The crossdressing compromise

[Engendered]

Yesterday, there was a topic about a simple solution to the dishonesty, and the hiding most of us do on some level from ourselves, our partner, family and friends and the world in general. "Just come out" was the message, and it sparked a lot of conversation and debate. That topic is gone now, which is a little frustrating as I was interested in everyone's opinions. A side-point came up about the changes that have happened in just a single generation, which give rise to very different views between young crossdressers and older ones. Although, on the road from total derision to total acceptance, we're still only 20% of the way there. (gay people would be closer to 50%) And generational differences aside, the point about an older CDer having much more built up to lose was an important one. All these points are lost now. :sad:

I presume personal attacks happened in that topic when I was asleep, or that it escalated out of control, because otherwise it seems that we're too fragile of a community to tolerate disagreements, and differences of opinion. But I think if we're to grow as a community, everyone must be allowed to voice their view (as long as it's respectful) without fear of a deletion or ban.

So, I thought I'd start a softer topic. (I am not brash or confrontational with my views, and don't get bent out of shape if someone disagrees with me) :)
We must all decide the level of "out" that we are. Some are completely in, apart from using this forum. Some are out to 1 or 2, but not their SO. Some are out to their SO but nobody else. Some with their friends, but not their family...some with both, but not in their career.

So my question is: You are out at this moment in time to a certain degree. Would you like to be out even more? Who would you like to know under ideal circumstances? Who would you never ever tell? If someone told you, you would be as closeted when you died as you are today, would that make you feel sad in any way?

For example. I told my mother about 5 years ago. She loves me unconditionally, and we don't talk about it much, but she picks up the odd thing now and then that she thinks I might like. There exists another universe out there where I did not tell her. Is she happier in that universe? Am I? I like to think the honesty has brought us closer as she knows I'm likely to be honest with her in other areas of my life. But maybe I shouldn't have taken her "normal" image of her son away?

The compromise is the balance between being true to ourselves and adversely effecting the people we care about. Where is that balance for you?

[BRANDYJ]

Very well stated Engendered. And a very good question. I am out to my SO. Have been since day one. In fact we met on another lifestyle site where she saw pictures of me in both female and male mode. She made first contact. I am very happy and blessed to have her in my life and my soul mate. I have no secrets about anything with her. I also have a few GG friends that I felt the desire to tell after knowing them and judging how they may react. I was correct to trust those I chanced telling. I am not sorry at all. Each one accepts that part of me as a friend. I am not out in the sense I go out dressed other then to places that fully accept us transgendered. I will not and do not go out shopping en-fem. no one where I work knows and I think that is the safest way to be.
Yes, I do care about other people's feelings. So I would not burden anyone, friend or family that I felt might be alarmed offended or otherwise uncomfortable with their knowing. I chose carefully who I tell. Oddly enough, the only one that I chose to tell that was a huge mistake was one of my brothers. He is ultra religious and basically will not have anything to do with me now. His loss, not mine, yet since he is family, I do miss him in my life.

[linnea]

A year ago, after keeping my secret very well for over 50 years, I came out to my closest family. I am glad for that; I'm not sure that all of them are (it varies among them). My spouse now knows and is still quite uneasy but not hostile about the topic.
If I died today, I would not die with a great feeling of gloom about the extent that I am out of the closet. There are other people with whom I hope to share my secret, and I expect to tell some others who are good friends of mine.
Keeping the secret took a lot of energy; I'm glad that I can use that energy to more positive ends now.

[Amanda Stubbs]

As a youngster, it was very confusing being a crossdreser. There were no others to talk to, no books, newspapers, websites... nothing !

The only things you'd ever see were articles about people like Quinten Crisp, Danny la Rue, Jeremy Thorpe, people similar to us who were often riddiculed in the press and media. Crossdressing was simply not accepted unless it was on stage or film and portayed in a humourous light.

The younger generations that are enjoying these more liberated times owe a lot to the ground breakers who have been sacrificed by the media for thier quirks.

[Kate Simmons]

That balance can be very capricious at times, believe me.:heehee:

[Jonianne]

......But maybe I shouldn't have taken her "normal" image of her son away?.....

Finding out that you can love and accept someone who doesn't fit the "normal" mould, is a major life lesson for all of us. Hiding something from an important, adult, friend or relative in our life, because we think we are "protecting" them, doesn't help them to grow in their own life maturity and relationships.

With others, a "need to know" factor is the basis as to whether I tell them or not. I would try to shield small children (from possible taunting by others) to some degree, without completly isolating them from the truth and reality. "Small steps, Ellie, small steps."

[MissKara]

At the time which I had an SO who knew, she was 100% accepting (As most of your probally already know), but when I came out to my mother she told me that she would have a heart attack if she saw me dressed as Kara :(

To answer your question: I'd love to be out more but where I am living at the moment makes it next to impossible. In an ideal situation, I'd like everyone to know and be accepting about Kara :) I would really feel sad if I died like this, not being fully out :(

Lots of Love,
Miss Kara

[Renelle]

I was also disappointed to see that thread disappear this morning. Maybe it got heated, or maybe we were just talking in circles, but it seemed like an honest debate. Nothing wrong with laying it on the table IMO.

The first question we should be asking before outing ourselves is "how will this improve their lives?" For instance, both of my parents are in their 80's. Do they really need this at this late date? Why not just let them die in peace?

Certainly, an SO would need to know, but who else? I don't want to know aspects of brother's personal life, so why would he want to know mine? My co-workers gossip enough as it is, and I don't know what they do either. There's a difference between communication and throwing information in somebody's face.

[AKAMichelle]

I think you poised the question perfectly. It is a balance act which we over time allow to change. I personally understand how people feel about being afraid to tell anyone much less walk out the door dressed. I was one of those people. That when I decided to get over the fear and be a victim of my fear.


I came out to my wife and instead of bringing us closer it destroyed my marriage by becoming the final straw.
My kids know and they have no desire to see me dressed. One of them is really bothered by it and can't talk to me.
Some of my friends know while most do not.
I personally believe that the one person who must know is your SO. Mine didn't at first but the next one will from the beginning.
Clients are something else entirely. I will probably never be comfortable enough to tell them.
My parents will probably never know for sure since I have no reason to expect that they would accept it.
I have no problem going out dressed to almost any venue dressed, but sporting events and concerts I am not ready for yet.

[Dee2U]

I am quite touched by this thread. As I have said before - I am so deep in the clsoet that I could be in the next room. That said, I dont think that we can or should be forcing anyone to become more open minded. I hope someday to open up with my SO but I am not planning on acceptance. I would definitely not open up to my elderly relatives. It is beyond their ken. Sort of like how I prefer to ignore their unintential racism and sexism. If I did open up to my SO I would have no problem opening up to my adult children. They are very forward thinking....Dee

[msginaadoll]

I am not out. Or should I say my siter and mother know that I dressed in the past, but I believe dont think i continue. My wife does not know. In my case I dont think any good could come of me telling her except to relieve pressure from me. Sure it might make me freeer but at the expense of totally destroying another I dont think so. Maybe that sounds dramatic but nobody knows my situation but me. While some marriages survive the coming out if you will, many are also destroyed. I know we could argue all we want if that is a true marriage etc, but it is a marriage. Just my two cents and I know many disagree which I can deal with. We are all different and I dont try to box others in so I hope they dont me as well!:)

[melina]

I am not out either, but I have started shaving my legs and underarms. I have kept this secret for 35 years and 24 years of marrage. I wear womens shorts and sometimes panties with her knowledge, but thats it.
fearful of diclosing any more, i really love my wife and i dont believe my dressing would go over well....some day im sure melina will get out.

[Sarah Doepner]

You have identified a pretty fair example of different boundaries for different relationships. We are at the bullseye and there are rings around us. For some there is one ring and everyone is in, for others there are two rings with us alone in the middle and everyone else outside. For most of us there are multiple rings where the level of disclosure changes along with need.

I stand with my wife in the center ring. The next ring right now is filled with the sisters in my support group and a few other Transfolk who have seen me in both modes (does the bi-mode photo link count here?). Outside that are the people who may one day know, family members and closest friends, all who are believed to be open and trustworthy. Beyond that even more who have no need to find out.

The thing is, some of the people in that outward ring are controlers for who gets in from the nearest ring. My wife's parents are in their 80's and we agree there is no need to bring them in to the bullseye. Our grandchildren are also in that ring and are just a little to young for us to overcome some of their parents judgement issues. Yes, unfortunately one or two of my children are in the outer ring while a couple others are next to the bullseye. I've retired so work is no longer an issue.

[Lexine]

I shared your sentiments about said thread Engendered and posted those thoughts about it on that thread as well, but I think this way of presenting the question seems a bit better. Anyways, back to the topic at hand.

At this point in my life I can go out en femme whenever I want to, provided that I don't 1) Go to work en femme or 2) Go to family functions en femme. This is completely fine with me, as I have absolutely no intentions to abandon my boy side whatsoever. With that said, I am completely empathetic about my "sisters'" situation here in regards to coming out in their lives which is why I spend some quality time browsing the forums and replying. I have come out to my closest friends and to potential dates and feel that I don't need to reveal myself to any more people unnecessarily. If I did choose to reveal myself to most people, they will get too hung up on the fact that I wear women's clothing and be too busy to label me and slap stereotypes in my face rather than actually understanding my motivations and why I do it, which is a pain to have to explain because you'll be undoing years of "programming" so to speak. Putting on women's clothes just happens to be part of the act but people tend to think it is something more, based off of their personal experience. It's not a fear of rejection that prevents me from doing this, but it's something more along the lines of, "They really don't need to know because I'm never going to hang out with them en femme anyway." Yes, my girl mode is cute, open-minded, generous, soft spoken, and really fun as I've made her, but I feel that that side of me should be a treat to the people who truly care about me deeply as an individuals. Either way, the fact that less people know does not stop me from going out at all.

[Joanne Curl]

Great topic and well stated. This kind of discussion is what keeps bringing me back to this forum (and of course the cute pictures!). I'm only out on this forum and the internet groups I belong too. I've been to a few cross dresser functions when I've been able to squeeze them in. I'm one of the awful ones who is married and has not told my wife. I hint alot but I don't think she could handle it and I can't risk losing her. I know she loves me unconditionally but I think telling her would cause an unrepairable rift in our relationship. I know I'm lying to her because I haven't told about this side of me and that is something that I'm so ashamed of- not that I'm a cross dresser but that I haven't been honest with her. I know if would/will destroy her trust.

[t-girlxsophie]

Lets just say the last topic degenerated into a right mess,This time the question has been rather better phrased.
In an Ideal world I would be out to everyone,but thats just not gonna happen,I would lose a few ppl close to me esp my Son,and am not going to ever put myself in that position.I dont HAVE to tell everyone

I am better off than most ppl in that I have many folk in my life that are ok with the fact im a Crossdresser,and of course my lovely wife is behind me 100% that is good enough in my personal situation

[Elizabeth Ann]

I witnessed the demise of the earlier thread, and while it contained some thought provoking discussion, it was very ugly in the end, with foul language and people referred to as various body parts.

Beyond a fascination with women's underwear (which I honestly thought all men possessed) my crossdressing did not really develop until my 50's. It's a good thing, too, since I couldn't keep something from my wife of 34 years if I tried. Probably her principal reaction was to be dismayed and hurt that she "was not woman enough for me." We are working on that one.

My wife is the only one who knows, except for my therapist and several thousand of you here. That's the way she wants it, and I abide by that. The earlier thread had me thinking about this, and about the way in which most described the dilemma.

Constraints was a word used often. But outside of my wife's wishes, I don't feel particularly constrained about this compartmentalizing of my life. I have business associates who know nothing of my private life, and I have friends who do not know what I do for a living. All of our family are in Texas and we are in Maryland. We make small talk on the phone, but it is not that personal. There are bigger issues (finances for example) that we do not share with our children. And at 59, my creased face looks like Harrison Ford in a wig. I am never going to pass, so going out is not much of an issue. I will go in drab to Goodwill and try on women's clothes, much to the amusement of some workers and patrons. I don't begrudge them their entertainment.

Perhaps I am a more private person than most, or crossdressing is less important to me than to others, but I don't feel frustrated by the fact that no one has a complete picture of my life. I don't do this for them, I do it for me.

As for compromise, I am anticipating very soon that my wife will dictate that when our college sophomore returns home for the summer, I am to switch from panties to men's underwear so the laundry looks right. My negotiating on this point will consist of, "yes, Dear."

Liz

[Alice B]

I'm out to my wife, family and a few select friends, but not to those that strongly associate to my male persona. Ie; golf buddies, professional contacts, etc. I doubt that it will go any further. Seldom does my wife spend any time with me dressed and only once has any of my family sen me dressed and I do not see any major changes there, other than seeing my painted nails during a pool party and that my body is shaved. For the most part I am very comfortable with the ways things are and also my male side.

[zoe m]

I agree with you about the thread yesterday. Unless it got nastier after I last checked at 10pm yesterday, it still seemed like a productive, if angry, discusssion. It´s good to have an open exchange of opinions, that´s how we all grow. And every community sometimes needs someone to shake it out of complacency.

To answer your question, I am out to my partner, and I would like to be out to more people. I will probably start with my friends, not my family. I don´t worry about how it in itself will affect my family or my partner, since I think whatever emotional distress it might cause them is less than what they and i would gain by being open with each other. I do worry though about how other people might treat them because of it. So for that reason I´m trying to take it slowly and carefully. But ironically protecting myself and the people around me is also a reason to be out, because as some people have said on this forum, when you have a secret then other people can have power over you and use it against you and the people around you, if they discover it, which they could. That´s what worries me and it´s my biggest reason to want to be more out. If I were out, I probably wouldn´t dress around my family, I´d just tell them and let them and other people know it exists. I think eventually it would probably be ok for the most part. The one part I wouldn´t know what to do about would be kids. I don´t have kids and I probably would want to have them if it weren´t for this. I´m not saying I´ll never have them, and I respect the people on here who are CDs and have kids, but I do worry about imposing some stigma on children of mine, because children unlike adults are more vulnerable and don´t have their self-confidence or sense of self totally built up yet (we know that because we´ve all been kids). If you already have kids that´s fine, you make the best of it, but I wonder if I should just plan on not having kids, at least not for the time being. That´s a bit off topic but it relates to your question about who to be out to and who to protect.

[minalost]

Hmmmm. I've been too busy to keep up with all the threads and must have missed that one. Too bad. In any case, this is a very well thought out question and hits to the core of many of our relationships. Only my wife knows about my dressing. I have no intention of telliny my sons, mom, dad, or siblings. They all live too far away to make a dif and it would really upset my dad. At work? Nope, too many potential problems for the boss to be a crossdresser. Socialy? My wife says no - not much I'm going to do about that for now. So for now it's "in the closet with the door open" as I've heard it said.

[Veronica Lacey]

My SO is aware and has nominal tolerance for my dressing, knowing that I do it in private, but has no interest to be with me while dressed. She does not even wish to see what I wear or help me grow my wardrobe. As a side note I only wear the clothes, no make up, wigs, jewellery nor do I try to act more feminine. I am just a guy who likes to wear female clothing.

So would I like to be out more? Perhaps, yes, but like some others have pointed out the results may not justify the desire.

I would never tell my parents as it is just not right in the twilight of their lives. My siblings I rarely see so no point there. For certain I would keep things secret from work in any way, shape or form. Wrong place to go with this. As for friends...some would distance themselves but I sense that some would be fine with it. But...

What if I told a female friend and she was okay with it. In fact, she actually liked it and took it upon herself to help me. Maybe she would go shopping with me or invite me over to watch a movie, talk, go for a walk (although I would be shrouded from view some how.)

I worry that such a disclosure could generate an irreparable fissure between my loving wife and myself because I would have somebody in my life who supported my dressing to a larger degree.

This is hypothetical, of course, but quite plausible, and to that end I would choose to keep my dressing private to all except my wife. While she is not 100% in tune with my dressing she is the real deal and I would not wish to jeopardize that for the sake of coming out further.

[Frédérique]

So my question is: You are out at this moment in time to a certain degree. Would you like to be out even more? Who would you like to know under ideal circumstances? Who would you never ever tell? If someone told you, you would be as closeted when you died as you are today, would that make you feel sad in any way?
The compromise is the balance between being true to ourselves and adversely effecting the people we care about. Where is that balance for you?

I’ve been out a little bit, but I remain largely withdrawn from the world. I keep my special things to myself, since sharing has not brought me the desired results, i.e. pleasure and comfort, and, dare I say, love. :sad: I would like to be “out” more, but only in a limited sense – it depends on how I feel at any given time, but I want my crossdressing to be seen the same way that I feel it, and therein lies the problem. It may be too private and too special a thing to explain to anyone, no matter how much I wish to do it – I keep thinking that a sudden loss of secrecy would have nearly the same effect on me as a rapid loss of blood, i.e. draining and ultimately lethal…:eek:

I would never tell unsympathetic individuals about my crossdressing, any more than I would talk about anything sensual with them – if the person I’m talking to is not equally in touch with their senses, then they aren’t worth talking to at all (especially about this subject). That may sound cold, but I’m looking for warmth, specifically those individuals who are open to experimentation, beauty, and all of the wondrous variety in this life…

If I was as closeted on the day I die as I am right now, it wouldn’t bother me one bit – I would consider that to be a successful conclusion to my existence. Contrary to feeling sad, I would be just able to manage a final smile at the absurdity of it all, right before I drew the curtain on this “performance.” No encores, I’m afraid, but I played it according to my own plans...er, score…:)

As for “balance,” I remain true to myself, follow my conscience, and try not to let my life impinge on the freedom of choice others hold dear. In other words, I don’t wish to bother anyone…

[Tasha McIntyre]

My SO is aware and has nominal tolerance for my dressing, knowing that I do it in private, but has no interest to be with me while dressed. She does not even wish to see what I wear or help me grow my wardrobe.

So would I like to be out more? Perhaps, yes, but like some others have pointed out the results may not justify the desire.

This is hypothetical, of course, but quite plausible, and to that end I would choose to keep my dressing private to all except my wife. While she is not 100% in tune with my dressing she is the real deal and I would not wish to jeopardize that for the sake of coming out further.

That was beautifully put Veronica.......pretty much sums up my situation as I am only out to my wife and a few other CDers in my town, and that's the way it's going to stay.

My wife tolerates me going out to selected places a distance away from where we live. I'm more than happy with that.

Tash :)

[Alice Torn]

I would never tell any of my brothers, who are in prison, sister, or elderly parents! I have to move to my resentful fathers place in two weeks. He is an iron controller, and i must hide my stash well, and never dress on his property. However, i have told several friends, and one did not keep it secret, at church. I have not been to church, in 1 1/2 yrs now! I was going to meet up with an admirer, next week, but, as always ducked out! Father issues are too heavy, now. My father has believed that his kids were a burden, and we owe our lives to him, to serve him. This might be hell. I hope i never tell him, though, it wouldn't surprise me, if he put on my mom's clothes.

[eluuzion]

That topic is gone now, which is a little frustrating as I was interested in everyone's opinions.
I presume personal attacks happened in that topic when I was asleep, or that it escalated out of control, because otherwise it seems that we're too fragile of a community to tolerate disagreements, and differences of opinion. But I think if we're to grow as a community, everyone must be allowed to voice their view (as long as it's respectful) without fear of a deletion or ban.



I thought deleting the entire thread was an interesting decision as well. No explanation, no individual discipline or warnings, just delete the entire thread? Well, the owners of the sandbox rule the sand and players that play in it, which is the way it works and "it is what it is". It made me think about the amount of thought and time I will devote to either one.

I do not let such things upset me. I just adjust the effort I devote to something by what I get out of it, as we all do. Life is short, so I spend it being happy.

not complaining,, just my thoughts.:love:

[PretzelGirl]

I think the thoughts about who you are out to is a fluid thing for a lot of us. Some of it is just your own comfort level as you discover yourself.

For me, I am out to a few of my family members and a couple of friends. The family members that I am not out to could change for a couple of reasons. My son and second daughter don't know because it isn't right for their lives right now. So I choose not to interject it. The one daughter that knows agrees which does help things. Also, a lot of them are geographically separated from me. So that makes it easy to not tell without even thinking further.

Telling friends is really something that takes some thought. Unless you want to tell most everyone, then why tell any friends? A best friend possibly, but after that it becomes less likely maybe.

So I don't tell friends in general, but I have gone out a few times and want to increase that. So I accept the risk that I might run into someone I know. So by going out, I do accept that I might be "telling a friend" by running into them and being discovered. I am okay with accepting that as a risk of going out. Then the final follow-on is that if a friend runs into me, I may then have to make choices about telling someone else based on the circle of friends that me and the one friend are associated with.

So I don't think this is a simple cut and dry thing. Our actions on anything other than being deep in the closet can cause us to re-think how out we are.

[Starling]

My dear wife knew about me before we married, but as the years passed she sadly devolved from being supportive to being merely tolerant; and depending on current domestic events she can get very upset if she happens to come home unexpectedly and "catches" me. I do my best to respect her feelings, but I hate that even though the person I love the most knows, sometimes I still have to undress in a panic. Honestly, the stress can't be good for me.

So...I am seriously considering telling a few long-time friends, all women, in hopes that they might accept me fully and allow me to be myself. Two of the friends are lesbian, and all of them are generally open-minded and open-hearted. I would be very surprised if any of them rejected me.

I think I could also trust their discretion. But at my age, frankly, I'm beginning to get pretty fatalistic about being publicly outed. It's practically inevitable as I get more and more nonchalant about shopping for clothes, jewelry and makeup. I know I'm already out at the post office and Penney's, and probably at the beauty supply. For all I know, I'm out all over town. What's the worst that could happen, short of being run through with a pike?

I've already made some pretty broad hints to my lady friends, including giving one of them the Vicki D'Salle CD. So far, no bites, but they don't really have enough of the puzzle yet.

I'm going to seek gender counseling, because I want to keep it real. I understand the potential for trouble at home, but if I don't get enough Lallie time I'll be worthless as a partner, anyway. And there will be no hanky-panky; none of these ladies are ex-lovers, although we have shared a lot of other experiences. All I want to do is take Lallie out, open her up and see what she can do.

:heehee: Lallie

[Sophie_C]

Sorry if you're presuming otherwise, but I'm fully in the closet right now. I've posted that plenty of times before. I'm very much a "all or nothing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKUqj9skJ-k)" sort of girl, and I have never seen the point or doing anything partially, ever. So, of course, I'd like to be able to be truly myself, but that isn't happening, at least for the moment.

If it comes to the point that I feel that I am comfortable losing:

A. My friends
B. My family
C. My career
D. Most any money I have ever earned
E. Any potential for a semi-heteronormative life

Then, maybe I'll do it. But, for now, to paraphrase the movie "La Mujer de mi Hermano", i'm going to keep it "in the closet with 10 locks."

;)

Mind you, I am single and committing no relationship lies, likewise. The prior thread was very interesting and it is unfortunate it was deleted. I do not care to rehash everything I posted, but it's worth saying that Jade had some substantial points that made me rethink this entire angle I have. Is the way I'm living the right way? Would I actually find better people who understand me more if I was out and true to myself? Are the people I see as my "friends" truly my friends? Am I living a shell of a life because of being closeted? Will the truth set me free, or destroy me completely? None of these have an answer yet...

[Briana_1961]

It was quite interesting reading all of the different takes on the whole 'outing' idea. In a perfect world, I would have said something in a heartbeat, but my world is so not normal that it makes Woody Allen look like Norman Rockwell :brolleyes:

I know that if I came out to my wife, things would devolve rapidly due to other situations we are currently dealing with. It would serve me so much better to be able to share this with someone, but since it is so new to me, I have to sort things out myself before involving anyone else.

Then to add to all this, I'm a hirsute male, which shatters the illusion for me every time (if only I could find a way to hide the chest and arm hair). Even I have a hard time accepting these feelings sometimes when I see myself in the mirror, so I don't know how I can expect others to accept them.

But with time, and help (from here, cause help seems to be abounding) I should be able to make sense of, and peace with, this whole new world opening up to me.

Thanks for listening to my :2c:

[VictoriaP]

Well I guess that I missed all the threads having spent the weekend with the grandkids and not online at all. Some of you that know me know that I came out to my SO after many years of small steps such as wearing panties, dressing up at Halloween, etc. When I came out to her I was so hopeful that it was only the first step. For almost 2 years it seemed that I had made the right choice........all that changed in the space of a few months. I ended up back in the closet and she seems happier that way; I am not. But i did decide to follow eluuzion's philosophy, or at least my version of it, and I work at it each day, being happy with what I have that is.
I so wish there was an easy answer to all this, but alas, nothing it seems it easy in our world of CD/TG/TS. Suffice it to say that whatever works for each one of us, is hopefully the best solution, for each of us, if not the ideal. I so want all of us to be happy, and accepted and out!, maybe someday it will be that way.
Vicky

[JamieG]

Interesting thread! The first person I came out to was my wife. Last year I came out to the head of the LGBT organization at work. A few months ago my wife (with my permission) told her sister. There are some friends of ours that have seen me at drag one Halloween, and who know my wife and I performed in a drag show together a few months ago. I think they might suspect something. I might choose to come out to them at some point down the line. I think I'd eventually like my children to know so I don't have to keep a secret from them, but at the same time I do not want to subject them to relentless teasing at school. If I knew it wouldn't cause my mom to worry, I think I'd like her to know. I'd like to share with my brother, but haven't found the right opening, and don't know how he would take it. In a perfect world, I'd simply be me and wear what I want when I felt like it. However, the reality is that to that such a choice could have a serious impact on those I love and care about.

[mklinden2010]

My SO and I have discussed this recently and neither of us could think of anything to be gained by being more involved in our local CD/TS/TG/Bi/LG community, much less with our families, friends, etc. People just don't care that much about "being in our business" and we've pretty much stopped considering what they think to be all that important to our daily lives. So, not much to talk about.

Meanwhile, we live in a big town and there are all sorts of bars, community events, and even "out" festivals that we could attend. Problem is, the younger crowd - ignorant of how the world used to be and why it changed - is back to public drunkenness/public sex acts and, frankly, that's pretty disgusting. All that effort so you could get drunk on Sundays and make out on the public sidewalk? (Our view in the neighborhood yesterday.)

And, no, I really can't think of any one new I'd like to tell and the folks I'd never tell could find out and I wouldn't care all that much.

As for the "still in the closet and dead" question I'm pretty sure it really doesn't matter how I think I'd feel; I'd just be dead. But, if there's crossdressing in some sort of after life, I hope it's not a big deal there anymore either - and that everyone behaves better.

"Is there death after life?"

"Seems unlikely, don't you think? What would be the point of coming up with something so amazing if it just falls apart every time? Death after life? No, I don't think so."

[Kaz]

I was following the previous thread, went to bed, woke up... all gone! Sort of like memory erasure...! So I'm glad you brought this back Engendered, as it is so much at the heart of us.

My responsibilities, my relationships... all contributors to this thread so far know how it is... I am not going to mess with those lightly. There is a lot at stake... not for me, but for others. I have experience of making mistakes that have damaged others, especially loved ones. I take these things seriously.

You have all said things I empathise with... and for those of us who are "older", we remember less tolerant days and the way tides can turn - either way. We also know that those who also grew through those days may not have grown "with us". Life is complex.

So here's to sincerity and understanding, nurturing and developing, tolerance and respect...

At my age, I am desperately trying to make the most of getting out and "maybe" passing... the way my face is changing in the mirror, it won't be much longer!

But for the last few years, and especially with the help of this forum, I have really started to get my head around who I am, and I am starting to feel a sense of "integration". If I had to live without dressing from now on would it be different from how I felt two years ago. Yes! I could cope...

I am who I am... and I kinda like it... and I have no desire to inflict it on people who don't want to accept it. And that goes for every other aspect of who I am.

Does this make me "weak"?

Weakness to me is not being tolerant, respectful and appreciative of others' needs, but being so self-centred that no-one else matters. This is so easy! And tragically so Alpha Male!

So... my wife "knows" but doesn't want to know (well at least "see" it)... one of my daughters (22) knows something, but has accepted what she thinks she knows...

And we are good! The family is relatively stable (as families go!) and we can deal with all the issues as they arise (aged and dying parents, pregnant daughters, crazy boyfriends, student loans, loss of work, fighting the credit crunch, etc...)...

And I want to screw with this because I want to express my femininity through girls' clothes?

I don't think so!

Love Kaz xx

[kimdl93]

let's see...I'm fully "out" only at home with my SO and sister, but not with other members of our family. I don't know where I'd put myself on the continuum... Beyond that, I know that my ex shared my little secret with a lot of mutual acquaintances, friends and family members. But she did it in such a mean way that everyone seems to have disregarded it. I don't know that I'd change my "outness" signficantly, but I do think I'd enjoy being able to go out occassionally in public with my SO.

[Angiemead12]

Im out to family, friends and of course my SO, Im 30 now and Im glad I did it early, I wouldnt know how would I cope to hold it in any longer.

Whats changed? Nothing, no rejections but only a few of them want to see angie again. a few dont care at all what I do!

[olga]

[…] So my question is: You are out at this moment in time to a certain degree. Would you like to be out even more? Who would you like to know under ideal circumstances? Who would you never ever tell? If someone told you, you would be as closeted when you died as you are today, would that make you feel sad in any way?

[…]

The compromise is the balance between being true to ourselves and adversely effecting the people we care about. Where is that balance for you?

Since my divorce three years ago, I have been practically living in the closet, trying to figure it all out. I don’t have any close friends — pretty much all of the mutual friends from my marriage parted ways with me — and my family lives far away in Europe. Up until a few weeks ago I was unsure about why I have the desire to crossdress. It would go too far to explain here what changed, but as things stand now, I cannot put the ghost back into the bottle. I will be transitioning.

So I have to make a decision who I will open up to. I have the advantage of working in a small office of open-minded people, so there will hopefully be acceptance, perhaps even support. My parents will not be happy to hear about it, but even at their older age, I cannot hide it from them any longer. I have to be selfish, I can’t live with the secrets and lies anymore. Too much energy spent. They already know a little bit — nail polish revealed while video chatting, oops!

I will not want my 90 year old grandma to know. This would probably be too much for her. But then, what do I do one or two years from now, if she’s still with us, and I come for a visit?

Then there’s my sister (47) and my niece (25), both of them will hopefully have no problem with it.

The only person in my life who knows the whole story is my therapist.

Bottom line is: I’m scared. I hope I will not hurt anyone, or be hurt myself. That’s perhaps too much to ask, but at the end of the day, it’s MY life, I didn’t ask for this, but I have to deal with it. I know, I’m selfish. And I’m sorry…

olga