whoo hooo, im going to hell :)

[Felicity71]

I was at work serving customers at my job, when an old lady came in. I served her and asked how was her day. She said she had just come from church and had a good time. I joked ohh thats nice, and then I said im going to hell. "Why!" she asked. I said ohh because im transitioning from male to female. Crikey she went right off and told me God will forgive me, i just have to stop right now. I pointed out my female name badge, and the female shirt im wearing. She says yes I must go back to my old name. I told her before i transitioned i was very unhappy and may have ended up taking my life. Also i said God had made a mistake putting me in this body. She stated back God never makes mistakes. LOL right. She also said she takes the bible literally, every word means what it means.

She eventaully left the store, trying to get me to go to her church. She even rang the store phone later on to tell me her own phone number so i could talk to her more.

This doesnt mean much to me as im no longer religious, but im sure other trans-people must be really offended if they are religious and some zealot needs to force their view on them, and using the good old clincher - Your going to hell.

Allanah

[Stephenie S]

She's right. Goddess doesn't make mistakes. And she made you JUST the way you are. So trying to go back to your unhappy previous self would be against Her wishes.

Be happy.

Stephie

[AKAMichelle]

You really upset her. Your statements caused her a lot of pain. She is going from what she understands of the bible. This is where I have a problem with people who rush to judgment. She believes that transitioning is wrong. That's ok - it's her opinion of what is in the bible.

Secondly, nobody said that transitioning would force you to hell. God's mercy is sufficient. I think you are letting people who judge you cloud your judgment about GOD. People mean well, but sometimes cause harm while trying to do the right thing.

Belief and faith is a personal issue. Nobody should be able to change your opinion. Find the answers for yourself not through well-meaning people who claim to know everything only to have insufficent knowledge of GOD.

Besides every person's journey is different. How do you know that GOD didn't plan for you to transition? We don't know the answer to that one. You will have a unique perspective on GOD's love if you would listen less to the masses and find the answer yourself.

[TNRobin]

The bible is open largely to interpretation since many books are not in the canon, but are relagated to the back rooms somewhere. It does contain a lot of history, but if you read some of the books in the old testament, I forget which ones, you'll find mention of giants 9 feet tall and people living to be 600 or so years old. Maybe we need to find out what their diet was then!:D

I remember once when I was heavily involved in the church and did a year long study of Revalation to include some sections of Daniel and Ezekiel the first week we did a quick read of Revelation and were asked about our thoughts on it. I don't know if you've ever read it or not, but my first thought, and I sometimes open my mouth before I should, was "it sounds like John was doing some serious drugs." Half of the group damn near fell out of their chairs laughing, the other half was convinced that I was going to hell for that comment.

If you actually read the entire bible you'll discover that the only salvation issue is a belief in Jesus Christ as your savior. There are no other conditions to include violating every commandment that is in the bible and being a mass murderer. I left the church about 6 years or so ago and haven't been back.

[Fab Karen]

It's sad how some pass judgement that way ( despite Jesus teaching to do the opposite ).
Amazing how some people in this day & age of great knowledge can take literally a book written by superstitious chauvinists ( & it's been re-written many times by kings & church-leaders to suit their personal desires )

[Genifer Teal]

She's right. Goddess doesn't make mistakes. And she made you JUST the way you are. So trying to go back to your unhappy previous self would be against Her wishes.

Be happy.

Stephie

I believe it depends how you look at it. The "mistake" may have been intentional. That does not mean you have to live with it. The lessons learned in transitioning and finding one's true self may have been the purpose that was intended.

Upon second reading of your quote, we may be thinking the same about this.

Gen

[sherri52]

It may not have been a mistake. God may have set you in the mans body to see how a man percieves life. Knowing you would have to transition gave you a lesson in humility. When you finally reach your destination of being a woman he may have a job for you to do.

[Mirani]

You started it!
She wouldn't have engaged in such a deep way if you hadn't have said "I'm going to hell" and then given your life story!

I certainly wouldnt want that from anyone serving me in a shop or restaurant or wherever!

So, as you started it - you only got what you asked for.

(BTW goodluck and best wishes with your transition)

[Mariah]

Jesus died for our sins, there for all the sins we do are paid for so we are all going to heaven, Were Golden ;P

Mariah

[GypsyKaren]

You started it!
She wouldn't have engaged in such a deep way if you hadn't have said "I'm going to hell" and then given your life story!

I certainly wouldnt want that from anyone serving me in a shop or restaurant or wherever!

So, as you started it - you only got what you asked for.

(BTW goodluck and best wishes with your transition)

Just what I was going to say, you're the one that turned a simple chat into an issue.

KS

[Felicity71]

Just what I was going to say, you're the one that turned a simple chat into an issue.

KS Yahh, i guess i pushed her buttons. :) The silly thing is ill be running into her week after week, as she comes to buy fuel regularly.

[Teri Jean]

A lot of people believe what their church has taught them since they were children. Most of it is church doctrine that is based on the bible so it must be true. There is a verse in the bible that states one should not place a stone before one's brother as not to cause them to stumble. Just because one feels they are right to assume their interpetation is correct it would unwise to cause one's brother (sister) to stumble by forcing one's beliefs.

If people really wanted to do as the bible states there is the golden rule. Enough said?

Teri

[TerryTerri]

I was at work serving customers at my job, when an old lady came in. I served her and asked how was her day. She said she had just come from church and had a good time. I joked ohh thats nice, and then I said im going to hell. "Why!" she asked. I said ohh because im transitioning from male to female. Crikey she went right off and told me God will forgive me, i just have to stop right now. I pointed out my female name badge, and the female shirt im wearing. She says yes I must go back to my old name. I told her before i transitioned i was very unhappy and may have ended up taking my life. Also i said God had made a mistake putting me in this body. She stated back God never makes mistakes. LOL right. She also said she takes the bible literally, every word means what it means.

She eventaully left the store, trying to get me to go to her church. She even rang the store phone later on to tell me her own phone number so i could talk to her more.

This doesnt mean much to me as im no longer religious, but im sure other trans-people must be really offended if they are religious and some zealot needs to force their view on them, and using the good old clincher - Your going to hell.

Allanah

I finally found a good retort to those fundamentalist religous people who us the "bible tells me so" crap. (Don't get me wrong, I respect the bible. But, what it READS and what it means are different things. The meanings are filtered through langauge translations, social customs of the bible's time verse our time, and personal interpretation.) Anyway, it also says in the bible that I should sell my daughter into slavery and that if we work on Sunday, we should be stoned to death. If someone wants to adopt a literal translation of the bible they shouldn't selectively choose what they wish to literally understand. Leviticus has a bunch of stupid must and must nots in it, such as mixing linen and wool. Anyway, another interesting fact is that the modern translations we have were translated from Greek text and the Greek language, at that time, literally had no word for homosexual. So that, any reference to homosexuality was directly added when the bible was translated into English. I realize that homosexuality and transgender are distinctly different. But, most fundementalist treat them simiarly because they have not the open mind to consider that they are different.
My $0.02 anyway.

[SuzanneBender]

You know what. I just want to give this old lady a hug. Sure she is a fundamentalist and has some pretty fervant beliefs that I would be willling to debate. But you know what.....

Allana she cares about you. She cares enough to talk with you about it and even call you. She believes as deeply about this as you do and unlike most disassociated people today she is willing to take the time to reach out to another human being. In today's society if someone tells a stranger that they are going to hell in all likelihood the stranger is going to retort, "Pack light cause its warm and you won't need that many clothes there" and then they will move on never giving you or this situation a second thought.

Maybe God is at work here. Not to convince you to go back to your old ways, but to show her that God moves in mysterious ways and that he truly did create each of us in his image, flaws and all. Maybe she needs another person in her life that has a good heart and that person is you.

Hang in there gal. Just wanted to share a view from the eternal optimists perspective.

[Karen564]

IDK,
Seems like a sweet lady to me...more like in a motherly sort of way & just trying to help you..

When you said your going to hell AND told her that your transitioning all in the same breath, that may have sent the wrong signal to her, figuring you see it as being the wrong thing to do...and so she wanted to help you in the only way she knows..
I say God bless her...

I don't like talking about religion or politics because everyone thinks their right & the other is wrong.....and always causes such a rift because of it......But I just see it as a personal choice & freedom to believe what ever they want to...because who am I to say anything....

I may have been brought up Catholic, and went through all the traditional steps to be a good Catholic, but today have my own views on religion & God..
I do love God and believe loves me in return, and even feel like God now loves me more for what I'm doing..I see nothing wrong living my true self and think that's all my lord ever wanted me to do from the start..I now realize that I was given this gift, and now see a purpose in it..

So I have no problem with God now, and if what I'm doing is wrong, it will only be between us, Not some Bible thumper..

I've questioned the Bible many times, and always saw it as open to personal interpitation..and do think it's a great read.!!
But I for one do not not need a Bible to tell me the difference between right & wrong, my Soul does that for me very well...
It's common sense if you think about it without bias, but unfortunately for some, not everyone was blessed with that..

My very simple mind now looks at it like this,

As ingenious as all those scriptures are, God did not write the Bible......MAN did that, ...so who do you trust, a book written by man or God...?

I'll put my faith in God.:love:

[Dutchess]

Im a GG so I probably shouldnt be here but still .. we all hang out together on the forums it seems.. I agree with Sherri , Suzanne and Karen....

Me and the CD-er are Catholic ,,, not fundamentalist ,,,but I agree ,, she just cares about you thats all . Like a grandmother ,,in her mind she doesnt want anything bad to happen to you .. I just told my Dutchie today how much I missed my grandparents. I dont think God made a mistake with you either or any of us here ,,no matter what we may think ,, we are all here to learn ..something... some of us know ,, some of us don't know... This is a learning experience for something else. Some of us are tested more than others..

:love::love:

[Karen564]

Im a GG so I probably shouldnt be here but still ..

Awwww, You don't need to feel that way, your more than welcome here anytime, so by all means, drop in as much as you want too...
Us girls need to stick together...:hugs:

[Sharon]

Unless a speaker has walked in our shoes and shared our thoughts, whatever opinion they may have should be taken with a grain of salt at best. They may express themselves well, or even intelligently, but they don't have a clue as to whether we will be in either heaven or hell on our day of judgment..., if there, indeed, is a Heaven at all. If not..., well, this is all moot, isn't it? :)

[Felicity71]

You know what. I just want to give this old lady a hug. Sure she is a fundamentalist and has some pretty fervant beliefs that I would be willling to debate. But you know what.....

Allana she cares about you. She cares enough to talk with you about it and even call you. She believes as deeply about this as you do and unlike most disassociated people today she is willing to take the time to reach out to another human being. In today's society if someone tells a stranger that they are going to hell in all likelihood the stranger is going to retort, "Pack light cause its warm and you won't need that many clothes there" and then they will move on never giving you or this situation a second thought.

Maybe God is at work here. Not to convince you to go back to your old ways, but to show her that God moves in mysterious ways and that he truly did create each of us in his image, flaws and all. Maybe she needs another person in her life that has a good heart and that person is you.

Hang in there gal. Just wanted to share a view from the eternal optimists perspective.

yes its possible she really believes she can "save" me.

I talked to my flatmate and she said i should have known better than goading someone like that. Its just ive served her before and thought she was a pain in the ass when she comes into the shop everytime.

Next time i wont bait the church goers that come in. I promise :) except maybe those pesky Jehoveh Witnesses that like to give me their Pamphlets. :P

[Hope]

I promise :) except maybe those pesky Jehoveh Witnesses that like to give me their Pamphlets.

Ugh. Jehovahs... You know they even come and hassle me and I am clergy...

About the whole going to hell thing - it doesn't sound like you are worried about it - and you shouldn't be - but if you are, let me say this - as one of those who have been put in charge of the gate I can comfortably say that you are not going to hell - and I can say that as a person with the authority to make it happen.

It sounds like you are more annoyed / amused by the fundamentalist you encountered. Let me apologize for her behavior and say emphatically that the fundamentalists do not represent decent christians. They are an embarrassment and I feel like I live my life decrying them. And let me go further to say that most of us think that they are - well - as clueless and out of touch as you think they are.

[meri]

Allana,
Based on your story, I believe at some level you are still wrestling with that demon yourself. That deep down inside you are worried about going to Hell for what you are doing.

We were *all* programmed at a very early age to fear God and fear the church. That the consequences would be the eternal torment of our souls. I very rarely attending church and my parents rarely went. However, I too was programmed.

You could consider such ideas as a "virus" that is passed from one person to another. No one alive has ever experienced going to Hell when they die, yet, the fear, the notion persists and like a virus is passed on to each new generation.

We are also told that God is love, pure love and doesn't make mistakes. All of us find ourselves in a very difficult position, that is, bucking the gender "norms" of our society. For most of us, this started at a very early age, thus, we must have been designed this way from the beginning.

Taken in the light of God doesn't make mistakes, then that does that really mean? It means we are supposed to have the "gender issue" to wrestle with, it's a challenge that was deliberately placed in our path to resolve -- in our own, unique and deeply personal way.

What we actually do with the issue, how we resolve it doesn't matter, any working solution will do be it transition or simply finding a way to cope.

What really matters is finding a way to make peace with it, loving yourself for who and what you are in whatever way you choose to define yourself. Then, living day to day in love, not fear. Acceptance, not worry. That is the goal. How you solve it is not really relevant to anyone but you. It's your puzzle to solve.

In my case, I bounce in and out of the peace I am describing. However, of late, I find myself more in than out. Once you reach a point of self-love (instead of self-hate and self-loathing), you will know it and recognize it.

Here's the thing, this is an issue that has been with us all of our lives and still occupies a majority of our waking thoughts. Imagine what we could accomplish if we were completely at peace with our gender issues...?

I am rambling, sorry -- look, there is no Hell, there is no devil, that all BS that has been made up to control people with one of the best control mechanisms ever devised, "fear".

Why would God (mother, father, inbetween) ever create such a crummy system where you would be born into a place with such a difficult issue to solve that failure to solve meant being thrown into a firey pit for all time and torment? What kind of God would do that? Heck, I personally would have more compassion for people than such a God as this seems to have and I am no God.

Here's a book for you, read "Conversations with God", Walsh. It will go a very long way at undoing some of the damage that you have suffered just by being a member of the human race (it's a good anti-virus) ;)

[Dutchess]

Awwww, You don't need to feel that way, your more than welcome here anytime, so by all means, drop in as much as you want too...
Us girls need to stick together...:hugs:

Thank you Karen...now I dont feel so shy :battingeyelashes:


Ugh. Jehovahs... You know they even come and hassle me and I am clergy...

Let me apologize for her behavior and say emphatically that the fundamentalists do not represent decent christians. They are an embarrassment and I feel like I live my life decrying them. And let me go further to say that most of us think that they are - well - as clueless and out of touch as you think they are.

First of all I had NO IDEA that the Jehovahs would try to convert/approach the clergy of another faith in that manner ..... but I know what you mean ,,both the fundamantalists here in the states ( for those who arent in the US ) and the Jehovahs - well.. you wouldnt belive the things they think we are as Catholics...

You never know what you are going to learn on this forum

[carolinoakland]

I don't believe God made a mistake, he did this for a reason. It definately taught me to stop thinking and trust my instincts. And trust in love. The one's who take things completely and literally don't have the capacity to trust themselves. They are looking for the comfort of boundaries. Carol

[Myojine]

I was at work serving customers at my job, when an old lady came in. I served her and asked how was her day. She said she had just come from church and had a good time. I joked ohh thats nice, and then I said im going to hell. "Why!" she asked. I said ohh because im transitioning from male to female. Crikey she went right off and told me God will forgive me, i just have to stop right now. I pointed out my female name badge, and the female shirt im wearing. She says yes I must go back to my old name. I told her before i transitioned i was very unhappy and may have ended up taking my life. Also i said God had made a mistake putting me in this body. She stated back God never makes mistakes. LOL right. She also said she takes the bible literally, every word means what it means.

She eventaully left the store, trying to get me to go to her church. She even rang the store phone later on to tell me her own phone number so i could talk to her more.

This doesnt mean much to me as im no longer religious, but im sure other trans-people must be really offended if they are religious and some zealot needs to force their view on them, and using the good old clincher - Your going to hell.

Allanah
im going to hell anyways, and im going to enjoy laughing my cruelty off when i see the people who think they were so richious to me, burning with me. Bittersweet pain, and justice.
It states that god made a mistake right in genisis!
Im agaisnt Religious zelotsey, heretical people they are.
Small minded people.

one saying i have come to love is actually from an Ecchlisyarcal Zelotcy.
because its true.
"A Small mind is easily filled with Faith"
~Sisters of Battle~
i could say im somewhat of an anti-relgious zelot.
i believe such religion is a poison and corruption. Accepted psychotic behavior.
Realy im going to close my eyes and speak to someone who no one can see or hear or talk to.
Truth be told sounds a little bit like a child and their imaginary friend.

[suzy1]

I’m an atheist what more can I say

[GypsyKaren]

Let's not turn this into an anti-religion thread, okay?

KS

[DanteDonovan]

I'm going to address something here that everyone else seems to have looked over.

Yes, the lady was what we like to call the stereotypical type, but I do have to applaud her for being the type that tries to be helpful, and not a bitch.

I saw you admit that you started it, true enough. However, what I want to say is not that you started it, but that you shouldn't have done it at all. I think it's rude to just tell random people about sexual preferences, personal life, gender preference and orientations. Nobody cares. (I'm not meaning that in a snot way.) I'm just meaning it that if they cared they'd be walking around asking everyone about it.

There is a difference in being confident and not caring what others think, and having to tell everyone what you are and putting it in their face. I also get the feeling that in your mind, a good part of you just wanted to see the religious lady squirm. Poking the stick at the dog just to see what happens. It was uncalled for and just not cool.

I know your intentions were not meant to be negative, but it can hinder the long desired acceptance of the GBLT world, in the sense that some people will just see it as being audacious and rubbing their faces in it. It won't help them be tolerant. So, try to think a little bit more before saying certain things.

In all honesty, I would have told you "First, yay you." :thumbsup: "Second, frankly my dear, I don't give a damn. Now ring me up."

I'm not trying to be mean at all, but just trying to open you up to more of what could happen as a result from doing something like that, even if no ill intentions were meant.

[Felicity71]

I'm going to address something here that everyone else seems to have looked over.

Yes, the lady was what we like to call the stereotypical type, but I do have to applaud her for being the type that tries to be helpful, and not a bitch.

I saw you admit that you started it, true enough. However, what I want to say is not that you started it, but that you shouldn't have done it at all. I think it's rude to just tell random people about sexual preferences, personal life, gender preference and orientations. Nobody cares. (I'm not meaning that in a snot way.) I'm just meaning it that if they cared they'd be walking around asking everyone about it.

There is a difference in being confident and not caring what others think, and having to tell everyone what you are and putting it in their face. I also get the feeling that in your mind, a good part of you just wanted to see the religious lady squirm. Poking the stick at the dog just to see what happens. It was uncalled for and just not cool.

I know your intentions were not meant to be negative, but it can hinder the long desired acceptance of the GBLT world, in the sense that some people will just see it as being audacious and rubbing their faces in it. It won't help them be tolerant. So, try to think a little bit more before saying certain things.

In all honesty, I would have told you "First, yay you." :thumbsup: "Second, frankly my dear, I don't give a damn. Now ring me up."

I'm not trying to be mean at all, but just trying to open you up to more of what could happen as a result from doing something like that, even if no ill intentions were meant.

alrighty, ive read what youve said. You do make some good points. When i see her again, i will apologize for making a flippant statement. I will state to her politely that i wont discuss my gender with her again. Im a woman and never will I be otherwise.

[DanteDonovan]

Nice ^^

I do have to say I very much respect that you are going to go to the lengths of saying something to her. Most people(when something awkward or whatever has happened) tend to just avoid the other and subject. Kudos to you (:

A true lady <3 :hugs:

[Myojine]

Let's not turn this into an anti-religion thread, okay?

KS

sorry >_<.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

:heehee:the customer is always right...

[donnalee]

"God save me from the kindness of strangers." - DonnaLee - 1995 :battingeyelashes: