I found another bigot!

[Kim_Bitzflick]

I found another bigot today! (Like that’s hard to do on the southern united states).

Today I was talking with a co-worker (a male Frenchman by birth who is now a US citizen) about Europe changing it rules for women getting paid maternity leave. The women currently get 10 weeks full salary paid and the European union is voting to change it to 20 weeks.

I told a female co-worker in the next cubical about the paid leave and she said if I wanted that paid leave I could go over there and get a sex change operation. She said “Lots of people do it.” She then went on to say she worked with a man who transitioned to being a woman. Steve became Stephanie. She said that all the women in the office were not comfortable using the same restroom as Stephanie knowing that she had once been a man. She said “It was just weird.” That statement told me that she may tolerate it, but she doesn’t like it. (I guess I won’t tell her about my hobby).

I wanted to ask her if it would have made a difference had she not known Stephanie used to be a man, but I didn’t want to out myself to her, so I just let the conversation end there.

I know not all women feel this way, but some do. I am not trying to put down women. I think women are great, that’s why I want to be one. I am trying to point out that not everyone will tell you that you are the “elephant in the room” that no one feels comfortable with.

So, if you think you are being accepted, it may be that you are just being tolerated.

[Lorileah]

Maybe if she used a different stall than the one Stephanie was in she would be more comfortable.

[MelanieCA]

That statement told me that she may tolerate it, but she doesn’t like it. (I guess I won’t tell her about my hobby).


I'm sorry--but how exactly does this make her a bigot? :idontknow:

[Katesback]

I was about to say the same thing. I dont like certain ethnic (religious views) that see women as pets. That does not make me a biggot. I am just not anyones pet!!!!!!!!

And yes you did get one thing right. A lot of people are tolerant but dont accept you..........because you are white, black, gay, straight, catholic, jewish, Transgender, a republican, democrat, ect. ect..........................

Do ya get it?????????????? REally do you get it. This trans stuff is not about what the world thinks. You want to be a CD then do it. If you want to sit around and think about stuff then fine. Join the countless list of people out there that live thier lives wondering why a pot of gold does not magically materialize on thier doorstep.

Oh and by the way I was once REALLY uncomfortable having a CD in the womens restroom. It was at SCC and I was sitting on the can since I have no choice. I saw a pair of 6 inch heels in the stall next to me pointing toe first towards the toilet and he was peeing!

THAT really made me uncomfortable. I AM NOT A BIGGOT THOUGHT!

[Joanne f]

I think that it is only natural that they will find it kind of weird to them as it is not something that most females will have to deal with most of the time and have very little understanding of what it means to be a TS.

[Starfire Jade]

Why are you giving this person attention? Bigotry is a dying breed, don't keep them alive by giving them the attention they don't deserve.

[Karen564]

It always been like that, Tolerance is a part of life, Just like people don't have to like everyone they work with & seldom do, so they tolerate them just to get along since they have to work with them & be a team member...same goes for us, they may not agree with how we're living our lives because of one personal reason or another, but that's fine by me really, I have no intention of forcing acceptance apron anyone..either they will accept or they won't, it's freedom of choice & free will.. So all I can do is let them see what kind of human being I am, and once they get to know me more over a period of time, they seem to forget all about what I used to be..
The way I see it, Acceptance is like Friendship, it's earned one person at a time, not an automatically given out privilege rewarded to everyone no matter who or what they are..or used to be..

[TxKimberly]

Tolerance is a good start though, don't you think? There are plenty of things in life that we don't like but tolerate and I don't think that is unreasonable.

[JulieC]

So, if you think you are being accepted, it may be that you are just being tolerated.

I think a very large majority of the time that we CDers go out in public and _think_ we are being accepted, we're just being tolerated. We frequently hear people here say "Sales people don't care about you; they care about your money". How do we know? Most of the time we don't, unless a friend of ours stays behind and listens to the chit-chat after our en femme selves leave the store.

Some years ago, I witnessed a woman walking into a convenience store who was dressed exceptionally erotically. It was obvious she was going to some sort of to do out and about that evening. There were three employees in the store at the time, and a handful of customers besides this very revealingly dressed woman.

While she as in the store, nobody said peep to her. Everyone more or less ignored her. She got what she came in to buy, waited in line at the register, paid, and left. Seconds after the door closed, the store erupted in all sorts of chatter about the disgraceful way she was dressed, etc.

It isn't that so many people accept us. It is that so many people don't want the confrontation of actually saying something to us.

[Kerigirl2009]

Exactly what Julie just said. People are at least polite most of the time while we are in their presence, but who knows after we leave what they say about us. I guess I don't care what people say behind my back, but if they get in my face about it then I will let them have it back.
I can talk the talk just as much as everyone else.
I just want to be tolerated by the public and accepted by my family and friends, but if I don't get acceptance, just give me tolerance and understanding. :)

[JulieK1980]

I don't really see anything bigoted by that, at least she tolerates CD's and TG's, I save the word bigot for people that truly deserve it, and actively try to hurt us. The bathroom (in the US) is a private very gender oriented room, its not surprising that people would feel uncomfortable, just like a lot of people would feel uncomfortable at a nude beach. Its all what your used to. I don't agree with it, and I do think it may be a bit closed minded, but definitely not bigoted.

[Slim Jim]

She said “It was just weird.” That statement told me that she may tolerate it, but she doesn’t like it.
And this makes her a bigot? Who's judging who now?

[Karren H]

We had two go through sex changes at one of our mines.... F2M and M2F None of the women miners would let the new woman change in their change house and none of the men would let the new man change in theirs.... so the superintendent ended up letting both them change in his personal change room, not at the same time... this was like the 70's....

[suit]

We had two go through sex changes at one of our mines.... F2M and M2F None of the women miners would let the new woman change in their change house and none of the men would let the new man change in theirs.... so the superintendent ended up letting both them change in his personal change room, not at the same time... this was like the 70's....

like everyone had not seen everything any way and all ways that could matter
in both groups! oooohh you did have and now you dont so ???what like they have not before?..in europe they shower at ski lodges everybody at once!

the real question is did the 2 people have a better qualty of life after than they had before.?

[sterling12]

I'm confused about how having SRS would get you paid maternity benefits? Is someone actually thinking that TS Gals who have gotten The Surgery could actually give birth to children? If that's The Case, someone needs to be enlightened!

About The Only Scenario I could figure out is an Adoption. I will assume if they are enlightened enough to think it's important for The Mother to bond with a new child, it wouldn't matter if we are talking about an actual "Mom Giving Birth Situation" or going through an Adoption Agency.

Your Work Colleague is probably a tad prejudiced, kind of sounds like a swipe at The Transgendered and Europeans, but that's The Way people are. We work to get more tolerance, and sometimes it's a long, slow process!

However, better get her straightened out with an Anatomy Lesson. Or, call The Vatican. If true, there's a TS Birth Mom out their someplace who's on Maternity Leave, and might be a candidate for Beatification!

Peace and Love, Joanie

[AmandaM]

Wow, and gays in the military might fly. Can't wait to see the blood bath! Seriously, some people are "uncomfortable" with gender variant people. And they will be for a long time. I haven't decided on whether it's cultural or biological. If it's cultural, somehow, they learned that men are supposed to be men, and women are supposed to be women. If it's biological, then, it speaks to how one gender views the other and some sort of "natural" order has been disturbed.

[Kim_Bitzflick]

I didn't mean to cause a stir over the word bigot. I may have used the wrong word and I'm sorry. I think closed minded would have been a better choice.

But on the bright side, I think you all have good points on this.


I'm confused about how having SRS would get you paid maternity benefits? Is someone actually thinking that TS Gals who have gotten The Surgery could actually give birth to children? If that's The Case, someone needs to be enlightened!

Peace and Love, Joanie

I'm not sure what she was thinking.



It isn't that so many people accept us. It is that so many people don't want the confrontation of actually saying something to us.

I agree.

[Katie_]

We had two go through sex changes at one of our mines.... F2M and M2F None of the women miners would let the new woman change in their change house and none of the men would let the new man change in theirs.... so the superintendent ended up letting both them change in his personal change room, not at the same time... this was like the 70's....


sorry Karen, but I can't resist...was that you? lmao.....m2f, f2m, m2f...how many lives do you have? are ya like a cat?......

One hell of a way to get your own nice clean personal change room!!!:daydreaming::thumbsup:

[ReineD]

She said that all the women in the office were not comfortable using the same restroom as Stephanie knowing that she had once been a man. She said “It was just weird.”

A GG can feel odd about sharing personal space with a post-op TS without being a bigot. Her feelings are understandable since she likely has not had much prior exposure to gender variance. You might have a point if after a period of time getting used to the idea, this GG refused to share the facilities with the TS. I would hope this would not be the case for most GGs.

As to tolerance vs. acceptance, again it is natural to initially feel uncomfortable with the unfamiliar, no matter what the situation is.

I know this is beside the point, but I don't see why we need separate men's and women's facilities to begin with, when there are cubicles. I've been is unisex bathrooms in Europe and I found the lack of puritanism refreshing. :)

[victoriamwilliams1]

I guess it was a poor statement however the women who feel that way are usually misinformed because the media has set the perception in the mind.

Now part two of this would be what if a F2M transitioned at work how would the men in the office feel? For me it is no big deal however for some it may be. Heck I saw a video on mens room rules and for some reason after seeing the video I noticed that it is true! I.E. 5 urinal stalls in the mens room are present and 3 men are at them the position is 1 3 5 and the 4th man may opt to use a toilet stall and only after the toilet stalls are full will men go and fill up all the urinals.

This is just an observation.

[Alice Torn]

Good thread, and all good replies! In rush hour traffic slowdowns, tolerance is the best most people can do. The first few cd/tg people i met, I was very uncomfortable, but tolerant, and said things after they left. Human nature!! Love the avatar Karren! UUh...mainly the cute cat. Not! You both are! Some people are very uncomfortable , don't understand cats! Learn tolerance and acceptance of felines!

[docrobbysherry]

Several women have mentioned an, "ick, or, creep factor"!:brolleyes:

[Karenmarie]

In the office that I worked a man wanted to trasition completly but during this
process quite a few women had some very good questions. The older
ladies didn't seem to want "her" even near the womens room. In another
area of the office a few of the youger ladies said that they would take "her"
under their wings and alow her to go in their restrooms. As the women explaine "she" would go in to a stall, lock the door, do whatever and get out.
She would come out of the stall fully dressed, wash her hands and fix her
hair and lipstick. It worked perfectly. It did take awhile but eventually
"she" was welcomed in any womans restroom.

Karenmarie

P.S. It took a ton of courage for him to do this and during that time I'm
sure that he felt like giving up but myself and 2 others helped him.

[KimberlyJo]

HIJACK ALERT!



I know this is beside the point, but I don't see why we need separate men's and women's facilities to begin with, when there are cubicles. I've been is unisex bathrooms in Europe and I found the lack of puritanism refreshing. :)

I keep going back to this again and again in my mind. I even just tried to do some research about the history of sex-segregation in public toilets and can't really find much of anything. But it's pervasive in pretty much any "civilized" culture around the world. The idea of Unisex bathrooms is a relatively new phenomenon, even in Europe. In Thailand there is a middle school that actually put in a separate restroom for their transgendered students.

My point (if indeed I actually have one, often I don't) is that the separation of sex in restroom facilities goes so deep and so far back in history that the mindset won't be changed easily.

I will say though if someone is uncomfortable with a post-op TS in a woman's bathroom, well they obviously don't see that person as a woman, and that's a different issue.

[Hope]

Personally I like the implication that "lots of people" go to europe, get jobs (Just try that!), transition, and then adopt children in order to "work the system" for 20 weeks of maternity benefits. You have to be a special sort of company girl to seriously believe that sort of thing. I am not sure that makes her a bigot as much as it just makes her stupid.

[ReineD]

HIJACK ALERT!
My point (if indeed I actually have one, often I don't) is that the separation of sex in restroom facilities goes so deep and so far back in history that the mindset won't be changed easily.

If mindsets against non-gendered restrooms run so deep, can you imagine how much more difficult it is for the average person to wrap their mind around transitioned individuals. Full societal acceptance is desirable and hopefully we'll get there eventually, but it is currently unrealistic. More transpersons need to make themselves known to the public in order to help change social views.

In the meantime, tolerance is not such a bad thing. It indicates a person's willingness to begin to move forward with their thinking.

[Joanne f]

The thing is that you can change your appearance so that people can see you look like what ever you want to be but you cannot let them see what is going on inside of your head , that takes time for them to get to know you and understand the way that you are thinking , it is all to easy for them to think " if that person use to be a man or woman then they may be still thinking like a man/woman " although we know that is not so they do not and it will take them time to realise that , once people realise that TG people think differently they may start to accept a lot more.

[Satrana]

In the meantime, tolerance is not such a bad thing. It indicates a person's willingness to begin to move forward with their thinking.

When I first ventured out in public it was always at night and I developed a trick of using shop windows as large mirrors. I would imagine I was passing well when walking along as most people seemed not to notice me but when I stopped and looked in my makeshift mirrors a different world emerged. Most people were stopping for a double take, some pointing at me mouthing obscenities. Their body language left me in no doubt that they did not appreciate my presence on the street.

I really wish this thinly veiled tolerance was a sign of a willingness to move forward but I think it is mostly just timidness to express their thoughts in today's progressive environment. To me tolerance would be people not caring about seeing a CD but in my experience people definitely do care but wish to avoid a confrontation. This is just prejudice being swept under the carpet.

I think real tolerance will be gained only once the male gender role is redefined to allow all men to openly express feminine values. Until then we will remain oddities linked to unsavory behaviors and the targets of hate and ridicule. Even if more TGs were seen in public this would change little because we are too small in numbers to make an impact.

Put it another way. For many years I would see punks routinely gather in certain areas of town. Even after years of regular appearance they would still be stared and cursed at. Simply appearing in public is not enough to win over the hearts and minds of lay people if you have a bad public image.

There is a complete disconnect between the "normal" man and a CD. If people cannot relate to us then we will never be accepted. If there was some sort of masculist movement that convinced society to allow all men to express femininity then a connection would be made - we would be seen as just a more extreme state.