HRT and Your Little Friend [Archive] - Crossdressers.com - #1 Community & Forum for Crossdressers, Family and Friends

Stephenie S

03-27-2010, 10:22 AM

I'd really, really prefer the natural breasts. I don't want the hard, fake ones. i do want the redistribution of fat without 50 scars all over my body and thousands of dollars.

I want all my options open. Why should HRT be off limits to me because I'm not interested in the legal sex change surgery? The more I know, the more informed of a decision I can make.

Dear Veronica,

It's not that hormone therapy is off limits to you. It's just that you have an unrealistic view of what hormone therapy will do for you.

Look, we ALL want lovely soft real breasts. Getting them through hormone therapy is a real crap shoot. You have heard us say time and time again YMMV. This is real. There is NO way of telling how much breast growth you will get on hormone therapy without actually DOING it. You MIGHT get NONE. You will most likely get SOME. Those who get breast growth similar to a natal female are few and far between. Almost EVERY transwoman I know (and I know quite a few) has eventually gotten breast augmentation.

And the redistribution of fat? Just the same. YMMV. Actually your millage WILL vary. Unless we are fat to begin with, most of us get little to no fat redistribution. Ya gotta have fat to have fat redistribution. This is not a tragedy, there are plenty of women out there with small butts and small hips. I'm one of them.

And honey, hormone therapy WILL effect your ability (AND YOUR DESIRE) to get and maintain an erection. Eventually it will effect your body's ability to produce viable sperm. If you desire to have a satisfying sexual relationship with another woman, you are NOT gonna be able to have penetrating intercourse with YOUR penis be a part of that relationship.

This is OK, you know. Thousands and thousands of lesbian women have wonderfully satisfying sexual relationships without a penis. If you are so dependent of the proper functioning of your penis that you are unwilling to lose it, forget hormone therapy. It just ain't for you, hon.

TerryTerri

03-27-2010, 12:00 PM

My "opinion" has been reflected by most, a functioning penis and natural boobs are mutually exclusive. One or the other, not both. The option of going on hormones long enough to produce boobs and then getting off them to get the sperm generating again is probably not doable either. Seems to me, if one wants viable sperm at any point in the future then I wouldn't recommend hormones at all. To much a chance for permanent bad side-effects on the sperm from the hormones. Seems it'd be a really big crap shoot. And, I'd be way too concerned not just on the quantity of sperm but also the quality. I don't remember reading anything anywhere about how long term hormone use affects the quality of the sperm, but I wouldn't want to risk my kids life on possibly deficient sperm. Know what I mean.
Good luck to you hun.

btw, my penis shrank to about a third it's pre-hormone size and it doesn't get erect at all anymore. My testees shrank some, but it's hard to discern how much. At first, when I stopped producing sperm, my orgasms were very anti-climatical. But, as time has progressed the quality has definitely improved. My libido suffered greatly in the beginning but is rebounding. For men, testosterone provides libido. It's all simple. In female, libido comes from numerous, sometimes complicated places. I find my libido much more womanly these days, it's there, it comes from differnt places in different ways and as I'm growing accustomed to it, I like it this way very much, It is so nice not to truely be able to not have sex on the brain all the time. But, I can definitely be a sex kitty!

Veronica Nowakowski

03-28-2010, 09:03 AM

Well, I appreciate your concern. There is an overwhelming opinion that there is no saving the sterility. I looked into implants and the safe, saline ones are hard and will make wrinkling of the breasts when I add that much with so little breast mass, and silicone are still dangerous, despite feeling more like breast tissue. I don't know if there are different kinds than that.

Linda Z

03-28-2010, 09:50 AM

Veronica Nowakowski

03-28-2010, 09:56 AM

Thank you Linda, that is much more of the attitude I was hoping to see. If you have any suggestions for what to look at, I'd be all ears.

jennaj

03-28-2010, 10:07 AM

I think most that are concerned with saving their fertility while on hormones will put some of their swimmers on ice. This is my plan and should be starting my HRT real soon if everything goes right with my psychiatrist this week.

Like the last post mentioned I know of a few trans working girls that tweak their hormones to be able to maintain an erection. Personally I think this is a horrible idea, HRT is hard enough on the body when properly administered and supervised.

Anyway my 2 cents,
jenna

CharleneT

03-28-2010, 01:21 PM

One of the reasons that questions like this tend to get stern answers is because along with the possible good outcomes of HRT, there are significant risks - and many of the changes are not reversable. Hence we are actually trying to save folks from possibly making a mistake they will regret.

As for HRT without anti-androgens, the fact is that estrogen, all by itself - with no other drugs, will cause all the affects people are talking about. The reasons we take a group of drugs is to get the maximum possible results - and to a small degree, to hurry things along. HRT isn't and Ala' cart menu; you get what you get, no choices. It cannot be tailored to result in breasts and not <fill in blank>. There are a few things that you can be sure of, regardless of what drugs you take.

One: you will be made sterile after a while. When ? No one knows, so if you want kids later, bank some sperm prior to starting therapy.

Two: you will lose some or all of your ability to have erections. How much ? Won't know till you get there. I've been on a seriously strong regime for 9 months and I can still get an erection with the right stimulation. I do that on purpose, weekly. As others have said, need those nerves working for later !!

Three: your body will stop producing much Testosterone and after a point, even if you stop the hormones, your body will not start testosterone production at a normal level again in your life. Hence you'd have to go on Testosterone shots or the like if you wanted off the HRT. Fact is you need to have one of the two hormones systems up and running for healthy living.

Four: breast development, regardless of all things, is a crap shoot. Most likely you'll get some, most likely not much. Even if you have some now ... You cannot not trust what people say they have, or pictures you see. Many exaggerate their results. Sure, there are some folks who get great natural results. As mentioned in other posts ... it is rare. Ask any GG about breast development and they will tell you that ya just don't know till it is done. The only way to increase breast size, for sure, is to get pregnant.

I do not mean to sound harsh or condescending ... it is just that HRT is serious medicine and is something that a person should consider carefully.

Karen564

03-28-2010, 05:34 PM

If this is more about just wanting breast & keeping your man part functioning....then why not do what the she-males do.......get on a small dose of estrogen, then get breast implants,...thats how they keep their thing working well...Guarantied...if that's what floats your boat...

If you want softer facial features on low dose HRT, then get some Botox injections too...just another trick of the trade..

But if the millions of GG's that have had breast implants are their fine with it...why is that not good enough for you??

I'm even thinking of a BA myself later on because I want to move into the larger D or DD cup range...since I have reached my peak growth at a C cup..

If you want to take a chances playing around with HRT & hope for the best with your reproductivity down the road, then so be it...but the advice you were given is solid real world experience....not wishful thinking...

So do as you will...

Byanca

03-28-2010, 07:42 PM

After six months of HRT I no longer get morning or spontaneous erections.
I never had those, a few times, maybe 10-20 my entire life. So lucky, since those are uncomfortable.

I don't understand why so many people think HRT is a game to play just because they think they would like to have breasts? It's nothing to play with. The affects are permanent and carries the risks of side affects that can cause serious health problems, including death.

What are the long term affects? I'm fine with making my life 20 years shorter, if those 0-30 years left is of higher quality.

The more I know, the more informed of a decision I can make.
Exactly. But science isn't absolute either.

Look, we ALL want lovely soft real breasts. Getting them through hormone therapy is a real crap shoot.
I'd settle for small boobs any day if the rest could fix itself.

And the redistribution of fat? Just the same. YMMV. Actually your millage WILL vary. Unless we are fat to begin with, most of us get little to no fat redistribution. Ya gotta have fat to have fat redistribution. This is not a tragedy, there are plenty of women out there with small butts and small hips. I'm one of them.
Tragedy / non tragedy...I can't have any fat is it is, that would be a disaster....

And honey, hormone therapy WILL effect your ability (AND YOUR DESIRE) to get and maintain an erection. Eventually it will effect your body's ability to produce viable sperm. If you desire to have a satisfying sexual relationship with another woman, you are NOT gonna be able to have penetrating intercourse with YOUR penis be a part of that relationship.
I only care about the orgasm, and if I look at the media, I'm not the only one, woman or man. Especially women are focused on in this regard. It's an important aspect for satisfaction. I tend to do it to get the stuff out of my body(the few drops that comes slowly out of it, how this is supposed to impregnate I dunno, hope the are good swimmers, would for sure have to lay on top so it could drop down). Uuh..these things confuses my my little head...

At first, when I stopped producing sperm, my orgasms were very anti-climatical. But, as time has progressed the quality has definitely improved. My libido suffered greatly in the beginning but is rebounding. For men, testosterone provides libido. It's all simple. In female, libido comes from numerous, sometimes complicated places. I find my libido much more womanly these days, it's there, it comes from differnt places in different ways and as I'm growing accustomed to it, I like it this way very much, It is so nice not to truely be able to not have sex on the brain all the time. But, I can definitely be a sex kitty!
When you say sex on the brain, do you mean physically? Or sending out sexual signals, with body language, create attraction. I've never quite understood this notion.

finding a balance is always harder than going one way or the other.
.
.

There is room in the middle, options may vary!:)

In my country you dont get hormones unless you are approved for SRS. No in the middle.

you will be made sterile after a while. When ? No one knows, so if you want kids later, bank some sperm prior to starting therapy.

Seems like an excellent solution. But who knows, maybe the sperm isn't even potent as it is. Now that would truly be ironic/hilarious/tragic.

If this is more about just wanting breast & keeping your man part functioning....
I guess it's more like getting the stuff out of the system. It goes out instead of in, or something like that.

Arianna Aine

03-28-2010, 11:30 PM

as i think the others have been good at iterating, there is always some effect on genitalia. just what effects, and how much, is impossible to predict, as it changes person to person. take me, for instance (i could make a joke but i won't). i've been on HRT for six months, and, as far as i can tell (as i haven't been having sex anyway), there has been very little effect. contrasts quite a bit with the others here, eh?

also, HRT is, again, VERY SERIOUS MEDICINE. treating it as anything less will only contribute to the stereotypes out there against us........oh, and possibly risk yourself.

and as a side note, i always thought of mah danglies as an enemy rather than a friend.

Hope

03-28-2010, 11:32 PM

You know, whenever I read one of these threads I tend to think the same thing: If you don't consider erectile disfunction a POSITIVE outcome of HRT, HRT is probably not for you.

JulieP

03-29-2010, 01:21 AM

my little friend has been anything but a friend. it's more of a nuisance to me and if i could be rid of it tomorrow i would.

Byanca

03-29-2010, 01:21 AM

You know, whenever I read one of these threads I tend to think the same thing: If you don't consider erectile disfunction a POSITIVE outcome of HRT, HRT is probably not for you.
That makes sense, but you make it sound so simple..Frankly I'm more concerned about the rest of the body. The penis, how much is that? like 1% of the surface area. And in my case, really tiny as well. My height, hands, skin, face, shoulders, hips, feet, voice, inverse body hair growth. Those are the things that really make me hate myself. I've never understood this obsession about something as tiny as the penis. Is something one use for urination, and occasional orgasm-and supposedly can produce children. But having children, and status as mother, that however may be a big deal, depending on how strong the mother instinct is. The sexual aspect I presume is taken care of with a good surgeon and a good man.

So for me a erectile penis means two possibilities with time. Orgasms(should be preserved, as it is sexy, and stress reliever-the difference I would think is that you can live it, and not be in a fantasy anymore, like really be there), and motherhood(only option is the sperm) (for some this may be the reason to live).

Kaitlyn Michele

03-29-2010, 08:42 AM

Veronica..

what is your goal with the HRT?...

whatever you decide..you need a clear goal in mind or you will be taking a meaningful health risk and be disappointed...

physical results are not satisfactory without testosterone blocking..you may completely lose function of your penis, you may not...you will definitely go sterile and you can't control how fast..

if your goal is specific and related to how your body looks (breasts/fat distribution), they you have to know that what happens happens...you may gain significant weight with marginal breast growth..thats part of the reason why the transitioners here jump on folks that say they want to start HRT to get breasts....it doesnt work that way all the time...you may want subtle changes, and changes may be quite noticable..

if your goal is mental health, or to test the waters and get the feeling of having the right hormones, then i actually say go for it...but if you are worried about your little friend, then that's not the reason or you are tricking yourself...

get your sperm frozen so if you proceed at least you'll have that...

all the best,
Kate

BTW
Silicone breast implants are not dangerous..its not even clear they ever were unless you just inject the silicon...

i'm getting breast augmentation and i'm using silicon ..

http://www.justbreastimplants.com/breast_implants/silicone.htm

sfwarbonnet

03-29-2010, 10:14 AM

I have seen Estriol identified as a therapy for MS, as relapses seem to be absent in pregnancy, However, Estroil is a form of estrogen so I wonder if it could enlarge breasts:), but cause ED:sad:, if taken in sufficient doses to mimic pregnancy.

Veronica Nowakowski

03-29-2010, 01:39 PM

Kaitlyn Michele

03-29-2010, 04:05 PM

all that stuff may or may not happen

in the 20 months of HRT (and i take massive t blockers)

I've seen modest breast growth..just enough that i could not go topless..but nothing that shows under a shirt

Modest changes to face

no change to hips (i already had a curvy fat butt though)

i've been very disappointed at the impact on my hair (i still have LOTS of hair on my chest arms and belly) , even with the T blockers

i was able to keep the weight off, but i have friends that have gained alot of weight and have massive cravings for sweets after starting HRT

i really find myself wishing for more changes,

i'm very satisfied though with the "feeling" of being authentic and having the "right hormones" in my body...i felt the placebo effect from the moment i started taking HRT...LOL

are you transitioning?
i'm not against HRT for non transitioners, however, i would say that one should be very careful to manage expectations if you are not doing it with an eye towards transition..especially without T blockers..

EnglishRose

03-29-2010, 04:27 PM

i'm very satisfied though with the "feeling" of being authentic and having the "right hormones" in my body...i felt the placebo effect from the moment i started taking HRT...LOL

I'm sick of this feeling (of dysphoria, not your feeling)... now THAT'S what I'm talking about :) Gimme! (sorry for the flippancy but this is what I'm looking for right now).

Do T-blockers make you swear less in- or ex-ternally at all? I've been having a lot of Debra Morgan moments (re: Dexter on the telly) in the voice in my head and I'd like them to go away, please.

Anyway, Veronica, I think you mis-spelled "fiend". All mine wants to do is pee (but never in public), erect itself at the worst times, and attract my wife to it far more than me at any point. It did bring my son into the world so I can't go hating too much I guess. :)

Veronica Nowakowski

03-29-2010, 07:28 PM

Myojine

03-29-2010, 09:04 PM

i hate my penis, i ****in hate it. im almost appaled at you calling it your little "friend" but you sent me some stuff on yahoo for voice traing so realy i cant say much more then thank you...
anyways i was "Blessed" with a fiarly sizable one according to my jelous army buddies, even one of them getting pissed when he found out i was a transrabbit*whos siggy says that?*, and that i was just going to "waste" it.
oh well more depth for me and my male partners when i undergo SRS :daydreaming:. i hate it, its noticeable in tight jeans... i was THRILLED i could fit into size 3 jeans and they made my ass Look AWSOME but my damn "friend" totaly ruined the looks. i cant wait till the stupid thing is a vaginal canal/clitoris instead.
anyways story over, im wondering what the deal is with sex drive, and how it works after all that.

Veronica Nowakowski

03-29-2010, 09:11 PM

Let me explain something.... I used "little friend" as a euphamism because this forum is very puritanical in that sense.

Myojine

03-29-2010, 10:16 PM

Let me explain something.... I used "little friend" as a euphamism because this forum is very puritanical in that sense. The word "pee" was censored in appropriate context (actually will probably be censored again).

i understand that
but MEN call it there "little friend" and from the looks of it your not one anymore or would at this time not be one, i dunno maybe my perception is a little whacked from the :drink: ive been doing lately.
personally i dont care wtf HRT does to it as long as when i go into SRS, i come out with a fully functional vagina/clit, andd that finally feeling that im absolutely no longer male whatsoever.

excuse my hatered for men, but last time i checked it was fairly warrented, God only knows why the hell i wanna loose my virginity to one...

Veronica Nowakowski

03-30-2010, 12:24 AM

It's sounding like implants would cost me around $5k. That brings a serious question of whether I want to finally visit Egypt or get implants in the next year.

Karen564

03-30-2010, 12:34 AM

Answer = Thialand.......then you can do both...

Veronica Nowakowski

03-30-2010, 12:37 AM

Seeing that it would be for a large part a religious pilgrimage, I doubt that would work. There's no Great Pyramid or Temple of Luxor in Thailand, and I can't time travel to ancient Egypt where they'd be accepting with modern technology to get the operation...... So it's a dillema.

TerryTerri

03-30-2010, 02:12 AM

When you say sex on the brain, do you mean physically? Or sending out sexual signals, with body language, create attraction. I've never quite understood this notion.

I'm at a lose of how to describe it. If you've never been 'off' testosterone I don't think you can understand it and if you have I think you do. Any other girls here know how to descrie it any better than my 'lame' non-explanation?

pamela_a

03-30-2010, 08:12 AM

It's sounding like implants would cost me around $5k. That brings a serious question of whether I want to finally visit Egypt or get implants in the next year.

What do you want more? It's merely a matter of priortizing. If the trip is more important to you then you take the trip.

That's one of the difficult things about life...having to make choices.

Karen564

03-30-2010, 10:20 AM

It's sounding like implants would cost me around $5k. That brings a serious question of whether I want to finally visit Egypt or get implants in the next year.

Like Pam mentioned, it boils down to what you want more....
I mentioned Thailand because it's a little cheaper over there than here so you could possibly swing both now if you had the time & money..

Over there it would cost approx. $3500. (for an reputable surgeon) plus airfare & accomidations...you'd have to stay there for approx. 4-6 days for post-op recovery..BTW, the resort hotels are very inexepensive....but RT air fare will run approx 1K+..

crystalann

03-30-2010, 10:33 AM

When I went to Thailand in 09 airfare was $1100 hotel ran $29.00 a day and the implants $2500. Over here my doctor wanted just over $3500:2c:

kellycan27

03-30-2010, 01:47 PM

I paid 5,000.00 in Thailand, but I got the super deluxe boobs, and along with them the envy of all of my g/f's , gg's and cder's.:rofl:

Karen564

03-30-2010, 02:09 PM

I paid 5,000.00 in Thailand, but I got the super deluxe boobs, and along with them the envy of all of my g/f's , gg's and cder's.:rofl:

:o Yup, I can confirm that it's very True...They really are awesome....:tongueout

Linda Z

03-30-2010, 02:53 PM

well, I'm curious about everything now. There seems to be more options. I don't want to transition all the way for external reasons. I would like to be authentic, though even then there are things I want to consider. But I want to know all the options.

I don't like the idea of anyone deciding for me, I just want the facts. I appreciate those who have done just that.

Try not to be caughtup in the hate this or that stuff.

Yes, authentic, is nice, I like my self and all my parts, with 3 kids, and a real A cups. BA is nice, you get what you want, right now, but not for me, Life is a balance, plan well, have some luck, you may get to where you want to be. I like the real softness of E also and i still take care of my wife. no T blocker here.

You seem to be doing your research well, keep going, research everything!
then go research the Doctors, some are one or the other sex only, watch out.
You may need more than one doctor.

find your place, be happy!

Linda Z

morgan pure

03-30-2010, 06:05 PM

Veronica,

Almost 2 years, Es but no Spiro, on and off Pro. I had to stop the Pro because it enhances breast development too much and I'm nowhere near transitioning. Testicles have shrunk dramatically. Fewer spontaneous erections, but still get hard sometimes. Sex drive diminished but not gone. I still have a pretty gay mindset and like sex with guys.

But in the long run Es will ruin your penis, and girls like hard penises, so it would ruin your chances of marriage and a family. What if you did it for a year just to feminize your body? I think you would get too used to it to stop. I love my new breasts, but the emotional change has been the most marked. Even though most pop gender lit is way off the mark, hormones DO affect the brain. Quantifying that effect is of course problematic, but one thing I can say for sure is that I'm tearier easier than I was 2 years ago.

OH! And I finally told my doctor! Thank God, she hardly blinked, and asked me all the right questions and ordered all the right tests. I'm so glad that I did it.

Morgan Pure

Kaitlyn Michele

03-31-2010, 11:13 AM

New here, first post. Interesting thread, lots of thoughtful replies.

My goals mirrored yours when I started electolysis five years ago, but..............

Less than a year after starting electro, I was in therapy, began HT, had FFS last year, name change, DL gender marker change, successfully found a new job and completed my RLT. I paid GRS cost and booked my flight yesterday. My surgery is scheduled early May 2010.

If someone had a crystal ball and told me five years ago I'd be where I am now, I would have shrugged and said "yea right, never happen."

Good luck.

yep...i know that story...:heehee:

Soriya

03-31-2010, 05:15 PM

Hi Veronica,

If I may offer my none HRT and transsexual point of view....

If keeping your member intact and be able to have children in that capacity is a concern you have, then having side effects from HRT may do more non-physical things to you. I have been a Type 1 Diabetic for 16 years now and along with it, I have experienced sexual dysfunction at periods of time due to my diabetes. It doesn't help the fact that my testosterone levels seem to jump all over the map either but never into what is considered a range where I needed testosterone replacement. this is also more then likely a side effect of being diabetic which causes a lot of circulation problems. Why I mention this is because being someone who enjoys being a man, having issues down there has done much harm to my mind and confidence. At times it has been very difficult for me, wondering if I will have a full erection or if I can sustain a good one right before I am about to have sex. This usually compounds the issue making it more likely that I will have a problem, not to mention cause me to not enjoy myself because I am to worried if I am going to be able to perform at all. Sure things like Viagra work but for some, that can lead to bouts of depression as well since with some, they start to question their 'manhood' so to speak. Just something to think about if you truly still want to function as a man in that capacity as HRT will no doubt cause erectile dysfunction.

As far as breasts implants, speaking from the man side, my ex-wife had them done a few years back. What was important for her was the right Dr. She shopped around not for price, but rather quality and the Dr, she picked, told her that he would not give her anything that was 'too big'. He told her his personal policy was to create a natural looking breast package and thus hers look real. Nobody she knows or meets never suspects they are fake. Hers are also filled with a saleen solution I think and again being from the man side, they felt and moved close to real. She loves them.

Just a few things to think about :)

XO

Soriya

kellycan27

03-31-2010, 08:49 PM

How about this.. You can have your cake and eat it too! :heehee:110309

Stephenie S

03-31-2010, 09:59 PM

I thought it kinda cute. It's amazing what we can do with computers.

Veronica Nowakowski

03-31-2010, 10:00 PM

I think that may be a Halloween costume, not a photoshop work.

Genifer Teal

03-31-2010, 10:22 PM

kellycan27

03-31-2010, 10:45 PM

Here is how I see it from my perspective. If your sex drive goes down, along with your ability to get it up, it is like saying, how can you miss what you no longer want. I believe that at the same time you start to loose it, you will want it less. To some extent it might equal out. Now if you have those obligations someone mentioned, then someone else might miss it.

Gen

That's kind of the rub for those who are involved with another person.
I have been on HRT for close to three years now, and though I no longer have erections, my sex drive is pretty high. I can achieve very satisfying sex, only now it is more of an emotional rather than physical thing. What makes it easier for me is that I don't have to perform the male part. I hope this isn't TMI for some of you, if so.. my apologies in advance.

Jennifer in CO

04-01-2010, 08:26 AM

Veronica,
See a doctor (Physiologist). Best would be one with trans gender experience. Then see another doctor (Endocrinologist). Tell them what you want to do. These days, the first will authorize the second to do something if they agree with you that your not out to do harm to yourself. As far as things working post HRT, its all been said before...it probably wont. I got lucky in that I started on the T blocker (kidney medication) before I started male puberty (I was a late bloomer thankfully) so I "grew up" but never really developed.
There is nothing wrong with wanting natural breasts and with fat distribution (if either happens) and your adams apple shaved, you will be able to present as a woman and for the most part will be what some consider a "non-Op" transsexual. Its your life. But for OUR sake as friends, see professionals to guide you to and through your decisions.

Jenn

Veronica Nowakowski

04-01-2010, 06:58 PM

Linda Z

04-02-2010, 07:06 AM

I'm already in therapy, and the therapist will be replacing me with her supervisor when she leaves at the end of this month, so at that point it would be an actual doctor. My therapist does have some TG experience and is giving me to her supervisor because she would be the best suited for it. I have not, however, seen an endocrinologist. I don't know if I'm at that point yet.

you might also see a doctor that is a specialist in sexual medicine, and then have he/she lead the others to support the direction you two decide to go.

:2c:
Linda

sfwarbonnet

04-03-2010, 10:18 AM

all that stuff may or may not happen

in the 20 months of HRT (and i take massive t blockers)

I've seen modest breast growth..just enough that i could not go topless..but nothing that shows under a shirt

are you transitioning?
i'm not against HRT for non transitioners, however, i would say that one should be very careful to manage expectations if you are not doing it with an eye towards transition..especially without T blockers..

OK, HRT might not enlarge my breasts without T-blockers which might make it impossible to function as a male:sad:; that would be a showstopper.

carolinoakland

04-03-2010, 11:13 AM

At about six months you become sterile. And remember, your results may vary. Like Michele I felt an almost instant placebo effect of 'rightness' and while whatever the physical effects may come I've ALLWAYS been more interested in how HRT would make me feel... would I get in touch with other emotions? I have found that I also couldn't go topless anywhere anymore ( I have a sister who insists that I only come as her brother... Hmmm, I wonder what she would do if I walked out into her back yard and used the jacuzzi in nothing but a speedo? ) I have had some great hair reduction results with my body hair. I've had about a fifty percent in the dark, thick hairs on my arms, legs , and around my navel. Heck, I stopped shaving around the navel and arrms, I know women with more and darker hair than what I have now. So, results may vary... is a true statement. AND I'm only half way through, it takes about three years for all of the changes to be complete. So, I'm a patient girl, But I AM a girl, and THAT'S what get's me through those moments of depression... Carol

sfwarbonnet

04-03-2010, 03:24 PM

At about six months you become sterile. And remember, your results may vary...

Do you just shoot blanks, or do you get ED and can't perform as a male? How do ******** do both; are their breasts the result of surgery? I want to appear as a woman and have natural boobs, but be able to function as a male when my panties are off.

Hope

04-03-2010, 04:15 PM

Do you just shoot blanks, or do you get ED and can't perform as a male? How do ******** do both; are their breasts the result of surgery? I want to appear as a woman and have natural boobs, but be able to function as a male when my panties are off.

If you want to have a big hard c00c%, then estrogen is probably not for you. It will lead to both sterility and ED.

Kaitlyn Michele

04-04-2010, 08:30 AM

Do you just shoot blanks, or do you get ED and can't perform as a male? How do ******** do both; are their breasts the result of surgery? I want to appear as a woman and have natural boobs, but be able to function as a male when my panties are off.

gawd..you are such a man...
you want some natural boobs??? :lol:

anyway...i'll be honest....i have been on hrt for about 20 months.. i have erections, i still get unwanted erections when i'm walking around in jeans, ugh....and i can easily orgasm, and it feels better than ever (although i beleive this is probably because the hormones help me to feel "right" about being a sexual person, so i'm not guilty and ashamed every time i orgasm)....either no or very little liquid comes out, and i could care less...

my best friend on HRT after 6 months can barely get her penis to move...and when she does she says it hurts alot like a sharp knifing pain when she is hard, and it hurts her so much she cant wait for it to get flaccid...i experienced this very early in my HRT, and then it went away, it hurt BAD...for me it went away..for her it didnt..

so as you can see...there is absolutely NO way to predict it

IF you are doing it for sex (and based on your comments you certainly are)...then the ONLY sensible way to go is breast augments...you could also spend a TON of money and get Facial surgery and you can become much more feminine in appearance...

GypsyKaren

04-04-2010, 10:52 AM

Generally speaking, you shouldn't get within a mile of an estrogen pill if you still want to function as a male. HRT is for feminizing your body and you can't pick and choose the parts it will effect, and no doctor will touch you if you want to play both sides of the fence...if you want to be a man, be a man.

Karen :g1:

busker

04-30-2010, 09:47 PM

Veronica,
Some men who want breasts may be lucky enough to be sensitive to the chemicals in saw palmetto. It is listed as far back as 1890 as having that effect on both women (increasing mammaries) and men (causing gyne).
My doctor recommended it several years ago for urination problems and low and behold I grew a set of boobs. Confirmed by my endo a few weeks ago as he told to cut out the SP. My testosterone is 332 (241-827) estradiol is 36 (13-54) which is more than most menopausal women and prolactin--useless is men , stimulates milk produciton in women--is 14 (2-16).
good luck with your quest
mandrake out of water

lizlizzie

04-30-2010, 11:49 PM

finding a balance is always harder than going one way or the other.
Some of us still have function, of our little friend.
Find a good DR that will help you with gender desire, remember the symbol is a rainbow for a reason. your options vary as you move from your birth gender, you need to read, and consult as you need. All ways remember to think it out, with input from you selected DR.

There is room in the middle, options may vary!:)

Veronica, I am providing a different point of view as the GG spouse of a MTF. My spouse started hormones in January. She spoke with her doctor about her needs and concerns. Some doctors do take the attitude of it being a black and white situation. Some doctors think like some have posted in here that if you want to have breasts but still be able to function it must be for the wrong reasons. But her doctor, like Linda stated, does believe in the rainbow.

My spouse has been in gender therapy counseling for 2 years before starting hormones. She told her doctor that she wants to be able to maintain a sexual relationship with. The doctor put her on a regimen that has resulted in breast growth and still allows her to have an erection. While it does take some work, and as a heterosexual female I do miss the ability to have that certain affect on my spouse simply from a certain look or pose, it works for us. There has been some softening of body hair and slower growth in some areas but not all and her hips have either spread or gotten rounder. It has affected her emotionally. There has also been leg cramps and nipples that are so sore just her shirt rubbing against her makes her cringe.

Yes, my spouse has always felt like she was a female in a male body. However, she has never hated her penis. I have made a lot of sacrafices in staying with her, to include my son and daughter no longer talking to me. Marriage is about compromise, it is about putting someone else's needs above your own. Her choice is because she loves me and she wants me to have happiness too and neither of us wants to lose the other. So her choice has been to live happily today and not concentrate on SRS. We both understand this is not a popular point of view from other's perspectives. As someone else posted, the majority of post-ops end up alone. For her, that is not what will make her happy. Being female is how she feels and how she sees herself. How you see yourself and how you express that is a choice each of us should have the right to make individually.

Misty is Kindafem

05-01-2010, 02:51 AM

Hi Veronica,

What I'm about to say is gonna tick off nearly every TS girl on the board, maybe even some girls I adore;

Taste the rainbow baby!!!

I recently started with a great therapist who specializes in Gender work, and she has many years of experience. She really put my mind at ease about this whole transition thing.

Basically, it is YOUR life and you will need to do what works for YOU, regardless of any well meaning but misguided advice. She said there is no right way to feel comfortable with yourself or deal with whatever your gender issue is. Every person has different needs and every situation is unique.

Don't let the SRS brigade stop you from exploring whatever options you want to explore. These ladies keep harping on safety this and safety that and serious medicine, yadda yadda, ...and they're right. That's why you have a doctor!!!

Personally, I would always trust my doctor and therapist before I would ever entertain the advice of someone on this board who I don't even know is real. This board is great entertainment and there are some great people here (as far as I know) but your doctors are the most important players in this little melodrama. If your docs can understand your goals, than that's all that matters.

I'm appalled at some of the snotty comments and holier than thou attitudes in this thread.

Guess what ladies, there are many different paths to contentment. Some of you just see the word hormone and you jump in like it's your job to protect us poor dumb misguided fools. Well, let me clue you in. I don't really care what you think about whatever my plans are so I generally keep them to myself and my actual friends for this exact reason. I won't be put in the position of defending something that me and my doctors are working on. In fact I just recently had some surgery which was rather expensive but very important for my feminizing goals. Notice I never peeped about it, or the long recovery until now.

I know that the path my therapist is suggesting would be met with a howl of protest from the self professed arbiters of femininity so I save myself the grief by not posting personal details along those lines. This is NOT the place to share intimate details about your life.

It's funny that the same people who yap about safety seem to have no problem jumping in and giving dangerous advice like they're qualified to do so. It's my understanding that a therapist can't give advice on HRT until she's had enough time to get to know the patient and the situation. Then the Endo has to do her research. What are you starting with? What are you wanting to do? What are the risks? These people don't care about your health and safety. No doctor would advise you without at least some very basic information which you haven't provided. The best and only advice you should get is simply; see a doctor.

In general, free advice is worth every penny, but I would say that free medical advice is worth much less. Especially when the advice giver has an obvious bias.

-Misty

Kaitlyn Michele

05-01-2010, 06:56 AM

GAWD AM I TICKED OFF!!!!

...actuallynot..

your point is well taken in all its provocative glory

people need to do what they want...people make choices about their own safety and their own needs... if you don't do your own research then its on you if something doesnt work out...and one of the biggest things that I've seen is folks with unrealistic and fantastical views of HRT, transition and beyond..

free advice is worth alot more than nothing though..its not the end of anything...its just the start...

google is free...is it worthless? an open forum is a different version of the same thing. and this is an open forum with 100's of years of collective experience.... when i was getting divorced, i posted i was trans on a divorce forum hoping for some advice...once

like you Misty, i know that being smarter than everyone else is a very difficult burden (ahem)..but don't worry i'm not troubled by the contradiction in your posts! i think the worthless information you laid out is just as valuable as my worthless information!!

in the end, i think we are all going through an absolutely brutal destructive process..being trans is unlike anything else...having a "condition" that makes you feel worthless, being surrounded by folks that don't understand at best, and living in a world that mocks and belittles you sucks...and many folks are desperate for any kind of help..and I for one will try every time to help anyone that is going through it..and i think that's what you are doing too, even tho for some reason you feel our discussions are worthless...

one of the most rewarding things i have done since i accepted my fate and started my own feminization is to share what i've learned with others.

Joan Merrie

05-01-2010, 08:22 AM

OK, I wasn't going to post here. But let's say she get her cake, and candy too. Later we'll see a post, OMG I've got breast, But I Still want to present as a man, how do I hide them, My wife/girl friend has left me because of them. What do I do now.
In my opinion ( opinions are like, well everybody knows that one), Run as far away, from HRT as you can.
If you do not want to live full time, then don't play with HRT.

Melissa A.

05-01-2010, 08:56 AM

Asking me if I'm "able" to get an erection is like asking me if I am able to eat glass.

Having a hairless body, almost-B-cup breasts, and alot more hair on my the top of my head have all been welcome, but if I knew that all I would get out of HRT was the death of my male libido and the psychological well-being the drugs have brought, and nothing more, I would have still said, "when do we start?" But I didn't know. And since I was individual with my own unique genetic history and body, my doctor didn't know for sure, either, outside of certain parameters. Like it or not, those parameters, and results are there with the transsexual in mind, as far as I know. Maybe it is possible to customize an HRT regimen. I dunno. I do know that the whole package, for a transsexual, seems to work for most.

Geez, It was ridiculously obvious, to me, at least, that talking to my therapist and my doctor were the best ways to take care of my issues. But I'm also extremely grateful to all the holier than thou folks who were happy to share their experiences and feelings with me along the way, and I haven't felt too many better feelings than giving that back in some small way, when given the opportunity. There was a time when many gender variant people felt and thought they were totally alone, sometimes feeling like they were the only ones, anywhere, who felt the things they were feeling. So now that a measure of guidance, solidarity, community, and yes, sometimes some realistic, no-crap assesments of what may be in store are available, that's somehow a bad thing. Meh.

As always, well said, Kaitlyn.

Hugs,

Melissa:)

Misty is Kindafem

05-01-2010, 11:02 AM

If you do not want to live full time, then don't play with HRT.

Says you. I'm so glad people like you don't get to make decisions for the rest of us.

Veronica will do what's best for her.

-Misty

Joan Merrie

05-01-2010, 11:42 AM

Says you. I'm so glad people like you don't get to make decisions for the rest of us.

Veronica will do what's best for her.

-Misty
Like I said opinions are like, well you know. That's just mine. I know I wouldn't want to go through life, presenting as a man. Especially one with breasts. If she is going to live full time, that's fine.( to me full time doesn't mean SRS, many of us just cant afford that, I wish I could, I'd have it done today. For me that distended hoo ha birth defect is just something for the wast liquids to come out of.)

Misty is Kindafem

05-01-2010, 11:46 AM

GAWD AM I TICKED OFF!!!!

...actuallynot..

your point is well taken in all its provocative glory

Hmmmm, but maybe not provocative enough if you saw through it.

...and one of the biggest things that I've seen is folks with unrealistic and fantastical views of HRT, transition and beyond..

Oh, no doubt about it girl, there are people out there doing stupid things. Some of them are self medicating which I don't think is a good idea, but even that is none of my business. This is a free country and people are free to F themselves up however they choose to do it.

free advice is worth alot more than nothing though..its not the end of anything...its just the start...

Good point, but I couldn't resist the pithy remark.

and this is an open forum with 100's of years of collective experience....

Yes it is, but it comes with just as much BS and personal bias as any group of people you would find on the street. I'm sorry but transitioning yourself does NOT make you an expert on all things transition related. It makes you a patient. One of many who is experiencing a million different things which are mostly unique to YOU. Your life, your body, your changes.

like you Misty, i know that being smarter than everyone else is a very difficult burden

Oh girl ain't that the truth!

...wait a minute, were you being sarcastic?

....HEY!!!

i think the worthless information you laid out is just as valuable as my worthless information!!

Well, to be fair, I was mainly talking about issues like this. Where somebody is giving stern "advice" (sounds like orders to me though) when they don't have enough information for a proper diagnosis. How in the heck are you gonna tell someone what they can or can't do with HRT when you don't even know them? Never met them, never seen a test result, never consulted with their therapist. That's the free advice I think needs to be ignored.

..and I for one will try every time to help anyone that is going through it..and i think that's what you are doing too, even tho for some reason you feel our discussions are worthless...

You're right of course except for one little thing; I don't feel the DISCUSSION is worthless at all. That's why I dove in with a fist full of provocation. The discussion will prove to be fruitful, (after the echo chamber has been turned down a notch) but the "run from HRT if you're not me" dogma was not helpful and I felt compelled to walk in waving a freedom flag. There's thousands of girls out there who don't post but can be intimidated by some of that vitriol into more confusion. Rather than see a therapist, they get influenced by the louder voices and start to think that maybe there is only one way.

My therapist opened my eyes. There is a smorgasbord of opportunity out there these days and if nobody else was gonna say it, then I am proud to take the heat.

one of the most rewarding things i have done since i accepted my fate and started my own feminization is to share what i've learned with others.

Yes, and it's honest forthright discussions like this that provide the best forum for sharing. I've shoveled quite a bit of BS in my time but one thing I've noticed is that BS always crumbles in the heat of even the most mild debate.

-Misty

CharleneT

05-01-2010, 12:52 PM

Misty, you are right that "we" tend to sound self righteous when we suggest that only people who wish to transition fully should consider hormones. Maybe we are keeping you away from some rainbow with that advice. But we are also doing two important things: trying to keep you from starting a fairly dangerous drug regime for the wrong reasons, and trying to avoid having to tell you (later) that unfortunately - yes - the affects of HRT are to a great degree, permanent. Regardless of which group of results you get (good or bad).

We really aren't as haughty as we may seem, rather we're trying to save folks from their own foolish decisions. Sure, HRT could work out for some to be a "Boobs but hard Johnson too", with few if any other effects... but it is not very likely that that will be the case.

Elizabeth 66

05-01-2010, 01:54 PM

Do you know any reason that would affect your ability to have children?

Just to make it clear, i am not yet on HRT, but intend to get on it as soon as the doctors all agree.

After doing a lot of reading on the subject, what i do know is the it does make you sterile over a period of time, this apparently varies from person to person, as do the other effects of HRT, what you can do before you start your treatment, is look into getting some sperm frozen, how you would go about that i do not know, as i have not looked into it as i have had my children and really dont want more.

Misty is Kindafem

05-01-2010, 04:54 PM

But we are also doing two important things: trying to keep you from starting a fairly dangerous drug regime for the wrong reasons, and trying to avoid having to tell you (later) that unfortunately - yes - the affects of HRT are to a great degree, permanent. Regardless of which group of results you get (good or bad).

I know Charlene, but that's exactly what I'm talking about.

The "wrong" reasons.

Wrong for who? You?

Joan just said she would never want go through life as a man with boobs and I respect that. Why can't you do the same for Veronica?

Look, a lot of you girls who have transitioned have made decisions along the way that I personally wouldn't have made, but I respect you for making them and living out your lives the way YOU feel is best. There are people out there who surgically install horns and fangs. There are people who alter their bodies in any number of ways for any number of reasons. If somebody wants to take a pill to grow an arm out of the top of their head then I'm afraid that's their business and you're just gonna have to live with it.

So what if they complain later that they can't wear hats anymore? Gosh, then we all get the smug satisfaction that comes with being right for once in our miserable lives.

I have no idea what Veronica wants to do, but let's just say she wants to emulate a she-male porn star. So what?!

Many women and men want to have bodies like porn stars. There's a whole plastic surgery industry that's basically founded on the "ideal" look for the female body. So she wants the body and she wants the erection. It happens, it's been done. Get over it.

Too many rules, and tradition is a poor excuse.

-Misty

ReineD

05-01-2010, 05:44 PM

I do agree that seeing a doctor is best, but it doesn't hurt to also get some info from reputable internet sites, if only to have a list of questions you can bring to your doctor.

Here is your list of desired effects:

1) breast growth (for that natural feeling)
2) softening of the facial features
3) reduction of body hair growth
4) redistribution of fat, especially away from the gut area which is where all my fat goes.
5) ideally, removing the adam's apple (which stays far to the top of my throat I hide it without problem) to feminize my voice, though I understand that's not an actual effect

This is what HRT does according to the LGBT group at Ohio University (http://www.ohio.edu/lgbt/resources/transoptions.cfm):

1) Yes to breast growth, but according to members here, how much growth is a crap shoot.
2) No to softer facial features or any other skeletal attribute such as height, size of hands & feet, although the skin will soften.
3) Yes to lessening of body hair (but not facial hair .. you will need facial laser hair removal).
4) Yes to redistribution of fat, but according to members here, only if you have fat to distribute.
5) No to removal of adam's apple.

In addition to the above:

6) No change in voice.
7) Loss of strength.
8) Increased emotional sensitivity, depression not uncommon.
9) Diminished ability to achieve erections and to ejaculate.
10) Sterelity
11) Possible long-term health risks such as thromboembolic disease (blood clotting), and benign pituitary tumors, gallbladder disease, and hypertension.

There are also other options and resources on the site.

Joan Merrie

05-01-2010, 06:41 PM

to help fight blood clotting, i take a baby aspirin a day. But now even a small prick or cut, I think I'm going to bleed to death, before it stops.

CharleneT

05-01-2010, 07:26 PM

I know Charlene, but that's exactly what I'm talking about.

The "wrong" reasons.

Wrong for who? You?

Joan just said she would never want go through life as a man with boobs and I respect that. Why can't you do the same for Veronica?

Look, a lot of you girls who have transitioned have made decisions along the way that I personally wouldn't have made, but I respect you for making them and living out your lives the way YOU feel is best. There are people out there who surgically install horns and fangs. There are people who alter their bodies in any number of ways for any number of reasons. If somebody wants to take a pill to grow an arm out of the top of their head then I'm afraid that's their business and you're just gonna have to live with it.

So what if they complain later that they can't wear hats anymore? Gosh, then we all get the smug satisfaction that comes with being right for once in our miserable lives.

I have no idea what Veronica wants to do, but let's just say she wants to emulate a she-male porn star. So what?!

Many women and men want to have bodies like porn stars. There's a whole plastic surgery industry that's basically founded on the "ideal" look for the female body. So she wants the body and she wants the erection. It happens, it's been done. Get over it.

Too many rules, and tradition is a poor excuse.

-Misty

The problem isn't with what V. wants to do, it is with the fear we all live with that someone out there will think to themselves that "if those ladies do that then I can too..." but, for the wrong reasons. Then later, believe that they were led astray by words on a forum such as this one. None of us want to think back and have to say " I could have said something to her ... maybe she would have sought out a gender therapist and found out that it was just a fetish" ...or whatever.

We - as in TS folks - are trying to fix something about our very basic makeup. It is a very different thing from changing your fangs. Which you can change right back pretty easily if you want to do so. Along the way we learn out of need, about the details of transition. Few who are very much along that path would "recommend it to others". We worry that someone will mistake what we say as advice to go off and change your gender because it sounds like fun. IT AIN'T no fun, trust me on that one, please.

Here we talk it out, in extreme detail at times. It might seem to some that it is a thing they'd like to "try out". That is the rub, we want to try as gently as possible, to convince them to seek professional help before going down this road. I mention this because even though it is not often talked about here, you can easily get the HRT drugs without the help and advice of a qualified doctor. You can then dose yourself up, seek what you think you want and find yourself in a heap - and I mean HEAP of trouble. So, yes, we worry way too much about someone emulating us for the wrong reasons. Yes, that does mean that we appear to be "dividing up who is right and who is wrong..." etc. When in fact very few of us ever want to do that, or ever wanted to be here in this position. But here we are and so we get kinda touchy when it seems that someone might be going in a direction that isn't for the right reasons. Yes, that means we feel you must have the "right reasons", because if you don't, and you end up sorry over it, you may be stuck without a way of getting back to where you comfortable. The big issue here that isn't mentioned as much as it should: HRT is a one way street. You start and after a while ( they won't say when ) you can't go back to your normal again. You will be stuck on some form of HRT for life.

You don't like your tattoo ? Laser it off. You don't like that piercing ? Take 'er out. You think your vampire phase is over ? Go to the dentist and get the implants out. This all very different from "I've been on HRT for 9 months and I want my erections back, and when will these boobs shrink back down"???

Gawd... I'm sorry, because I am lecturing here... I really do not want to preach. BUT I really do not want you to think that what I do is a good idea for you, UNLESS it really is.... so sure I'll challenge you on it. My challenge is nothing, nothing at all compared to what you will face if you follow me down this road. Yeah, it sounds so enticing, but it ain't, it just ain't.

Joan Merrie

05-01-2010, 07:56 PM

As Charlene said, this is a very dangerous path. Is it fun heck no. I've lost all most every thing, i/e mom,dad,brother, both sisters, in laws, some friends, my house that I helped build, nearly lost my job. and came very,very close to ending my life, once my cat stopped me, the last time my wife came in and took the gun from me.

Would I wish this on my worst enemy, he** no. This isn't a fun trip at all. That's why we get over protective if we think someone is thinking she can do it so can I.

PLEASE, PLEASE, think this through, talk to your better half, a qualified therapist, before you jump an this scary ride.

Kaitlyn Michele

05-01-2010, 09:22 PM

Reine your list is mostly consistent with what i've seen personally

it is possible to see a softening of facial features though, but it usually takes a long time, some girls see that happen post srs even after years of HRT

i've also had friends that didnt see fat move, but after srs they did get more curvy..

it really is a broken record that folks overestimate what the meds can do so its fraught with problems.. one reason for this in my estimable opinion is that we all grow up looking over the fence at femininity but don't really understand it, so we covet what seems most attractive, but otherwise have no clue.....as my friend dave would mutter over his beer...tits and ass, tits and ass, tits and ass...

thats how i felt...then i started the HRT, and it was nothing like i thought, it took FOREVER to fricking start working, my blood work got crappy., etc etc,,...on the good side i learned that living my real female life was worth it, even though it was nothing like what i thought..

now will somebody come over here and help me open this jar of pickles?

Joan Merrie

05-02-2010, 09:10 AM

This thread has been troubling me for some reason.
1 V. doesn't want to transition to full time.
To me full time is 24/7 365. not back and forth.
2 She wants the effects of hrt, but keep function.
It's possible, but no one knows how your body will react.
For instance, My Dr. had me on a low dose of Spiro. and a high dose of E. What happened was when my E levels go to a certain level, my body converted it to testerone. That was like a death sentence to me. So he upped my Spiro, and lowered my E.
My point is Excessive levels of estrogen can become testerone, so you are going backwards.

3 This is just my opinion. What if you do get your much wanted breasts. You go to the beach or where ever, in male mode, are you going to keep your shirt on? how will you explain you boobs, Gynecomast? well those Male breasts look a whole lot different than female breasts.

We do not mean to be preachy, but this is a dangerous road. please think things through, before you commit to this path.

Misty is Kindafem

05-02-2010, 11:37 AM

This thread has been troubling me for some reason.

Hmmm, maybe the idea of personal responsibility is what's really troubling you.

1 V. doesn't want to transition to full time.
To me full time is 24/7 365. not back and forth.

I'm not gonna transition full time for at least another couple of years. Maybe never. I can't speak for Veronica's plans but so what. YOU bit off full time, maybe we will maybe we won't. You don't approve so just give us your best dirty look and move on with your life.

2 She wants the effects of hrt, but keep function.
It's possible, but no one knows how your body will react.
For instance, My Dr. had me on a low dose of Spiro. and a high dose of E. What happened was when my E levels go to a certain level, my body converted it to testerone. That was like a death sentence to me. So he upped my Spiro, and lowered my E.
My point is Excessive levels of estrogen can become testerone, so you are going backwards.

Just so we're clear, it's okay for your doctor to experiment with YOUR dosage but it's NOT okay for Veronica? Why? Oh, because you got there first, I get it. You have learned hard lessons and that poor dear has no idea what she's getting into. Well, relax hon, I'm sure her doctor is almost as good as yours, but to be safe, you may want to send your contact info just in case her Doc gets stumped on something.

3 This is just my opinion. What if you do get your much wanted breasts. You go to the beach or where ever, in male mode, are you going to keep your shirt on?

Are you gonna keep yours on?

how will you explain you boobs, Gynecomast? well those Male breasts look a whole lot different than female breasts.

Yes they do, and that's exactly why we want them. I think it's sweet that you're so concerned about our embarrassment at the beach or wherever, but do you really think I'm so stupid that I wouldn't make the appropriate adjustments in my life to accommodate my breasts? Really? Life isn't a sitcom, where I run out with my (totally straight) buddies and tear off my shirt for a quick game of Top Gun shirtless volleyball. Ooops, OMG look at Johnny! Dude you got boobs!!!

If it makes you feel any better, I won't shave my chest. That way the site of my big hairy boobs will stun them long enough for me to put my shirt back on and pretend like nothing ever happened. Maybe I'll start a biker gang and I'll grow a beard and cut boob holes in my leather jacket.

The world is my oyster!

We do not mean to be preachy, but this is a dangerous road. please think things through, before you commit to this path.

Thanks Mom, but I'm an adult with a career and a mortgage. I'm fully capable of thinking things through all by my wittle self. No offense, but my therapist has a lot more invested in my particular case than you do. Also, she has a hell of a lot more experience with this stuff than you do. Why can't you people understand that what you know is based on what you've learned about YOURSELF and that there is a full range of possibilities that you didn't consider or didn't choose for one reason or another.

The big wheel keeps on turnin' baby and I will continue to explore options that work for me. My happiness is paramount and I will do what makes me happy. (period)

Maybe someday we'll meet and I'll tip my hat with the arm that's growing out of my head. ...and if by chance that really gets your goat, then that will make me happy as well.

-Misty

Midnight Skye

05-02-2010, 11:41 AM

This is what HRT does according to the LGBT group at Ohio University (http://www.ohio.edu/lgbt/resources/transoptions.cfm):

1) Yes to breast growth, but according to members here, how much growth is a crap shoot.
2) No to softer facial features or any other skeletal attribute such as height, size of hands & feet, although the skin will soften.
3) Yes to lessening of body hair (but not facial hair .. you will need facial laser hair removal).
4) Yes to redistribution of fat, but according to members here, only if you have fat to distribute.
5) No to removal of adam's apple.

In addition to the above:

6) No change in voice.
7) Loss of strength.
8) Increased emotional sensitivity, depression not uncommon.
9) Diminished ability to achieve erections and to ejaculate.
10) Sterelity
11) Possible long-term health risks such as thromboembolic disease (blood clotting), and benign pituitary tumors, gallbladder disease, and hypertension..

Thanks Riene. Though there is one more I'm surprised wasn't on there. Slow/stop of male pattern hair loss. This is the biggest one for me. I find it impossible to face growing older and knowing my hair will progressively get thinner and fall out. I can't see not taking hormones as I move to full time.

Hope

05-02-2010, 02:48 PM

This thread has been troubling me for some reason.
1 V. doesn't want to transition to full time.
To me full time is 24/7 365. not back and forth.
2 She wants the effects of hrt, but keep function.
It's possible, but no one knows how your body will react.

1) doesn't bother me so much. I think there is some legitimacy in all forms of gender expression. At the same time I think there would be unexpected costs associated with the constant switching back and forth, like a never-ending transition, where people never learn how to interact with you from day to day; and/or people will have a hard time taking the female presentation seriously and/or the psychological workload of trying to keep up two lives. But maybe that is what the OP wants. Maybe when the time comes the OP will decide the costs are too high and will decide to stick with one presentation. In either case I tend to think it's the OP's right to live in a bizarre manner if she wants to. Thankfully we all have that right.

2) Is the one I find a bit disturbing and indicates that the OP either hasn't done her homework, or is living in fantasy land. I think if she was making an informed decision - aware of the risks, she should be allowed to make it - but... this doesn't sound informed to me.

Misty is Kindafem

05-02-2010, 03:28 PM

1)

2) Is the one I find a bit disturbing and indicates that the OP either hasn't done her homework, or is living in fantasy land. I think if she was making an informed decision - aware of the risks, she should be allowed to make it - but... this doesn't sound informed to me.

SHE HAS A DOCTOR!

Sorry for shouting but she said she was going to F'n therapy already. What do you people want?

You ladies remind me of those old biddies that give me dirty looks in the cosmetics aisle at Target.

Let Veronica and her doctor work this out.

Disturbing indeed.

-Misty

Karen564

05-02-2010, 07:29 PM

What I'm about to say is gonna tick off nearly every TS girl on the board, maybe even some girls I adore;
Misty

Naw..

Not in a million years...so no worries Misty

Life is way too short to sweat the small stuff..

In the end, no matter what I or others say, many do what they want anyways, regardless of the warnings coming from years of experience..

As far as Veronica goes, it doesn't matter to me either way of what she wants...but I'll wish her the best & hope she can find whatever shes looking for...

Me ka `oia`i`o,

Aloha ahiahi......:drink:

Sharon

05-03-2010, 09:36 AM

Let's do our best to keep the level of antagonism towards one another down a bit..., k?

Melissa A.

05-04-2010, 08:25 AM

SHE HAS A DOCTOR!

True, that. She has a doctor, and a therapist. So why'd she ask around here? Was she looking for opinions or affirmation? Her first response to a few posts tells me it was the latter, and I haven't got a problem with that, or with whatever anyone does with their own body. But ask a question, and yer gonna get folk's opinions. And since the title of this forum starts with the word transsexual, whattya think the prevailing opinion will be? Actually, Veronica recieved a pretty well varied spectrum of responses. I don't know how ya get "snotty" out of the ones cautioning her about HRT, which, even with a doctor's and therapist's help, is still a pretty serious undertaking. She seemed to be asking about the consequences concerning her penis. She asked for opinions. She got'em. You and her are taking a path that is a bit different than most here. You may be aware of alternatives some of us aren't aware of, or frankly, probably haven't even bothered to check into. That's fine. I truly wish ya the best. But I've known many of the people here for a while and I know how gracious and willing to give they can be, and I don't know why the instances of name-calling, accusations, sarcasm, or the seemingly bending over backwards to be contrarian were necessary.

Hugs,

Melissa:)

Elizabeth 66

05-04-2010, 09:05 AM

I know I have seen posts on this before, but I'd like to hear something new on it nonetheless. How has HRT affected your genitals (pre-op)? Are you able to get erections? If so, how much effort is needed and how stable is it? Do you know any reason that would affect your ability to have children?

I see you are asking people for there opinion on how they have been affected, and not for medical advice. you seem to have this already, and roused some feelings i see.

Well, I have not had kids, want them, primarily attracted to women so the pieces fitting would be great. I just want the softer features and real breasts beyond the A cups I have naturally. Is there a way to get HRT without anti-androgens?

EDIT: Looking a bit at it, it appears that that part of it is reversable though the breast growth is not. Perhaps I'd just have to be non-working for a period of time?

If you take HRT some or the symptoms are reversible, but it is not guaranteed which ones, i have read that you sperm count can come back, but it might not.

I'd really, really prefer the natural breasts. I don't want the hard, fake ones. i do want the redistribution of fat without 50 scars all over my body and thousands of dollars.

I want all my options open. Why should HRT be off limits to me because I'm not interested in the legal sex change surgery? The more I know, the more informed of a decision I can make.

May i ask do you have a partner now, because if you have hrt and change to look more like a woman it may affect your chances in the future to get a partner, just a thought to throw in there.

Well, I appreciate your concern. There is an overwhelming opinion that there is no saving the sterility. I looked into implants and the safe, saline ones are hard and will make wrinkling of the breasts when I add that much with so little breast mass, and silicone are still dangerous, despite feeling more like breast tissue. I don't know if there are different kinds than that.

I'm not sure that implants would be enough for you, as without any breast fat they will in my none professional opinion look real, also you would still have male nipples..

Thank you Linda, that is much more of the attitude I was hoping to see. If you have any suggestions for what to look at, I'd be all ears.

I can totally understand were your coming from, the desire to look like and be like a woman is strong, but there is also another strong feeling and that is that you want to have children in the future.

There is no right and wrong way to go about things, they just all have different consequence's, people may have opinions and some will be stronger than others, and be expressed differently, and i feel no one on this forum has a right to judge others, as we are all outside what society in genera,l would class as normal, and the whole idea of having this forum is for mutual support and advice, Veronica, my advice to you is to read all the responses, talk to your doctor and make a decision that suites you, and what you think you want for the future, because what you want in the future may change one way or another.

lizlizzie

05-10-2010, 09:23 PM

So many responses seem dead set on that if your goal is not surgery then you are not serious. If gender has no relationship to genitalia then what is under your skirt is irrelevant, except to the person wearing the skirt and their partner. In regards to wanting a functioning penis and breasts why does that preclude her wanting to be a woman? Once again, gender identity is not genitilia.

With the attitude that it is all or nothing and that if you are not in the all category than where does that leave the women who cannot have surgery for medical reasons? Are they not real in the opinion of those in this forum? And what message are we giving them by taking that position?

There is also the reality of life. I recognize that my spouse has had to give up a lot of things because of the gender issue. But to become a woman does that mean she has to throw away her brain? Reality is she has a family to support and she is in a male job. In the future maybe she will be able to find something comparable, but to leave her family in the street is not a loving, compassionate, intelligent decision and I respect her more for the fact that she recognizes that she has to balance her needs against the families' needs, which is a very female thing to do in my book.

My spouse is on hormones. I have no problem with her wearing whatever she wants to at the pool. If that means shorts and a bikini top, so be it. If that means going topless, I envy her getting away with it.

JenniferZ2009

05-11-2010, 01:48 AM

If you want hormones make sure to follow the standards of care. Get a therapist and talk with a doctor. If they feel it is safe and that you have gender disphoria then you may get hormones.

Only once I realized what hormones trully mean and would do did my therapist agree to give me my letter. Originally I wanted hormones to make me a female (easy way out) but now I know I am female (had to work at it and learn what it means to be a female) and I haven't taken hormones yet.

For me being a female is not a fun thing but a this is who I am am and I finally feel normal thing and I am having fun while I do it. It can be hard some times but it is so rewarding.

Empress Lainie

05-11-2010, 11:32 AM

WOW, this was an exceptional thread, after reading it all the way through. I did everything WRONG. But I have been living and completely accepted as a woman for over 2 nearly 3 years, complete with female ID. I am likely non-op unless I finally get a nice big $1 million from the suit against the city that fired me solely because I said I was trans and was wearing a wig (had worn for 7 years before transition) and a SKIRT (OMG!!!)

I do not even consider myself a trans person any more, just a woman. (Don't bother with the "you are really a man crap")

I would not tell anyone else to follow my path, but if someone does, it is their choice and their risks, and their considered choice just like it was mine.

I see a lot of related actual experiences posted on here which I think was what the OP was asking for anyway.

To go with the flow: I have B breasts. I have very low sex drive, erections only a memory, ejaculations down to about 25% of what pre transition on a yearly basis was. Quantity
is less than formerly, but even in me I think quantity is dependent on interval between ejaculations. Notable shrinkage of the thing, maybe of those damned berries I would like to discard. They make my panties not fit so well.

Result of 20yrs saw palmetto, nearly 3 years of fenugreek, and six months of estrace vaginal cream, and one month of progesterone cream and estrogen cream. Cream used daily, and applied to my breasts. Saw 1/2 inch over bust measurement increase over the last 2 months.

I was attacked for mentioning the above regimen before by those of the medical religious fanatic persuasion claiming it can't work (must be because only FDA approved regimes with prescription medicine are the only things that can possibly work. At least that is the party line!)

Personally I agree with the probable majority ----- Do NOT go near any HRT hormones unless you are completely serious about transitioning and living as a female. I would rather die than live one day as a (pretend) man.

One thing in my favor - I don't have a spouse, but I have a gg gf that will marry me today just as I am. She also knew me for 16 yrs before transition.

Cindi Johnson

05-11-2010, 10:43 PM

Personally I agree with the probable majority ----- Do NOT go near any HRT hormones unless you are completely serious about transitioning and living as a female. I would rather die than live one day as a (pretend) man.

I'll add my two cents.

I agree with Misty. Like her, I have avoided discussing hormones on this site due to the sanctimonius knee-jerk reactions which always result. I probably will never transition fully. I probably will never live 100% full time as a female..., nor as a male. But hey, it's my body and my life, so get over it!

Hormones are not all or nothing. A small dose might not affect one's ability to orgasm. It hasn't mine, even after three or four years now. So what has E done for me? It gave me a body I'm happy with, with fat in the right places, small breasts, softer face. But more than that (much more!), it's been like a fountain of youth. I feel young again, more alive, and much more happy than I was before taking E. I'm content, at peace with myself and the world, and a lot of this I attribute to estrogen.

I'd love to be a young, pretty girl. God, yes! I've always felt that i should have been born a girl. But it's not going to happen; even if I transition, I'll be an older woman, good looking at best, but too old to be pretty. Plus, I've got certain family responsibilities. So maybe I'll continue on as I have over the past few years: sometimes I appear as a female, and sometimes I appear as a guy, albeit a feminine guy. Maybe this bothers people, but it is who and what i am.

Cindi Johnson

Andrea85

05-12-2010, 03:03 AM

I'm not going to point fingers, but it seems like some who have posted in this thread need to go back to their therapists for more help.

Just because you know everything to know about YOUR situation, doesn't mean you know jack about someone elses. Everyone is different and drugs react differently to everyone.

For instance, most everyone I know that has to take percocets for pain, it numbs them and some even go completely limp (whole body). Me, I can chew them up, swallow them, snort them (never done that), what ever, and they have no effect on me. Most drugs don't. But estrogen does.

So....

Unless you have indelible proof whether something will happen or won't happen 100% of the time, don't speak about it like it's certain.

This thread reminds me of a saying I've heard many times that has worked very well for the most part for me.

It is better to remain silent and be thought a (Fill in the blank) than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt

Kaitlyn Michele

05-12-2010, 08:34 AM

if you don't want peoples opinions why post at all and why read other posts?

its just information...saying you chew percocets and they don't bother you makes you no more or less credible than anyone else..it has nothing whatsoever to do with HRT.

if i can't share my own personal experience then what should i share?

Sharon

05-12-2010, 09:11 AM

if you don't want peoples opinions why post at all and why read other posts?

....if i can't share my own personal experience then what should i share?

Good question.... :strugglin

pamela_a

05-12-2010, 12:54 PM

if you don't want peoples opinions why post at all and why read other posts?

if i can't share my own personal experience then what should i share?

IME, many times questions like this are asked, not for answers, but to find validation that what they think or want to do is okay.

Karen564

05-12-2010, 02:51 PM

if you don't want peoples opinions why post at all and why read other posts?

its just information...

if i can't share my own personal experience then what should i share?

IME, many times questions like this are asked, not for answers, but to find validation that what they think or want to do is okay.

EXACTLY..!!!!

Maybe we should all just say F*** it, and let them find out the hard way..

After all, what do we know....:brolleyes:

TNRobin

05-12-2010, 07:38 PM

I've been reading and keeping up with this thread and really appreciate all of the discussion and even though I've read a lot about HRT I was surprised at the variation in experiences. I'm not on HRT and not sure that I will go there. I've got a lot of professional counseling and issues to resolve before I do, if I ever do, but I know that if I do decide to start HRT that it's going to be a permanent part of me with permanent effects.

So please keep sharing your own experiences as I'm sure that there are others out there that are reading for their own education.

Hugs,
Helen

GypsyKaren

05-13-2010, 04:43 AM

All we can do is give answers that are based on years of research and personal experience, but like Karen said, what do we know?

GK

Joan Merrie

05-13-2010, 05:30 AM

EXACTLY..!!!!

Maybe we should all just say F*** it, and let them find out the hard way..

After all, what do we know....:brolleyes:
That's my point. But we are all stupid and don't know 'nutin.:D:hugs::love:
After all what do I know, I'm just a trans:JoanMerrie:

Veronica_Jean

05-13-2010, 06:37 AM

All we can do is give answers that are based on years of research and personal experience, but like Karen said, what do we know?

GK

Actually several decades for some of us. Then again personal experience and knowledge has not been valued for decades either.

What a shame that many of these "knowledgeable professionals" were taught what they know by those that had real world experience since what was in the books was wrong.

BTW nice thread hijacking Misty.
Veronica

JoAnne Wheeler

05-13-2010, 07:55 AM

My little appendage is no friend to me - and the sooner it's gone, the better. I have always considered the "little friend" to be nothing more than a bothersome urine delivery device.

JoAnne Wheeler

Veronica Nowakowski

05-13-2010, 06:30 PM

Let me clear up a few things here (I really wish I wasn't absent from the site while this thread flared up). My intention here was to be a *******, not someone who goes back and forth from male to female - that's what I do now. My concern is 1) having kids and 2) I don't know what my eventual mate is going to want :/ I have since realized that artificial insemination through injecting my frozen sperm into my wife isn't going to cost tens of thousands of dollars like it costs with a surrogate mother. I posted this because I wanted to try to figure out what I wanted to tell my gender therapist about my goals. I'm still not sure what I want to do here.

I have certainly been told puritanical falsehoods (like how I was told in elementary that alcohol's called a downer because it makes you depressed). I found out from a trans support group that if you start getting issues with erections, it can be reversed, but the sterility remains. It's dangerous when you tell lies like that, because it can add to people ignoring all the good advice.

I also don't believe in thread hijacking (in the way atheists don't believe in God). This thread was my vehicle to asking the questions I needed to ask, but I think it silly to suggest that only I can have my questions answered in it. I do not own this thread.

This is just my opinion. What if you do get your much wanted breasts. You go to the beach or where ever, in male mode, are you going to keep your shirt on? how will you explain you boobs, Gynecomast? well those Male breasts look a whole lot different than female breasts.

I don't plan on going to the beach in male mode if I were to transition. I have gynecomastia anyways, so I keep my shirt on just the same.

Is the one I find a bit disturbing and indicates that the OP either hasn't done her homework, or is living in fantasy land. I think if she was making an informed decision - aware of the risks, she should be allowed to make it - but... this doesn't sound informed to me.

I was doing my homework by asking. The thread wasn't any final decision that I was going to take this action or that action. You have to find out what's going on first.

True, that. She has a doctor, and a therapist. So why'd she ask around here? Was she looking for opinions or affirmation? Her first response to a few posts tells me it was the latter, and I haven't got a problem with that, or with whatever anyone does with their own body. But ask a question, and yer gonna get folk's opinions. And since the title of this forum starts with the word transsexual, whattya think the prevailing opinion will be? Actually, Veronica recieved a pretty well varied spectrum of responses. I don't know how ya get "snotty" out of the ones cautioning her about HRT, which, even with a doctor's and therapist's help, is still a pretty serious undertaking. She seemed to be asking about the consequences concerning her penis. She asked for opinions. She got'em. You and her are taking a path that is a bit different than most here.

Have you read my posts? I was disappointed to find out what I did, but then I started discussing alternatives. Does that suggest that I was just looking for affirmations? I see I've been painted quite poorly in my absence.

May i ask do you have a partner now, because if you have hrt and change to look more like a woman it may affect your chances in the future to get a partner, just a thought to throw in there.

I do not, I haven't in ages. I know what problems that may cause, which is the primary issue I'm having in figuring out what I want to do. However, the person I am meant to be with may be a confirmed lesbian at this point in time as well.

I'm not sure that implants would be enough for you, as without any breast fat they will in my none professional opinion look real, also you would still have male nipples..

I don't know either, though I do have pretty much A cups from my gynecomastia.. not sure if that will be enough or not for the D's that would be proportional :/

With the attitude that it is all or nothing and that if you are not in the all category than where does that leave the women who cannot have surgery for medical reasons? Are they not real in the opinion of those in this forum? And what message are we giving them by taking that position?

Yeah, that's kinda how some of the posts were making me feel, in particular the one which set me off, and which was deleted. And no it's not the information, it's the judgmental attitude that some posters have had.

Personally I agree with the probable majority ----- Do NOT go near any HRT hormones unless you are completely serious about transitioning and living as a female. I would rather die than live one day as a (pretend) man.

I never said I didn't want to live as a woman, I said I wasn't sure about losing my penis.

In finale, I may decide to make the full transition..... I can certainly go ******* in between. I'm a bit irritated when some people decided that I am not woman enough to be discussing this, presuming that my hesitation had to do with me not really wanting to be a woman rather than perhaps having other demons to deal with. Others, who had the same opinion of those people, but who haven't been judgemental are quite appreciated by contrast. If I quoted you and responded in rebuttal does not mean you're in the earlier group, but clarification only.

Stephanie Anne

05-13-2010, 06:45 PM

This thread makes me almost feel bad for having breasts without hormones. Then I realize I don't care and skip on my merry way. And no, I can't go out in public shirtless without feeling naked and exposed so there.

And I am going the slow boat route to hrt because I tried it the other way, tried to rush things, did spiro for a month, flipped the f' out, had an anxiety and tear filled breakdown, and purged.

I guess it is what works for you but I have had to come to grips with my own lack of self acceptance before I decided I am ready to be who I am. Now I am at the point where being accepted by others takes a back seat to me being ok with me. Now that I am ok with that, I am ok with being a woman and transitioning.

on a side note... *******?!? really. What is to me like a certain word begging with n and ending with a savage beating in certain neighborhoods.

Veronica_Jean

05-14-2010, 05:52 AM

I also don't believe in thread hijacking (in the way atheists don't believe in God). This thread was my vehicle to asking the questions I needed to ask, but I think it silly to suggest that only I can have my questions answered in it. I do not own this thread.

If it were a case of asking additional questions or seeking related information I agree. Lack of response from the original poster can take on many meanings. Glad you decided to follow up.

In finale, I may decide to make the full transition..... I can certainly go ******* in between. I'm a bit irritated when some people decided that I am not woman enough to be discussing this, presuming that my hesitation had to do with me not really wanting to be a woman rather than perhaps having other demons to deal with. Others, who had the same opinion of those people, but who haven't been judgemental are quite appreciated by contrast. If I quoted you and responded in rebuttal does not mean you're in the earlier group, but clarification only.

I truly believe we are all seeking our own level of comfort. That means that each of us must find what is right for us. There is no such thing as a single standard for everyone.

I have seem some take steps that are dangerous for their health and well being... sometimes ending in death or close to it. It is because of these experiences that I (and possibly others) express caution and most of us are trying to prevent seeing others follow that path.

Good luck with finding yours. :hugs:

Veronica