Do most crossdressers hate themselves?

[Raquel June]

I don't get to this section very often, but I was browsing around and clicked on this thread:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132426

And I was struck by the part, "She hugged me and said this is a part of who you are and just be comfortable with who you are." This is the kind of advice I see now and then, and everybody seems to agree with it but doesn't really seriously think about it.

Look at the average crossdresser. In the closet. Often married. Often hiding it from the wife, or at least on sort of a "don't ask don't tell" policy.

Face it. Most crossdressers hate themselves. They are ashamed of being a crossdresser. They try to hide it. I've seen a million posts about someone who gets married to a nice girl, trying to suppress their crossdressing instead of deal with it. A few years later they get caught. How is the wife supposed to react? This is a habit you're ashamed of. It's your dirty little secret. You wish you could stop. You expect other people to embrace your crossdressing when you yourself are obviously disgusted by it?

I was in a support group which encompassed both trans and CD people, and we wanted to volunteer in the community. We had trouble because we were basically seen as perverts so people didn't want us to be publicly associated with them, and they definitely didn't want to let us around kids. This is a horrible and mostly* unfounded stereotype about people with gender issues, but we need to look at ourselves. If we think of ourselves as deviants and are ashamed and hate ourselves and essentially have the same degree of disdain for crossdressing as we do pedophilia, then how do we expect others to treat us any better than pedophiles?

Crossdressers get busted by their wives and it turns into a major issue in their marriage, and they blame their wife for not understanding them. Give me a break. You don't understand yourself. You don't respect yourself. Your only outlet is talking on this forum and waiting for your wife to be out of the house so you can keep your shameful secret to yourself. How exactly do you expect to be treated any better than a total freak?

I know there are a lot of crossdressers who get out now and then and have fun and have a good family life, but then there are the deep-in-the-closet ones...

I mean, I'm on estrogen. I pretty much live as a not-quite-passable woman. But I used to think of myself as a crossdresser. It's a little taboo to talk about how blurred the line can be between CD and TS, but honestly I think a lot of crossdressers are transgendered girls without the self-respect to be themselves when anybody's watching except maybe a very small and very safe circle of friends.

It's hard to be comfortable with yourself. I spent so many years telling myself, "I know all I need is confidence." Well, that's pretty damn hard when all you want to be is a pretty girl just like any other girl wants, and yeah, nobody's as pretty as they want to be, but you're staring in the mirror at a 6-foot-tall hairy person with a penis and a receding hairline. Ouch! I went through a period of being suicidal and I was still afraid to be myself most of the time. That's ridiculous! I didn't care whether I lived or died but I was still too afraid of what people thought of me to leave the house most of the time. When I would go out and people would react negatively to me, it was never a big deal. I was still always glad I was trying to be myself. But the next day I would still want to lock myself inside even though I didn't even know what I was afraid of (since people who were mean to me didn't really bother me that much). So I know it's horribly difficult to be confident, and it can take years. But it's important if you're ever going to be happy. If you're ever going to understand yourself. If you're ever going to be comfortable.

I guess I would say I'm still kinda transitioning. I'm currently in a pretty great lesbian relationship. Is it because I was up-front with her about these issues? More than that, it's because she already knew about me through mutual friends, and the first time she saw me I was wearing eyeshadow in public. I'm not bragging. I've had tons of horrible relationships and the only person I can blame for that is myself. But this relationship works because she knows the real me and she's totally attracted to the real me.

I guess my point is that I see a lot of complaining around here. I see complaining about GGs not understanding. I see complaining about society not understanding. That's not the problem. The problem is with your attitude towards yourself. There's something to the cliche, you have to love yourself before other people can love you. The world has plenty a-holes in it, sure, but it's not that bad. I live in the John McCain state and am surrounded by cranky old Republicans and Mexican machismo, and I really don't get hassled much except by the kind of obnoxious people who are going to try to make anybody miserable whether or not it's a guy in a dress.

I'm not saying every crossdresser is an unenlightened transwoman longing to get estrogen injected in her ass. I'm just saying be true to yourself. Be confident. Think of what could bring you true happiness and be that person. You'll lose some family. You'll lose some friends. But guess what? One day you'll look back and say, "OMG, why did I care about those jerks?"

Don't live your life with excuses. Don't tell yourself you can't be yourself because of other people. I see all the time people making themselves miserable for the sake of relationships that are probably doomed to begin with. And I'll bet a lot of these people are in relationships that would make them miserable and fall apart even if there weren't any gender issues involved. Everybody has issues with their parents expectations, and often feels like they're living their life to satisfy others, even non-crossdressers! And if anybody wants to be happy they have to say screw everybody else's expectations, I'm going to be me.

I'll go disappear again for another few months :)


* I say mostly because I've met a lot of crossdressers in bars who are married men who like to sneak out and crossdress to cheat on their wives with men. People pretend this doesn't exist, but I've seen about 100 instances of it in the past four years. These people degrade women, degrade crossdressers, and if anybody's a pervert they are. I know that for every one of them there are problably 500 crossdressers who stay home and keep it to themselves instead of going out and trying to hook up, but there is definitely some foundation for the negative stereotype for crossdressers.

[Rianna Humble]

I can't quantify it to say whether "most" cross-dressers hate themselves, but I believe that we all go through self-doubt and possibly self-hate at some stage in our development as CD's.

There are enough negative influences out there to drive many of us into the closet. For myself, when I was younger I fell prey to propaganda that made me feel that there was something shameful about my need to dress contrary to my physical gender. In consequence I fought it for far too long.

I can't join you in condemning those who were afraid to tell their life partners at the outset and who now find it difficult to come out of the closet. The tales of marriage break-ups and the like are numerous enough to make even the most courageous blanch.

Faced with all of those condemnatory influences and the fact that the gutter press in nearly all countries likes to portray us as sub-human momsters, can you wonder that the most difficult thing for many cross-dressers is to accept themselves?

You are right to a certain extent when you say that society won't accept us if we don't accept ourselves, but unfortunately you are overlooking all those of us (myself included now) who have learned to accept ourselves and who are striving to present an acceptable image to society. It is not those of us who lack enough confidence to peek out of the closet door who are hindering society from accepting us, it is sheer bigotry by large groups of self-righteous cisgendered people.

I'm glad that you are doing relatively well despite the area where you live, but let's not forget those who stepped out of the door and got beaten to death for the privilege.

Whether someone on these forums is "just a cross-dresser" as one thread put it, on the way to transition, or somewhere else on the gender continuum, we all need to feel that we can live without fear. What we don't need is the condemnation of one of our own pushing people further into the closet.

[Raquel June]

There are enough negative influences out there to drive many of us into the closet. For myself, when I was younger I fell prey to propaganda that made me feel that there was something shameful about my need to dress contrary to my physical gender. In consequence I fought it for far too long.

I can't join you in condemning those who were afraid to tell their life partners at the outset and who now find it difficult to come out of the closet. The tales of marriage break-ups and the like are numerous enough to make even the most courageous blanch.

Faced with all of those condemnatory influences and the fact that the gutter press in nearly all countries likes to portray us as sub-human momsters, can you wonder that the most difficult thing for many cross-dressers is to accept themselves?

I'm not condemning everybody, but now that you mention it... What are the reasons someone would fail to mention this to their partner?

1) They're ashamed, they hope this is something they can suppress
2) They're just dishonest and want to keep secrets from their partner

The excuses you listed might sound good good, but let's compare it to something obvious. What if you're a black man and you only date blind women because you don't want to tell them you're black. You're ashamed of being black, and you tell the blind women that you're white.

Is it OK to lie because there are negative stereotypes about black people? Is it OK to lie because some people wouldn't want to date a black person? Obviously not. You need to get over the self-loathing and accept yourself.

If this was common practice, obviously blind women would dump guys who lied about their race most of the time. Because blind women are mean? Because they don't sympathize? No, because they've been lied to.

This is a ridiculous example, but my point is I think your arguments are invalid either way. Certainly black people could say there has historically been "gutter press in nearly all countries likes to portray us as sub-human monsters".



I'm not saying confidence fixes everything. And I think you missed my overall tone -- I absolutely am not being condescending. I'm a pretty big wimp in many ways, and I've had the support some really good friends and more recently a wonderful partner, yet still my biggest obstacle has been developing the confidence to be myself in the world.

Living in fear sucks. Whether it's fear of people finding out about your crossdressing, or a transsexual's fear of transition and how society will respond. Especially if you're trying to be out of the closet, people sense fear and attack it.




I'm glad that you are doing relatively well despite the area where you live, but let's not forget those who stepped out of the door and got beaten to death for the privilege.

Certainly. I don't think I would've made it if I was born a few years earlier.




Whether someone on these forums is "just a cross-dresser" as one thread put it, on the way to transition, or somewhere else on the gender continuum, we all need to feel that we can live without fear. What we don't need is the condemnation of one of our own pushing people further into the closet.

When people say "just a cross-dresser" in that context, they mean a true crossdresser who has a lot degree of actual transgender feelings, so I hope ya don't take offense.

[mklinden2010]

I wouldn't say that most crossdressers hate themselves.

But, I would say most are pretty dumb about what they are actually doing - and that leads to them and everyone around them eventually and endlessly hating the entire situation.

Crossdressing usually just doesn't work very well as a life - for a number of reasons. These are just a few:

In terms of just "the look," for example, most men lack female bumps and curves and they're larger, on average (mostly taller) than most women. And, they lack the same hair, skin, bone structure, etc. of most girls and women. Same with the voice, the hands, and the basic plumbing... No amount of cloth and paint is going to change their basic look and presentation.

In terms of bearing and attitude, most crossdressers have never been girls, so they have a difficult time presenting as women - even large women. And, most (in my experience) don't even think to practice before they go out in public. And, when they do go out in public, they're dashing out to a support meeting or gay club which isn't anything like "real" life for anyone.

In terms of politics and causes, most crossdressers are either ignorant about the ocean of information they are swimming in and/or fail to apply themselves to fitting in with life. They'll talk sports, tell old jokes, over-play the "femme" voice and behaviors and wind up offending people - as a minor annoyance to others - by being neither fish nor foul in terms of who they might be to relate to... And, it's clear to people around them that, "This soul is a bit confused..." Tolerance is not the same as acceptance.

I am a crossdresser. I am a better crossdresser than I used to be. I was fortunate, I think, in that the women I was involved with insisted that I not look foolish when I dressed, that I support women's issues, and, that I be the same person all the time - no highs and lows because I was dressed/not dressed. Having respect for women/the underdog/everyone, knowing the politics of work, pay, civil rights, weak vs. strong... All that made me a better person - who cares about the clothes? Women, "real" women, wear skirts and dresses and so forth, but they'd be who they are without skirts and dresses.

I got over being ashamed, confused, angry, disgusted, scared, and so forth when I got past the play acting and the erotism of crossdressing and realized that trying on different roles and clothes was actually crosstraining to be a better person, a better human being. My SOs fight for my presence. I don't mean they compete for my time and attention, I mean they value it so much they "cleave" to me as a valuable person. I can dress as I like and do what I want - but it's because I am open with what I am doing and why I am doing it and they nod and say, "That sounds like a great idea. You're a good person doing good things and I can support that."

It's not what's on your back or hanging from your hips that matters - no matter who you are.

It's what's in your head.

No, not your heart, your head.

The heart beats so that the head can do it's thinking.

Think and the world will think with you.

[Kate Simmons]

If anything CD's hate the fact that they don't understand their feelings. Most have been brought up to believe men have to act a certain way. When we get in touch with our feelings we discover that is just so much hogwash but that is where a lot of the conflicts begin as we assume we cannot have the softer feelings. It takes time to become comfortable with ourselves in that respect. Sometimes we have to literally live out the role to integrate the feelings. Once they are accepted though, they can be integrated into our overall self. Then we become empowered to become whoever we want to be. So I wouldn't say we necessarily hate ourselves, just the fact that we do fully not understand why we have these feelings and we are sometimes hard pressed to express them:).

[DonniDarkness]

Raquel, for the most part you are right and i agree with 90% of your post. The whole 'cowgirl up" attitude is inspiring to say the least. Some of us are just plain happy not having to deal with coming out of the closet to the world.

to your question: Do most crossdressers hate themselves?

I went thru a period of serious self-loathing....about a 3yrs ago i purged all of it on the grounds that i was "sick" and needed help. I was having identity issues as a man and felt that it was my crossdressing that was fueling my inadequacies. Before i purged i did my own research, trying with all i had to come to some kind of a conclusion as to why i am like i am. The internet proved to be of no help really at the time, because all i could find when trying to research transgendered people it always led me to porn or those "chat" sites. Finally it left me with this gross feeling that i was a perverted deviant and that crossdressing was putting me on the path of the downward spiral......in the end i purged....i had no one to talk to, (at the time my wife knew about my dressing, but i was so full of self-loathing i was ashamed to ask her for help).........

Three years later.....i was seriously unhappy, had no outlet for stress, romance was dwindling and my unhappiness was being read by those i love. My wife asked me one day when we were argueing "Why are you always so effing unhappy, Don?"....i didnt have an answer....i felt numb...the only answer i gave at the time was tears welling up in my eyes and at that point i was nearing complete emotional break down. She assumed that it was her i was unhappy with. (which was resolved long ago) But in the end it was my denial and self-hate that brought me to this place in life where i was just a shell of a person, bi-gendered or not. Eventually i forced myself to accept that even if i was a deviant, i needed to accept it, because it was emotionally killing me to be ashamed of myself for something i really didnt want to share with anyone but my wife.

My point tho Raquel June, as we grow up in society we are taught to be the same as everyone else, we grow up, we realize that we are different and a lifetime of repetitive "normalcy" pressures us into being ashamed of who we are.
These pressures are what fuels the self-hate and self loathing, but without working thru these emotions, we would never have accepted ourselves for who we are. In retrospect they are actually what drives most to "come out of the closet" to the extent where they feel comfortable.

So do i hate myself now......yes and no.....yes, because i am pissed i have put myself thru needless shame over 15 years of dressing in the closet..........no, because i have accpeted who i am and i am putting tremendous effort into being more courageous towards my goals and femininity.

-Donni-

[Katesback]

In a more diplomatic set of words I pretty much agree with the original post. I wound not say that CDs hate themselves but I would say that a lot see being a CD as a negative thing. I am shocked at how those that are in this catagory will typicall blame everyone else and the big bad world for thier own issues!

I marvel at how so many totally ignore the fact that sooo many people have come before those that are in the closet and came out and succeeded in whatever dreams they had. Be it TS or remaining CD or whatever.

I marvel that girls like Jennifer and PHilis who are on this very site are totally out in the public and with some encouragement from me have realized that the BIG BAD World is really not what they thought it to be.

I marvel at the excuses.... that they use to justify the extreme uniqueness of thier relationship!

What really breaks my heart though is that sooo many NEVER live up to thier potential. I have to remind myself that being trans is no different than human nature. There are those that do and those that dont.

You have to ask yourself what faction you fit into!!!!

Katie

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I beleive the point is well taken...there is alot of self loathing, shame etc in our community..

but i also believe that you are being too harsh on folks...we are taught from our first moment that being feminine and girly is not just wrong but is bottom of the barrel wrong...growing up is hard enough, but when your entire youth is spent being shamed for what you are, then getting out of that rut is a lifelong endeavor,

my approach is that I won't judge anyone that is struggling with it

[Tora]

Hate, NO. The challenge of this activity, is added stress. Todays world offers enough natural stress, without looking for more. When I met my bride, almost 40 years ago, this topic of crossdressing, was deep in the closet. I thought marrage was the cure. My wife, as most people, was not prepared to deal with the topic when it came up. We are dealing with it. Crossdressing is not even the most stressful item, anymore.

[sometimes_miss]

I think you're mistaking 'hating ourselves' with 'hating how the rest of the world thinks about us'. I may not be thrilled about being a crossdresser; after all, it's made my life very difficult as far as finding a romantic partner is concerned. But I certainly don't hate myself over it. Would I 'choose' to be a crossdresser in my next life? No. I don't think anyone would choose anything that would make life more difficult than it already is, or choose anything that would limit our choices in other ways either. Financially, who in their right mind would choose something that requires spending vast amounts of money on two wardrobes? It simply doesn't make any sense.

So, no, I don't think most crossdressers hate themselves, any more than the rest of the population does. Some do, some don't.

[TGMarla]

It's an interesting post, with a lot of good points and some real harsh truths. But "hate" is a very strong word. I don't think most CDs hate themselves. I think there is a certain amount of self-loathing that goes on, and certainly some regret with the lot in life that has been handed them, but still, "hate" comes across as too strong.

I don't think that the primary reason that CDs hide this from SOs and other people is due to self-hate. I think it's just easier to keep it to themselves, that's all. It's a couse of least resistance. Not everyone is a militant revolutionary about their transgender nature. Many prefer to keep such things private. And fear of the unknown is always there as well. This does not equate to self-hate.

I can personally relate to much of what is in the original post. In fact, I'll wager that much of what is posted there hits a nerve with a whole lot of our population. But the blanket statements therein do not cover everybody adequately. We're all different, and have different motives and goals.

As for me, I made peace with my crossdressing by making the choice to keep the life I have made with my wife, and therefore keeping the CDing to myself. This does not mean that I hate myself. Rather, it helps bring me some peace of mind over it all. It does not make the desire for womanhood go away, but it does keep it within a certain reality check for me. And I'm willing to live with that.

[Sweeterica]

Do we hate ourselves? I dont see that most of us do,if we enjoy the transformation to our girly world how can we hate ourselves. I agree we may hate how people react to what we do,why people do react so terribly has always baffled me,its not as if we harm people is it.
Some of us may feel frustrated with loved ones that dont fully accept what we do,keeping things in the closet as a lot of us do can be both exciting and frustrating.
Hate ourselves well for me its a big NO.

[DonnaT]

Without any statistics, most is only a guess.

I, for one, never hated being a CD/trans.

There are a bunch of reasons we don't come out to our SOs, besides hate or embarrassment.

When my SO and I were dating, CDing was the furthest thing from my mind. During the first year of our marriage, since I had access to the clothes, it became an issue once again, and I came out to her. No deceptive intent, etc.

[gemsay32]

Why can't cross-dressing be a fetish? Why does it have to mean so and so is somehow transgendered and should be a women? I'm happy to admit here I'm a pervert and have used womens clothes in private for pleasure. When I was a teenager, I used to masturbate in private. I didn't want anyone to know. It's stupid to suggest to me that something I do in private for pleasure is something I should do in the open. That's like telling a teenager that when they masturbate they should open their door, proudly enter the living room where their parents are, and masturbate in full view so that they can accept who they're as a person and not hide anything. Umm, some things SHOULD be hidden!

Anyway, I think society is just afraid of cross-dressing. When people are afraid of something it's usually because they don't understand it. They automatically assume you're somehow related to pedophilles or serial killers. That's a natural instinct, and if you think about it, makes a lot of sense. In the wild, if an animal hears a branch break, they freeze. That's because they don't know what broke the branch. Maybe it's a predator? The goal of society is not to vanquish fear so we no longer feel it, but to understand and manage things so we don't fear them. So the goal is to get rid of darkness and bring in the light, but only to a point. That's why couples don't have wild sex in public - in fact, it's against the law. We all know what sex is, but we have enough self-respect to know that it doesn't belong in public or at the workplace.

And just in case you're wondering, I have a religious background. So any kind of sexual thought used to make me feel guilty because the bible is relentless about it. In fact, even getting turned on by a girl you see is a sin in the bible. Similarly, some homosexuals feel shame because they're religious and feel that homosexuality is their fault. Many christians feel homosexuality is a choice, and brings shame to you. Additionally, when a christian of this sort sees someone who doesn't feel shame, they're appalled. To them that's proof that the devil, the most evil thing in the bible, has blinded the individual. When it gets to that point, they'll go out of their way to protect their children from accepting homosexuals so that their children do not become blinded too. So it's not just society that brings shame to people.

A lot of it is just about what people think. If they view the behavior negatively because of what they've learned in life, it's not as simple as flipping a light switch to reverse how they think. For example, some men might view cross-dressing as a weakness. This world is still a very man dominated world. Even though the developed countries have worked hard to get women involved, it's still very man dominated, particularly in government, military, executive roles - what matters! So a man like this that has the inclination to cross-dress doesn't want his wife to know because he wants his wife to think he's strong and man-like. To change this, you have to convince him that cross-dressing is not a sign of weakness. You also might have to convince his wife that cross-dressing is ok if she doesn't like it. For example, she might find the whole thing unattractive and discouraging. It might be impossible to change it. So the guy might have to restrict himself.

I once heard someone say, "If I change what you know, I change what you do." Thoughtful!

[docrobbysherry]

When I say "I'm simply a CD", I mean I'm NOT TG! Or, don't feel like one, anyway. Otherwise, why say that at all?:brolleyes:

R u going to argue with me about being a perv? Go ahead! It won't do any good! Because I FEEL LIKE ONE!:sad:
The day I DON'T feel like one, is the day I'll feel GOOD about my dressing!:straightface:

I don't think coming out of the CLOSET has as much to do with CONFIDENCE, as it has to do with SACRIFICE!:eek:

Like many others here, if I came out, here's what I stand to lose, or damage:

Many, (most?), of my friends. Of course some would stay in touch. But, as they're family folks, I'd become an "embarrasment" to them!

Some of my family, ( See above).

My business. Which I've worked at for 30+ years.

My children. I can't predict ALL the effects on them, or how they'd feel about me if I came out. But, I can't think of ANY POSITIVE results for them.

All this, just so I can walk around in womens clothes in public? And, MAYBE feel good about myself someday? No, I DON'T THINK SO!:thumbsdn:

Raquel, I have the utmost respect for those like u, that learn to LIKE their CD/TG side. And, that r willing to turn their ENTIRE worlds UPSIDE DOWN, so that they can dress in public.
But, if u CAN'T understand why so many of us choose NOT to take that path, you're in DENIAL!
U can call me a coward, a hypocrite, a cheater, or a million OTHER invectives! None will be as bad as the ones I call MYSELF!:Angry3:

Personally, I don't HATE myself, but I can't imagine EVER being PROUD of my dressing! The best I can hope for is, to rid myself of the "pervert" title!:doh:

[pj]

Most crossdressers hate themselves. They are ashamed of being a crossdresser.Hate and shame are two very different things.

Shame is created by forces outside yourself. It doesn't necessarily or inevitably lead to self-hate.

I've only been here for a short time, but I have noticed an interesting (and common) tendency among many people to think that what applies to them applies to everyone. I suppose that is human nature. And it is probably amplified here simply because this is a special interest group with a common unifying issue.

Saying "crossdressers hate themselves" is like saying, "crossdressers drink chocolate milk," or "crossdressers play with model trains." It's not true, nothing applies to everyone. If you hate yourself, that's a shame (get it? Har har). But don't assume that I hate myself. I know I'm awesome.

I'm just waiting patiently for everyone else to acknowledge it. ;)

[Katesback]

I think that there is a point that some are overlooking. The main post talks about those that are unhappy, that complain and wine about thier situation. Thouse that go on and on about all the negative things in thier lives.

I believe that the author is not focusing her attention on those of you that are totally happy with the situation you are in.

I myself have always taken the stance to accept people for who they are. If they are happy then great. If they are trying to reach thier potential then I sometimes will help by encouraging them.

If they are contend to wallow in sorrow and DO NOTHING, then I give up and move on to those that might be willing to help themselves.

Katie

[KarenCDFL]

I can't say the most cross dressers hate themselves.

I have been a CD all my life and though I am not "out" to the world at large, I never hid it from SO's I have been involved with. I have never hated myself.

I told my wife over a year before we married and that was 16 years ago. My wife has said to me that she could never imagine not being married to a cross dresser because life would be not only too straight and boring but she always knows where my stash of spare unopened BOGO mascara's are!

If cross dressers "hate" anything, I would think that hatred is pointed towards the people that will not accept them to be who they want to be without fear, hatred and disdain.

But then again the people who tent to hate things, seem to hate everything.

[carolinoakland]

Oh come one, tell us how you REALLY feel...( <grin>I love you Raquel! if you can't say what you want it's not an open forum, so don't stop!) I have been seeing a rise in the postings about this topic. And I think that you get into trouble when you start saying "most'' or '' all '' Remember... " All poodles are dogs. But not all dogs are poodles".

I was at a point in my life that the shame and unhappiness gave me two choices...
Either I was a conflicted CD struggling with self acceptance.

Or...

A TS?

I had to resolve this... and well... voila! I"m a happy woman living her life everyday. I have had more life and happiness than in decades. I have laughed longer and harder in the last year or so than I can remember. And my relationships with people have become so much more and the new ones are deeper.

Isn't it grand that I figured it out?

But for some they aren't at the place where they can accept who they are, yet.

As for the complaining... I'd rather listen to a million complaining one's than hear that one of us gave up and took their own life because WE turned our backs on someone for not " getting over it and moving on ". We shouldn't berate them for their ambivilance or confusion. They are our sisters and brothers, and you love and help family...

Don't YOU?

[gemsay32]

I think you're mistaking 'hating ourselves' with 'hating how the rest of the world thinks about us'. I may not be thrilled about being a crossdresser; after all, it's made my life very difficult as far as finding a romantic partner is concerned. But I certainly don't hate myself over it. Would I 'choose' to be a crossdresser in my next life? No. I don't think anyone would choose anything that would make life more difficult than it already is, or choose anything that would limit our choices in other ways either. Financially, who in their right mind would choose something that requires spending vast amounts of money on two wardrobes? It simply doesn't make any sense.

So, no, I don't think most crossdressers hate themselves, any more than the rest of the population does. Some do, some don't.

Exactly! There's a difference between hating society for how it views you and actually believing society and therefore hating yourself! In the former, it's like giving up (society is too big!) and just being left with anger and blame. The latter is just an example of being misled into believing what society says. The truly courageous see how society views them, sees the error, and work to change it and accept themselves in the process. To be honest, I find it hard to blame anyone. People go through a lot in life, and it's not wise to judge them unless you've lived in their shoes.

When I say "society", that could also mean religion or idealogy or personal opinion based on experience or etc. The point is, something is telling you what to think or do, and you must determine whether it's in error, and if in error, you must stand up strong to counter it, overcome it, and accept yourself. Not everyone will stand up strong, and many others will not notice the error in the first place in what society/religion/etc is telling them to think or do. And like MissDonni said in his/her post, sometimes it takes a while to "stand up strong, counter it, overcome it,..." It's not like flipping a light switch.

[suzy1]

If someone is doing something or living a lifestyle that hurts others, it’s wrong. For example, paedophilia, or serial killer. If someone is doing something that hurts nobody, then why feel guilty? We are doing nothing wrong. The guilt or self hate that some feel over C.D.ing is a result of this ill informed and prejudice riddled world.
I have never felt any self hate or guilt. If the majority of crossdressers have or are hating themselves I would be shocked and saddened.
Tell me that’s not true.
I know it’s not quite as simple as that but I think it’s a valid point.
I just enjoy myself as Suzy.

[suchacutie]

In this thread Sometimes Miss pointed out that if we could choose to be CD in the next life it might be better to choose NOT to be trans. After thinking about this for a while I must admit that I WOULD choose to be trans and would hope that I could start earlier than 55 this time!

Why? I was brought up in full guy mode and girly things were strongly discouraged, even though it seems I tried at times without understanding what was happening (playing with dolls, etc). So, here I am married for decades and suddenly my wife and I literally stumble across what we now call Tina inside of me. What are the consequences? For one, conversations that the two of us would never have had about every possible topic involving gender, femininity vs. masculinity, views of existence from the gender perspective, the issues of growing up as a boy or a girl, knowledge one gender has and the other doesn't (and wow are misconceptions out there in huge numbers) and on and on. Bottom line, we are open to each other in ways I could not have imagined, and every time Tina visits a new set of conversations appear! Yes, we do talk about the usual topics of makeup and all the trimmings, and those are great too (as they were last night).

So, would I choose to be trangendered? You Bet! And the future? After all, sex education in schools was controversial and fought over for a generation, so why not gender education? After all, isn't education really the answer?

tina

[Jessy]

Well the thing with me is that I have a huge fear of being unaccepted. I don't have a lot of friends left, and actually my family are the only people that have always been there for me through good and bad times. But I do need people, I do need social contacts very badly.

Now let's analyze that fear a bit. I have no clue who will be accepting and who won't. Fact is, I have only ONE shot at this.
If I build something and I mess up, all I loose is some time, some materials, and some breath on a couple of bad words, then I just start anew. If coming out as a crossdresser ends up badly, there's NO WAY back. And to be honest, although I wanna come out very badly, I have more to loose than I'm willing to risk.

In my area (Europe) crossdressers don't even seem to exist. Yes they do exist, but all very closeted. There aren't even support groups. Some people tried, but stopped because no people showed up. So I'm basically all alone in this part (except for online contacts), in a society that's for most parts unaccepting. Crossdressing is a taboo here. But many people don't even know it, except for the perverts being shown on TV stealing woman's underwear from backyards. And possibly some celebrity drag queens.
As for work, that's a real danger. Guys wearing long hair or earrings aren't even accepted.

I've heard a couple of times already that coming out would open doors, and I'd love to believe that. But I'm afraid to do it. Do I really wanna put everyone and everything I have now at risk for that...?

Oh and I don't have a SO. Never ever had any luck with that. So I really doubt if I ever do find one, I'd be willing to risk loosing her because of this...

[Vickie_CDTV]

If I remember right, there were chapters of FPE thoughout Europe back 20-30 years ago. Are they still around or have they folded?

[JulieK1980]

This doesn't overly relate to me, as I don't hide it from my wife, but I definitely don't hate myself. I'm rather happy being who I am. I also feel crossdressing has helped me to be a better person as well. I can relate better to people that are "different" and I'm much less likely to judge them for it.

I hate the 30 pounds I put on, but that's about it.... lol!

[Toni_Lynn]

Now that I am 52 years old, I am able to look back over my life as a wide arc that has seen changes in the way I've accepted myself.

As a teen I was so happy when I started dressing. I had found myself, and those summer days were as wonderful as the feel of the summer sun om my face. Just the thought of how it felt reaching up and feeling the strap of my first bra fills me with a reminder of that warmth.

And then as it happened, I was discovered, and the clean and pure girl that was becoming was made dirty by my mum and something to be hated and not loved. And, yes, for months at a time, I was filled with hate toward the girl. In spite of it all, though, she always came back to me.

The hatred reached its fever pitch with my alcoholism in my late 20s. I wanted to love the girl I was, but that self hatred, that worthlessness that had been driven into me like a spike, that lead me to drink almost killed her. I had a cousin who nearly destroyed me by outing me to whole family. This coupled with a job at Radio Shack where I was told that I was worthless unless I followed the rules of the book 'Dress for Success', had short hair, and didn't meet sales goals, lead to my lowest points. Funny thing is that the cousin who out-ed me was a follower of that paragon of virtue, Rev Jimmy Swaggart. Funny thing #2, is that I now work for a company that could gobble up Radio Shack in one bite, and do it wearing long hair, and girls jeans.

I won't lie. Now that I am sober 21 years, there are still days of self hatred. I deal with them better. I thank God that I have my wife, who loves me for the girl that I am. I am thankful for my Catholic faith that has taught me that I am not evil -- evil as my mum told me that it said I was. It now fills me with hope.

There is one thing that I do hate, though. I hate all the missed opportunities to stand up for myself. I get angry because I didn't stand up to my mum when I was 13. I hate the fact that I didn't go out dressed more often when I was a single 20 something.

But most of all, I wish I could go back to the spring and early summer of 1971, when my 'self' was clean and pure and not soiled with guilt. I wish for just one day back then, to feel that good again.

Huggles

Toni-Lynn

[t-girlxsophie]

I have never hated being a Crossdresser,that other ppl outside our communuity do.Is enough Hate going about for me.And I kept my dressing secret (till I got caught) for fear of losing my son,whether thats me being a coward or whatever other label the usual suspects wanna pin on me then,so be it.I love being a CDer but I will not hurt anyone I love by being one

[kayegirl]

Hate myself?????? HELL NO N)O NO !!!!

[tricia_uktv]

No hon, the complete opposite. I love myself (pink fog) but I love myself for aqchieving what I have

[SusanCACD]

OK, OK. Yes i do hate myself. What now....

[Deborah Jane]

OK, OK. Yes i do hate myself. What now....

Learn to love yourself, "she" ain't ever going away :straightface:

[SusanCACD]

"She" can never be....

[Deborah Jane]

"She" can never be....

I thought that...........Once..............Now she's taking over :brolleyes:

[Rianna Humble]

Why can't cross-dressing be a fetish? Why does it have to mean so and so is somehow transgendered and should be a women?

Cross-dressing can be a fetish, but please don't confuse transgendered with transsexual. Just because someone is transgendered, does not mean that they automatically want or need to change their body to the opposite gender (let's not forget the FtM's here).

Given that in cross-dressing you transcend the normal stereotype associated with your anatomical gender, that puts you into the transgender camp.

That in and of itself does not put you anywhere near being a transsexual - whether MtF or FtM. Other things might or might not, but that is not what we were discussing.


When I say "I'm simply a CD", I mean I'm NOT TG! Or, don't feel like one, anyway.

Unfortunately, you seem to be making the same philosophical leap as gemsay and equating being transgendered with being transsexual.

Cross-dressers and transsexuals are both transgendered, that does not mean that all cross-dressers are transsexuals.

In the same way cats and dogs are both animals, but I don't think you would argue that a cat was a dog.

[Veronica Nowakowski]

I'll agree with much of what you've said. The entire transgendered community needs to start speaking up and defending themselves. The transgendered youth has to be found and taught that hiding themselves and then getting married to someone without ever telling them is a horrible idea. If no positive role models step up, only negative stereotypes will triumph. It's often hard for people to take something personal and be open with it.

You're in a bad position the very moment you get into a committed relationship with a normal woman and they don't know about your transgenderism. You suddenly find out that maybe you're not meant to be but you are both now stuck with time and energy invested into one another and no way to back out. It's a shame.

However, what Raquel June fails to realize, this is a vicious circle. The transgendered do this because society shuns them and threatens their very base survival needs, and society is this way because the transgendered hide away. The more of us that do take the step, the more will follow. If you make it a little bit easier for someone, that may be all the room they need to step out themselves and make it easier for the next person. If you get the change, please don't hide away and pretend you were not born of the opposite sex. Let people know so they can see that positive role model and relate that to transgenderism rather than an authoritarian dick like J Edgar Hoover.

[Perlita85]

Hi, Raquel June,

Very eloquently said, and I admire you courage to siad as it is. I may add that medically we all fell i just one category: gender dysphoric. Then we come up with all the silly names so tha we can group ourselve in happy little clubs. I agree with you that the bottom line is that given the chance all GID people would chose their gender of prefernce rather than exist in a limbo. However, for some of us that have other obligation, and yes out of oour own choice, fully transition is not an option. If I can beg for something from everybody, that would be "be tolerant"

[Frédérique]

Face it. Most crossdressers hate themselves. They are ashamed of being a crossdresser. They try to hide it.

There are good reasons why I try to hide it, and it has nothing to do with being ashamed. I enjoy the secrecy, period – keep things to yourself, out of common sense, and you’ll have less to worry about. BTW, I don’t hate myself, and I never have – quite the opposite, really, and crossdressing is an expression of self-love, at least in my case. Please don’t ASSUME that everyone is in a relationship, desires a relationship, or is eager to self-destruct in a hypothetical relationship, OK? Just once I’d like to come across a thread devoid of the words “relationship,” “partner,” and “significant other.” I’m not alone in this wilderness, am I? Come down from your lofty, distant observation post and meet the rest of us…:straightface:


I'll go disappear again for another few months

There are a lot of hit-and-run posters around here, which makes me stop and contemplate “wasting” time and effort on another soon-to-be meaningless response. Too bad, because people like you who can construct sentences and get ideas across efficiently are as scarce as hen’s teeth. I hope you see that as a back-handed compliment…if you’re still around to read it, I mean…:heehee:


I can personally relate to much of what is in the original post. In fact, I'll wager that much of what is posted there hits a nerve with a whole lot of our population. But the blanket statements therein do not cover everybody adequately. We're all different, and have different motives and goals.

Yes, I pretty much agree with you, Marla (see above). Coming from my own perspective, I never fail to see crossdressing as anything but an exercise in beauty and overall comportment, essential for mental health and balance. As such, I keep my favorite (and inevitable) activity near and dear, protecting the magic of it all by excluding any notion of darkness it may include by way of interpretation. Guilt, self-loathing, and a nagging feeling of engaging in a form of perversion are not part of my makeup, if you pardon the pun…:battingeyelashes:

[Barbara Dugan]

Not sure If all the crossdressers hate themselves but I know I do hate myself when I lie

[Michaela42]

For a very long time I absolutely hated myself. I was a (add whatever self-depreciating adjective you want to here) and I just wanted to be "normal". I did all of the guy stuff (play sports, lift weights, hunt, hound-dogged around, . . . .) and when that did not work I abused my body by not exercising and eating whatever was not nailed down. I have come to realize that it was all in an effort to punish myself for not being "normal". And now it only means that I have that much higher of a hill to climb to be me.

[SuzanneBender]

Wow what a pandora's box of emotion. Thanks for opening it up.

I see a lot of similarities in many of the posts in this thread even the ones that seem to disagree with one another. I suggest we first examine this from a view that is wider than ourselves.

Society will not accept us until we accept ourselves. We challenge a basic concept in society and here is the gorilla in the closet (in a pink tutu to boot), a group of people in our society derive power from that basic concept. Male privilege is not a myth, its real. Those of us who move about in the world while shedding our maleness have had opportunity to experience this firsthand. On the macro level it sounds simple enough, but...

I wrestle on a daily basis with feeling inferior because I am different. I woke up every day of my life wishing that I could shed these transgendered desires and feelings and just follow the status quo. So now despite all of the turmoil in my life and turmoil I cause in the lives of those I love, for my own sanity I try to convince myself what I am doing is right not only for me, but for those that are not allowed to fully express themselves or realize benefits others receive because of a silly set of rules that state you have to stay in certain lines determined by your biology.

I didn't rebel when I was a teen or in college so I guess its my time to stand up to "the man". I don't want to be a man, I don't want to be a woman, I just want to be free to be the wonderful human being that is me.

[Nicole Erin]

Not sure If all the crossdressers hate themselves but I know I do hate myself when I lie

Now Barb, hate yourself if you must but girl, we know one thing - the men love you, you sexy senioritta. :hugs:

Now me, Not really a label taker, somewhere between Cd and TS maybe, and I don't hate myself, there are plenty of people to do the hating for me. :heehee:

[Megan70]

Yes, I do!

[SandraAbsent]

I love being me!

[Elsa Larson]

It is easy for us to feel bad about behaviors we cannot change.
If you cannot change the behavior, then change how you feel about it.

For me, the key was to realize that crossdressing per se is morally NEUTRAL.
Yes, it deviates from social & statistical norms. But it is NOT BAD !
(If your church congregation/denomination says it IS a sin, then find another church.)

Then, give yourself PERMISSION to be different.

[Super Amanda]

I know when I identified as CD, I went a looooong time hating myself, even saying those words to myself all the time. I blamed "it" for ruining my life, making me a reclusive person, sabotaging relationships before they began, 9-11...:eek: but seriously, near the end of my time identifying as a CD, I blamed everything that went wrong for me on "the way I am". Nothing worked for me in those days, and my sadness was immeasurable. Just seeing women in public made me feel a lump in my throat, getting on the edge of choking up...I wanted their lives so bad I could taste it...

I didn't know anything about transsexuals, except from Springer :Angry3: , until I had the Internet on my own, around 2005! It really was sites like this, and girls like Raquel, and the extraordinary gals living full time on youtube, that showed me that I could be me, they were doing it, I could also! Things like pass-ability and other old, seemingly major concerns, became secondary, next to simply being myself...and I realized many things I thought were holding me back, were self imposed....Sure I want to pass, who doesn't? But it just became less make-or-break, and more "hope for the future", who cares what people think I am, I'm happy as hell so that's all that matters. But dang, it's hard to get to that point, and I wish I had the formula, because I would happily share it, free of charge!

So for me, I went through so much self exploration and discovery, that I could write a book about it, as I'm sure we all could, but I had to come to terms with the idea that I NEED TO BE a woman, or as close as I possibly could - as close as science and my budget could bring me, no matter what, not just obsessing, and dreaming about it forever.

I say that it comes down to the individual so many times around here, I feel like a broken record, but of course I believe that in this case as well...do most hate themselves??? I just don't have any way to know what others really feel inside so all I can say that I did, and am barely starting to like myself for the first time in my entire life, I like what I see in the mirror, even without makeup ;) which is just a priceless, nearly tear-jerking moment for me sometimes...all because I figured out how to fix my individual problem, which was that I needed to transition. :love:

What a freakin blabber mouth I am! :brolleyes: Sorry!

[AKAMichelle]

A lot of the posts here talk about not hating themselves. Many got all hung up on that part of the post and the bigger point is "If you don't hate yourself - do you love yourself?" We are quick to complain about problems with people accepting us. Especially our SO's after we lied to them and covered it up for so many years. I made that same mistake that many of you have made. I thought I could beat it or it didn't hurt anyone so why tell her and hurt her? I can tell you why. The real problem with telling your SO after many years of marriage is the loss of trust because you lied and covered up everything. We watch politician after politician get in trouble with the law for doing something. They never seem to get in trouble for taking the money or doing something wrong. They always get the jail time for trying to cover it up and lying about it. Why can't we learn from all this?

I think this post hits the nail on the head and I applaud her for having the guts to say what I think so much of the time. How can you ever expect to be happy when nobody every knows you? They know the facade and that's all. My wife and I were together for 26.5 years and she never truly knew me. That is a sad statement, but it is the truth because I hid myself from her for so many years. My hiding everything is one big contributing factor to my marriage to failing.

[Satrana]

Raquel

Please do not project your own hatred onto others. Most CDs do not hate themselves. Shame, guilt, fear - yes these are common and we all dived into our closets to escape society's prejudices. We internalized these erroneous ideas which lowered our self esteem and left as confused and anxious. These feelings were greatly compounded because we were isolated without support or information.

But things change fast, society is now accommodating, and the internet has given us a voice and support network that combats society's prejudice. The vast majority of posts here are statements of joy, wonderment, exploration, pleasure and satisfaction. Where is all this hate you perceive?

Most CDs are not interested in a full time transgendered lifestyle. The crossdressing is only a part of them, it does not define who they are as a person. For the most part it is used as a "hobby" which operates just fine in a closet. Coming out is a game of russian roulette. Chances are when you pull the trigger you will fire on an empty chamber, but sometimes the unlucky ones find the bullet and they end up losing their wife, children and even their job.

Most people are not interested in playing russian roulette. That is not hating themselves, that is just common sense and self preservation.

[Kickin' Crosser]

I'm in an odd position really.

I am coming to grips with telling my GF about my fascination with cross dressing, because in reality what seems like a straightforward thing to do is riddled with many pitfalls.

My exploration, as many who read my introduction post know, was accelerated by the conditions in which I was living my first year at state university [though I refrained from explaining that bit in more detail]. There I suffered living with a terrible roommate for most of the academic year, a roommate whom used the pleasurable act of sex as a means of mental torture and exile, in ways I never thought such acts could be wielded, upon a fellow roommate trying to make it through the Freshman struggle. It was quite common for my body to be exiled from the room - and the suite because of the noise - for anywhere 4 to 7 hours, even if the following morning I had a class from 8:30 AM to 2:30 PM [no joke I did]. He often had sex whilst I was sleeping, and once attempted to do so whilst I was awake and falling asleep [which resulted in a swift kick of the door, casualty being a desk lamp].

The RA next door was no help, the school's counseling center made a good effort in scaring people out of using them for help [lest they be considered insane, shipped out for mental evaluation and railroaded to sign agreements or g0et suspended/expelled apparently]. After that, the habit stuck, and here I am now. A shrink I see thinks that maybe it is that I rely HEAVILY on CDing [as opposed to causal as I did before that year of hell] as a means of coping with the deep emotional wounds I had sustained in the past. I agree [and figured it out before the conclusion was drawn by him].

The long rant above has a purpose.

Now that I am in this relationship, I feel like that which I turned to CDing for in part is being nourished, but to tell her soul - regardless of how tolerant she is / seems to be - runs the risk of her wanting to get as far away from me as possible, thus landing me back at square one-and-a-half. Seems like a catch-22 to me.

[~Michelle~]

Raquel, you have been straightforward, so I would appreciate it if you can also accept it when I'm being straightforward.

What is the purpose of this thread? Basically you're complaining about people who... complain, unless you seriously think that this thread will encourage even one person to follow your advice.

Why does it bother you so much how others live their life? Sometimes I also see things that bother me about fellow crossdressers, but I don’t write a huge post about it, I just accept that we’re all different. Raquel, with you however I sense that you’re more frustrated with how the world accepts YOU and try to target your frustrations at closet crossdressers.

[Debb]

...
Don't live your life with excuses. Don't tell yourself you can't be yourself because of other people. I see all the time people making themselves miserable for the sake of relationships that are probably doomed to begin with. And I'll bet a lot of these people are in relationships that would make them miserable and fall apart even if there weren't any gender issues involved. Everybody has issues with their parents expectations, and often feels like they're living their life to satisfy others, even non-crossdressers! And if anybody wants to be happy they have to say screw everybody else's expectations, I'm going to be me.
...


I am quoting this part of your post because it's the only part I have a disagreement with.

I have a loving wife, who I've been married to for more than 27 years. Just recently, she decided that she's not OK with my crossdressing (I told her about it, and she was accepting, around seven years ago). I don't see my relationship with her as "doomed" at all; it is a work in progress, and at the end it will be a masterpiece.

I agree with all the rest of what you said. I have had hate issues all my life, because of my transgendered-ness. I go out in public, dressed, because it's who I am... but will stop doing that for now, in an effort to deal with my wife's new attitude.

[mklinden2010]

>> After that, the habit stuck, and here I am now. A shrink I see thinks that maybe it is that I rely HEAVILY on CDing [as opposed to causal as I did before that year of hell] as a means of coping with the deep emotional wounds I had sustained in the past. I agree [and figured it out before the conclusion was drawn by him].

>>The long rant above has a purpose.

>>Now that I am in this relationship, I feel like that which I turned to CDing for in part is being nourished, but to tell her soul - regardless of how tolerant she is / seems to be - runs the risk of her wanting to get as far away from me as possible, thus landing me back at square one-and-a-half. Seems like a catch-22 to me.

KC,

That’s no Catch 22, that’s just a fact. A Catch 22 would be “you can’t win either way.” That is not really the case here. Fact is, you just don’t know how it could turn out. The only way to find out is to try. If there is a sure way to screw up, however, it is probably to say nothing and wind up getting caught, “lying” later. Now, that’s a “catch.”

If you tell her, if you tell anyone anything about anything you think or feel, you run the risk of them, the other person, deciding to split. You could say you don’t like dogs, ice cream, democrats… anything… and people can and will vote with their feet.

But, they can vote all sorts of ways. A lot of times you say something and they say, “Really? Cool!” But, nothing ventured, nothing gained. And, in this case, as many can tell you, you really don’t want to get into a long-term relationship where you are hiding some basic feelings, thoughts, and actions from your presumable best friend.

I think in CDing, and escalating your CDing, you found something that worked and you managed to get past the worst of that year. In the process, you found out just how effective things like CDing can be for survival and mental health. You found out something about your abilities and potential and you value what you are doing as something useful to you.

Even without the roommate, people are pretty smart and many have started down an unmarked or mis-marked road only to discover that they liked what they were doing and wanted to continue. People, in any event, are adaptable and will tend to use what works over and over again.

I see CDing as an interesting thing in my life. Not always a plus, and sometimes a minus. But, it is one of many things that I know how to do, how to employ, so I try not to ignore it, spend time shoving it away, or, pretending, "I'm not like that." It's just part of who I am and what I do. Life will go on, the planet keeps spinning…

There are upsides, such as being able to "get" why you wouldn't want to walk in heels in the rain to the Mall's door. Why some chairs are just awful to sit in. And, how hopeless it is to expect to get any work done in some clothes. Not to mention how someone can literally be a slave to fashion in clothes that look good but feel like chain mail on bare skin.

For your GF to know you, she needs to know something about what you do and why you do it. My SOs have never rejected me for CDing. In fact, after some head-scratching, all have been supportive - some overly so!

Most women, by and large, by nurture if not by nature, wind up in support roles for infants and children and thus are accustomed to seeing the “real man” behind the green curtain – who turns out very often not to be the same person he lets everyone else see. Your SO in life will support you because you are you – and nobody expects perfect. They will work with you as you work with them.

Since you are in a dating situation, keep in mind the institution of dating is all about trail and error – with most people getting passed over in favor of the next one until something sticks. And, when something does stick, there’s a lot of “practicing on each other” that will naturally take place. So, you might as well get onto the next round with this GF and see how things go. Life, for a long time, is trail and error – then things settle down for long periods at a time.

Marriage, when you get around to it, is not really about tying you to another person; it’s really about defining the relationship and protecting it from others. You know the part about “Let no man put asunder?” Well, you and she –as the case may be - have the right to have your marriage without interference from others. What you do, what you work out, between yourselves is your business.

Again, the institution of marriage is actually a mansion of sorts, with legal locks on the doors and windows that keep other people from interfering with YOUR lives. You can get out if you want, but others are not allowed in… See how that really works?

Good luck in being you and working out a good life with yourself and others.

Be proud of what you get done – and use every tool you have that seems to work in your pursuit of happiness.

Results, in a lot of life, matter a lot more than methods.

Be happy.

[Jenniferx1]

No way on this planet do i hate myself because of my crossdressing.
I share my love of crossdressing with my partner whenever i feel like it.
I feel like it most of the time......beside life is far too short to hate....think of all the make up and dresses to try on.......:eek:


Life is for living

:love:

[Loni]

i do not hate my self, not even a dislike.

yes problems from growing up not knowing what i really am.
as i was growing up it was to be in woman's clothing a fag, pervert, child molester, etc. but after this internet thing i find it is not so. we are just plan folk that like the finer things in life.

.

[Debb]

Just stopping in to say: WOW! This thread has been awesome, thanks to all for posting (original poster AND responders).

[Super Amanda]

What is the purpose of this thread? .

What's the purpose of any thread? I like when someone has something provocative to say around here. Jeez, aren't there enough boring, same 'ol threads as it is?

Agree or disagree, but don't get mad because someone has a *gasp* difference of opinion.

I read every reply in a thread before I make a comment of my own, and while I respect everyone's opinion, that's all they are at the end of the day, so why get all worked up? ;)

[Jenniferx1]

What's the purpose of any thread? I like when someone has something provocative to say around here. Jeez, aren't there enough boring, same 'ol threads as it is?

Agree or disagree, but don't get mad because someone has a *gasp* difference of opinion.

I read every reply in a thread before I make a comment of my own, and while I respect everyone's opinion, that's all they are at the end of the day, so why get all worked up? ;)

How right you are.........what surprises more than anything else in this world is how many cannot see life just passing them by............you stay a long time dead....enjoy the journey...

:heehee:

[Anneliese]

I love myself.

[Marcie4you]

I go out...

[Sarah Doepner]

I'm fine with myself now. I don't know if I ever hated myself but I was pretty unhappy with how I behaved and all that I was hiding from. Once I actually engaged in figuring out what it was that I was doing and how it fit into my life things started to change. Eventually I accepted crossdressing as a part of my personality and once I was able to share this with my wife, there was no place for hate to grow. I'd cut off the blood supply and the self-hate died.

[clandestine322]

I don't think I could ever say I hated myself but rather hated the things I had urges to do. I think the hate of wanting to crossdress stems from the deception and lies it seems to encompass for many. Most feel they have to hide it and do so, even lying to keep the secret. This only further compounds the problem and at some point something must give. If one should hate anything it should be the deception.

[Raquel June]

OK, I went back and read my 3:00am rambling from last week, and parts of it didn't even make any sense to me, so ... uhhh ... sorry. :)




Crossdressing usually just doesn't work very well as a life - for a number of reasons. ...

I wasn't trying to imply that crossdressers should be full-time femme if they don't want to. I doubt many of them actually do.

I guess I'm just more talking about being yourself. The happiest crossdressers I know are confident no matter how they're dressed. If someone says to them, "Uhh, why are your legs shaved?" they don't get all embarrassed. They don't make up some asinine excuse about being an aspiring competitive cyclist. They just own it, and say they don't like body hair.




I got over being ashamed, confused, angry, disgusted, scared, and so forth when I got past the play acting and the erotism of crossdressing and realized that trying on different roles and clothes was actually crosstraining to be a better person, a better human being. My SOs fight for my presence. I don't mean they compete for my time and attention, I mean they value it so much they "cleave" to me as a valuable person. I can dress as I like and do what I want - but it's because I am open with what I am doing and why I am doing it and they nod and say, "That sounds like a great idea. You're a good person doing good things and I can support that."

I guess that's my real question. How many crossdressers do you think ever get to that point?

The trans crowd has to get past a lot of fear to get to the point of being full-time and confident to be happy. I think a lot of people consider themselves trans but never quite make it there.

I'm more just wondering what place crossdressers can get to to find happiness and truly be at peace with all their issues. It seems like CDs have about as much stress and inner frustration and lack of confidence as trans people do. I've met a lot of CDs who really aren't what I would call well-adjusted. The ones who are don't generally live full-time, but they do have a very positive outlook and aren't afraid to go out to eat with me en femme.

I guess I was just wondering out loud about all the unhappiness I see in the CD section.

There's plenty unhappiness among trans people, but it's fairly focused on specific issues that they are trying to deal with. Often the CD unhappiness I see is more confused and not being dealt with at all.




Why can't cross-dressing be a fetish? Why does it have to mean so and so is somehow transgendered and should be a women? I'm happy to admit here I'm a pervert and have used womens clothes in private for pleasure.

Good point. One of the most wonderful and sincere people I know, and definitely my best friend in the crossdressing crowd, likes to see how skanky she can dress and go hook up. I guess it's a fairly public thing for her, but still, it's mostly a fetish, and that works fine for her.




I believe that the author is not focusing her attention on those of you that are totally happy with the situation you are in.

Right. Thanks.

[Satrana]

Often the CD unhappiness I see is more confused and not being dealt with at all.


Now you are making more sense and I would agree with you. Unlike TS, CDs do not have a definitive goal to aim for. Instead they just focus on having fun whilst still being confused about what it all means. Many are still in the closet or are out only to their SOs who may not be accepting.

I think many are caught in a rut of performing their male role expectations whilst being frustrated that their feminine side remains under wraps. Years can go by without any progress largely because they are caught in the middle between conformity and being themselves. It can be thought of as a lose-lose situation.

[MJ]

all the time for so many reason on so many levels

Good to know I'm not alone :sad:

[BRANDYJ]

I might have responded to this thread before, but if so, I will say it again. I do not hate myself for being a CD. I fully understand and accept the fact that I am. I also very strongly believe by being a CD with what to me are some very strong female emotional triats, I am a much better man for being a CD.

[PortiaHoney]

Oh my. What an interesting thread. And so many conflicting points of view. How can I agree with everyone as everyone has valid arguements?

I know at times I have been at every point of every one of these views. I have done the self loathing, the self hatred, the fear, the loneliness, the shame, so far into the closet I couldn't find the door, but more recently, pride, confidence and openess to discuss what "we" do, not only from my perspective, but from the perspectives of those I have met and the stories of others. I have accepted myself and can hold my head up to those who take issue with "who" I am.

BUT, I have had to reign myself in, because in my eagerness to accept and celebrate who I have discovered myself to be, have convinced myself that others who "appear" to be at stages I have "passed" through, need to have their eyes opened to their inner self who is crying out to be free.

AND NOW, I realise that people must be allowed to feel comfortable with whatever stage the are at, regardless of where I or others think they should be. There are many factors which influence our lives. Prices to be paid and needs to be filled. We cannot rush another to where we think they should be. And we should not criticise them for not being there or brave enough to stand up and say "this is what I want"! They have reasons for being where they are and everyones reasons are good so long as it helps them to live comfortably with who they are. So, the closeted CD may hide his "perversion" from his wife, but that is what they probably both need to do. She may very well not understand why he insists on wanting to wear womens clothing. His reasons for doing so may not sit well with her as it is a form of competition for her "mate". There is a good chance the revelation will not end well and the proportion that do is very small indeed. I am a huge believer in openess and honesty in a relationship and the price of hiding this behaviour may very well be the relationship and every benefit derived therein if discovered. But, and I am sure many of us have faced this dilemma, at what point to you tell your prospective partner, and, how do you explain something that, maybe even to yourself, has no exact definition? How often do we hear about "purging" - oh I'm a normal man again and not into any of that sissy stuff any more, only to find 6 months later it's back with a vengence? And she just wants to know what will make you happy? I know I heard more than once from a partner - "I though you liked this?" oinly to find that was last week!

So, have fun girls, be as open as you feel you can be, and be prepared to pay the piper if you get caught, and good luck if you are brave enough and sure enough to tell your partner/family/friends/employer about your needs and wants. Being open and honest is so liberating, but you must be sure of what it is that you want and to be prepard to pay the price and reap the benefits too. :D

[Rianna Humble]

I realise that people must be allowed to feel comfortable with whatever stage the are at, regardless of where I or others think they should be. There are many factors which influence our lives. Prices to be paid and needs to be filled. We cannot rush another to where we think they should be. And we should not criticise them for not being there or brave enough to stand up and say "this is what I want"! They have reasons for being where they are and everyone's reasons are good so long as it helps them to live comfortably with who they are.

:iagree: I couldn't have said it any better

[Sophie_C]

I really don't necessarily "hate" myself as much as I feel burdened. If I don't be myself, everything is ok, except I am living a lie. If I am myself, I stand to lose everything. I didn't ask for such a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation. So, I just live with it. Ugh...

[Debb]

This has been a really thought-provoking thread, and I'm glad there're so many disparate viewpoints. I've learned a lot about myself following the discussion here.

I guess it's not true to say that I hate myself. I'm frequently sad and/or discombobulated, but it's not actually *hate*.

[Deborah Jane]

It goes in phases, sometimes I feel ok with who I am, sometimes I absolutely hate who I am and just wish it would all go away.

Right now, I'm in a hate it phase :sad:

[Kelly DeWinter]

I can't say I have ever hated myself, I've learned, that I was afraid of how others would percieve me. Which did kept my self esteem down. Now that I have friends that I can talk to and relate to, I feel pretty good about myself.


Kelly

[VikkiVixen7188]

Im not married. My girlfriend knows loves and accepts me.

[crusadergirl]

I never hated myself i just never could understand why i wanted to look like a girl. Yeah i want to go out but i don't.
I don't fit in with other cross dressers I stand alone when i'm ready to be out the world will know.
For me its about the look not how i walk and talk, i'm not going to copy the way women act thats not me. So there is no hate just still learning how to deal with my feelings.

[izzfan]

This is the strange thing, I usually feel pretty alright about who and what I am (even though my gender can sometimes seem paradoxical and confusing to me) and I am often quite confident when buying clothes but the last time I went to buy some clothes (about two weeks ago), the shopkeeper happened to casually ask "Who is this for?". Well, all of my confidence suddenly evaporated and I tried to stutter out an answer and think of something to say. I almost felt like I was sixteen again, buying (female) clothes for the first time (this was probably one of the scariest experiences of my life) and I tried to think of an "excuse" but all the excuses I used back then sounded laughably absurd to me now (the best was probably "it's for research purposes").

So, there I was, rendered almost mute by nervous fear for less than a minute (but it felt somewhat longer). The shopkeeper changed the subject, I bought the clothes silently and walked home. I think it took me at least an hour before I stopped thinking of myself as being somehow "freakish" or "wrong" (which is odd because I thought I had got over most of those feelings years ago).

I guess it is one thing to accept who I am when I am alone or when I am discussing it with people in an abstract and obscure fashion but in terms of people actually seeing for themselves what I am (with no "excuse" or context to "explain it") then I still feel a lot of the old fears.


It's a little taboo to talk about how blurred the line can be between CD and TS, but honestly I think a lot of crossdressers are transgendered girls without the self-respect to be themselves when anybody's watching except maybe a very small and very safe circle of friends.

It's hard to be comfortable with yourself. I spent so many years telling myself, "I know all I need is confidence." Well, that's pretty damn hard when all you want to be is a pretty girl just like any other girl wants, and yeah, nobody's as pretty as they want to be, but you're staring in the mirror at a 6-foot-tall hairy person with a penis and a receding hairline. Ouch! I went through a period of being suicidal and I was still afraid to be myself most of the time. That's ridiculous! I didn't care whether I lived or died but I was still too afraid of what people thought of me to leave the house most of the time. When I would go out and people would react negatively to me, it was never a big deal. I was still always glad I was trying to be myself. But the next day I would still want to lock myself inside even though I didn't even know what I was afraid of (since people who were mean to me didn't really bother me that much). So I know it's horribly difficult to be confident, and it can take years. But it's important if you're ever going to be happy. If you're ever going to understand yourself. If you're ever going to be comfortable.

.

Wow, this is quite a powerful statement which seemed to resonate with me a lot. Especially the part about confidence and looking in the mirror (although I'm only about 5 foot 7 or so and thankfully, my hairline is not receding. Still, I often don't like "looking like a guy" even if it is just having a five o clock shadow). I am often only en femme behind locked doors and closed curtains and it does feel kind of limiting to put it mildly (I can sort of pull off an androgynous look in bob mode sometimes). I can totally understand the whole locking yourself inside thing though and I can often be slightly nocturnal and reclusive.

I have often wondered about exactly where I fall on the whole spectrum of being transgender and I'm starting to think that I might be more than a crossdresser (not that there is anything "less" about being a crossdresser!) although I have my fair share of reservations about taking it any further. At the very least, I see myself as androgynous (I have taken the COGIATI test god knows how many times and the results always seem to come out as "androgyne") but when I feel feminine it seems to vary wildly between being incredibly "girly" and being something of a "tomboy" . I know that the COGIATI may not be a perfect test but it is still quite interesting and illuminating in some ways.

The problem is that when I am out in public, or even in private social situations, I almost always act like a guy. It seems to be some kind of second-nature, hard-wired reflex or defence mechanism. So, it would be kind of hard to explain to anyone that I have this whole female side if they have mostly/always seen me act and talk like a guy (albeit a slightly nervous, occasionally effeminate, often reserved and conservative guy)

Interestingly, on the few occasions when I have met other transgendered people (both CD and TS) in person I often feel kind of nervous, uncomfortable or awkward. I know that this is absurd, especially since I am trangender but I guess it probably has something to do with self-loathing or at least a small level of jealously ( I have always been in male mode whenever I have met other TG people, or I worry that they may mistake me for being an "admirer" or I worry that I may accidentally use the wrong pronoun etc... and I guess I also feel kind of sad that I do not have the confidence to openly be myself. Also, most TG people I've met pass a hell of a lot better than I probably do, so it is probably at least in part jealousy).

In short, it's complicated but I thank you for bringng up this very thought-provoking topic.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

izzfan...one thing that might help you alot is to spend some quality time with crossdressing folk, and with transsexuals...

its so important to get this human contact with people that share your inner thoughts, desires, and/or needs...seeing "peers" face to face is a great way to work it out for yourself..

you have described specific things that happened to me for example...having the opportunity to share my experiences with other tg people was invaluable to me

[mklinden2010]

Your original post wasn't so much a question as a declaration that most crossdressers hate themselves.

I think most of the responses have been along the lines of "I hate/hated that I struggled with all these issues for so long."

In your more recent post, you asked when CDers would get to the point where they were happy with what they were doing and could just get on in life.

That, it seems to me, is both a question and an answer.

And old friend of mine, who was TS and now is just who she is, complained of CDers:

"They show up at meetings and house parties - any excuse to dress up - but they don't do anything but play at whatever they're doing. They don't offer to do anything but show up, they don't argue for better treatment of others at work or with the cops and courts, and, most of them don't even tell their wives what they are doing. They're hopeless. They're useless. I'm transitioning and, as much as I hate what they're doing by not doing, I'm going on with my life as a woman and like most people, I just don't have time for people who won't help themselves do any better, or, anyone else."

This woman transitioned twenty years ago with her SO by her side - the SO who is still there. She came out at work, and still works there. She's gone on to buy a house, learn a new language, start a business, and, all the while, has stayed active in the community and in local and state politics. Her life has purpose and direction and it's an open book. She understands that people disagree about things, but she gets respect because she stands for what she says and does.

In my life, I've taken a course as a CDer that holds that I am the same person, with the same rights as everyone else, and I stand for everyone else being left along, or, if not going to be left alone - such as the oft dreaded traffic stop crossdressed - at least be treated no better and no worse than anyone else.

The main thing about being who you are - is being who you are. The clothes, I decided long ago, don't really matter so much as the person in them. I don't let what I am wearing change who I am, and I don't allow other people to redefine who I am by what I happen to be wearing.

So, no self-hatred here. Just don't have time for it.

Do what you like and be a good person.

Anybody gives you crap, give them any necessary amount back - and go on about your business.

"CD Pride" is as good as any other "pride," and, just as necessary.

[charlie]

Hello Raquel!
Great from the heart post. I visit Phoenix alot and go to many of the area's bars and shows. I've sat in Amsterdam's, Cruzin7th and Forbidden before and seen just what you are talking about at the bottom of your post. Married men hustling CD and TG persons for sex. I don't know if all the people are married, but I do know several CD who are and still go out with people that they pickup. Several CD, TG people there are open prostitutes. That does not make all of us cheaters. It also does not mean that all of us hate who we are or what we do. If given a choice, I would gladly not be a CD. It makes my life with my wife more difficult, would startle many of my friends and make many of my work associates blanch. Still, I dress and go out about one week (5 days) per month. When dressed, I feel a release of tension, pleasure in being another being and I feel pretty. In most ways it is better for me then having to take Valium or some other stress reliever. I do not understand why I dress, but have come to accept it. If I tried to stop, it would be a constant chore and I would miss it. Still, I would quit for societal reasons if I could.

[Dame Gerous]

I can't say the most cross dressers hate themselves.

I have been a CD all my life and though I am not "out" to the world at large, I never hid it from SO's I have been involved with. I have never hated myself.

I told my wife over a year before we married and that was 16 years ago. My wife has said to me that she could never imagine not being married to a cross dresser because life would be not only too straight and boring but she always knows where my stash of spare unopened BOGO mascara's are!

If cross dressers "hate" anything, I would think that hatred is pointed towards the people that will not accept them to be who they want to be without fear, hatred and disdain.

But then again the people who tent to hate things, seem to hate everything.



Karen, you have made me smile and my day better. Thank you!!!

[ReineD]

I asked my SO once if she ever felt guilt or shame about the CDing and she said no, she always accepted it was a healthy part of who she is. But she was leery of other people's reactions to it. If someone is TS, there is no other option but to come out, since the alternative is a slow spiritual death. But I can see other factors contributing to a CD's wish to keep it private other than self-loathing.

My first point is in the form of a question since I don't know the answer. Would the CDs who first start out with it being rather sexual believe it to be a private thing, as any other sexual practice, and then wouldn't it continue to be private as a matter of habit? For some CDs it is more sexual than a matter of gender ID. Also, don't the urges to CD ebb and flow naturally for many people, rather than being a consistent need as it is for a TS?

Second, I've wondered if a CD is on the fence with this, meaning she doesn't identify fully as a woman and still values her guy side, does she recognize that giving in to the euphoric urges that CDing often produces would cause her to make decisions she might regret later? I do wonder if some CDs feel safer being in a marriage with a 'don't ask don't tell' policy for this very reason. It's like having a built-in system of checks and balances.

Third, it might well be the way that boys construe their male identities. Don't they do this in adolescence by rejecting all things female? So it makes sense there would be a genuine inner battle going on among some CDs over self-acceptance, (especially if there is a strong male ID present), depending on their upbringing, their personalities, and how liberal or not is their environment. I'm guessing that if the male identity is not strong (if she is a TS), then there would not be the inner turmoil.

And last, I believe that most people do want to live harmoniously among others and not feel they are being ostracized or that doors are shut to them that otherwise wouldn't be. I'd even guess it is a basic human need. The biggest battle is getting the rest of the world to believe that being TG is perfectly healthy and natural. I do agree it is necessary for TGs now to go out in force to pave the way for future generations, but I also understand those who don't have the inclination to do this. They may have children that they want to protect from the hassles of dealing with it among their unenlightened peers. And as I've mentioned earlier, it may not be a matter of life or death for a CD to come out as it might be for a TS.

If the desire to live as a woman is strong enough, I've no doubt that TGs do eventually work their way forward with being out. Especially now with all the resources that are currently available. There is a thread going on right now asking the younger CDs/TSs how it is for them and there is quite a difference between now and just a generation ago. It is getting better. But there is still a long way to go.

[Debutante]

"And old friend of mine, who was TS and now is just who she is, complained of CDers:

"They show up at meetings and house parties - any excuse to dress up - but they don't do anything but play at whatever they're doing. They don't offer to do anything but show up, they don't argue for better treatment of others at work or with the cops and courts, and, most of them don't even tell their wives what they are doing. They're hopeless. They're useless. I'm transitioning and, as much as I hate what they're doing by not doing, I'm going on with my life as a woman and like most people, I just don't have time for people who won't help themselves do any better, or, anyone else."


Well said here... I think we need better understanding and solidarity with our sisters and brothers along the whole TG spectrum, so that those struggling are not doing so on their own, alone, and with no help. Not all CDs are this way... I try not to be. But the paranoia and self-supression keeps us in the closet and fear does not let us help openly with our TS sisters (or brothers).

[ReineD]

Well said here...

But the tricky part is that not everyone is in the same place along the continuum and the agendas aren't the same. So why should the goals be the same? What's wrong with a CD spending an enjoyable evening out wearing a fabulous outfit and enjoying herself? If she is not doing anything to impede the TS from doing what she needs to do, what's the harm?

The person who said this may be happier if she was a tad more tolerant of the differences among members of the community.

I remember spending a great deal of time volunteering at my children's schools when they were little (it was important to me) and driving myself crazy in the beginning with the majority of the moms who didn't help out as much (it wasn't as important to them ... they had other priorities in their lives). This only served to make me miserable. I quickly learned to just be happy with what I could do and I stopped judging others.

[docrobbysherry]

[QUOTE=ReineD;2159295]-------------But I can see other factors contributing to a CD's wish to keep it private other than self-loathing.

My first point is in the form of a question since I don't know the answer. Would the CDs who first start out with it being rather sexual believe it to be a private thing, as any other sexual practice, and then wouldn't it continue to be private as a matter of habit? For some CDs it is more sexual than a matter of gender ID. Also, don't the urges to CD ebb and flow naturally for many people, rather than being a consistent need as it is for a TS?


Third, it might well be the way that boys construe their male identities. Don't they do this in adolescence by rejecting all things female? So it makes sense there would be a genuine inner battle going on among some CDs over self-acceptance, (especially if there is a strong male ID present), depending on their upbringing, their personalities, and how liberal or not is their environment. I'm guessing that if the male identity is not strong (if she is a TS), then there would not be the inner turmoil.

And last, I believe that most people do want to live harmoniously among others and not feel they are being ostracized or that doors are shut to them that otherwise wouldn't be. I'd even guess it is a basic human need. -------------------------- They may have children that they want to protect from the hassles of dealing with it among their unenlightened peers. And as I've mentioned earlier, it may not be a matter of life or death for a CD to come out as it might be for a TS.-----------------------------------------------------QUOTE]

Your first point: I can't answer for anyone but me, Reine. Altho I think some CDS here r in denial and that sex plays a BIG part in dressing for MANY. That's the MAIN reason I can't come out to my family and friends! How would I explain it?

"Well, see, I have this fun new hobby! I like to dress up like a woman. It's challenging, creative, and I find it a LOT more exciting than watching the Lakers, collecting old bottles, or traveling! Oh, and it REALLY turns me ON!":eek:

If I can't tell them the whole truth, it's better kept a secret! And, as u state, because I happily dress in private, I don't feel the need to go out in public as others do!

As to "ebbing and flowing": When I first came out on line, about 2 1/2 years ago, I was MAD to dress every chance I got. And, FRUSTRATED when I couldn't! :sad: After 6 months of that, I suddenly had no desire to dress. It returned in 2 months. Since then, I've worked out a schedule. As long as I allow myself to dress whenever I want, the NEED to dress doesn't become overwhelming. I live alone part time. So, I can literally, dress every other day/nite, if I wish to.
However, SO MANY OTHERS can't do that! So the urge to, must BUILD UP!:Angry3:

Your third point: "Reject things female?" Not I. I've been fascinated with girls since I was 11, and held hands with 9 y/o Becky Bailey in Yosemite! But, I DO identify with the part about "growing up male". I was never tough enuff to satisfy my dad, ( or myself)! Sometimes I wonder how I let myself get SO FAR DOWN the yellow brick CD road!? My dad must be rolling over in his grave!:doh:

Your last point: I was raised as an "outcast", so to speak. Liberal family in a VERY rite wing area. Because of my name, many thot I was Jewish. We weren't, or my father wouldn't have moved there! Because there were NO Jews there back then. It wasn't until I got older, that I found out why everyone picked on me as a kid!
So, do I want my teen daughter to have to live with having a CD dad? She doesn't need any more complications, and I couldn't live with myself if I caused embarrassing problems for her!:thumbsdn:

[Raquel June]

Hello Raquel!
Great from the heart post. I visit Phoenix alot and go to many of the area's bars and shows. I've sat in Amsterdam's, Cruzin7th and Forbidden before and seen just what you are talking about at the bottom of your post. Married men hustling CD and TG persons for sex. I don't know if all the people are married, but I do know several CD who are and still go out with people that they pickup. Several CD, TG people there are open prostitutes. That does not make all of us cheaters. It also does not mean that all of us hate who we are or what we do.

I know! I was just clarifying that as unfair as it is for people with gender issues to be treated like perverts, there are plenty perverts out there who just happen to have gender issues.

Amsterdam is awesome. Before I went there, I'd never been to a gay-friendly club that wasn't a total cliché with a drag show almost every night.

I've only been to Cruisin 7th about five times, and I've seen hookers down at the end of the bar more than once, and I've had guys try to pick me up most times, but only two drunk guys have ever been obnoxious about it. One was drunk and horny, and the other one was harassing several girls and quickly got kicked out by the bartender. One CD (who was married) was being careful but was awfully flattering and kinda hinting at some kinda 3-way with my GF, but was as polite as possible. For the most part that place seems full of really nice gay guys and friendly transvestites shooting pool, and the T-chasers are usually respectful and will try to get me a drink and actually treat me like a woman. I've never before talked to a guy who was interested and respectful at the same time.

Compare that to Columbus or Cincinnati where over and over again I've been approached by CDs who immediately turn the conversation sexual, and Dayton where most gender-benders who go out to clubs make me cringe to be associated with them, and the only guys who would do more than whisper about me from across the room were such a-holes that if they treated GGs like that the whole town would've turned lesbian.

I guess it's an obvious correlation. The less progressive an area is the more I am treated like a sex object, because (1) their only exposure to TS folks is probably porn, and (2) what other use do you have for someone you wouldn't be seen with in public?

[juno]

It is easy for someone with interests or behaviours of any kind to feel abnormal if they don't know anyone else with the same interests, especially for teens who are searching for their identity and how they fit into the world. The reality is that it is normal to be abnormal in some ways.

This is one place where the internet is really a good thing. Not only can you discover people like yourself, but you realize there are people much more unusual. People can communicate with other like-minded people, and everyone gets more exposure to human diversity.

For people out there who dislike their CD interests, don't. There are so many far worse behaviours that merit dislike, such as spouse or child abuse.

[docrobbysherry]

For people out there who dislike their CD interests, don't. There are so many far worse behaviours that merit dislike, such as spouse or child abuse.

Juno, I agree with MOST of what said! Except, your LAST line! To me it sounds a lot like,
" I should feel GOOD about myself because all I do is drink and drive. I COULD be shooting heroin and beating my kids!"

I just can't rationalize, or feel good about my dressing, using that kind of logic!

[Staci G]

Nope I don't hate myself at all, matter of fact is I love the fem side of me and if had the choice I would make the transition to full time Staci. There is just one reason I don't and that is my wife. I love her even with her unaccepting, intolerant, hater ways I love her. I can say I hate the fact that I cant go full time but I guess I will have to just "get over it" and live in hiding but thats still not hating myself.

[Raquel June]

It is easy for someone with interests or behaviours of any kind to feel abnormal if they don't know anyone else with the same interests, especially for teens who are searching for their identity and how they fit into the world. The reality is that it is normal to be abnormal in some ways.

This is one place where the internet is really a good thing. Not only can you discover people like yourself, but you realize there are people much more unusual. People can communicate with other like-minded people, and everyone gets more exposure to human diversity.

For people out there who dislike their CD interests, don't. There are so many far worse behaviours that merit dislike, such as spouse or child abuse.

Yeah, but abnormal people who like abusing their spouses and children wouldn't have any problem finding support online. I'm sure there are plenty fundamentalist forums that'd be right up their alley.

I don't believe in a cure for crossdressing and/or transgender issues, but if a cure existed it would involve unplugging your Internet connection.

[Satrana]

The person who said this may be happier if she was a tad more tolerant of the differences among members of the community.


Absolutely CDs and TSs usually have different agendas. Anyone who has been involved in the TG scene for decades knows there has been a historical conflict between TSs and CDs.

In particular TSs have complained about the motives and behaviors of CDs for example to name but a few -


CDs are in denial, they all really want to transition but are too scared to be themselves
CDs need to be honest and come out of the closet and become TG activists
CDs should be full blown feminists and support all forms of female activism and women issues
CDs dress sense and sexuality mocks real women and discredits all TGs


In my experience these fustrations come from TSs in the throws of transition when they have no choice but to come out of the closet themselves and fully expose themselves to everything society may wish to hold against them. They may lose family and friends and their lives will take a dramatic new course. It is all a very serious consuming effort on their part not least their financial and love lives many take a serious hit.

In contrast the closeted, fantasy-driven, fun-orientated, part-time dressing of CDs may seem too comfortable, cowardly and aimless in comparison.

Ironically though after transition has been completed many TSs go into "stealth" meaning they burn their bridges and history of their male lives and begin life anew with a new identity. This means they also break off all contact with TG groups. Their frustration at TG issues are no longer important since they now view themselves as women.

The mindset and lifestyle of CDs and TSs really are different hence often opposing agendas. The only real common denominator is the desire for a tolerant society.

[Raquel June]

But the tricky part is that not everyone is in the same place along the continuum and the agendas aren't the same. So why should the goals be the same? What's wrong with a CD spending an enjoyable evening out wearing a fabulous outfit and enjoying herself? If she is not doing anything to impede the TS from doing what she needs to do, what's the harm?

The person who said this may be happier if she was a tad more tolerant of the differences among members of the community.

When did I say our goals should be the same? We should all have the goal of confidence, of being ourselves, and of self-respect. Do you disagree with that? I never said CDs should have the same agenda as TS people, though.




Absolutely CDs and TSs usually have different agendas. Anyone who has been involved in the TG scene for decades knows there has been a historical conflict between TSs and CDs.

In particular TSs have complained about the motives and behaviors of CDs for example to name but a few -


CDs are in denial, they all really want to transition but are too scared to be themselves
CDs need to be honest and come out of the closet and become TG activists
CDs should be full blown feminists and support all forms of female activism and women issues
CDs dress sense and sexuality mocks real women and discredits all TGs


I hear those complaints all the time, but it's always coming from a CD. I've never heard a TS actually say any of those things.

Along the lines of the 4th point, I've heard stuck-up TSs accuse other TSs of basically being too sloppy and making them look bad, but most crossdressers are in the closet anyway, so who cares how good or bad they're dressed? There are plenty crossdressers I've run into at clubs who I thought made me look bad, but it was because of how they were behaving, not what they were wearing.

Seriously, did you actually just say "TSs complain that CDs should be full blown feminists and support all forms of female activism and women issues"? I guarantee nobody has said that in the history of the world. Do you see feminists asking for activism coming from CDs? No. The only complaint from feminists (and some TSs) are that drag queens and crossdressers mock femininity because they reduce a woman to just some clothes and makeup. This is not their "dress sense," but the whole concept that being girly just means putting on some panties. That is certainly not something that I complained about in this thread. Besides, most crossdressers aren't flaunting it and making a mockery out of it -- although I've seen some drag shows that really did offend me from a female perspective.

If you use the search function you can easily find a picture or two of me that "mocks real women and discredits all TGs" -- hell, discredits all humanity. I'm usually a mess. And I'm not that big a complainer! I'm not even complaining that you said "real women"!



In my experience these fustrations come from TSs in the throws of transition when they have no choice but to come out of the closet themselves and fully expose themselves to everything society may wish to hold against them. They may lose family and friends and their lives will take a dramatic new course. It is all a very serious consuming effort on their part not least their financial and love lives many take a serious hit.

Well, you're right about there being a lot of frustrations surrounding transition. I suppose there could be some leveled at CDs for being able to take off the wig and go back to being all manly at work. But for me there is much greater frustration seeing normal guys, thinking, "Why couldn't I just be OK with the body I had?" and outright jealousy towards women for the most basic parts of femininity that I don't have. Forget about my problems with my voice. I'll never have any figure to speak of and I'll never carry a child. Mother's Day card? Not gonna happen. There are a lot of wonderful and powerful emotions that come with estrogen, but I could do without the biological clock and the occasional catty resentment.



In contrast the closeted, fantasy-driven, fun-orientated, part-time dressing of CDs may seem too comfortable, cowardly and aimless in comparison.

Hey, being TS is fun, dammit! :battingeyelashes: I'm just as happy about eyeshadow and pretty panties as any CD! But a lot of people have lost marriages and friends over crossdressing, so you can't make it all out to be just a giggly part-time fun-fest with no consequences.



Ironically though after transition has been completed many TSs go into "stealth" meaning they burn their bridges and history of their male lives and begin life anew with a new identity. This means they also break off all contact with TG groups. Their frustration at TG issues are no longer important since they now view themselves as women.

This is something I have actually complained about. I've gone off on people in support groups more than once for having the attitude, "As soon as I get FFS and I'm all hot, I'm done with you losers." But honestly it's not all that common a thing, and I don't expect a stealth trans woman to be advertising on her forehead begging for acceptance for the uglier ones like me.

[Katesback]

I might be a bit different from the average post op trans girl but I accept all people for what they are. You tell me you are a zebra I am game. You tell me you are a CD I am game. I personally could care less.

On the other hand I do have issues with people that are unhappy and complain about thier lives but do nothing to be happy.

So if someone is a CD and in the closet, its cool with me but if they start telling me how terrible it feels to hide I will be the first to encourage them to do whatever it takes to be happy. If they start throwing excuses at me I give up and move on. Cant save everone LOL.

Katie

[Loni]

i do not hate my self, i am just me and that is all i can be.

right now i have a lot of self doubt..but not due to cross dressing. just going through a very tough time right now, things are falling apart at the seams for me. lost all my money, property and investments, so it is mostly just a trivial money thing...
but i do have a couple medical problems, but i just need to bounce over it and all will be good to go.

the sun will rise in the am, and it will be a good day.

.

[tashaly]

ReineD captured my conflicts on all four points, and especially the follow-up comment. If more people thought like her, the world would be a much better place.

And thanks, Raquel, for starting this thread! I have to say, it's made me think about my views on feminism--I'd like to think of my self as pro-women, but it does seem a little unfair to embrace the persona of a woman without having to suffer all of the disadvantages, since I can go back to guy mode and make more money, not have to bear children, etc. I can see why the committed full-timers have a problem with us part-timers.

I guess the sense is that if you don't love yourself (as a CD/TG), how can you love others? If male adolescence is about rejecting one's femininity, is cross-dressing about rejecting one's masculinity? Is a less than 100% commitment to one gender the same as a rejection? Because I like a lot about being a guy, and I'm confused as to whether it's possible to have it both ways. And I'm definitely not ready yet to handle the consequences of hashing this out on public. (Which is why a forum like this is so great. Thanks, everyone.)

[Tyler_D]

That question needs to be turned around, why do some of us hates our inner male side and escape in a female wannabe alter ego ?

The hatred doesnt come from the crossdressing, its a reaction from something we hate.

[sissystephanie]

Since I don't know most of the crossdressers on this Forum, I cannot really say that they hate themselves. And I would hazard the guess that not many of the rest of you can do so either! You might infer that thought because of what they write, but that thought has no real value. It is just a thought! You have to really know a person to make that sort of supposition!!

I have been a CD longer than most of you have even been around! And in that time period. about 70 years, I have never once hated myself. Hated the way I looked at times, and hated some outfits I put on!! But NEVER hated myself. Why, you might ask!! What is there to hate? Because I am a CD? I chose to live that life, not someone else! Because I have some feminine tendencies? I did not make my body, two other people did!! And I sure don't hate them!!

Some crossdressers do have problems, there is no doubt of that. But I don't think that hatred of themselves is a strong one in many CD's! At least I hope not!!

[Rianna Humble]

it does seem a little unfair to embrace the persona of a woman without having to suffer all of the disadvantages, since I can go back to guy mode and make more money, not have to bear children, etc. I can see why the committed full-timers have a problem with us part-timers.

Part-time CD or full-time CD, you are still transgender. Speaking as a committed (soon to be) full-timer, I can see no reason to have a problem with someone who is TG all the time but only dresses part of the time. You didn't choose to be who you are any more than you chose how many toes you would have on each foot when you were born.

The title of this website is crossdressers.com not crossdressers-but-only-if-you-are-or-want-to-be-full-time.com


I guess the sense is that if you don't love yourself (as a CD/TG), how can you love others? If male adolescence is about rejecting one's femininity, is cross-dressing about rejecting one's masculinity? Is a less than 100% commitment to one gender the same as a rejection? Because I like a lot about being a guy, and I'm confused as to whether it's possible to have it both ways.

IMNSHO, cross-dressing is not about rejecting anything, it is about embracing the fact that you are transgender and accepting yourself. If I'm right, for an MtF that means accepting that you also have a feminine side and for an FtM that you also have a masculine side.

As far as I can see there is nothing wrong with wanting to express both sides of your personality.

[Cheryl James]

For my own mental health, I'll play along. I grew up, probably like a lot of us here, in the 50's and 60's. I can't remember not wanting to be a girl. But, in that period, who did? Jorgensen, certainly, but anybody else? I never met, knew, or heard of a transvestite, which is what we were called in those days. I didn't understand why I was the way I was. Times are radically different today. I have always liked myself, but never understood why I had these needs and desires.

It seems to me that human nature leads us into wanting a love relationship with someone, be they male or female, heterosexual, bisexual, or homosexual. This planet gives us one ride, only. I lost two relationships over this issue, so when a third woman appeared, I made a conscious decision to not tell her. She didn't ask, either. Nor did I ask her if she was manic depressive. Guess what, we both got a surprise. But, we did raise two great kids and I got to be a father (and I am not referring to the sexual process here).

So, do I hate myself? No. Do I hate my wife because she cannot accept this in me? No. It is what it is for both of us. Do I have regrets? Sure. Would I like a do over on some things? Sure. But, like many people, I have tried to get by as best I could with the hand I was dealt. If that doesn't fit into the way other people think about crossdressers as a group, so be it.

[Satrana]

If male adolescence is about rejecting one's femininity, is cross-dressing about rejecting one's masculinity?

That sounds like a plot line from Sex in the City:)

I think few CDs reject masculinity - that is something which a TS is likely to do. Rather CDs end up rejecting the machismo in masculinity, the part which describes anything feminine as weak and contemptible and which makes us feel shame and guilt. Once that is achieved then the door is open to find a happy balance between the two gender roles.

The problem though is the closeted lifestyle means many people cannot or will not combine their masculine and feminine selves together. I think this results in the idea that these are two separate identities which conflict with each other.

[Dana]

Am I'm a TS?

No!

Am I bisexual?

No!

Am I homosexual?

No!

Am I transgendered? A more complete definition of the terms needs to defined.

Am I cross dresser?

Yes ~ I'm part male and part female!

[diannecourtney]

I am fully in femme for the neext several hours, I am going to do my girlie duties to please the ex-wife, I do this with complete pleasure and after that
some yard work. Neither of which is hateful.:):):)

Great thoughts, I can't imagine hate in the CD, I am fully attired and plan to carry out some girlie duties for my Ex who did hate the CD but she is now free and this CDer is enjoyinglife but still likes doing the girlie things. Oh in an hour or two everything but the beautiful bust line shall be changed to do yard work. Never leave home without it.

[ReineD]

When did I say our goals should be the same? We should all have the goal of confidence, of being ourselves, and of self-respect. Do you disagree with that? I never said CDs should have the same agenda as TS people, though.

Raquel, just to set the record straight, I wasn't commenting on anything you said. My comments address post #79 immediately above mine, first paragraph in bold quoting a prior post. :hugs:

Yes, I agree that everyone should have self-confidence and self-respect. But I do know from personal experience that this isn't just something that can be ordered off the menu. lol. It can take some people years to reach this point, depending on more variables that I can list in this post. So I am mindful of people being at different points along their journey of self-actualization.

[Lucy_Bella]

A well thought out and intelect thread, however it would be considered IMO comparing apples to oranges. You suggested at one time you to thought of yourself as a crossdresser fine however you soon realized you where more than a crossdresser..
I can't speak for everyone who only crossdresses and I am not trying to beat your thread down either. I am only and will always only be a crossdresser I think some of who you speak of want to raise the gender spectrum or experiment not me. I enjoy my private life and no desires to become public for many reasons.

You may be happy now in your shoes but it's not right to shake you finger at those who are not. It took you time to come to terms with yourself and there is no need to take that from anyone else. Although I agree with most of your thread you must understand we are all different and our Gender scale varies.

[Raquel June]

I guess the sense is that if you don't love yourself (as a CD/TG), how can you love others? If male adolescence is about rejecting one's femininity, is cross-dressing about rejecting one's masculinity? Is a less than 100% commitment to one gender the same as a rejection? Because I like a lot about being a guy, and I'm confused as to whether it's possible to have it both ways. And I'm definitely not ready yet to handle the consequences of hashing this out on public. (Which is why a forum like this is so great. Thanks, everyone.)

Seems pretty enlightened for someone with 7 posts!



Yes, I agree that everyone should have self-confidence and self-respect. But I do know from personal experience that this isn't just something that can be ordered off the menu. lol. It can take some people years to reach this point, depending on more variables that I can list in this post. So I am mindful of people being at different points along their journey of self-actualization.

I know. That was my point. I see so many people complaining about issues constantly that are either secondary to or caused by their lack of self-understanding, self-confidence, self-respect, whatever. It's something that we all share, no matter if we're a CD, a TS, or a supporter/friend. And the degree to which I used to worry about things, feel bad, try to justify things, and be depressed when it all stemmed from me hating myself...

I'm still a huge wimp, but just getting to the point where I'm comfortable being an androgynous person with nail polish and makeup and mostly femme clothes without being totally freaked out about who's looking at me is a long way from where I was a year ago when I started going out in non-gay-bar environments with a little eyeshadow on.

Again, I'm not saying CDs need to go out in public, but I've seen many who do need the self-confidence to stand up for themselves and their right to be a little weird in private without being seen as a freak. OTOH, there are a few major posters of whom I have a strong suspicion that their wives need to stand up for themselves and keep the whole crossdressing thing from dominating all their spouse's free time and taking away form the family.



You may be happy now in your shoes but it's not right to shake you finger at those who are not. It took you time to come to terms with yourself and there is no need to take that from anyone else. Although I agree with most of your thread you must understand we are all different and our Gender scale varies.

I'm not shaking my finger at anybody except those who bitch and moan about others, about their wives, and about society when their real problem is with themselves.

[GBNatarii]

First off, OP: Way to sneak in a shot at conservatives there. (And me! Yays!) Thanks for complaining about CD'ers and TSs complaining about how evil the world is, only to, magically, in one sentence, BE exactly the thing you are complaining about.

Second, gemsay23's first post (I am too frustrated to read the whole thread just now), pretty much hit it dead on the nail in describing me. I do get highly turned on by CD'ing. It's exciting, it's different, and to me, it comes off as "Finally, I can be a girl, so I should be allowed to have sex as a girl." Don't like that thought? CD'ing is sacred and shouldn't be tainted by that? Psh, that makes one just as bad as the religious zealots I've noticed most people on here complaining about.

I've also noticed that most of the hate coming from CD'ers concerning CD'ing, is only indirectly hitting themselves. They're... WE are pissed that some times, no matter how hard we work, and how much money we spend, we just simply can't look enough like a female to really pass in public. Hair is too messed up, can't shave enough off, bones are crazy, beer gut, thick legs, and of course, a GIANT MASSIVE PENIS does get in the way. And yes, a penis of only 3 inches when hard, 1 inch when soft, is still a quite bigger bump down there than most women have.

I also really liked the analogy of a black man dating a blind woman. That one was great. I've personally yet to meet a single black guy who is NOT ashamed of being black. Yeah, yeah, they had Malcolm X (One of the greatest people to have ever lived, IMO), Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and a host of other activists really push hard against the grain to get black rights, but still, to this day FORTY YEARS, after King's assassination, I bump into black people who wish they weren't black, and do everything to hide it, while still declaring "Black Powerz!" Psh... That just makes me laugh.

To me, women are the same. Personally, I'm really hoping to transition fully into a female body, but you'll never, EVER see me advocating women's rights. I just won't. I've no reason to, in my mind. Between the fact that real women (And by real, I don't mean GGs, I mean, stable headed) are making progress... Hell, faster than virtually all other demographics, and the crazies out there who want to kill all men, it's pretty hard for me to even consider joining in.

Oh boy... I guess I can make a second post later, and spend the rest of this one talking about how I apply to the question...

I never hated myself for dressing up. I didn't hate society either. I did hate how I looked, until a guy I really liked told me that I did look good, no matter what I thought. That helped a lot. I then was only slightly mad, until I was able to get FAR and away more realistic outfits, and my mother said I looked good.

Honestly, I just can't believe the crap that got thrown so easily in this thread that I can't even begin to answer the question. And I still haven't even read the second page...

[Raquel June]

First off, OP: Way to sneak in a shot at conservatives there. (And me! Yays!) Thanks for complaining about CD'ers and TSs complaining about how evil the world is, only to, magically, in one sentence, BE exactly the thing you are complaining about.

I live in the John McCain state. I have a gun permit. I used to be a Baptist with a mullet and a goatee. I'm about as conservative as a Libertarian atheist tranny lesbian who hates politics and hangs out in gay bars can be. OK, so I'm probably not what you would consider conservative at all, but I didn't realize I was taking a shot at anybody. My post was pretty F-ing far from being political, so you need to turn off Fox News and look in the mirror and think really hard about what made you think it was.

I can appreciate sarcastic douche-bag comments as much as anyone, but how am I supposed to know what a clever genius you are (which obviously you think you are) if you give no frame of reference for said comments? What exactly is this thing I'm complaining about which I am now being?



Second, gemsay23's first post (I am too frustrated to read the whole thread just now), pretty much hit it dead on the nail in describing me. I do get highly turned on by CD'ing. It's exciting, it's different, and to me, it comes off as "Finally, I can be a girl, so I should be allowed to have sex as a girl." Don't like that thought? CD'ing is sacred and shouldn't be tainted by that? Psh, that makes one just as bad as the religious zealots I've noticed most people on here complaining about.

WTF? How did you get into the private TS section if you're a CD who gets turned on by wearing panties?



I also really liked the analogy of a black man dating a blind woman. That one was great. I've personally yet to meet a single black guy who is NOT ashamed of being black.

Looking back, it was a fairly bizarre analogy on my part, but regardless, I'm beginning to get a clearer picture of exactly who you are -- a proud conservative who thinks I was attacking you and other conservatives, and who thinks all black guys are ashamed of being black.

I know some people who do good custom work if you're looking for a pink Klan outfit.



To me, women are the same. Personally, I'm really hoping to transition fully into a female body, but you'll never, EVER see me advocating women's rights. I just won't. I've no reason to, in my mind. Between the fact that real women (And by real, I don't mean GGs, I mean, stable headed) are making progress... Hell, faster than virtually all other demographics, and the crazies out there who want to kill all men, it's pretty hard for me to even consider joining in.

Dear Jesus! I'm no feminist, but come on. You sound like a member of Promise Keepers who listens to Rush Limbaugh every day. Those are the only type of people who live in fear of the angry feminist masses who want to kill all men. You sound more self-loathing than anybody I was talking about in this thread.

You have an obvious disdain for women, but you're turned on by the idea of being one. That's sick.

Seriously, you could've gotten away with some people thinking you were sane if you didn't bring up people wanting to kill all men.



Honestly, I just can't believe the crap that got thrown so easily in this thread that I can't even begin to answer the question. And I still haven't even read the second page...

Ahh, sweet irony.

[GBNatarii]

I live in the John McCain state. I have a gun permit. I used to be a Baptist with a mullet and a goatee. I'm about as conservative as a Libertarian atheist tranny lesbian who hates politics and hangs out in gay bars can be. OK, so I'm probably not what you would consider conservative at all, but I didn't realize I was taking a shot at anybody. My post was pretty F-ing far from being political, so you need to turn off Fox News and look in the mirror and think really hard about what made you think it was.

Oddly enough, I've never watched Fox News. I don't have cable. So I'm stuck with the channel 2 Fox on antenna... Which comes off as way to liberal for me.


I can appreciate sarcastic douche-bag comments as much as anyone, but how am I supposed to know what a clever genius you are (which obviously you think you are) if you give no frame of reference for said comments? What exactly is this thing I'm complaining about which I am now being?

Complainers.


WTF? How did you get into the private TS section if you're a CD who gets turned on by wearing panties?

So let me get this straight. I want to transition into a female as much as possible, and so far, I know for a fact I'll be doing at least hormones (still debating all the surgeries, what with them being expensive and all), but by god, if at any point in my transitional life, I get a hard on while wearing female clothes, I should be expelled from the whole community? Wow...


Looking back, it was a fairly bizarre analogy on my part, but regardless, I'm beginning to get a clearer picture of exactly who you are -- a proud conservative who thinks I was attacking you and other conservatives, and who thinks all black guys are ashamed of being black.

Eh, you're fairly accurate. Not completely, but close enough, I suppose.


I know some people who do good custom work if you're looking for a pink Klan outfit.

I know! Right?! It'll be so cute when I go hang out with all my black and Jew friends.

No, really, those are the only people who'll hang out with me, and who I'll tolerate anymore.


Dear Jesus! I'm no feminist, but come on. You sound like a member of Promise Keepers who listens to Rush Limbaugh every day. Those are the only type of people who live in fear of the angry feminist masses who want to kill all men. You sound more self-loathing than anybody I was talking about in this thread.

I've never listened to Rush either. From what I hear, from the conservative point of view... He's a bloody moron making conservatives look bad.


You have an obvious disdain for women, but you're turned on by the idea of being one. That's sick.

And now CD'ers, TSs, TGs, etc, because clearly... You can't have a conservative TS here! It's blasphemy!


My first point is in the form of a question since I don't know the answer. Would the CDs who first start out with it being rather sexual believe it to be a private thing, as any other sexual practice, and then wouldn't it continue to be private as a matter of habit? For some CDs it is more sexual than a matter of gender ID. Also, don't the urges to CD ebb and flow naturally for many people, rather than being a consistent need as it is for a TS?

It started out sexual and insanely private, for obvious reasons. Over the past two years, it's become far and away more of a just not feeling right with the body parts that I've got kinda thing, and slowly becoming more public. The urges to CD have become far more common now that my family knows and have pretty much stated that it's okay for me to dress up around the house.


Second, I've wondered if a CD is on the fence with this, meaning she doesn't identify fully as a woman and still values her guy side, does she recognize that giving in to the euphoric urges that CDing often produces would cause her to make decisions she might regret later? I do wonder if some CDs feel safer being in a marriage with a 'don't ask don't tell' policy for this very reason. It's like having a built-in system of checks and balances.

Every day I identify more and more as a woman, but I'm scared of giving up my guy side. I've already had a guy try to rape me once, and if I didn't have my strong male-ness at the time, I wouldn't have been able to dislocate his shoulder. It has created situations that I've regretted later, such as telling my liberal friends. I started with them, since I was under the impression they'd be the most accepting, but none of them want to talk to me any more. One called me a tranny fag, and another called me a sissy fag. The one who called me sissy was the one who tried to rape me.


And I must say, this thread has been a massive wake up call for me. In some of the other threads I've made/posted in, there always seemed to be some random person F'ing with me, and I just thought, eh, it's just some jerk being a jerk. But wow, it's being made clear to me that most people don't even want me on the site any where at all.

[Fab Karen]

... such as telling my liberal friends. I started with them, since I was under the impression they'd be the most accepting, but none of them want to talk to me any more. One called me a tranny fag, and another called me a sissy fag. The one who called me sissy was the one who tried to rape me.

True liberals would not react that way. It's either a made-up story, or you're calling people liberals who we liberals WOULDN'T.
You want to be a woman yet you don't believe in women's rights- definitely sounds like self-loathing.

[GBNatarii]

True liberals would not react that way. It's either a made-up story, or you're calling people liberals who we liberals WOULDN'T.
You want to be a woman yet you don't believe in women's rights- definitely sounds like self-loathing.

I do believe in women's rights. I just don't see any reason for me personally to fight for them, when, as I said, women are gaining ground on that front faster than any other demographic group, and the extreme radicals just make the group look bad. In other words, women are perfectly fine without my help. I'd still pick up my gun and defend women's rights to have a job, own a business, have kids whenever, have abortions, etc., when push comes to shove, and I will always defend those rights when necessary. I just don't feel the need to actively support them right now.

[Audrey34]

When I was younger yes, I hated myself. I was so ashamed of what I was doing and yet some driving force kept bringing back to that big box of my sisters old clothes in the attic. I grew up with a double whammy. My closeted cross dressing and my love for "damsel in distress" bondage. I honestly had this fear that I was going to become Norman Bates, dressing in my mom's clothing and killing women who happened to be nearby.

It took a loooong time and the help of my therapist and eventually the love of several special ladies who modeled for me to help me see that I had nothing to be ashamed of. I've even ventured out into the public (even though I was with a large group) to do some shopping and of course I attend my Tri-Ess meetings. But I'm still not ready to "fly solo". I may never be ready to do that. But I can honestly say I'm not ashamed. And I would never withhold my dressing or my bondage fetish from any potential mate. She will know everything about me when things get serious.

But for now I have to stay somewhat closeted. Because of my job, my siblings and the crappy neighborhood I live in. I could never leave my apartment building or come back fully dressed. Not unless I kept a Smith And Wesson in my purse.
-Audrey

[SusanCACD]

I think someday I will have to read this whole thread, until then, yea, i hate myself....

[NathalieX66]

I think someday I will have to read this whole thread, until then, yea, i hate myself....

I think I hate myself for coming in here already. :bonk:


(sorry, no offense to anyone here.)

[sometimes_miss]

I have to answer the question, do I love myself? Yes. Yes, I do. I would love to find someone like me, to share life with. But I don't think I will ever find her. Next, not all of us ever 'fully identify ourselves as women'. We're, just, well, we're just 'us'. I don't really have a guy side and a girl side; I only have a 'me' side, and despite my having to act the part of a regular guy when in public, my real feelings are always there. Yes, I may hide my overly compassionate side to avoid being taken advantage of. I may hold back my tears when I'm happy or sad. And of course, I never dare ask a woman to 'please just hold me for a while', because it's simply not something women are comfortable with hearing from a guy.
Why you may ask, don't I openly 'join the fight' for TG rights and recognition? Simple. I'm already exhausted. Just getting through a day takes all I have, because dealing with the sadness of being alone so much takes a lot out of me. When I was younger, I didn't realize why I was so tired all the time. Now, I know.

[Schatten Lupus]

Don't live your life with excuses. Don't tell yourself you can't be yourself because of other people. I see all the time people making themselves miserable for the sake of relationships that are probably doomed to begin with. And I'll bet a lot of these people are in relationships that would make them miserable and fall apart even if there weren't any gender issues involved. Everybody has issues with their parents expectations, and often feels like they're living their life to satisfy others, even non-crossdressers! And if anybody wants to be happy they have to say screw everybody else's expectations, I'm going to be me.
This is a very good post.

[LisaTaylor]

Hmm. I don't hate myself for being CD/TG, but it does add a lot of stress in my life. I'm not a "man-size" man (which helps the CD thing), but I've always grit my teeth thinking, "If I had to be girl-sized, why the hell couldn't I have been born a girl?"

For me, the real challenge (apart from creating a believable female presentation) is getting over the feeling that I'm doing something "wrong". There was no internet when I was growing up, and dressing up as/wanting to be a woman if you were a man was considered for freaks only, and a probable cause to have yourself committed to a mental institution.

It seems like it's not that bad these days (and perhaps it never really was). Still, it's hard sometimes.

[Nigella]

This thread is done, it has gone off topic and political which is not permitted.