Introducing Nicole to daughter

[TG_Nicole]

So with the support of my wife we've started discussing with my daughter my cross dressing. We both feel its best to slowly introduce her to this so she can better understand who I am and be non judgmental toward others. So my wife started talking to her about it tonight.
My wife suggested that we all 3 go and by me a dress. And my daughter said she wants to go shopping with just me, daddy daughter shopping, and get a blue dress to wear with blue shoes and a purple belt lol.
My wife also suggested that when daddy (I) am wearing a dress we have a nickname for me, she suggested Nikki and my daughter likes the idea, but she now wants a nick name too :)
So cute I love my daughter. And of course my wife for all the support.

[Satrana]

Good for you and for your family. I am sure your relationship with your daughter will be strengthened by this.

[Andy66]

Your daughter sounds like a great kid. Mind if I ask how old she is?

[Froggy's Angel]

She is 4 :) and thank you, she is great :D
Not trying to hijack your thread honey (Nicole) just wanted to get that answered , love you :)

[Andy66]

That's a great age. Kids are smart enough to understand, but still very open and loving.

Watch out, Nicole, it sounds like she may soon have you dressed up like a cartoon character and forcing you to attend tea parties. :heehee:

[Satrana]

Are you guys concerned about your daughter being able to keep this a secret or are you already prepared for everyone to know?

[msniki48]

Watch out, Nicole, it sounds like she may soon have you dressed up like a cartoon character and forcing you to attend tea parties. :heehee:


Yes but only when there is POP CORN....lol


ps: nikki....that is a great story.

:hugs:

[TG_Nicole]

Watch out, Nicole, it sounds like she may soon have you dressed up like a cartoon character and forcing you to attend tea parties. :heehee:


And the problem would be .... LOL.

Well I've realized in my life that i can't keep hiding this forever. Eventually i NEED to come out to my family. I'm not exactly sure how they will deal with it. But i need to so if she slips it out maybe it will be that conversation starter i need lol.

[Samantha_Smile]

Hello Nic!

Good for you for raising a daughter with a greater understanding of the world around her.

Just one question/proposition.
Isn't 4 a bit young? I mean, how will she respond if its ever brought up with her school mates?
Would she tell her teacher?

[Joanne f]

I am all for you getting your daughter use to the clothes that you wear BUT (all ways that but) i personally do not think that it is a good idea for just you and your daughter going to buy a dress together as although you are doing it for a very good reason the ones in the shop might find it a little unusual and to a certain amount distasteful , but then i may be wrong .

[Froggy's Angel]

I will just say what I said in a earlier thread about Nicole thinking about coming out more, including around our daughter:::

Before we ever considered talking about Nicoles cross dressing or gender identity, it was VERY important to me that I raised a child that was going to be excepting of everyone.
For a couple of years now I have been telling her as often as I can that some kids have two mommies, some kids have two dadies, some kids only have one mom or dad, but all of them are lucky because they have a mom and/or a dad that loves them.
I also tell her that when she is a grown up and IF she wants to get married she can marry anyone she wants as long as they make her happy.
I try and talk about race also, mentioning that even if someone has a different color skin from her they are the same in that they can play the same games and that she can still love them and be friends with them.
And I have told her that I, before I met her daddy, liked to kiss boys and girls, but now I just kiss daddy :)

I think it is very important to teach all of this as early as possible.
I am glad that Nicole and I have a chance to teach her about transgendered people as well.

[EnglishRose]

I'm glad you're taking this road together with your daughter. My wife and I would like our 2 year old to be accepting of everybody, but he's so young that right now daddy will always look like a daddy :D

[Danielle76]

So...am I the only one that thinks age 4 is WAY too young to start exposing her to her dad crossdressing? The fear I would have, were I in that same situation, is that she would start talking about her daddy wearing dresses in school..and YOU KNOW she will. Kids that age are not the best at keeping secrets. You can say all you want that everyone needs to be accepting and love each other and no one should be judgemental, etc., but the sad fact is that people still judge one another. It's unfair that you are going to start your daughter down a path of being ridiculed at school for having a dad that wears dresses. Maybe it won't happen often, but you're in denial if you think it won't happen at all. Kids can be cruel, and the fewer pieces of ammo you give other kids to ridicule your own, the better. I don't know, I only see potential harm to your daughter, and no potential benefit. Seems like a kinda selfish move to me.

That's my two cents.

[Presh GG]

I agree with Danielle 76,
Nuff said

Presh GG

[Joanne f]

Done in the right way i see nothing wrong in wearing a dress or skirt in front of your children if you want to go down that avenue as it is up to us to educate them on the subject and not for the ones who make fun of it to uneducate them.

[KandisTX]

So...am I the only one that thinks age 4 is WAY too young to start exposing her to her dad crossdressing?


Not at all Danielle, I am 100% in agreement with you. At the age of 4, she doesn't know yet the importance of keeping a secret. A four year old child is not capable of "lying" because they are taught to always tell the truth. The idea of keeping such a big secret to themselves is very difficult and they will start with the "My daddy wears a dress" statements and the like. Now, both of my children know about my dressing, but they were both much older than 4 when they were told so they know the idea of keeping things secret. Although, we waited much later to tell our son than we did with our daughter whom we told at 9 years old about Kandis.

Kandis:love::rose2:

[Andy66]

So...am I the only one that thinks age 4 is WAY too young to start exposing her to her dad crossdressing?
I see your point, but is shocking a child with the information when they are older really better?

Right now I'm pondering how I would go about telling my boys, who are much older than 4, that Mommy's new girlfriend is a man... or Mommy's new boyfriend is a lady... or something like that. It might have been better if they had been around more crossdressers from an early age so it wouldn't seem so unusual.

IMHO, it's a difficult thing to do no matter how you go about it.

[KandisTX]

In the case of my daughter, she essentially found out on her own. She would give me a hug and feel the bra straps under my shirt, but not know what she was feeling as she was not yet wearing a bra herself. Once she hit puberty and began wearing a bra, she was pretty much able to figure it out on her own and asked questions like "What are you wearing under your shirt". At first we could tell her "It's something that dad wears to make himself feel comfortable". This was a valid explanation and worked. We spoke to her father (she is my step daughter), and he said next time she asks, ask her what she thinks it is, and if she's right tell her, and if she's wrong tell her. Well, to make a long story short, she did manage to figure it out and when asked what she thought it was, she said "It's a bra, you're wearing a ladies bra". We talked about it for a few hours (her, her mother, and I), and in the end she asked "When can I buy you a bra and panties".

Kandis:love::rose2:

[AliceJaneInNewcastle]

So...am I the only one that thinks age 4 is WAY too young to start exposing her to her dad crossdressing?
While you might not be alone, I'm definitely not going to agree with you.

Young children are far more perceptive than most people give them credit for.

My son, who is now 6, has seen me crossdressed off and on since he was a couple of months old. He refers to Alice in third person in the same way that my wife and I do, and hasn't outed me to anybody no matter how hard I've tried to get him to. :heehee:

As I mentioned (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2044897&postcount=10) in the earlier related thread (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2044962), childhood is the best time to let children know, and the younger the better.

There will always be a risk that a child will out you accidentally, but it's not as big a risk as most pessimists assume. If you make a fuss about it being a big secret, you increase the risk that they will say something accidentally. If you let them know, they will develop the understanding that it is not something that all dads do and that they probably shouldn't tell all and sundry. The younger they are, the easier it is for them to develop this understanding.

Ideally, your daughter will learn to address you by your femme name and refer to "daddy" in third person when you are en femme. If it's "Aunty Nickky", it can help to explain the family resemblance. ;)

[Satrana]

It's unfair that you are going to start your daughter down a path of being ridiculed at school for having a dad that wears dresses.

The problem with your argument is how would women have ever escaped their own gender confinement if any woman with children in past years would not be allowed to work or wear pants in order to prevent their children being picked on for having a weird mom. You cannot break the linkage of oppression by hiding these issues from your own children and letting them absorb society's prejudices. Hiding behind the "we must protect our children from everything" argument means society would never progress on any issue.

Is not the truth that decades ago the mothers who returned to work and wore pants became positive role models for their daughters. Yes it is sad that children can be cruel to each other but that is part of life. The duty of the parents is to make sure they stay close to their children to monitor the situation and to teach them how to cope with prejudice. This is no different than black or Jewish parents for example having to discuss the prejudices their children face.

The other aspect to this issue is that you are only considering the welfare of the child with respect to ridicule. What about the welfare of the child in its relations with its parents? What about the damage from having to lie and hide this from your own children?

[Froggy's Angel]

The fact is kids are going to be picked on for everything, that is part of being a kid.
We will never ever over come the hatred and bias the entire LGBT faces if we don't start teaching our kids to except and respect and love each other.
And finally, as I said on the other thread about Nicole and I discussing this, secrets can be very dangerous, I do not want her keeping secrets from me, so I will never ask her to keep a secret period.

[TG_Nicole]

I'm not naive on this issue. I fully understand that my daughter will face ridicule because of who i am. But let's think about this for a moment. Why were each one of us terrified to tell the people that love us about what we do. It's because were scared that the world won't understand what we do. Well if we continue to keep this in the closet that will never change. I know it will be hard for her and someday I'm gonna have to have a why the world doesn't accept Nicole talk with her. But in the end i feel this is better than hiding the truth from her as a way to protect her.

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

So...am I the only one that thinks age 4 is WAY too young to start exposing her to her dad crossdressing?

Am I the only one who thinks it takes a lot of gall to tell both parents posting in the thread that you don't think they know what they're doing in raising their children.


I don't know, I only see potential harm to your daughter, and no potential benefit. Seems like a kinda selfish move to me.

No potential benefit? So being raised in an environment that teaches you that you should be strong and brave and proud of who you are isn't beneficial at all? You're right, it's much more beneficial to repress yourself and keep part of yourself closed off from your family and bury your feelings, that works out so much better for kids.



Not at all Danielle, I am 100% in agreement with you. At the age of 4, she doesn't know yet the importance of keeping a secret. A four year old child is not capable of "lying" because they are taught to always tell the truth.

I can't believe you have two children and you think this is true. Kids hide food they pretend they ate, they say they didn't hit their sister when they did, they say their sister stole their toy cause they want to play with it, and if you ask them point blank if they did something they know they'll get in trouble for, they'll often say no. They're not sweet little angels who always tell the truth, they're clever little people who constantly test the waters to see what they can and can't get away with in order to get what they want.

[Sally24]

There are always possible negative consequences of any action so you have to look for a balance. I wasn't actively dressing when my children were small so it wasn't an issue at that point. If it had been, I would have at least considered doing this very thing. Is 4 too young? Is 18 too old? I don't know. People are different and kids are different.

I do know that the truth is not a fall back position with me. Whenever possible I go with openess. Telling small children about their parents lives (not including sex) is only natural. You slowly tell them about the bad things in life, but I don't consider gender issues to be one of those bad things.

I applaud you for taking the risks that the truth may cause. I think your daughter will love you all the more for this.

[DonnaT]

I think telling one's kids is better at a younger age. There's less seriousness, and there is nothing wrong with teaching our youth to be more accepting of others. The younger the better, IMHO.

[ReineD]

So...am I the only one that thinks age 4 is WAY too young to start exposing her to her dad crossdressing?

No. Kids deal with all kinds of different situations where they need to learn to navigate through other people's bias, not just the CDing.

Their daughter will develop her own sensitivity as to when it is and it is not appropriate to share the information, and with whom. Much of it will depend on her own resilience of spirit. She may grow up to be militant in her support of LGBT rights and defy anyone who dares to make any comments to her face. :) Or, she may have a more quiet personality and will prefer to keep things private and only tell trusted friends. There are other factors that will influence how she handles it, namely how liberal her friends and her school environment are.

Her strongest asset is having *both* her parents present a united front as to how they wish to handle the situation.
:hugs:

[sherri52]

That's great Nikki. The family that plays together stays together.

[Froggy's Angel]

:hugs:Thank you Reine :D

[MamaJJ]

I think it's great that you both have decided to include your little girl!

I personally believe that the secretive part is really what will effect our kids in the long run. I was raised knowing everyone is equal, people may have different skin color, may dress differently, do different things, think differently or have different beliefs but we're all still people and should be treated the same.

My hubs has just recently started coming out about his CDing to his family, but we've never hidden it from our baby girl. Granted she's only 18mo. old, but we are in full agreement that she be raised in an honest environment and be taught the art of accepting others differences. :hugs:

So, kudos to you two- from me anyway :thumbsup:

[Froggy's Angel]

Thank you MamaJJ, that is EXACTLY what we are/have tried to do.

And Reine said "She may grow up to be militant in her support of LGBT rights and defy anyone who dares to make any comments to her face. :)"
And I wanted to add "Like her momma" :D

[Samantha_Smile]

This really is a metaphorical minefield.

To speak out negatively to it may come across like telling a person how to raise their kids. Nobody wants to hear it.
But at the end of the day, despite my own opinion that 4 is a little young, you can't beat a parent to measure a child's tollerance, inteligence, emotional resiliance or strength of character.
But this is why I think 4 is too young, becuase theyre only just being introduce to mainstream schooling and sociology (otherwise known as how to make friends and influence people) and as such their tollerance, inteligence, emotional resiliance or strength of character is very difficult to gauge.
Theyre only just starting to develop who they are and how they will behave around their peers. Quiet/extrovert/studious/class clown... you don't know for sure how the pressure to fit in will affect them.
Personally, I'd have waited just a couple of years to give them 'the talk', while they may handle it well with mum and dad, around their friends they may find it odd to see that other daddy's aren't wearing dresses and makeup, and then they will want to know why. Then they ask their friends...

I've said all this, and yet I still cant escape from the fact that Nicole and Wifey are obviously making a huge conscious effort to shape a wonderful little person.
Tollerance, peace and love seem to be missing from a great many places in the world, and if everyone raised a child in the broad-minded way these two are, then the world might not be so bad.

I wish you and your family the very best.

-x-

[erica12b]

omg this is awsom , thanks for sharing

[JulieK1980]

I think its fantastic the way you both are in it together in explaining this to your kids! I'd disregard most of the negativity here, only the two of you know your daughter the best, and I'm sure she will adapt fine! I've been weighing the pros and cons of when a good age to let my daughter know about this myself (she's 7) and often come to the conclusion I'm a little late lol! I wish you both the best of luck, and it sounds to me like you are doing an amazing job of raising the little one!

[ReineD]

No you're not, Jody, 7's the perfect age! :)

[AliceJaneInNewcastle]

Am I the only one who thinks it takes a lot of gall to tell both parents posting in the thread that you don't think they know what they're doing in raising their children.
No, you're not the only one. :)


My hubs has just recently started coming out about his CDing to his family, but we've never hidden it from our baby girl. Granted she's only 18mo. old, but we are in full agreement that she be raised in an honest environment and be taught the art of accepting others differences.
You have one advantage over those who tell their children when they're a few years older. Because your daughter knows very early, the probability of her outing your husband by accident is lower.


But this is why I think 4 is too young, becuase theyre only just being introduce to mainstream schooling and sociology (otherwise known as how to make friends and influence people) and as such their tollerance, inteligence, emotional resiliance or strength of character is very difficult to gauge.
The fact that she is finding out around the same time as she's getting into mainstream schooling, etc is why I believe that it would have been better for her to know earlier, not later. If she had time to adjust to the idea before that socialisation had started, the probability of outing would be less. We can't go back in time, so now is the best time, even if that risk is slightly higher.


I've been weighing the pros and cons of when a good age to let my daughter know about this myself (she's 7) and often come to the conclusion I'm a little late lol! I wish you both the best of luck, and it sounds to me like you are doing an amazing job of raising the little one!
Aside from needing to be prepared for the fact that she may well out you accidentally, 7 is good. If you delay too long she'll be heading towards puberty and you really don't want to do it then. :eek:

[Sophie_C]

I think a person's greatest responsibility is giving their child the most positive environment for them to be raised within. Bringing crossdressing into the mix is the complete opposite of doing that. If you want to raise a child who is comfortable with the whole thing, raise them balanced and open-minded, and when they are a grown adult with their psyche fully developed and independent, explain it then.

Anything earlier is selfish and I've not seen a justifiable reason for it yet. The only benefit is to the cross-dresser, not the child.

Let me ask you this question: If you were into hardcore S&M, would you think it would be appropriate to expose a 4-year old child to leather and whips? It's just as inappropriate to expose a child to crossdressing, in the same way.

[JulieK1980]

I think a person's greatest responsibility is giving their child the most positive environment for them to be raised within. Bringing crossdressing into the mix is the complete opposite of doing that. If you want to raise a child who is comfortable with the whole thing, raise them balanced and open-minded, and when they are a grown adult with their psyche fully developed and independent, explain it then.

Anything earlier is selfish and I've not seen a justifiable reason for it yet. The only benefit is to the cross-dresser, not the child.

Let me ask you this question: If you were into hardcore S&M, would you think it would be appropriate to expose a 4-year old child to leather and whips? It's just as inappropriate to expose a child to crossdressing, in the same way.

The comparison doesn't work, that's a strictly sexual lifestyle, so that really depends what age you want your kids to understand sex. and I fail to see what crossdressing has to do with a positive environment. If I saw my dressing as a problem perhaps that would be relevant, but it isn't.

As for being outed, I'm personally indifferent, almost all of the people that matter to me already know, and if others did, I could care less. But I agree puberty is the wrong time, Personally I think before puberty would be best.

[Froggy's Angel]

Yea, no, Nicoles cross dressing is not sexual.

We actually do partake in S&M and that is NOT something we would or will ever "expose" our daughter to.
All of our "toys" are safely locked away and only come out when our daughter is away on weekends.

If Nicole dressing was strictly a fetish thing then obviously there would be no reason whatsoever to ever even mention it,
BUT,
that is not the case.
Nicole wants to eventually do this 24/7, not really possible if she does not come out to everyone, including our daughter.

And frankly I find it disturbing and insulting that you would think that my husband and I would expose our daughter to anything sexual or fetish-like, we are not child molesters or predators or anything like that. :Angry3:

[TG_Nicole]

I think a person's greatest responsibility is giving their child the most positive environment for them to be raised within. Bringing crossdressing into the mix is the complete opposite of doing that.

Sophie it sounds to me like you view cross dressing as a negative thing. That makes me very sad to see.
I don't want my daughter or anyone to have to live in a world where gender roles are strictly enforced. I want to show my daughter a world where she can choose to express her gender anyway she chooses.
Even if it starts small in our home I will always strive to provide that for her. And that IMO is the very definition of a positive environment.
Lies and deception about this are the complete opposite of it.

[KimberlyJo]

I'm really glad to see this topic come up again and I think it is something that needs to be explored more. I posted a thread recently about this where I was asking opinions about my own gender blending around my kids and had some very enlightening replies.

My take on the issue now is if done properly with love and understanding it can be a positive influence in their lives and not something to be ashamed of.

My thread here (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125829)

[ChainedJane]

Nicole, Froggy, I think it's awesome that you told your daughter about it. She's at an age where she's impressionable, but has a mind of her own. Being exposed to people who aren't cookie-cutter humans will help her develop an open mind and an acceptance of things that might not be "normal" to everybody else. If my niece knew of my dressing, she'd probably give me a strange look and say, "You're silly, Uncle Pat." :)

One thing though, as she gets older she might express embarrassment and want to hide you from her friends. If this does happen, please don't force the issue. She's your daughter and she loves you, but her path through life will be rough enough and she'll eventually be as open about you as you are with her, it will just take time.

Good luck Nicole, and I think you're awesome!

[Satrana]

I'm really glad to see this topic come up again and I think it is something that needs to be explored more.

I am glad too. Revealing this behavior to young children is still a bit of a taboo subject in our community. This is to be expected considering the guilt and anguish we have endured ourselves but it is indicative that talking the talk is easy, walking the walk is more difficult. It is easy to rationalize that CDing is not damaging or wrong but much harder to take that idea to heart and change your outlook on life. Some people cannot shed their guilt that easily.

Unfortunately adults routinely invoke "the children's welfare" to control others. Often it is one parent against the other, but sometimes it reflects a person's inability to cope with their own issues. Lets not hide behind "the children" to obscure that some still perceive CDing to be an abnormal behavior, an infliction you should not expose others to.

When I was 12 I became short-sighted and began wearing glasses. Just as I entered those difficult teenage years I became a target of ridicule. Amazingly I, along with all the other children who wore glasses or any other issue which made them different, survived just fine. It probably made me a better person - less judgmental of others since I knew myself what it is like to be picked on. That's life. You have to face your challenges and you become stronger and wiser for it.