my life, just like every day has been and will always be in the future. There is always only one "me", and I take responsibility for myself. Simple logic in my world....

Just a thought.

[msniki48]

Bethany,

This is a great topic. I think many of us do compartmentalize our 2 sides, as we either have not combined the 2 [ total acceptance and reaching equalibrium] and some of us have to compartmentalize due to work and family issues...[don't want to visibly be read as femm in guy mode] i tend to be the 2nd... i have to think about not showing femm affectations in my movements. this brings me to the writing. i tend to use niki in the 3rd person when writing to friends that know me as a guy... in here, however, it seems to bleed through, in my writing. i should be saying I or Me instead of niki...Here is where everyone knows Me , not Vince.:daydreaming:

this really makes me think

thank you:hugs:

[aggi123]

Bethany...

:angry:AGGI IS NOT PLEASED!!!!11!!1eleven!!!:angry: