What to do?

[Crystal Rose]

OK so I have to get this off my chest or back, not sure which it's on so I'll cover both. Background on me, I'm 38, married and happily so. My wife is very supportive for the most part. I have three girls all 6 and younger. I have underdressed since oh about 10 to 11 years old. I specifically enjoy wearing pantyhose but have bought shoes, dress, and a couple skirts. I have been caught wearing pantyhose by nearly every brother or sister I have. I was born and raised in NY but live in Utah now. I don't know why I tell you all this, but maybe it will help? So when my wife and I were dating someoone told me I needed to let her know. I told her and she was unphased. So here is my current situation, I serve full time in the military and live in a relatively small town in Utah County, about an hour south of SLC. I wear pantyhose and shorts out of my house sometimes, like this past weekend there was a Home remodel show so I went in shorts and pantyhose, nude but pantyhose none the less. I want to do more and be more comfortable with what I wear and progress to wearing my dress or skirt and shoes and get a wig. But here are some of my issues. Again serving in the military and knowing many members of my unit live close to my house. I know they can't kick me out for wearing during off time, but I also don't want to have issues if someone sees or recognizes me dressed up. but I love wearing and want to progress and wear more articles. I do underdress now, keeps me on my toes sometimes. :D I do wear pantyhose out in different colors, tan, coffee black. When I'm out in these colors I am nervous because I feel people are judging me based on what I am wearing. My wife, bless her heart, doesn't want me to wear dresses and such out in public because she feels we will be judged for it. I don't want that for her or the kids. So where is the happy medium? How can I do what I would like while preventing the issues listed above? Any responses from Utah sisters would be great! Advice welcomed from all but Utah girls know more of the social dynamics here. :o

[Elle1946]

I am not from Utah, But take care of the ones that you love!

[Bea A]

Yes you CAN be discharged for crossdressing off duty- off base. As long as you are on active duty, you are subject to the UCMJ. Article 134 can get your court-martialed and OUT. The military will associate Crossdressing with Homosexual Behavior, whether they should or not. If you hold a clearance, it can be pulled. Be VERY careful!

[Crystal Rose]

Yes you CAN be discharged for crossdressing off duty- off base. As long as you are on active duty, you are subject to the UCMJ. Article 134 can get your court-martialed and OUT. The military will associate Crossdressing with Homosexual Behavior, whether they should or not. If you hold a clearance, it can be pulled. Be VERY careful!

So question for you would wearing pantyhose be considered aginst this article and something they would discharge for?

[Lynn Marie]

Beware of the Pink Fog. It can cause you to temporarily suspend all sound judgement.

Just about everybody judges everybody else and quite often very harshly. It takes a certain amount of enlightenment to stop judging and start accepting. Don't expect acceptance from your fellow man, just appreciate it when you get it. It's pretty rare.

[kimdl93]

I agree with Elle that your family has to come first. I'd suggest that you continue to enjoy underdressing and probably avoid wearing stockings and shorts in the community where you live & work. Why not plan some getaways so that you can enjoy yourself without the risk?

[Kathi Lake]

That's a toughie. Under the UCMJ and the Don't Ask, Don't Tell guidelines, it's about as muddy as a swamp.

Basically, unless you admit to homosexual behavior, they cannot kick you out. What they can do is unofficially make your life a living hell. Up for promotion boards? Nope. Not happening. Doesn't matter if you're the sharpest troop they have, or if you've gone to the sandbox the most or have a chest-full of medals, you have a huge stigma hanging over you. It won't be official, but it will still be there.

I have lived in Utah and have been in the military here for about 30 years. My advice to you? Two words: Salt lake.

I live near Ogden. I shop in Salt Lake. You live in Provo/Orem. Shop in Salt Lake. Not only is it a friendlier, more cosmopolitan environment, the chances of bumping into someone you know is reduced. Plus, if you've read any of my shopping threads, you'll see that they are very accepting!

:)

Kathi

[Ms. Emily]

Just do the opposite of what I did when I first started and didn't want to get caught. I went shopping in Provo so you could go to the Salt Lake valley instead. Unless you know alot of people in Salt Lake in which case maybe Ogden or something. It's not the best solution but it might lessen your chances of getting caught.

Edit: gah Kathi just suggested the same thing but it could work well.

[Bea A]

Article 134 is the "General Article". Its the "we can't think of anything else, but we still want to court martial you" article. Kathy is very much right. Even if you're not discharged, you will definitely be shown the advantages of NOT beng in the military anymore. You will most likely go under the scope. Late for formation, failed inpsections, or "conduct unbecoming". That can mean just about anything.

[PretzelGirl]

I don't think it is a Utah thing. I feel the dynamics here get overblown. But I agree with Kathi and Emily. And if you feel coworkers will travel north, then go further away and to places that aren't vacation spots (I assume you could run into coworkers at Vegas or Wendover). Sometimes that 1-2 nights paying for a hotel room is worth getting it out of your system.

As an example, when I first wanted to go out dressed and was nervous about location, my wife suggested we get a hotel up in Idaho. I ended up 2 miles from my house. Go figure.

[Kathi Lake]

I ended up 2 miles from my house. Go figure.. . . and you were just fine!

:)

Kathi

[Shari]

Crystal, you write as if Utah wasn't even part of the United States.

Wherever you're stationed, take heed from Lisa. The UCMJ can be used very easily against you and make your military life a living hell and most probably a dead end career if you're found out. The "don't ask, don't tell" policy is the best for you.

What you want and what is accepted or tolerated are two very different animals in the military.
Keep your dressing limited to home behind closed doors.

[DonniDarkness]

All the girls are right here, i live in a small rural town of farmers and cowboys....their wives are gossip hounds...i know cuz thats where i get all the hometown dirt.....

So what i do to keep from bumping into ppl shopping, is shop at least 50mi from my house. I have yet to even see anyone i know while shopping.

Also places like bealls and ross are EMPTY at 9-10 am. So i generally go shopping in the AM before the crowds get there

[Karren H]

I am not from Utah, But take care of the ones that you love!

Bingo!! To me that means protecting your source of income and any negative social impact on your wife and children.. Family first!!

[Tina B.]

It's been along time since I was in the military, but I doubt they have changed all that much. I would not have wanted my CO to find me crossdressed. I think I would keep it home. or start traveling!
Tina B.

[AKAMichelle]

I think you need to find a group with a safe place to go dressed. That way you protect your career in the military and get more comfortable as you.

Try and contact Kathi Lake as she lives somewhere out there in Utah and she served in the military and is now in the reserves. She might have some advice for you which might help.

[daphne g]

its a mad world out there,isnt it?
what s crossdressing got to do with homosexuality
f....all ?or am i wrong
and if someone is homo ,and ?whats so bad about that?
??????
uuh arnt we living in 2010 and not 1910
i thought the world was a bit more open minded and wiser
just had to let that out

[sherri52]

Family should always come first. Have you tried looking for a support group in the area. You may find them a few towns away and you can usually dress there as well. This will give you what you want and keep it away from the family as well

[Melissa Anne]

Hi Crystal,
I live in Utah too (SLC area) and I will echo what many others have said. Family should come first, always. I have been out and about by myself and with my wife all over the Wasatch front area and I've never had a problem. I try to stay away from the area I live when I go out but that is not much of a problem. I'm usually not too worried about someone I know seeing and recognizing me but if my wife is with me they might recognize her and put two and two together. I think if you go a little ways from the area you live and if you are in full dress (wig, makeup, etc...) you shouldn't need to worry about being seen by anyone you know. Good luck and have fun!

[Crystal Rose]

Crystal, you write as if Utah wasn't even part of the United States.

Wherever you're stationed, take heed from Lisa. The UCMJ can be used very easily against you and make your military life a living hell and most probably a dead end career if you're found out. The "don't ask, don't tell" policy is the best for you.

What you want and what is accepted or tolerated are two very different animals in the military.
Keep your dressing limited to home behind closed doors.

Sometimes I do feel Utah is a bit different than the rest of the country.....nothing mean here just different.

[shayleetv]

I was released from the military early because of my crossdressing. At the time it was okay thing by me, after all they gave me an honorable release. But then I got a job working for Bountiful City and they did a back ground check on me. It was a really thorough check too. They had my military record where it said reasons for my release and a photo of me dressed as a girl. Needless to say I had to look for another job. Be careful, if you don't want the problems the military can haunt you with, you better make sure that where you go and what you do is very discrete. If you are making the military your career think twice about everything you do before you do it.

[Jaydee]

I too spent a long time in the military, and agree with everything that has already been said. Article 134 can easily be miss used by a commander. Please be very careful for your families sake.

Jaydee

[charlie]

Hello Chrystal!
Family first has been the operative word here that everyone agrees on. Keep in mind that when you don full clothes, wig, makeup and and bra you may not look passable, but you will not look like your regular self. When I dress nobody knows who I am even if I was with them the night before. As such, a weekend in Salt Late City may just be the thing for a weekend fling, crossdressing experience and fun with your wife.

[SusanLeigh3454]

Kathi is right. Once you are read your Article 31 rights over this issue, your military career is over. You might get a crackerjack JAG and win but your file will be permanently marked. Kathi did find a workaround, and she gave you sound advice.

[Beth Wilde]

I really feel for you over there. At least the UK military has something right now, even if it was forced by the european courts. We can be gay with no comeback.... For some reason people over here tend to assume that gay people (like me) crossdress..... It is untrue for the majority but helps me loads! I wish you guys had the same rules..... Don't ask, don't tell is c**p

[eluuzion]

Whenever kids are involved I follow two rules...

1) Always make decisions that result in the best possible outcome for the kids.

2) See rule #1

[Michaela42]

Thanks to the vagueness of DADT I am sure that something as minor as wearing pantyhose could be used for grounds to end your career. I have seen careers ended for much less. We all understand the desires and dreams, but like everyone mentioned here, think of your family.

[Dana]

Just this plain and simple "Article 134" under the Uniform Military of Justice!

"Conduct unbecoming"of an Airman, Solider, Sailor or Marine!

Could be as simple as spitting on the sidewalk. Walking around with your hands in your pockets, or having a cigarette hanging and dangling out of your mouth! Spitting chewing tobacco out of your mouth! Whistling while in uniform?


Under the UCMJ you can be tried and court martial for fornication ~ having sex with not someone not your lawfully wedded wife. Adultry!