The Battle Is On

[Kendra Amaya]

This is going to be a pretty long post so bear with me As I go through everything. First the back story. I have been dressing at work for the better part of 2 months. Mainly skinny jeans, blouses and flats of some sort. I wear eye shadow, keep my hair in a high ponytail, and wear dangle earrings. The past week I've been occasionally wearing skirts with the past 3 days being exclusively skirts, all knee length or longer (this detail does matter later on). Today one of the store co-managers called me into the office and told me that the regional HR supervisor says that I cannot wear skirts unless I am transitioning, which I haven't decided if that is something I wanted to do. Now I keep a printout of the company dress code in my locker so I know what it says. Here is the main points concerning my dressing as it pertains to the dress code. In place of the company name I will be replacing it with (*) to avoid any possible legal ramifications. I'm no lawyer but not taking any chances.

This policy applies to all associated who work for (*) ... except for facilities in the following states. (None of the states are Connecticut which is the state I work in so according to the policy itself it is valid in my state.)

Policy

(*) requires it associated to dress in a manner that is both professional and relaxed and appropriate to the facility, as described below.

Appearance Requirements

Clothing


Clothes, including any company issued apparel, must be neat, clean, and without holes or ragged edges.
Clothes must fit well and not be too tight or too loose.
Shirts showing bare midriff are not allowed.
Pants and skirts must fit properly and may not hang below your hips. Low-rise pants may not show the midriff when walking, bending, stretching, or leaning. Windsuits, sweatpants, and spandex pants are not allowed.
Undergarments must be worn and must not be visible.
Closed-toe shoes are required for all associates. Closed-heel shoes are not required, except in certain positions (not mine). Athletic shoes that are clean and in good condition may be worn.
Hats may not be worn unless required by the work area, or for associates working outside. "Do-rags" and "head-caps" are not allowed.


(In the next section I am omitting everything except the pants/skirt requirements as it is the only part appropriate for this particular post)

Dress Code Requirements

Solid light tan to dark brown pants or solid light tan to dark brown skirts or skorts of your choosing. Skirt or skort length must be no shorter than three inches above the knee.

(The following section is what convinced me to start dressing at work to begin with.

Transgender Anti-Discrimination

Nothing in this policy is intended to violate any state or local laws regarding gender identity or expression. To the extent the policy identifies accessories or items of clothing that may traditionally be associated with a particular sex or gender, the reference is intended to be neutral and non-discriminatory regarding which sex or gender can use or wear the particular item. The administration and application of this Dress Code Policy will likewise be non-discriminatory regarding gender identity or expression in accordance with applicable state or local transgender anti-discrimination laws.

Compliance

The management team is expected to use good judgment and discretion in enforcing this policy for consistency in their facility.
An associate who does not comply with this policy will be reminded by a supervisor to ensure that the associate understands the policy. Associated may be required to change their clothing to meet the guidelines of the policy.

This is where the issue is. The regional HR manager says I cannot wear skirts unless I am transitioning. No where in this policy does it say that. Also, she says that the Transgender Anti-Discrimination section is not valid in Connecticut since there are no anti-discrimination laws in this state. Apparently, according to what I was told today by my co-manager, they didn't have any problems with me wearing the skinny jeans, flats, makeup or earrings, just the skirts. I am trying to figure out how to proceed with this since the HR supervisor is basically contradicting the company's own dress code policy. I'm thinking of having a meeting with her first to bring the issue up and if her answers don't satisfy me I may go above her. In this company they say it is an "Open Door" policy to keep going to the next higher ranking person to have your issues resolved. I think it may be time to see just how open that door is. I'd like to know what you all think about this situation. Sorry this is so long but I wanted to be sure you had all the information needed for this.

[sarah_alexander]

Sounds to me like you are absolutely able to wear a skirt, or any item for that matter as long as its not too short. Stand up for yourself, and all of us for that matter. Transitioning has nothing to do with it, its your choice, and mine, to dress as we choose!

[Alexei]

Well, unless I misread (which is a possiblity, legal documents aren't easy) Connecticut does have anti discrimination laws. And assuming what you posted is the dress code verbatim, it looks to me like you are in the right.

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/TOB/H/2009HB-06452-R00-HB.htm


Statement of Purpose:

To prohibit discrimination on the basis of gender identity or expression.


This act shall take effect as follows and shall amend the following sections:

October 1, 2009

[Tina P Hose]

I don't know dude, you have a job and that is a good thing. To wear a skirt at work or just pants. Is it all that important to risk a job ? A job is a job, and there are many people who are not working be it people in transition, crossdressers, gays, hetros, or whatever. Peace out, Tina.

[Slim Jim]

You may push this issue and be able to wear a skirt. so what?
But there are many other reasons a company can find to terminate an employee if they really want to. think about it.

[ChainedJane]

Looks to me like your company's dress code and the State of Conn. (the link that Sarah posted) agree that you're allowed to wear a skirt.

Please meet with the HR Supervisor and bring a printout of the link Sarah posted or call a lawyer and/or you company's employee advocate. You are well within your rights and I would keep going as high up the chain of command as you need to. That being said, comply with their request for the time being, it will show them that you're not unreasonable and keep everybody willing to cooperate as much as possible.

Good luck!

[Teri Jean]

Kendra I think you have a valid point and need to pursue it. Without tipping your hand I would also look for an attorney if the discussions go south. If nothing more than legal advise.

Teri

[Jamie48]

Sounds to me like you can wear a skirt. No where does the policy state a guy can't wear a skirt. They just addressed the color & length. On the other hand do you like your job? They may find another way to get rid of you. Do you have the funds or legal warewithall to get you job back if you wanted to press the issue? Just a thought.

[Mitzi]

I don't know dude, you have a job and that is a good thing. To wear a skirt at work or just pants. Is it all that important to risk a job ? A job is a job, and there are many people who are not working be it people in transition, crossdressers, gays, hetros, or whatever. Peace out, Tina.

Maybe it's my age (ooold...), but I agree with Tina. Unless you're willing to make a martyr of yourself, is it a fight worth waging? Even if you win, you may limit your prospects for advancement.

If Connecticut is an "At Will" state, or whatever it's called, an employer can fire you at its will. And you narrow future job opportunities.

So, you need to assess how important this is to you.

My:2c:

Mitzi

[sherri52]

I think your right as the code says "or expression", certainly fits. At the same time if you are making decent money is it worth the posibility of losing your job.

[Jodi]

Yes, this is a battle you mght be able to win, but---Have you heard that it is possible to win the battle and still lose the war? Think about this. How valuable is your job to you? Do you have the skills to easlily move to another job.

Jodi

[MAJESTYK]

I agree with what everyone says about losing your job but, to me it would be worth the fight. If we continue to say " well it's not worth it " then why do we always say we should have the right to wear what we want if we arent at sometime willing to fight for it. If we continue to just give up, then are we really very worthy of any knid of rights?
Just my 2 cents and, by the way, I dont currently have a job but I am looking dressed just the way I am. Admittedly, I am trans and not a crossdresser but It doesnt make a difference.

[Kendra Amaya]

I thank you all for the suggestions. I will probably comply with their wishes but still mention that Connecticut does have transgender anti-discrimination laws. If I wanted to push the issue I could, but I will just let it go. Many of you are right and the job market is practically non existant. My skirts will always be waiting for me at home. Thanks all for the advice.

[Tranny Tee]

Without question you are right. Your company's policy specifically mentions gender expressin which is what you are doing. The question is, sadly, how far do you wish to go to prove that you are right? If you wish to pursue the issue, assuming you are not a member of a union, see if there is a local LGBT organization which will help you or check with the ACLU.
It may be easily solved just by a phone call to the corporate HR division.

Good luck to you in your fight, by standing up for your rights you are standing up for all of us.

[Maria in heels]

Kendra....
I do work in Connecticut as well, and Connecticut is a very very strange state at times. I live in New York, and New York is much more rigid and firm in matters. In the State of Connecticut, it is an "at will" state and I have the right to terminate an employee at any time, even if the reason is not valid in someone else's eyes. The same goes for unemployment, but in a case such as yours, they will defer decision and recommend that you speak with a representative of the State of Connecticut Anti-Discrimation Unit in Waterbury, Connecticut. It was strange that the Labor Board would just recommend that I call the other unit, almost as if they were "passing the buck". Now, New York was cut and dry...they denied unemployement to the individual, based on the simple facts.

Sorry to ramble on, but as others have said, you may win the battle, but in the end, you may not win the war (loose your job) In a "at will" state, an employee can phase out your posiion, or just terminate because "things were just not working out" to "attitude unbecoming of an employee". Please be careful with what you decide, and it sounds like you are realizing that it isn't about the battle in this case, and once you bring up your point, you are choosing to not wear skirts...that is your right as a person.

[Hope]

It is pretty clear that your HR person is misinterpreting the policy for whatever reason.

Your HR person seems to be making the interpretation that the policy conforms to non-discrimination law in your jurisdiction, (correct) but that if there is no non-discrimination law in your jurisdiction that the non-discrimination policy is void (incorrect).

The policy states that "Nothing in this policy is intended to violate any state or local laws" meaning that a state or local law would supersede the policy (duh) but that does not imply that absent a non-discrimination law, that the policy is not in force, which appears to be the argument your HR supervisor is making.

The policy also states that "To the extent the policy identifies accessories or items of clothing that may traditionally be associated with a particular sex or gender, the reference is intended to be neutral and non-discriminatory regarding which sex or gender can use or wear the particular item." So, basically, it is suggesting that any person of any gender can wear any item of clothing, regardless of the gender traditionally associated with that item. Yahtzee. The law could force the policy to be less (or conceivably more) restrictive, but absent a law (your HR person's contention) the policy is pretty clear - it's a gender bending free-for-all, provided your outfit complies with the other requirements of the policy.

If this is a fight that is worth it to you, it is pretty clear that you have the goods.

Also, you know, I'm not a lawyer and all that junk.

[Nicole Brown]

Hi Kendra,

I believe you are making the right decision. My company also claims to have and open door policy which allows employees to escalate their managers decisions to an upper level manager. Please note that I use the term 'claims' because this statement is all smoke. I know of more than several employees who have made use of this method of escalation and none of them are still with the company.

None of them were released from the company for anything that had to do with reason for the escalation, there were always some trumped up charges that were used to justified the firing. Yes, you definitely made the right choice.

[Michelle-Leigh]

Sounds to me like you are absolutely able to wear a skirt, or any item for that matter as long as its not too short. Stand up for yourself, and all of us for that matter. Transitioning has nothing to do with it, its your choice, and mine, to dress as we choose!

Not advisable, unless you have another job or means of income handy ! Regardless of what that dress policy says, the people above you pretty much have the power to fire you at their slightest whim - and if you continue to buck them, I'll bet my prettiest dress that they will do so ! And they can get around any "wrongful dismissal" litigation by simply using the "elimination of your position" dodge, you can be sure of that....

[CamilleLeon]

It seems pretty clear that you have the right to dress however you want, since gender is apparently not supposed to be taken into account.

Part of the problem is that not many people are aware of crossdressers because a lot of us are in the closet so it's awesome that you're doing this at work. If more people become aware of who we are, then we'll be more accepted. Regardless of job availability, you have rights as a person to dress however you want. Unfortunately, the reality is that you gotta have a job, so you probably made the more responsible decision.

Still, that must've been a pretty sweet gig for awhile

[txrobinm]

Wow! You can wear femme clothes and makeup to work and still have a job! Good for you!

Don't count on the open-door thing- it's not sincere. You're already pushing the envelope, and that's great! Push to far, though, and it will break, and then you aren't furthering our mutual cause or your individual fight (a paycheck).

[Shelby]

You did mention one thing that should be mentioned to HR. You said you haven't decided if you wish to transition. By choosing to wear a skirt to work, it is helping you to decide if this is what you want. So by telling you that you simply can't for no other reason then it could be construed as inhibiting your decision. It is a gray area, but unless they are saying that you have to decide that you will be a male or female, then they missunderstand the challanges of being transgendered. Just my 2cents.

[Alice Torn]

With jobs vanishing everywhere, and more, and more people desperate for work, I would simply not wear skirts at work. Remember that song,"Take this job and shove it?" Today, it is, "Take that job, and shove it back to me!!!!!"

[kellycan27]

I just have a couple of questions.. First off, Are you seeing a therapist or doctor that can provide you with documents backing your claim? If you are in fact claiming to be tg. Does the company associate "gender expression" with being TG?

[eileendover]

Kendra, I tend to fall into the "pick your battles" camp, especially in this economy.

But perhaps you could ask your HR department to be more specific and indicate exactly what sections of the dress code you violated. And would they mind putting it in writing? Typically, official "talks" with an employee need a paper trail.
I'd be curious to see how they'd react, plus you would have a document you could show to an attorney.

But as others have said, if they are interested in seeing you leave, they can always use the old not-a-good-fit-with-the-future-plans-of-the-company trick.

Choose wisely, Grasshopper. :hugs:

[Kerigirl2009]

I agree that A JOB is a job and even though you may win the battle to wear a skirt at work, you are setting yourself up to be reprimanded for other smaller issues that may not be that important but can build up and allow them to terminate you for other reasons that will not allow for any sort of recovery on your part. Maybe state to them that this is a choice but for the betterment of the company I will wear the pants however you would like to have further discussions about this topic. Comply with what they are saying to keep your job.
It is not easy being with out work as I have been out of work for 7 months and would gladly take your job without the skirt.

[sterling12]

I'll go along with Kelly. Since they made The Claim that you have to be "In Transition," I think it's reasonable that they define what that is! Since The Policy says nothing about Transition, they might be able to "make it up" as they go along, but legal will advise them that "making it up as we go," can be very dangerous.

One other question, do you work under a Union Contract? If it gets sticky, you might want to involve your Shop Steward.

I'm not a Lawyer, but I think they have a big flaw with their policy. It doesn't state "In Transition" anywhere. You can safely claim your transgendered, and that's what That Policy addresses.

It's your call, as others have said, "Do you want to go to War with them?" The only hope I can give you is that I have worked in management positions a lot, and yes; they often do take liberties and make policy on their own....when they shouldn't! This is often how they end up in big, fat, law suits....and that's what makes a lot of Plaintiff's Attorneys very happy!

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Midnight Skye]

Yeah... this is an ugly question of what do you want to fight for. And there's a kiss of a fine line in there somewhere as well. Which is to say few of us would argue that your job can ask you to dress up X way on a certain day... but when that standard is different for each sex... and you're in-between where do you fit?

If you yourself are inbetween, then I would respect their attempts to work with you (which by the sounds of it, they honestly are trying to give you as much as they can within their comfort zone). If you want to stay in between and fight for it I would recommend putting something in writing on your concerns and perhaps a meeting. But then I would follow the policy as it stands currently... then possibly later as they've seen you are a solid worker worth hanging onto, push it more... but thats just how I go at things -shrugs-

Either way... you're totally cool for how much you've done so far!!! I just wanted to say that :)

[Loni]

there is right,

there is wrong,

and then there is a paycheck.

you are well with in your rights to have a skirt on, you could press the issue and ALL gg"s would have to have pants on...NO skirts....would that be a win??

but win or loose, would you be making a frend or for of one who can get you fired?

companys can make it "hard" for you, were you can only take it the hard way...or quit.
like moved to a dead end spot. less pay, less hours, less everything. or just "downsize" your dept.
sometimes the squeaky wheel is replaced.

sometimes winning is not quite a good thing. what can you loose here. could you get another job??

loni

.

[Hope]

I have to say it is disheartening to see so many of us here suggesting that we should be satisfied with the erosion of personal liberty for a paycheck.

[SherriePall]

If I were in your shoes, and knowing what we all know now, I would inform HR that you will forego the wearing of skirts, but would they please give you chapter and verse where it states that you can't. I would also give a copy of the state's law to HR so that they have it on file.
This way HR should realize that you have the right to wear skirts, but are not going to press the issue for now.

[MonicaJean]

there is right,

there is wrong,

and then there is a paycheck.

Well stated.

What's this whole thing worth to you?

Could you find another job that would allow you to wear skirts & such w/o all the policy muck? ..then you would win the war but lose the battle. Or work part time somewhere else?

[Kimmy55]

I work for an extremly large corporation with offices world wide.We used to have dress policies for each individual site.Now they have all been replaced a a coverall "Code Of Conduct" which allows them to release you for any reason.Be careful.

[AllieSummers]

I think you have received some good advice here. I could walk in tomorrow and push the dress code limits but I know that it would at least change the way my superiors looked at me. Employers want hard working team players. I wouldn't do anything to make it you against them. That will seriously affect your chances or advancement and possibly even your raises.

I think it still wouldn't hurt to have a sit down with you manager and let them know that you think the dress code does allow you to dress the way you want (within reason) but you do respect their view and are willing to compromise. At least at that point you have put you opinion on the record and let them know that you are a team player. It might actually earn you some browny points. :)

Kisses,

Allie

[Ruth]

Sensible advice from Allie. If this job is important to you, play it their way while you are in the workplace. Then go home and have it your way.
I think we all have had to do this in lots of small ways, not related to CDing, when working for a big company. Compromise rather than confrontation.

[Genifer Teal]

Nothing in this policy is intended to violate any state or local laws regarding gender identity or expression.

The key to what you can wear lies in this statement and what CT law says. Be satisfied with the freedom to dress as you already have at work. In the mean time you can find out more about the law and discuss that with HR if you wish.

Gen