Lesbian or not?

[~Michelle~]

I hear that often; I'm a hetero crossdresser, want to feel like a woman, I prefer having a relationship with women, so I must be lesbian.

What is your idea about that?

And how about people who had a sex change and lived as a woman for many years, do they often develop the need to be with a man (natural for most biologic women), even if they wanted to stay far away from them before the transition?

[Kaz]

Yeah,

hetero too, but my thoughts have kind of changed over time... these days when in Kaz mode, or Kaz "think" I have certain "fantasies"... When in bloke mode I have no desire at all and so I am pretty sure I ain't gay, though some on this forum would question that (from other threads)!

All round I love all things women... and so could be termed lesbian in Kaz mode...

These days I am less bothered with the tags... there are some people I am attracted to for lots of different reasons...

Kaz xx

[ReineD]

The term "lesbian" describes not only an attraction to a female, but also the gender of the person who is attracted: another female. So for a MtF to say that she IS a lesbian would be akin to her saying she is a GG?

I understand that using the term "heterosexual" in your case would imply that you are and identify purely as a male, which is problematic for most CDs. But, IMO it would be more accurate for a MtF to say that she identifies as a lesbian, not that she is one, just as she can say she identifies as a female.

There is a more accurate term that describes an attraction to females without infering the gender of the person experiencing the attraction: "gynephilia". Its counter part, for men or women who are attracted to males but who do not wish to label themselves as being any particular gender is "androphilia".

[Rianna Humble]

I understand what Reine is saying, but as she pointed out, the determinant is the gender - not the genetics.

At the moment, I am classed as a male by the majority of the population, however, my aim is transition.

At what point would I cease to "identify as" and actually become?

[AllieSF]

I agree with ReineD with one exception. I believe that a MtF TS is a woman and, therefore, if she is attracted to women she would be classified as a lesbian.

[Elizabeth 66]

Allie

I have to agree, once a MtF transsexual has transitioned then they are in themselves and by law a female, so hence if they were attracted to woman alone, then they would be a lesbian.

I have also done a little research on some medical journals, and it has been recorded that after a period of time on HRT some transsexuals sexual preferences have altered. but how true this is i don't know, as the information is off the web.

[Angiemead12]

Im only attracted to women dressed or not dressed, but do have fantasies with ********.

[Rebecca Petersen]

If you are saying you are a Lesbian, then would you not have to be a GG? Would guess, if you "feel" like a woman when dressed, then it's possible to "feel" like a Lesbian when attracted to a woman, but since you're not a GG then I would say you're a plain old heterosexual?
And, the concept of feeling like a woman when dressed is also debatable, since how would anyone other than a GG know how it feels to feel like a woman.:battingeyelashes:
I think I confused myself on that one.

[Soriya]

Uuuggggg, more labels in a society built off labels!

[~Michelle~]

Soriya

Yeah, I know exactly how you feel. The main reason why I posted these questions is because I've noticed a few times that some people who crossdress label themselves as "lesbian" and I was just curious how they got that idea.

[marny]

i didn't start out with the idea of being a lesbian. I have always been with women.

Surrounded.

Not sure if that is why i am what I am. Don't take it wrong. I love being me. I wish I could be more girl in my world but I know I'm lucky with how I live now.

definatly lesbian at heart! marny

[Froggy's Angel]

I do not like all the labels either.
BUT, my partner has always said that he is a lesbian trapped in a mans body. :heehee:
So when she is en femme, she is a Lesbian.
I don't think that the person HAS to be genetically female.
When we are out and she is dressed and we are kissing in the bar, I am sure people think we are a lesbian couple.
And that is fine.
I am bi, and I don't need a different label just because I have now also incorporated Trans people into who I am attracted to, in my opinion. :D

[Elle1946]

I am a guy and I like women only, and I like to dress like a female. For whatever it makes me, I am it.

[ellenwannabe]

I was raised with 3 sisters and worked all my life with mostly women as an RN and just feel like one of the girls but haven't thought of it as you've suggested - interesting thought though - Ellen

[insearchofme]

I'm like Elle, a guy who loves women. When you add the Y factor that leaves me out.

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

Terms like Lesbian and heterosexual and homosexual and all the others out there have to all be taken with a grain of salt, they're such new terms in the realm of human history that they really have little to no true significance except that which is placed upon them by the user.

Those who are non-TS crossdressers who say they are a lesbian are really using it more as a shorthand way of saying "when presenting as a woman, I am still attracted only to women. "

As far as people who have had a sex change developing a need to be with a type of partner that they may not have considered before, that does happen sometimes, I've spoken to some TS women who have said they were interested in women before they transitioned and developed an attraction to men as they went through the transition process. But the big reason for this, I believe, is because of the hormone changes, not unlike the sexual awakening a teenager goes through during adolescence.

[Rianna Humble]

If you are saying you are a Lesbian, then would you not have to be a GG?

Are you saying that trans women cannot be lesbian?

[BRANDYJ]

If you are saying you are a Lesbian, then would you not have to be a GG? Would guess, if you "feel" like a woman when dressed, then it's possible to "feel" like a Lesbian when attracted to a woman, but since you're not a GG then I would say you're a plain old heterosexual?
And, the concept of feeling like a woman when dressed is also debatable, since how would anyone other than a GG know how it feels to feel like a woman.:battingeyelashes:
I think I confused myself on that one.

I have to agree Rebecca. I'm confused too! lol

Let me just say that the way I'm wired now, that IF I was a GG, I "think" I'd be a lesbian since the way I'm wired now, i am not attracted to males at all.

[ReineD]

At the moment, I am classed as a male by the majority of the population, however, my aim is transition. At what point would I cease to "identify as" and actually become?


I believe that a MtF TS is a woman and, therefore, if she is attracted to women she would be classified as a lesbian.

My initial response addressed sexual orientation from a CDs viewpoint, not a TS, who is fundamentally a woman. So a TS would not be misleading anyone when she says she IS a lesbian. :2c:


Uuuggggg, more labels in a society built off labels!

Lol. I spoke to my SO about this thread and she told me about yet another label!. "Quad-sexual", which would identify a transgendered (bi-gendered) bi-sexual describing her sexuality in both her guy and gal modes. :D


EDIT
(re the quad-sexual) ... or perhaps a bi-sexual squared? :)

EDIT 2
... Ooooh, I know! A CD in femme mode who is is attracted to women can say she is "Transbian"?

[Misty is Kindafem]

sheeesh!

It's always the hets who chime in with this Lesbian thing.

I know that straight guys think it's cute to say they're a lesbo trapped in a male body, but I would think that this crowd would be just a teeny bit more enlightened.

Let's end the debate here shall we?

Lesbians are women. Women have vaginas. A Lesbian is a homosexual woman.

A man who finds himself attracted to women is NOT homosexual. He is by definition heterosexual. If he enjoys wearing women's clothes or even presenting as a woman or if he believes himself to be a woman, he is still not a lesbian. There is one vital component missing; a vagina. I don't care how you frame it, a man is not and cannot be a lesbian no matter how much lipstick you put on him.

This might be the silliest argument I've ever jumped into.

-Misty

[Soriya]

Lol. I spoke to my SO about this thread and she told me about yet another label!. "Quad-sexual", which would identify a transgendered (bi-gendered) bi-sexual describing her sexuality in both her guy and gal modes. :D


LOL Reine,

What is the other term, 'Pan-sexual'?

I don't know, I view things differently overall now with everything and I remove labels society gives things, including sexual preference. I like to think of it more as one soul loving another soul, despite the physical structure of a body. I am a spiritual person and view the human body as just a vehichle anyway. Kind of like the love story in Avatar. To me, it was about two souls falling in love despite their physical differences and they showed that at the end when she saves him in the trailer when he is in his human body dying.

It's just my opinion but to me, if I am to use the labels we have in our society, I view it as when in female mode, being attracted to a male is a heterosexual thought process and not homosexual. We are presenting as a woman, feeling like a woman, and thinking like a woman. Thus if in female mode, if you apply the aforementioned thought process when dressed, if your still attracted to female with the mind thinking like a woman, then sure, it could be considered a lesbian thought process...using the lables and descriptions we have.

Personally, I could care less what it's called. Just be happy in what "you" like. :)


XO

Soriya

[Nigella]

Wikipedia

Lesbian is a term most widely used in the English language to describe sexual and romantic desire between females

This, IMHO means that the following groups of this forum can, if they so wish, legitimately call themselves Lesbians, the Genetic Females and the Male to Female Transsexuals.

Everyone else is just jumping on the bandwagon.

[sissy renee]

Michelle,

i am comfused as i love my wife and only want to be with her? i love dressing, use femme deoderant, shaved clean from the neck down and wear panties 24/7/365. i also feel content to serve as the wife in our relationship. Maybe i am a lesbian.

sissy renee

:love:

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Actually Misty I don't think thats the end of the debate..

vagina's and penises are certainly one way to "define" gender, and its also the most accepted..but alot of folks including me can't accept that and choose to define ourselves as women because our brain's tell us so...we know this in a way that isnt able to be understood by many so the burden of proof tends to be with the transsexual..

All i can do is can tell you is that i'm a woman, and i have a penis right now.

i'm not ignoring the reality of genetics and other body parts..just making a statement that I know is true to me.

[Peri Bender]

Let's end the debate here shall we?

Lesbians are women. Women have vaginas. A Lesbian is a homosexual woman.

A man who finds himself attracted to women is NOT homosexual. He is by definition heterosexual. If he enjoys wearing women's clothes or even presenting as a woman or if he believes himself to be a woman, he is still not a lesbian. There is one vital component missing; a vagina. I don't care how you frame it, a man is not and cannot be a lesbian no matter how much lipstick you put on him.

This might be the silliest argument I've ever jumped into.

-Misty

Well said. I needed to hear that!!

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

This might be the silliest argument I've ever jumped into.

-Misty

Misty, considering how respectful and friendly our discussion was in the "passing/not" thread, I am surprised and disappointed at your tone in this. Like you said, the people on this board are a little more enlightened. After all, you do know the definition of the term Transgendered, do you not?

You said yourself in that other thread that you support anyone who says their penis does not define them, and yet here you are insisting that people define themselves and their sexuality based on their penis or lack thereof!

[Barbara Dugan]

I dont think I am a Lesbian I like guys dress or in drab...I think that make just gay:hugs:

[Vicki-Z]

My initial response addressed sexual orientation from a CDs viewpoint, not a TS, who is fundamentally a woman. So a TS would not be misleading anyone when she says she IS a lesbian. :2c:



Lol. I spoke to my SO about this thread and she told me about yet another label!. "Quad-sexual", which would identify a transgendered (bi-gendered) bi-sexual describing her sexuality in both her guy and gal modes. :D


EDIT
(re the quad-sexual) ... or perhaps a bi-sexual squared? :)

EDIT 2
... Ooooh, I know! A CD in femme mode who is is attracted to women can say she is "Transbian"?


I'm soooo.......confused Reine! :lol2:


Vicki :hugs:

[Misty is Kindafem]

I dont think I am a Lesbian I like guys dress or in drab...I think that make just gay:hugs:

...and hot!

-Misty


Misty,
You said yourself in that other thread that you support anyone who says their penis does not define them, and yet here you are insisting that people define themselves and their sexuality based on their penis or lack thereof!

Okay, point taken. I didn't mean for the tone of that post to be so surly.

Despite the apparent contradiction, I'm not really talking about identification on this one. I realize that many of us here aren't exactly in love with our genitals, I know I'm not, so I get the whole "birth defect" argument.

What I'm talking about is biology. As much as I wish things were different, the fact is I have male sexual equipment and all of the issues that come with that particular package. I have an unfortunate amount of testosterone coursing through my system and that, along with my silly penis are the two primary reasons why I could not currently engage in a lesbian relationship.

For the sake of argument I'm willing to entertain the idea that those of us with feminine spirits can get a pass on this if we stipulate that the biology is secondary to the intent.

Now, if we agree on that, then follow me;

I think you'll find that the overwhelming majority of those that use this "lesbian trapped in a male body" phrase are also coincidentally the same people that will say they "are not women and have no interest in being women", or words to that effect. So, I think you see where this is leading.

If a man says he loves being a man AND he loves women then how exactly do the clothes he wears make him a lesbian?

There are some very feminine spirits on this board and I love them like sisters because even in a virtual sense, that's exactly what they are. Oddly enough, I can't recall even one of them saying such a thing.

-Misty

[sometimes_miss]

It's all about words, and labeling. To put it simply, I am attracted to females, and also feel like I was supposed to be one, and in the back of my mind always kind of feel like I should behave like one. Yet I have a male body. I try to remember that there are lots of 'lesbians' that would love to have a male body.

[sfwarbonnet]

OK, I am not, and cannot be, a lesbian. Although I am attracted to women, I don’t have the proper pluming. My wife, however, has the pluming, but not the inclination. I want to be en femme with her, so I guess we would appear to be lesbians in public. In the bedroom she wants me to be the man she married. Thus I want to appear as a female and have natural breasts, but with functioning male pluming.

[kym]

ok, me being me, as a "male" i would be considered " straight, as a "female I would be considered" lesbian" or"gay", but since i have a female soul enclosed in a male body and i prefer females that makes me neither? I consider myself pansexual(or a transbian lol) simply because i look at a persons inner being and beauty to find attraction. A male that is secure with being a male and has no desire to look or emulate a female
and is attracted to only females is considered hetero or straight in todays world, however a woman that is attracted to females is considered a lesbian no matter what gender she leans towards, makes no sense to me. So a transgendered male that prefers females should be considered a lesbian as well by that logic.

[Katesback]

I gave up trying to figure out human sexuality as well as gender identity. These days I just go with the flow and accept people for what they are. To devote significant thought into trying to figure these aspects of people out is pointless.

Katie
Snip-Snip

[ReineD]

A male that is secure with being a male and has no desire to look or emulate a female and is attracted to only females is considered hetero or straight in todays world, however a woman that is attracted to females is considered a lesbian no matter what gender she leans towards, makes no sense to me.

Oh dear. I just had another thought. What do we call GGs who are attracted to CDs? Gyndrosexual? (comb. form of gyne + andro) :D

So what do you get when a transbian and a gyndrosexual are together? They both become gyndrobian?

Lol ... I've got to stop. I'm having a weird day.

[~Michelle~]

there are lots of 'lesbians' that would love to have a male body.

Are you sure about that?

[kimdl93]

I wouldn't presume to lable myself lesbian although I aspire to be. I'm MtF CDer, and in a monogamous relationship with a woman. But on the other hand...I have had encounters with males when in guy mode. I guess I'm bi either way you wish to look at it!