Liars and hypocrites

[Melissa A.]

These People are very, very dangerous.

http://www.narth.com/docs/transexpl.html

...and some of them are just phonies and hypocrites:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/05/08/1619272/rentboy-escort-i-gave-sexual-massages.html

Sorry, I'm getting on my pulpit again. And I'm sure many of you know about NARTH, George Rekers, and others. I just think that it's important for all to do whatever they can do to make sure that those who would listen to their message hear ours, as well. You never know how close you are to having to live in a society that, through misinformation and apathy, reverts back to hostility and danger for gender variant people. You don't have to be a full-time activist to make a difference. When you see injustice, hysterical homophobic or transphobic crap masquerading as academic info, backlash, or other intolerence, write someone in power, your elected representatives, or, even a newspaper, and make your feelings known. It really does make a difference. Now back to your regularly-scheduled forum.

Hugs,

Melissa:)

[Myojine]

did i ever mention, i had violent tendancies agaisnt liars?

-----------------------------------------------

Funny thing, yesterday at work we had a guy who is also a DJ talk about the club he went to DJ for the other night.
it was a "tranny" club.
i ended up explaining that CDers and TGs, werent gay.(Mainly outta of being pissed off, and sick of stupid peoples ignorance)

I love to "Forcefully" teach people >:3

[MissKara]

did i ever mention, i had violent tendancies agaisnt liars?

-----------------------------------------------

Funny thing, yesterday at work we had a guy who is also a DJ talk about the club he went to DJ for the other night.
it was a "tranny" club.
i ended up explaining that CDers and TGs, werent gay.(Mainly outta of being pissed off, and sick of stupid peoples ignorance)

I love to "Forcefully" teach people >:3

I know that feeling. Whenever I run into someone I know is a liar, so I have to hold myself back so I don't throttle them :P

Lots of Love,
Miss Kara

[Jennifer in CO]

unfortunately, when some are seeking 'professional' help and guidance as they begin their journey, they find narrow minds such as this instead of true help

Jenn

[Kaitlyn Michele]

wow...

apparently anyone who is looking to improve their appearance through cosmetic surgery is quite disturbed:straightface:

i wonder if that idiot has met any of the ten's of thousands of transsexual women that don't have any cosmetic surgery...liar or hypocrite? probably both.

[Miranda09]

Thanks for posting Melissa. I had never heard of NARTH or Rekers before. As with anything from a so-called "expert", one has to have the incentive to look deeper into these studies and see if they are unbiased, and a true scienitifc study, or are they predisposed to prove their hypothesis, and make the data fit their perspective. This is bad science, and there are alot of reputable psychologists who would argue against the NARTH viewpoint. If one has the viewpoint that homosexuality or transgenderism is a maladay that needs to be cured, then that's how they're going to conduct their research in an effort to support that viewpoint. As you said Melissa, activisim is important to get the other side of the coin into the public eye.

[Veronica_Jean]

Thanks Melissa,

I had seen some of these people on Dr. Phil and they truly make my blood boil. Reading the lengthy discussion that completely ignores the thousands of happily transitioned trans people in the world for a narrowly formed view that we all suffer from some form of psychosis is quite insulting and ridiculous.

In any case, it is good to know what they are spewing about since it seems their crap can fall on anyone.

Veronica

[Stephanie Anne]

I understand the anger toward a body like this but to be perfectly honest, I am having a difficult time discerning the hypocrisy in this article.

From an academic standpoint, it makes some very valid points. The case study was noted for body image issues and was used to describe the value of psychological counseling in a transsexual case.

What I mean to say, is there is verbiage here that can be removed from context and made to look like it paints transgender care in a negative light but as a whole the article is sound.


Can you site more evidence of what you are accusing them of so I can form a valid opinion?

Yes, I believe they are confusing reality with archaic judeo-christian beliefs and forming potentially damaging opinions on the nature of homosexuality but I want to know specifics.

[christina marie]

yes these people are dangerous at best the only thing that keeps me calm about these types is that someday they WILL have to explain themselves. you will find more on Rekers at bilerco dot com if you want to follow the story. he is set on self-destruct.

[Wen4cd]

I read a couple of Breiner's articles, and they appear to be Freudian-based.

I would agree that gender variances in people are mostly psychologically based, but the worm in Freudian-based thought is that every variance is seen and 'painted with the brush of psychopathology,' and any variance is almost always equated to illness. Any observations or insights are tainted with the 'curse' that to accept them, you have to accept a lack of worth and status as a lesser person, and submit yourself to 'better' people to help you. (Which in itself is a perversion of psychic shadow dynamics, into a superior / inferior relationship with the 'unsick' freudian analyst.)

Someone not so predisposed to see pathology in , (or project it onto,) others might just marvel at all the colors in the human psychic spectrum, and come away with an awe of life and it's many facets, but a Freudian-based analyst will almost always pre-assume sickness, because they tend to project their own shadows onto the face of the patient, or easier still, onto a 'type label,' which is then applied to the patient, to make the logic seem easier to swallow.

Freudians often see themselves as 'the doctor' and presuppose that everyone else in their scope is 'the sick patient.' It's a typal relationship that underscores any work or opinion with a sense that someone is ill in some way.

As Jung wrote, "Freudian is not a psychology of the healthy mind." As such, it's biggest application since it's inception has been in manipulation and control, and in creating a new, (and imaginary) 'class of undesirables' with a label of psychopathology stuck on them. It only serves, really, to help one marginalize and pathologize anything one doesn't like, without having to face the painful trial of looking at oneself at all.

As I demonstrate here, it works both ways. I can easily attack Breiner's validity by pointing out his type-label of being Freudian based.

But instead I'll try to marvel at the colors of the human rainbow, even the scared little men like Breiner who speak of everything as a defense, speak of 'maldeveloped egos' but fail to see what's written on their own faces for everyone else to see.

[Schatten Lupus]

http://www.narth.com/docs/transexpl.html

Well, other than the obvious that the guy never told his patient that you can't do much about physical stature and size, and having a very biased and narrow view of transsexuality, for being a Psychoanalyst he seems to not have a very good understanding of the most basic of Freudian concepts. Except for the sexual aspects, he seemed to be all over that, even though a good number of modern day Psychoanalyst do not put such an emphasis on sex being a primary driving force. But even still, he apparently is oblivious to the fact the some transsexuals keep in close contact with their families, their children, and some even get married. I wanna get a degree from where that dude got his, because it apparently must not take much effort, especially when it comes to doing actual research.


I had never heard of NARTH or Rekers before.
NARTH is blaming legal gay marriage in Sweden for a massive spike in divorce in that country. And of course it's all because it is the very unhappy and unsatisfied gays who found out they are just so unhappy with there lifestyle choice that they realized marriage only made it worse. And sadly NARTH is the second result in a Google search of "swedish divorce rate."


I had never heard of NARTH or Rekers before.
http://media.miamiherald.com/smedia/2010/05/07/22/7120116.embedded.prod_affiliate.56.JPG*points*HAW-HAW!

[Loni]

alas people like this abound all over of planet, for some it is to be, say, do anything against "us" as a group. others have other callings, they are called "antis" these people seem to be afraid that some were at some time somebody is...having fun.

i have run across and afoul of many "antis" in my life and not just for my dressing, these people think what they know and believe is is the ONLY correct way to live, and you are wrong, you are broken and need to "be fixed".

all we can do is get the word out as to who we are and what we about and why. some do see the light and come to find out that bowing down at the foot of the golden calf is a bad thing.
they open up there minds and think for them selves. and see the world for the beauty that is here.


.

[StaceyJane]

I just don't like the idea that crossdressing is only for sexual pleasure. I know I don't go out dress for a turn on, I do it because I have to be me.

[Jonianne]

.....Can you site more evidence of what you are accusing them of so I can form a valid opinion?.....

Please read this article about eliminating feminism in boys by George Rekers. The treatment begins on page 179 on teaching the mother how to repress the feminine desires in boys.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1311956/

Here is a testamony of what happen, found on this blogspot:

http://aebrain.blogspot.com/2010/05/my-final-word-on-george-alan-rekers.html

"Parents who brought their children to Rekers had to agree to participate in the "curing" of them. "Kraig," a four-year-old who participated in the UCLA Feminine Boy Project, was also monitored in the clinic's play-observation room. Only this time, it was his mother who wore the bug-in-the-ear, listening for her behavioral cues from the folks behind the wall. While playing, "Kraig would have seen her suddenly jerk upright, and look away from him toward the one-way window," Burke reports (based on transcripts of his case):

His mother was being prompted, through the earphones, by the doctor. She was told to completely ignore him, because he was engaged in feminine play. Kraig would have no understanding of what was happening to his mother. On one such occasion, his distress was such that he began to scream, but his mother just looked away. His anxiety increased, and he did whatever he could to get her to respond to him, but she just looked away. She must have seemed like a stranger to have changed her behavior toward him so suddenly and for no apparent reason . . . He was described as being in a panic, alternating between sobs and "aggressing at her," but again, when his distraught mother finally looked at him and began to respond, she stopped mid-sentence and abruptly turned away, as if he were not there. Kraig became so hysterical, and his mother so uncomfortable, that one of the clinicians had to enter and take Kraig, screaming, from the room.

Kraig's treatment continued in this vein. He was also put on the "token system" at home. Inappropriate, feminine behaviors earned him a red token, masculine ones, a blue token. Each red token earned him a spanking from his father. After more than two years of treatment, Kraig's behavior had turned around. He was now described by his mother as a "rough neck," and he no longer cared if his hair was neat or his clothes matched. But when he was eighteen, after years of being held up (under a pseudonym) by Rekers as "the poster boy for behavioral treatment of boyhood effeminacy," Kraig attempted suicide, because he thought that he might be gay."

[Hope]

Ugh... Liars and homophobes in lab-coats are the worst kind.

How long do you suppose it will be before THIS ass-hat is outed?

Viktoriya, the article is dripping with hypocrisy. Lets start with the idea that this agenda driven political action group has dressed itself up as an academic / professional organization. Lets continue with how the author describes himself as a sympathetic professional, and yet continues to refer to even post-op patience as "he." Lets round it out by pointing out that no matter what it is trying to pass itself off as, this is not academic work. This is at best a composite of his clinical experience (highly skewed by his personal belief structure) but as far as I know anecdotal experience still is not scientific evidence. There is no rigorous use of the scientific method, there is no research, no statistical analysis, just this homophobe's ass-hat opinion that all trannies are self destructive homosexual prostitutes preying on pure innocent strait men.

If this were just one shit-head who is convinced that god hates fags, that would be one thing - but when he dresses himself up as a professional and asks to be taken seriously as a leader in the transexual treatment community... well, to quote Admiral Akbar "It's a TRAP!" Which ironically, is exactly what he thinks we are. The really supper-duper-shitty part is that you fell into it... and if you did - and you are pretty conversant with the issues at hand - then others will too. And sadly, those others get to vote on whether you get to keep your job, or your apartment when you transition, or if it is ok for you to change a gender marker, or if it is ok to beat transexuals to death, because, you know, we are creepy. Personally, I find his brand of slip-shod academic bullshit repugnant and I don't want him influencing the electorate.

[SamanthaStMichaels]

It's been my opinion for the longest time that it's all about the money. All hate groups make a majority of money from hating. All organization needs an adversary. We are just theirs, and without us, the money and the tax breaks stop rolling in. If we all disappeared tomorrow, they would have to find someone else to pick on or find a 9 to 5 job.

We just need to keep catching them when they are dirty, and cut off the money. Plus with them helping us expose them it make things much easier.

Whether it's religion, sexual, gender, orientation, charity or political. It's all about generating money for themselves. Do you think these people want to work a normal job. LOL

[Traci Elizabeth]

Whenever I read this kind of BS, I am reminded of what my father (who was a predominate doctor and hospital administrator for several decades) once told me. He said he never met a Psychologist or Psychiatrist that wasn't a "quack" him or herself!

[Karen564]

Personally, I found Dr Breiner's writings almost as equally comical as I did upsetting..and from what read, it was all total BS..
What's sad is that those poor biased soles believe him & his cohorts...
In fact, every article on the Narth site I read is so heavily biased that it made me sick to my stomach...
His story about why John Hopkins Hospital closed their sex change clinic is not really true, yes there was a very small study made many years after on about 20 patients that had undergone SRS there, but those findings were also tainted with bias opinions from the same doctors that were against SRS from the start, except for one, that was once pro SRS, but then changed his mind 10 years after for some unknown reason...

Their was a time of turmoil at JH hospital because of a power struggle within the clinic after the two key doctors that started the clinic left to start another sex change clinic, one was in charge of the psychiatry staff & the other was in charge of plastic surgery, and their new ideas went against the old guards beliefs..so after they left, the old guard came back in to gain control again, then went back to their old way of thinking that GID could be cured with psychological treatments as they did prior the sex change clinics opening in 1965-66..

As far as Dr. Breiner goes, he must of been some pion, because I couldn't find any mention of him anywhere at that hospital..

As usual, like lots of things in this world, their was an internal power struggle, bruised egos & lots of old bias opinions floating around the hospital after the new surgical method was proved to be successful for the treatment of GID, and the old guard (mainly the psychiatrist staff) saw that it's very existence was a threat to some of their lively-hoods, which boils down to the almighty dollar.....

Well, I'm done ranting....lol :drink:

[AKAMichelle]

He misses one big point. Women talk about physically changing things about themselves all the time. My soon to be x-wife always has wanted a breast reduction and for some years now a face lift. People will always want to improve their looks and it is not limited to TS.

[TerryTerri]

One of the interesting things I noted was a COMPLETE lack of any footnotes to reference material the article was based upon. I don't remember seeing any accepted text of such a nature without a fairly decently long list of reference sources.
In example, his comment "There are a significant number of male homosexuals who would like to be a female with a penis" has absolutley nothing to back itself upon other than his out his butt comment.
You'd at least think he'd reference other equally BS papers to better attempt to make his article seem ligitimate!

My thoughts anyway. I think "self-rightousness" has got to be about the most harmful condition in our whole of human history. Funny thing is, time and time and time again in history it has been shown where the self-rightousness was wrong and great harm was caused.

[Melissa A.]

I understand the anger toward a body like this but to be perfectly honest, I am having a difficult time discerning the hypocrisy in this article.

From an academic standpoint, it makes some very valid points. The case study was noted for body image issues and was used to describe the value of psychological counseling in a transsexual case.

What I mean to say, is there is verbiage here that can be removed from context and made to look like it paints transgender care in a negative light but as a whole the article is sound.


Can you site more evidence of what you are accusing them of so I can form a valid opinion?

Yes, I believe they are confusing reality with archaic judeo-christian beliefs and forming potentially damaging opinions on the nature of homosexuality but I want to know specifics.

The article about trans people is sound? It isn't anything but silly stereotypes and opinions masquerading as research. These people aren't just some blowhard politico ranting about trans teachers or some gay "agenda". As I said, they are dangerous.

And if you still need help looking for hypocrisy, here ya go:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp/37031183#37031183

[SamanthaStMichaels]

I so love Rachel Maddow. Again as I said why wouldn't this guy not want to bash us. He made tens of thousands of dollars appearing as an expert against us.

I want to become a bigot too so I can make some money to pay for my transition. But who should my victim be? I want to start a non profit tax exempt organization against somebody or something so I can make money being the head of it.

I got it! Transgendered roosters who lay eggs. They change their sex because it's a choice! RIGHT? :daydreaming:

[Schatten Lupus]

But who should my victim be? I want to start a non profit tax exempt organization against somebody or something so I can make money being the head of it.
I've often thought about a group that is bigots towards bigots. This group, possible called nBAB (non-Bigots against Bigots), will take such "studies" and counter them with real research, hard facts, and exposing such assholes for the haters they are.

[Karen564]

And if you still need help looking for hypocrisy, here ya go:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp/37031183#37031183

Thanks for the clip !

Rachel was awesome !!!!!!:thumbsup:

And loved how she got the point across....& which at one point, had me spewing my coffee.....lol

[Stephanie Anne]

Thanks for the great information from everyone.

I did not really know about this group and try and avoid forming opinions until I know all sides.

This is a very scary organization indeed as they use biased studies to form negative views completely contradictory to established standards of care.

Talk about setting progress back decades :facepalm:

[bobi jean]

some very interesting clips today!!!
I wonder how much time and money the females this A-holes life have spent to improve their looks.
I have personally never met a woman who was 100% satisfied with their GOD given looks and or bodies, (myself included)... you know the, too fat, to many wrinkles, double chin, hips to big, breasts to big or to smal (one bigger than the other), and all the other several million things we girls find wrong with our own bodies. clearly, this A-HOLE is in a mind set was probably formed when his mommy or daddy caught him looking at other boys instead of the girls.
It is kind of nice to know that he will probably never be paid to speak in anti gay situations again tho. maybe it is time for him to join us. What do ya think girls? should we invite him to join crossdressers.com or NOT ????

[Niya W]

some very interesting clips today!!!
I wonder how much time and money the females this A-holes life have spent to improve their looks.
I have personally never met a woman who was 100% satisfied with their GOD given looks and or bodies, (myself included)... you know the, too fat, to many wrinkles, double chin, hips to big, breasts to big or to smal (one bigger than the other), and all the other several million things we girls find wrong with our own bodies. clearly, this A-HOLE is in a mind set was probably formed when his mommy or daddy caught him looking at other boys instead of the girls.
It is kind of nice to know that he will probably never be paid to speak in anti gay situations again tho. maybe it is time for him to join us. What do ya think girls? should we invite him to join crossdressers.com or NOT ????
If you talk with my travel assistant that the story called "Lucien," you will find I spent a great deal of time sharing scientific information on the desirability of abandoning homosexual intercourse, and I shared the Gospel of Jesus Christ with him in great detail.

He will still be speaking. He said he was being like Jesus with Mary Magdalene. "Jesus wines and dined prostitutes why can't I "

[kellycan27]

Personally I wouldn't waste my time with people like him who espouse this kind of rheteoric. All too soon they get exposed for what they really are, and I seriously doubt that anyone who subscribes to this kind of BS will garner any kind of enlightenment through education. :thumbsdn:

[Daenna Paz]

He will still be speaking. He said he was being like Jesus with Mary Magdalene. "Jesus wines and dined prostitutes why can't I [quote]

Probably because you (him) can't save their souls ... (ducking now) :eek:

[Heatherx75]

If you talk with my travel assistant that the story called "Lucien," you will find I spent a great deal of time sharing scientific information on the desirability of abandoning homosexual intercourse, and I shared the Gospel of Jesus Christ with him in great detail.


I'm sure there were many wild nights in hotel rooms of sharing scientific information and the gospel of Jesus with that young man. :heehee:

[SamanthaStMichaels]

Dr. George Rekers a leader of the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality has resigned! What will we do without his love and guidance?

They were right all along. There is a cure for being gay and now George Reker is cured! He is now gay. Praise Narth for curing George and bringing him out of the closet.

What does George have to say about coming out? Let's see.

"I am immediately resigning my membership in NARTH to allow myself the time necessary to fight the false media reports that have been made against me. With the assistance of a defamation attorney, I will fight these false reports because I have not engaged in any homosexual behavior whatsoever. I am not gay and never have been."

Oh no he's still in denial. He truly now needs our love and support. Quick someone make a facebook page in support of our poor new found friend George.

Which calls to question. If you pay for it does it still make you gay? :D

[Kaitlyn Michele]

There is a cure for being gay and now George Reker is cured! He is now gay. :D

awesome

[Myojine]

He will still be speaking. He said he was being like Jesus with Mary Magdalene. "Jesus wines and dined prostitutes why can't I [quote]

Probably because you (him) can't save their souls ... (ducking now) :eek:

since when did religion ACTUALLY save anyone?

as i recall all it breeds is hate like this heretical idiocy one closeminded fool wants to post on the internet.

[Stephenie]

Here is some one who needs a therapist more than I do.

[Faith_G]

since when did religion ACTUALLY save anyone?

as i recall all it breeds is hate like this heretical idiocy one closeminded fool wants to post on the internet.Religion never did save anyone. God does that.

[GypsyKaren]

Let's not turn this into an anti-religion thread because of some idiot, k?

GK

[Hope]

Religion never did save anyone. God does that.


Let's not turn this into an anti-religion thread because of some idiot, k?

GK

Big thanks go out to both of you.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

His own shame caused him to hurt many many people..
it has nothing to do with god or religion..he only uses them to deceive himself

[got2free.Ollie]

wow unfortunately I decided to satisfy my curiosity and read the first document...I got half way through and then my fist started twitching I wish those idiots were there when it twitched... TWITCH BAM!! "Oh sorry man, didn't see you standing there" XD