The Real Cost of Wives Who Are "Not Accepting"

[Persephone]

I am blessed with a wonderful, accepting spouse. Even so, I sometimes feel guilty as if I may be "taking advantage" of her generosity.

There seem to be a lot of wives who "know" but who are "not accepting."

I wonder if there is a way to help them to understand just what the real cost of that position is. How it results in their partner drawing away from them and the family, sometimes becoming depressed, and possibly even becoming "less of a man."

If they knew what their position, rather than our crossdressing, was doing to their lives, our lives, and our families, would they feel the same way? Or would they start to understand that they need to approach this with more flexibility, working with their mate, rather than against him, to find more comfortable solutions for the good of their family?

[Joanne f]

Although i can see what you are saying i am not sure that it is a fair comment as if you look at it from the other side then suggesting that they should accept it just because their partner likes it may send them into depression and two wrongs do not make a right .

[Nigella]

The complexity of accepting or not accepting is such that there is no one size fits all.

Whilst I can understand your point of view, I cannot accept it. It seems to, IMHO, say accept it or be prepared to loose everything you have.

My marriage is a partnership, I worked with my SO to ensure that my transgenderism did not affect us as a couple, we shared and compromised together, but I was prepared to accept that she was the first thing that mattered to me, I would have done anything to assist her, even if it meant doing, what to some on here, is the unthinkable.

This post is, again IMHO, just another way of saying you have to accept because I want you to.

[gigiluv]

I will monitor this thread as long as it is available. I cannot help you since my wife "knows" but does not accept. You have made some extremely valid points about how there is a distancing between us, and it is her lack of acceptance rather than my crossdressing that is causing. Be sure, however, it is not so much the rejecting as it is the statement that "nothing you do will embarass me, and I support you 100%. Then feak out when she finds dresses in my closet, and orders me to never tell anyone, or join any forums on the subject since is is just a passing fad. It is a dichotomy. I would have understood if she rejected it, but to say she accepts, then reject in her actions is hurtful.

I have two wonderful beautiful daughters that have eagerly embraced this facet of my life, I have a co-worker who is my best friend, and she has embraced it also, but my wife is embarrassed.

I will monitor your responses to see if someone might give me that last piece of information to help me heal this strain on a 23 year marriage, but quite frankly I will have to heal of her hurt as well as she, and I am not sure it can be done. Time will tell.

Anyway, thank you for this thread.

[Persephone]

Dear Joanne and Nigella,

I believe I understand what you are saying, but really feel that you have missed the point of my post.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[Nigella]

Persephone

We can only put our own interpretation on comments and posts, according to how they appear to us. If you believe we have not understood your OP, please feel free to elaborate on your meaning, or point out, certainly in my post, where I have "misunderstood" your meaning.

[carhill2mn]

I agree with your point. IMHO, these "unsupportive/unaccepting, etc." SOs are more concerned about their own feelings, beliefs, etc. than they are about the total relationship status. Thus, I am afraid, there is very little that might be down that would cause them to change their minds. To me, it is a bit like "cutting off your nose to spite your face" as opposed to finding a way to make a "win/win" situation.

[Veronica Nowakowski]

There are multiple facets to this. It is the transgendered person who is out from the norm and exposing their SO to something they didn't expect. However, there is an awful double standard that can arise. If your wife clears everything with you before she does it, then there is no issue with the way she is handling it in not accepting it. But usually, you're supposed to accept it if she cuts her hair off, if she decides to get a breast reduction, or a breast enlargement. If you are supposed to just accept them and they have full say over their body and appearance, then you too should have full say over your own.

Now, where this gets into gray areas is when you're like this in moments of intimacy. Your SO cannot be simply expected to be an instant lesbian or bisexual. That would remove the strain for those of us who move onto hormone therapy or a sex change.

But if you're simply crossdressing, and you're supposed to accept them for who they are; you damn well better bet that they have an equal duty to accept you for who you are. I think Persephone was making a strong statement against the assumption that the mere fact that we are what we are is an attack upon women; that we have something to be ashamed of.

If the world weren't so closed-minded, this turmoil wouldn't exist: neither for us nor our SOs. If we could all simply go out and our SOs met us for the first time as we wish we could be, there wouldn't be such an issue about us having to come out to them later. Such is the nature of injustices like this. If society embraced homosexuality, spouses wouldn't come out after 30 years of marriage and suddenly realize that they're gay men or lesbians. If society embraced us, we wouldn't come out after years of marriages to our spouses and tell them that we crossdress, or that we actually want to be women.

It is, in many ways, that attitude that Persephone writes about that causes so many problems involving transgenderism.

[Cassandra Lynn]

I wonder if there is a way to help them to understand just what the real cost of that position is. How it results in their partner drawing away from them and the family, sometimes becoming depressed, and possibly even becoming "less of a man."
This is exactly the price of full disclosure i have spoke of. Is it still worth it?


If they knew what their position, rather than our crossdressing, was doing to their lives, our lives, and our families, would they feel the same way? Or would they start to understand that they need to approach this with more flexibility, working with their mate, rather than against him, to find more comfortable solutions for the good of their family?
What are the odds that she would? No wonder the secrets we keep!
And to Nigella's comments on having to accept us or loosing everything, the decision is most usually not ours to make.

Now then, go on and throw stones at me for being the naysayer. mj

[Genifer Teal]

I think that when a spouse is unaccepting, it will drive the CDer further into the closet. Then along comes more secrecy. None of this is good for a relationship. Wife's don't have to accept it. That is something the CDer should determine as the relationship develops (or may not).

If the CDer truly only finds this side of them self after marriage, then perhaps more acceptance is warranted from the wife. I believe it is not such an extreme thing to be outside of the "for better or worse" realm. So no crying foul there.

This needs to be mentioned up front to get the due consideration it deserves in the relationship. How often does it get mentioned up front? That might be re root of many problems here.

Gen

[Fran Moore]

But the answer.......may be difficult to find, as every person is different, and as you have seen by some of the responses here, there are a lot of mixed emotions about this subject. While it's easy for a thread like this to run off course, I think your point is valid. If there was only a way to let an unaccepting spouse know WITHOUT emotion coming into play, just as a matter of fact, without pointing fingers or assesing blame, laying guilt, etc., it would at the very least, offer an explanation of attitudes and actions that might otherwise be attributed to something else entirely.

However, I think that for many of us, and our unaccepting spouses, it will simply be part of the "burden" that is beared, due in large part to the societal expectations of gender definitions that for us, are terrribly wrong and misplaced. The world could truly be a better place if folks could see past discrimination and accept, and enjoy one another for who they truly are.

Suzanne

[TabbyJames]

The world could truly be a better place if folks could see past discrimination and accept, and enjoy one another for who they truly are.

Suzanne[/QUOTE]

Suzanne, what a wonderful quote!!! IMHO this is what it is about, unfortunatly not everyone sees it from our eyes. All I hope is that someday this happens and that we can all be accepted for who we are.

I am transgendered and accept who I am!!!!!!

[Kaitlyn Michele]

why is it her responsibility to support you and "accept" your crossdressing, and not your responsibility to support her and "accept" her inability to embrace your crossdressing?

[ReineD]

There are two separate aspects to this issue.

The first is that a wife does have a duty to become informed about the CDing, with a true open mind and not the appearance of an attempt. One cannot make proper decisions without trying on the shoe to see if it fits. And because a wife has likely been misinformed about CDing all her life just like everyone else, her husband will need to be patient while she tries to overcome the very difficult barriers of negative social conditioning. Or perhaps she needs time to reestablish trust over having been lied to. Still, a wife must acknowledge that it is a part of who her husband is, and she cannot tell him who he can or cannot be. At the very least, a wife can decide to agree that her husband needs some time and space to express himself even if she is not involved. If a wife cannot do this and the husband cannot stop CDing, then the marriage fails.

The second side to the issue is a wife who, after having given it a fair try, is unable to wrap her mind around it to her husband's satisfaction. The different styles and strengths of the CDing are too numerous to spell out all the possible areas where they might not come to terms, but if they cannot happily find a compromise, it is not fair for one person to have it all his or her own way and the other to flounder. For example, if the husband is unhappy because his wife doesn't wish to be actively involved, rather if she acknowledges his need to CD but she does not like it, he mustn't deprive himself of all expression. He needs to establish with his wife some regular private times to dress, and keep his clothes in a separate closet if keeping them in their bedroom is too much for the wife. Or, a wife mustn't make herself take it to their bed if she recoils at the thought of having sex with her husband dressed. There are any number of differences a couple may face in between and outside these two examples.

If the couple cannot come to a compromise they can both live with no matter where that falls (it will be different for every couple), then I'm afraid there is a potential for depression for one or the other. In this case they both need to decide whether the marriage can be saved. Living with a permanently depressed spouse is no good solution.

A tricky situation is if they had established a routine they were both happy with and the husband's CDing increases to a point beyond the wife's comfort zone. Then the wife must stretch again, but if the bar keeps moving she might reach a point where she cannot. At this point we're back to deciding if the marriage can survive.

The notion that a wife must fully embrace a crossdressing husband (vs. acknowledging his needs) when she didn't know about it when they were married, or that she must alter her own sexual needs with a late onset TS if the husband's needs have changed throughout their marriage is not fair to the wife. :2c: It is a sad situation and a difficult balance to reach for everyone involved.

[Satrana]

why is it her responsibility to support you and "accept" your crossdressing, and not your responsibility to support her and "accept" her inability to embrace your crossdressing?

So if my wife is racist it is my responsibility to embrace her racism? I thought we were supposed to be moving towards more openness and understanding not embracing close-mindedness and transphobia.

Our responsibility is understanding that letting go of transphobia may be a long and difficult process as it is for ourselves. We need to have lots of patience and understanding and keep the lines of communication open at all times.

However this is not what an unaccepting wife wants. She wants to hang onto a stereotypical masculine image that makes her feel good about herself. To this end she refuses to deal with the subject in a manner which would ensure progress towards some level of acceptance or accommodation. Instead she avoids talking about it and she refuses to educate herself so believes it is only a hobby or fetish that will go away if she ignores it.

The result is an important issue between the couple becomes the elephant in the room and it rots the love out of the relationship. Distrust and resentment builds up in both husband and wife because of the impasse and inability to deal with the strong emotions it creates.

Transphobia is as real as homophobia, racism and bigotry. It is high time we stopped beating around the bush and starting talking about how we tackle this. Because as more and more CDs prevail over their internalized transphobia and leave the closet, there will be more and more relationships gutted by deadlock when wives refuse to deal with their transphobia.

[Michelle-Leigh]

I agree with your point. IMHO, these "unsupportive/unaccepting, etc." SOs are more concerned about their own feelings, beliefs, etc. than they are about the total relationship status. Thus, I am afraid, there is very little that might be down that would cause them to change their minds. To me, it is a bit like "cutting off your nose to spite your face" as opposed to finding a way to make a "win/win" situation.

Exactly ! How my wife perceives my transgendered state is exactly that - nothing more than her perception. If she fails to perceive it as the good thing it is, then it is her loss and not mine. As I have done everything in my power to acclimate her and demonstrate to her the benefits of having a girly husband who understands females way beyond the norm, I am no longer even concerned about how she perceives me.... If she should one day decide that she cannot tolerate it or come to grips with any longer, that is what divorce court is for. I can be nothing other than what I am, and any effort on my part to do so would be as futile as attacking a lunatic asylum with a banana. I am who I am finally free to be, and the rest of the world can either accept it, tolerate it, or reject it.

[Rachel2000]

Fortunately for me, my wife is a health scientist who of did a little research after she found out about Rachel. What she concluded was that this was the card I was dealt in life, there is no "cure" and that there are far worse things in life than a crossdressing husband. Though she is accepting and understanding, she is not crazy about it and gives me my private space to be Rachel. She actually did try to be a part of it for awhile but later concluded she did not really care for it. I feel that I am fortunate to have her and respect her wishes not to be a part of it. Perhaps this will change down the road but I'm certainly not going to push the envelope on the issue but in the mean time, I have more than ample opportunity to dress as she travels for business about 25 weeks of the year. I guess the bottom line is you can't force your spouse to accept it but from my experience, a little education on why we crossdress can only help things go a little smoother.

[Karen564]

After reading this thread,
I felt my blood pressure rising very rapidly.............:Angry3:

[DAVIDA]

Jean made the comment again just the other day, "It really saddens me that people can't be who they really are! Their spouses just don't realize that it(CDing) is a major reason they(the CDer) are the person who the spouse fell in love with to begin with!"

[RhondaLynn]

An unaccepting spouse is detrimental to all parties involved. However, the path to acceptance is a troubled one. Depending on the level & duration of deceit, the context in which she discovers her mate's activities, and her preconceptions of the situation, many issues can emerge from her discovery, all of which must be addressed before she can determine if she can "get her mind around it", as Reine said.

The level of self-acceptance on the CDer's part weighs heavily here. He needs to be able to get his own mind around his actions and her perception of the situation, as well as the developing domestic issues. Both parties must agree to work toward some common mid-ground, then work from there. A clear statement of each person's sexuality, needs, expectations, boundaries & limits should be agreed upon. If both parties make it this far, the foundation for acceptance have been laid.

Well, past here, my thoughts keep drifting into specifics of my experience, which isn't quite the topic of this thread. I found that the gradual exposure to Rhonda allowed my SO to discover the endearing qualities of my gender-duality that she eventually accepted, and has actually grown to prefer at times. We still have a few issues to conquer, but for the most part, her acceptance of Rhonda has built a stronger bond between us. I'm not quite sure how we got here, but well, for now, we're there.

Well, i just heard her get up - i need to go spend some time with her.

[Froggy's Angel]

This thread is very interesting.
I can see everyone heres point of view and agree with bits and pieces of all the posts.

I guess my question of the original poster is,
Are you talking about wives or SOs that do not 100% accept it after years or significant amounts of time in the relationship with out knowing about the CDing?

Because, no offense, but if I had been with someone for decades and then suddenly found out that they had been lying to me for all of those years I would be angry and find it hard to except at first.

My partner revealed his Cding after 2 years and me personally, I was just happy to know the truth.
We were separated and he was miserable and distant and depressed and I didn't know if it was me, our marriage, another woman, or what the problem was, so when he finally told me the truth I was just happy in that moment.

BUT, I have had times of anger and jealousy towards the CDing side over the last couple of years also.
I would never tell him to not CD and I would not limit him to when or how much he can because I want him to be happy.

But we also talk ALOT about every thought and feeling we have now, and I think that has made excepting this side of him a million times easier.
I guess my big advice would be communication, the more everything is out in the open and talked about ALOT the easier things seem to get.

But that's just me, not sure if that helps or answers anything at all for you :)

[Satrana]

Because, no offense, but if I had been with someone for decades and then suddenly found out that they had been lying to me for all of those years I would be angry and find it hard to except at first.

I think everyone knows and accepts a wife's initial reactions will be of shock, bewilderment, anger and hurt. Nobody thinks it is a reasonable expectation that a wife will accept this new information in just a few days or weeks. The issue at hand is how the wife decides to proceed with the issue after the shock has dissipated and she has been given a full explanation.

There are examples of members in this forum who informed their wives decades ago but have never seen any progress towards acceptance. Educational material and books are given to wives which are never read. Attempts to begin conversations about CDing are immediately shut down. Suggestions to attend support groups or gender councilors are rejected out of hand. Some wives correlate their husbands going on-line to chat to fellow CDs on forums like this as the equivalent of cheating.

How can you remain in a loving relationship if one partner holds a phobia about the other? It either leads to a break-up or a cold marriage of convenience. IMO transphobia has to be tackled head on and fears laid to rest.

And often the CD himself is still trapped inside his closet and needs assistance in overcoming his internalized transphobia. In other words there is a great deal of work to be done by both parties to keep the relationship strong. Sweeping the issue under the carpet is never the solution.

[jenifer m.]

my wife is like you said she knows but does not want to accept fully,and never wants to see jenifer.i found that when i came out to her every thing was better.i can only imagine how great things would be if she totally accepted me.

[Tina B.]

There are two separate aspects to this issue.

The first is that a wife does have a duty to become informed about the CDing, with a true open mind and not the appearance of an attempt. One cannot make proper decisions without trying on the shoe to see if it fits. And because a wife has likely been misinformed about CDing all her life just like everyone else, her husband will need to be patient while she tries to overcome the very difficult barriers of negative social conditioning. Or perhaps she needs time to reestablish trust over having been lied to. Still, a wife must acknowledge that it is a part of who her husband is, and she cannot tell him who he can or cannot be. At the very least, a wife can decide to agree that her husband needs some time and space to express himself even if she is not involved. If a wife cannot do this and the husband cannot stop CDing, then the marriage fails.

The second side to the issue is a wife who, after having given it a fair try, is unable to wrap her mind around it to her husband's satisfaction. The different styles and strengths of the CDing are too numerous to spell out all the possible areas where they might not come to terms, but if they cannot happily find a compromise, it is not fair for one person to have it all his or her own way and the other to flounder. For example, if the husband is unhappy because his wife doesn't wish to be actively involved, rather if she acknowledges his need to CD but she does not like it, he mustn't deprive himself of all expression. He needs to establish with his wife some regular private times to dress, and keep his clothes in a separate closet if keeping them in their bedroom is too much for the wife. Or, a wife mustn't make herself take it to their bed if she recoils at the thought of having sex with her husband dressed. There are any number of differences a couple may face in between and outside these two examples.

If the couple cannot come to a compromise they can both live with no matter where that falls (it will be different for every couple), then I'm afraid there is a potential for depression for one or the other. In this case they both need to decide whether the marriage can be saved. Living with a permanently depressed spouse is no good solution.

A tricky situation is if they had established a routine they were both happy with and the husband's CDing increases to a point beyond the wife's comfort zone. Then the wife must stretch again, but if the bar keeps moving she might reach a point where she cannot. At this point we're back to deciding if the marriage can survive.

The notion that a wife must fully embrace a crossdressing husband (vs. acknowledging his needs) when she didn't know about it when they were married, or that she must alter her own sexual needs with a late onset TS if the husband's needs have changed throughout their marriage is not fair to the wife. :2c: It is a sad situation and a difficult balance to reach for everyone involved.



Thank you, you saved me a lot of typing, Sometimes you just have to admit you can't put a square peg in a round hole, if it don't fit, forcing it will not help! Both people need to find what they need, or nothings going to make it work.
Tina B.

[MonicaJean]

I agree with your point. IMHO, these "unsupportive/unaccepting, etc." SOs are more concerned about their own feelings, beliefs, etc. than they are about the total relationship status. Thus, I am afraid, there is very little that might be down that would cause them to change their minds. To me, it is a bit like "cutting off your nose to spite your face" as opposed to finding a way to make a "win/win" situation.

Very well stated. I find that my wife would crucify me if she found out that I had any want-to for this part of my life. My take on this is that these people who are unsupportive have tons of their own issues to deal with. Asking them to accept this part of their spouse is akin to blowing apart the facade of life they have around them, protecting them from going (any) deeper with their spouse.

The real cost is never experiencing a close relationship. Ever. I would bet that CD'ing isn't the only issue in the mix causing distance between the two people, there's lots that needs to be talked about besides CD'ing.

And never experiencing that close relationship is what hurts most.

[Shelly Preston]

All we can do is do our best to inform those not accepting wives

Equally why should we expect them to accept us , you seem to be suggesting that's only them who have to change to help the family unit


Its supposed to be a partenership not a dictatorship

[Sarah_GG]

It is very hard for a wife to accept something that she's been kept in ignorance about for months, years... or decades. She is suddenly presented with (or worse makes a shocking discovery of) something she has no prior knowledge of, and didn't buy into when she married.

For many wives the CDing represents a lifetime of deceit. She will think back to every time she was out of town, to every time she found something odd in the relationship, she'll think about the number of lies that have been told throughout the so-called 'partnership' to allow her partner time to sneak (because that's what her husband will have done) to dress. The trust will be gone. Her partner will likely be unable to give any explanation that she can understand or relate to for his behaviour. She will think that it's been kept secret because it's something shameful. She will reflect her CDing partner's self-loathing right back at him.

If the wife finds out after a long time together and does accept she will be suddenly engulfed in the 'pink fog'. She will wonder what happened to her masculine husband who now seems to want to be a girl and do girly things. Dressing up and going out on the town once in a while may not be an option. She may find that she is not sexually attracted to her husband dressed as a woman. Her husband may suddenly decide he can only get aroused when wearing a nightdress. The goal posts have changed.

If the SO is told at the beginning of the relationship she can decide whether she wants to take it on board... or not. If she doesn't she'll move on, if she does she'll stay. Like anything between a couple, there is negotiation and compromise. There must also be communication. Many couples can't communicate or agree on the weekly groceries, let alone an issue as difficult (for many CDers to discuss) as transgenderism.

I went to a 'do' a few weeks ago and there was a young CDer (about 28) having a great time; dressed-up in the latest fashionable clothes, dancing, drinking, being sociable with everyone... his wife was at home looking after the kids and completely in the dark about his CDing. So, when she does find out I expect she'll think back to all her husband's 'working at the weekend' disappearances and feel very aggrieved.

When CDers stop keeping their wives in the dark then they can stop counting the cost.

[suchacutie]

I know we are focussed on transgenderism here, but can we step back for a moment and look at a relationship from the viewpoint of the many facets that make up the two individuals who have committed to each other?

I'm sure we don't expect that our SOs will embrace every strong feeling we have, nor will we embrace every one of theirs. I have written before about the complexities and danger of the exposure of our transgendered selves to our SOs, before or after a lengthy commitment. Nonetheless, once this exposure has been accomplished, and as volatile as transgenderism can be as a topic, it really is just one more part of the mix. Thus, let's think for a moment about how we handle other issues in a relationship.

Let's face it, if you are really passionate about something and you would like to have it become a part of your relationship, don't you do certain things in order to have that happen? Don't you point out the positives? Don't you go out of your way to make those positive aspects happen? Heck, guys have been bringing flowers and candy to their wives for centuries (I'm using this as a metaphore for any positive reinforcement process) in order to sway their opinion.

So want about being transgendered? There are so many positives features of having a transgendered husband! Isn't it just possible that, after a lot of careful work, that the point finally might come across that your connected lives are better having the "en femme" personality as a part of the relationship? Ok, ok, some people are just completely opposed to gender-crossing. In that case there is probably no hope. For everyone else there has to be a point at which the realization of a better life will overcome the misplaced bias.

It's not easy. It can take a lot of work. But, I'm pretty sure that even those of us who have wonderfully supportive spouses never take them for granted! We work hard at keeping what we have and making it better. Without a supportive spouse it's got to be a longer row to hoe, but I do think we all know how to hoe that row, girls :)

tina

[Joanne f]

Persephone,
i can see the point in saying this as it would have advantages for the CDer and make life a lot easier for the CDer which intern may make life a bit happier for the wife/SO but it has a very big question mark over it .
First of all you have the problem of what you would consider to be acceptable as this will mean different things to different CDs/TGs, yes it might be reasonable to expect some acceptance if you just wanted to wear a skirt some times but we know that it does not stop there , it would go on to be acceptance of fully dressing then acceptance of going out , then meeting others and so on so it would be difficult to agree to what level of acceptance should be expected.
Now the other side is the social stigma side of things as CDing can be thought of as a social stigma to a lot then would it be fair to expect acceptance by the wife/SO if they thought it would damage the family's reputation , i am not saying that it would but the thought of it plays on the minds of those who are caught up in it thought none of their own fault.
Would most married CDers give full acceptance to their wife`s/SO if they were caught up in or doing something that society thought was unacceptable for a woman to do , i can think of a few things that i am sure would upset or depress the husbands if their wife`s came to them and said " look i am doing this and it is my right to expect you to accept it " (be careful how you answer that as your wife may read it):heehee:
So although it would have it`s advantages it is in my opinion not a fair thing to expect at this time where CDing stands in society and anyone who thinks that it really should be accepted automatically should really sort it out before marriage then there is no confusion.
And we should also accept the fact that some wife`s/SO just do not want their man dressing in women's clothes and for them to reach a level of acceptance is asking them to revalue all that they have been brought up to accept .
Not an easy one to answer in a way that would be fair to all .

[sherri52]

The point that your putting acros is a good one but not entirely. We marry for better or for worse not for a complete change in menu. I have been married twice and divorced twice, both times my dressing was an issue. I don't blame my first wife as the dressing was something new to her and she did not embrace it and always complained when I went to the basement at night ( that's where I dressed). She didn't like that side of me and it wasn't what she signed up for. My second wife knew before we got married and didn't accept it but still we got married. We divorced and the dressing was a part of it. She married me for who I was and that didn't change, so yes I blame her for the divorce. We cannot force people to accept the things they do not understand, we can only hope that the understanding comes thier way and our lives together become as one.

[Brandi Wyne]

Don't take this wrong but it's we, not they, who have changed. We appear and maybe are very selfish to persist and pursue a life that they never really signed on for. I can tell you that just because they aren't being rude or unkind doesn't mean they don't feel hurt or at least confused about a relationship that they looked at as permanent and secure.

Don't get me wrong, I am doing the same thing but it's costing me plenty and it's costing her plenty, too.

[AllieSF]

I really like what Reine wrote, which mirrors what I think. I am presently single, mature and started dressing 3 years ago. So I do not speak with experience in a CD and spouse relationship. But I do speak from experience in being in multiple relationships short, mid and long term.

From what I understand from the OP's original post that started this very interesting and informative thread, once the initial and mid-term shock of a "coming out" revelation has on the SO, why is it not reasonable to expect that the SO could and should come to terms with the revelation and work with the partner to find some common ground to try to keep the existing relationship intact and actually grow and develop it for the best? If the SO decides that dealing with this other side of the partner is not possible, why not decide to leave/end the relationship versus deciding to impose the gag and control mode? Yes, I know that deciding to end a relationship with invested emotions, time, finances, family involved is not easy for many people, including me. However, imposing that type of partner control is so counter productive to a healthy relationship. It results in both parties suffering and can easily affect others, the innocent bystanders.

The decision to end a relationship is not a one way street either. Not only should the SO make that decision, if necessary, so should the CDer partner. I strongly believe that the surprised SO has every right to be upset by the unwanted revelation. However, I also strongly believe that the SO has the obligation to make a big effort to understand the situation and then determine if it can lived with or not.

[Joanne f]

I think what complicates this is that Cding in it`s self is not morally wrong which would account for the belief that it should be accepted to some degree and that it is based on personal beliefs and feelings .

[Satrana]

I always felt the "she did not sign up for this" to be the lamest of excuses. Throughout any marriage there are going to be numerous situations and discoveries that neither party signed up for. The whole point of a partnership is for the husband and wife to work together to overcome these situations. What is the point of getting married if the expectation is that everything will stay the same from the day you exchange vows and you are allowed to ignore and reject any changes in the marriage dynamics thereafter.

To me that phrase is only appropriate when the husband changes into a feminine personality and goes full time. Then the wife is no longer living with a man but a woman and that is beyond the original understanding. Otherwise a man is still a man even if he chooses to express his feminine qualities once in a while. Just as women are still women when they wear masculine clothes and take part in traditional masculine activities.

Lets drop the double standards and treat everyone equally for a change.

[Frédérique]

I wonder if there is a way to help them to understand just what the real cost of that position is. How it results in their partner drawing away from them and the family, sometimes becoming depressed, and possibly even becoming "less of a man."

Spare a thought for the woman in the relationship, who may be doing all she can to keep a relationship afloat, trying to make sense of seemingly nonsensical behavior and make the best of things while the bonds between her and her spouse erode for unknown reasons. I mean, I should talk, because I’m not in a relationship at the moment, but I have been part of one where my crossdressing was a problem for HER. I kept doing it, for reasons of “self” (this is very important, you know), but I assumed she wouldn’t understand my behavior no matter how much I tried to explain it to her. Since crossdressing is, at best, unexplainable, I can understand a woman’s reluctance to step out of her gender role and embrace this concept. Many do, but many other women cannot think sideways enough to grasp this incredible idea, which, in my opinion, is rather harmless and beautiful. But, what do I know? I’m not in contact each and every day with a spouse or SO who is smoldering with resentment and wondering what she got herself into. Like I say, spare a thought for the female – what if she was doing something that you couldn’t understand? :eek:

[Leslie Langford]

I wonder if there is a way to help them to understand just what the real cost of that position is. How it results in their partner drawing away from them and the family, sometimes becoming depressed, and possibly even becoming "less of a man."

...the statement "you're not even a real man!" often thrown at me by my wife during the heat of an argument to really rub my nose in my crossdressing.

Yes, dear, you're right - I'm not a womanizer, have always been a faithful husband and dedicated father, have never ignored you in favor of hangin' with the boys, don't have an illegitimate child out there somewhere, don't smoke, do drugs, drink to excess, spend hours and hours glued to the television set watching sports, am not addicted to video games, and am actually capable of picking up after myself and can remember birthdays, anniversaries and other important dates.

Yep, you're right, dear - I am not a "real" man. Too bad you can't recognize a good thing when you see it... :sad::doh:

[charlie]

The non accepting/non supporting wife just could have married the wrong person. When she did she probably did not know that she was marrying a CD. My wife did not. I had not crossdressed in 14 years when I married my wife. I did not even think about it. Ten years later it came back with a vengeance. I did not tell her and she found out because my 4" slingbacks and stretch jeans arrived from the store to my office one day when she was there and I was not. She knew the store. When asked, I did not lie. I never need to lie again. She hates the idea of her man dressing like a woman. It is her right. She thinks it is awful, wrong, abnormal, weird and not natural. She is still with me because she loves me and does not want to not be with me. I'm still with her for the same reasons, but we both know I still am dressing. It is a bone of contention in our marriage. I suppose it will always be. She is not wrong though to not like it, and I do not think it is my right to demand that she support it. She probably never will.

[Fran Moore]

There are two separate aspects to this issue.

The first is that a wife does have a duty to become informed about the CDing, with a true open mind and not the appearance of an attempt. One cannot make proper decisions without trying on the shoe to see if it fits. And because a wife has likely been misinformed about CDing all her life just like everyone else, her husband will need to be patient while she tries to overcome the very difficult barriers of negative social conditioning. Or perhaps she needs time to reestablish trust over having been lied to. Still, a wife must acknowledge that it is a part of who her husband is, and she cannot tell him who he can or cannot be. At the very least, a wife can decide to agree that her husband needs some time and space to express himself even if she is not involved. If a wife cannot do this and the husband cannot stop CDing, then the marriage fails.

The second side to the issue is a wife who, after having given it a fair try, is unable to wrap her mind around it to her husband's satisfaction. The different styles and strengths of the CDing are too numerous to spell out all the possible areas where they might not come to terms, but if they cannot happily find a compromise, it is not fair for one person to have it all his or her own way and the other to flounder. For example, if the husband is unhappy because his wife doesn't wish to be actively involved, rather if she acknowledges his need to CD but she does not like it, he mustn't deprive himself of all expression. He needs to establish with his wife some regular private times to dress, and keep his clothes in a separate closet if keeping them in their bedroom is too much for the wife. Or, a wife mustn't make herself take it to their bed if she recoils at the thought of having sex with her husband dressed. There are any number of differences a couple may face in between and outside these two examples.

If the couple cannot come to a compromise they can both live with no matter where that falls (it will be different for every couple), then I'm afraid there is a potential for depression for one or the other. In this case they both need to decide whether the marriage can be saved. Living with a permanently depressed spouse is no good solution.

A tricky situation is if they had established a routine they were both happy with and the husband's CDing increases to a point beyond the wife's comfort zone. Then the wife must stretch again, but if the bar keeps moving she might reach a point where she cannot. At this point we're back to deciding if the marriage can survive.

The notion that a wife must fully embrace a crossdressing husband (vs. acknowledging his needs) when she didn't know about it when they were married, or that she must alter her own sexual needs with a late onset TS if the husband's needs have changed throughout their marriage is not fair to the wife. :2c: It is a sad situation and a difficult balance to reach for everyone involved.

Out of all the responses and emotion evoked over this thread, I respect your thoughts, and agree with your point of view most of all. It's true that we can love someone for so many different reasons, and feel so closely bonded, but all it takes for some, is one major difference to bring the whole thing crashing down. However, as God has created us all to be unique, there are also those who are able to change, accept, grow, and embrace those unexpected challenges in life. The old "make lemonade from lemons" analogy comes to mind. How about the spouse or S.O. who becomes imobile and needs fulltime care? Some stay and deal with it, others move on.

Each situation and every individual is different, and how we move forward thru life, either alone or together is reflective of that fact.

Peace.


Suzanne