If you really want acceptance? Maybe you better start now.

[FionaAlexis]

Time and time again I read posts that include the message that things would be better if only I had the acceptance of the broader society.

In my opinion this is probably the Golden Age for gaining acceptance of your chosen lifestyle. I think if you surveyed the general community in most Western countries about the ‘acceptability’ of different lifestyles – the almost universal, even generic, answer now would go someting like – ‘so long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else its totally fine’. So the level of tolerance is high.

In my own case I don’t openly promote myself as TG because I’ve never wanted to be recognized as a tranny. And I’ve never wanted to be part of some gender blurred, androgynous existence – in fact it would be my worst nightmare. So I have never seen ‘acceptance’ of me as a tranny as the key to my happiness.

But more and more we see a few individuals gaining acceptance for themselves in different ways. I guess mostly at the transsexual end of the spectrum in the case if the TG spectrum. But if acceptance is the key to your happiness then why aren’t you moving towards that goal? And I don’t want anyone to read that as a challenge – rather its a naïve question.

For individuals it would seem to me the time has never been better?

Fiona xx

[April]

Hello Fiona,

I agree, Fiona, the time has never been better. To gain acceptance one must be willing to take the risk of disclosure. I've been out to friends and family for a number of years now. On the whole this has been a very impowering and positive experience for me. I now have the freedom to be who I am. The truth does set you free. In my humble opinion most people today will accept you for who you are. They may not understand it, but the majority will accept you, especially if you are not 'ashamed' about being part of the TG spectrum. I've had many TG girls tell me how lucky I am etc. My response is always that we make our own luck. I'm not advocating here that everyone take the road of my choice. I've heard hundreds of reasons why a person can't go down the road I did, and those reasons were all valid for each of those individuals. I just wanted to respond that I do believe the time is right. If acceptance is the key to ones happiness then one must take the risk of disclosures to ultimately find happiness. Risk = Rewards

Best Wishes,

April

[FionaAlexis]

Hello April,

Thank you for your response.

Well done! I'm glad that you've crossed over and found acceptance and tolerance.

This is your first post - I'm honoured that you've selected this thread. I'm afraid you'll be the only one as I have a bad reputation around here - but I'm sure they'll forgive you. ;)

Fiona xx

[Natalie x]

It's a good question, Fiona.

I think you are right in saying that western society, in general, is ready to accept the right of any individual to live their life how they choose, just as long as it doesn't affect anybody else adversely.

As April said, the path for one person is not the path for another, and many of our sisters can never step out into the world because of family, social or personal reasons. However, no-one should complain about a lack of acceptance if they haven't first tried to gain that acceptance by opening up to the people they want to be accepted by. (This paragraph is a mess, I hope I'm saying what I want to say.)

It needs to be said, though, that although society in general is tolerant, there are very big groups of individuals who feel so threatened by gender issues (maybe because they have something to prove) that a lone tranny can be in real danger if they find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I am gradually getting out into the world, introducing Natalie to my family and friends in a slow and sensitive way, and I am walking out more and more "en femme". But I am under no illusion, I can only do it because of my circumstances. I am blessed with an understanding family, friends and employers, not everyone is so fortunate.

[FionaAlexis]

Natalie,

Thank you very much for your response.

I’m glad that you are moving ahead and are ‘blessed’ with good people.

I believe that you are correct that ‘acceptance’ requires action not passive waiting for it to happen. I also agree that you can’t complain it doesn’t exist unless you have tried. And if you are not able or prepared to make the moves then you ought not to torment yourself that somehow society is letting you down.

I accept that there are places and environments were trannies are still in some danger.

At the macro level while some aspects of the gender boundaries are a bit fuzzier now than in the 1950s – I doubt very much they will ever get to the point where they are so diminished that men in female clothes will become commonplace. And not common enough for the most sensitive of us to feel free to dress as we wish. It also seems to me gender boundaries are self correcting. I think Chinese society of the 60s and 70s was pretty androgynous in many ways – but the Chinese seem to have quickly reverted to well defined gender lines.

Fiona xx

[DragonLotus]

I agree with the first post and the responses.

In some ways, it seems like western societties are right on the verge of becoming tolerant. At the same time, places like the U.S. can seem puritanical and progressive at the same time! :confused:

Everybody does walk their own path and while some can afford to take the risk, others simply cannot (I feel for them). While I am more of a "here I am, deal with it" kind of person whenever possible, I also do not have a family who's lives would be affected by my choice to reveal something about myself that was traditionally considered taboo.

Mind you, I'm a GG...but I've got plenty of things about me that are taboo! I choose to reveal them to the people I think will be least shook up over it. Liberty comes one step at a time. Some folks really do prefer to sleep their lives away in the Matrix instead of taking the red pill and seeing the world for the vast kaleidoscope it is.

And Fiona, I've read some of your posts and had to slap my knee in honor of your candid views! Especially when you know they are going to be unpopular. As long as you're not hating on someone in particular or causing trouble just because, I say rock the boat sometimes! Healthy, vigorous debate helps up-and-coming communites expand, define and establish themselves. :thumbsup:

[gennee]

Fiona:
You make an excellent point. The reason I've come out to myself only is that my decision would affect so many friends and family and my livelihood. I'm very comfortable with my decision to stay closeted. There's no stress at all. Perhaps someday I'll come out to my spouse. In the meantime, I'm a happy and content cd.


Gennee :)

[MonaSmith]

I totally agree with you honey,

I am bored of people still hiding in their closets, whining about not being accepted. Acceptance only comes to those who seek it. I have been slowly coming out to the people around me and and have been getting more femme in my everyday appearance and general manner, and I have had nothing but support so far. There will come a time when someone isn't happy about it and I will have to stand up for myself, but that is okay, because some things are worth sticking your neck out for, and this is definitely one of them. With my family, friends and workmates behind me I feel good about myself, and my situation, for the first time in my life and it will take a very powerful force to make me backtrack now and stop being who I am.

All minority groups have had to stand up for their rights, and we are no different. None of those minorities did it by staying at home and grumbling to themselves about how unfair 'society' is.

Mona xx.

[Jamie M]

Personally I think it's very much more about the individual's confidence level rather than one of the community accepting you.

But there comes a problem when you start talking about "the community" . As we all know people as a whole will tolerate almost anything as long as it doesn't break any laws but an individual may well react differently. An individual when faced with something that they know nothing about will scoff and mock what they don't understand and it's this reaction that some are afraid of.

It's also a question of numbers. One redneck/chav out on the street probably wouldn't give a lone TG a second glance , sure they might think something to themselves but i doubt they'd make any trouble. But a group of reds/chavs now that's different.

So maybe the time has never been better so far , but to say that the time is right or that it will never get any better well i think that's a falacy.

[FionaAlexis]

I agree with the first post and the responses.
Some folks really do prefer to sleep their lives away in the Matrix instead of taking the red pill and seeing the world for the vast kaleidoscope it is.


Well I wouldn’t mind if that was the case….there must be a lilac pill because...

Unfortunately the mindset is ‘It’s not me with the issue. It’s society that’s hemming me in.’ without having tested that [or even passively accepting that as a fact] - then we are just going to create torment for ourselves.

Thank you for your comments – very much appreciated. I’m not even trying to the rock boat merely stimulate some discussion and state my views. I’m not really interested in panties and bras to be honest.


Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

In the meantime, I'm a happy and content cd.

Good for you! And never be tempted to beat yourself up about it.

[FionaAlexis]

With my family, friends and workmates behind me I feel good about myself, and my situation, for the first time in my life and it will take a very powerful force to make me backtrack now and stop being who I am.

All minority groups have had to stand up for their rights, and we are no different. None of those minorities did it by staying at home and grumbling to themselves about how unfair 'society' is.

Mona xx.


Congratulations Mona. And yes attitudes only change by people moving the the boundaries.

[FionaAlexis]

So maybe the time has never been better so far , but to say that the time is right or that it will never get any better well i think that's a falacy.

Thanks Julia.

Well I think the environment is ripe and the time is right - whether things change or not - doesn't that depend on if and who moves the boundaries?

[April]

This is your first post - I'm honoured that you've selected this thread. I'm afraid you'll be the only one as I have a bad reputation around here - but I'm sure they'll forgive you. ;)



Hello Fiona,

Oh my God, I can't believe I responded to a woman with a bad reputation. What is my mother going to think? :D

Getting serious for a moment, I don't think the lack of responses has anything to do with your reputation. If you had posted something like "What color panties are we all wearing this evening" you might have been overwhelmed with responses. :)

Ok, I'm going to shut up now before my reputation starts going south. :thumbsdn:

April

The more people come out, the less it will be an issue. If we are ashamed of ourselves, how the hell can we expect the rest of the world not to be ashamed of us? —Martina Navratilova

[LaceLuvr's GG]

I've enjoyed very much hearing the responses to this thread. I live in a very small town in Arkansas.. and if you want to talk about "community" that brings up a very good topic.

I live in an area that is prejudice to everything. There are racial issues, gay issues, religious issues... it drives me nuts!! I am a brick wall to them all. It wouldn't/ doesn't bother me at all to go shopping with my CDSO and boldly talk in the middle of the lingerie section about what I would like to see him in. I know the stares, sniggers, and whispers would start... would I care??? Absolutely not!!! I have commented several times to my CDSO that I feel sorry for the women out there that don't know what they're missing. I have opened a whole new chapter in my life with him that has made me the most happiest person I have ever been. I believe if you're accepting of yourself.. who cares what others think??

Prejudice has been around for thousands of years. There was a time when blacks were considered outcast... when you could never openly tell someone that you were gay.... the time is coming girls. Soon, CDing will be the norm just as the issues that I have mentioned... if you choose to take the stand!!!!

There's my opinion... hope I haven't offended anyone... that's just what I think. (Wow.. I feel like I've just given a political speech... maybe I should run for office... LOL)

[FionaAlexis]

Prejudice has been around for thousands of years. There was a time when blacks were considered outcast... when you could never openly tell someone that you were gay.... the time is coming girls. Soon, CDing will be the norm just as the issues that I have mentioned... if you choose to take the stand!!!!

There's my opinion... hope I haven't offended anyone... that's just what I think. (Wow.. I feel like I've just given a political speech... maybe I should run for office... LOL)

I'll vote for you. We have something in common. I grew up in a small town in Northern Ireland.

Thank you for raising the issue of racial and, particularly, gay prejudice.

The Gay community had a very simple clear message – we’re guys who love guys. There were no qualifications. I think the transgender message is too complicated and full off ‘buts’.

I want to present as a female and be accepted as female but….

I’m not like her because she wants to change sex…
I’m not like her because I’m heterosexual…
I’m not like her because I’m quite happy being male…

Etc. etc.

In fact I doubt we could get the pronouns consistent.

Fiona xx

[darcyann]

Hello

I prefer to stay closet because of situation atm. I do intend to become uncloset when the time is right. Society I think it accepts it more than anytime in history, but I do not see society a 100% accepting it.


Love

Darcy Ann

[Melissa A.]

Well, all this talk about society and acceptance is all well and good. And I agree with all of you. But outing oneself, on a concrete, real, basis depends on where you live, who your friends are, where you work(in many cases THE most important consideration), your family, and other personal considerations.

For me? I don't give a rat's rear end who knows that I am a crossdresser. But I have no desire to make people who know me as a guy uncomfortable, by showing up as Melissa where I know that won't be welcome. But like I said, If anyone finds out, I really don't care. Some people I know know about me because I was found out when younger. They probably wish they didn't know, but most of them realize that I'm the same person I was before they knew.

As far as the public at large is concerned, I don't really care, but also don't want to get my ass kicked on a regular basis.

Hugs,

Melissa :)

[Helana]

I want to present as a female and be accepted as female but….

I’m not like her because she wants to change sex…
I’m not like her because I’m heterosexual…
I’m not like her because I’m quite happy being male…
I'm not like her because she masterbates when dressed...
Etc. etc.

In fact I doubt we could get the pronouns consistent.

Fiona

Good point Fiona. Because we all arrived at this point through our own secretative, individualistic paths we all like to think we are somehow unique and different from our other sisters. I think this is not seeing the wood for the trees. Remove the details and we all share common values and feelings and have to deal with the same issues.

If some people can go out in public and be themsleves and receive widespread acceptance then there is no reason why you cannot either. We are our own worst enemy and are very good at making excuses for oursleves about why we cannot integrate our feminine values into our everyday existence.

There will always be those who will oppose us and will attempt to repress us, but that is true for all minority groups and it has not stopped them from proclaiming their right to be themselves.

We have to fight our own fears first if we ever want to find happiness.

If you think you have it hard, think of yourself as a black, lesbian, Muslim woman living in the center of Redneck and then wonder how you could ever possibily show yourself in public. ;)

[FionaAlexis]

Hello

.........I do intend to become uncloset when the time is right. Society I think it accepts it more than anytime in history, but I do not see society a 100% accepting it.


If that's what you want I hope your time comes soon, Darcy Ann. No you won't get 100% acceptance.

[FionaAlexis]

But I have no desire to make people who know me as a guy uncomfortable, by showing up as Melissa where I know that won't be welcome. But like I said, If anyone finds out, I really don't care.

Thanks Melissa - That's a pragmatic approach and not confronting.

I haven't been seen dressed by those who know I'm TG - well maybe only unwittingly. But you are still free to talk about it when the subject comes up as it seems to in these days of reality TV.

Fiona xx

[ChristineRenee]

Well Fiona...I hope that I will be doing exactly that now. I have been a totallly closeted CD/TG for 42 years. I have been out exactly one time and encountered no one in the process and was still scared sh1tless! But at the time I felt that I HAD to do it...not because others have either...but rather to begin the process of overcoming my own fears.

That has been the focal point of all of this for me...living day to day with the fear...anymore it hasn't been fear of discovery nearly as much of fear of rejection by those who may or may not know me or especially who know me only as my male self.

I think this is such an individual thing really. I would never...EVER...criticize anyone here who didn't get out. Everyone not only has their own comfort level with this, but also it is not possible for many given their situation in life. It would be a lot different if there was more general acceptance of this by society...by the cold hard truth is we still have an awful lot of prejudice out there...even in this more enlightened time.

I also agree with Holly that many times people only see the end result and not all the preparation time that has preceeded it. Yes...I have been closeted all these years but not necessarily of my own choosing. It so happens that while I have held Chrissie back in accordance with my wife's wishes...I don't know that I was emotionally ready to start the process of bringing Chrissie out to the general public just like that anyway. This has all been a process for me...a very slow and deliberate progression. It was that way with the decision about doing HRT. I agonized about that for years before deciding to go ahead...and even then my male side was going like "Whoa partner....I'm not sure I can handle THIS!" With me anyway...relatively few major decisions that apply to my CD/TG life have come very quickly...and certainly not easily. Many were deferred until after I retired and was not in the public eye on a day to day basis. I now see the fallacy in that as well. I mean yes...I no longer am working...but I am still out in public every day so DUH...not like I'm hiding from the world here. I think wearing makeup now in public and while in drab has been another testing of the waters for me. Maybe I should just be jumping right in ...I don't know. I just know that this seems to be the right way to do this for me. I would never speak for others as to what they should do. Another thing I don't want to do is slam dunk the ball either after the score. Everyone has their own level of progression. Mine has been ongoing for the majority of my life. I won't be breaking any major ground relative to others when I finally debut Chrissie to the outside world...I certainly am well aware of that. But I can tell you for a fact that when I finally do it...it will be a triumph for me of major proportions. As a very famous man (Sir Winston Churchill) once proclaimed..."This is not the end...it is not even the beginning of the end...but it is the end of the beginning."

So here is to the future my sisters....and the end of the beginning.

Excellent thread Fiona...thanks for starting it and for the opportunity to contribute my 2 cents to it.;)

[FionaAlexis]

Good point Fiona. Because we all arrived at this point through our own secretative, individualistic paths we all like to think we are somehow unique and different from our other sisters. I think this is not seeing the wood for the trees. Remove the details and we all share common values and feelings and have to deal with the same issues.



Thanks Helana. My partner is trying get her head around the different labels and definitions. We've just had a UK tranny, Nadia, on our Big Brother reality show who when asked if she was transexual - said something like "i'm not really comfortable with that term..." - so it becomes really difficult for the average person with no real interest in trannydom.

Fiona xx

[Helana]

Fiona

Yes there is way too much confusion and labeling and not enough discussion and understanding. And the average person, who has an attention span of two minutes, is not going to learn anything if we cannot come up with simple clear messages. Its kind of like branding a product, people need to gasp what the product is about quickly so that they can get on with their "busy" lives.

As for Nadia as a post op TS, I know many TS want to move on and forget about their TG past, but this is not helpful to the TG community. I think any TG in the spotlight needs to be mindful that they represent a TG group trying to break through society's intolerance. They may not have choosen to be a torch-bearer but they are nonetheless.

[FionaAlexis]

Everyone has their own level of progression. Mine has been ongoing for the majority of my life. I won't be breaking any major ground relative to others when I finally debut Chrissie to the outside world...I certainly am well aware of that. But I can tell you for a fact that when I finally do it...it will be a triumph for me of major proportions. As a very famous man (Sir Winston Churchill) once proclaimed..."This is not the end...it is not even the beginning of the end...but it is the end of the beginning."


Thank you for your comments Chrissie… and thank you for your excellent post.

I found it very interesting as it highlights again how each of us takes their own path and their own pace. You seem to have planned things out? And did see going on HRT as part of the preparation for going to the next step in coming out? Or a quite separate decision on feminization?

When you do go out, do you think it will be straight out in your hometown environment? Or will you try somewhere else first?

Fiona xx

[ChristineRenee]

Thank you for your comments Chrissie… and thank you for your excellent post.

I found it very interesting as it highlights again how each of us takes their own path and their own pace. You seem to have planned things out? And did see going on HRT as part of the preparation for going to the next step in coming out? Or a quite separate decision on feminization?

When you do go out, do you think it will be straight out in your hometown environment? Or will you try somewhere else first?

Fiona xxOh it will be in my hometown for sure Fiona.....but probably away from my central area...at least for awhile. Penny hasn't said this directly...but I think she wants us to bond with our new neighbors for awhile and have them know my male side well first...Chrissie perhaps may come later...in her view that is.

While I can appreciate that approach...and will probably go along with it initially...I really feel that eventually they will need to "meet" Chrissie one way or the other. To only know my male side...whether you like it or not...means that you are really only connecting with part of a person. Heck...I can't even get my wife to come out of her denial of me as Chrissie and I have been "working" on this ever since we have been together.

As for the planning aspect of all this. Well Fiona...to be honest...I don't know that I have ever planned too many things in my life really. I leave that to my wife who likes to think about a 1000 things at a time and plan years into the future. I guess that is the by product of her being a teacher for 30 years. Me? Well...I live day to day and sometimes hour to hour really. HRT had been something I had been thinking about for a number of years before I finally went ahead with it...yet I don't think it was something that was overly planned on my part. I think I had just gotten frustrated enough with looking at the physical "man in the mirror" and realizing that the contents inside just didn't match the outside. It was a very personal decision...and a very difficult one to make. While I told my wife at the time...I did not ask permission or really even for her opinion. I knew the stakes involved too. I knew that I was perhaps laying a foundation here for a lot of bitterness and resentment on her part...if not even eventual legal separation or divorce. To my wife's credit, she has dealt with this very well...though in her mind she still sees this as "changing the rules." I can't agree since for one thing we never actually sat down at any time in our relationship prior to or after our marriage to hammer out any "rules." Plus, I have been upfront about who I am and what I am from the very beginning. Unfortunately I guess, for her, this is the by product of making a decision to marry a CD/TG and accepting going in, all that accompanies that. As I told her often, you married me knowing what you were getting into in advance. If you didn't want to deal with CD issues...then you never should have agreed to marry me. I feel that I have always...ALWAYS...been honest and upfront with her with regard to this. Yet I wonder...often...if she maybe has not been honest with me...and particularly, with herself. Maybe getting married again...at that point in time...was a more important consideration for her than dealing with this CD issue. If so...that again is something that she has to recognize and come to grips with. I cannot do that for her....I can only be the person that I truly am.

Hope this helps give you a little more knowledge and perspective on my situation Fiona...again...great thread girlfriend!;) :thumbsup:

[FionaAlexis]

Hope this helps give you a little more knowledge and perspective on my situation

Yes, brilliant - gives me a good understanding - thanks Chrissie. I hope everything falls in place for you.

Fiona xx

[Barbguy]

i use to work out of town or state a lot and i would drive all day dressed and go shoping in the evenings i would walk the halls at motels (the staff at motels loved the onisty but i would go into almost anywhere dressed and yes if i didn't take enough time to do makeup right i would get a strange look or two but nobody ever aproched me when dressed they would smile and i would smile back whether they knew or not didn't bother me because they didn't know me from anyone els i was doing what i love to do get dressed up and go shoping for new clothes so you cant say we are not excepted if you don't go out. i would not do much talking because i have a deeper voice but when i did talk it was soft as possable to where they could hear me. but this all come to a end in may when i was told i wasn't needed right now do to a slowdown in people buying new homes so i have been depressed and confussed latly. i sure hope things get better for me.

[joni-alice]

Well for activism,
What about joining with the "men in Skirts" movement. I know there are differences in agenda (guess there is a pun there) but minorities have to stick together to get anything done.
I actually was reintroduced by the Men in Skirts. I saw an article about a protest march they had in NYC, looked them up on the Web;...and knew that was for me (you highlanders or all you Brits should know them well)-- that is until I quickly found the CD channels...and even hesitatingly purchased a few first articles of clothing last week.
Maybe one would have to pose as a "man in skirt" for a while,,,but honey, consider the truth...no different in the ends (another pun?) between men in skirts and CDs in skirts. ...
If skirts are accepted, then one can up the prize (so to speak).

Just heard this Holly Near song last night:
"we are a gentle angry people and we are singing, singing for our lives
....we are gay and straight together and we are singing, singing..."
Hugs to all,
joni

[FionaAlexis]

but this all come to a end in may when i was told i wasn't needed right now do to a slowdown in people buying new homes so i have been depressed and confussed latly. i sure hope things get better for me.

Yes, personal problems and trauma does tend to put TG and dressing activities on the back burner for me also.

Hope your housing market picks up soon and you get some new work.

Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

Maybe one would have to pose as a "man in skirt" for a while,,,but honey, consider the truth...no different in the ends (another pun?) between men in skirts and CDs in skirts. ...
If skirts are accepted, then one can up the prize (so to speak).


Don't know much about 'men in skirts' but I assume they are just guys who want to wear skirts as normal male attire. I like the thinking here and it would certainly help some of us out.

But I wouldn't be jumping on board.

Fiona xx