Mummy? Is that you?

[Persephone]

Was one of our ancient forebearers an Egyptian Pharaoh?

Akhenaten was the ruler of Egypt and the father of King Tut (with a bit of incest since Akhenaten's sister was King Tut's mother).

But was Akhenaten also a crossdresser? Why was he portrayed as very feminine?


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y53/sandylewiscares/Akhenaten.jpg
Tourists view the colossus of Pharaoh Akhenaten in the Egyptian Museum showing his elongated head and feminine hips that long confounded Egyptologists, at the Egyptian museum in Cairo. (AP Photo/Paul Schemm)

According to Paul Schemm of the AP, "The discovery of Akhenaten's remains lay to rest longtime speculation over his physical appearance. Royal statues of the time show an effeminate figure with womanly hips, elongated skull and fleshy lips — leading to speculation he suffered from any number of rare diseases that distorted his body.

"But the mummy and DNA tests showed a normally shaped man without genetic conditions that might given him both masculine and feminine features.

"'It ought to dampen down some of the more dramatic interpretations,' said Barry Kemp, who has been working on the Amarna excavations since 1977. 'But people do love a good story.'"

O.K., so if he didn't actually have a "distorted body," and his DNA wasn't other than "normal male," then could he have been portrayed as more feminine because he was the mummy of crossdressers?

Or is there another possibility?

Could he have been portrayed that way, and even mummified unusually, because he was extremely unpopular?

Akhenaten is thought to have believed in a monotheistic sun god, one god without animal or human form, rather than the popular polytheistic idols.

Could he have been so reviled that the "ultimate insult" was to portray him as a woman?

Perhaps one day we will find out. As for me, I prefer to call him "our Mummy."

[Imogen_Mann]

I sometimes wonder just how much of Egyptology is based in fact, and how much is based on supposition ?

[Persephone]

I sometimes wonder just how much of Egyptology is based in fact, and how much is based on supposition ?

Of course! Just imagine what archeologists 5,000 years from today will figure out about our society.

Fiction writers have dealt with things like that.

For example, "Walter M. Miller's acclaimed SF classic A Canticle for Leibowitz opens with the accidental excavation of a holy artifact: a creased, brittle memo scrawled by the hand of the blessed Saint Leibowitz, that reads: 'Pound pastrami, can kraut, six bagels--bring home for Emma.' To the Brothers of Saint Leibowitz, this sacred shopping list penned by an obscure, 20th-century engineer is a symbol of hope from the distant past . . . " (from Amazon description)

[sterling12]

Seems like I remember reading an article a long time back that gives a plausible explanation for That Statue.

In Ancient Egypt, The Pharaoh is considered to be a "God-King." He is flesh, but also a God. Because The Egyptians typically worshiped male and female Gods equally. (Amman-Rah has to have his female equivalent/partner in Isis.) Perhaps they needed to have a "duality" when they are portraying, and symbolizing their Leader, if he's supposed to be a God.

I'm not A Scholar in Egyptology, but The Article mentions his alleged worship of a single God. Could perhaps The Portrayal of a Figure with dual sexual characteristics be an effort to placate "The Traditionalists," who might have been Political Enemies?

Kind of fascinating, but no doubt it will remain a mystery. Doesn't mean it isn't explainable; they just haven't come up with a good enough theory for general acceptance.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Frédérique]

Or is there another possibility?
Could he have been portrayed that way, and even mummified unusually, because he was extremely unpopular?
Could he have been so reviled that the "ultimate insult" was to portray him as a woman?

I recently heard that statues or representations of Akhenaten are a synthesis between the features of the pharaoh and those of his queen, Nefertiti. This may be the first representation of gender integration in world art (for reasons unknown). Speaking, and writing, as an artist, there is always some level of idealization in portraiture, mainly to appease the patrons who are going to pay for your efforts, or, in the case of ancient Egypt, allow you to survive for another day. However, it is difficult to view or understand 18th dynasty Egyptian art with our modern eyes and come up with meaningful interpretations or explanations…

Historians always look at an object of art and assume it is an accurate depiction of something or someone. “That’s what he looked like” is not necessarily the case. This dynastical period was not a triumph of reality (as we have come to know it) over superstition, so you can expect artwork to be allegorical in nature and serve a function as such. It also needs to be said that the concept of “art for art’s sake” is a modern idea – art had a function in ancient society, and I’m sure it wasn’t even seen as “art” in the first place. Allegory, like the Statue of Liberty or Rosie the Riveter, is a forgotten thing these days, probably because truth (or the truth they let you know) killed it, along with the emancipation of real women in recent times. Historians are looking at things with a contemporary vision that is alien to the simplicity before them, but this happens all the time...

I’ve read about Akhenaten’s supposed appearance, and all the theories and claims about him having one “condition” or another, but who knows? One historian has called Akhenaten “The first individual in history,” and, since he was supposedly bisexual and the product of an incestuous family, this may explain a few things. I mean, if I was in a position of power, had imposing and unusual looks, swung both ways, and had no constraints on doing so, I’d be seeing myself as something special and spreading the word for all to hear, especially if there was nobody capable of questioning my particular take on things…

Akhenaten may have commissioned the sculptors/craftsmen/slaves to depict him, and his family, in this highly unusual manner (to our eyes) for reasons of setting him apart from (or above) others, thus reinforcing his power. That being said, I don't accurately know when this figure was sculpted, which only deepens the mystery. Stranger things have happened, but Akhenaten set a precedent with his rule – this may have been the first “cult of personality,” something we all can relate to some 3,360 years later. What I’m trying to say is we don’t really know what the pharaoh actually looked like, nor are we capable of understanding how ancient peoples thought about him. All that’s left is the art. A physical (and metaphysical) bond exists between the object and the one looking at it, and everyone’s interpretation is equally valid – this is true for all art, BTW…

[Veronica Nowakowski]

In Egypt, men wore makeup and such; it was all around, and relevantly, sexually, open. Premarital sex was not frowned upon, but extramarital sex very much was. The concept of balancing the masculine and feminine was very much alive in Egypt (keep in mind that female pharoahs wore fake beards). I could go on about this for a good while if anyone actually wants to hear it.

[Nicole Erin]

Persephone, I think you read too far into some things.

The fact is, Akhenaten started a CD group. His favorite song was "man, I feel like a woman". He also used to like to watch soap operas, cry at sad movies, and he cherished his Elton John "Love songs" CD.

A not so well known fact is that Akhenaten actually was on trial at one point for pirating music off the Internet. King Tut, before he bacame King, was out walking and listening to Akhenaten's ipod and somehow people found out all the music on it was pirated...

As part of the settlement, Akhenaten was never to own an MP3 player and could go only as far as owning an HD radio. He was also court-ordered to purge all his femme things. After that, he had to dress in private and go back to using a cassette player to record his favorite songs off the radio.

He also preferred Pepsi over Coke.

[Karen564]

I'd say the feminine figure of the statue goes a bit beyond just cross dressing ...No?

Please...lets stop surmising what it really means...because it's true symbolism is way beyond modern day mans Knowledge & lost forever, so what ever any so called expert today says is still pure speculation..

But whatever it is....I still think it's awesome...:thumbsup:

[Veronica Nowakowski]

It's not beyond modern day perception. If you approach it honestly, it will make itself known. Take, for example, the Egyptian priests praying for the Sun to rise again, each night. Did they really think the Sun wouldn't rise? Of course not, these are people with a startling sense of astronomy. Ra (symbolized by the Sun) was all that existed, Apophis a symbol of evil (but also a part of Ra) would swallow Ra. The evil inside of Ra was consuming him. But apply the principle of "as above, so below" and voila: they were praying that the evil within them didn't consume them and they would rise to shine brilliantly themselves.

It's not beyond modern comprehension, just give it a try.

[Cathytg]

Maybe that gets us into the discussion of just what constitutes cross dressing. In some respects, CDing is defined in terms of the social norm and not in terms of how we feel. If men had always been able to wear skirts and heels, we would feel as good wearing them but it would probably not be called cross dressing.

[dawnmarrie1961]

Inbreeding? That explains a lot. So does that make you my sisters and aunts 10,000 times removed?

Well ya know what they say "Incest is Best".

Be safe. Be smart.

Dawn Marrie