Why do boys play with cars and girls dolls?

[GingerLeigh]

It seems to me that all of humanity is pre-programmed to be the person they are to become, outside elements help to shape the personality. I feel the whole nature vs. nurture thing is bunk. I've had a urge to crossdress since before I knew what it meant. Imagine a 3 year old boy rubbing the legs of a stockinged stranger at the store! Imagine the embarrassed horror of my mother!
I feel that crossdressing is genetic. Why? Well lately, my 3 year old boy began rubbing his grandmother's legs. She is the only one who still wears stockings. Coincidence? You can say its a feeling thing except that he specifically requests she wear black ones! Weird, no? I'm going to have to watch him, give him support I never got.
People say it's a mental issue. We're psychotic. It's easier to hate someone for making poor choices, but how can someone blame you if you were born a certain way?

Ginger

[Bailey_in_Mansfield]

Well I've never heard of it being hereditary, but that is interesting. For my part, I've always suspected that it was caused by hormone irregularities or even chromosome irregularities that cause the brain to crave higher levels of estrogen and everything that goes along with that. I've suspected some of that stuff in myself, but can't afford the test to see if I'm right. (Wanting to test my hormone levels and my chromosomes, but that costs a little over $1000.)

Anyway, this thread seems to be a different discussion from its title. :) So why do boys play with cars and girls dolls? Hell I don't know, but as you might suspect, I wanted dolls. Never got 'em. Ironically while I was walking around at Walgreen's last week waiting for a prescription to be filled, I saw a couple of Barbies on the shelves and had an urge to buy 'em...heh, didn't bother though.

[Jenny Doolittle]

Hey Bailey,

I liked playing with dolls too when little. I think that is why they changed the name of dolls fro boys to "Action Figures" So parents would not get a complex about it! :heehee:

I found your comment interesting about the reason why we like to dress. I think it is also a genetic thing. Someday it will actually be determined and we will no longer be shunned by the rest of society..... That will be a great day!

[DeeInGeorgia]

There is a book called "Brain Sex" that discusses this. The book was written by a writter and a doctor doing a review of much of the medical research of the time concerning causes of variance of gender and sexual orientation. They found research that shows may possible causes.

I suggest you read this book.

Deanna

[dawnmarrie1961]

Behavior is the minds programmed reaction to a given situation. Genetics may have some small part in determining how the individual responses to external or internal stimulus.

We are beings endowed with the ability to reason.

We make "choices".

Genetics are often blamed for everything. It is a cop out. An easy solution to explain what we haven't the stomach, or time, to figure out. In this fast food ,convenvience oriented society, there is a tendancey towards easy and unproved solutions.

I think therefore I am.

Take the road less traveled it leads to the truth.

Be safe. Be smart.

Dawn Marrie

[Jocelyn Quivers]

I used to play with barbie doll's a lot while growing up. It was not really crossdressing related. I found I could have great make believe wrestling matches with them due to there size and shape.

[ソSophieフィ]

What kids play with is decided by the parent, really. If a baby boy is born, naturally it would get many gifts which the giver deems 'boyish.' By the time the boy has grown up enough to decide what they want themselves, they'd either natually gravitate towards the same sort of things, or be pressured into continuing the trend.
At the moment, I work in a shop behind the till. Often you get parents coming in with their kids, telling them to pick something they want. If a boy picks up something pink, the parent says, 'That's girly, put it back.' What can a child do to fight this?
So I think that the mentality to avoid Barbies and like cars (or the other way round) is hammered into a child, not something that just naturally occurs. I suppose an experiment where a group of children are brought up as the opposite gender would prove or disprove this - would a boy brought up on Barbies as a baby ask for an Action Man on his 5th birthday? - but I guess this would be pretty unethical.

[mklinden2010]

>>It seems to me that all of humanity is pre-programmed to be the person they are to become, outside elements help to shape the personality. I feel the whole nature vs. nurture thing is bunk.


>>People say it's a mental issue. We're psychotic. It's easier to hate someone for making poor choices, but how can someone blame you if you were born a certain way?


People come with a lot of pre-programming, no doubt about it. Yet, they are also largely "blank slates" too.

If everything was genetic, adopted Chinese babies, for instance, could never learn English. In fact, they'd sputter Chinese word fragments all their lives, right?

Nature is not opposed to nurture and nurture is not opposed to nature. Nature creates the opportunity for nurture, nurture builds on nature. So, I agree with you that any argument that pits nature AGAINST nurture is mostly "bunk." It's a false argument; but it is a good fight starter.

And, it's only SOME people who say certain behaviors are "mental issues." Kids call other kids "weird" because they like to paint, sing, or, play football. Opinions vary, but everyone has some. Adults call other adults "weird", but make allowances for different levels of weirdness. They're more mature, but not necessarily more correct.

Psychotic thinking, generally, has to do with a mind that can't move from point A to point B reliably, or, consistently, and references odd behaviors that follow from non- sequitur reasoning.

When it comes to CD/TS/TG behavior, however, most people, given enough decent information, don't have all that much trouble coming to decent, "OK, fine. I didn't know that. Thanks for explaining it to me. Good luck with that." conclusions.

It seems to me that you, yourself, might yet not fully accept yourself as being "OK" in spite of other people's opinions. In helping your son become a "happy and productive member of society" I hope you'll do a bit more work improving your outlook on yourself and others.

It's not "me vs. them" either:

"It's me, you, everybody - us - all in this together."

Good luck.

[NathalieX66]

Here's an article on the subject:

http://www.brainchildmag.com/essays/fall2001_wilkinson.htm

[brandy1985]

i used to play with cars one minute and asking my sister if she wanted to play with dolls the next. but she had one of those doll houses that were made of plastic rods and cardboard. Id just end up building after. Any way i still feel the need to cross dress no matter how much guy stuff i do. I just like the feeling of the clothing.

[sonia_dargency]

That is my understanding of it:

First, male are a variation of the default state, which is female. why would males have nipples otherwise? nobody is 100% female nor 100% male. even women have a degree of maleness.

this genetic percentage of maleness defines some traits such as your reproductive organs, how you store fat or how much hair you have but they are not related to each other; they usually come as a package, but countless variations of the package exist.

you can be male and hairy and still have desire to be pretty, you can be female skinny and hairless but boyish in attitude. etc...
it's what we call people.

second, male (whether they admit it or not) have an inherent desire to go back where they first felt good before shit happened, that is inside their mother's womb. female also have this desire, but they are on earth with a mission to bear the species a step further whenever males are almost useless beside those 5 necessary minutes to ensure genetic pooling. (why more men suffer depression?).

IMHO, crossdressing is a the results of both situations blended in a different proportion for each individual.

women clothing feels good because we feel "inside" the woman (any woman would do but you can easily narrow it down to the mother); it's like a pacifier, a security blanket, you name it. and there is nothing wrong with that

also, women clothing responds to the desire to be pretty, to be a woman because deep down, a part of us is female. and also, there is nothing wrong with that.


to maintain order and productivity, society organized people by genders and commanded cars for boys and dolls for girls.

[Joanie_Shakti]

I played with both. I was about five when my dad went to Vietnam and we lived at my grandma's house for the year. There, my mom pulled out her Raggedy Ann and Andy dolls and gave them to me and my brother. That Christmas was the first year that GI Joe came out, so I, along with my brother and cousins, all got GI Joe dolls for Christmas. But I can also remember playing with the girl next door before we moved there and asking my parents for an Easy Bake Oven of my own. (I never got one. :sad:)

I slept with a teddy bear and a stuffed rabbit doll well onto my pre-teens. But I also played with Hot Wheels, slot cars, and built numerous model kits, mainly cars. But I don't care much for sports at all. I like swimming and snorkeling. Also liked SCUBA but living in the desert, I didn't have much opportunity for that and I regretably let that fall by the wayside. Same with Karate. I liked that and was decent, but the knees and back didn't like it. Another regret that I didn't stick with it.

Back to cars, I was a fan of open wheel racing until Formula One forsook Phoenix for the Grand Prix after reassuring the city they were staying. They just can't keep a toe hold in the U.S. And after the CART/IRL controversy, I lost interest in that series too.

I was also like the boy in the OP, I remember at five, feeling my grandmother's legs because of her nylons. I didn't go as far as requesting specific colors, she only wore beige anyway. And I've liked satin since before I can remember. My baby blanket had a satin trim and I liked to smell it while I sucked my thumb. To this day, I still like the feeling of satin on my face.

I sometimes wonder if the absence of my dad at that early age and the influence of my mom and grandma made me like girl stuff more than the average kid. After Vietnam, he was somewhat abusive to myself and my brother and was gone for another extended time after my sister was born. My brother and I would get beat with a belt for the slightest infraction, where my sister never got spanked. As we were punished a lot around the time I discovered crossdressing, I wonder if the different treatment between the guys and the girl in the family influenced my wish to have been born a girl.

Sorry for digressing a bit. This forum seems to bring out suppressed thoughts and I get carried away.

[Rachel Morley]

Here's a weird thing, my brother totally used to play with a little girl doll all the time when he was a little kid. He would change her dress, feed her, and play with her all the time. Me, I was a GI Joe/Action Man kinda boy as I wanted to be just like all my friends. However, I'm the CDer and he's a regular guy who as far as I can tell, isn't the least bit interested in anything even remotely feminine.

I must admit, even though I played with the "boy doll" I did sometimes want to switch to playing with Barbie but I knew she was "for girls" and so felt shy about people seeing me.

As to answering the question in the thread title ... just exactly "why" children tend to do what they do? I have no clue.

[Persephone]

Here's an article on the subject:

http://www.brainchildmag.com/essays/fall2001_wilkinson.htm

Thank you for a very interesting link, Nathalie!

[docrobbysherry]

I started CDing in my fifties, genetics wouldn't explain that. But, hormonal changes MITE!:straightface:

I NEVER had a single urge, or thot, to try on ladies clothes, until then!:eek:

As a child, my toys were all guns, trucks, cars, and Tinky-toy things. All small dolls, or "action figures", were simply things I liked to throw as far as possible!:brolleyes:

[ColleenCD]

Let's go back to the original question. In simple form I see it this way; Boys compete to relate, Girls relate to compete. Boys build common interests by measured competitive events (cars), and Girls build relationships to maintain crucial alliances.

Have pretty day!

Colleen

[Michelle-Leigh]

Let's go back to the original question. In simple form I see it this way; Boys compete to relate, Girls relate to compete. Boys build common interests by measured competitive events (cars), and Girls build relationships to maintain crucial alliances.

Have pretty day!

Colleen

Hmm.... I always built relationships to maintain or further alliances from an early age - must be one of my feminine traits !

[RADER]

In my old age, I am underdressing more, full dressing more, and enjoy
playing around driving a Peterbuilt. Thoes this count. LOL :D Rader

[jenifer m.]

coleen said it. that sounds technically right,but then what do i know i played with barbie dolls,and machine guns so who can say?

[Marla]

Its pretty obvious! Our parents and thus our society has dictated to us what is male and what is female. That's not a bad thing, it just makes it difficult for those of us who want it the other way. I did it to my own sons, but I wish I would have given them more choice.

[Frédérique]

It seems to me that all of humanity is pre-programmed to be the person they are to become, outside elements help to shape the personality. I feel the whole nature vs. nurture thing is bunk. I've had a urge to crossdress since before I knew what it meant. Imagine a 3 year old boy rubbing the legs of a stockinged stranger at the store!
People say it's a mental issue. We're psychotic. It's easier to hate someone for making poor choices, but how can someone blame you if you were born a certain way?

Why blame anyone in the first place? How about educating the accuser about the world at large? Also, from our perspective, why listen to anyone, and why try to analyze things that have their origin as human feelings? Who doesn’t like the smooth, tactile sensation of hosiery atop equally smooth legs? Women who have to wear them? Sorry, but I seem to be full of questions today…:heehee:

You can be into tactile things and not be a crossdresser, but you have a certain “aptitude” for transgendered discovery if you do. One thing leads to another, as long as familial expectations, obligations and peer-pressure bigotry don’t get in the way. Nature vs. nurture has been tried and tested with mixed results, another case of over-analyzing the obvious. All you need to do is go with your innate feelings and enjoy crossdressing, if you have the chance (and the desire). You either do, or you don’t, but let’s not think too much about it…:straightface:

When I was a boy, I was a boy. I don’t recall being curious about feminine things, since I never got close enough to TOUCH anything. They weren’t nearby, in any event (unfortunately). So, what happened? One thing led to another, as soon as the people steering me in a certain direction got too tired to maintain the job, and I began to explore. Left to my own devices, I constructed a lifestyle -- only later did I find out it had a special name, but by then it was me, no more and certainly not less. Who cares how it came about? Be thankful for such a gift…:battingeyelashes:

[Genifer Teal]

I like to take them apart :eek: then put them back together. Guess it is a good thing I like cars. :D As for why? I definitely have the mechanical gene. I need to know how things work. Taking them apart is a good way to learn. If you can put them back together, you learned well. If they run faster/better, you can have lots of fun with them.

Gen

[Starling]

My parents knew something was wrong with me, but God knows if they knew what it was. And I knew something was bubbling inside me that made me need to wear girl's clothes, but I went around in circles trying to figure out if I was gay, a female, a fetishist (even though I didn't know the word yet), or just a mixed-up kid. Well, I certainly was that.

I don't think I ever relaxed when it came to monitoring my behavior to make sure I wasn't giving myself away; I knew if I slipped I would lose all my friends and be an object of ridicule and even physical violence. I felt like the most frightened, self-conscious little freak who ever lived.

Of course, I shared absolutely none of this with my parents, so whatever they were acting on came from my unconscious behavior. Obviously I wasn't aware of it then, and I don't give a damn about it now. Although I haven't yet gone out dressed in public, I have decided that from now on I will act as if I were dressed. I won't butch it up in drab, but just be who I am. It's a great relief, actually, and as the change sneaks up on my friends it may even prepare them for the news. Truth be told, however, the fem me isn't all that much different from the butch me.

At this point in my life, having heard so many horror stories of behavior mod abuses, I am everlastingly grateful I did not confide in my parents, or anyone else. I was terribly isolated, but at least I wasn't receiving ECT in a mental institution!

:eek: Lallie

PS: Pardon me for rambling, but it seems I never tire of finding new angles to my little story. After a lifetime of silence I've become quite a chatterbox.

[VanessaVW]

Well I've never heard of it being hereditary, but that is interesting. For my part, I've always suspected that it was caused by hormone irregularities or even chromosome irregularities that cause the brain to crave higher levels of estrogen and everything that goes along with that. I've suspected some of that stuff in myself, but can't afford the test to see if I'm right. (Wanting to test my hormone levels and my chromosomes, but that costs a little over $1000.)

Anyway, this thread seems to be a different discussion from its title. :) So why do boys play with cars and girls dolls? Hell I don't know, but as you might suspect, I wanted dolls. Never got 'em. Ironically while I was walking around at Walgreen's last week waiting for a prescription to be filled, I saw a couple of Barbies on the shelves and had an urge to buy 'em...heh, didn't bother though.

I grew up with trucks and cars. However, I had two baby dolls. One from my sitter's daughter and the other from my cousin (they gave them to me when I was 4 or 5 or so). Even though Mom and Dad didn't approve of dressing, they must have felt that the dolls were OK. Honestly, I think I turned out just fine.

[Satrana]

I feel the whole nature vs. nurture thing is bunk. I've had a urge to crossdress since before I knew what it meant. Imagine a 3 year old boy rubbing the legs of a stockinged stranger at the store!

Well since the other 99.99% of CDs never rubbed stranger's stockings maybe your assessment of the nature/nuture debate is lopsided. Most CDs do not report feeling any feminine needs or desires until the day they discover their CDing desire usually in later childhood between the ages 8-13. This all but disproves the genetic idea.

Could it be that children might just like the tactile feel of nylons? Would it be surprising to find that all children would enjoy playing with the unique sensation of nylon. Does this really have any bearing on CDing?

And if femininity is genetically programmed then I guess women must be losing their feminine gene since they are becoming progressively less feminine. Since the whole human genome has been mapped it should be possible to identify this magical gene since women are evolving right before our eyes........

As for toys, I guarantee you that if you gave a group of 3 year old boys dolls, all of them would be happy playing with them. Give dolls to 6 year old boys and they would reject them because they have been conditioned to believe dolls are only for girls.

[sometimes_miss]

It seems to me that all of humanity is pre-programmed to be the person they are to become, outside elements help to shape the personality. I feel the whole nature vs. nurture thing is bunk. I've had a urge to crossdress since before I knew what it meant. Imagine a 3 year old boy rubbing the legs of a stockinged stranger at the store! Imagine the embarrassed horror of my mother!
I feel that crossdressing is genetic. Why? Well lately, my 3 year old boy began rubbing his grandmother's legs. She is the only one who still wears stockings. Coincidence? You can say its a feeling thing except that he specifically requests she wear black ones! Weird, no? I'm going to have to watch him, give him support I never got.
People say it's a mental issue. We're psychotic. It's easier to hate someone for making poor choices, but how can someone blame you if you were born a certain way?

Ginger
It's nurture and nature. Our brains haven't completed developing just because we're born. Even in old age, we're the sum of all we are, our genetic influences as well as our experiences in life. That's not to say it's all our choice; lots of things happen to us due to other's actions that we have no control over, and those experiences CAN have very strong impacts on us and who we become. I think a lot of people just find it easier to declare that they were born this way or that, than to try to figure out everything.

[GingerLeigh]

So many ideas and opinions on this issue. Well, I never played with dolls. I used to rip off the heads of my older sister's Barbie and throw them into the eavestrough. I was a bit of a brat brother.
I know that nurture plays a large role in the development of a person's personality. The whole reason for the post is to show how I feel we are pre-programmed for the basic life skills/needs.
There was a program on TV awhile ago, not sure if it's broadcast in the States. It was about a doctor and a little boy that tried to find out about the nature vs nurture thing. After a circumsicion that went horrobly wrong, the boys parents agreed to raise him up a girl. It failed. He wanted nothing to do with dolls or being feminine. He kept taking his brother's trucks etc...
The point is, I FEEL we are pre programmed to identify with a specific gender. I identify myself as male in almost every way. There are of course exceptions from time to time. This may not be for all of us here who dress as women, but I think it is for me.
Choice? Sure everyone has a choice. I could choose to ignore how I feel as I had for a very long time. But it eats you up. You become miserable, irritable, driven to drink, and feel like you're missing something... I read in someone else's post and it hit home for me "...It's not something I do, it's something I am..." or something like that.
My son is beginning to exhibit some signs that he may be on the same path as me. Not of his choice and certainly not mine. I won't encourage it because I'd be blamed making him do it down the road, but I will not ignore it either. How the hell can I?
My beliefs are not a cop out. I'm driven to this no less than any other man is driven to be with a woman. It's impossible to ignore your nature.
Anyway, it's just my two cents.

Ginger

[Madilyn A.]

My first CD moment as I understand from my mother is when at about 2 yrs.old. My mother and Aunt were bathing my female cousin and I in the tub. I am told I asked why I was packing and she was not. Then asked my mom to cut it off with scissors! Ouch.... Anyway, I did the stocking rubbing thing from about 2 on as well, putting on mother's shoes and stockings well before 5. And here I am 50 plus years later, still love the same things, but still packing, damit !

[Leslie Langford]

...the Toronto Star today carried a column by frequent contributor Lorraine Sommerfeld, who often writes humorous stories and personal anecdotes about her family which includes two teen-aged boys. Very much in the Dave Barry style, and from the sounds of it, their family dynamics are not unlike those portrayed in ABC's hit comedy " In the Middle". In any event, despite being a devoted mother and possessing all of the requisite maternal instincts, Lorraine is the very antithesis of a "girly-girl", admits to having been the quintessential tomboy when young, is still a "car nut" and very mechanically inclined, and actually does new car reviews for the Toronto Star from time to time. Interestingly enough, her (second) husband is 7 years younger than her, and she is clearly the more dominant partner in the relationship (she typically refers to him as "the Poor Sod" :doh:).

The reason for all of this background info is to set the stage for this link to today's column, wherein she again demonstrates the folly of succumbing to preconceived notions of gender stereotyping, including the (thankfully) discredited notion of "girl's toys and "boy's" toys as we move more and more towards full gender equality:

http://www.parentcentral.ca/parent/newsfeatures/momstuff/article/776323--sommerfeld-he-can-be-such-a-doll

[dana digs sweaters]

Played with both. Barbie rocked! Rain days inside I would play with my sisters. Always barbies. Sometimes dressed too. I was dissapointed in that my sisters could never learn to throw a football like me. Oh well, at least two became cheerleaders.:cheer:

[coolspdx]

My cousins used to play barbie,but I always got punished when I wanted to play with them.It sucked being a boy surrounded by girls!When I was a kid all I wanted to do was play dress up and
play with dolls.I still like playing dress up to this day.A woman should wear dresses,lipstick,high heels and act like a lady.My friends think Im gay,maybe I am who the heck knows.