Dressing/shopping around (strangers') children?

[Madeleine StClair]

I've been wondering about something ...

Over the past couple of weeks I have mostly overcome my fear of being seen buying women's clothes (as a guy, wearing guy clothes--haven't been out enfemme yet) ... yet: if I see families with kids coming, I try to disappear. I'm not completely sure why that is. Philosophically, I don't have a problem with kids knowing about crossdressing. But in my mind I can hear a little girl asking "Mommy, why is that man in the women's section?" Maybe it's that kids are much more likely to laugh and point at things that adults would politely overlook, or maybe I just don't want to be the one to put a parent in the position of answering that awkward question (I have a 10-year old son myself).

Or another case: what about dressing at public events where there are likely to be children present? For example, we have an annual festival in Denver called the People's Fair. It originated in the Capitol Hill neighborhood, which is traditionally an artsy/hippie/gay area, but in recent years the Fair has grown, moved downtown, and become much more mainstream. So, the event has alternative roots, and is still attended by a variety of alternative people, including CDers, but there are also a lot of "normal" families these days. I don't think I'm going to go to it dressed, but the thought has crossed my mind.

Anyway, this is not really a "what should I do" question, and I'm not at all anxious about it, but I'm curious what others think. Do you have a philosophical stance on kids seeing you dressed or shopping--and do your feelings agree with that philosophy?

[serinalynn]

I have shopped both in mens clothes and dressed as a woman all depends on when I am in the shopping mood either after work or on saturday. This past saturday I was out enfemme and I went to a store to buy a ladies shirt when the SA asked if I had any other shirts of that style. I removed my ladies demin jacket and showed her the one i had one. She gave me an approving smile and said "it looked good on me." I stated I wear what I am comfortable in.

[AriannaVillota]

I worry more about what the adults will say rather than the kids.

The first time I was out dressed, I was a nervous wreck. I wasn't looking too good either, I still hadn't mastered the makeup. Sitting at starbucks, a little boy picked two dandelions out of the ground and gave one to me and one to my friend, smiled, and went back to his parents, who were busy looking horrified.

Kids aren't biased, judgemental or hateful. Just curious and accepting. =)

[Blaire]

It's not the kids you have to worry about, but the parents.

Present an adult with something odd, and they're likely to ignore it and move on. Put their kids in between them and that same something odd and their unpredictability will shoot through the roof - often drastically overcompensating in favour of protection.

Kids in the area doesn't change anything about being there yourself or not. There's no need to run away. However, I'd be inclined to cater to a heavy dose of paranoia and make sure you're never in a position where both you and junior ended up together out of sight of the parent.

[eluuzion]

Hiya Madeleine !

Always nice to see another MileHile CDer...

Responding to your kid questions...
Generally speaking, I consider it a parents' responsibility to monitor what they expose their children to. If there happens to be a guy in the women's department, it is not an anomaly, as guys buy gifts for wives, girlfriends, etc. It is not like taking them downtown at night to "hooker row", lol.

Do I censor my visits to any location to "protect" any possible kids that may be present from being "exposed" to something "weird"? No, that is also an illogical approach for
me to consider.

I am familiar with the "fairs" you mentioned, and I have raised a daughter from age 2 to 17 without female help. I took her and her friends to all kinds of events with "different" types of people attending. It is part of life. You just explain what you can to the questions that arise, if any do. I would not go dressed myself, or make fun of or single out a CD or anyone else. Kids are resilient and open. They usually only mimic what the parent's reaction or approach is. Respect everyone, and they will follow suit.

Would I intentionally have a CD for a babysitter, or encourage them to interact with a CD, or a clown or anyone else...no. If I saw a man coming out of the women's dressing room when my child was with me, would I leave that dept? Absolutely. But I would also leave if I saw a clown come out, too. lol

Have I ever considered exposing my child to my CDing? No. Do I ever plan on doing that? No. Is there any reason for me to share that with her? No. Would I ever be cross-dressed in a place where it is likely that alot of kids might be present. No.

It seems you might be subconsciously wrestling with your fears/concerns about your own child.

just a thought.

[Loni]

only problem I see with "kids" is a restroom. all it would take to mess up your year is some kid saying something to the parents about seeing somthing.
instant pervert. even in male mode I get out if kids in there.
but for shopping no problem....so far for me.

.

[victoriamwilliams1]

As it was said: "It's the parents and not the kids"!

I try as well at one time to avoid locations with allot of parents with children around and it was not the children I was concerned about it was the parents. Now I still use wisdom in my outings and I know I have now gotten the basics of my look down and I am accepted better now than I was 6 years ago.

[Freddy12]

I share your concerns, but am definately more worried about the stern looking male senior citizens. I think the replies here make sense. Maybe I can control my feers, but that's easier said than done.

[BRANDYJ]

Being very realistic about myself, I simply would never shop dressed. I know I am not passable and never will be. OK, I can pull it off in a dark night club, but that's about it. So no kids present there. Plus, I only go to clubs that cater to alternate lifestyles. Call me chicken, call me smart or whatever. I simply fear humiliation, ridicule, or offending anyone that is not comfortable around cross dressers. In fact, it takes a lot of courage for me to shop in drab mode in the woman's department. It never gets easier for me. The only time I feel more relaxed about it is during the Christmas shopping season when you might find other men shopping for gifts for his wife. I always have that feeling that someone is watching me and am not comfortable with that.
Let's face it, most people think that men dressed as women do it for sexual reasons. Of course for many of us. if not most, it goes far beyond a sexual turn on, as we all know. So to the uninformed, uneducated on our lifestyle, they perceive us all to be sexual perverts. Of course this is not true except for a small minority I think. So yes, I fear what others might think of me. I can't go with the popular thought about not caring what others think. Funny, in some ways I envy those that feel that way. It's not in me to change that feeling. But we all have our limits and personal reasons to do or feel as we do. We are not all cut from the same cloth, and I'm glad, or it would be a boring existence.
I respect that and those that can and do carry it off to dress and shop in public. Like I said, I even envy it in some ways.

[Sara Jessica]

...So to the uninformed, uneducated on our lifestyle, they perceive us all to be sexual perverts.

And if this is true, how else do we overcome such perceptions other than being out and about???

I'm certainly not advocating that we add Chuck E. Cheese or Toys 'r' Us to our list of destinations but seriously, I don't see any reason to avoid children as if they're kryptonite. If we are our simply going about our lives as any other woman would do, we are doing nothing wrong, nor are we doing anything that would perpetuate negative perceptions of the uninformed.

[Karren H]

That's a scarry subject. Or could be. I totally stay away from places where young kids congregate. Schools and busy parks with playgrounds. Just to avoid "Pervert arrested stalking elwmentary school children".

You going to have encounters with. Kids when out enfemme. I like to ignore them.. But they know!! I had this one boy walk up to me when I was pumping gas enfemme and just stood there staring. I smiled and was ready for hime to run back to his dad yelling "Daddy. That man is wearing a dress...". Then there was the time in the ladies room when this mother brought in her flock of young girls.. Lucky I was in a stall.. But was trapped till they left. Lol.

Kids are something to steer away from.

[BRANDYJ]

And if this is true, how else do we overcome such perceptions other than being out and about???

I'm certainly not advocating that we add Chuck E. Cheese or Toys 'r' Us to our list of destinations but seriously, I don't see any reason to avoid children as if they're kryptonite. If we are our simply going about our lives as any other woman would do, we are doing nothing wrong, nor are we doing anything that would perpetuate negative perceptions of the uninformed.

I will not disagree with what you said, but some of us are not the right ones to be the crusaders for various reasons. Example would be a 6'6" 300 lb guy with a five O'clock shadow and hairy legs and chest hair sticking out of his low cut dress.

I do congratulate and appreciate those that can pull it off and at least blend in. Those that want to be a crusader for all of us is a good thing. Ju7st not right for me and those that don't pass or blend the easily.

[Empress Lainie]

I taught kids various ages for several months (I had the same kids for years before except for a few) after I transitioned until I got fired for introducing myself as a transgendered woman to a new parent and wearing a skirt, and the same wig I had worn for 7 years before.

I filed an EEOC suit against the City of Las Vegas and had a meeting in December with the EEOC investigator who also showed me all the lies the city attorney made up about firing me. BUT we have the documentary proof.

So if it gets to court before I die I might get something out of it, but not likely to match the $36000 that I went into debt for until I finally got a minimum wage job 2 and half years later.

None of the kids I taught or their parents had any problem with my change, it was the NEW parents that didn't even know me.

I never give a thought to anyone kids or adults who see me. I am accepted as just a woman.
(some of you don't know I am transexual and have been living as a woman since 2007.)

[joank]

Good Elmer Fudd-- Karren--elwmentary.


That's a scarry subject. Or could be. I totally stay away from places where young kids congregate. Schools and busy parks with playgrounds. Just to avoid "Pervert arrested stalking elwmentary school children".

You going to have encounters with. Kids when out enfemme. I like to ignore them.. But they know!! I had this one boy walk up to me when I was pumping gas enfemme and just stood there staring. I smiled and was ready for hime to run back to his dad yelling "Daddy. That man is wearing a dress...". Then there was the time in the ladies room when this mother brought in her flock of young girls.. Lucky I was in a stall.. But was trapped till they left. Lol.

Kids are something to steer away from.

[Chickhe]

I'm a parent too and I've got to be honest, I tend to be cautious when their are different people around...but its it not so much how the people look, but how they are acting...loitering or looking nervous or talking to invisble people :-). Because a huge majority of the poeple don't understand crossdressing, I would stay away from schools or parks where young kids are...in fact even in male I stay away unless I have a reason such as my own kid is going there. In general, I think you can mingle with any crowd as long as you are confident and have a purpose and look harmless.

[Regina]

Out in public no, if i happen to make eye contact I just smile and move on. Kids don't bother me teenagers and young college students do...but so far no problems.

I do take precautions with public restrooms, I fear getting "discovered" by a mother with her little child in the womens room.



Regina

[Christinedreamer]

As you can see from my avatar I am not a small framed person. I am 6 ft and about 280. I do not go out en femme except at our yearly holiday-Halloween.

That being said, I have found many times over the years that children I have never seen before seem to be attracted to me as someone they can talk to. I have a couple friends (men) who are also larger and they have had the same experience. I know larger women (GGs) who have the same effect.

I have had many people start a conversation with me as though we are old friends when just standing next to each other in line.

Years ago in church we had a brother/sister pair of kids that were basically wards of the state but in foster care with a couple of women who lived together. The very first time the kids showed up in church they came right to my GF and myself as though we were relatives. The little girl (7) came to me and the boy(5) went to my GF. Everyone saw this and no one could explain it.
These kids did NOT want to leave us.

I have heard that many kids are naturally attracted for safety and protection to larger sized adults. My exoperience seems to bear that out.

That being said, how are we supposed to deal with a situation when a child initiates the contact? Many wil automatically think the adult is doing something wrong merely because he is a male. What a horribly sad commentary on society.

[joandher]

only problem I see with "kids" is a restroom. all it would take to mess up your year is some kid saying something to the parents about seeing somthing.
instant pervert. even in male mode I get out if kids in there.
but for shopping no problem....so far for me.

.

I was waiting in line for the Ladies once ,when i heard kids inside ,i diverted to the disabled toilet,on exit a lady attendant said thats for disabled people ,so i whispered to her that i just wanted to empty my bag, she said oh thats ok,
but i just couldnt use the main one with kids in it, it only takes one to notice

:hugs: J-JAY

[sissystephanie]

In over 60 years of CD'ing I have never had a kid get me in trouble. Probably just jinxed myself!! LOL! When I did present as a woman, I had women, and sometimes their kids, talk to me. But that was never a problem. Now that I no longer have my wife to fix my wig and do my makeup, I just go out looking like a man, but wearing feminine clothing. Sure I get some "looks," but usually the only comments I get are compliments on my outfit!! BTW, since I appear as a man, even though wearing a skirt and etc., I do use the men's bathroom!

[AKAMichelle]

I understand your thoughts about kids. I am careful around them as well and the reason is that I don't to cause a problem for those kids. As for the festival, I have never heard of it. My thought would be go dressed. Sounds like fun.

[Nicole Erin]

Just avoid the little brats best you can and don't make eye contact.
Dress to blend in too. I mean even if you get read, if you are dressed presentably than what is the worst that could happen?

Just don't be all dressed like Lady Gaga and it will be fine.

[Vickie_CDTV]

I second the notion about avoiding eye contact with children.

I wouldn't worry about buying clothes en drab. But I would be more concerned about the changing room issue, if you use them when buying clothes (en drab or en femme.)

I wouldn't even think of using a female restroom if there are children in there. If you are going to the fair en femme, plan ahead if you think you are going. I would assume if it is outdoors there are single user port-a-potties there.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

As a transitioner, I am only just now getting confident with children around...i know there is nothing wrong with me or others that cross gender boundries, but I don't want to upset a child either..

..and they are MUCH more likely to blurt out...mommy look its a man!!! and that's no fun

[Farrah]

I understand your phobia with dressing around children. I have the same phobia. I have a few reasons why I don't like to dress in front of children, especially boys. I don't want give little boys the idea to become a crossdresser. Its a really hard road to travel and i don't want to be the one to get him started on his journey. 2. Like you said children will stare and ask those question that will make me uncomfortable as well as their parents.

[Angie G]

You never buy you lady a gift. A dress an outfit perfume.How do you do this.:hugs:
Angie

[Samantha B L]

I would actually lable myself a nice person. A freind of mine told me 25 years ago I was "too nice". I would go as far as to say I was a non-violent peacenik and that's become passe in the last couple of decades. I've been described as jovial and when I was an overweight teenager I played Santa Claus at a church Sunday School 3 years in a row. But I can be irascible and sardonic at times and I don't hesitate to speak up for myself. Little kids nowadays have got everyone from Frosty The Snowman to The Great Pumpkin on Charlie Brown all of them beckoning them with Hershey Bars and video games and all sorts of crap to get into the station wagon and go see my house. It won't kill 'em if somebody takes a wee bit sharp and harsh line with them. I mean,I like kids. I'm super indulgent with kids but I figure that my blood relation nephew and my blood relation cousins are all that I can handle and I don't need Dennis The Menace and The whole Dairy Queen Gang dropping custard all over my carpeting.



Little kids aged like 3 to 8 can sometimes do everything from maybe glomm their hands in your pockets to sometimes just once in awhile touching your crotch or slapping you on the back,legs and arms. They may even stick chewed gum on blouse and blazer racks I'm not one for making their trip to JC Penney and A&W into the Death March of Bataan by having their Moms and Dads pulverize them with belts and stuff like that. I mean, I was never treated that way and I don't even wish it on Dennis and The Scrumpdidlyishus gang but getting to the point I have had ocaision to give a Mom or two my best disgusted and sick to my stomach look and accompany that with such endearing trifles as "Jeezus Christ Lady,what about this?!" or "Well For Cryin' Out Loud,Mam!" or "Well C'mon!"and "Mam,if you don't mind!"or "If You Please!".




I say just be honest if you're out shopping or something and little kids get too close. The Moms will actually be releived to find out that you're NOT interested in their kids. As if you were in the first place.

[5150 Girl]

if I see families with kids coming, I try to disappear. I'm not completely sure why that is. Philosophically, I don't have a problem with kids knowing about crossdressing. But in my mind I can hear a little girl asking "Mommy, why is that man in the women's section?"


Mommy will likey say "He's buying a nice gift for his wife"



Or another case: what about dressing at public events where there are likely to be children present? For example, we have an annual festival in Denver called the People's Fair. It originated in the Capitol Hill neighborhood, which is traditionally an artsy/hippie/gay area, but in recent years the Fair has grown, moved downtown, and become much more mainstream.

But still, knowing how the fair got started, parents should expect such things.


Either way, it matters not where you are, or waht you're doing, as long as you're dressed properly (as in not showing to much skin) what others think is their problem.Life's to short to worry about such things. live for yourself. Besides, I feel the younger one is expposed to such things the more normal it will seem to them

[Fab Karen]

I'm doing nothing wrong, so I just go about my shopping/whatever. I do agree with Karren that being alone around JUST children is something to try to avoid, as these days any stranger is seen as automatically suspect.
If you feel like going to that fair dressed, then do it. Hiding to "not offend" others helps bigots to think their attitude is ok.

[sherri52]

I don't bother hiding anymore, but your right. Kids don't think too much about a man shopping in teh womens section but would be the first ones to laugh if your read.

[Madeleine StClair]

Wow! What a lot of great answers ... much food for thought here. Thank you all.


That being said, how are we supposed to deal with a situation when a child initiates the contact? Many wil automatically think the adult is doing something wrong merely because he is a male. What a horribly sad commentary on society.

Hmm, yeah, I hadn't really thought in those terms, but I suppose that is a risk. And just out of curiosity, I have gotten the impression lately that people in the UK are even more paranoid about men-as-potential-perverts than we are in the USA ... any UK members care to confirm or deny?

[Madeleine StClair]

Always nice to see another MileHile CDer...

Likewise.


Would I intentionally have a CD for a babysitter, or encourage them to interact with a CD, or a clown or anyone else...no. If I saw a man coming out of the women's dressing room when my child was with me, would I leave that dept? Absolutely. But I would also leave if I saw a clown come out, too. lol

Umm ... did you have a bad experience with clowns as a child? :heehee:


Have I ever considered exposing my child to my CDing? No. Do I ever plan on doing that? No. Is there any reason for me to share that with her? No.

Hmm. I'm not saying you're wrong about that ... I suppose it depends a lot on what crossdressing means to you. For me, though it's very early days, I strongly feel that expressing the feminine is an important part of who I am. Not the whole, by any means, and I'm not yet sure how much that expression really depends on dressing, but I do feel my son should know who I am. Not today, not all at once, but eventually.


It seems you might be subconsciously wrestling with your fears/concerns about your own child.

Could be.

[Rianna Humble]

I don't censor myself from going to places where children might be with their parents, but neither do I go up to them to initiate contact. My old self also behaved in that way.

I haven't had any negative reaction from children when I'm dressed, but have occasionally had parents begin a conversation with me because of something that the child has said.

In one case the child was interested in my jewellery, so I offered it to the mother so that the little girl could have a closer look. Mother and daughter both appreciated that.

If a child is with a parent and asks me a question, I will always give him/her my attention whilst using body language to try to convey to the parent that I am not a threat. I will normally speak to the parent as well but not in a manner that would exclude the offspring.

I agree with other posters that the biggest danger comes from the parents' reaction, but I try always to neutralise that by body language words and actions.

[vetobob9]

whether you go to a fair should depend on what the purpose of the fair is

[noeleena]

Hi...
This is in some ways is a bit of an eye opener .

I have been around children all my life & have children come up to me because they have senced that i am & have allways been safe . one friend said & i had not thouight of it im like a maginet to them .
All so i have taught children & there mums & dads were happy for them to come.
& even now i have Dejarn our grand kid shes 7 . & its no different . at the parks were there are a lot of kids thier mums & dads again just talk & we have a good day ,
The ladys room no problems & with kids , I know its some what different for me as im well known so people know my back ground ,
So that has helped me & having Dejarn with me in the begining when i came out.
I do know what your talking about tho & yes not a easy ? to answer &
with males being in more womens areas it can cause problems , & yes those kids dont miss a trick .
Its just the case of be carefull & dont put your self in a sitution that could be tough getting out of .

...noeleena...

[Gerrijerry]

The only thing that happen to me with kids was. When I was eating at a table at a place,when the kid at the next table looked toward me and said mommy why does that person dress like that. I started to blush as the mom looked toward me. Then I realized they were both looking past me at the next table. Where a woman in her upper 40's was wearing clothes that were designed for a teen. So yes kids notice things but you don't have to be noticed if you just blend in and act natural.

[Hope]

Cross dressing is not a crime. Stop acting like you are doing something wrong. We tell others how to treat us by the way we behave - if we behave like we are doing something wrong, we cannot be surprised when people treat us like we are doing something wrong. Cross dressing is not a crime.

At the same time, I am hyper-vigilant about kids, no matter what I am wearing. Not because I am going to do something improper, but because an accusation is all that is needed to ruin a life, and until those who make false accusations are stripped of their rights, dignity, thrown in jail, fined and placed on a watch list for the rest of their lives - so shall it be.

So here is my rule: I will never, ever, ever, ever ever for any reason, or for any length of time be the only adult in a room with a child, or a group of children. NEVER EVER.

[jenniferj]

On the very first of our Chicks'CultureWeekends to NYC DSW and I stayed at a boutique hotel uptown near Columbia. It had been an exciting day already; driving down as JJ, going to my first ladies' room (with DSW - chicks always go in pairs anyway), walking around the Cloisters and finally parking the car while DSW checked us in. I was feeling pretty good (although there is NO way I was passing if anyone happened to notice) as I walked into the hotel lobby...

Which was filled with about 30 Girl Scouts on a trip from somewhere. The hotel had 1 little (held 3 persons) elevator and they were all waiting to go to their rooms. As were we - our room was on the 9th floor. And so we sat there, surrounded by 12 year old girls whose number decreased by 4 every few minutes.

Did they notice? I don't see how they could not have. Did they giggle or point or comment? Nope. They probably thought I was just one of those interesting things you see in New York.

This really freed me - I just stopped worrying about being seen or noticed and had the first of several wonderful weekends.:battingeyelashes:

-jj

[Rianna Humble]

Cross dressing is not a crime. Stop acting like you are doing something wrong. We tell others how to treat us by the way we behave - if we behave like we are doing something wrong, we cannot be surprised when people treat us like we are doing something wrong. Cross dressing is not a crime.

:iagree: The sooner we all learn that we are not doing wrong when we go out, the sooner we will be able to go out freely. If I go to a store and look guilty, security will want to check me out. If I go to the same store and act normally,they won't give me any more attention than another shopper.


At the same time, I am hyper-vigilant about kids, no matter what I am wearing. Not because I am going to do something improper, but because an accusation is all that is needed to ruin a life, and until those who make false accusations are stripped of their rights, dignity, thrown in jail, fined and placed on a watch list for the rest of their lives - so shall it be.

So here is my rule: I will never, ever, ever, ever ever for any reason, or for any length of time be the only adult in a room with a child, or a group of children. NEVER EVER.

I completely understand why you say that. Although I try to avoid being the only adult, I can make exceptions if necessary because my old self has been certified by the police as being safe to work with children and vulnerable adults.

[Angiemead12]

Im still scared to shop for some reason, and I get alot of help from my SO now since she gets angry if the stuff i buy isnt used!