Cruel ignorance of TGs

[helenr]

I am traveling and set my recorder to get the Anderson Cooper program about Susan-the former city manager in FL-'her name was Steve'-last saturday(so I can fastforward through 100 commercials).
I was googling it today and was reading some of the hateful comments by sub- humans who posted on the local newspaper site-so depressing how vicious and uncaring the posts were. I read that Susan now has a job in another Florida city-glad that enough are enlightened. I really wonder if we can expect any true acceptance in the next 20 years-or ever?

[gillian1968]

I unfortunately missed the special, turns out CNN isn't part of my cable package :Angry3:

In looking for comments on it, I too have seen so much hurtful writing. Let's just hope that these are just the few angered enough to write something and the majority of visitors are as saddened as we are about their attitude.

[Kimberly Marie Kelly]

But Ms Stanton also said some things that angered some in the Trans community, as an example she stated that when she went to her first trans convention, "She saw alot of ugly men in Dress's" which angered some other Trans Activist such as Donna Rose. But overall it was her story, her views and many of them are the same we all have in our own journey's. Her outing was forced on her by the news media and she had no ability to control it and due to her position was very public, which attracted all the un-enlightened hateful left. She took her blows but continued her journey alone as many of us do. She finally got a position in another Florida city after several years. She had the courage to do what she needed to do, to be herself. For that she get's my respect. Kimberly Marie Kelly :battingeyelashes:

[TNRobin]

I limit my television to DVDs only since there's never anything on and I hate to pay for junk.

But as to the original question; I think that if you look back 20 years and think about what it was like then and then double that improvement (since I believe that many more of us are coming out now) I think that it'll give you a good idea of what to expect in 2030. Not exactly mass acceptance, but pretty decent I think.

Unless of course the Mayan calendar date of December 21 (or 22) 2012 really is the end of the world, then all bets are off.:tongueout

[Plasibeau]

I try to look it in the sense tht it usually takes an entire generation to pass for a social change to be accepted. A perfect case in point would be the Gay Rights movement. Started in the late eighties, picked up steam in the nineties and gained acceptance socially in the mid oughties. That's oughly twenty years. Thanks to Jerry Springer the door on the trans movement was properly kicked open until the late nineties so we still have sometime.

But look at it this way. The fact that Stu was able to even reach that position speaks volumes as to where we are socially. That would not have happened fifteen years ago. :2c:

[Veronica Nowakowski]

I try to look it in the sense tht it usually takes an entire generation to pass for a social change to be accepted. A perfect case in point would be the Gay Rights movement. Started in the late eighties, picked up steam in the nineties and gained acceptance socially in the mid oughties. That's oughly twenty years. Thanks to Jerry Springer the door on the trans movement was properly kicked open until the late nineties so we still have sometime.

But look at it this way. The fact that Stu was able to even reach that position speaks volumes as to where we are socially. That would not have happened fifteen years ago. :2c:

The gay rights movement began decades before that; you just didn't hear about it until then.

[Katesback]

Ignorance comes from all walks of life. People are ignorant of blacks, women, muslims, christians, gay, transgender. You name it. Personally I just live my life as I wish. It is not a concern to me about other peoples issues.

Katie

[GypsyKaren]

Ignorance comes from all walks of life. People are ignorant of blacks, women, muslims, christians, gay, transgender. You name it. Personally I just live my life as I wish. It is not a concern to me about other peoples issues.

Katie

You can also substitute the word "hatred" for "ignorant" because this country has always been about hatred, racism, and bigotry, and anyone who thinks different is kidding themselves.

Karen :g1:

[helenr]

good constructive comments. I have not yet viewed the commercial less program which I will do next week, but I am concerned that the newly GRS Susan expressed some regrets-that the ramifications were pretty dramatic, costly. too bad this wasn't fully assessed prior to surgery. I don' t know where it was performed, but I would hope that any conscientous surgeon would surely require supporting reassurances-psych letter, living full time-clearly that was waived, apparently. too bad as it tends to hurt the situation for others seeking this surgery.
Regarding the remark attributed to Steven-that he viewed participants as unattractive,that is too bad.It is wonderful to have a great imagination, but no SRS is going to turn an average looking man into a fashion model beauty. Important to look close in the mirror-not just to apply eyeliner. please don't expect too many transformations. best wishes, helen

[GypsyKaren]

Important to look close in the mirror-not just to apply eyeliner.

I know a lot of people that should have that tattooed on their forehead.

Karen

[Hope]

You can also substitute the word "hatred" for "ignorant" because this country has always been about hatred, racism, and bigotry, and anyone who thinks different is kidding themselves.

No kidding. What is even more disgusting (is it possible?) is how "values," "family values" in particular, have become the code word for, and justification for that hatred.


I don' t know where it was performed, but I would hope that any conscientous surgeon would surely require supporting reassurances-psych letter, living full time-clearly that was waived, apparently. too bad as it tends to hurt the situation for others seeking this surgery.

Susan saw a therapist (of dubious value from what they showed) and I assume that she followed all of the there standards of care. That didn't seem to be the problem. The problems I saw seemed to come from Susan herself. Suggesting that trans people don't deserve equal rights and employment protections because people might be unnerved by us. (I am paraphrasing of course because I don't have the quote in front of me) That was pretty bad. Being a very public voice who is unsure of what she wanted to say - that was pretty bad. Not standing up for herself and suing the city that fired her without cause was pretty bad.

At the same time - she didn't have a lot of support. She was outed by a ethically bereft giggling idiot of a reporter (who really seemed to be proud of herself). Her wife pretended to be supportive, but is obviously still so ashamed that she was unwilling to show her face on camera. Her community turned on her, resulting in her unwarranted unemployment.

She had some serious setbacks to overcome (don't we all?) and so I don't begrudge her the unfortunate things she said / feels... But I got the feeling while watching the documentary that she didn't do her homework, or was suffering from some serious internalized trans-phobia; which is normal I suppose, but not exactly the qualities I look for in a spokesperson.


No SRS is going to turn an average looking man into a fashion model beauty. Important to look close in the mirror-not just to apply eyeliner. please don't expect too many transformations.

It is absolutely true that no SRS will turn one into a beauty - and I LOVE the quote It is "Important to look close in the mirror-not just to apply eyeliner." But I think we can all expect transformations - just not effortless ones. I recently heard a quote (and I don't know to who to apply attribution) "There are no ugly women - just lazy women." I know a lot of people will chafe at that quote - but I hear it as a word of hope. Beauty is possible for all of us. Certainly it comes easier for some, and everyone has a different range of possibilities, but there are no ugly women, just women who aren't willing to expend the effort, who are not willing to do the work to be beautiful. That changes things from an impossibility to a choice. That opens the door to hope.

We can expect transformations - we just can't expect them to happen w/o our effort.

[Jenny Chen]

I been looking up this show, seeing as i do not get this channel i been digging online with no success.

Anyone know where i can watch this streamed?

[sherri52]

It's a shame that people care more about what you are, rather than who you are or what you can do for thier community

[KarenCDFL]

You can also substitute the word "hatred" for "ignorant" because this country has always been about hatred, racism, and bigotry, and anyone who thinks different is kidding themselves.

Karen :g1:

Hi Karen,

Your remark just about sums it all up. I could not agree more with you.

Another Karen!

[Sharon]

I been looking up this show, seeing as i do not get this channel i been digging online with no success.

Anyone know where i can watch this streamed?

If it's available, it's likely to be found on CNN.com.

[Stephenie S]

Google <CNN on line>. Then put <Her Name was Steven> in the search box and click on it. I didn't notice if the entire show was there, but there were several shorts available. Perhaps the whole show is there. It was two hours long, including commercials.

I was not that impressed. The show seemed fair, but it was for entertainment purposes, after all. It would be nice if we could see some of the unqualified successes that ARE out there. Susan is now working again as a city manager and back in Florida. It took more than two years though. But really, in this job market, that's not all that bad. She had a rocky transition, but who doesn't?

Stephie

[Fab Karen]

lots of fundies spend their time looking for such stories to spew their hate, trying to make it look like they're the majority opinion.

[Stephenie S]

Sorry, I have seen this word several times recently. What's a "fundie"?

Stephie

[Arianna Aine]

'fundie' is kinda a pet-word for a fundamentalist christian. i personally picked it up from the webcomic Oh My Gods ^_^

[MJ]

still looking for the whole thing ...

http://www.pbpulse.com/tv/2010/03/12/her-name-was-steven-spotlights-lake-worth-city-manager/

http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/03/10/her.name.was.steven/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_living+%28RSS%3A+Li ving%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher

[helenr]

not sure if this is useful or relevant, but I truly wonder why more who have witnessed the hell that those with high public profiles don't try to keep matters more secret. For example, if Steve was so unhappy with his male reproductive parts, have an orchi, see if that brings some inner peace. take hormones-wear looser shirts, don't publicize your changes. help save the sympathetic wife's face-since this clearly was viewed as embarrassing, maintain normalcy for others affected-son included. keep high paying job, avoid the huge monthly child support/etc costs.
yes, it is great to be bold and make a dramatic statement, express what is inside, but sometimes the price paid is simply exorbitant. Glad Susan earned another good job, but I have to wonder if it was all worth while. this is not meant as any sort of criticism of readers of this who are undergoing GRS, but please be aware of the huge 'societal price' you may pay. Yes, the world sucks, but that is where we exist.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

That's a good point helen..its a trade off to fully transition vs cope with things half way vs fight it until the end..

but sue stanton (IMHO) is not a good example..she definitely sought this out

i actually met sue stanton...we took a one hour hike with another person..

she was very obnoxious to me..(in fact the person that introduced me to her later apologized!!!)

she was negative, opinionated, and frankly hypocritical in the sense that she clearly seeks out this attention, then railed against it...

I'm not a fan..i think she's a terrible spokesperson..

the best folks to represent us tend to be the least likely to speak out...they just want to live their lives in a healthy happy way..

[Zenith]

I dunno...after just watching a few bits and reading what Kaitlyn wrote, I get the impression (could be wrong) that this person hasn't let go of the self-involvement and sense of male privilege that comes with initial stages of transition...

You have to let go of the thoughts that the world is out to get you, (or even cares that much actually), and just live your life. Yeah it's tough, but the impression I have been trying to make on others is that transition can be very true to self and very important for some of us. We can be better people...

Yeah I know...preaching to the converted here...but I've actually reached quite a few others out there too...:)

:sb:

[Nicole Erin]

There are always gonna be a-holes.
Will always be someone who has a problem.

Let's not forget that on the web, yeah people post hateful comments.
It is easy to do cause one doesn't have to have any reprocussions from spewing hate over a web page.

[Karen564]

but sue stanton (IMHO) is not a good example..she definitely sought this out

i actually met sue stanton...we took a one hour hike with another person..

she was very obnoxious to me..(in fact the person that introduced me to her later apologized!!!)

she was negative, opinionated, and frankly hypocritical in the sense that she clearly seeks out this attention, then railed against it...

I'm not a fan..i think she's a terrible spokesperson..

the best folks to represent us tend to be the least likely to speak out...they just want to live their lives in a healthy happy way..

:iagree:

I never met Ms. Stanton personally, but I never heard anything positive come from her when she speaks, and from my own observations, she came across to me exactly as Kaitlyn described to a T..so thanks Kati for confirming my thoughts about her..

The sad thing is, the media puts these less than desirable TS personalities on public view far more than the good ones...because I know many fantastic & well adjusted TS women that are far greater examples that should be receiving much more attention than they do, but the national media seems to show no interest in shinning a positive light upon us during prime time hours with the exception of a few..but even then, it's tainted in the editing room...

I think Julie nailed it too, and I get the impression that Ms. Stanton seems stuck in between, as in she hasn't fully embraced womanhood & hasn't or doesn't want to let go of her male ego...I could be wrong, but that's what I see...


To be fair, she has every right to live as she wants to, what ever that is, and I could care less about that, But she has no business representing me as a ts woman & others like me....because were not even on the same page..

To be honest, I think she's another example of what happens when someone slips through the cracks ...........Oops, I'll stop right here before I get in trouble...because the girls that know me well already know what I'm thinking..
:drink:

[Heatherx75]

Oh dear god, why do they do this to us? Somebody at work was telling me about this documentary today... It didn't sound like something I wanted to watch then, now I know it's going to feel like food poisoning, or at least a root canal. What's worse is that I now feel obligated to actually watch at least a little bit of it, so I'll know what I'm ranting about.
I'll tell you this: I don't actually like EVERY transsexual I've ever met, but most of them are pretty awesome people. And I've met a lot of trannies. The only one I actually don't like at least stands up politically for her fellow trans folk. If that sellout wants to go back to living in the seventies, it's her prerogative. I just wish they wouldn't make documentaries about her.

[helenr]

I appreciate all the insightful posts. It is unfortunate that high profile situations can flavor the public opinion, which tends to be negative at best regarding transgenders. I wonder how Susan got through all the pre requisites for SRS or GRS without confirming this was what she should pursue. I know so little of her personal life, but I sense that she has regrets and this just fuels the know it all jerks in public.
I appreciate that for many staying 'in the closet' won't be fulfilling. It sure can wreak havoc on families with high public profiles and consequences need to be analyzed fully before going public. that is just my opinion.

[Suzy Harrison]

Some people will always hate someone that's different or someone who is in a minority. Usually it's due to lack of education..

[rachael.davis]

I tried watching it on Saturday and Sunday night, and couldn't. I hope Susan does well from this but she seemed like an unhappy train wreck.