Has anyone ever noticed the intelligence factor of crossdressers?

[madison lee]

Has anyone noticed a connection between intelligence and crossdressing? I mean think about this for a minute. On this forum we have computer techs, engineers architects, and various other people with careers that takes quite a bit of intelligence to do.

Not to toot my own horn or anything but I am extremely well read (books AND as a crossdresser lol) I can design and build a house from the ground up, I know how to do all aspects of construction except operate a crane. I know quite a lot about computers and other electronics and gadgets, including building some neat gadgets for my ghost hunting group.

Has any one else noticed this about crossdressers?

[sherri52]

It usually takes someone with a decent job to afford to get both male and female clothing for themselves. In today's market the better jobs are normally taken by those with more of an education.

[Elle1946]

Not upset, but I am one of the train ones and it does require some smarts to operate 10,000 tons of train, 12,000 horsepower locomotives and keep it all on the rail. And I am a crossdresser.

[dilane]

Some time ago, Virginia Prince published a scientific article in a psychology journal that claimed that TV's had an average IQ of 125. That's about the 95th percentile.

I suspect self-selection bias in that study, but many of my TV/CD/TS friends are pretty bright. (And so are many of my straight friends :) ).

In general human populations, I read recently that European Jews have the highest average IQ (115), which might explain the high percentage of doctors and lawyers that are Jewish. (No, I'm not Jewish)

So an average IQ of 125 a pretty elite group.

[christinek]

At the last SCC The theme was Heros Among Us. When they asked the military to stand up of the 1000 people there more than half the room stood up. It is a fact that the average military individual is highly educated.

[Tranny Tee]

Is the average member of any internet forum more intelligent or brighter than the average?

If one were to judge the intellience of a group by its ability to spell we might not score all that well.

[kellycan27]

Gee where's that "patting" you on the back smiley when you need it? :doh:

[madison lee]

Not upset, but I am one of the train ones and it does require some smarts to operate 10,000 tons of train, 12,000 horsepower locomotives and keep it all on the rail. And I am a crossdresser.

Never said that it didnt. It was not meant as a slight in any way.

[NathalieX66]

Read here, the paragraph about intelligence:
http://jenellerose.com/htmlpostings/darkside/Temperament.htm

[madison lee]

Gee where's that "patting" you on the back smiley when you need it? :doh:

Wasnt patting myself on the back. I was trying to make a point. Is that a problem?

[Karinsamatha]

I never really thought about it. Perhaps as you say we are more intelligent, but I have another thought to add. Time and time again I have been told I do not think as other people in my industry. Perhaps "our thought processes" are different from 100 % male's. What do you think?
:2c:

[madison lee]

I never really thought about it. Perhaps as you say we are more intelligent, but I have another thought to add. Time and time again I have been told I do not think as other people in my industry. Perhaps "our thought processes" are different from 100 % male's. What do you think?
:2c:

I agree. I believe that we think outside the box, so to speak, and that in turn lets us think and see things that most males don't.

[Stephanie Miller]

I think Albert Einsteinsaid "It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems longer."
So, if staying with "it" longer is the measure of intelligence then I'm way up there. It takes me forever to pick out the right outfit! :eg:

[kellycan27]

Not to toot my own horn or anything but I am extremely well read (books AND as a crossdresser lol) I can design and build a house from the ground up, I know how to do all aspects of construction except operate a crane. I know quite a lot about computers and other electronics and gadgets, including building some neat gadgets for my ghost hunting group.





Sorry.. my mistake

[madison lee]

Sorry.. my mistake

Yes? What is your point? If your not going to add anything intelligent to the discussion besides you sarcastic wit then refrain from commenting. Obviously it seems that the point of this discussion has completely passed you by.

[Tess]

You didn't expect us to disagree about our intelligence did you...

[kellycan27]

Yes? What is your point? If your not going to add anything intelligent to the discussion besides you sarcastic wit then refrain from commenting. Obviously it seems that the point of this discussion has completely passed you by.

Actually I don't see a point....... All of the types you mentioned have to have a certain amount of intelligence to do that kind of work, and I don't see a relevant connection between cross dressing and intelligence.

[madison lee]

Actually I don't see a point....... All of the types you mentioned have to have a certain amount of intelligence to do that kind of work, and I don't see a relevant connection between cross dressing and intelligence.

And your type of work is?

[AmandaM]

Well, I have a high IQ and an advanced degree. I ain't perfect, but I know better than to get my panties in a bunch over this thread! LOL

[mklinden2010]

Why, no...

I'm sure you must be the first.

Bravo.

Bravo!

[Misty is Kindafem]

And your type of work is?

Wow, I was all set to jump on your bandwagon but now I'm not so sure. You seem a little bit snippy, and more than a little bit sensitive.

Some of the smartest people I know, are also some of the funniest, most relaxed people I know.

Something to consider.

-Misty

[kellycan27]

And your type of work is?

You asked, and I said that I don't see the corrolation between crossdressers and higher than average intellegence. In any group there are going to be some that are more intellegent than others. You seemed to be implying that crossdressers seem to be of a more intellegent bunch. I have been here for just over a year and have been involved in many different discussions, only to discover that we pretty much run the gambit of intellegence in much the same way that other groups do. I wasn't saying that you are wrong..just offering another opinion. ... NO, I have not noticed that crossdressers seem to be more on the intellegent side.. Present company excepted.
Oh... I am just a lowly accountant.

[madison lee]

It has nothing to do with me being "snippy" or "oversensitive". It has to do with the fact that this is a discussion. The person in question, rather than make a valid point or have something to add to the discussion, instead decided to make a sarcastic comment that has no bearing on the discussion in question. I have no problem with anyone on here and think that most of the ladies here are quite wonderful. But what is the point of making a sarcastic comment if you dont like what the discussion is about? If you disagree then say so. But to make a comment that way is unnecessary to say the least.

[madison lee]

Gee where's that "patting" you on the back smiley when you need it? :doh:

THIS was your first response.



Sorry.. my mistake

This was your second response.


Actually I don't see a point....... All of the types you mentioned have to have a certain amount of intelligence to do that kind of work, and I don't see a relevant connection between cross dressing and intelligence.


You asked, and I said that I don't see the corrolation between crossdressers and higher than average intellegence. In any group there are going to be some that are more intellegent than others. You seemed to be implying that crossdressers seem to be of a more intellegent bunch. I have been here for just over a year and have been involved in many different discussions, only to discover that we pretty much run the gambit of intellegence in much the same way that other groups do. I wasn't saying that you are wrong..just offering another opinion. ... NO, I have not noticed that crossdressers seem to be more on the intellegent side.. Present company excepted.
Oh... I am just a lowly accountant.





So tell me how you were responding to the discussion considering what your first response shows us? You did not make a real response to the discussion till much later. But it does not really matter at this point.

[Misty is Kindafem]

If you disagree then say so. But to make a comment that way is unnecessary to say the least.

Please Madison, her comment was just a gentle poke for fun.

Hardly anything to get upset about. You can't take yourself or others too seriously around here.

Besides, she's right. As much as I would like to think differently, there are an awful lot of posts on this forum that would indicate an average intellect, at best.

Of course there ARE quite a few girls here that are way above average so that would hopefully bring up the mean.

-Misty

[Persephone]

You asked, and I said that I don't see the corrolation between crossdressers and higher than average intellegence. In any group there are going to be some that are more intellegent than others. You seemed to be implying that crossdressers seem to be of a more intellegent bunch. I have been here for just over a year and have been involved in many different discussions, only to discover that we pretty much run the gambit of intellegence in much the same way that other groups do. I wasn't saying that you are wrong..just offering another opinion. ... NO, I have not noticed that crossdressers seem to be more on the intellegent side..
:iagree::yt:

I remember seeing Virginia Prince's info on crossdressers having higher average intelligence, along with others, probably in the 60's & 70's, who also said that but I'm not really sure it is true. I think there is a certain amount of sampling error in those early studies, and, like Kelly, I believe we are probably distributed pretty evenly in the population.

[RockerTerri]

Im smart enough to know, this thread locked, soon will be.

[Chickhe]

I think there is some truth to it... Consider it takes a lot of self awareness, keen observation skills and a strong will and thinking outside the box to not only look like the opposite gender, but most often keeping it a secret from anyone else.

[Karinsamatha]

I think there is some truth to it... Consider it takes a lot of self awareness, keen observation skills and a strong will and thinking outside the box to not only look like the opposite gender, but most often keeping it a secret from anyone else.

Well said! :hugs::drink:

[Sedona]

I don't see a relevant connection between cross dressing and intelligence.

I couldn't agree more. Unless I see a real study with real data, I see no reason to believe crossdressers are more or less intelligent than anybody else.

Most people think they're on the intelligent side of humanity, but by definition, 50 percent of us are dumber than average.

[kathie225]

there is a judge in the house who can render a verdict??????? Intelligence aside, every demographic has it's overachievers/underachievers. Initiative and ambition are not always traits of intelligent persons, but are for sucessful ones. I also believe that vocational success likewise is not an absolute litmus test for intelligence. I know folks that do manual labor who are intelligent. Let's not be too judgmental in this area. We as CD'ers are already stigmatized and marginalized by society. No need to add another level.

Good luck to all..........Kathie

[madison lee]

I'd offer one thought: How are you going to measure perceived intelligence when all you have to go on are written responses to essay questions? Turing tests notwithstanding, perceived intelligence is going to be an extremely subjective observation, and one person's above-average will be another's just so-so.

Intelligence measurements are so controversial even when you try to use relatively standardized measures like SAT scores or percentiles from standardized tests, etc. There's raging controversies over cultural bias as to why white anglo-saxons will routinely do better than minorities and a large segment of the academe elite believe what we learn by association (ie, growing up in white suburban neighborhoods) and that gives us (yes, I'm white) an unfair edge on these tests.

So anyway, my point is, and please take this as an academic critique and not a personal slam, unless you've got a double-blind study to back the statement, I think it's unsustainable to make the statement that there's any correlation between cross-dressing (or any other activity) and intelligence.

And that's my .02



I don't think it's a slam. I think it raises a good point.

[AliceJaneInNewcastle]

Has anyone noticed a connection between intelligence and crossdressing?
Yes. They are as average as the rest of society, but predominantly only the more intelligent ones are involved in non-X-rated internet forum sites such as this one.

I know crossdressers ranging from intellectually handicapped to IQs of 130+. The lowest IQ ones don't use the internet at all, and a band in the low to average range tend to spend most of their online time in sexually explicit activities.

Looking at the members of this site as being representative of crossdressers or transgender people in general is never going to work because it's an exercise in self selection.

[kellycan27]

Yes. They are as average as the rest of society, but predominantly only the more intelligent ones are involved in non-X-rated internet forum sites such as this one.

May I ask how you came to this conclusion? I am not sure that most people who are involved in x-rated Internet sites.. are going to just admit that they do so, no matter where they fall on the intelligence scale. :straightface:

Kelly

[AmandaM]

From what I remember, Cders and gays are more intelligent than the average Joe, er, Jane. Azkanazi Jews score highest, followed by Asians, then northern Europeans. But, we've all seen boobs of all creeds and colors. And Condoleeza Rice has something like three Ph.D.'s! So, go figure.

Oh, and remember we're just talking bell curve and analytical intelligence, not emotional intelligence, etc.

[Cheshire Gummi]

I, for one, am dumber than a sack of hammers.

I may have a dandy vocabulary, but I have the common sense and survival instincts of a carrot.

I don't have low self-esteem or anything. I do like me. I'm just dumb as hell and I accept that.

[AmandaM]

Various reports of studies done over the last 20 years. Too tired to go look for them. I'm talking general IQ tests here. Feel free to check it out.

[Karen564]

It has nothing to do with me being "snippy" or "oversensitive". It has to do with the fact that this is a discussion. The person in question, rather than make a valid point or have something to add to the discussion, instead decided to make a sarcastic comment that has no bearing on the discussion in question. I have no problem with anyone on here and think that most of the ladies here are quite wonderful. But what is the point of making a sarcastic comment if you dont like what the discussion is about? If you disagree then say so. But to make a comment that way is unnecessary to say the least.

Um, I'm sorry to interrupt your intelligence thread, but you were attacking a very good friend of mine that I do know personally, and I can assure you she is far more than just a lowly accountant & highly intellegent...but you will not see her boast about it on this site...because she's a classy woman...
Which also happens to be extremely well liked on this site...
If you had used some of your intelligence, instead of immediately taking offense to her post, you could see that she's contributed far more to these forums than some newbie...

As far as the point of your thread,

We have a very wide range of individuals here from all walks of life...some are highly educated & some not so educated...just like everywhere else..

[PretzelGirl]

I am going to side with the CDs being average. I think we are just a regular cross section of everyday people. I think your more well versed people will tend, on average, to be among the more prolific posters, so that may skew the "feel".

[sterling12]

Careful, if you wish to link Intelligence and Crossdressing! I'm just not seeing The Linkage. Remember that one of The Favorite, Continuous, Threads on THIS Forum is entitled: "What Color Panties Are You Wearing?"

I think that pretty much sums it up!

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Persephone]

I'd offer one thought: How are you going to measure perceived intelligence when all you have to go on are written responses to essay questions? Turing tests notwithstanding, perceived intelligence is going to be an extremely subjective observation, and one person's above-average will be another's just so-so.

Intelligence measurements are so controversial even when you try to use relatively standardized measures like SAT scores or percentiles from standardized tests, etc.

As it happens, Kat, I have an advanced degree in intelligence (seriously!).

"Turing Test not withstanding?" The Turing Test, created by Alan Turing, was a very brilliant test designed to identify the possibility of machine intelligence, not human intelligence.

Standardized intelligence tests, and there are several that are rather reliable, do not involve "essay questions," nor are they really very subjective.

SAT scores are not measures of intelligence, rather, they tend to be measures of knowledge.

In a loose sort of way, I've always suggested that you can think of intelligence as a bathtub and knowledge as water in that bathtub. Bathtubs come in a variety of shapes and sizes and can hold varying amounts of water, but whatever their size or shape, they can be empty, partially filled or brimming over with water. It isn't a perfect analogy by far, but it works for me.


Azkanazi Jews score highest, followed by Asians, then northern Europeans. But, we've all seen boobs of all creeds and colors.

I actually helped write a book back in the 60's that came to exactly that conclusion, and may very well be the source of Amanda's statement. Certainly, Ashkenazic Jews and Asians have demonstrated above average performance in a number of fields from entertainment to advanced engineering. However, while I can't speak for Asians, I have met quite a number of Ashkenazic Jews and there are a fair number of airheads in that population (and I am an Ashkenazic Jew so I feel comfortable making that statement).


And Condoleeza Rice has something like three Ph.D.'s! So, go figure.

Would you like to clarify that, Amanda?


I know folks that do manual labor who are intelligent. Let's not be too judgmental in this area.

:hugs: Absolutely! Positively! :hugs:

[Joanie_Shakti]

"I guess I'm just dumb, 'cause I know I ain't smart
but deep down inside, I got a rock 'n' roll heart"
- Lou Reed

I don't know about being above average intelligence. I work in the computer field as a maintenance technician but programming, other than a knowledge of primary BASIC, is an enigma to me. But if I take something apart, I can usually get it back together again. People have lauded about my "smarts" and I was pretty good in school, but decades of marijuana use kept me from achieving my full potential as I am a lazy person to begin with and getting high just amplified that tendency. So I don't see that as very intelligent.

Though I do like the premise of the thread to make me feel better about myself and this strange "hobby," other than reading the posts here, I know no other crossdressers to judge myself against.

[t-girlxsophie]

I dont feel theres any Correlation(thats last big word ya getting) between Crossdressing and Higher Intelligence,Indeed I know people who have degrees and qualifications coming out of their ears,but have absolutely no common sense at all
At school I had a high I.Q. but lacked the motivation to do anything about it
COULD DO BETTER and MUST APPLY HIMSELF MORE were regularly seen on my report cards.Thats probably why I stack shelves for a (honest)living,but I still consider myself to be quite intelligent.
This site has threads that run the Gamit (ok I had to look that up)of subjects from high brow to Giggly,Girlie ones:heehee:,And girls reply to both,so I think were much the same as society as a whole,Pheeewww! i need to lie down after that spiel,my heid hurts:D

[Karen564]

"I guess I'm just dumb, 'cause I know I ain't smart
but deep down inside, I got a rock 'n' roll heart"
- Lou Reed

I don't know about being above average intelligence. I work in the computer field as a maintenance technician but programming, other than a knowledge of primary BASIC, is an enigma to me. But if I take something apart, I can usually get it back together again. People have lauded about my "smarts" and I was pretty good in school, but decades of marijuana use kept me from achieving my full potential as I am a lazy person to begin with and getting high just amplified that tendency. So I don't see that as very intelligent.

Though I do like the premise of the thread to make me feel better about myself and this strange "hobby," other than reading the posts here, I know no other crossdressers to judge myself against.

Don't put yourself down & give yourself more credit that that Joanie.
You cant be all that bad, if you love Lou Reed & have a heart of gold, and all the better that your a computer tech.. but so what if if you smoked some grass.....some of the smartest people I know smoke grass....lol
Not to mention, if you look like anything like your beautiful Avi, then what else do you need? You have all you need to be successful in this world, which is looks & a brain...

Just saying........, give yourself some credit girl...
:hugs:

[Joanie_Shakti]

Thanks Karen. I know of a lot of really smart people who smoke too and I would still if it wasn't for surprise "quizzes" at work. I just get mad at myself because I do have a tendency for inertia to take over.

And thanks for the compliment on the avatar. I wish I looked that good. It's a morph between my face and that of a readhead GG who's beauty and intelligence I admire.

[NatashaCD]

I certainly do not consider myself to be smart in anyway although people tell me im smart most of the time

I can take a car apart and put it back together im good with tools in that respect and if I can do all that without breaking a nail well I guess I am pretty clever

But I certainly do not think I have a high IQ but who cares im still here and enjoying life with the very few friends that I have and a girl that loves me

Oh and ps I dont have a job I only get called in every once in awhile when im needed but I have enough common sence to survive

[Dana]

At the last SCC The theme was Heros Among Us. When they asked the military to stand up of the 1000 people there more than half the room stood up. It is a fact that the average military individual is highly educated.


20 years retired Marine Corps

NCO Academy
SNCO Academy
Scout/Sniper School
Advanced Recon/Scout/ Sniper School
Mountain WarFare School
Desert Warfare School
Arctic Warfare School
Jungle Warfare School

BS ~ Business Admin ~ Management
BS ~ Business Admin ~ Finance

[Veronica Nowakowski]

My second time out in public, I was told by a woman that it is always the philosophers that end up crossdressing.

[CherryZips]

I vote for no connection too. Though it would be nice.

There is a serious self selection process going on here. A critical value is freedom. Intelligence and education often relate to economic power. The more economic power someone has the freer people feel to act.

Compare our standing with the gay community. On average would you expect it to be easier to come out in a middle class or working class community? We are only seeing the expression not the desire.

[Phyliss]

bein not 2 brite, i'll say nuthing, just raze post cont

[Veronica Nowakowski]

On average would you expect it to be easier to come out in a middle class or working class community? We are only seeing the expression not the desire.

I would have to say a middle class community as the middle class is self employed (seeing as there is no lower class, but rather the working class, we're obviously using proletariat/middle class/bourgeoisie). Not having to worry about losing your source of income from it, is easier, and someone self employed is much less likely to have to worry about that. In some instances it can kill business, but that's still less likely for them.

[Joanne f]

I have always known that i am not a cross dresser but could never quite figure out why , now you have come up with that missing link " intelligence linked to cross dressing " , i have no intelligence at all so i can`t be a cross dresser :D.

[BRANDYJ]

I don't agree on the intelligence of us CD's being any higher then any other sector of the population. More so, I don't believe education is higher among us then other sectors. In the first place, I have met way to many educated idiots in my life then I care to meet. I have also met some with 4th grade educations that are so much smarter then many with degrees; One is a self made millionaire.

Sadly, I have also read posts in various CD groups where there is no doubt that the person was on a lower scale when it comes to IQ....Not the brightest light on the tree.

There is no connection at all. We come from all walks of life.
Will Rogers once said, that every man is stupid...cept on a different subject. I fully agree with that.

[Veronica Nowakowski]

I don't agree on the intelligence of us CD's being any higher then any other sector of the population. More so, I don't believe education is higher among us then other sectors. In the first place, I have met way to many educated idiots in my life then I care to meet. I have also met some with 4th grade educations that are so much smarter then many with degrees; One is a self made millionaire.

Sadly, I have also read posts in various CD groups where there is no doubt that the person was on a lower scale when it comes to IQ....Not the brightest light on the tree.

There is no connection at all. We come from all walks of life.
Will Rogers once said, that every man is stupid...cept on a different subject. I fully agree with that.

That doesn't really answer the question. Just because we may be varied on the whole doesn't mean there isn't a trend. For example, some mildly weighted dice may land on 6 more often than anything else and so may be said to have a tendency to land on 6.... It doesn't happen to be an equal chance of all just because it sometimes lands on 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 sometimes. I don't know the answer overall, and the correlation may be false if there is any, and even then the causation is in question (does intelligence lead you to crossdress or vice versa?). But saying that you've met idiots who crossdress does not disprove crossdressers being smarter on average.

[Tamara Croft]

And you all should be intelligent enough to know NOT to get into pissing contests on this board, obviously you are not, so this thread is closed... :rolleyes: