A Philosophical Question on Same-Sex Relationships

[Veronica Nowakowski]

As I got my masculine and feminine energies balanced, I started having an interest in sexual relations with men. I began to think that I was becoming bisexual, which I welcomed. However, after reflection, I'm realizing that it wasn't that at all. In my case, I have no attraction to any particular male, something I have all the time for women, but the idea of such relations is attractive because it makes me feel more feminine. It sort of reminds me of a statement I once heard about women seeing men as accessories for themselves.

Here I am actually losing that balance and feeling more feminine than masculine, which though I think the balance is preferable I just don't care, even thinking of starting hormone therapy, and it's becoming clearer what that is. I know most of the other posters are strictly heterosexual, but are there others who have experienced anything similar?

[Joanne f]

I would say that there are a great many who have or do feel the same and i know a lot will not like it but i think it is going to be an inevitability for most TGs to have thoughts like this (and i did not say all) and in one sense it would be only natural as males think like males and females think like females so if you are both then why should you not think like both on all aspects of life, being TG can play about with your head in more ways than just wanting to wear the clothes.

[NatalieBliss]

I started having an interest in sexual relations with men. I began to think that I was becoming bisexual, which I welcomed. However, after reflection, I'm realizing that it wasn't that at all. In my case, I have no attraction to any particular male, something I have all the time for women, but the idea of such relations is attractive because it makes me feel more feminine.

I totally understand that part. I consider myself a heterosexual crossdresser. But it's not from shutting myself off from entertaining other notions. I just don't find men appealing.

[Shari]

I'm not, nor have I ever been in a same sex relationship.

I can think of no one man who I've ever looked at in the same manner as a beautiful woman. Everyday guys, movie stars, sports figures, etc. don't turn me on.

When I'm dressed though, the thoughts become much stronger.
There is a faceless fantasy man who lives inside my tiny brain and visits me on some of these occasions.
There comes a warm curiosity when I look at myself in the mirror and imagine this man coming up behind me and wrapping his arms around my waist.

Wow, it's getting hot in here, isn't it?

[Nicole Erin]

I see and hear about these so called sexy or attractive men, and I don't get it either.

[Veronica Nowakowski]

It's sounding more common than I thought.

[Byanca]

Welcome to the club :daydreaming:

That's exactly how it is for my. But it's always been like this. But I'm obviously not gay as I become very shy with men. And can do everything except me getting all naked, since that does not feel right, some real transsexualism there I suspect, since I so much want too, but soo embarrassed. But I've had the pleasure of being hit on by a guy out. He was very on.... opened doors for me, took me with him home. Then after a while almost jumped me on the sofa..lol. The whole thing was really great, I've never felt so much as a real woman. But that's just me, lot's of ways to go about this.

[Veronica Nowakowski]

That sounds like a lot of fun. I think I need to have an experience like that before I settle down.

[minalost]

"I dress like a woman therefor I must be attracted to men, right?" I think this is just our own brain fooling with us. I've felt the same thing too, but when it comes down to "walking the walk," it turns out I'm just not that interested. It's more of the "man as the accessory..." thing. It could also be argued that you'll "look more fem" or "pass" better if you're hanging on the arm of a very male man; its a contrast thing.

So don't feel bad or weird just because you have these feelings. Many of us do, even if we don't act on them. 95% of crossdressers are heterosexual.

Just my :2c:.
:hugs:

[Veronica Nowakowski]

I have to doubt that statistic given that only 90% of the general population is.

[dawnmarrie1961]

veronica, a healthy sex life is a good thing. But be careful. I don't really understand the whole bi-sexual thing. It's a bit confusing to me.

Living as i do I'm often invisible to women, unless they are into girls.

Guys on the other hand are a pain in my ass. I'm not attracted to them and yet they won't leave me alone, even when they are aware of who I am. I've got kids old enough to be my kids making passes at me.

Doesn't anyone understand the word "NO" anymore?


Mtf doesn't automatically mean a change in sexual preference. I think a big misconception is that because the vast majority of transgendered people consider themselves hetrosexual it doesn't mean we all of a sudden are into men.


Be safe. Be smart.

Dawn Marrie

[StarrOfDelite]

There's a thread on the board entitled 'crossdressing and dating guys?' It was started in December, 2009 and it has over 200 posts by now. ReineD did an analysis of it several weeks ago, at the 166 post mark, and it revealed this:

40 of the posts were general in nature or multiple posts.

34 said they weren't interested in being with a man or a M2F TG

62 said they would be interested in, or had been with a man

30 said they were/would be interested in men while dressed but not in drab

Some interesting comments in the thread. You might be interested in reading them, since many of them are relevant to your original question which was, if I understood correctly, do we trend towards becoming more accepting of the concept of being intimate with a man as we become more involved in the TV/CD world?

I think the answer is a tentative yes, or at the very least confirmation that your leanings are not unique.

[Frédérique]

Here I am actually losing that balance and feeling more feminine than masculine, which though I think the balance is preferable I just don't care, even thinking of starting hormone therapy, and it's becoming clearer what that is. I know most of the other posters are strictly heterosexual, but are there others who have experienced anything similar?


Yes! A philosophical question! Cool! :)

I’ve experienced something along the lines of what you’re talking about, but I went in that direction unconsciously. Your results may vary, but bear with me. Rather than put a name on it, I just enjoy being in this new state of awareness. I’ve always felt more feminine than masculine, since the males who surrounded me while I was growing up were repulsive, save for a few kindred types I briefly came in contact with. Would things have been different in the company of females? The truth is I sought out their nurturing company -- I was just drawn that way. As such, it’s difficult for me to contemplate being truly bisexual. I have too many memories of certain behavioral attitudes I care not to remember. I’ve become more bi-curious as the years go by, but my crossdressing isn’t sexual in any way, shape or form – it’s purely tactile, done to cultivate feelings I hold dear. I guard against any intrusion into this private world, so I keep most males at arms length, since I don’t expect THEM to understand. I know there are others like me, so I only come out here, where I have many sympathetic friends. I don’t really think about maintaining a “balance” of some sort, since I tipped the scales away from masculinity a long time ago. He still sits over yonder, on the other end of this gender see-saw. I can see him quite clearly. I keep him as far away as possible, but, unfortunately, I need him for my own equilibrium…:doh:

[Alicia_lynn419]

I'm kinda in the same boat.... I'm not consciously attracted to men, but sometimes the female part of me is attracted to the notion... yea, I understand the faceless fantasy man. But instead of worrying about being bi or straight, I prefer to think of it in terms of hetroflexible.

[Barbara Dugan]

You are not alone Veronica I feel almost the same way .. I consider myself gay I like guys 100% of the time the more masculine the better but when I dress is even better I feel more whole...like when you said your femenine side gets stronger.I know some people may object what I said but when I have a relationship with a guy I dont feel like it is gay relationship..I can have and I think it s a lot easier for me to have a gay relationship but to me have one while in femme is more fulfilling even sometimes the idea of having the whole body and equipment has crossed my mind too

[Veronica Nowakowski]

I do recall my gender therapist telling me that if you're really a woman on the inside, it isn't gay :P

[prene]

Like:
Alicia_lynn419 said:
"I'm kinda in the same boat.... I'm not consciously attracted to men, but sometimes the female part of me is attracted to the notion... yea, "

I love the notion of feeling totally female . . .

[Dee2U]

I am married so I wouldn't cheat - man or woman...BUT....my fantasies have definitely strayed at times into the feminine role with a man. I am always the receptive partner seeking to please him. In my mind I am a woman during these daydreams / fantasies and never use the part that men have....Dee

[Rianna Humble]

I do recall my gender therapist telling me that if you're really a woman on the inside, it isn't gay :P

This seems to be one of the perennial questions around here, but I think your therapist is right. If you are really a woman, then relations with a man are heterosexual. The UK gender legislation recognises that for people who have gone through transition.

If push comes to shove, I would probably have to class myself as a lesbian - I'm not interested in men and I'm only really interested in women if I'm one.

[charlytuna]

when I start looking and thing about men I just step back and take at my "Bunnie" and all that I was feeling about another man vanishes

[Joan Merrie]

No offence, but men are nasty, creachers:D.:hugs::love:

[MarciManseau]

We're both totally bisexual, and very open about it. For us, it's more about the person, not their gender. If someone is nice, good looking and fun, and there's a chemistry, I say go for it. :D

Hugs, Marci :hugs:

[Katesback]

Human sexuality is very interesting and it runs all across the board. This artificial construct that society has created (refering to Hetrosexual) is just that......artificial.

I have seen CDs at Southern Comfort that would call themselves hetrosexual as thier male self but........give them a wig, heels, and makeover and all of a sudden they are ready to take womanhood to a whole new level.

Is this normal? Well to tell you the truth I really could care less if something is normal or not. I gave up trying to figure people out a long time ago. These days I just go with the flow.

KAtie

[Michelle-Leigh]

Here I am actually losing that balance and feeling more feminine than masculine, which though I think the balance is preferable I just don't care, even thinking of starting hormone therapy, and it's becoming clearer what that is. I know most of the other posters are strictly heterosexual, but are there others who have experienced anything similar?

I have, despite my heterosexuality and lack of attraction to men; and there are so many others experiencing this effect that I believe it can be a potential side effect of spending increased amounts of time en femme. As I have a wife and child, I have taken measures to redirect my thinking so that my sexuality is returning to its original balanced state....

[Susie Mae]

I am one of those who always fantasizes about being taken as a submissive girl, whether it is by an older woman or a man. The important thing in either situation is that they want to arouse me, to control me, and to use me totally.

I was trained to cross dress within my own family, all women, as I grew up, and the sexier I made myself look the more I was praised and rewarded. Although I had a best-friend JO buddy in High School, we weren't queer and I didn't dress when we played together.

When it's really been a long time, though, I do go to bars-- straight men's clothes over my frilly women's lingerie--and see if I can find action. I like TV bars better than bath-houses, where there is no clothing to excite me.

[Sherry Lynn]

I personally don't have any sexual interest in men whatsoever. I am however attracted to other t-girls. Maybe I'm a lesbian when I'm dressed but what am I when I'm in drab? I consider anything in a skirt to be fair game for me!

[jenifer m.]

i have felt similer to what you described especially when ive had guys hit on me or whistle at me befor.i guess its just my feminine sides reaction to their actions.

[ArleneRaquel]

My 1st bf left after 1 year. I was always da female - he felt dat MsA made him gay :devil:. ,

[ソSophieフィ]

Although I'm attracted to females mostly, and find the typical 'attractive' guy somewhat repulsive sexually, I can't say that I would turn down the right type of guy. So long as they're somewhat (preferably very!) feminine, accepting of who I am and has the right personality, it really doesn't matter to me what organs they do or don't have.

[curious5752]

I am a heterosexual mtf crossdresser who is looking for a suportive female to help me with my crossdressing, but there has always been a small part of me that is curious about being with a man. This part of me seems to be growing and is becoming more of my thoughts as of late.
Cathy

[KarenHiller]

I'm much more comfortable around men now that I'm almost full time. In drab, I'm small and thin, and I was never a really accepted as a part of male society, nor did I want to be.

Now the macho type men that used to intimidate me flirt with me, hold doors for me, ask me to dance, or buy me drinks. This way is so much nicer :D And if I like him, sharing pleasure with him is sooo amazing!

Karen

[AmandaM]

This seems to be one of the perennial questions around here, but I think your therapist is right. If you are really a woman, then relations with a man are heterosexual. The UK gender legislation recognises that for people who have gone through transition.


I think that for crossdressers who aren't sure they're transsexual, it may be the woman within exerting her influence. I wouldn't call it bisexualness unless you know you're a man and wish to remain so. If you have any cross-gender identity, it may be more than mere bisexualness. It might be an inner female sexual desire buried underneath. For instance, if you like to make love to men but imagine yourself to have female body parts when you do so, you are probably not bisexual in the traditional sense. For myself, if I see a sexual encounter on a movie, I would love to be the woman, but I don't feel the desire to use my male body with his. I have no erotic desire for that.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

we could make this even more complicated...how bout the guys who date us, especially dating cd's?? they ALL say I"M NOT GAY...and then they ...well you know what they do..

how interesting... but in the end as kate points out, its alot more fun to just do it than worry about it..

also, i think there is evidence that male and female sexuality are expressed differently..in other words, men and women feel attraction in a different way..

this would explain alot of the confusion in talking about guys and how you look at them even if you are curious about sex with a guy..if you are male and you are a cd and you are curious about men, it makes sense that you are wondering why the same visual stimulation you get from a beautiful woman is not there for you with guys..

the feeling of being held and embraced and made love to by a guy is much more sexy and thrilling to me than whether a guy looks hot...

for me its nice to have a good looking guy but the looks part of it is kind of a minimum requirement and is in second place compared to how i feel about him..

[charlie]

Hello Veronica!
I hope before you actually go and start hormones that you go out on a date with a man or two. I was there at one time and after getting over the feeling of being and feeling more feminine, realized that the guy I was kissing with was just that...a guy! As much as I liked having doors opened for me, getting helped out of the car, being cared after; the expected sex part was something that I could not do. I think that part of my dressing is because I love women so much...and men do not fit into that feeling.

[Fab Karen]

If you're not fantasizing about sex with a man, then it probably isn't something you desire. But we do hear of girls who go on hrt developing a desire for men. But don't worry about it- what you like is what you like.

[Veronica Nowakowski]

Hello Veronica!
I hope before you actually go and start hormones that you go out on a date with a man or two. I was there at one time and after getting over the feeling of being and feeling more feminine, realized that the guy I was kissing with was just that...a guy! As much as I liked having doors opened for me, getting helped out of the car, being cared after; the expected sex part was something that I could not do. I think that part of my dressing is because I love women so much...and men do not fit into that feeling.

My thoughts of doing that are completely unrelated to having sex with men. It has to do with realizing I feel more comfortable with that, plus a bit of a thought buzz that I may be able to be part of a rare lesbian couple that is recognized by the US government as married for the purpose of government programs and share healthcare and all that. I imagine ending up with a bisexual woman in the end.

[AmandaM]

OMG! You are a girl! :hugs:


we could make this even more complicated...how bout the guys who date us, especially dating cd's?? they ALL say I"M NOT GAY...and then they ...well you know what they do..

how interesting... but in the end as kate points out, its alot more fun to just do it than worry about it..

also, i think there is evidence that male and female sexuality are expressed differently..in other words, men and women feel attraction in a different way..

this would explain alot of the confusion in talking about guys and how you look at them even if you are curious about sex with a guy..if you are male and you are a cd and you are curious about men, it makes sense that you are wondering why the same visual stimulation you get from a beautiful woman is not there for you with guys..

the feeling of being held and embraced and made love to by a guy is much more sexy and thrilling to me than whether a guy looks hot...

for me its nice to have a good looking guy but the looks part of it is kind of a minimum requirement and is in second place compared to how i feel about him..

[Susie Mae]

The fantasy is to think that a biological woman can ever provide the fulfillment that I most desire. We have a unique combination of femininity and masculinity, our decoration and our body parts. I am so turned on when I think that there is a swelling member under those soft and frilly clothes. There is so much that can be done with real meat, not neoprene substitutes for make believe. A good cross dresser is far more fun than a woman any day.

[kimdl93]

my bi-experiences occurred during a lull in my dressing, and as is typically the case, when I was quite young (19). I admit I do often fantasize about enounters with men, but am in a monogamous relationship.

[Katie Sophie]

As I got my masculine and feminine energies balanced, I started having an interest in sexual relations with men. I began to think that I was becoming bisexual, which I welcomed. However, after reflection, I'm realizing that it wasn't that at all. In my case, I have no attraction to any particular male, something I have all the time for women, but the idea of such relations is attractive because it makes me feel more feminine. It sort of reminds me of a statement I once heard about women seeing men as accessories for themselves.

Here I am actually losing that balance and feeling more feminine than masculine, which though I think the balance is preferable I just don't care, even thinking of starting hormone therapy, and it's becoming clearer what that is. I know most of the other posters are strictly heterosexual, but are there others who have experienced anything similar?

My desire to be with men sexually and emotionally is centered more on the feeling that part of being femme, to me, is assuming the role of a woman too. It helps that I am actually attracted to some guys when I'm dressed up.

So it's not just the external appearance that makes me feel so good. It's the internal change to thinking and wanting the things a girl wants and being willing to give into what a guy might want as long as I think he's nice, gentle, and caring.

[marcigbg]

I'd like to thank the author of this post. a very wonderful question asked. And to those who responded thank you as well.

Now for my two cents / story. I was married twice, getting a divorce from the second one. Only 80 days to go but hey I'm not counting. I've been severely hurt by wives. So now I don't trust women other then mom. Marci has been apart of my life for a very long time. She's become more and more apart of me everyday. I find it funny that the gender that hurt me the most, is what I want to become. My therapist, says that Marci comes out and protects my male side from being hurt. She (Marci) is very protective. She's very promiscuous, and loves men. Now my male side, has female friends. But the ol family jewels doesn't come to attention. I'm in a personal hell to be honest. I have to be a male at work. But inside and every thought is of / as Marci thinks.

I get pissed at men I meet online. One I have to see a picture. Sorry but a penis is just that. Now matter how the package is wrapped. I can't wait until that one day that Marci can come and go as she pleases. Its a tad hard with mom living around the corner. She knows of my bi side. She understands, but doesn't want details LOL.

Hugs & Kisses
Marci

[BRANDYJ]

I am like so many others here that expressed their own feelings about being with a man only in fantasy mode and not in reality. I have had that faceless guy fantasy on and off over the years. Men do not turn me on, simple as that. Some things are left better as just a fantasy anyway. However, I have been with a few other cross dressers in the past. To me, that is so different. Now I am in a committed relationship with a woman that happens to be bi. But I know for a fact that she would not cheat on me anymore then I would cheat on her.
At times the feeling of being female is very strong. So strong that I feel like what others have expressed, that it is natural to have thoughts about being with a man. But again, the reality is the man that I have thought about is a faceless fantasy. And I am happy that way.

[docrobbysherry]

When I first started dressing, I thot I wanted to have real breasts and become female. I had FANTASIES about being FORCED into encounters with men!:eek:
Dressing up in women's things, and having sex with men? Obviously, I'm gay rite?:brolleyes:

As it turned out, NO! The sex change fantasies went away. I've NEVER been attracted to males! So, that fantasy went away, too!:straightface:

What remains is; the excitement of looking like an attractive female! Creatures I've ALWAYS admired!:o