SO's

[kimdl93]

this is so common a theme that maybe this post is superfluous,
but here's my question:

Do transgendered individuals have any obligation to "come out" to their SO? Or, if they haven't an SO, do they have a similar obligation to a prospective SO?

My bias is in favor of openness, but I also understand and feel very deep empathy for those (and it appears to be a large majority) that feel compelled to hide this part of themselves.

[MarinaKirax]

I can only say that from my point of view, the biggest 'hurt' to my SO was the deception. It was NOT the idea of CD or TG. It was..."you have deceived me for ...(X) years. If they find out, so many things click into place. The more things make sense to your SO, the more things click into place, the more she will retrospectively feel the absence of that last 'Piece' of the puzzle that's been missing for the recent years.

I write this as someone whose wife now knows. I also write this as someone who, if still undiscovered, would be saying "yeah, that's fine for you... you somehow found an unusual woman who can deal with this, but those are few and far between". Maybe. But if you are a CD in a longterm committed relationship, I wager that your SO's commitment matches yours. there are a lot worse things that could affect your marriage; paralysis, cancer, dementia, infidelity, financial ruin, etc. All I'm saying is that in a committed relationship, the CD'er will tend to underestimate the toxic effects of continued deception, and overestimate their partners difficulty with acceptance.

Now, I could be wrong, but.... I'm almost never wrong. :) Marina

[kimdl93]

Nay, I bet you're right again, Marina!

[Kimberly Michelle]

I agree entirely!!! Neither person can be happy or maintain a fulfilling relationship with this so very important ingredient of your personality hidden away, trying to "steal" moments to express your desires only to put them back in a box in the attic or garage when you are really not finished or fulfilled.... my opinion only, not necessarily those of this station! Kim

[Kathi Lake]

If all you have is an "O" then why bother. If the "S" in SO really stands for Significant, then yes, you should come out eventually. You owen them honesty. How that coming out occurs, is entirely up the the two of you. No one size truly fits all. It's one of the hardest things for us to do - admit weakness - but one of the best. Open, honest communication is good.

I say this, however, as someone who is not totally truthful to my wife. She has said she wants noting to do with it, and I respect that request. Still, I feel I am being dishonest by agreeing to her wishes and not telling her of the times I go out. Like I said, every situation is different.

Kathi

[kimdl93]

Kathi,

I understand your situation - admire you for honoring your wife's prefeences. At least she's aware, and for now, made a choice. Perhaps that will change over time, perhaps not.

[Froggy's Angel]

In my opinion, I know as a SO of a CD I was relieved to have the honesty.
Nicole was depressed and miserable and trying to fight that side of herself for a long time. She buried herself in work and video games because she didn't know how to tell herself, let alone me....

We separated for a while and nearly divorced and FINALLY she came out to me and i was so relieved to know it wasn't a case of cheating or being unhappy in our marriage... God, I can not even put it into words.
And not only happy that it wasn't something, that, in my opinion, is worse that CDing
BUT, SO HAPPY that she was being HONEST with me! :D

I agree the deception is the hardest to take, and it seems the longer it was hidden, the CDing, the more miserable both of us were.

But that is just me :) I kind of got in trouble on here in the past from asking why so many people don't feel like they deserve to have an excepting SO.
I must have worded it wrong cause quite a few of the Cds on here got mad at that. :sad:

[Tina B.]

Many post can be found on this forum on this topic. From those that told and where dumped, Caught, and then where dumped. To those that where caught and where forgiven for the deceit, Then there are the stories of those that told all, and where shocked to find total acceptance, and even a willing partner to play with. It's all out there and everyone has to figure out who to tell and when, and sometimes, who not to tell because the cost can be very high. There just is no stock answer to that question!
Tina:2c:

[NikiMichelle]

I can only say that from my point of view, the biggest 'hurt' to my SO was the deception. It was NOT the idea of CD or TG. It was..."you have deceived me for ...(X) years. If they find out, so many things click into place. The more things make sense to your SO, the more things click into place, the more she will retrospectively feel the absence of that last 'Piece' of the puzzle that's been missing for the recent years.

I write this as someone whose wife now knows. I also write this as someone who, if still undiscovered, would be saying "yeah, that's fine for you... you somehow found an unusual woman who can deal with this, but those are few and far between". Maybe. But if you are a CD in a longterm committed relationship, I wager that your SO's commitment matches yours. there are a lot worse things that could affect your marriage; paralysis, cancer, dementia, infidelity, financial ruin, etc. All I'm saying is that in a committed relationship, the CD'er will tend to underestimate the toxic effects of continued deception, and overestimate their partners difficulty with acceptance.

Now, I could be wrong, but.... I'm almost never wrong. :) Marina



I would like to echo this sentiment and add a few of my own thoughts too:

I hid my CD'ing from my wife for 23 years and we have been married now for 32+ years...

...I was "terrifed" of losing her and everything I had
...I had not accepted myself for who/what I was
...she too felt betrayed from what I had hidden when I told her
...she was relieved in some respect to hear I had CD'd from a very early age
...she knew "something was not quite right" for a while and thought I was having an affair
...this just about killed me with shame when I found this out (we do laugh at this now as we say the other woman was "me"!)

I just wish I had come clean sooner but we are stronger now than ever.

Would things be as good now if I had come out earlier I can't say??? Maybe but maybe not as the foundation of our great marriage has been forming for 33 years??? Would that have undermined it if I told her earlier?

[DiannaRose]

I'm with Marina also. My wife was more hurt by the lie than the fact.

My therapist says that the "hiding" of self (or a deep part of self) is very common among trans individuals. It's a sort of control thing, because so much around us is out of our control (we feel).

And for some, letting go of that part they've hidden so long is like giving up the core part of themselves, and therefore (again, in their minds) all remaining control over their lives.

There's more to it than that, of course, but that's the gist of what she told me. :)

[Cutedot]

I can only say that from my point of view, the biggest 'hurt' to my SO was the deception. It was NOT the idea of CD or TG. It was..."you have deceived me for ...(X) years. If they find out, so many things click into place. The more things make sense to your SO, the more things click into place, the more she will retrospectively feel the absence of that last 'Piece' of the puzzle that's been missing for the recent years.

I write this as someone whose wife now knows. I also write this as someone who, if still undiscovered, would be saying "yeah, that's fine for you... you somehow found an unusual woman who can deal with this, but those are few and far between". Maybe. But if you are a CD in a longterm committed relationship, I wager that your SO's commitment matches yours. there are a lot worse things that could affect your marriage; paralysis, cancer, dementia, infidelity, financial ruin, etc. All I'm saying is that in a committed relationship, the CD'er will tend to underestimate the toxic effects of continued deception, and overestimate their partners difficulty with acceptance.

Now, I could be wrong, but.... I'm almost never wrong. :) Marina

Marina, as an SO who learned about my BF's CDing only 8 months ago, I have to agree with you. I was committed to him before, and continued after I learned of "her" existence. She and I are good friends now. He and I are still working out the trust issues. It has been an interesting ride, a rollercoaster ride, but we now have a much deeper relationship. Yes, there are issues, but we are much more open to communicate and appreciate each other.



If all you have is an "O" then why bother. If the "S" in SO really stands for Significant, then yes, you should come out eventually. You owen them honesty. How that coming out occurs, is entirely up the the two of you. No one size truly fits all. It's one of the hardest things for us to do - admit weakness - but one of the best. Open, honest communication is good.

I say this, however, as someone who is not totally truthful to my wife. She has said she wants noting to do with it, and I respect that request. Still, I feel I am being dishonest by agreeing to her wishes and not telling her of the times I go out. Like I said, every situation is different.

Kathi

Kathi, I'm sorry about your wife's reaction. Maybe you could try the Wives and CDers Bill of Rights (http://www.tri-ess.org/Wives_CDs_BofR.html), which was particularly helpful for me when I learned about "her". I found it a great tool to generate open dialogue, and also to teach both sides how to proceed with caution and to care for the other's limitations. I hope through communication, your wife might become a true SO. Not a Significant Other, that's for common folk, but a Supportive Other, who understand and accepts the beauty of having a gender-gifted partner.

Kim, answering your original question, if you want a true, open, complete relationship, then give your girlfriend the chance to be an SO. She might freak out and run, or she might stay. It's up to you, but, IMHO, a life without lies is much easier to live.

Good luck, ladies, to all of you.

Hugs,
Dot

[Shayna Ashley]

I recently came out to my wife about 8 months ago. It was at a point where I had to tell her. The secret of keeping this inside was tearing me up inside. I hated hiding a huge part of me from my wife and pretend to be someone else. I finally told my wife and it took a while to put things together. She almost left me, but we where lucky enough to find a good therapist to help us work through this. We are still married and she is willing to give me some time to dress, but she doesn't want to be around when I do it.

My wife also felt deceived by the whole thing. We have been married seven years when I told her. I thought for sure that marriage would make this all go away, but it didn't work. For the first three years of marriage I was okay , but then my desire to cd came back and I started dressing again behind my wifes back. I have to say that I feel so much better now that my wife now knows. Sometimes we joke about it and I hope that she will one day want to be apart of it. IF not then I understand.

I guess what I am trying to say is that being honest is the best thing. If not, then one day you will be discovered and have so much more damage to repair. It is a scary thing to do telling your SO, but it is so much of a relief for me now that my wife knows. She still loves the guy side of me even though she isn't too crazy of my girlie side. Hopefully that will change, but I am learning in order for her to like my girlie side, I need to be open and honest with her.

[Cassandra Lynn]

I'm still trying to articulate all this, so bare with me here.

Sounds to me like it is:

1. Tell all early on and face the fact that she will most likely run. So it seems from what i've found on the forums.

or

2. Lie knowingly and willingly in hopes of building a committment strong enough to withstand the inevitable train wreck of full disclosure.

In example #1 there is less possibility of hurting the woman in time, but inflicting continued mental hardship on yourself. :thumbsdn:
And in #2, you'll not only get the deception she feels from hiding it from her but as an added bonus you get a proverbial bat to the head. :thumbsdn:

OH Gee which one do i want, they both sound so swell! :sad:
Excuse my attempt at humor as it is, of course, not funny at all. Humor is my defense mechanism. :tongueout

My CDing had an effect (not the only cause) on both my failed marriages as they both new, one i told the other caught me. :doh:
At my age i plan to not go thru the pain again. :straightface:
I'm just happy that i got to a place and time where i have now fully accepted me and my inner woman and my focus is in bringing her to life. :D mj

[AliceJaneInNewcastle]

1. Tell all early on and face the fact that she will most likely run. So it seems from what i've found on the forums.
I think that that is significantly overstating the risk of losing the partner. While most likely might be the perception that a crossdresser has as the most likely outcome, it is not true. The acceptance rate is far higher than most who are closeted seem to believe.

Telling all early on (a few weeks after meeting is a good timeframe) allows you both to make a decision on whether it is a dealbreaker or not, and if it is, allow you to move on before making a large emotional and possibly financial investment in a relationship.

Because it is such a significant part of your personality, the potential partner has the right to know from the outset.

What I've seen come out here and on other forums is that the deceit of not telling for an extended period is more damaging to a relationship than the crossdressing. I don't believe that a partner becomes more likely to accept crossdressing during a relationship, so there is no benefit in hiding it. In almost all cases, it will come out eventually and being honest earlier is better than being caught later.

[Cassandra Lynn]

I think that that is significantly overstating the risk of losing the partner. While most likely might be the perception that a crossdresser has as the most likely outcome, it is not true. The acceptance rate is far higher than most who are closeted seem to believe.



I've been meaning to ask this of the forum: is there any credible research and findings relating to this topic? I'm also curious as to your statement.
"The acceptance rate is far higher than most who are closeted seem to believe."
Not sure what relevance closeted has here, as i would imagine the population that is closeted is tremendously higher, that, by your example would make the acceptance rate still much lower or most likely. And you are one of those that promotes full disclosure for everyone, aren't you?
I'm going to add on here after reading back thru the posts, we are getting away from the OP question; it was a question of outing oneself, so it seems far to big a leap to jump all the way to tolerance, supportivesness and acceptance. mj

[suchacutie]

Kim, you've opened a real can of worms here...but one that we all need to address at one time or another.

In my mind, two committed people are in the best relationship when they are inside each other's heads. Anything that keeps the lives of two people separate is, I think, a detriment to a successful relationship...and I include WORK in that category unless it is really shared between the partners.

Anything as private as have a life in the other gender without sharing it will be stressful. That level of stress will increase until something explodes. It may take 40 years, but how can it not be so very difficult.

On the other hand (and there is another hand) the topic of transgenderism is not one that is embraced by a large fraction of the population, and as soon as one has opened up to a prospective or current partner, the ramifications could be devastating if it doesn't go well. Besides losing the spouse or potential spouse, that person could out us in the worst of ways.

So, it does seem to me that, as always, our little "hobby" is not for the faint-hearted. Telling a current or prospective SO means being prepared to suddenly have anyone and everyone know that we have a life en femme. Once we are willing to be outed, we have become free of most of the issue. Then we only have to worry about the interpersonal relationship with our partner (hah....only!). But, if our partner is specifically intolerant of our en femme life, then maybe there should be another answer. My god, these are hard issues :(.

My hopes for everyone to have a loving and supportive spouse!

tina

[NikiMichelle]

So, it does seem to me that, as always, our little "hobby" is not for the faint-hearted. Telling a current or prospective SO means being prepared to suddenly have anyone and everyone know that we have a life en femme. Once we are willing to be outed, we have become free of most of the issue. Then we only have to worry about the interpersonal relationship with our partner (hah....only!). But, if our partner is specifically intolerant of our en femme life, then maybe there should be another answer. My god, these are hard issues :(.


tina

Also...once the genie is out of the bottle there is no getting him/her back in!!!

[mklinden2010]

>>Do transgendered individuals have any obligation to "come out" to their SO? Or, if they haven't an SO, do they have a similar obligation to a prospective SO?



No more and no less than anyone else who wants to be in a truly happy, intimate, safe, and loving relationship.

It's best just to be honest as you go along. Not absolutely - that's impossible. But, at least relatively: "I think." "I feel." "I believe."

SOs expect and deserve to know what qualities you have, not necessarily what exact quantities of each that you have. Get "it" out there so that you both have a fair shot at dealing with it, whatever "it" is, together.

You may not know everything about you or where you might be heading. But, you both need to talk about what's on your mind so you can really know each other.

Life together is about dealing with life together. You don't have to be perfect, but they have to know y-o-u to know how much they can trust you to be you as you go along through life together.

"Sure, go do what you gotta do, but be back in time to check on the kids."

[kimdl93]

There's lots of shared wisdom in this thread. My take away is that honestly, very early in a relationship, is the best policy.

At the same time, we acknowledge that situations vary. In my first marriage, I didn't know myself all that well, certainly not well enough to come out to my gf. I didn't deliberately decieve...but over time it had the same effect. Maybe that makes an arguement against marrying too young.

[Sheila]

As an SO I have been in two TG relationships, the first did not survive the lies and deceit before and after discovering his cding, the second one I knew before we were ever in a relationship and we are now married, and happily so :happy:

As for me I believe future SO's have the right to know anything that can have a major impact on their relationship (and that is from both sides and is not exclusive to CDing), but that is just my :2c:

[Madame George]

... is there any credible research and findings relating to this topic? No. At least none that I would call credible enough to meet the requirements of true research. Most rely on anecdotal evidence or crude polling. There are several reasons for this, but the growth of interest in trans identities and lives is spurring real research conducted free of pathologies in the gender studies field. This is good because for the first time the lives of the wives and other partners are being looked at as well.

I organized and co-moderate a partner's group for partners of people with all kinds of trans identities and one of the things I hear over and over again from new attendees who are in long-term relationships is how hurt and angry they are from being kept in the dark for so long. It seems if they can find a way to express that anger in a healthy way and if the trans person and the partner can allow the space and time for the anger to be addressed it can help. After that a willingness to engage in incremental negotiations and good communications skills as a couple can help with other things like level of acceptance or participation.

*added

There are a lot of other factors that can come into play. Like if a trans person hides this from a wife or partner who has experienced long-term general trust issues (for whatever reason), it seems to make it harder and in some cases impossible for them to get over the feeling of being lied to or betrayed by someone they had allowed themselves to trust.

[Angie G]

I hid me dresing from my wife for years. 4 years ago I came out to her and it was the best thing I ever did. I dress 5 day a week have a completewardrobe. My ears pierced. Lots of shoes. My wife is great about it and has even shopped for me.I don't know if a person obligation in telling His/her SO But I very glad I did.I even do some make up now and then.:hugs:
Angie

[AliceJaneInNewcastle]

I've been meaning to ask this of the forum: is there any credible research and findings relating to this topic?
There has never been proper independent research in this field that I've been able to find. I have to rely on the experiences of the hundreds of crossdressers and transsexuals that I know, their partners, family and friends.

If there was proper research, I suspect that many would lie and pretend not to be transgendered. I've started a separate thread asking how many here would complete a census form truthfully if there were transgender questions in it. It doesn't really belong in this thread.
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127649


I'm also curious as to your statement.
"The acceptance rate is far higher than most who are closeted seem to believe."
Not sure what relevance closeted has here, as i would imagine the population that is closeted is tremendously higher, that, by your example would make the acceptance rate still much lower or most likely.
The relevance of closeted in my comment is that, like the belief that you will be abused if you go out en femme, closeted people tend to be far more pessimistic about acceptance by a partner or potential partner than those who have more experience in the real world.

Your statement appears to me to be a non-sequiter. The number of closeted people does not influence the ratio of partners who would accept or reject a crossdressing partner.


And you are one of those that promotes full disclosure for everyone, aren't you?
Full disclosure to everyone? It would be nice, but no. Full disclosure to a partner or potential partner and offspring, absolutely. Beyond that, I believe that honesty is best if asked, but that it is up to the individual to decide who else they want to volunteer that information to.


I'm going to add on here after reading back thru the posts, we are getting away from the OP question; it was a question of outing oneself, so it seems far to big a leap to jump all the way to tolerance, supportivesness and acceptance.
We have indeed strayed, with some here trying to use a perceived certainty that a partner will leave as an excuse to promote the lie of omission or possible outright lie of denying being a crossdresser over the partner's need for honesty within a relationship.

[funkybunny]

as a so i think it is very important to come out. that way your being fully honest with them. your not obligated but i feel u should, that why i'm so glad he did.

[Alice B]

Coming out to your SO or spouse is always the wiser choice in the long run. It eliminates guilt and lies.