NC T-Girls Beware !

[Michelle-Leigh]

Attention, North Carolina Girls ! In preparation for my next outings, I took the trouble to contact the District Attorney's office regarding the legality of male-to-female crossdressers' use of women's restrooms. The information I received was very disquieting, as I confirmed that it is illegal for a person having male genitalia to enter a women's restroom in the state of North Carolina. Therefore, it is very important for us to carefully plan our outings to ensure that rest stops will be only made at places having unisex restrooms. Even with my passability and high confidence on outings, I am not willing to risk prosecution for breaking that law.....

[Staci G]

Thats a good reason to carry a urinal like in the hospitals with you here in NC. I have not run into the situation yet.I am sure it is bound to happen tho.
I am kinda taken aback though, I live in Asheville,NC and this is a very TG friendly area. There is a place called Tressa's uptown that is very welcoming of TG af any faith (CD,TS,TG,DQ) what ever. So all of you that say NC is off the list to vist I say Ya'll come now ya hear. you can stop by my place if you have to potty that bad.

[Sherry-Stephanie]

Glad to see "good old red neck", "billy bob" mentality is alive and well "somewhere"!!!! and oh why not..."Bubba breath" as well....

Like they haven't got enough to do on "important" things!!!!

[TNRobin]

I wonder if "Pink Fog" is a legal defense?!:D

[pamela_a]

That's very interesting. So what they're saying is only post-op transsexuals are allowed in the gender correct restrooms?

I wonder who is doing the "inspections"

[kym]

it may be time for us nc girls to contact our reps in the capital and show them how many of us there really are and how dangerous it would be for us to be in a MENS room in a DRESS with bubba. this is ridiculous in this day and age.

[JulieC]

I'd like to see the state law from North Carolina that stipulates that.

[cdsara88]

Just make your stops at gay bars? ..that's half a joke.

I imagine this is the law everywhere isn't it? Frankly I don't want "bubba" putting on a dress and thinking that's an excuse for him to go into the ladies room at the mall or anywhere else you know? They have to draw the line somewhere, and if that line is at having a penis, so be it. :) From a philosophical point of view, my rights to use the facilities end where it infringes on someone else's rights, which would probably *wink* include the women in the restroom, regardless of how comfortable or confident *I* am.

[Teri Jean]

Now there is a state job that keeps on p@#ing. Now I am sure there will be those who would like that gig but really people, when is society going to ever grow up.

Teri

[victoriamwilliams1]

Now that is dangerous! So what NC is saying is that if you get beat up in the mens room while dressed you deserve it! So what is the law for F2M's if it is the same the women of NC will be mad when they see a pre-op male in the ladies room!

It is obvious that post-ops are protected unless they define a women and a male as a person having all the birth equiptment! I guess they will install body scanners in the ladies room!

My resolve is the following.. If you have the money get yourself a nice vstring and if they ask just show them!

I guess it's time for a rally in NC!

[kym]

I imagine this is the law everywhere isn't it? Frankly I don't want "bubba" putting on a dress and thinking that's an excuse for him to go into the ladies room at the mall or anywhere else you know?
its not really an issue of "bubba" putting on a dress and entering the womens rest room as much as its a sister being forced by the law to enter the mens room in a dress and having bubba think that its ok to beat the living crap out of"that queer" because "it just ain't right" or"its against gods will" that concerns me, If i am wearing a dress and I am presenting as a female on the outside then it would only make sense for me to enter the ladies room to relieve myself.


my thoughts exactly victoria, I am in the process of contacting the ACLU on this matter and possibly organizing a rally on our great state capital.

[tiffanyjo89]

There are plenty of laws that exist, but aren't enforced.

But I did see a TV show where a woman was caught having sex in the mens restroom. Both parties were given a ticket for something along the lines of public indecency and the woman was given a ticket for being in the wrong restroom.

I think that laws like that are skewed to be used against trans people, but are actually meant to protect everyone. They are also meant to uphold decency, to keep someone from having sex in the restrooms and other purposes.

[SuzanneBender]

I wonder if they will cut us any slack for p**ing in a Gatoraide bottle next to the woman's restroom. Sorry that is not very lady like but its the best I could come up with.

I guess there will be no traveling to NC for Suzanne.

I wonder if they have ever stopped to think about the fact that they wouldn't have anything to put on their license plates if one of the Wright Brothers had been TG.

[MJ]

the District Attorney's office regarding the legality of male-to-female crossdressers' use of women's restrooms. The information I received was very disquieting, as I confirmed that it is illegal for a person having male genitalia to enter a women's restroom in the state of North Carolina. .....


well i would like to see the Prof in writing myself. North Carolina not the place to visit i'm sure there are many places like that

[AmberLynn]

I think if there going to impose a law like that then there should also be a law forcing est. to have 3 restroom's one male,one female,and one unisex/handicap. I know at are 3 local casions that's how it is set up and i have seen a few girls use the third option that's just my :2c:

[sherri52]

We'll have to start making our stops before and after NC

[kym]

I think if there going to impose a law like that then there should also be a law forcing est. to have 3 restroom's one male,one female,and one unisex/handicap. I know at are 3 local casions that's how it is set up and i have seen a few girls use the third option that's just my :2c:

Amber, that is a well thought out solution that would work, now lets see if the lawmakers in this state would be willing to enact it.

[JulieC]

I've been searching through North Carolina General Statutes and can find no mention of any law that even remotely is connected to the use of restrooms by anyone, much less transgendered people.

See for yourself.
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/gascripts/Statutes/StatutesTOC.pl

That's not to say there IS no law. But, I still want to see some proof that there is a law forbidding men from using women's restrooms or vice versa (whatever definition of 'man' and 'woman' they want to use).

[LynnInDenver]

That's not to say there IS no law. But, I still want to see some proof that there is a law forbidding men from using women's restrooms or vice versa (whatever definition of 'man' and 'woman' they want to use).

True. But it's also possible that an official would say 'bad idea' if there's no explicit law on the books saying it's okay. If only because there's no protection for one of us if someone else takes offense to us being in the bathroom of our presented gender. :doh:

[Michelle-Leigh]

well i would like to see the Prof in writing myself. North Carolina not the place to visit i'm sure there are many places like that

As the info I got on this was verbal, I have contacted an attorney so that I get this double-verified and find out what penalties apply as well. When I do get further proof, I will share it with the forum.

[Debra Jane]

We must be so much more relaxed on this side of the pond. Women (GG's) here will use the Mens room if the queue to the Ladies room is too long, usually at the track on big race days or at concert venues and usually only where alcohol is involved. It is almost an unwritten rule and no one bats an eyelid, in the mens room women line up for the stalls and the guy's line up for the urinal. I have never seen any misbehaviour and I guess there is safety in numbers for the girls.

[Michelle-Leigh]

I've been searching through North Carolina General Statutes and can find no mention of any law that even remotely is connected to the use of restrooms by anyone, much less transgendered people.

See for yourself.
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/gascripts/Statutes/StatutesTOC.pl

That's not to say there IS no law. But, I still want to see some proof that there is a law forbidding men from using women's restrooms or vice versa (whatever definition of 'man' and 'woman' they want to use).

I had also done the very same thing, Julie, with no results. But you cannot trust searches on the internet, with their historic unreliability. That is why I have contacted a lawyer for further verification of this. I feel sure that it is only a trifling obscure little law of which hardly anyone knows, and if it is, I will simply resume my use of those restrooms with my pepperspray close at hand and my feet and legs prepared to run at a moment's notice....

[CatAttack]

Being one who lives in NC I would really like to know if you all come up with anything in print. The law seems weird to me. How would they know? It's not like they have restroom law enforcement haha. I guess if somehow a woman found out and was offended and decided to report..

[JessicaMiller]

This is very interesting to know. As i travel through NC for vacay most of the time. I wonder now if my state has a similar law? I've always just used the women's room, and never had any backlash from it. Now i may have 2nd thoughts.

[Loni]

can anyone post up the state code showing what is said??

most states have indecency laws...but not gender use of bathroom laws.

just remember to not let the old biddy look through the crack in the door frame. :eek:


.

[jenifer m.]

good reason to stay out of north carolina,but then agen i never go out dressed in full fem any more.so no worry for me.i do love the mountains there though.

[suit]

The information I received was very disquieting, as I confirmed that it is illegal for a person having male genitalia to enter a women's restroom in the state of North Carolina.

what about plumbers?
they must have girl plumbers for girl bathrooms? cool!

[Michelle-Leigh]

The information I received was very disquieting, as I confirmed that it is illegal for a person having male genitalia to enter a women's restroom in the state of North Carolina.

what about plumbers?
they must have girl plumbers for girl bathrooms? cool!

Very amusing, but, elucidating the obvious, this law would of course exclude those men involved in the maintenance and cleaning of the restrooms. When I worked in a restaurant, I simply knocked on the door and ensured that the room was not in use prior to going in to clean it. Whenever a lady came in needing to use the room, I would simply exit and wait for her to come back out, then re-enter to resume my cleaning.

[Jenny Doolittle]

Michelle,

The law that the AG may refer is a vague catch all type law that is much like say an action that would apply in a "Disorderly Conduct" statute here in Ohio. It may not state: persons with male genitalia may not use a restroom marked specifically for female gender.

No one mentioned it, But doesn't NC have "Family restrooms" I am sure a person presenting in any gender's dress should be allowed in that type room.

[Michelle-Leigh]

Michelle,

The law that the AG may refer is a vague catch all type law that is much like say an action that would apply in a "Disorderly Conduct" statute here in Ohio. It may not state: persons with male genitalia may not use a restroom marked specifically for female gender.

No one mentioned it, But doesn't NC have "Family restrooms" I am sure a person presenting in any gender's dress should be allowed in that type room.

Unfortunately, family restrooms are still a rarity in most places here. The only place I have seen them so far have been rest areas on the interstates. And I merely paraphrased the law in my original post to show clearly that it would not apply to post-op transsexuals. I hope that it is only a trifling little law like the seat belt laws so that I may flout it as I please !

[Paula Siemen]

That's very interesting. So what they're saying is only post-op transsexuals are allowed in the gender correct restrooms?

I wonder who is doing the "inspections"

Bubba Cop...cause really.......He gets off on checking out other guys whanggies. Look, but DON"T TOUCH!!!

[linnea]

You're right Michelle. Before I visited NC a few weeks ago, I checked too and found the same thing. I also checked other states; currently, from what I found, there are only about a dozen states that specifically allow people to use the restroom of the gender that they are presenting. Washington, Oregon, and California are three of these, but there are others in other areas of the United States.

[Midnight Skye]

Thanks Michelle... but @#$%#@$%. This jars my senses... I live in NC and am out frequently as female (more and more every day). I rarely pee anywhere other than at home and work... but this is just dandy. This begs many questions as I'm peering over at full time... but have no intentions of getting my lower parts adjusted.

I may need to call down there and get some answers... I'm a real b#tch on the phone and tend to get my way lol. I've looked into quite a few things in NC and the general result is simple. There aren't any laws I know of which directly confront Transgendered people. BUT... from what I can tell NC police and dirty officials still point everything back to the NC Sodomy law:
http://www.sodomy.org/laws/northcarolina/

This is where things get bad, because NC still has a sodomy law in place... they can essentially claim we're wrong in ANY way when we step over their comfort zone. So... if they wanted to prosecute you for peeing in the bathroom... they could... but some serious questions come up when this law is called into play. A case out here a few years back was struck down when they tried to apply the law to two gay men have a domestic despute.

The good news is http://equalitync.org/leg/09 is currently showing there is House Bill 100: Conform State Law to Lawrence v. Texas. This bill would strike down all sodomy laws in all states, to match the supreme court ruling in Texas. If this does pass... those of us in NC will be able to breath a little easier.

The good news for peeing though. There are quite a few transgendered folks out in northern NC who don't pass at all and I haven't come across a single case of prosecution for peeing in a womans restroom. From my experience down here... the police are generally swamped with much more pressing issues.

[sterling12]

Oh God, am I in trouble! If John stops off at 7/11, and The Men's Room is occupied, I'll just use The Lady's Restroom and put the Seat back down when I'm done. Course' those are bathrooms that are usually only used by ONE Occupant at a time....who would have known?

I'm a little lost with a NC "State" Law. Usually, these "Bathroom Laws" are local ordinances, and they usually are set up to give Trans People The Right to use a bathroom which matches up with their outer appearance. I don't think I've ever heard of a specific statute that says "Thou shall not." I think your Public Servant was blowing a lot of smoke up where The Sun don't shine!

But for The Time Being, avoid Public Restrooms! What a pity, we were thinking about having a huge Trans-Convention in Charlotte. But, if this story be true....guess we ain't welcome! We will just have to take our dollars else where.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Billijo49504]

Well I guess if you didn't wear panties, you could just let it happen:D..BJ

[kymmieLorain]

Well if the law states that males are forbidden from entering the womans restroom. What about the male janitors and plumbers? looks like the womans restrooms in NC will be discusting. LOL

Kymmie

[victoriamwilliams1]

....I found, there are only about a dozen states that specifically allow people to use the restroom of the gender that they are presenting. Washington, Oregon, and California are three of these, but there are others in other areas of the United States.

This ia an intresting and I could we have the other states?


.... BUT... from what I can tell NC police and dirty officials still point everything back to the NC Sodomy law:
http://www.sodomy.org/laws/northcarolina/

This is where things get bad, because NC still has a sodomy law in place... they can essentially claim we're wrong in ANY way when we step over their comfort zone. So... if they wanted to prosecute you for peeing in the bathroom... they could... but some serious questions come up when this law is called into play. A case out here a few years back was struck down when they tried to apply the law to two gay men have a domestic despute.


Every government has the crooked!

Sodomy laws still in effect! now those are old laws like the one in Michigan that sent a guy to jail for cusing in front of a woman and child!

In a quick summery I can say that :

1. If you are using the restroom in the gender you are presenting just use it and get out!

2. Most enforcement comes when you are in areas that are in malls where security can be called out to hold you until the police comes and in many cases not the mall security is the police authority.

3. Most business try to say that this is "Private Property" and they can set the rules which in fact they can when it come to the employees but not to the public who visits the business.

4. Use wisdom and if you must go if a unisex restroom exist use that one or if it is a single stall restroom it does not matter what room you use. I have been to places where the mens room or the ladies room broke down and everyone had to use the same one. Restrooms are also controlled by many city codes who say how many men to women restrooms must be set and some cities have a 2:1 2 womens rooms for every 1 mens room and that is in most sports venues.

[Melinda G]

Now that is dangerous! So what NC is saying is that if you get beat up in the mens room while dressed you deserve it!
No. They are saying males are not allowed in female restrooms.
Like it or not, many, if not most states have similar laws about men using womens restrooms. Can't tell you if it's enforced or not, but you never know when some overzealous cop or prosecutor might decide to make an example of you.
I have used womens toilets a couple times, not because I was en femme, but because I had to go bad, and the mens room was in use.
I don't think a small single toilet ladies room would be a problem, if you lock the door. But if there are several stalls, and a woman or two in there, you are asking for trouble.

[Rachel_Red]

Glad to see "good old red neck", "billy bob" mentality is alive and well "somewhere"!!!! and oh why not..."Bubba breath" as well....

Like they haven't got enough to do on "important" things!!!!

Seriously... that is what they make laws about out there!? Who can use the bathroom. I wonder if a mother takes in her 2 year old sun if they'll send him to jail. Honestly if you look like a woman, act like a woman, then in a way you are. What is between your legs is a VERY private thing.

On the bright side I can't see myself going there anytime soon. :doh:

[Jenny Doolittle]

Until state legislatures find out that crossdressers and transgendered women are NOT the perverts that Jerry Falwell would have you believe we all must use common since in the restroom.

I know when I am out, and North Carolina has been one state that I have gone (no pun intended) I will search out a restroom that only is used by one woman at a time. I lock the door like most of us would , do my business and leave. I don't use the room like a peep closet at some sleazy bookstore.

The complaints that arise are when a presenting girl is in a restroom with other woman. Don't put yourself in a bad position,

[msginaadoll]

Very interesting post. However.... playing the devils advocate. Does anyone know of a single occasion where a crossdresser/transgendered person was atacked or abused because they used the restroom of their male gender. This is always tossed out- what if bubba gets upset whatever. Isnt it just as likely that a female gets upset, especially if you are not totally passible. If a male gets upset with you at least you have a lawsuit.

[Veronica Nowakowski]

I had always known for that to be the law everywhere. However, I have had people stress to me that the risk of being beaten up or raped is a legal defense (alas they weren't lawyers). If you're not causing a stir, i don't think you'll have an issue. Sit when using and don't make anything that makes you clearly a male.

[Michelle-Leigh]

Until state legislatures find out that crossdressers and transgendered women are NOT the perverts that Jerry Falwell would have you believe we all must use common since in the restroom.

Concurrent to this is the problem that most genetic women are very bashful regarding use of public restrooms as it is, and would be horrified at the prospect having a male TV or TG in the restroom with them. I know for a fact that my wife is one such woman ! Unless they get over their squeamishness, there will be no hope of any legislative advancements in our favor.

[Tamara Croft]

Concurrent to this is the problem that most genetic women are very bashful regarding use of public restrooms as it is,You'll find most women actually couldn't care less who's in their bathroom and the majority don't even pay attention either. If your wife is 'one of them' as you say, then this is about her, don't drag the rest of the GG's into it :thumbsdn:

[Karen564]

Very interesting post. However.... playing the devils advocate. Does anyone know of a single occasion where a crossdresser/transgendered person was atacked or abused because they used the restroom of their male gender. This is always tossed out- what if bubba gets upset whatever. Isnt it just as likely that a female gets upset, especially if you are not totally passible. If a male gets upset with you at least you have a lawsuit.

That's a very good point......I can't say that I ever heard of it happening....

And wouldn't there be a better chance of a womans husband getting rather irrate seeing a transgender going into the same bathroom as his wife......?

Maybe more peeps should be fighting for their rights to use the bathroom of their own gender without consequences if they have no intention of transitioning....
Anyone ever think of using the handicap restroom? it is unisex..right?and most every large public place has one now...right?
so....

Just saying, there are alternitives.....

:drink:

[Nicole Erin]

It is illegal only if you get caught.
Somehow I doubt they do genetalia checks at the restroom.

Just plan restroom visits carefully, like at gas stations where the door locks, single occupancy.

Thing is, if you are read and seen going to the femme restroom, if you are on your way out of the place, say someone calls the cops.
By the time the cops get there, you are gonna be down the road. Do you really think the cops are going to put an APB out on you over using a restroom? Cops could care less unless it is something serious or they catch you dead in the act.

I know people are imagining some full blown investigation of the tranny who used the femme room, but come on, no one cares. Even if you are borderline passable, only the stupidest morons are gonna call the cops and say, "I think it was a man in a dress and he used the woman restroom. Wait a sec - if we are talking Billy Bob, Cleetus, Ichabod, or Mary Lou, there just might be a prob. Even if they did, the cops cannot understand them saying "I deed see a man in a dress and he went down yonder and I tink he done pottied where ladies go..."

Go do your business.

[Veronica Nowakowski]

Anyone ever think of using the handicap restroom? it is unisex..right?and most every large public place has one now...right?
so....

I don't think I know of a place off hand that has one of those. I know I've seen them before, somewhere, but they're rare around here. I know I had two jobs with unisex bathrooms, and when I went to a gay bar I was curious how they would do that given that if you put all the men and all the women in separate rooms that would defeat the purpose.... they have unisex.

Most places I have been to, large places especially (small places may have only one bathroom), have only mens and womens rooms.

[kellycan27]

I have to agree with Karen..People are always clamouring about their rights, but seem afraid to fight for their most basic ones. The right to use he restroom of their gender without fear.

[sterling12]

Concurrent to this is the problem that most genetic women are very bashful regarding use of public restrooms as it is, and would be horrified at the prospect having a male TV or TG in the restroom with them. I know for a fact that my wife is one such woman ! Unless they get over their squeamishness, there will be no hope of any legislative advancements in our favor.

And The Problem with that kind of Statement is that about fifty years ago these "squeamish women," also said the same thing about sharing a Restroom with a Black Woman!

They got over their "hang-ups" on that issue, I imagine that most of them can do the same for Trans People. Whenever somebody raises The Specter of "Custom," or "what used to be," I am not impressed. People can "grow up." People can change!

Peace and Love, Joanie

[kellycan27]

And The Problem with that kind of Statement is that about fifty years ago these "squeamish women," also said the same thing about sharing a Restroom with a Black Woman!

I don't see the logic to your analogy.. a black woman was still a "woman" A man in a dress is still a man.

[eluuzion]

I posted this before somewhere, probably worth posting again...always comes in handy. North Carolina is a great place to buy furniture and cigarettes, but TG issues are not exactly at the top of the priority list. (as you can see from their lack of representation in the following links...

States with Restroom Laws
http://www.hrc.org/issues/workplace/equal_opportunity/9602.htm

Transgender Laws for each State
http://www.hrc.org/issues/transgender/transgender_laws.asp

Transgender Legislation for each State
http://www.hrc.org/issues/transgender/transgender_legislation.asp

Transgender Law and Policy Institute
http://www.transgenderlaw.org/

[Veronica Nowakowski]

I don't see the logic to your analogy.. a black woman was still a "woman" A man in a dress is still a man.

I believe the analogy was that they considered black women as below them and they consider us also below them. We're more than a man in a dress, because we identify with the dress, and in time they may come to accept us as well. Certainly, if they don't have separate bathrooms for lesbians, then any "sexual predator" BS doesn't hold water. A lesbian is just as likely to be a sexual predator as a sincere crossdresser or pre-op TS.

[Tamara Croft]

Anyone ever think of using the handicap restroom?Since when is crossdressing a handicap? Those toilets are made for handicapped people, not for people who don't need them!

[kellycan27]

I believe the analogy was that they considered black women as below them and they consider us also below them. We're more than a man in a dress, because we identify with the dress, and in time they may come to accept us as well. Certainly, if they don't have separate bathrooms for lesbians, then any "sexual predator" BS doesn't hold water. A lesbian is just as likely to be a sexual predator as a sincere crossdresser or pre-op TS.


So you are saying that females see males as below them? I see a ton of posts from cder's that say they just like the clothes but still identify with their males selves, and don't want to be or considered to be a woman.. rather just a guy who likes wears the clothing. These men don't identify with the clothing.. they just like to wear them.

[Veronica Nowakowski]

They see non-biological females as below them. Now as for the people who just like the clothes, they don't go out en femme. There are bigendered and transgendered people who do.

[sterling12]

First thing...thank you Veronica for trying to defend what I wrote.

Now, to address Kelly's rebuttal. Sorry if you don't understand The Analogy. I suggest you spend a little time reviewing the History of The Civil Rights Movement.

Back then, we had Segregated Restrooms all through The South. For Men AND Women.

White Persons had justifications for their status-quo. Just some of them included thoughts like: "I can't use that bathroom with Black Women(or Men) because everybody knows they are promiscuous, and are just full of venereal diseases." Today, if you listen to these people that raise a ruckus about Trans Folks using The Restroom, they will say: "I don't want to use that bathroom with those Transvestites, everybody KNOWS that their queer, and are just loaded with Aids!"

In The Past, They also said: "I don't want those black people in there with my kids!" "Everybody knows they are all criminals, and my kid would be assaulted." Today, they say: "Everybody knows all those guys in women's clothes are perverts, they will molest my kid!"

I could go on and on with these accusations, but I will assume you get The Idea. And, if you doubt their truth, ask any person of color who lived through The Era...they can tell you all about it!

My Point, when I wrote about this? The Arguments back then were ridiculous! People were forced to change because of Laws that stopped The Discrimination. Today, I doubt that even in The Deep South, you could find anyone but a racist-nut, who would believe in such nonsense.

One day, when we get some Rights, in North Carolina and elsewhere; the same silly fables about what we are, will come to an end. Kelly, you don't see The Parallels? Sorry for you! I don't think your looking for them.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[JulieC]

The information I received was very disquieting, as I confirmed that it is illegal for a person having male genitalia to enter a women's restroom in the state of North Carolina.

Confirmed how? I still want to see this law.

And what about people who aren't entirely biologically female or male? I guess they're breaking the law all the time?



from what I found, there are only about a dozen states that specifically allow people to use the restroom of the gender that they are presenting.

I can't believe I'm hearing this from Americans. This is the land of the free. You don't need a law that specifically permits you to do something. If there isn't a law forbidding something, you are free to do it. I don't need the permission of law to stand on my lawn and admire the stars, yet there's no law telling me I can. I don't need the permission of law to move myself and my family to another state, yet there's no law telling me I can. Etc..etc..etc..

Now, there might be attempts to use a vague law in this specific case, but a good lawyer will get it tossed. That's not to say it's easy; it isn't, and it isn't cheap.

But, to sit at home in fear of the law because there is no specific law permitting you to do something? Come one. If that were the case, every one of us in the states would be breaking the law because there's no specific law (in most jurisdictions) permitting us to wear dresses.


Like it or not, many, if not most states have similar laws about men using womens restrooms.

Can you cite me ONE? (much less North Carolina?)

[Karen564]

Since when is crossdressing a handicap? Those toilets are made for handicapped people, not for people who don't need them!

True,
But it can be a handicap if an individual is unable to use either the womens or mens bathroom due to legal and/or social concerns..
It's an single occupancy restroom & it's not restricted for only persons in wheelchairs..

Just saying, it's an alternitive...

And I am aware that nobody polices the restrooms with a gender check at the door...But...

The legal/social problem with biological men using the womens bathroom poses the question of...is that man in a dress truly transgendered OR is that man that puts a dress on in that womens room only there for sexual fetish reasons or as a preditor..?

I know this may sound silly to you that thinks all are just innocent cders just doing their business and many are just that & harmless...

But what about those rotten apples?...

The legality of the situation comes in when something goes wrong, and lawsuits are filed against the establishment where the incident occurred because of the safety & security issues of it's patrons...and nobody likes getting sued...when the almighty dollar is at stake..

If Everyone were decent human beings that knew the difference between right & wrong, we wouldn't need any laws...but unfortunately that is not the case because of those few rotten apples in the world.... and then this would not be an issue..other than dealing with societies ethical & moral beliefs... which will always be a hard obstacle to overcome.

Myself being a transgendered woman knows the prejudices of society very well & have to deal with it in every aspect of my life every single day one way or another on many different levels..

Guess what I'm saying is, just because a man slips on a dress, does not automatically make him transgendered or entitle that person to womans rights or safe sanctuary.
Because that man could be a wolf in sheep's clothing....

I actually do have an solution to this whole dilemma but it would be too costly to implement.....But I'd love to hear your ideas that are realistic & can be accepted by society as a whole...

It would be so nice if life was much more simple, but it's not..
And yes, I am scared of the big bad wolf....

IDK....Maybe I'm just paranoid ...lol

Ok, bring it on....let me have it..and tell me I'm crazy...:tongueout

[kellycan27]

First thing...thank you Veronica for trying to defend what I wrote.

Now, to address Kelly's rebuttal. Sorry if you don't understand The Analogy. I suggest you spend a little time reviewing the History of The Civil Rights Movement.

Back then, we had Segregated Restrooms all through The South. For Men AND Women.

White Persons had justifications for their status-quo. Just some of them included thoughts like: "I can't use that bathroom with Black Women(or Men) because everybody knows they are promiscuous, and are just full of venereal diseases." Today, if you listen to these people that raise a ruckus about Trans Folks using The Restroom, they will say: "I don't want to use that bathroom with those Transvestites, everybody KNOWS that their queer, and are just loaded with Aids!"

In The Past, They also said: "I don't want those black people in there with my kids!" "Everybody knows they are all criminals, and my kid would be assaulted." Today, they say: "Everybody knows all those guys in women's clothes are perverts, they will molest my kid!"

I could go on and on with these accusations, but I will assume you get The Idea. And, if you doubt their truth, ask any person of color who lived through The Era...they can tell you all about it!

My Point, when I wrote about this? The Arguments back then were ridiculous! People were forced to change because of Laws that stopped The Discrimination. Today, I doubt that even in The Deep South, you could find anyone but a racist-nut, who would believe in such nonsense.

One day, when we get some Rights, in North Carolina and elsewhere; the same silly fables about what we are, will come to an end. Kelly, you don't see The Parallels? Sorry for you! I don't think your looking for them.

Peace and Love, Joanie

Sorry... I still say apples and oranges to your analogy. the civil rights movement was adopted to give blacks the same rights as the rest of us.. including the right to use the restroom of their birth gender without fear of discimination...A right that you have enjoyed for a long time. It didn't grant the the blacks "special" rights. In this case it gave the blacks the right to use the same restroom as the whites. It didn't give black men them the right to use the ladies room.
Don't be "sorry" for me. I am not afraid to exercise my civil rights, and I am not hiding in fear waiting for some magical law to be passed that gaurantees my safety and rids the world of discrimination.

[Michelle-Leigh]

You'll find most women actually couldn't care less who's in their bathroom and the majority don't even pay attention either. If your wife is 'one of them' as you say, then this is about her, don't drag the rest of the GG's into it :thumbsdn:

Why, thank you so much for that enlightenment, Tamara ! I had discussed this issue with another woman who knows me to be a CD, and she did tell me that she has no problem with someone like me using the womens' room, and does not think that anyone else should.

[DonnaT]

http://www.transgenderlaw.org/ndlaws/index.htm

[Miss Rachel]

Being a N.C. native I decided to ask a few questions of my own to a very good lawyer who happens to be a friend of the family.
Apparently the law is real that prevents a male from using a ladies restroom and vise versa. However if one of the restrooms is labeled "Out of Order" it is safe to assume the "In order" restroom can be used as a unisex facility (Keep an Out of Order tissue in your purse and a small roll of tape hehehe). She (the lawyer) also pointed out that this was an older law and she could not recall of any related cases to it in her 20+ years of practicing law.
ie: It is a misdemeanor offense to participate in oral sex within the state of N.C. (Old law and extremely hard to enforce)(I have broken it myself numerous times and have never been charged once :devil: )
Her advice was to use your better judgment... Avoid crowded areas where your alternative lifestyle may come into question, because if no one complains about it you have nothing to worry about.
Not sure if this helps anyone or just adds more to the confusion.

[Alice Torn]

You have to have the stealth of a secret agent, i imagine, to use a busy ladies' room, and, though some ggs won't complain, there will always some, who will be terrifie! I;d like to see a James Bond movie, with him crossdressed, and having to use ladies rooms!!! We saw the super bowl Audi commercial, with the "Green Police". Soon, it may be the "Latrine Police!" "Latrine police, they're coming your way!" Latrine police, they're makin you pay!"

[RachelPortugal]

That's very interesting. So what they're saying is only post-op transsexuals are allowed in the gender correct restrooms?

Does this also mean that mothers must send their young sons alone into the mens room? Can they change their baby boy's nappies/diapers without risk of prosecution?

[SexiBobbi]

Calm down. Lets think about this rationally for a minute. Even if there is a law in place, and someone is offended enough to call the police, unless you read War and Peace while you are in there, you will be long gone before the cops show up.
I promise you that a "guy wearing a dress using the ladies room" is no where near a high priority call. I mean how long have you waited for a cop after a car accident?
Most people don't give a damn. They would rather laugh and make a smartass comment than wait around to make a statement