Somewhat sensitive question for all the wonderful CDs here:

[Froggy's Angel]

Ok, before I ask, I want to explain where I am coming from.

I am a out and open bisexual. I have been out with a :censor: you if you don't like it attitude for about 15 years. I now volunteer with/for HRC, ACLU, GLAAD, and various other organizations.
I go to PRIDE and volunteer every year that I can make it, even when I was pregnant and swollen and it was 90 degrees out, LOL
The current campaigns I am working on are getting rid of Don't Ask Don't Tell and over turning DOMA.

I have gotten in numerous debates and, when I was younger, physical fights, over the rights and need for equality for the LGBT community.

When Nicole, my SO, came out to me as a CD, I didn't hesitate to except and support her.

And for me it goes beyond the fact that I believe EVERYONE should be open and honest AND excepted and treated equally.
To me it was the fact that this is the person I love and I made a vow that I would love my partner in sickness and in health til death do us part.
Short of Nicole cheating on me I can not think of anything that would cause me to not support and love her.

Sorry this is so long, and here comes the touchy bit...
What, in the opinion of those of you who have not come out, is the worst thing that would happen if you DID come out to your SO?
And, if the worst thing was that he or she would leave you, don't you think that you deserve better?
Don't you think that you DESERVE to be with someone who WILL support you and love you no matter what?

I am not saying come out and your SO be damned, I am just wondering because I can not imagine keeping such a large part of myself hidden from the one person I am supposed to be the most comfortable with,
and I want to understand where you all are coming from.

Hope this hasn't hurt or offended anyone, I just really want to know all of your thoughts on that.
Thank you for your time, sorry so long :)

[wanda jackson]

There is much truth in what you are saying and if we had a perfect world everyone would be treated with equal respect and appreciated for who they are, but...

I think that the key element here is human nature...the deep rooted need to be with someone and the fear of losing that same someone if they come out.
It's almost like an abusive mate situation where someone stays in an abusive relationship because the fear of being alone is worse than the abuse. Not that CDing is in any way comparable to abuse, but the fear of loss and being alone is comparable. That's what causes someone to hide their true nature and stay in an unfulfilled relationship. That's what keeps someone from being able to see that they deserve better.

It's a huge dilemma...to continue hiding and keep the relationship or come out and risk losing everything.

And of course, there's the issue of love, which is what (hopefully) brings people into being a couple. I think that is why a lot of folks stay in an unfulfilled relationship. For me personally, that's why I stayed...I thought that maybe this is how love was after the glitter wore off. Other folks may love their partner so much that they sacrifice their own happiness to keep in afloat.

At this point in my life I will do no more hiding, no more compromise...only the truth, even if it creates a sticky situation.

[melissacd]

Angel,

I did come out to my wife after 15 years together. We struggled with it for another 10 years and then she left me. It was the worst possible outcome and I was crushed that she did not love me enough to work through this together (though she said that she loved me deeply) and yet in the end going our separate ways was the best thing to happen because you are so right - you need to be with someone who can love you for who you really are. Now I take a very different view of relationships, I would rather be alone than pushed to be something that I am not and I have made that very clear to the woman who is my girlfriend now. My transgenderism is a non-negotiable aspect of who I am.

Melissa

[eluuzion]

Don't you think that you DESERVE to be with someone who WILL support you and love you no matter what?

...because I can not imagine keeping such a large part of myself hidden from the one person I am supposed to be the most comfortable with,


I agree with both of these excerpts from your post. As we all know, it looks more acheivable on paper than it ever will be to actually make it a reality in the real world.

I definitely concur with your perspective on relationships. I have always made my feelings clear at the beginning of every relationship I have experienced...

I simply believe that anything can happen at any time, but whatever changes may occur, it should not affect the bond and committment of the partnership. I understand affairs, secrecy and deception, as well as why people do it.

But I believe each partner has the responsibility to make the other partner aware of their intentions, prior to action (like an affair, etc). Although it may desolve the relationship, the person has a right to know.

I am not judging the behavior of those who do such things, I am simply choosing to not make it a part of my life. If you think about it, it is an injustice to both parties. Why not move on and both find a life that makes each happy?

Yes, I am divorced and single...hehehe.

Does not make sense to me either...life is too short..not for compromise, but for deception.

just a thought

[Katesback]

I deal with this often enough when working with CDs and TSs as well. It is the age old debate. I suppose the same question can be posed to just about any segment of society. WHY DO YOU NOT REACH YOUR POTENTIAL??

There are 1000 answers. 1000 excuses. Some get over it and move on and some dont. It is probably just part of human nature. Do I feel bad that some never reach thier potential? YES in some ways but I realize that for some people there is nothing I or anyone else can do to help them. Thats when I simply move on to the next client and see what I can do to help them.

Any therapst deals with this in thier clients. Fact is that in most cases people can only help themselves and if they arent willing to do that then there is nothing that will change who they are!

[Samantha_Smile]

I wholey regret not being able to have told Emma, rather than her find out from an internet history.
I dont think its fair to thiink/speak badly of those who don't come out, as Im sure youre aware, fear is a terrible thing.
I was terrified I might lose the love of my life.
Im still worried I'd lose friends if they found out.
Im still worried my family would judge me negatively if I told them.

Fear sets in over so many years, and its hard to shake.
If youre honest from the start, its easy, I wasnt.
Talk about learning the hard way!

[ErikaLeigh]

1 I am a out and open bisexual. 2 Short of Nicole cheating on me I can not think of anything that would cause me to not support and love her.

The main thing I see being a problem here is these two quotes, how can you be an openly practicing bisexual and then worry about your SO cheating on you?

Im not trying to start anything here, but it seems like a conflict of interest to me.

[Froggy's Angel]

The main thing I see being a problem here is these two quotes, how can you be an openly practicing bisexual and then worry about your SO cheating on you?

Im not trying to start anything here, but it seems like a conflict of interest to me.

That is a good question, and I will tell you a lot of bisexual people are "practicing bisexuals",
I am not.... anymore...

I consider my sexuality to be like my skin color, it is PART of who I am. I will never stop being attracted to women...
BUT, I am monogamous,
so as long as I am married to my SO, Nicole (hopefully forever), I will never again sleep with another person, man or woman.
But to me that does not change the fact that I am bisexual.

Also, there have been times where I was in a bar and started dancing with a girl and ended up in a kiss, Nicole was there when it happened, and I immediately apologized and asked if she was mad,
her answer "Of course not, it's just a kiss"

Hopefully that answers your question. :D

[Samantha_Smile]

That is a good question, and I will tell you a lot of bisexual people are "practicing bisexuals",
I am not.... anymore...

I consider my sexuality to be like my skin color, it is PART of who I am. I will never stop being attracted to women...
BUT, I am monogamous,
so as long as I am married to my SO, Nicole (hopefully forever), I will never again sleep with another person, man or woman.
But to me that does not change the fact that I am bisexual.

Also, there have been times where I was in a bar and started dancing with a girl and ended up in a kiss, Nicole was there when it happened, and I immediately apologized and asked if she was mad,
her answer "Of course not, it's just a kiss"

Hopefully that answers your question. :D

Ya see I dont get that...

If you kissed another man, would he have the same response?
If a kiss is just a kiss then why not do it to guys too?

[Froggy's Angel]

I wholey regret not being able to have told Emma, rather than her find out from an internet history.
I dont think its fair to thiink/speak badly of those who don't come out, as Im sure youre aware, fear is a terrible thing.


Smile, I am so sorry if I gave the impression that I was thinking or speaking badly of people who don't come out!
:sorry:
That was not my intention at all.
I am just trying to understand that is all, and again I am sorry if that was how it came across :sad:

[Tamara Croft]

People have a lot more to lose by coming out than just a wife/SO etc.. You need to look at the bigger picture. There could be children involved, the wife/SO might be an all out nasty person and out the hubby/SO to everyone she knows, making his/her life an absolute misery. Maybe the person doesn't want to come out for fear of embarrassment. There are just too many reasons to list what damage it could do.

[Froggy's Angel]

Ya see I dont get that...

If you kissed another man, would he have the same response?
If a kiss is just a kiss then why not do it to guys too?

Umm, I do not know what Nicoles response would be to me kissing a man.
Honestly Nicole coming out has really changed the way I view a lot of things.
I used to tell Nicole, before she came out, that if he and I ever split up that I would never date another man, and would only date a woman.
But, now, I almost feel bad saying that, because I do not want her femme side to feel like she is not good enough,

I have no idea if that makes sense or not.
Again, this is all knew to me and I am still trying to understand all the ins and outs,
you know?

[Samantha_Smile]

Smile, I am so sorry if I gave the impression that I was thinking or speaking badly of people who don't come out!
:sorry:
That was not my intention at all.
I am just trying to understand that is all, and again I am sorry if that was how it came across :sad:

Wasn't saying that luv.
Was just pointing out that there could be those who take up the negative view because of the lies and mistrust.
I was taking the lead in making some understanding felt.

x

[Mistybtm]

That is a good question, and I will tell you a lot of bisexual people are "practicing bisexuals",
I am not.... anymore...

I consider my sexuality to be like my skin color, it is PART of who I am. I will never stop being attracted to women...
BUT, I am monogamous,
so as long as I am married to my SO, Nicole (hopefully forever), I will never again sleep with another person, man or woman.
But to me that does not change the fact that I am bisexual.

Also, there have been times where I was in a bar and started dancing with a girl and ended up in a kiss, Nicole was there when it happened, and I immediately apologized and asked if she was mad,
her answer "Of course not, it's just a kiss"

Hopefully that answers your question. :D

It would not bother me at all if you had a relationship with another GG I would encourage it as long as I knew about it and I new you were happy and did not interfear with us. to me two woman together is very sexy.:2c:

[Joanne f]

Far to easy of an answer to it to say if your wife/SO will not accept it then she is not the one for you , you could turn that around and say , there are far more things in life than just cross dressing .
As have been said there is often far more responsibilities in a marriage than what the two adults want .

[Sandra65]

Angel, it is a very difficult decision to be your self when there are so many life changing ramifications, especially when wives, children and family are affected by the decision.

It's one I have found myself pondering more and more. Last year I shaved my legs and painted my toenails for the first time and spent almost 2 weeks cross-dressing. The idea of being able to have more freedom to do so was very attractive and I started thinking about leaving. But in the end, I purged a huge amount of clothing and vowed never to do it again. A month later, of course, I bought more clothes.

My wife has known for 10 years but for much of that period had adopted a 'don't ask / don't tell' approach until she came home from an overseas trip to notice my shaved legs. Since then things have been very tense and she recently made an ultimatum that if I start buying clothes again, then our marriage is over. That would lead to family, friends and probably workmates learning why. While I think my daughters may accept, I worry about how my son will react. Stories of children turning to drugs and alcohol are alarming. There are also significant financial implications from separating that can't be ignored. Yes, I realise that sounds shallow and an excuse, but it is a reality.

I look at your question from the opposite direction to try and understand why it is that I would be prepared to risk losing everything, possibly screwing up my kids lives and devastating my parents, just so I can wear a skirt and heels. I struggle with thinking that I am being selfish in satisfying my own desires ahead of others. To quote Mr Spock, "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one".

Yes, people should be more accepting, but they're not. Until then it is safer to submerge who I am.

[Electra]

When Nicole, my SO, came out to me as a CD, I didn't hesitate to except and support her.



Sorry, but I don't understand this. Is your SO, a woman, a CD? But it's quite common that women dress in trousers and shirts and ties without anyone objecting? So what's the problem? Then what do you mean by making an exception of her?

[Froggy's Angel]

Sorry, but I don't understand this. Is your SO, a woman, a CD? But it's quite common that women dress in trousers and shirts and ties without anyone objecting? So what's the problem? Then what do you mean by making an exception of her?

No, I am sorry that I didn't word this better.
My SO is a man genetically, but dresses as a woman. When I am referring to Nicole, the female half of my partner, I always say "Her".
As far as a label, that would be for Nicole to say.

I have been told that CD works as a general term to cover most people and their preferences on this board.

If that is incorrect I do apologize.

I usually just say "Nicole" or "CD" or "my girl", or just say "my partner".

I do not want to say Nicoles male name, and it feels strange to say "Him" while saying the name Nicole. :)

[TG_Nicole]

Yes, people should be more accepting, but they're not. Until then it is safer to submerge who I am.

I think coming out is a very very difficult thing to do. And there can be ramifications that go beyond your relationship. Such as work, kids, finances. But i firmly believe as long as we keep it in the closet nobody will ever accept us. Now i am not trying to judge those that aren't out. I would be extremely hypocritical, I've only come out to 4 people so far. None of them outside of my wife are family.

I just think about what we deal with compared to the gay community. It is only starting to become acceptable amongst most communities because gay people are being very out and public about who they are. People are getting to know them and realizing hey gay people are just people. Some day i hope we achieve that level of acceptance. And even the gay community is still struggling.

Granted some people use CD for different things. Obviously for some its a fetish and part of their private life only. For them i see no reason to ever come out. After all it's not like i go around saying "Hi i like wips and chains and latex!" to everyone i meet.


No, I am sorry that I didn't word this better.
My SO is a man genetically, but dresses as a woman. When I am referring to Nicole, the female half of my partner, I always say "Her".
As far as a label, that would be for Nicole to say.

Well here i am saying it lol. Yes i was born a man. But while dressed i identify myself as a woman. Someday my goal is too be out 100% and be a woman 24/7. So i ask her to label me as a woman on here and when I'm dressed. CD is not just a fetish for me ... anymore. It has become an expression of my gender.

[Kate Simmons]

It depends on the people involved my friend. I'm still paying for my stupidity for insisting on doing this when my wife could not handle it. She left and justly so. Since then I've worked out my personal feelings and no longer allow the process to control me but am hesitant to look for someone else as I don't want to hurt them as well. What I'm saying is that it isn't that easy to let them go and just find someone else who will accept it, not by a long shot.:straightface:

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Hi Froggy,,

I am glad its working out for you gals

As far asyour comment..i think alot of folks spend alot of time excusing themselves for the unexecusable..

to say that a woman that is married to a man for xx years should stay with her man, who after xx years says (i'm a woman, or I'm a woman part of the time, etc) OR the man deserves better!!??!! is just not cutting it with me.

you are bisexual, you have different wants and desires than most wives, you have a better way to make it through..but give a wife a break for crying out loud..there is absolutely nothing at all wrong with being transgendered...but its a big deal, and its something that should be disclosed and shared before the relationship becomes permanent...i made my mistakes...and i (and my ex) have to live them...thats how I feel about it...

everybody is not bisexual, most straight women want to be be married to men, and many of us say sometimes i'm a man, sometimes i'm a woman, or want to be referred to as a woman...that's not what she signed up for

you can not say in one sentence ....blah blah "in sickness and in health.. forever, vows..etc..." BUT then say "oh if he cheats thats where i draw the line.."...you can't have it both ways.

There is a line that gets crossed in marraige or there isnt....just like most EVERYBODY else, you have a line, and its cheating...what gives you the right to draw your own line, and then come and say that if some woman draws the line somewhere else (for example ...her husband says i've kept a 20 year secret, and I think of myself as a woman, and i'd like to spend all my weekends as Kaitlyn)... then the person that lied deserves BETTER!!??? I'm glad you are supporting your husband...but it doesnt make you any better than anyone else...

If a wife takes back her cheating husband, and then posts, "well you should tell your wife you cheated..because she married you for better or worse, you took a vow"..if she leaves you..then you deserve better..

how is that any different? and doesnt that mean your husband would deserve somebody better that you.?

[Froggy's Angel]

The reasons I draw the line at cheating are:

1) They could potentially bring a desease home and make me sick...

2) They could father another child and that takes away from me and my child.

3) It takes affection and time away from me, and guess what I am selfish :tongueout

As far as the bisexuality, maybe it did make me better prepared, but the fact is I was saying that honesty is important.
I do agree that, ideally, everyone tell everyone else up front.
Unfortunately, from what I have read there are a lot of people on here that have been dealing with this for 50 years.
I wasn't around 50 years ago, but going on how unacceptable TG/CD stuff is currently I can not imagine many people excepting it at all back then.

My point is this, cross dressing doesn't endanger the partners health, and if the CD was able to be open and honest with their partner about it, it seems it would not be taking time and attention away fromt he partner either.
So I do not see it as bad as cheating, and again cheating is the reason I would leave. :)

[Elizabeth Ann]

"What, in the opinion of those of you who have not come out, is the worst thing that would happen if you DID come out to your SO?
And, if the worst thing was that he or she would leave you, don't you think that you deserve better?"

She does know, and struggles to be as supportive as she can be.

And I knew she would.

But to watch my best friend of 35 years struggle with this is awful. We are way beyond verbal communication by now, and I can see the pain and fear deep inside her that she tries to hide. I watch her try with all her might to understand something that I cannot understand or explain myself. I can feel her confusion about what's best for the one she loves.

My crossdressing evolved during my 50's, and there was no terrible "coming out" moment.

You ask what's the worst thing that can happen? It's the look in her eyes.

Liz

[KimberlyJo]

"What, in the opinion of those of you who have not come out, is the worst thing that would happen if you DID come out to your SO?
And, if the worst thing was that he or she would leave you, don't you think that you deserve better?"

She does know, and struggles to be as supportive as she can be.

And I knew she would.

But to watch my best friend of 35 years struggle with this is awful. We are way beyond verbal communication by now, and I can see the pain and fear deep inside her that she tries to hide. I watch her try with all her might to understand something that I cannot understand or explain myself. I can feel her confusion about what's best for the one she loves.

My crossdressing evolved during my 50's, and there was no terrible "coming out" moment.

You ask what's the worst thing that can happen? It's the look in her eyes.

Liz

:bighug2: for you and your wife!!!

[kimdl93]

T
I consider my sexuality to be like my skin color, it is PART of who I am. I will never stop being attracted to women...
BUT, I am monogamous,
so as long as I am married to my SO, Nicole (hopefully forever), I will never again sleep with another person, man or woman.
But to me that does not change the fact that I am bisexual.



This brings up an interesting observation. CDers that are looking for a GG companion and it seems that bisexual GGs are a natural fit. My wife is Bi-GG and we've been together more than 10 years.

[minalost]

Hi Froggy,,

As far asyour comment..i think alot of folks spend alot of time excusing themselves for the unexecusable..

to say that a woman that is married to a man for xx years should stay with her man, who after xx years says (i'm a woman, or I'm a woman part of the time, etc) OR the man deserves better!!??!! is just not cutting it with me.

you can not say in one sentence ....blah blah "in sickness and in health.. forever, vows..etc..." BUT then say "oh if he cheats thats where i draw the line.."...you can't have it both ways.

There is a line that gets crossed in marraige or there isnt....just like most EVERYBODY else, you have a line, and its cheating...what gives you the right to draw your own line, and then come and say that if some woman draws the line somewhere else (for example ...her husband says i've kept a 20 year secret, and I think of myself as a woman, and i'd like to spend all my weekends as Kaitlyn)... then the person that lied deserves BETTER!!??? I'm glad you are supporting your husband...but it doesnt make you any better than anyone else...



We ALL draw this line someplace. For each of us it's in a different place and I beleive that no one has the right to tell us where that place should be.
:hugs:

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I'm not drawing any lines..

I totally respect others choices in this matter...its an incredibly confusing and difficult issue for many couples..

Froggy, thnx for your honest answer. It is very well thought out..all those reasons are totally valid..

but I just don't agree with the concept of maligning a woman ( or saying that the man deserves a better spouse...) for leaving because she disapproves of the dressing or the lying

it's just an example of one person having different views than another..not an example of how one woman that accepts her husbands dressing is better than one that doesnt...thats all i'm saying

[ReineD]

Hi Angel,

One of the reasons many CDs don't come out to their wives has nothing to do with whether they think she will accept it or not (eventually :)).

Read this thread (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126425). Some CDers first need to resolve their own inner battles, their own rejection of their femme selves. Unfortunately, by the time this is accomplished, many years may have passed, children may have been born, a career is established, and it is difficult to expect all these other people to suddenly accept and embrace what it took the CDer herself many years to do.

Maybe it is easier for younger generations to accept, say anyone under 35, who grew up with an explosion of information available at their fingertips through the internet, and who certainly grew up during more liberal and forgiving times than the pre 60s-70s era.

It continues to get better though, and I suspect that in our own kids' generation, there will be very few spouses who find out about the CDing years after the wedding.

[EllieOPKS]

So can anybody explain to me what is so wrong about having a private life?

Why do so many people see it so important to be able to dress up as a girl in front of everyone else? What have you gained vs. lossed?

Look, to me every person needs privacy whether you are married or not married, have children or not, have diverse friends or not.

I have been married a long time and love my wife and family. I see their expectations of me as a provider, defender, leader, and friend. I will never do or say things that have the remotest possiblility of ever hurting one of them, or my friends for that matter. That is my top priority but along with that I have my own private life that I don't share with anyone else - including them and never will and I will never feel bad about it. Part of the private life is enjoying crossdressing and exploring my fem side. No shame, but alot of consideration for those who are important to me. But that's me.

No two people are alike and I don't have criticism for anyone that has different priorities than I do, and if being dressed as a girl 24/7 is your top priority you should go for it.
I have read enough of your posts and your losses that again I have to question, what is so wrong about just having a private life?

[MichelleChristine]

Some CDers first need to resolve their own inner battles, their own rejection of their femme selves. Unfortunately, by the time this is accomplished, many years may have passed, children may have been born, a career is established, and it is difficult to expect all these other people to suddenly accept and embrace what it took the CDer herself many years to do.

I can totally relate. I have battled anxiety and panic disorder for many years due to the rejection of my own feelings. I told my wife about Michelle 12 years ago. She accepted (after the usual r u gay stuff). Child came, packed Michelle's stuff. I saw a Dr. for the panic disorder and was given medication. The medication I was given had taken away all sexual urges, but seeing as how there were no "relations" ("I am not a lesbian") it really didn't matter. I was released from my job late last year, so I decided this would be a good time to discontinue the medication (Dr supervised). Funny thing, the urges came back, I am really depressed due to no job or prospects and I have to continue to live with this lie of who I really am. I told my wife that "Michelle is back" since reducing the meds, her quote: "Oh no, no, no. Go back on the meds". Maybe it was a bad idea going off the meds. I'm depressed but have had no panic attacks. Damn if you do, damned if you don't.

Why do I stay? Probably for the companionship and the safety of what is supposed to be "normal".