How do Crossdressers attract male sex partners?

[vetobob9]

What the **** over?
I was in my anthropology class yesterday and they were talking about some native american group. In the film, a documentary, it turns out this tribe has 3 genders, male, female, and muche. The muche is anyone who is a crossdresser and anyone who is transgendered. Note, it sounds very much like they are combining the two types of people.
During the discussion a young male student asked, "how do crossdressers attract their male sex partners if they aren't really women?" What the ****. He's assuming that just because a guy is wearing a dress that means he is gay. On the flip side some people think that if you wear women's clothing it automatically means you want to change your physical sex. It seemed like his experience of the world was rather limited if that is what he "knows" about crossdressers.
What about all the crossdressers who are not only married but have very strong preference for sexual relations with women?
Why is it that if you wear women's clothing you have to be gay?
What is your take on this?

[anabelle]

Maybe there was a ton involved that I cannot hear from your telling of the story but from just seeing the post it sounds like you have maybe read into it far too much!

It is quite logical actually to assume that a man dressed as a woman would seek a man, even though we have many threads here where people state that is not always true.

It is an assumption(perhaps incorrect) but it may also have been a very genuine question...or it could be the class jerk and you just hate him?

[Jessy]

Crossdressers being homosexual is a common misunderstanding. It's possible of course, but the majority is heterosexual according to statistics.

[ReineD]

What about all the crossdressers who are not only married but have very strong preference for sexual relations with women?
Why is it that if you wear women's clothing you have to be gay?
What is your take on this?

Have you seen the Crossdressing and dating guys (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122184) thread?

It is one of our largest threads. So far there are 257 responses and the majority say there is an interest in men, whether it is just dating, or they like to fantasize about it, or they would or have gone all the way, even if only while dressed. I counted the results quickly last January and there were only 25% of the respondents who said they were strictly interested in GGs.

The thread has had over 16,000 hits, which does indicate a very strong interest in the subject matter.

I wouldn't refer to an interest in men as being gay though. :2c: The term is offensive to our homosexual members. And I'm sure that the TGs who do express an interest do not identify as men when they say this, so to them it is not a same-sex attraction.

[Barbara Dugan]

Honestly I have no idea :doh: but is not that difficult either

[Ms. Emily]

It seemed like his experience of the world was rather limited if that is what he "knows" about crossdressers.
What about all the crossdressers who are not only married but have very strong preference for sexual relations with women?
Why is it that if you wear women's clothing you have to be gay?
What is your take on this?

It doesn't surprise me. I wouldn't say knowing the ins and outs of CD'ing is exactly common knowledge at all. He's probably just going off what he sees on tv.

[Blaire]

To answer the title... easily, if all you want is sex.

As for the quick assumption that CDs are gay? To the average person, gender identity and sexual identity are synonymous. Your same average person understands gay but not TG issues, and people tend to divide things strictly into categories that they understand. That same person may only have two boxes to put things in: normal and not normal. So, if CD = sex = not normal, you're gay.

The logic is thick to swallow, but it's the tools "people" have to play with.

[Annaliese2010]

...What about all the crossdressers who are not only married but have very strong preference for sexual relations with women? ... What is your take on this?

I've never been attracted to men and could never be intimate with a man. I've ALWAYS been into women whether bi, straight, or lez. I have a definite female side that was allowed to evolve and self-define, and in whom I believe I can pretty much self-submerge and take a back-seat to, so to speak, when she is "needed" to sort of take over? This kind of transitioning from M2F self identification, behavior and expression, IMO, goes beyond simple CD'ing, such as guys who dress for other reasons but do not act think or feel feminine inside and in fact, maintain their essential male psychology, unchanged. And while I'm def not like so many here who have a decidedly, ever present inner female essence and impulse or to express themselves as such constantly, I believe the way I've becomne has a certain level of legitimacy in so far as I am able to truly submerge myself into and express the female side of me, even though it wasn't present at birth.

For awhile I thought I could be intimate with a M2F TG who has a truly internal feminine self-identity that is at least equal to mine, or beyond... but lately I'm not so sure. Christ... IDK what I'm trying to do anymore. Escape an impossible situation maybe, by being reactionary to the extreme? I think so. And if so, all this is likely a temporary thing, though as I say, still legitimate wrt to the effort I put into it, which includes a sort of... willed phase-transition from my male to female persona, the latter developed by drawing on those nascent emotional/physical traits already present that have a female character, amplifying them and allowing them to evolve, thus to "create" Annaliese. Sounds contrived and it is, but I feel in a way that is sincere, serious-minded and successful by it's end effect which includes an entirely different set of perceptions, feeling and thinking states, and behaviors that are not forced or themselves contrived, but natural and spontaneous.

But attracted to men? Nah uh, not me. To the degree Annaliese (who I am NOT, at the moment i.e. who is "asleep", so to speak) is real and to the extent she approximates a truly female being (when awake in me, in control and expressing), I guess that would make me a TG-lez, but not TG-bi, because I have no desire to be intimate with a man (and am rather repulsed by the thought - not that there's anything 'wrong' with those who do date men, that's just not me).

(Jesus, someone shoot me... wtf am I fc'n doing... Lol...)

[Joann0830]

Did You Ever hear the expression its either Black or White, In my Psych class we had this same discussion a while ago. Its the people who do not look in between Black and White and fail to see that Grey area. Its how they look at us, either straight or gay. I once wrote a paper regarding who determines what is female or male clothing. look at history back in Continental times. They wore powdered wigs Silk Clothing stockings and ruffled shirts makeup from cornsilk and dont forget the shoes with heels, and they wore their hair long and wore earrings. This continued throught the revolutionary times except no wigs just there hair long and the clothes were the same. In the 60s men wore there hair long, earrings and hip huggers and silk and colorful clothing and shoes with heels. Woman wore their dads shirts rolled up jeans and tee shirts. Now woman, girls where Men swork boots roll down mens boxers, tee shirts. The point is it is the individual who believes that if you where a dress or earings you gay, and if a woman is walking arm in arm with another woman she is gay. It has always been the individual and how they perceive what they believe is male and female. My teacher use to say some individuals believe in the fact that male should dress as Males and females the same. He also stated that males especially are Very threatend by the factor of someone like myself enjoying the comfort and style of womans clothing and they way they present themselves with the hair and makeup. My professor just recentl had contacted me and stated he laughs because he sees the Macho Boys and Men getting their Eyes waxed and wearing two earings and a manicure and pedicure. He stated to me that the circle of life is coming around to that of Continental times. He states that men can be attracted to other Men because its the inner feminine side of a male coming out. Its just in this time now Men are letting their female innerself come out.
But there are many that feel that if they do let it out that they are no longer Masculine. By the way this was in my Criminal Justice Course, A great Professor. I am sorry that this was lengthy. Joann0830:drink::drink::heehee:

[Hope]

It is quite simple really...

If it walks like a goose, and it honks like a goose, it probably wants to have sex with a gander.

Here is a better question: why get so worked up about it? Who cares if people think we are gay? People have thought I was gay for most of my life - such is the effeminate life. What is so unspeakably horrible about being gay that so many people work so hard to not be mistaken for, or associated, in any way, with gay people? Hrm?

[Blaire]

I don't really get it either myself Hope, but I suspect that there are tons of guys that are in self-denial about being gay or bi, and see CD's as a way to get that "gay itch" filled without crossing some line in their heads.

In corollary, I suspect that there are quite a few CD's that use "presenting as a woman" as an excuse to keep using the word "straight" regarding themselves.

[vetobob9]

I did not mean to imply there was anything wrong with being gay. I just found it ignorant that people would assume that all male cross dressers would be gay.

[lee in a skirt]

These are purely just people opinions. The individual in question clearly has no insight into the area of crossdressing/transvestism and transexuality.

We are all different due to free will and therefore we all are interested in different things and do different things. This applies in both this forum and in the outside world. Look at how the people here express themselves. For example some people dress everyday some want to turn, some just do occasionly, some earn money from it, some are only attracted to females, some are attracted to males some both. On top of this we also struggle to understand why the other groups on this site like what they do.

With this in mind it is clear that if we dont actually understand ourselves how do we expect people who have not come across the subject before to understand us.

Not everyone is educated and if someone makes an uneducated comment about it you have to choices.
1 Ignore them and let them stay uneducated.
2 Educate them and risk outing yourself, which may backfire as they may not be able to be educated.

hope this helps

[Annaliese2010]

...Its the people who do not look in between Black and White and fail to see that Grey area...

It's easier to view the world in terms of black and white with you at its center. When all the answers to all the questions are served to you neatly packaged with no loose ends you don't have to think for yourself, as for instance, when you subscribe to a political ideology and/or religious belief system, rely on the views of some celebrity or the idiot host of a national talk-radio program. That way you don't have to be bothered don't have to work, be worried or concerned about much of anything. It's human nature I guess... to be lazy & stupid? At least here in the U.S. and I suppose everywhere, actually.


...and if a woman is walking arm in arm with another woman she is gay... It has always been the individual and how they perceive... ...and maybe the culture you were brought up in. For instance, when I was on a 3 month job assignment in the (far northeast) Veneto Region of Italy, it was not uncommon to see two women side by side holding both each others hands as they strolled down the cobblestone streets talking and laughing most naturally. At first I was like...wow is that weird. Then after a second or two I thought...aw that's nice.


Its just in this time now Men are letting their female innerself come out...I agree and think it's partly due to the fact that more and more women are assuming the positions of power and authority in business and government that were, for a very long time assumed only by men, by default. A de-emphasis of those more decidedly (or extreme) male behavioral traits that shaped modern civilization is underway simply because they are no longer necessary and often get in the way of what one might describe as a new 21st Century World View or ethic, which emphasizes mutual interest, cooperativity and shared progress for the greater good.


But there are many that feel that if they do let it out that they are no longer Masculine. Maybe for a very good reason. I think most GG (FAB) women want their men to be men, in the traditional way. And while they may be 'accepting' (show tolerance) of transgendered males, they would never consider them 'acceptable' mates. Also... Most males probably consider two bi-females or lesbians being intimate with each other a very hot thing, and if they could, would jump right in! Most women probably feel just the opposite about bi-males or gays. I think it's a genetic thing.

[sherri52]

Unfortunately because of all the porn sites the crossdressers are portrayed as homosexuals. The world doesn't care to know about the rest of us. They are not willing to check out the facts

[Annaliese2010]

I don't really get it either myself Hope, but I suspect that there are tons of guys that are in self-denial about being gay or bi....Maybe tons, some or in my case... the more I think about it, close to none. My sex drive's long; rockets high in the sky, going going gone! But uhah no way... the more I think the more I'd say, there are just somethings I'd stay away, from doing, pursuing, starting or concluding. Or put it this way...IF I was high enough and fell into league, she'd have to be one mthrfcn hot-TG! Or a perfectly-perfect pretty-as-can-be TS. 'Cuz anything less would never pass the firmness "test". Lol... :o

[Pepper2783]

Well of course they would. Not all people understand what a cross dresser is. It's not like there is a panthlet. Or some sort of ask a transvestite/cross dresser.
Come on people don't know anything because we don't educate them on it.

[Byanca]

This could easily be turned around. If you identify as a woman and fall in love with a woman, this also make you homosexual.

It's actually quite silly to talk about TGs as either homosexual or heterosexual. Since we brake apart this system. The correct term may be pansexuals. We should be spared for these monkey like labels. Does not make no sense, to me at least.

[Tamasina]

Its just plain ignorance. I don't mean this in a bad way but how many non crossdressing men(other then admirers) come to this message board or share interest in crossdressing. I am sure not many if any. Everyone I have told close to me about Tina has asked the same thing. I too at first was upset again however if they are not one of us they don't know how we feel about ourselves in a sexual scents. I am also sure if you asked that student if he knew what a "GG" was he wouldn't know that either or the other terms we use. I would say if you feel comfortable let them know if not then you just have to grin and bare it. Just one other point I am sure that there are some of us who are Gay or Bi and if so theres nothing wrong with that either.
Tina1969

[christinek]

I am assuming this native american group was one of long ago? Does not matter really! The thought that those who identified with mother earth and saw everything with a purpose saw our situation and met it with acceptance and not shame as our european settlers have. To be Muche in our society would be awesome!

I too saw a video of some tribe in an asian part of the globe that had a similar situation in there tribe, sex was not a monogamous thing and it was performed away from the tribe. The women (either gender) went into the woods and the men soon pursued, if you identified as woman you were treated as one without bias. Same was done for the ladies, if you were to be a man, prove yourself and be accepted as a man.

The Anglo Saxon has not been so easily convinced. I identify as being lesbian/gay. As I do not prefer men and have no desire to be with a man, I do have homosexual tendencies but not with some hairy, muscular bohunk.

[eluuzion]

What the **** over?
I was in my anthropology class yesterday and they were talking about some native american group. In the film, a documentary, it turns out this tribe has 3 genders, male, female, and muche. The muche is anyone who is a crossdresser and anyone who is transgendered. Note, it sounds very much like they are combining the two types of people.


You might be referring to one of the early civilizations of Peru, the “Moche”. They are one of the earliest documentations of bizarre sexual practices ( same sex, etc.) being the “norm” .

The Moche civilization was a predominant culture located on the northern coast of Peru, around the time of Christ, just prior to the entrance of the Inca civilization taking over. They are noted for their anthropomorphic pottery, (giving human characteristics to animals, inanimate objects, and natural phenomena). Since the Moche had no written language, most of the knowledge of the Moche comes from these ceramics, (small clay human figurines which depicted a host of deviant and bizarre sexual practices. They were into ceremonial human sacrifice, necrophilia, and early forms of “transgender” activity (males raised with specific role of female appearance for sexual use by important males and priests. Hetero and same-sex anal intercourse (birth control strategy) was common, as were many other sexual kinks.

[michelle64]

not gay..in fact i hate guys (whatever there orientation is) and dont trust em at all......id rather sit with the girls and all my closest friends are females and always have been...even the office ladies come sit with me at lunch and tell me everything in there personal lives....why i dunno..even in school i had all the girls hang around me.....no guy has ever done this and personally i dont want any guy friends so its a non issue...yea..if i was a GG i would be a lesbian..i have no doubt...good thing i am a guy though...women are just so much damn fun to be with.....

[kellycan27]

Dress up and act like girls?

[Lorileah]

Honestly I have no idea :doh: but is not that difficult either

Yeah that. I had more offers for a date when I first went on line than I had my whole life before and I didn't have a picture!

Two-spirit persons were revered by almost every tribe known. It did not discern their sexuality just as it doesn't now. But in those tribes they didn't automatically assume that gender and sexuality were linked. Often the two-spirit person had a major role in medicine and traditional pageantry. They were sometimes considered more attuned to the earth.

As has been discussed in about a million threads here,more often than not what you wear doesn't effect who you are attracted to. But being the offspring of people who come from a culture where "sin" is the major part of the soul we had to instill a bias and that bias continues today. We allow it to perpetuate because it is easier to let thing slide than to confront them.

So Bob did you attempt to, at the time this person made such uneducated remarks because if you don't correct a behavior at the time it occurs the trainee may not understand what you are trying to do, explain that clothes don't make a man? That just because someone wears blue tights and a cape doesn't mean they can fly. Or if a person wears surgical scrubs they can do brain surgery. That getting in college doesn't mean you are intelligent. How what is between your ears is much more important to who you are than what is between your legs? Would have been an excellent opportunity. Of course I imagine his response would have been "So dude, are you like gay or what?" and the moment would have been lost

[Paige Philips]

Lots of neat answers here, but Kellycan27's is the best (and the briefest). I would just add, "by looking, acting and being sexier than 90% of the women around." There are quite a few CDs (not necessarily me) who would say that's pretty easy.

[ReineD]

I would just add, "by looking, acting and being sexier than 90% of the women around."

This is wishful thinking.

Admirers are attracted to CDs specifically because the CDs are not GGs. GGs don't have that extra bit that admirers look for.

[Shelly Preston]

Placing an advert in the right place can get you the partner you want



I would just add, "by looking, acting and being sexier than 90% of the women around." There are quite a few CDs (not necessarily me) who would say that's pretty easy.

I was going to comment but its not worth the effort :brolleyes:

[Sheila]

I would just add, "by looking, acting and being sexier than 90% of the women around." There are quite a few CDs (not necessarily me) who would say that's pretty easy.

:eek:Way to go to offend most of the GG's on here ............ nice one, NOT, and some CDER's wonder why some GG's don't wanna know :brolleyes::brolleyes:

[willowgurl]

I just show off my legs, works nearly every time. Willow

[lavistaa62]

When asked about being gay- by a gay guy actually who prefixed the question with "I never would have guessed". I asked, since he was Asian, if I wore a kimono would he have assumed I was Japanese or dressed up like Jesus that I'm a Christian?

The first, rather poor, analogy just popped into my head as a smart-a** thing to say but while I was saying it the second bit occurred to me. Most people would I think, assume I a person dressed as Jesus was Christian though ironically of course he was Jewish.

The second analogy hit home with him since he knew my family was Jewish and my appearing dressed in a Jesus costume wouldn't have caused him to second guess this. I didn't hold the assumption against him but used it as a teaching moment.

[Amymonroe]

What the **** over?
I was in my anthropology class yesterday and they were talking about some native american group. In the film, a documentary, it turns out this tribe has 3 genders, male, female, and muche. The muche is anyone who is a crossdresser and anyone who is transgendered. Note, it sounds very much like they are combining the two types of people.
During the discussion a young male student asked, "how do crossdressers attract their male sex partners if they aren't really women?" What the ****. He's assuming that just because a guy is wearing a dress that means he is gay. On the flip side some people think that if you wear women's clothing it automatically means you want to change your physical sex. It seemed like his experience of the world was rather limited if that is what he "knows" about crossdressers.
What about all the crossdressers who are not only married but have very strong preference for sexual relations with women?
Why is it that if you wear women's clothing you have to be gay?
What is your take on this?

i think you should take the time and educate the person in question!

amy

[victoriamwilliams1]

I think that people have been watching too much Jerry Springer!

The attraction variations is way to many to post also I never heard of that term! I have heard of 2 Spirit for Native Americans.