Hormones: Progesterone

[kathrynjanos]

A question for the ladies:

I'm just starting out on my hormone treatments. After a lot of reading on the internets, I've been given the impression that progesterone may be a good option as an additional hormone (currently on Spiro and estradiol valerate inject in about a week). My understanding was that the progesterone would be useful in breast development.

The explanation I head was that estradiol and other similar versions will be responsible for the tubular development of the breasts, and progesterone will help with the "roundness" or fullness of development. Does anyone here have any experience or knowledge to that?

My doctor is hesitant to prescribe progesterone for me because there is limited belief in its benefit at their health clinic, and just more side effects to account for. I'm inclined to trust my doctor, but I really do want nice round breasts naturally, I'm hoping I'll be able to avoid surgery for that too.

[Hope]

You have stated the question, the theories, and the unknowns very well. Unfortunately, what you know, is about all that anyone else knows... with the caveat that everyone seems to respond to hormones a bit differently. Progesterone is believed by some to significantly aid in breast development, preventing tubular breasts, and it is believed by others to have no effect what-so-ever, and is a needless risk and waist of money. Sadly there is NO definitive answer.

It seems to me though that putting a hormone in your body will have some effect... and that GG have progesterone in elevated levels at puberty for some reason... since puberty is what we are essentially trying to replicate (in part) for the first few years, it seems to me that adding progesterone makes a lot of sense. Of course I am not a doctor, and everyone has to make her own decision.

Doctors are sometimes hesitant to prescribe a medication they have never prescribed before... so if you decide you are interested in progesterone, you may need to find another doctor. Honestly, interviewing a few of them before starting a serious therapy like this is not a bad idea.

We should not rule out progesterone from a risk minimization point of view, as surgery also carries significant risk. I would love to see data on the risk / benefits of progesterone graphed against age... but no one has that data and so each woman has to make her own decision. If full breasts are important to you, then the least risky course of action may well be to add progesterone, but it might not be effective for you and you may need surgery ANYWAY - OR - estrogen on it's own might provide you with the full breast growth you need - particularly if you are younger.

We just don't know...

My plan is to use it, barring any of the unpleasant side effects, for the first year or two - and plan on reevaluating every month or so. It is not like you have to commit to using the stuff permanently or for any length of time... if you are using it, you can stop whenever you want.

[Super Amanda]

Sorry to hijack your thread with another question, but to anyone here taking prog with estradiol and spiro, are there any side effects when combing the meds?

I want to do anything I can to aid my HRT, (of course) and I do remember my doctor mentioning progesterone last year as an additional option for me. I could go scour the web for some answers, which I still may do, but I would like to hear from the ladies here.

[Frances]

And what is a tubular breast? I only take Androcur and Estradiol (patches) and I don't find my breasts to be tubular.

[GypsyKaren]

For each person who says progesterone will help, you'll get another who says it won't, in any event I'd go with what your doctor says...and Kat says that I have regular girl boobs from estradiol only.

Karen :g1:

[crystalann]

My doctor prescribes Progesterone for most of his clients, I have been on it now 14 months and have had very good results. But we all are different it's best to ask your doctor. Best of luck

[Melissa A.]

Sorry to hijack your thread with another question, but to anyone here taking prog with estradiol and spiro, are there any side effects when combing the meds?

I take all three, plus Avodart and haven't had too many negative side effects. Dry skin is one. Especially in the winter, but it's managable, and I sometimes get muscle cramps in my feet and fingers. I have no idea what that's all about. I drink lots of water. I've only been on progesterone about 6 months out of almost a year and a half on HRT. If my next blood work is negative in any signifigant way, I will have to think about going off the progesterone. As Hope said, it's not like I'm commited to it or anything. I'm pretty happy with all of my results, but I can't definitively say it would be different without the Progesterone.

Hugs,

Melissa:)

[Stephenie S]

As has been said well many times before, YMMV.

But you asked for experience. I have such experience. I took spiro and estradiol for three years. Then I added progesterone. The progesterone did not add any size to my breasts, but it did round out my definitely tubular breasts quite nicely. I would still be taking it if it were not so expensive.

Someone else asked if one could take progesterone with spiro and estradiol. Yes, yes you can. No ill effects. I also take finasteride.

If anyone would like, I can elaborate on the above subject.

Stephenie

[TerryTerri]

Sorry to hijack your thread with another question, but to anyone here taking prog with estradiol and spiro, are there any side effects when combing the meds?

I want to do anything I can to aid my HRT, (of course) and I do remember my doctor mentioning progesterone last year as an additional option for me. I could go scour the web for some answers, which I still may do, but I would like to hear from the ladies here.

I actually take 4 meds. Spiro, Finasteride (proscar), Micronized Progesterone (Prometrium) and Estrogen (pills).

Things seem to be going well for me.

The FACT seems to be that no one really knows and no studies have been performed on the role that Progesterone plays in Transgender hormone therapy. Perhaps some day enough interest will create the desire to create such a study. But, at current no one really knows for sure. And, in actuality ALL these drugs are actually meant for something else anyway. No one has specifically develpoed "transgender drugs". All the drugs used are because of there specific "side-effects" anyway, which is what we actually desire. That's what my reading has discovered. But, I could be and often times are wrong!

[Super Amanda]

Thanks, Terri! Now I'll ask this: Knowing results may vary extremely, do you (or anybody) think I should ask my Dr. to prescribe it to me? Right now I only take spiro and estradiol tablets. I am in fine health, get blood tests regularly, and have no diseases or allergies.

I'm just curious what you all think. I will, as I always do, get as much info on this as I can before asking my Dr about it, but it would be good to tell her what some of your results have been.

[kathrynjanos]

Ladies, thank you so much for your detailed responses. The most important one to me in this case (though by default of content) is Stephenie's. Since she has experience (3 years!) of "before," her "after" statement is very significant to me here. While that means there is the possibility that I could always add it later, I would really rather start from the beginning.

I'm going to pressure my doctor to do some more reading of her own, and I'll point her this way. Perhaps it will sway her. It's my risk to take, it's my body, and I'll be damned if I don't want to try to make it the exact way I want it with the least effort.

I think I may also call Dr. McGinn's office and ask them about their general procedures and their regard for progesterone. I think she may have an opinion on the matter and at least find out if they say "Why not" or "No way." My doctor is inexperienced at this, and generally just follows the clinic's policy on hormones. Though I like her, trust her, and am hot for her, I can't let all that sway me from exploring my options.

Again, yes, if things don't go well for me, I'll just drop the progesterone and not worry about it. But if they do, I'll be very satisfied, and I'll stop using it once I get the results I want anyway.

[Karen564]

I think did fine without the Progesterone.... that is unless I wanted bigger than my heaving 36/38 C cup...lol

My advise on the subject is try it, and go from there...

For me personally, it made my emotional state unstabable...I just didn't like crying all the time...and that was why I stopped taking it...so I wasn't on it long enough or gave it a chance to enlarge my boobs....but if it did, then I'd have D or DD's..

[morgan51]

I'm on spiro e by injection prometrium and avodart the last for 3 years the rest for 8 mo. so far blood work comes back fine. I do agree each girl will have different results and or problems so far I'm very happy with the results. perhaps we could start our own poll to track results/problems as no one seems interested in doing one as it doesn't offer any large financial rewards.

[Elsa Larson]

And what is a tubular breast? I only take Androcur and Estradiol (patches) and I don't find my breasts to be tubular.

For definition, see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuberous_breast

For examples. see
http://www.implantinfo.com/banda4/problemindex.htm#tuberous
Scroll down to the bottom of the page for links to pictures of 16 different women whose tuberous breast deformity was corrected by implants.

On a lighter note, "tubular" was slang for "cool" or "awesome" 30 years ago.

[Billijo49504]

I got mine up to a C cup, and I take Diet Coke and M&M's....BJ

[Super Amanda]

For examples. see
http://www.implantinfo.com/banda4/problemindex.htm#tuberous



Another light note...notice that most of the women have bikini line tans after the correction...I know I would!!!!! :D

[kathrynjanos]

So, I spoke to a girl who had SRS with Dr. McGinn, and she also said Dr. McGinn's view of progesterone is very poor. This has pretty much made up my mind. I may reevaluate IF I don't start getting the results I want, and even then, I'll take it for a short time, but that's where I stand on it.

Thank you ladies for your opinions and experiences. Much appreciated! :)

[Frances]

For definition, see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuberous_breast

For examples. see
http://www.implantinfo.com/banda4/problemindex.htm#tuberous
Scroll down to the bottom of the page for links to pictures of 16 different women whose tuberous breast deformity was corrected by implants.

On a lighter note, "tubular" was slang for "cool" or "awesome" 30 years ago.

Thank you. The term "tubular breast" came from the OP. I did not know what it meant. I will look at the examples.

[helenr]

Elsa's link was a bit shocking. thank goodness for this sort of implant cosmetic surgery. the ladies depicted must have felt far more confident afterwards. While most of on this section of the group keenly want female like bosom, not medical extreme examples. I have ordered some progesterone cream from Puritan vitamins. probably won't do much, but a nice placebo experience-applying it and imagining. pretty inexpensive.

[kathrynjanos]

I'm leery of any unprescribed substance. It's too easy to get fakes and dangerous substitutions, and that's just the beginning of the risks.

Another tremendous scare factor I'd heard recently was from a local friend of mine. She has another transsexual friend who started her own hormone regimen without a doctor. Some time after starting, she simply collapsed one day, and was rushed to the hospital. It turned out that because of the hormones she was taking, she had a hormonal fluid sac develop in her brain, and it had started to exert pressure.

It was successfully removed via surgery, but it was a terrifying experience. Fortunately, it serves as an excellent warning, and it turned out well in the end. The message is clear, however.

[morgan pure]

When I went on higher dose of es and pro and had significant growth spurt. Lowered es dose and eliminated pro and breast development stopped dead. Growing pains stoped. Went back to original regimen and development resumed. Pain came back. I can't use my breast pocket.

Pro increases tissue production.

I'm concerned about shape. Conjugated es is probably best in that regard. The more complex hormone does more things than the simple one.

[LaurenS.]

My endo explained that hormones are prescribed in a way that mimics female hormone production. Females first produce progesterone to help aid in breast growth along with other reasons and then estrogen is produced. He prescribed progesterone for me but after thorough reading on pros and cons I decided it wasn't for me. He agreed that it would present higher risk but also said that after estrogen is introduced adding progesterone after would provide no benefits as far as breast growth. I was OK with that and am very happy with results of just estrogen and spiro. We're all different and no one prescription works for all. We all need to do what we think is best for us in conjunction with our doctors.
Lauren

[noeleena]

Hi..
What we males need to remember is these meds are for women not males . so be carefull . progesterone is a part of a womens make up yet as they age it reduses in time & its needed just the same for thier well being.
if e takes over with out prog women suffer . hence the need to bring thier levels up to a working order . & yes there is some natural ones , just some dont work for every woman.
if we needed prog then our bodys would make it, we dont so & because we are all different males like women it ...may ... help & more likely not, so do your blood tests first if you take it then check again every 3 months & see what your levels are over the time, for me i dont need it as im not lactacing or having babies .or need it for healh reasons .& age comes in to it as well, at 62 not needed.
you can only find out for your self by taking them . if you really needed them .

...noeleena...

[Hope]

So if we needed, say, oxogen our bodies would make that too?

[Felicha]

Hi ladies I take spiro and estrofem and have for the last four years. I used progesterone cream when I was just doing natural breast growth. I stopped using the progesterone after I went on hormones because the estrogen basically replaces the progesterone. You can continue to use the cream for breast massages but after HRT that is all it is good for is a massage cream.
Felicha

[Jessinthesprings]

My doctor feels the same way. I really don't know what to belive as some swear by it. My doctor said he'd prescribe it later on and I think I may hold him to it. If nothing else it finishes off the female hormone coctail, but we'll see how things go.

[kristyk]

I'm taking all three as well and at this point I am still presenting as a male. I seem to cry easily along with my breasts getting bigger which is a good thing and a bad thing. Do you think if I drop the progesterone and kept taking the spiro and estrogen that my emotions would become a little more stable and I would not grow anymore in the chest area at least as fast.

Kristy

[Hope]

I'm taking all three as well and at this point I am still presenting as a male. I seem to cry easily along with my breasts getting bigger which is a good thing and a bad thing. Do you think if I drop the progesterone and kept taking the spiro and estrogen that my emotions would become a little more stable and I would not grow anymore in the chest area at least as fast.

The emotional issues can be from any of the hormones - but particularly the E. But of course the Progesterone can definitely have that effect too. You won't know until you change your cocktail.

Obviously I am not you, and we all have different needs, but if I were you (and I plan to start hormones in the near future- while still presenting as male) I would be hesitant to do anything that might slow or inhibit my breast growth. It's kind of a 1 shot deal, and if it doesn't pan out then you have to live with what you get or deal with all of the yuck surrounding surgery. If you are getting good development - I would stay on that train for as long as I could. And I totally understand the concern about presenting as a guy with boobs. I would guess that a certain amount of binding would help a lot with minimizing projection (no fun I realize) and/or a simple statement to friends / colleagues who notice the boobs along the lines of: "I have recently developed a health condition that plays havoc with my hormones - and a certain amount of breast growth is going to be a part of that. I really don't want to go into more detail about it" It is completely truthful, and should be sufficient.

[Jenny Chen]

The emotional issues can be from any of the hormones - but particularly the E. But of course the Progesterone can definitely have that effect too. You won't know until you change your cocktail.

Obviously I am not you, and we all have different needs, but if I were you (and I plan to start hormones in the near future- while still presenting as male) I would be hesitant to do anything that might slow or inhibit my breast growth. It's kind of a 1 shot deal, and if it doesn't pan out then you have to live with what you get or deal with all of the yuck surrounding surgery. If you are getting good development - I would stay on that train for as long as I could. And I totally understand the concern about presenting as a guy with boobs. I would guess that a certain amount of binding would help a lot with minimizing projection (no fun I realize) and/or a simple statement to friends / colleagues who notice the boobs along the lines of: "I have recently developed a health condition that plays havoc with my hormones - and a certain amount of breast growth is going to be a part of that. I really don't want to go into more detail about it" It is completely truthful, and should be sufficient.

Binding is a bad idea, compressive garments are really bad for developing breasts. Not only dose it apply unnecessary pressure inhibiting proper blood flow, it could also liquidfy the fat cell causing damage and permanent sagging problem.

Bottom line, if you are planing on growing them girls, your are going to have to wear them proudly else your just doing your self a disservice.

[Hope]

Binding is a bad idea, compressive garments are really bad for developing breasts. Not only dose it apply unnecessary pressure inhibiting proper blood flow, it could also liquidfy the fat cell causing damage and permanent sagging problem.

Bottom line, if you are planing on growing them girls, your are going to have to wear them proudly else your just doing your self a disservice.

Good safety tip.

[Karen564]

Do you think if I drop the progesterone and kept taking the spiro and estrogen that my emotions would become a little more stable and I would not grow anymore in the chest area at least as fast.

Kristy

I dropped the progesterone because it made me Very emotionally sensitive & also made me cry a Lot...!!!!
But experienced no loss in breast development after I dropped the P..:)

Just keep in mind, not everyone will experience the same side effects or breast growth..

:hugs: