Interview experience

[Kaitlyn Michele]

YEsterday i met an outplacement professional to start a more structured job search..

she was hired by my old company and i had never met her...

We talked for about 20 minutes and she asked why I left the company..i told her about my leave of absence..and then she asked why did i take a leave of absence ...i asked her what the company told her and she said nothing...

!!!!!!

so i said...well, when i worked there i was "***"(male name) .....she paused and said...really???

i have been getting more and more confident about fitting in, but i now i had a special moment, i asked her what she knew and whether she suspected and she said "no" and "not for one moment" and told me she found it hard to believe, because she didnt see any sign at all even after she was told....

she is now my favorite outplacement advisor!!!!!!:heehee:

btw...over the next 90 minutes she did struggle with the concept, she gets paid when i find a job, so it highlights the difficulty we face when potential employers think we are trans

we discussed whether to tell or not, and she had no idea how to advise me...i pointed out to her if you google my name, the first hit is my name change notice. so frankly its not gonna be an issue for better or worse

[Regina]

Hi Kaitlyn,

I was curious, how are you going to handle employment references on your resume? Have you gone back to previous employers to try and change your name and gender? I'm not sure what the law is in your state, I had a experience where I currently work, a young man resigned transitioned and later found employment with another company that was TG friendly...(we are not here!) When she called back several years later and tried to change her name and gender our HR department refused by basically using the excuse you were a male when employed and a male when you left. I often wonder with her legal name change if she could have gotten an attorney and forced the company to change her name. All she was trying to do was trying to clean up her resume in case she needed to go look for work in the future.

I'm stuck here, my job is good I've got to much time invested to leave...so I will never be 24/7, more like 16/5 and 24/2 in a couple of years until I retire. Good luck on your search!

Regina

[SamanthaStMichaels]

What line of work you looking for? I'm not sure how close you are to me, but I might know some place that is hiring.

Personally in work situations I'm not telling anyone unless they ask. I think our gender status shouldn't define our talent that we bring to the table for our employer. I wish we lived in that world. A better world would be to have been born correctly to begin with. :sad:

I do realize that you have no work experience without bringing up the past employment and the name change is of course a downside when trying to get a job.

Of course I am not in your situation yet. As soon as I find employment and/or financing my transition process will accelerate. I however will continue working in the entertainment industry. As soon as I overcome my illness, I will be opening a new business by the beginning of next year. And I will be like every other employer/business owner. I will discriminate. I will hire GLBT people first! :lol2: I know I'm EVIL!

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Hi regina

In New Jersey its pretty easy...it took some forms and some waiting and about $400...

My old company changed myname on everything...so they have me as Kate and my insurance and 401k switched over..
so they supported my name change but didnt support me working there!!

[pamela_a]

i have been getting more and more confident about fitting in, but i now i had a special moment, i asked her what she knew and whether she suspected and she said "no" and "not for one moment" and told me she found it hard to believe, because she didnt see any sign at all even after she was told....
Kaitlyn, most people see only what they expect to see. Besides, judging from your picture, you look great.




I was curious, how are you going to handle employment references on your resume? Have you gone back to previous employers to try and change your name and gender?

After my name was changed at my current employer I contacted my previous employers to ask they also change my name. I was informed by several HR reps that information is usually not retained for more than 10 years and when checking references they rarely go back that far. I'm sure some are different but that's what I was told.

The only places I made sure to get my name changed was the schools I attended.

[Eileen]

Kaitlyn what is your outplacement advisor going to say about your gender. If she presents you as a ciswoman, there is not need to say anything until it is time for the company do do background checks. Once you have the interview they will be impressed with you and the gender issue will not be nearly as important! Will any of your other prior employers change your files or is that something you want to visit. In any case all the best.

Eileen

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Eileen...thats the question

what should she say? her business is built on credibility and judgement.. if she recommends me, it reflects on her..if someone calls and says "why didnt you tell me?" then what should she say? she can say its not relevant, but unfortunately thats not for her to decide..in the business world being inclusive is good for business, but being inclusive in the business world includes serving bigots and other ignorant people.

even if i successfully pass and blend 100% in a new job, the first google search of my name will out me!! so in the end, i'm thinking that i will approach it that i need to disclose but also to try help the person to understand it doesnt matter...i can accomplish that if my presentation fits and if folks look at me and say things like my advisor said...its a very good thing if the perception is that I've successfully transitioned..its a hurdle, and i have to jump it...

we can sit on our forum and wail at the moon about unfairness, but the simple fact is that I freak many people out, others are curious but not in a good way.....being tolerated and even accepted is great, but getting hired is a another thing

...its a tough question and we are nowhere near the right answer of nobody cares..

at higher levels of companies its even more important..you need total support to be hired, my current opinion is that it's going to be near impossible for me to get a similar job...note i said "near" hehe

because of all this, i'm exploring all kinds of ideas to start a business myself or change fields entirely..what i found out yesterday is that i'm in the same club as many mid 40's men and women that lost 10-20+ jobs and are trying to reinvent themselves..

reinvent!!?? now that's something i know about!!!!! :D

[Jorja]

Kaitlyn Michele,
Seeing as how the laws covering employment vary greatly from state to state, I suggest you contact a lawyer in your state for a consultation on this matter. Preferably one with transgender experience.

[Midnight Skye]

Wow Kaitlyn... I hate to snoop but what job market are you working in. I hate to say it... but it might actually be a good discussion topic to discuss what job markets are more TG friendly and which to avoid.

While fairness is lovely and wonderful. I think most of us will fess up, when it comes to getting a paycheck to cover the bills... we'd much rather know what areas we have the best chance of working in!

[Kaitlyn Michele]

It's not a legal issue...in fact, having legal protection is a double edged sword..

if i am denied an interview, or i am not hired, then that will never ever be a legal issue. how can i prove discrimination? its impossible..literally...they can choose not to hire me for any reason under the sun..over qualified, under qualified, didnt like the resume, not enough education, not the right education, etcetcetc

now if i'm hired, and then i don't get the promotion, or i don't like what somebody said in the bathroom...then i might have legal recourse and companies are scared to death over this...i become a risk simply because i am protected.

this is why some folks have not disclosed until after they were hired...thats just gotta be really hard tho when you have a 20_ career and you are well known in a field...there is no way an employer will not be impacted by this disclosure later on...your boss may feel betrayed or lied to...your bosses boss may tell your boss to keep you out of important things..you'll never know this happened..its business this is wrong, but its life...

there is no easy answer..i dont think one field is better than another...its about people, one on one discussions, getting people on your side, getting the right person to back you at the right time...having them realize there is NO FEAR and to believe in you..and then making yourself indispensible..

i think if you have a technical background and a real non commodity skill, you have the best chance...if you are young, and looking for careers, don't think about the industry, think about the skill...what skills are very very hard to find? then go learn that skill..

[kellycan27]

Kaitlyn, if you were gay would you feel the need to disclose to a potential employer? Personally I don't believe that it's any of their business. What should be of paramount interest is whether or not I am qualified to do the job. The job market is tough, so why would I want to shoot myself in the foot, by tossing in something that may or may not be a point of contention,especially ( as I have mentioned before) if it's not any of their business and has nothing to do with my qualifications. If they find out down the road, I would hope that my job performance would prove my value, not my gender. Non disclosure isn't a lie, quite simply it has nothing to do with the job. If it was to come out during a background check and they were to ask me why I didn't disclose, I would simply state that I didn't see any place on the application that asked me. I saw the qualifications, section and I saw the criminal conviction section... I didn't see the transgendered section so I assumed that it wasn't something that you felt you needed to know. I answered every question that you seemed to think was relative on your application honestly. If they decide not to hire me because i didn't disclose I suppose it's their right, but I am certainly not going to give them ammunition to use against me... I am always going to at least give myself a fighting chance, and if they fire me for it down the road, I suppose it's better than to have just resigned myself to the fact that they may not have hired me in the first place because I was TG.

Kel

[Katesback]

When we had lunch in Janruary I was impressed at your presentation. I think I even said it. NOW ITS TIME TO BELIEVE YA HAVE IT TOGHETHER.

See ya next month when I am in your town running women over in rollerderby!

Katie

[carolinoakland]

I work with a varying group of employers and co workers. From job to job. Since I've transitioned I don't walk up to people that I think I used to know and out myself by walking up and saying, " Hi, I think I know you but I used to be..." Recently though I had the best experience...

I was on a job with someone I thought I used to know but there wasn't any time to discretely talk to him. Three days into the gig I get this call and it's the guy... and he ask's me " Carol, why after knowing me for 16 years you work with me for three days and you don't even say hi, I didn't even know it was you until somebody told me"
I almost cried, I told him that's the best compliment I've gotten. And then it happened again with a GG I know. She came up to me and told me that while she'd known about my transition she'd looked over and didn't recognize me. And when she found out she came up and told me this and " and you look FANTASTIC! Bitch I'm jealous."

The upswing is that I've become comfortable with myself at last, you can't see the old gender anymore. sigh.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Thnx Kelly..i am definitely interested in feedback on this...

i hear you and fully agree with you in theory..but as a practical matter, i feel that at my experience level it is going to matter whether i like it or not..and the people that I tend to deal with are very senior and knowledgeable people, they tend to be tolerant and accepting, but they protect their turf like a rabid dog and NIMBY is standard...and anyway, many many people already know because i left the company and a small group knows...and they told 2 friends..and they told 2 friends...:doh:

i am not a technician...i was a relationship manager that handled financial institutions...corporate finance, that's my skill ...i can try to translate it to other things and that's an option...in that case, i would go in cold, i would not disclose at first and let the chips fall...i wasnt clear on that in my earlier post..

i hate to say it, but we are considered "below gay" on companies radars...we are not understood, so we are feared...once we are outed, our "difference" is there for all to see...
its not right, its not fair, and in the end it will be illegal, but legalities don't matter that much in a corporate world...

so do i just leave the corporate world??? i guess i can but then i'm just a totally unskilled, inexperienced worker at close to 50 years old...in that case, it doesnt matter at all if i'm trans, but i'm a lousy investment ..so its gonna be a thread the needle type thing and i hope whatever i do, i don't screw it up

the bottom line is that for years i only cared about transition...i did it at any cost...now i pay the piper...in hindsight i would tell girls that no matter how desperate you feel (and i know the feeling !!), try to include your career in your thinking...

i have a chance to land on my feet, I have advanced degrees in math and business, but it might be a long and tricky road to get a position that suits me and allows me to thrive..
both as a woman and as a provider for my future

as i reread my post, i can tell that i'm actually pretty undecided on whether to disclose and maybe i'm leaning towards not disclosing more than i thought..:eek:

[carolinoakland]

I realized at one point that while I will always be a transwoman... I live a womans life. And while it's still pretty new ( full time for 15months now ) I had to focus on not outting myself by talking about my transition. And that by definition the word transition means changing from one thing to another. And, with exception of some facial hair removal and surgery; I'm there. I'm a woman. And I need to not be anything else anymore. I don't tell people that I don't know and I do my best to not talk about myself. I've actually taken to politely deferring questions at work by " I don't like to discuss my personal life at work. I talk about in private if you like but let's talk about something else. " I keep my mind on my mantra. "I'm a sweet and delicate flower."

[celeste26]

Working in a field that does much government contract work ensures that the work place will be gender friendly. Part of their contract stipulates they must follow the guidelines or possibly endanger losing their contract with the government.

There are lots of different fields which have these types of contracts so use your imagination and go for them.

[LisaM]

Kaitlyn,

As usual, you seem to be giving careful thought to your job search. But the one thing that strikes me is when you point out how difficult it is for someone near our age getting new jobs in this environment.

Sending out resumes, IMHO, is a waste of time. The only people that I know who have found employment recently have used their past contacts to get interviews so hopefully your outplacement counselor can be helpful.

I'd be more inclined to look into starting your own business. It can be daunting but the rewards are great and you don't have to worry about being displaced.

[CharleneT]

. . . .

I've actually taken to politely deferring questions at work by " I don't like to discuss my personal life at work. I talk about in private if you like but let's talk about something else. " I keep my mind on my mantra. "I'm a sweet and delicate flower."

I like your attitude! I am hoping to employ something along those lines in my attempt at getting a job here at the U of Iowa. I have a small business but the economy has done great damage and the haul to recovery for me is going to be long ( it is an art related biz). Anyway, I'm going in with the hope that my status is irrelavent. All my previous employment records with the U have had my name changed, so I am at least ahead a bit there. I expect some NIMBY for sure, even though it is state work. Unless they do not read me ... in which case it is just whether they like me as a employee or not.

I LOVE your mantra !!!!!!!

:love:

p.s. this is a great thread because for those of us going/being full time, employment is a huge issue. thanks Kaitlynn for starting it ;)

pp.ss. I just googled my full name in a couple of combos ... did not come up with the name change. That surprised me - also, I guess, pleased me. I know that a back ground check will find it, as local DHS office did one a week after my change and they found it ( I'm helping a friend with visitation of kids and they require background checks if you do that). So many employers do those checks now that I suppose we will always be "outed" at least in that way. Heck, the local hospital does a full check when hiring a part time nurses aid !!

[Regina]

Not that I routinely follow the rules...so take this with caution, but you look good, the career counselor had no idea of your past, you have gone back and changed your name with employers and schools...I guess if I was in your shoes...uh sorry I meant heels!...why say anything? If your confident and present well I wouldn't volunteer anything.

My wife (and future ex-wife) is an HR manager we work for the same company, like I said previously transitioning here would be bad, but if you were completely transitioned and presented well and had school and employment references already changed you would probably get hired without difficulty...I wouldn't say a word about my past. The HR department here would want verification of your degrees and would verify your past employment, they might check a personal reference and that's it, if your past checked out all they care about is do you have the qualifications to do the job, if you did you would be hired.



Regina

[Kaitlyn Michele]

so many good thoughts.:hugs:

this is all real time for me so apologies for so many long posts..i am trying to decide some things right now

its difficult to describe what my job was..i raised very big money for my company, it was a public position, I dealt with big Wall Street firms and everyone knew me, my name is in the companies annual report..etc etc...if i ever use my past job in my resume there is zero chance of keeping my past under the radar...

I have wracked my brain, but i just can't come up with a scenario where i work around this issue

and by the way, gov't contract type of stuff is a good idea....i am looking into that...they don't really contract out work like mine..my feeling there is that i have a shot to be a consultant, but again, no one is gonna hire a consultant without great references...my state raises alot of money and has financial problems so i've reached out and sent my resume to them

I am not complaining, i made good money, and it has given me time and money to execute my transition in my own personal way...and i am delighted with my transition so far.
I did what I had to do, and i'm very proud about it...but money will run out soon and i have to make some decisions..

One thing I am realizing from this thread is that I want a female life, as much as its possible.....and i'm realizing in my own mind, that its very unlikely that I can achieve that by taking advantage of my work experience...

which leads me to start thinking my best course is to start evaluating other careers along with all the other middle age folks out of work.. and in that case, I couldnt agree more that my gender past is totally and completely irrelevant. My references will be happy to keep my past private if their reference is not made to business peers.

has anyone made that choice?...you had a career as a guy, and totally left it and was able to survive in a new career as a woman?

the only person i know that did this became a real estate agent..thats probably not a good career choice right now..

[Empress Lainie]

:2c:

I have been living as a woman since 2007. I got my transcript at the University changed for both gender and name (Thankfully!)

I was lucky to get F on my ID right away after my name change.

I do not reveal I am a transwoman to anyone. I check F on employment applications.

I worked with my own engineering company (as male) for 13 years. So my company is my own reference, but I also called two people I wanted to be able to use for references that I had worked with and got them to agree to give a reference in my new name and gender.

I have been employed twice by the federal government on the census, and as far as they have been concerned I am a
"normal" female.

For the job I am working now after 2 years of unemployment due to my being fired for simply introducing myself to a new music student's parent as a a transgendered woman, I was hired as a "normal" female. Reading this company's manual they devote pages and pages to how they do not discriminate against anyone for gender or sexual orientation, so I feel that if I was ever outed, it wouldn't matter there.

Maybe the EEOC will prosecute my suit against the City of Las Vegas, and maybe they won't. But if they do, I should get enough money to afford an orchie at least and maybe SRS. I would do like some others I know and take a leave for a hysterectomy.

It is very sad that we have to use misrepresentation in this world simply because we are TS, but for our own safety and livelihood it seems to be necessary.

Realizing that my facebook could reveal my trans status since at the beginning I put my whole story on there as well as classmates, I changed the profile to private for friends only.

I would have liked to run for office but know that within a day of filing the media would start a clamor about the
TRANS CANDIDATE. So I decided in my best interest to not do it.

So for your information, this is my own way to handle it, and I certainly grant it may not work for everyone.

[LeannL]

Kate,

Obviosuly I don't know where in NJ you live but it is a small state so it may not matter. I would suggest finding a large multinational company (pharmaceuticals come to mind for NJ) if you can. Most if not all have corporate policies that protect us (as well as gays and lesbians). If people don't follow their internal guidlines they will get fired. You can also call (or have your outplacement person call the HR department and ask how they would handle the situation without even mentioning their name. I know that some companies have said that gender information doesn't go past HR to those that do the interviewing and it sounds like you won't have any problem one on one.

Good luck from someone who just landed a job (although in male mode) just north of the NJ border,

Leann

[Karen564]

has anyone made that choice?...you had a career as a guy, and totally left it and was able to survive in a new career as a woman?

Yes, I did make that choice....and did it for a multitude of reasons..

But as far as surviving in my new career, that remains to be seen, because I still have a years worth of school left & an externship to complete before I can take my certification(s) exams, and hope to be accepted for volunteer work at some local Hospitals this year so I can use that time as experience on the resume..
It'll suck working for free for a while, but that's what I need do for a chance of ever getting my foot in the door..

Then after (hopefully) I do land a job, and start paying down my current the student loan back, I then plan on going back to school again to get into a more specialized area of medicine to increase my earning potential..

Well, that's the plan anyway, but since that's a ways down the road yet, who knows what will happen by then...

I was actually hoping to have won the big lottery by now :daydreaming:, but looks like I can't sit around waiting for that day to come....lol

[Karan49]

I became Karan in 1988. I began Googling my name for the last seven or
eight years and it was only this past year that my formerly male name
enter became associated with my female name. Google has removed
stealth mode forever. Good luck to most of us.

Karan

[Karen564]

I became Karan in 1988. I began Googling my name for the last seven or
eight years and it was only this past year that my formerly male name
enter became associated with my female name. Google has removed
stealth mode forever. Good luck to most of us.

Karan
Karan,
May I as how it was linked....
Was it because of the newspaper clip stating the name change?
Or the court documents?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Hi Karen...i think its great that you keep moving ahead..
i can tell you that i know 2 transwomen that got their degrees in their 40's and 50's, and now they are working and thriving in their new careers..:hugs:

and the public notice of name change is what gets you on google...if you type in your name and your county, see what happens...for me i get my name change notice, my facebook page etc etc..

[Karan49]

Hi Kaitlyn,

My legal name change was in November 1988 and the Google connection did't occur until this year. I'm not sure when Google started, probably after 2000. So it took about 10 years for the two names to become associated. Why did it take so long? The information was published so many years ago; why did it show just this year?

Karan

P.S. I did Google as you suggested and no name change notice came up, but both gender names came up as associated.

[olga]

Hi Kate,

I’m pretty new here on this site and I only know a little bit about you from reading some of your posts. It seems you have been very successful in your job, you possess great skills and advanced degrees. From the thoughtful way you write your posts, I think you would be a very good teacher.

Have you ever considered a career that would enable you to pass on your experiences to the next generation? I am teaching typography part time at two local design schools next to my full-time job in the creative industry, and I found it to be most rewarding.

Just a thought…

I wish you best of luck in your new life and with your new job… it will all come together!


Hugs,
olga

[Nicole Erin]

Employment is a concern.
I know soon I will have to take a crap job until I can work in a salon, at that point, my gender should not be an issue.

[maid_georgette]

Oh so many things that i haven't even considered. Not likely at my age to go for transition but all that have the chance and follow through to do so, i am envious of.