Admirers

[Sarah_GG]

We went along to a regular event last night - magic-theatre.co.uk - but found that it wasn't as good as it usually is. The reason (we think?) is because there were a lot of 'admirers' or 'tranny chasers' there.

I found myself questioning what it is about these individuals that I find... well, a bit creepy. For starters I think it's because everyone else makes a real effort and dresses up (and this particular 'do' is a real dress-up, anything goes type of event) but the admirers don't make any effort at all. I also find that they seem to 'letch' and drool a bit too much.

I just wondered what the general consensus is about 'admirers'? I'm usually very open-minded about most things but there's something about the lurking and letching that I find a bit... I don't know? I guess I'm questioning my own prejudices.

Thoughts welcome! :)

[Fab Karen]

Some are just what you described ( in some cases worse ), and some are true gentlemen that are thoughtful & caring.

[Tracey Corset]

I know what you mean Sarah, It's one of the reasons we don't go out much any more, we had a similar experience at the way out club, it didn't bother me too much but my wife found it too creepy, she won't go again and i respect that

[noeleena]

Hi,
On an other forum tv chix, i did ?? this as at the time i had no idear who what they were , as i found out latter on . i heard about them & the comments were not nice , hence i backed away.

im a woman & im not interested in any details that they are about , & thats it .

Now there may be some nice men among them so i just leave it there .

...noeleena...

[BRANDYJ]

My opinion on admirers is overall..not a good one. But then again, maybe because I am not interested in men in anyway. I see them as predators simply looking for kinky sex. In many cases, the kind they don't get from their wives. But I suppose they are not much different then the crude predators that hit on GG's with the same mostly tacky approach. Many are bisexuals that somehow think that if they are with a cross dresser, that it is somehow OK to be bi since they see us as a woman with something extra.
Read Craig's list. You will see some that say they are straight, but looking for a CD/TV/ trans. And usually with very graphic details of exactly what they want to do to or with a T-girl. It's not pretty. I imagine there are exceptions. But for the most part I still view them as predators. But what do I know, Never been with one and never will.

[Billie1]

For the most part, like Brandy said, chasers are interested in only one thing. I get the feeling of being 'stalked', and I can relate to GG's when they are hit upon by similar individuals. For the most part, they are kind of creepy in the way they act.

[msniki48]

For the most part, like Brandy said, chasers are interested in only one thing. I get the feeling of being 'stalked', and I can relate to GG's when they are hit upon by similar individuals. For the most part, they are kind of creepy in the way they act.


Billie, what you say is so true,it would be like a typical bar scene at the jersey shore...lol typical guys looking to hook up....except we are a little more specialized i guess:doh: Of course that is the bad side, I am sure there are many admirers that are sincere. [ both male and female] i have been on a couple of chat sits where the admirers were totally respectful.

other wise, those of us gurls that are looking for men, would never find a man that they could have a lasting relationship with...i know there has to be some with a "happily ever after" somewhere:battingeyelashes:

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

My problem with the majority of the "chasers" that I've seen is that they don't view the trans person as an individual but rather as some sort of ideal or concept. Case in point, even though I show my boy face in the vast, vast, majority of my pics, I still occasionally get friend requests or emails from guys on my CDing myspace page telling me how "sweet" a girl I am and how they'd love to treat me just like a lady. I even had a guy feminize my name once in an email "Ryana" when referring to me. As annoying as this is, it's no where near as bad as the old days before I was close to coming out, and my pics were of me dressed as a girl but with no face pics. The things these guys would suggest in the very FIRST email they'd send me... I couldn't believe their total lack of any smoothness or tact or anything. Even if I was into what they wanted, they were going about it in a horrible way.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I think its just another form of human sexuality and its unfair to broad brush one group ...

there are lots of folks here that want to be dressed as a woman and have sex with men and/or women...is that creepy? i don't think so, and if you think these chasers are creepy then i wonder what people think of you?

men in general chase women...thats the way it goes...and yes, some of these guys are trans and can't admit it, some are gay and can't admit, so what??

I've met alot of guys and some creepers, most are not.
in fact, in my short time span living as a woman, the creepiest person i've met is a natal woman that stalks my friend and i at transevents...

[Karren H]

Just getting drool on my pretty dress would creep me out!!

[Barbara Dugan]

I think its just another form of human sexuality and its unfair to broad brush one group ...

there are lots of folks here that want to be dressed as a woman and have sex with men and/or women...is that creepy? i don't think so, and if you think these chasers are creepy then i wonder what people think of you?

men in general chase women...thats the way it goes...and yes, some of these guys are trans and can't admit it, some are gay and can't admit, so what??

I've met alot of guys and some creepers, most are not.
in fact, in my short time span living as a woman, the creepiest person i've met is a natal woman that stalks my friend and i at transevents...

I totally agree with Kaitlyn:thumbsup:

[Staci G]

Well the last worry I have is someone stalking me :doh: I think they are in their own closet and don't want to admit they want a man, but instead they feel like it might be ok if they pretend to be attracted to a woman even if she has a penis. I hope someone understands where I am going with this. If you think I am confused think how the chasers must be :D

[Cassandra Lynn]

Sarah, when i first clicked on your OP i felt excited, thinking about the possibilty of meeting accepting and supportive GGs at an event, and the thought that there were places one could go where meeting real women existed. I guess i forget that admirers come in both sexes, and so i wonder, are there GGs out there that would attend an event, or go to a club with the intent of meeting a TG/CD.

Not trying to hijack your thread dear, it just got me to thinking? I've only been to the alternative nightclubs here a few times and never dressed, but observed the patrons who were and although i didn't see any of them being hit on by men, i've heard it is common. And they did appear to group up together and stay somewhat separated from the rest of the crowd, but i couldn't tell why.

They were having conversations with the real women and seemed to be treated kindly, and i can only assume that it was just talk and not an attempt to spend time together. So if anyone has any thoughts on whether there are GGs who frequent the clubs or events because they are interested in the TG/CDs out there i'd surely like to know? I guess i'd be really suprised to find that there is? mj (Cassie)

[Mea GG]

I have an analogy re the chasers. Let's see if this makes sense.

I have a lesbian friend at work that will sometimes refer to BBWs, big beautiful woman, which is a phrase I hate. It kinda doesn't sound so bad as each word...but the problem is the BBW-lovers, chubby chasers, who like a girl only or mainly because of her size (maybe there is a female equivalent but if so I have not heard of it).

Just like most of us (and by us, I mean humans), I want to be loved for WHO I am. And the people being discussed here maybe fall into that category, where it is just about a sexual fetish and nothing to do with caring for people as individuals.

Now the chubby chaser is gonna buy chocolates or whatever your favorite is and sabotage weight loss efforts out of their own selfish desire. And the guy that wants to mold you into his skinny ideal image is no good either.

So it boils down to is one aspect of ourselves an object of another's desire or are we complete individuals relating in a human way to other complete individuals.
~

[Kate Simmons]

Hmm perfect timing on this thread I'd say. Are admirers creepy? Hard to say because the admiree seems to have some input into that as well. In fact, they would not remain an admiree unless they wanted to in my opinion. Maybe some needs are filled both ways. In any case I think it should be a requirement for said admirers to have run the gamut of the admirees before attempting to admire them . In other words, literally walk a mile(or more) in a CD's shoes before asking them out.:)

[TxKimberly]

The majority of the admirers I've met give me the creeps. To the best of my memory, there were only two that didn't - one guy in Indianapolis and one guy in Southern California. With out exception, the rest of them I've met make me very uncomfortable.
I remember the first time I went out in the Boston area. I'd just had a makeover by Jamie Austin (before she went pro) and went with another Tgirl to Jacques. From the moment we entered, until the time we left, this one guy sat there and stared at me. He didn't smile, he didn't wink, he didn't say "hi" - he just sat there and stared for more than an hour. I just shivered just thinking about it. . .


. . . So it boils down to is one aspect of ourselves an object of another's desire or are we complete individuals relating in a human way to other complete individuals. . .

What an awesome post, and so right on all accounts. Most of us want to be loved for who we are, not what we are. My wife and I laugh every once in a while about ourselves. When we married, my wife was a tiny little thing that all of the boys (yes, including me) were drooling after. When we married, I was a soldier in the US Army, with the body and attitude that comes with that ultra macho profession. Now more than 20 years later, my wife weighs almost twice what I do, and she is stuck with a somewhat feminine guy who had gone to great lengths to get rid of all of his body fur. We are nothing like the people we were when we married but I still love and adore my wife, and am pretty sure she feels the same about me. I love HER, not her body . . .

[DonniDarkness]

I have something to offer on this subject stemming from the few times i have gone to metal concerts and gothic halloween balls, dressed half femme/half goth boy

OP:
I just wondered what the general consensus is about 'admirers'?

Admirers: These are really more often than not closeted cd's as well. Although some are just appreciative of us as we tend to fall in the "art" genre of dressing, being children of the night and embracing our love for taboo. And the looking (lurking), if that person doesnt say anything and is just looking, you have to remind yourself of the 2-3 hours you took to get rdy to get looked at, i mean its just silly to think i wont be looked at wearing combat boots and a fishnet top with my face painted like the crow...:battingeyelashes: But really if they just look,stare,gawk or lurk thats fine, enjoy the visual attention.

i guess as long as they are polite when they speak, arent completely obnoxious, and keep their hands to themselves then let them be them, as they are fine with who we are

[NathalieX66]

I've only begun being out in public (such as bars & nightclubs) beyond support group meetings within the last three months, not counting halloween, and I'm kind of new at this, so bear with me here if I don't have as much insight.
I don't mind being admired & complimented, that's what makes being out & about fun. People are very prone to interact with you. I was at a LGBT nightspot recently, and was offered drinks about 4 times, but one guy was so persistent ( and also drunk as I could tell buy his slurring speech) that he followed me from the bar back to the table I was with other people. The place was packed and I had to listen to his drivel and constant compliments & drink offers, while waiting over 5 minutes for the bartender to serve me. He patted me on the shoulder once, and I could tell where this was going. That's when the red creep light went on in my head. Fortunately once he saw my company he dissapeared.

I would think that women have this exact problem, but I also agree with JiveTurkeyOnRye as being a "sort of ideal or concept" rather than an actual person, as if we are public exhibitionists looking for thrill, and they become thrilled themselves when they see me. Normally I would just tell them that I'm a lesbian when push comes to shove.

But I also find these stalker-type creeps perplexing because there doesn't appear to be any end goal that seems meaningful. :worried: There's more than just the booze talking.

[Lorileah]

Some are just what you described ( in some cases worse ), and some are true gentlemen that are thoughtful & caring.



A gentleman is simply a patient wolf.

Ever notice how the seabirds tend to flock around schools of fish? It is easier when the prey is herded into a small area and events like you describe do that.

It comes from the misconception, and it doesn't just fit CDs but even GG's who take time to look good, that they only dress up or act like "that" to get a guy. And be honest here, a good many DQ's will take anything with XY chromosomes. I agree that there are far too many "tranny chasers" at these events and I will add that there are far too many trannys who use extra bait. All it takes is a couple of TGs whose sole purpose is to fulfill the "dream" of being all woman and having a man that when closing time comes even the dregs can get a hook up.

One thing about this site is that is a rarity. I am considered the classless dresser here and I really have a more club look when I go out. Once in a while we get a thread that has the "have you ever been with a man like a woman: threads but they are few here. In the real world I think it is far more common. It isn't unusual here in Denver to see TG's on the prowl for what you describe and that becomes the common perception. Most people here will agree that what "we" do isn't a sexual fetish (even if it started out that way)

[Rachel Morley]

Some are just what you described ( in some cases worse ), and some are true gentlemen that are thoughtful & caring.
I agree with Karen here. I'll be honest and say I've not had "that" much interaction with admirers, but with the ones I have met in person, were super nice to me and perfect gentlemen and I didn't feel like I was being "preyed upon". :2c:

[StarrOfDelite]

I think it would be helpful on this thread if the posters identified themselves as to their own sexual orientation. I'm not sure that a person who identifies as a hetero crossdresser is an unbiased observer, since by definition wouldn't they think sex with any man was creepy?

Also, are we calling every man who enjoys the company of a Trans-girl an Admirer, or just the guys who show up for the Girls Nights Out with their macho pride sticking out in front of them? There are plenty of nice guys out there who admit they are Bi- and who are enjoyable company for bi-sexual or gay crossdressers. Many of them wouldn't be caught dead at a staged event.

Personally, I identify myself as an omnisexual, and I pretty much stay out of fetish bars nowadays. Not because of the Admirers, but because I think the whole experience is a too artificial. The Queens are there, the Admirers are there, the Hetero CD's and sometimes their GG wives and girlfriends, often ******* pro's showup in the bigger cities, there is usually a large contingent of uncertain lurkers, and there is always some sort of outrageous entertainment. It tends to wear on one after a while, not because the people are creepy but because of sensual overload.

If a person goes to a fetish bar, or a fetish event then why shouldn't you expect to find creepy people of all sorts of sexual orientations? And, let's face it, the overwhelming majority of the population which isn't GLBT pretty much thinks of ALL of us as creepy, too., even tho many crossdressers are just as homophobic as the general population. If you want to enjoy the sights at a fetish bar, don't go dressed, because then you are part of the sights, and fair game for the rest of the exhibitionists.

I'm fortunate because I've moved to New York, and there are friendly places to go which aren't fetish bars. When I lived in NE Ohio and western PA, there were only gay bars which have "Girls Nights Out." When the bar promotes the first or second Saturday of every month that way, you're going to have all sorts of Strange Ones show up, and don't be surprised if you're considered to be one of the Strange Ones.

[Sarah_GG]

Lots of response... thanks everyone for your input.


I think its just another form of human sexuality and its unfair to broad brush one group ...

I agree. As I said, I'm a broadminded, free-thinking individual. I have no problem with any adult doing whatever it is that floats their boat. I wanted to question my own prejudice with this particular group.


there are lots of folks here that want to be dressed as a woman and have sex with men and/or women...is that creepy? i don't think so, and if you think these chasers are creepy then i wonder what people think of you?

I have no issue with anyone's sexual orientation. I noticed last night (and have noticed in the past) that this particular group of individuals don't seem to join in with the main throng. The event last night is billed as a sort of burlesque, dress to fulfill your own fantasy (as long as it doesn't involve nudity or cause offence) so the majority of people have great fun getting involved in fantasy burlesque dressing. The 'tranny chasers' don't. They come wearing anoraks and grubby sweaters and don't dance. They just (I'm aware this is a sweeping generalisation) seem to leer.


men in general chase women...thats the way it goes...and yes, some of these guys are trans and can't admit it, some are gay and can't admit, so what??

I had read that in 'Alice in Genderland'. So what?! Absolutely. I'm just making the comment and asking the question.


I've met alot of guys and some creepers, most are not.
in fact, in my short time span living as a woman, the creepiest person i've met is a natal woman that stalks my friend and i at transevents...

Oh dear. Sorry to hear that, stalking is indeed creepy.




Now the chubby chaser is gonna buy chocolates or whatever your favorite is and sabotage weight loss efforts out of their own selfish desire.
And the guy that wants to mold you into his skinny ideal image is no good either.

So it boils down to is one aspect of ourselves an object of another's desire or are we complete individuals relating in a human way to other complete individuals.

Yes this explains my issue. It's not the individual they're interested in, just the transness.


Admirers: These are really more often than not closeted cd's as well. Although some are just appreciative of us as we tend to fall in the "art" genre of dressing, being children of the night and embracing our love for taboo. And the looking (lurking), if that person doesnt say anything and is just looking, you have to remind yourself of the 2-3 hours you took to get rdy to get looked at, i mean its just silly to think i wont be looked at wearing combat boots and a fishnet top with my face painted like the crow...:battingeyelashes: But really if they just look,stare,gawk or lurk thats fine, enjoy the visual attention.

i guess as long as they are polite when they speak, arent completely obnoxious, and keep their hands to themselves then let them be them, as they are fine with who we are

It's the lurking (not joining in) that I find difficult to accept. Great, by all means go along to an event where there are lots of gurls to admire, but can't they at least enter into the spirit of the evening. Last night was the first night that so many 'admirers' had been to this particular event and the general vibe was quite different to how it usually is. It's a night that originally attracted all ages, sexualities and genders and was (until last night) a really fun and friendly place to be.


My problem with the majority of the "chasers" that I've seen is that they don't view the trans person as an individual but rather as some sort of ideal or concept. Case in point, even though I show my boy face in the vast, vast, majority of my pics, I still occasionally get friend requests or emails from guys on my CDing myspace page telling me how "sweet" a girl I am and how they'd love to treat me just like a lady. I even had a guy feminize my name once in an email "Ryana" when referring to me. As annoying as this is, it's no where near as bad as the old days before I was close to coming out, and my pics were of me dressed as a girl but with no face pics. The things these guys would suggest in the very FIRST email they'd send me... I couldn't believe their total lack of any smoothness or tact or anything. Even if I was into what they wanted, they were going about it in a horrible way.

Exactly. These 'chaser's don't seem to be interested in or attracted to any one particular person - any transvestite/crossdresser/transexual will do. They're not fussy at all.

Last night a couple of CDers commented on it and said the same thing, "they're creepy" and "they're only after sex with a tranny". I maintain... they're just a bit... seedy.

[msginaadoll]

Theres creepy in every group.I have met men at clubs who are generally nice and are pleasant to talk to. I have met others that give me the willies. I have met cds who give me the creeps-they seem to want to be more than friends and come on too strong. As mentioned a lot depends on your sexual interests. Im sure most straight cds will be creeped out by men hitting on them. It is a lesson to be learned though know some of us know how females feel like.

[CherryZips]

Yes I can relate to the creepy guy stories.

I used to go to fetish clubs about 10 years ago and I was occasionally felt up by guys. As a straight guy it kind of put me off. And I can see that a gay guy or woman gets the same from predatory men in general.

In saying that I am considering returning to the scene. I like the mixed environment, fetish women and I miss the company of sexual outsiders.

It probably depends on what I see in the mirror the next time I get dressed.

[Nicole Erin]

I don't mind admirers, I do expect they try to be presentable.

Gentleman in public, stud in the bedroom. If he can such such, I will be -
Lady in public, w**** in the bedroom.

I am not attracted to men per se but if a guy were to be at least presentable and have similar "intimate" interests, I would be all over it.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

thnx sarah for your post...

i can't argue that some guys leer...and i would run from that guy...and i know some girls that would run to him...to each their own..

this is a terrific thread...i learned alot reading gea's post...

men are men...most men want sex..and they want it now.

the whole concept of being wanted for who you are in total vs. the concept of a "chaser (of BBW, CD, S&M etc)" wanting you only for that one specific thing makes it different, and i have to agree that it can be upsetting to folks...i never thought of it that way...thnx!!!

i kinda like the wolf in waiting....if he's for real and he's willing to wait a bit ...then i'm ok being a she-wolf :daydreaming:

[Kara Connor]

I'm curious. What is the best way to deal with the undesirable sort? I have no problem with people of different sexual orientations or "kinks", though I am only attracted to women and am completely faithful to my wife. When I go out in public, which I haven't yet, I would like to know how to best handle the situation. I don't want to be unpleasant to the purely friendly people, so other than reverting to guy mode - which might tend to escalate things - what tips do people have? I imagine the GGs on the list are used to dealing with this and will have some valuable insights.

Thanks

Kara

[Karen Smith]

Personally I think it's unfortunate many guys have made assumptions about who we are. If he's genuinely interested and attracted to who I actually am it's flattering, although I can't say I always return the interest.

[linnea]

Prejudices based on what people are ought to be questioned; prejudices based on how people behave seem appropriate to me. If a person a Muslim (and I am not), I don't have a problem. If the person behaves as a terrorist, I have a big problem. Actually, I don't think that this qualifies as prejudice anyway.
Drooling, letching, and other like behaviors do not appeal to me: they are creepy and icky. I don't feel any need to extend my own open-mindedness to accept creepy, icky behavior.

[Misty is Kindafem]

I think it would be helpful on this thread if the posters identified themselves as to their own sexual orientation. I'm not sure that a person who identifies as a hetero crossdresser is an unbiased observer, since by definition wouldn't they think sex with any man was creepy?

I agree. So the hets think it's creepy that there are men who like trannies? So what? I think it's creepy that a man would dress up like a french maid while loudly proclaiming that he is "all man". We're a creepy bunch folks. What we do is NOT normal as far as mainstream society is concerned. So save your sanctimonious attitudes for Sunday.

If you're a T-girl who enjoys the company of men than I've got news for ya; The Admirers are your only option. The average straight guy does not want to encounter your penis, no matter how hot you may be. Now before I get hammered, I said AVERAGE. I am willing to recognize those rare souls that are able to transcend the body for the sake of love, if you are willing to recognize that exception as a rarity.

There are perfectly good men out there who for whatever reason, prefer T-girls over real girls. Are they deeply closeted homosexuals? Are they frustrated trannies? Are they politicians?

They are just men who are attracted to what they are attracted to. Sure, some of them can be creepy but if I were being honest, I would have to say that there are more than a few gurls on this very site who creep me out as much or more than the creepiest "chaser" I've ever met. Some of you should read your posts a couple of times before you click Submit.

So the "admirers" are just objectifying me? So what? Women have been objectified sexually since the first other woman. If a man looks at me with desire does that mean there is something wrong with him? Excuse me? Am I not allowed to be desired?

The very idea that there is something wrong with a group of men who prefer T-girls is the reason they exist in the first place.

Okay, that's a little deep, but follow me; If the world were a more accepting place and people weren't held to such rigid sexual standards then there would be no need for labels. A man could date a TG or a GG and there would be no raised eyebrows. He's just a man who likes a certain look or type and that's the end of it. Imagine living in a world where you could just date someone who you found attractive and interesting, and the sexuality would be determined by that relationship, rather than by society. There would be no need for chasers in a world like that. :daydreaming:

Back to reality, and reality sucks, because any man who has a preference for T-girls is automatically labeled a "chaser" and by definition must be creepy and predatory. That's not fair and frankly some of you girls may need to take a broom to your own doorsteps before you start with the judging.

You know, as a group we are by and large just as intolerant as the straight world and I can't decide if that's disappointing or comforting.

-Misty

[t-girlxsophie]

Any time Iv'e been confronted by an "Admirer" has not been the most Pleasurable of experiences,Usually first question is "are you wearing Stockings" and they get more leery from there on,Mind you after some Rather Industrial language (not ladylike I know) They are soon sent Packing,I know some will say they not all bad,but that aint my Impression of these Men,I am sure GGs prob feel the same when Leered at by Builders etc in the street.

[AmandaM]

Many admirers think that cause you dress up, you're gay and cruising for sex. Similar to women who wear short skirts, "she must want it, look how she's dressed".


I'm curious. What is the best way to deal with the undesirable sort? I have no problem with people of different sexual orientations or "kinks", though I am only attracted to women and am completely faithful to my wife. When I go out in public, which I haven't yet, I would like to know how to best handle the situation. I don't want to be unpleasant to the purely friendly people, so other than reverting to guy mode - which might tend to escalate things - what tips do people have? I imagine the GGs on the list are used to dealing with this and will have some valuable insights.

Thanks
Kara

Just have to tell them sorry, not interested, and be determined about it. About the third time, you'll probably have to man up and say something like, back off jack. imo

[Crissy Kay]

Wow, what an interesting topic. Though my point of view is sort of from the admirers side!!! I do not chase or date tgirls, but I really admir all the effort you full time girls put in to looking good. If you are going to dress up and go out you are bound to attract some mens attention. What I do not understand, is why go to all the trouble, if you do not want anything to do with men. There are some creeps out there, no doubt about it. All I can say is just be careful, when you do go out.

[sherri52]

That's why when I go out I usually go to a resturaunt or club that doesn't cater to any special group. There always seem to be admirers in those places. I get looks but usually no one gauking.

[Rebecca Petersen]

Just getting drool on my pretty dress would creep me out!!

Didn't Monica Lewinski say something similar?
Sorry, but guess we all have our own likes and dislikes.
Rebecca

[Sarah_GG]

I'm not saying there's anything wrong in admiring per se. My SO also admires fabulous crossdressers, drag queens, transvestites and transexuals. In fact, spends quite a lot of time paying homage to the fifties girls from the Finnochio era!

What I don't like is that they swamp a venue, don't join in, look sweaty and slimy and lurk at the edges of the action with their eyes on stalks and dribble coming out of the corners of their mouths.

If an admirer wanted to impress a gurl all he would have to do is scrub up well, put on a suitably gentlemanly type of outfit (something that might complement a burlesque ensemble) and ask one of them to dance!

It seems they make absolutely zero effort but are still guaranteed a good end to the evening. Can't they at least be encouraged to work a bit harder for the end result?!

[dilane]

I found myself questioning what it is about these individuals that I find... well, a bit creepy. For starters I think it's because everyone else makes a real effort and dresses up, but the admirers don't make any effort at all. I also find that they seem to 'letch' and drool a bit too much.

I think admirers are behaving the way many straight men would behave if GG's were as desperate for sexplay as many T-girls in the clubs are. Basically, women keep men somewhat in line.

When you see a line of letchering, silent, leering "chasers" at a T club, you're getting a glimpse of the brave new world that could be -- but for the fact that women simply don't put up with that kind of behavior in general. They would complain to the management, or would simply stop coming.

I started going out to T-clubs (the late Queen Mary in LA), and now I go to straight places. I've found the men who come over to chat or buy a drink to be similar whether they're chasers in a T-club, a straight guy who hasn't read me, or a guy in a straight club who has read me.

However, someone with T-girl experience will assume that we will be much more likely than a GG to hop into bed for a free drink -- something I obviously disabuse them of.

Also, in straight clubs there are plenty of guys who make no effort to dress up, and who take in the scene and check out the women -- but in a less creepy and rude way.

[Joann Smith]

I have ran across some that were sweet and were genuinely looking to for a serious relationship with someone and it did not matter if they were GG or TG ...But that has been rare ...most of the "admires"...if you want to call them that have ran across have been wack jobs of the worst kind ... just wanting to do strange things to you ...or have you do it to them...in either case I want no part of it and i have gotten pretty good at backing them off without pissing them off too bad...I try to be careful because some of them are seriously out there and they could be dangerous if provoked ...

Joann

[CherryZips]

If you are going to dress up and go out you are bound to attract some mens attention.

Agreed. Men are going to be attracted by anyone on the T spectrum. And actually I think not because its because they can pretend to be straight or gay. Men are attracted to Tgirls for their T ness.

While trans behavior is taboo I think their "creepiness" is because attraction to trans is also taboo so the social rules for dealing with it are unwritten.



What I do not understand, is why go to all the trouble, if you do not want anything to do with men.

I have a slight problem with this. For a start it implies that should any Tgirls appear in public they are really looking for attention from men. I think there are transgender lesbians who might question that.

Secondly its an issue of choice. "Why go to all the trouble, if you do not want anything to do with men" is what male predators say about women in short skirts. People of any sex and sexuality have the right to decline an offer and not be harassed.



There are some creeps out there, no doubt about it. All I can say is just be careful, when you do go out.

Agreed. In same ways thats the main issue.

[msginaadoll]

What Misty said!!! I couldnt have put it better. I dont want to lump any group of people in the same boat. Its like saying all CD's are gay, all admirerers are creepy, all leperchauns are Irish. Some men at bars i have realized have a hard time talking to women, CD's etc. Heck when you are as intimidatingly beautiful as we all arel it can be tuff. I was once told by a friend that when they met me they thought I was initially stuck up. I was shy but they took my shyness as something else. Well maybe the men who just stare or look are shy too. It is tough for me but I am gradually accepting that when dressed a man may find me attractive. Thats a tough thing ladies and there are a lot of very lovely ladies here. Face up u may have to just uglify yourself if you wish to be let alone!

[AllieSF]

I agree with what Kaitlyn said and what Gina just mentioned about shyness. I think first we have several terms for men I (maybe women too looking for a FtM, not my area of expertise!), Admirer, Tranny Chaser, lecher, etc. I think that the term Admirer is correct for those people who are attracted to someone dressed as the opposite sex. A Tranny Chaser for me is less admirable from the nice human being viewpoint, while a lecher is just that regardless of who he/she is looking/leering at. I have talked to a few admirers and in reality, though they may appear to be lurking along the sidelines, they are just shy and nice people. If a Tgirl, or anyone for that matter, wants someone and is in the right venue, they do not have to wait for someone to walk up to them. They can approach them directly to check them out. Also, I think that Tgirls have some similar power as to a GG. if someone does approach them, they can always decline the invitation. And, finally, there are those Tranny Chasers and lechers out there, and like anywhere else, it is probably best to just ignore them. Oops, another finally! There are kinds of venues for going out as a Tperson, but in reality very few that give the Admirer and Chaser the opportunity to actually see several Tpeople all in one place.

[Empress Lainie]

The one that blew me away was a young guy that I had danced with several times one night, and at the end of the last dance he knelt in front of me and bowed his head to the floor.

If I had a sword I would have knighted him!

This guy couldn't have been over 25, I'm was 73 and he treated me like I was his age.

[MsJanessa]

Admirers are like any other guy---as any GG will tell you some guys are just plain creepy--and some are quite nice--really depends on the individual--are most of them are looking to hook up some are just more subtle about it---but if you go to any straight singles bar, most of the guys there are looking to hook up--I think it has more to do with being male, than whether you like T-Girls or GGs

[michelle_melb]

I dont know what all the fuss is about male admirers - yes i have met some creeps but i dare say they treat GG's the same way. I have also met some very kind and understanding men, one of whom impressed upon me that i was the same person whether i be in a business suit or a dress and who has since become a really good friend.
xx Michelle

[ReineD]

So the "admirers" are just objectifying me? So what? Women have been objectified sexually since the first other woman. If a man looks at me with desire does that mean there is something wrong with him? Excuse me? Am I not allowed to be desired?


What I don't understand, creepiness or non-creepiness aside, is if a TG is interested in men, presumably it is as a woman? In other words she wants to be wanted by a man who sees her as a woman (else why bother dressing)?

So why doesn't the fantasy fall apart when she also knows that the very reason an admirer wants her is because of her penis? In other words, he doesn't want to be with a woman, but with a guy in a dress. Else he'd be chasing GGs.

Maybe I'm looking at it all wrong, but if I were in that CD's shoes I would find this discouraging. Just knowing what the admirer really wants would shatter my entire reasons for expressing myself as a woman.

Does anyone know if the admirers we're talking about are also interested in post-op TSs?

[Sarah_GG]

So why doesn't the fantasy fall apart when she also knows that the very reason an admirer wants her is because of her penis? In other words, he doesn't want to be with a woman, but with a guy in a dress. Else he'd be chasing GGs.

I'm probably about to be shot down in flames here... but frankly these guys couldn't get a GG and because they know the buttons to press to get a CDer - meaning that they're only interested in getting laid - because some CDers have this desperate urge to be 'treated like a lady' when dressed, they are sitting ducks for the admirers.

I'm sorry, as a collective bunch they are odd and creepy. They are only after sex and, as their social skills are non-existent, they don't have to make any effort to get it with some CDers. I'm not saying that's wrong - some CDers only want sex too, so it all fits and everyone's happy. But that attitude brings the general tone down to a seedy level that isn't appropriate for this type of night out. This particular venue is NOT a specifically tranny gig. The frequenters "are a pretty diverse bunch of all ages - straight, gay, trans, and everything in between. It's all very tongue-in-cheek, and no-one takes themselves too seriously..."

If this event becomes swamped with 'admirers' then I, for one, am not interested in going. There are plenty of exclusively trans clubs around that aren't particularly nice places to go to for that very reason.

[Suzy Harrison]

Out in public, I get guys looking at me now and again and I'm fine with it. I'm sure most of them think I'm a GG and will just look, but will not nterfere.

However on one occasion, a taxi driver who realised I was TG, suggested he should come back to my hotel room for sex. It was as if because I was TG, I would welcome sex from any one who offered. Not nice.

[Satrana]

because some CDers have this desperate urge to be 'treated like a lady' when dressed, they are sitting ducks for the admirers.

Makes sense to me, after all what choice does a CD have if he wants to have that type of experience? It would be more risky to seek attention at a straight joint.

Also some CDs are quite happy with the fact that they are male so it is not an issue that the admirer is after them because they are hiding a penis under their skirt. They just want to feel desired and enjoy the ultimate scenario.

I think the ones who may find admirers creepy are either just expressing their heterosexuality or just don't like the attention.

T-clubs will always be pick-up joints and as more Tgirls come out of the woodwork I would expect this issue will only grow in size. If you are after something safe then normal venues would be a better choice especially for couples.

[Rogina B]

As far as my thoughts,Misty was right on! And I'll add that sometimes admirers have a fetish for some of "our look"[foundations,stockings,etc] that have gone by the wayside in the real GG world. So, we become a walking,talking ,model for them to enjoy.Something that is impossible in the real world. Enjoy the attention,it is only bad if you make it that way!:2c:

[Sarah_GG]

T-clubs will always be pick-up joints and as more Tgirls come out of the woodwork I would expect this issue will only grow in size. If you are after something safe then normal venues would be a better choice especially for couples.

Exactly. That's what I said. This venue isn't a specifically tranny night out. It's been set up as more of a dressing up and dancing night. The music is fabulous and many of the outfits amazing. The admirers just bring the tone down - they don't dress up, they don't dance and there's too many of them.

If anyone wants easy sex (and doesn't want to pay for it) there are plenty of joints geared to that end. But many of us don't.

[Blaire]

Admirer, chaser; crossdresser, transvestite... Isn't it amazing how much sugar we'll put on words to sweeten them up?

Way back when, I found they, "admirers", came in one of two types: the "Hi, how are you" type, and the "What are you wearing" type. I'd say the latter outnumbered the former significantly, at least from what I've seen. I'm sure that like everything else, there's another side to everyone and everything.

I have no idea what the face-to-face scene is like, so temper this accordingly.

The former may be a patient version of the latter, or may actually be a nice guy. The latter thinks we're here to give him some. I mean, we're guys dressed like girls, and the only reason to do that is because we don't have an "ask me, I'm easy" sign that's light enough to carry around. :rofl:

As for the people drooling on the sidelines... he either wants to join in and show off his new lacy undies too, but he's afraid that his buddy that gave him a ride to the club "just wouldn't understand;" or they can't be bothered, knowing that their reason for being there will get fulfilled regardless of themselves.



So why doesn't the fantasy fall apart when she also knows that the very reason an admirer wants her is because of her penis? In other words, he doesn't want to be with a woman, but with a guy in a dress. Else he'd be chasing GGs.


That's not the reason the admirer wants her. He just doesn't care that she has one. Doesn't matter to him either way. GG, CD, TG, whatever. For him, they all have one thing in common: a desire to be in the... receptive position. The "admirer" is just looking for the faster cheaper way to get it.

[Sheila]

As far as my thoughts,Misty was right on! And I'll add that sometimes admirers have a fetish for some of "our look"[foundations,stockings,etc] that have gone by the wayside in the real GG world. So, we become a walking,talking ,model for them to enjoy.Something that is impossible in the real world. Enjoy the attention,it is only bad if you make it that way!:2c:

Sarah said
We went along to a regular event last night - magic-theatre.co.uk - but found that it wasn't as good as it usually is. The reason (we think?) is because there were a lot of 'admirers' or 'tranny chasers' there.

Where does that equate to GG's not wearing stockings etc in the real world ......... this was a specific dress up night, TG and GG were dressed, Sarah does not mention the GG's were being admired or chased, but the TG

[eluuzion]

I agree with the basic premise Misty presented (if I interpreted it correctly). Basically, "it is what it is".

You can't go to a circus and not expect to see clowns. Plus you do not have to join a circus to be a clown.

When you venture outside of the "mainstream", it is unrealistic to expect behavior to be "mainstream". It is just the price of admission. Regardless of what the key issue of a particular "group or community" may be, if it falls outside the boundries of society norms, it naturally attracts many of those with interests that do not exactly fall within the normal expectations of those in mainstream society.

I think it is illogical and unrealistic to expect the same respect, interaction and acceptance that GGs experience in mainstream society, when we are not a part of the mainstream. Common sense to me. It would be nice, but so would not having to work, yet having an endless supply of money in my bank account, lol.

There are all types of people, in any segment of life you choose to reside or visit. Just like everything else, you deal with the good and bad that comes with the party you attend. There are challenges everywhere in life, and happiness is determined by your attitude and what you choose to focus on.

just my thoughts.

:love:

[Sarah_GG]

Back to reality, and reality sucks, because any man who has a preference for T-girls is automatically labeled a "chaser" and by definition must be creepy and predatory. That's not fair and frankly some of you girls may need to take a broom to your own doorsteps before you start with the judging.

I disagree. I don't think any man who has a preference for T-girls is automatically labelled a 'chaser'. I keep on repeating that. What I have an issue with - out of prejudice, ignorance, fear, loathing... whatever - is a particular type of of person who thinks that a tranny is an easy option and guarantee of sex.

It seems that the consensus is fairly evenly divided - those who agree that these guys are a bit creepy and those who're quite happy to have them around.

Perhaps it's up to the venue to enforce a stricter dress code - these guys never dress with any effort - and consider an entrance fee hike, since they apparently don't like to spend much money either. The one thing that's made this night out so much fun has been the diversity of attendees. If that diversity shrinks down to just trannies and admirers... well, it changes the whole dynamic.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

i am still loving this thread and learning alot...i wish some more folks that like trans people would chime in...

one observation is that in a setting where there are transfolk, there simply is not that many guys showing up, and some of them are wracked with the same guilt and shame issues we tend to have...and many of them are married or have SO's and they are doing this in secret...ummmmm, do any of you do this in secret? i know the answer, and i also know that you do it with a wonderful disguise of a totally different persona and your chance of getting caught out at the party is much less...

in a typical meat market bar...those lurking guys are a dime a dozen but there are soooo many guys that they don't stand out as much...

yes the stereotypical guys in trenchcoats that come up and ask if your boobs are real dont get it..and it's obvious that is all Sarah was saying in her post

unfortunately...for those of us that look down on the "Creepy" guys, now you know how some folks feel about us..:straightface:

[Sarah_GG]

unfortunately...for those of us that look down on the "Creepy" guys, now you know how some folks feel about us..:straightface:

And unfortunately you're probably right. Part of that, I suspect, is to do with the furtiveness of the CDers themselves. Add the 'chasers' to the mix and you end up with an unpleasant environment to be in. A down and seedy atmosphere.

Those who're able to celebrate their transgenderism, go out and about and dress and seem to have a healthy (or healthier) level of self-respect. It's what we try to instill in teenage girls - don't give yourself away so easily, value yourself and others will value you too.

[willowgurl]

This may be a little surprising because I date Men all the time, but it seems those who call themselves admirers are creepy indeed wanting only a quick, well you know. Willow

[Sheila]

I think it is illogical and unrealistic to expect the same respect, interaction and acceptance that GGs experience in mainstream society,

But why are you not a human being, entitled to the same common curtesy and respect as any other human ? :confused:


Don't give yourself away so easily, value yourself and others will value you too.

Now that is sound advice :)

[5150 Girl]

I found myself questioning what it is about these individuals that I find... well, a bit creepy.
I also find that they seem to 'letch' and drool a bit too much.

Agreed! Yes, there are a few gentlemen out there,,, but as a rule, (see above)

[DonniDarkness]

Hmmmm, lets recap 3 pages

Judges say....wait we have a late vote coming in.....here we are...

Introverts!!!....wait what does that mean announcer guy...

It means:

Definition: Contrary to what most people think, an introvert is not simply a person who is shy. In fact, being shy has little to do with being an introvert! Shyness has an element of apprehension, nervousness and anxiety, and while an introvert may also be shy, introversion itself is not shyness. Basically, an introvert is a person who is energized by being alone and whose energy is drained by being around other people.

Introverts are more concerned with the inner world of the mind. They enjoy thinking, exploring their thoughts and feelings. They often avoid social situations because being around people drains their energy. This is true even if they have good social skills. After being with people for any length of time, such as at a party, they need time alone to "recharge."

Whew! So in other words Mr announcer guy, all of us are introverts for being uncomfortable around the very ppl that we either seek to meet or seek to meet us....

So how do we deal with it?

Dont let other people get to you......
Dont let others ruin your good time....

People can be creepy anywhere, it seems to me that a single person would be lonley forever if they chased off every person who chased them.... just saying

-Donni-

[Misty is Kindafem]

This may be a little surprising because I date Men all the time, but it seems those who call themselves admirers are creepy indeed wanting only a quick, well you know. Willow

You date men all the time but you don't like "admirers"? Your dates don't like trannies?

Listen T-girls, this is not fantasy land. We have MEN'S bodies. I know how we may feel about that, but the sad reality is that Mr hunky straight man is NOT going to date us openly. He is NOT going to introduce us to his friends. There are plenty of great looking and interesting guys out there who like T-girls but apparently the problem with them is they LIKE T-GIRLS so they're just too damn creepy.

My favorite guys are the ones who look, act and identify as "straight" but let's be serious here. I know and you know and they know that what we do together in bed isn't exactly "straight". It's not exactly gay either but that's because we're T-girls!

Some of these guys are indeed awful and they have about as much chance of getting under my skirt as they would Sarah's but just because a third of this group is disgusting doesn't mean the other guys aren't worthwhile.

Somebody brought up the undercover CD's who are out in secret and probably cheating on their wives. So maybe they hook up with some of these grubbier chasers. They deserve each other as far as I'm concerned, but they're grown up people doing grown up things.

I have had a fling or two, but it's ALWAYS on my terms. I'm not desperate for male attention as somebody said, but if I want to go out and play with the boys, and if I find myself attracted to someone, and if I end up sleeping with them, then I'm afraid that's just what's gonna happen and there's not a whole lot you're gonna do about it.

I don't need another mother, I'm not all that impressed with the one I was born with.

Sarah, I generally love your posts but we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. I hear what you're saying and I even agree with your opinion of some of these losers but I think you're way overboard with your characterization of men who like T-girls and the T-girls who date them. I submit that EVERY man who would openly date one of us is an admirer. If he didn't appreciate our unique difference then he wouldn't want to be with us. What is so wrong with that?

Reine, the reason the fantasy doesn't fall apart is because the fantasy doesn't go that deep. When I'm with a man, I know he knows what my anatomy has in store for him. He knows I know and neither of us pretend. Some guys like to ignore it, some guys don't. Each one of us has different needs and desires. My femininity is innate. I feel the way I feel no matter what I'm wearing or who I'm with. I have a penis so I use it. What else am I supposed to do with it? I don't have another way of getting it done. I will say that if a guy seems overly interested in that tiny appendage then I tend to lose interest in him and he won't be getting any happy time. ...but that's just me and there are many many gurls who know how to wield the sword if you know what I mean.

I also feel like I need to say that my opinions are firmly rooted in the CD/part time tranny perspective. The rules may change a bit for those girls that are full time and/or pre-op. I personally know some ladies that have had relationships with men that might have been otherwise straight. My presentation isn't quite there yet. :Angry3:

-Misty

[ReineD]

Well, you cleared that up! :D Thanks Misty. :hugs:

[Fab Karen]

You date men all the time but you don't like "admirers"? Your dates don't like trannies?

Listen T-girls, this is not fantasy land. We have MEN'S bodies. I know how we may feel about that, but the sad reality is that Mr hunky straight man is NOT going to date us openly. He is NOT going to introduce us to his friends. There are plenty of great looking and interesting guys out there who like T-girls but apparently the problem with them is they LIKE T-GIRLS so they're just too damn creepy.

My favorite guys are the ones who look, act and identify as "straight" but let's be serious here. I know and you know and they know that what we do together in bed isn't exactly "straight". It's not exactly gay either but that's because we're T-girls!

Some of these guys are indeed awful and they have about as much chance of getting under my skirt as they would Sarah's but just because a third of this group is disgusting doesn't mean the other guys aren't worthwhile.

Somebody brought up the undercover CD's who are out in secret and probably cheating on their wives. So maybe they hook up with some of these grubbier chasers. They deserve each other as far as I'm concerned, but they're grown up people doing grown up things.

I have had a fling or two, but it's ALWAYS on my terms. I'm not desperate for male attention as somebody said, but if I want to go out and play with the boys, and if I find myself attracted to someone, and if I end up sleeping with them, then I'm afraid that's just what's gonna happen and there's not a whole lot you're gonna do about it.

I don't need another mother, I'm not all that impressed with the one I was born with.

Sarah, I generally love your posts but we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. I hear what you're saying and I even agree with your opinion of some of these losers but I think you're way overboard with your characterization of men who like T-girls and the T-girls who date them. I submit that EVERY man who would openly date one of us is an admirer. If he didn't appreciate our unique difference then he wouldn't want to be with us. What is so wrong with that?

Reine, the reason the fantasy doesn't fall apart is because the fantasy doesn't go that deep. When I'm with a man, I know he knows what my anatomy has in store for him. He knows I know and neither of us pretend. Some guys like to ignore it, some guys don't. Each one of us has different needs and desires. My femininity is innate. I feel the way I feel no matter what I'm wearing or who I'm with. I have a penis so I use it. What else am I supposed to do with it? I don't have another way of getting it done. I will say that if a guy seems overly interested in that tiny appendage then I tend to lose interest in him and he won't be getting any happy time. ...but that's just me and there are many many gurls who know how to wield the sword if you know what I mean.

I also feel like I need to say that my opinions are firmly rooted in the CD/part time tranny perspective. The rules may change a bit for those girls that are full time and/or pre-op. I personally know some ladies that have had relationships with men that might have been otherwise straight. My presentation isn't quite there yet. :Angry3:

-Misty

You said it all, girl. :hugs:

[Barbara Dugan]

You date men all the time but you don't like "admirers"? Your dates don't like trannies?

Listen T-girls, this is not fantasy land. We have MEN'S bodies. I know how we may feel about that, but the sad reality is that Mr hunky straight man is NOT going to date us openly. He is NOT going to introduce us to his friends. There are plenty of great looking and interesting guys out there who like T-girls but apparently the problem with them is they LIKE T-GIRLS so they're just too damn creepy.

My favorite guys are the ones who look, act and identify as "straight" but let's be serious here. I know and you know and they know that what we do together in bed isn't exactly "straight". It's not exactly gay either but that's because we're T-girls!

Some of these guys are indeed awful and they have about as much chance of getting under my skirt as they would Sarah's but just because a third of this group is disgusting doesn't mean the other guys aren't worthwhile.

Somebody brought up the undercover CD's who are out in secret and probably cheating on their wives. So maybe they hook up with some of these grubbier chasers. They deserve each other as far as I'm concerned, but they're grown up people doing grown up things.

I have had a fling or two, but it's ALWAYS on my terms. I'm not desperate for male attention as somebody said, but if I want to go out and play with the boys, and if I find myself attracted to someone, and if I end up sleeping with them, then I'm afraid that's just what's gonna happen and there's not a whole lot you're gonna do about it.

I don't need another mother, I'm not all that impressed with the one I was born with.

Sarah, I generally love your posts but we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. I hear what you're saying and I even agree with your opinion of some of these losers but I think you're way overboard with your characterization of men who like T-girls and the T-girls who date them. I submit that EVERY man who would openly date one of us is an admirer. If he didn't appreciate our unique difference then he wouldn't want to be with us. What is so wrong with that?

Reine, the reason the fantasy doesn't fall apart is because the fantasy doesn't go that deep. When I'm with a man, I know he knows what my anatomy has in store for him. He knows I know and neither of us pretend. Some guys like to ignore it, some guys don't. Each one of us has different needs and desires. My femininity is innate. I feel the way I feel no matter what I'm wearing or who I'm with. I have a penis so I use it. What else am I supposed to do with it? I don't have another way of getting it done. I will say that if a guy seems overly interested in that tiny appendage then I tend to lose interest in him and he won't be getting any happy time. ...but that's just me and there are many many gurls who know how to wield the sword if you know what I mean.

I also feel like I need to say that my opinions are firmly rooted in the CD/part time tranny perspective. The rules may change a bit for those girls that are full time and/or pre-op. I personally know some ladies that have had relationships with men that might have been otherwise straight. My presentation isn't quite there yet. :Angry3:

-Misty



I agree with Karen , Misty said it all and I love when says ''My femininity is innate. I feel the way I feel no matter what I'm wearing or who I'm with'' because I feel the same way . I have to admit that I never had sex in my life with either men or women before I started dressing. because my lack of experience I ran across some of the creepy admirers and made one or two mistakes but I consider it a learning experience on the other hand I have met some really interesting guys that know pretty well what they are getting into.

[NatalieBliss]

I am heterosexual. For me it's flattering to be found attractive even if you aren't interested in the gender of those proposing. I mean who doesn't like knowing that others find them attractive?

I have been hit on by admirers that are creepy, but I have had some "patient wolves" as well. The worst of it comes from online.

[Sarah_GG]

Sarah, I generally love your posts but we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. I hear what you're saying and I even agree with your opinion of some of these losers but I think you're way overboard with your characterization of men who like T-girls and the T-girls who date them. I submit that EVERY man who would openly date one of us is an admirer. If he didn't appreciate our unique difference then he wouldn't want to be with us. What is so wrong with that?

Well, "these losers" clearly do float quite a few people's boats so they're obviously here to stay.

They clearly serve a purpose and have their place within transgendered society, but I'm afraid their general creepiness (and many posts have agreed that they are more often than not a bit sleazy) will probably inhibit many SOs from becoming involved in TG events.

That maybe an "overboard characterisation" but I'm certainly not the first to make the observation. Every book that I've read on TG mentions these 'tranny chasers' in derogatory terms.

[kellycan27]

How many of you protesters would be adverse to being approached by another male period? With all of the "I am not gay" disclaimers floating around this site, it kind of makes me wonder if your so called straightness might make you think that people who might be open minded enough to want to have a relationship with a TG person....... to be creepy.
I have run into my share of strange people too, and believe it or not a lot of them have been crossdressers, as well as some other TS folks.
Seems a little odd to me that if someone doesn't like fish..why they would want to hang out at the fishmarket, and then complain about the smell. :strugglin

[Sarah_GG]

Please do NOT misinterpret my posts as being anti men who want to have sex with T-girls.

REPEAT... I do NOT find men who want to have sex with T-girls creepy.

I am just talking about a specific, easily-recognised, type (ie a tranny chaser) at a specific type of event.

:brolleyes:

[Misty is Kindafem]

Well, "these losers" clearly do float quite a few people's boats so they're obviously here to stay.


Well, this is a matter of semantics then isn't it?

The dudes as you describe them, wouldn't float anybody's boat. Certainly not anyone I know

The real problem is more along the lines of what Kelly said. A lot of your support is coming from the self professed heteros. Some of it is even coming from people who's sole experience with men or "chasers" is online. So they're only "virtually" disgusted by these awful men. Since when is it a shocker that a hetero guy is disgusted by the idea of sex with a man anyway?

I think we can all agree that any girl with self respect isn't going to jump in the arms of some greasy fat guy with all the charm and appeal of a greasy fat guy.

Consider if the "creepy" guy looked like George Clooney. So there's George over there at the end of the bar and I can't help but notice he keeps checking me out. He's kinda scruffy and unshaven and he's wearing jeans and boots and a rumpled Tshirt. I walk by to get a closer look, and to give him a closer look at me, and I notice that he smells a little bit like he's been working all day. After about an hour, of him staring at me, I finally get up the nerve to walk over and say hi and ask why he's eyeball stalking me.
So he tells me he's sorry, but he's always been interested in girls like me but he's too shy and too scared (phobic) to say anything. He's been staring because I was the prettiest one he's ever seen. Awwwww I say, and I sit down to hear more. :battingeyelashes:

He's a guy who's just terrified of his own desire. Anybody here know anything about that feeling?

Anyway, my point is, if he looks like Clooney, everything changes. It's like what Chris Rock said about Clarence Thomas; "if he looked like Denzel, than we would have never heard anything about it."

Also, how many of the hets are still disgusted by the description of a scruffy sexy George? The girls, who like men are all about meeting that guy, but the ones who don't are just hoping I don't describe the kiss. (which was wonderful by the way).

Basically what's creepy to one person is just another guy to someone else. Some guys look at me and are hopefully attracted, while some guys look at me and see a dude with makeup on. Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder after all right?

Misty may be barely a year old, but I've been a practicing homo/bi sexual for a long time (I've seen kittens and a cockatoo) and I can tell you that there is nothing inherently creepy or weird about guys that prefer TG chicks. Some guys do NOT want their man in a dress and some guys want their man ONLY in a dress. Different strokes folks. Who am I to judge? I'm a guy that wishes he was a girl!!

Whatever gets ya through the night baby.

-Misty

[Sarah_GG]

.... unique... deliciously glamorous.... mysteriously infrequent... and very, VERY good fun...

Created for a happy-dancing wildly mixed crowd of all romantic inclinations and gender identities, who come together to make a Grand Entrance, and to flaunt, flirt and pose in the finery of their choosing in the finest venues London has to offer...
Ladies
The perfect place for all you Cinderellas and Style Queens, Pink Princesses and Leggy Latex Babes… Audrey Hepburns and Barbarellas, TV's, Saucy Secretaries and Rock Chicks…Whether you’re a Goth Girl, Dowager, French Maid or Precocious Teen Queen, Marie Antoinette, or Marilyn Monroe,the Magic Theatre is YOUR stage.
Gentlemen
Retro Glamour, Uniforms, Lounge Lizards, Gentlemen of the Cloth, Fauns, B-Movie Stars, Prince Charmings, Pirates and Dandies of all kinds…Arise, Sir Galahad, kneel before Zod, come out, come out you Peter Pans, Dick Turpins and Darcys. You are welcome here…

Did you read 'computer geek with dribble down a cheesy smelling patterned jumper'? No. The point I'm making is that if one can't be bothered to make any effort whatsoever in the spirit of the evening like any of the above then don't go to this gig... just go to the 'fish market'!

And certainly none of these guys looked like George Clooney. :D

[Gerrijerry]

Ok on this one I have to say I have never meet a so called admirer that was not out for just one thing. obviously you girls know what that is. I have meet guys who obviously didn't know I was transgender and talked with me as they would with any woman. That has happened only when I was at a place like a movie or show or a museam and I was not looking of course being happily married

[StarrOfDelite]

Whatever gets ya through the night baby.

-Misty

Thanks Misty, this is probably the smartest and most comprehensive comment in this entire thread. Thanks for the words of wisdom.

[Sarah_GG]

Thanks Misty, this is probably the smartest and most comprehensive comment in this entire thread. Thanks for the words of wisdom.

You forgot to add "in my humble opinion".

[StarrOfDelite]

You forgot to add "in my humble opinion".

In my case I usually add "imnsho" since the humble genes were left out at the moment of conception. :battingeyelashes:

p.s. edit: I do understand the complaints you have about the sloppy, seedy guys who drag down the general tone of a social affair. They aren't my cup of tea. I've never been out and about in London, but if you went to the event you described and found that it was infested with slobs, don't you think that your complaint would be more effectively directed towards the organizers of the event you described for not enforcing a dress code or something similar. If the organizers don't want to do that it might indicate either that the event can't succeed financially without the Admirers, or that other attendees like having them there.

Personally, I would rather have my bikini line shaved with a cheap, rusty Walmart razor than attend any event with lots and lots of CD's and TV's. I've been to the Pridefest in Key West, and once is enough. Like the Irish Rover, no, nay, never, no, nay, never, no more.

[tricia_uktv]

I'm afraid they are more scared than we are

[Deborah Jane]

Personally, I would rather have my bikini line shaved with a cheap, rusty Walmart razor than attend any event with lots and lots of CD's and TV's. I've been to the Pridefest in Key West, and once is enough. Like the Irish Rover, no, nay, never, no, nay, never, no more.

I'm surprised you even grace us with your presence on this forum considering your opinion of CD's and TV's. Or maybe you consider yourself above the rest of us here?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Personally, I would rather have my bikini line shaved with a cheap, rusty Walmart razor than attend any event with lots and lots of CD's and TV's. I've been to the Pridefest in Key West, and once is enough. Like the Irish Rover, no, nay, never, no, nay, never, no more.

simply awful...shame on you ..trust me they don't want you there either.
+++++
btw ...i was catching up on this thread...it still bugs me that folks jump on the admirers are creepy bandwagon..its so hypocritical

what the heck does it mean to say admirers are only after one thing and when you are at a movie or museum or whereever guys come up and talk to you like "any" woman?

i have been hit on by crossdressers in a cheerleader outfit, chomping a cigar and wearing a bra on the outside...i didnt say those crossdressers sure are creepy, they only want one thing...(altho it was a sight to behold)...

i never went out for many years...the first time ever i went to a drag show, and quitely drank vodka's in my flannel shirt and philadelphia eagles hoodie...i was quaking in fear, confusion and shame the whole time...have a heart...most of these guys are just like me and you.

[Fab Karen]

Anyway, my point is, if he looks like Clooney, everything changes.

If wishes are being granted, can he look like Pierce Brosnan?:)

"Whatever gets ya through the night
it's alright, it's alright"
The wisdom of John Lennon

[docrobbysherry]

How many of you protesters would be adverse to being approached by another male period? With all of the "I am not gay" disclaimers floating around this site, it kind of makes me wonder if your so called straightness might make you think that people who might be open minded enough to want to have a relationship with a TG person....... to be creepy.
I have run into my share of strange people too, and believe it or not a lot of them have been crossdressers, as well as some other TS folks.
Seems a little odd to me that if someone doesn't like fish..why they would want to hang out at the fishmarket, and then complain about the smell. :strugglin

I'm with Kelly! If you're CD/TG, and you're attracted to others like u, why would u think men who have the SAME attraction r ODD!?:eek:

Personally, I'm not attracted to males, regardless of how they're dressed! But, I get hit on A LOT at other sites!:sad:

Some of them r SO CUTE AND SWEET! I enjoy getting to know a few of them. But, only as a guy! :heehee:

I simply block the gross ones! Why can't u all just do the SAME? :brolleyes:

[ReineD]

Misty, do you think this description of admirers is accurate? Is it biased? The author is Alice Novic (Alice in Genderland). The entire site (http://www.aliceingenderland.com/index.html) is an interesting read.

The quote below is from "Going on a Manhunt: The Two Types of Men Who Might Be Interested" ("Going on a Manhunt:
The Two Types of Men Who Might Be Interested"):


Each admirer is a bird unable to fly [refers to being a CD in denial]. Maybe he’s flown before? Maybe he’ll develop tail feathers of his own and shake them around in style in the future? But for now he’s limited by something. And that same thing that keeps him from being a terribly happening woman may be what’s keeping him from being an especially happening man.

That’s why admirers tend to be a heavier and older bunch of men. It would make sense if they were also taller, though I haven’t seen that near as much as I’d like. Some may have their wings clipped by lack of a steady job, car, or apartment. Many are married and unable to get out except under the rarest of circumstances. Some may be constrained by psychological baggage, religious guilt, or macho ethnic tradition.

...

Then you’ll want to watch out for him trying to make you a secret playmate that he never has to take out, or him paying too much attention to your original equipment and losing interest if you go for GRS. And then there’s the final risk of him being around a joyful, self-actualizing trans-person: he may want to blossom himself someday. Would you want him to dress up with you? Maybe you’d be okay if he did it quietly when you’re not around?

[Gretchenivy]

admirers, like the general population, come in all different, shapes, sizes, and personalities. there's a lot of diversity. and i enjoy diversity.

generally, the clubs i go to are open enough that the men generally aren't overly creepy. but, i have run into some pretty creepy ones. just like i run into some creepy dudes just about anywhere. men are often poorly dressed and often don't take care of themselves, and i'll probably always complain about that. yet, i find myself attracted to men nonetheless.

i agree that men should learn to shower more, smell better and take better care of themselves. would all stalkers pay as much attention to their grooming as us girls, it would be a kinder gentler club scene out there wouldn't it?

[Misty is Kindafem]

Misty, do you think this description of admirers is accurate? Is it biased? The author is Alice Novic (Alice in Genderland).

Hmmm, far be it from me too disagree with such an esteemed personality, but I'm afraid I have to.

It would seem that the general consensus is "admirers" are not to be trusted for one reason or another. I can honestly say that it has not been my experience, and maybe that's where my sticking point is. Unlike some others, I can only speak from my own real life experience. Let's discuss;

I've dated maybe half a dozen guys over the last year or so as Misty. Made out with four of them and slept with two of them. The others didn't get more than a hug. Some of you may be mortified at my promiscuity while others may be amused by my slow dating life. At any rate, that's my sample. Out of all of them, one was kinda chubby, one was kinda fat and the others were in pretty good shape. They were split down the middle personality wise, half were interesting and dynamic and the other half wasn't. None of them claimed to be married. None of them admitted to being CD's in the past or present. The only thing they all had in common was an apparent attraction to me :battingeyelashes:

That's my experience in real life. Now I should admit that I occasionally fire up the webcam and chat with people on AFF so I've met a LOT of men online and I would say a good half of them seem to match Ms Novic's characterization. A lot of them are married, a lot of them are closet CD's and a lot of them are pretty damn creepy. The interesting thing is, most FAB women could say the exact same thing about men they meet in chatrooms.

Which kinda gives credence to my argument that being an admirer isn't creepy, being creepy is what's creepy.

-Misty

[ReineD]

Yeah, but look at where you live! :) Walnut Creek is a pretty nice place. I've been there. Isn't SF one of the alternative lifestyle capitals in the US?

I'm in Small Town Midwest. My SO and I go to LGBT night clubs when she is dressed in town, or in a city two hours away, or in one of two mid-sized towns 1 hour away. We've been to only a few places were mostly TGs hangout (with a long line of admirers sitting at the bar eyeing everyone up and down when you come in). Now THAT was creepy to me. And obviously to my SO as well, since she never brought me back. lol. I did have a good time there though, the show was fantastic.

At any rate, the other TG hangout we were at was pretty seedy. We received a crude invitation on a napkin. In my naivete at the time, I thought it was addressed to both of us! :p

Although my exposure to admirers is limited, I have to agree with Sarah that the creep factor at the TG bars is pretty high, compared to the men I've seen in the GLBT, mainstream, or alternative bars.

[Blaire]

I think I've done gone and broken one of my own rules here... Are we talking admirer "a" or admirer "the"? Makes a difference in my mind, same as TV vs CD makes a difference in some others. Can someone pass the salt for my crow, please?

My only real issue with the "admirers" is with the what I believe to be a much larger than normal fraction of guys that think the opening line along the likes of "What room in what hotel are you staying at?" is cool. That's the type that comes to my mind when someone says admirer or chaser, not the guy from the Clooney scenario - regardless of what he looks like.

[kellycan27]

So Reine.. Might have you considered them creepy because you and your SO are not into that scene? If you were approached couldn't the reason have been that........... it's hard to tell the players without a program? I don't go to gay bars because they don't appeal to me, nor to TG venues for much the same reason. If you are in the other person's backyard... wouldn't it stand to reason that they might think that you are game? Just curious.
Kel

[lawnmanmo]

I agree. So the hets think it's creepy that there are men who like trannies? So what? I think it's creepy that a man would dress up like a french maid while loudly proclaiming that he is "all man". We're a creepy bunch folks. What we do is NOT normal as far as mainstream society is concerned. So save your sanctimonious attitudes for Sunday.

If you're a T-girl who enjoys the company of men than I've got news for ya; The Admirers are your only option. The average straight guy does not want to encounter your penis, no matter how hot you may be. Now before I get hammered, I said AVERAGE. I am willing to recognize those rare souls that are able to transcend the body for the sake of love, if you are willing to recognize that exception as a rarity.

There are perfectly good men out there who for whatever reason, prefer T-girls over real girls. Are they deeply closeted homosexuals? Are they frustrated trannies? Are they politicians?

They are just men who are attracted to what they are attracted to. Sure, some of them can be creepy but if I were being honest, I would have to say that there are more than a few gurls on this very site who creep me out as much or more than the creepiest "chaser" I've ever met. Some of you should read your posts a couple of times before you click Submit.

So the "admirers" are just objectifying me? So what? Women have been objectified sexually since the first other woman. If a man looks at me with desire does that mean there is something wrong with him? Excuse me? Am I not allowed to be desired?

The very idea that there is something wrong with a group of men who prefer T-girls is the reason they exist in the first place.

Okay, that's a little deep, but follow me; If the world were a more accepting place and people weren't held to such rigid sexual standards then there would be no need for labels. A man could date a TG or a GG and there would be no raised eyebrows. He's just a man who likes a certain look or type and that's the end of it. Imagine living in a world where you could just date someone who you found attractive and interesting, and the sexuality would be determined by that relationship, rather than by society. There would be no need for chasers in a world like that. :daydreaming:

Back to reality, and reality sucks, because any man who has a preference for T-girls is automatically labeled a "chaser" and by definition must be creepy and predatory. That's not fair and frankly some of you girls may need to take a broom to your own doorsteps before you start with the judging.

You know, as a group we are by and large just as intolerant as the straight world and I can't decide if that's disappointing or comforting.

-Misty
Dear Misty
Thank you for the well said defense of admirer's. I am one of these so called admirer's. In many ways, I HATE that word and description. I for one do NOT stand and gwak or stare at CD women for the sake of playing with their heads. I am NOT a nut job or a creep. I have had this strang desire to be with passable CD's for as long as I can remember. And yes, I do consider myself BI. I am also NOT a latent secret CD. It seems that you CDs who are also doing what society deems as "sick or unnatural" should think a lot about what you feel is creepy. As Misty said, a lot of you girls who DO prefer being with a man, if it were not for the admirer, who in his right mind would treat you like the women you want to be. Sex is not always on the top of my list especially today when one has to be very careful. Just to enjoy the company of a CD and enjoy the common love for a lifestyle that most of the straight world consider taboo is a thrill in itself. I have been on many outtings with CD friends and they were always very enjoyable and exciting experiences. You ladies forget that when you get all dolled up and want to play the role of a women that you WILL attract that kind of man that enjoys a women like you. Its like lighting the candle only to attract the butterfly. Before you start judging, just think before you label a man as creepy, sick, or a predator. I have been on the forum for many years now and never once have I disrespected ANYONE. Im sure that there are many girls here who can vouch for me. Again, THINK before you make stupid comments that are meaningless and again, thank you Misty.
Jerry

[ReineD]

Kelly,

But I AM into that scene, or as much as I can be as a GG. :) I felt perfectly comfortable there. The show was great, the CDs we were sitting with were fun. And I wouldn't have minded the long line of guys at the bar if they looked like they had a life. You know, if they were talking, joking, laughing among themselves or with other patrons in the same way that most people people act in bars and clubs. But these guys were so silent and obtrusive with their stares. There was a definite 'meat market' flavor to them. Way more pronounced than other places I've been to.

And their physical appearance was pretty much how Sarah and Alice Novic described. Honestly, at the time I had never heard of the term "admirer", nor was I aware of their prevalence, so there was no preconceived bias. But there was most definitely something about this group of men that was, um, different.

Now to be fair, one nice thing that can be said is they don't hide their motives. It is perfectly obvious what they want and there's something to be said about their honesty. But IMO it wouldn't hurt to throw in a little couth. Also, and again to be fair, they are not after GGs so maybe they don't see the need for decorum. The objects of their desire speak their same language (same birth gender) and maybe there is no need for any artifice? (Edited to add that men's behaviors among themselves is different than when GGs are present. So the GGs who witness this are not accustomed to the rawness).

On a different note, I asked a question up above but it might have got lost ... does anyone know if the admirers we are describing would be interested in post-op TSs?

EDIT Lawmanpro, you posted while I was composing this. You will probably find my post offensive, and I do apologize. But I am describing a distinct experiences that I had and this certainly does not reflect on you.

[Misty is Kindafem]

(Edited to add that men's behaviors among themselves is different than when GGs are present. So the GGs who witness this are not accustomed to the rawness).


You know what Reine? I think you may be on to something here.

It's quite possible that my "creep" threshold is a little higher than a real woman's. Gurls like me have grown up in the company of men. We've been behind enemy lines as it were for most of our lives. We have intimate knowledge of how men act with other men and how they act with women. (By the way ladies with straight husbands; he doesn't really think those Girls Gone Wild videos are stupid or shameful).

Women have a calming and civilizing effect on most men so I guess it stands to reason that you don't have first hand knowledge of how brutish and disgusting they can be. Any man who argues with me is frankly just putting on a show for somebody. I've spent my entire life desperately trying to be manly and fit in, so like many gurls here, my perspective is both inside and outside.

Now before anyone gets fired up, I'm NOT attacking men. I love men, but they are extremely coarse compared to women in almost every aspect, especially regarding sex. I'm not just talking about dirty words or even forthrightness. I'm talking about a kind of emotional detachment. Men will learn to get right to the point if they're allowed. Want proof? Look at the average gay lifestyle. Gay men, especially closeted gay men will "cruise" for sex anywhere other gay men congregate. I've seen stuff that I couldn't believe and I'm on the outer fringes of that lifestyle at best. Seriously, they pick each other up in bathrooms, parks, wherever. There are websites that list and rate cruising spots according to how fast you can get lucky. These are facts kids and I'm not knocking it. Like I said before, to each his own, I'm just trying to illustrate what happens when women aren't around to say no.

What does a gay man bring on a first date? A condom.
What does a gay woman bring on a first date? A suitcase.

That is one of the oldest jokes in the book and I think it makes my point.

Maybe the FAB's are more sensitive to the creepiness because they're just not used to it. Hell, they won't allow it. The average TG on the other hand is well acquainted with crude, rude and socially unacceptable behavior. I mean come on, if I see a girl I know and say hi, one of my "guy" buddies will immediately ask "you hittin' that?" I'll say no and then they'll say "mind if I do?". I think women in general would be horrified at the level of objectification if they only knew. In the defense of men, most of them don't really mean to be pigs, they're just playing around but that's indeed how they've been raised. Boys will be boys.

Please ladies, don't try to argue with me about this and say your man is different. He isn't. I'm not saying men are bad, I'm just saying boys are made out of snips and snails and puppy dog tails. I didn't make that up either.

Men can be great but they can also approach sexual conquest with an almost frightening single-mindedness. What GG can disagree with that?

-Misty

[Vickie_CDTV]

I have to confess I don't understand the whole male admirer thing.

However, I can see why a TG who is straight (attracted to GGs) might be interested in a relationship with another TG, especially a TV-TS relationship. The TV may be unable to find a GG who is accepting, and find being with another TS (especially post-op with the anatomy they desire) more practical. The TV does not have to explain the dressing, or going around hiding their dressing. The TS has a man who understands her background and does not have to fear being discovered or explaining her past. Both could be completely honest with each other without fear or misunderstanding. It makes sense from this perspective at least.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Reine...to your specific question...i have dated with my thingie and I am having srs in 4 weeks....i stopped going out because i want to feel like myself out there, and i can't wait to move on with my life...

anyway, i told the last guy i dated and he was not happy and asked how many times i could see him before my surgery, and also claims he is NOT gay...i don't find him creepy at all...just closeted and quite easy on the eyes. i doubt he will be interested in the future..


Dr Novic describes me 15 years ago, and she no doubt describes some of the guys..it didnt take me a relationship to figure it out, but it did take me going out as a guy to trans events...as a tg woman , i have been chatted up by guys that later pull out the dressing pics and claim they tried it "just for fun"..i always encourage them to do what feels right and i'm happy to help them get their cd freak on..i have chosen not to pursue a date with them though once i find that out.

however, the guys i've actually dated have not been interested in any way in their own femininity..and if they are hiding anything, its their own homosexuality, and that's fine with me.

i burst out laughing this morning at what is being discussed in the last couple of posts...its really interesting ..

misty you are gonna get the guys pissed spilling all the dirty laundry..:heehee:

maybe in the end, its just semantics..
maybe the term "admirers" is a pejorative term like some of the things we are called...its certainly used that way here


and btw
Hi Jerry !! you are a sweetheart!

[ReineD]

Women have a calming and civilizing effect on most men so I guess it stands to reason that you don't have first hand knowledge of how brutish and disgusting they can be.

...

Maybe the FAB's are more sensitive to the creepiness because they're just not used to it. Hell, they won't allow it. The average TG on the other hand is well acquainted with crude, rude and socially unacceptable behavior. I mean come on, if I see a girl I know and say hi, one of my "guy" buddies will immediately ask "you hittin' that?" I'll say no and then they'll say "mind if I do?". I think women in general would be horrified at the level of objectification if they only knew. In the defense of men, most of them don't really mean to be pigs, they're just playing around but that's indeed how they've been raised. Boys will be boys.

I think we've reached a consensus. And you're not describing something that I and other GGs are not aware of. We KNOW that men behave differently when we aren't there. It's just that they seldom allow us to see it .... thankfully. :)




misty you are gonna get the guys pissed spilling all the dirty laundry..:heehee:

Naaaaaaw! We're all about being an open and honest forum in the interest of promoting mutual understanding, aren't we? :D But thanks for your response about your guy friend who would no longer be interested in you after SRS. It does fit the M.O. I hope that you will find someone wonderful post-op!! :hugs:



Sarah, I'm sorry for taking the discussion off on a tangent away from your initial topic :hiding: :D But I do agree with you that it would be a shame if the flavor of Magic Theater UK (http://www.magic-theatre.co.uk/pages/home.php) changed to become more of a TG/admirer meet-up thing. As you say, I don't think the admirers are there to partake in the fun and spirit of things but rather to see who they can bag.

[tamarav]

After reading 4 pages of posts I had to go back to the original post to recall what the question or concern was.

I agree!

[ReineD]

Yeah, I know Tam. Threads do take on a life of their own once they reach the discussion stage, especially if they are more than a few pages. :)

[lawnmanmo]

Reine...to your specific question...i have dated with my thingie and I am having srs in 4 weeks....i stopped going out because i want to feel like myself out there, and i can't wait to move on with my life...

anyway, i told the last guy i dated and he was not happy and asked how many times i could see him before my surgery, and also claims he is NOT gay...i don't find him creepy at all...just closeted and quite easy on the eyes. i doubt he will be interested in the future..


Dr Novic describes me 15 years ago, and she no doubt describes some of the guys..it didnt take me a relationship to figure it out, but it did take me going out as a guy to trans events...as a tg woman , i have been chatted up by guys that later pull out the dressing pics and claim they tried it "just for fun"..i always encourage them to do what feels right and i'm happy to help them get their cd freak on..i have chosen not to pursue a date with them though once i find that out.

however, the guys i've actually dated have not been interested in any way in their own femininity..and if they are hiding anything, its their own homosexuality, and that's fine with me.

i burst out laughing this morning at what is being discussed in the last couple of posts...its really interesting ..

misty you are gonna get the guys pissed spilling all the dirty laundry..:heehee:

maybe in the end, its just semantics..
maybe the term "admirers" is a pejorative term like some of the things we are called...its certainly used that way here


and btw
Hi Jerry !! you are a sweetheart!

Thank you Kaitlyn. You are a beautiful women and a beautiful PERSON.
Jerry

[Fab Karen]

But IMO it wouldn't hurt to throw in a little couth. Also, and again to be fair, they are not after GGs so maybe they don't see the need for decorum. The objects of their desire speak their same language (same birth gender) and maybe there is no need for any artifice? (Edited to add that men's behaviors among themselves is different than when GGs are present. So the GGs who witness this are not accustomed to the rawness).

On a different note, I asked a question up above but it might have got lost ... does anyone know if the admirers we are describing would be interested in post-op TSs?

The admirers you are describing- the creepy guys, or admirers in general? In general, some aren't, some definitely are.
Remember what I've said before? All CD's are not alike, all GG's are not alike, all admirers, all black people...name a category. The jokes exist because there's a GRAIN of truth- a percentage of the group being discussed may be like that, but many in that category won't be. For example, gay males, that stuff goes on to an extent, but it's not definitive, all are not just out for quick sex action. I lived a fair number of years in that world before accepting my dressing ( & gaining greater insight into who I am ) so I know first-hand.

There are blatantly crude admirers, and there are respectful gentlemen who talk to you just as they'd talk with a GG. Just as with guys talking to a GG, some may hope for casual sex, some may be interested in friendship, some may be interested in finding a relationship. GG's know this/learn this, so can we.

[StarrOfDelite]

simply awful...shame on you ..trust me they don't want you there either.
+++++
btw ...i was catching up on this thread...it still bugs me that folks jump on the admirers are creepy bandwagon..its so hypocritical

what the heck does it mean to say admirers are only after one thing and when you are at a movie or museum or whereever guys come up and talk to you like "any" woman?

i have been hit on by crossdressers in a cheerleader outfit, chomping a cigar and wearing a bra on the outside...i didnt say those crossdressers sure are creepy, they only want one thing...(altho it was a sight to behold)...

i never went out for many years...the first time ever i went to a drag show, and quitely drank vodka's in my flannel shirt and philadelphia eagles hoodie...i was quaking in fear, confusion and shame the whole time...have a heart...most of these guys are just like me and you.


I think you missed my point. If a CD/TV/TS doesn't want to get propositioned by people whom she sees as low-life creeps, which was iirc the complaint which started this whole thread, then why does she persist in going to events, clubs or venues which attract a lot of CD/TV/TS people, and therefore a lot of Admirers?

I don't like crowds and parades and generalized lewd behavior, which seemed to me to be the chief raison d'etre for the Key West event. Maybe your experience was different.

[Sheila]

If a CD/TV/TS doesn't want to get propositioned by people whom she sees as low-life creeps, which was iirc the complaint which started this whole thread, then why does she persist in going to events, clubs or venues which attract a lot of CD/TV/TS people, and therefore a lot of Admirers?


FYI the OP is the SO of a TG and the event in question was not a seedy night club, back street bar, but
billed as a sort of burlesque, dress to fulfill your own fantasy (as long as it doesn't involve nudity or cause offence) so the majority of people have great fun getting involved in fantasy burlesque dressing
Her and her TG regularly attend such events together, she stated it was spoiled for them by
The 'tranny chasers' don't. They come wearing anoraks and grubby sweaters and don't dance. They just (I'm aware this is a sweeping generalisation) seem to leer.

[TxKimberly]

. . . I'm with Kelly! If you're CD/TG, and you're attracted to others like u, why would u think men who have the SAME attraction r ODD!? . . .

Whoa there Doc! I can't speak for anyone else here that said admirers were creepy, but I don't think they are odd because they like TG's. I think they are odd based on the fact that the majority of them I've encountered have ACTED creepy.

I think it was a valid point that some of you brought up concerning the way your sexual orientation will obviously affect or color your perception of someone who is sexually interested in you, but I'm fairly sure that my being hetro has nothing to do with my opinion. I honestly don't mind a guy hitting on me if he is polite - that doesn't bug me. If anything, it's kind of affirming. Having some creep staring at me for hours on the other hand is a whole different ball of wax.